Subject: B Nomic - Joining the market

From: "Orc In A Spacesuit" <orcinaspacesuit@h...>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:32:51 -0500

I'm sending this to the ThermodyNomic mailing list as well, and hoping it 
doesn't bounce. I'm doing this so the Thermo players can get an idea of 
what they might be trading for (see the list below), and also to make sure 
Craig gets this, as I'm not sure if he's subscribed to the B Nomic business 
list.

For the Thermo players, a quick note on Delimiters:
'{{' and '}}' are used to delimit text, whether the body of an entire 
proposal or a subsection of that proposal.
'[[' and ']]' are used for comment text.
The rest isn't that important.

This proposal is something to get us started with Nomic Market; it depends 
on the suggestions I made earlier regarding the Market rules being 
implemented, as well as an additional change: Just as a Nomic can join 
Nomic Market, it should be able to leave. Of course, any Nomic can just 
ignore Nomic Market, but it'd be easier this way. In any case, I'm writing 
contingencies into this in case the Nomic Market ruleset every goes nutty.

I propose the following:
{{__Free Trade v1.0__
Create the following rule:
{{__Going to Market__{*Market, InterNomic*}
A. Definitions
An entity who is a player in any Nomic, and is At the Market, may be 
referred to as a "Trader" in B Nomic. In addition, a "B Nomic Trader" ia a 
Trader who's Home Nomic in Nomic Market is B Nomic.

B. Opening and Closing Shop
B Nomic may be either "Open for Business" or "Closed for Business".

When B Nomic becomes Open for Business, B Nomic shall ask the Administrator 
of Nomic Market to add B Nomic to Nomic Market's List, if it is not already 
on it.

When B Nomic becomes Closed for Business, B Nomic shall ask the 
Administrator of Nomic Market to remove B Nomic from Nomic Market's List, if 
it is on it.

No B Nomic Trader may give or receive any object in Nomic Market while B 
Nomic is Closed for Business. If such does occur, the effects in B Nomic of 
that happening do not occur. This paragraph takes precedence over the rest 
of this rule, and over all other rules.

When an SOE is declared, B Nomic becomes Closed for Business.

C. Player Joining
If B Nomic is Open for Business, any player in B Nomic who is Off Leave may 
become At the Market in Nomic Market, subject to the rules of Nomic Market.

D. Trade Control
There exists a List of Exportable Goods, or LEG, as a part of the B Nomic 
gamestate. It is a list of objects that B Nomic Traders may give to 
Traders, subject to the rules of Nomic Market and the rules of the Home 
Nomic of the receiving Trader. B Nomic Traders may not give objects to 
Traders if those objects are not on the LEG, and/or are not in eir 
possession. When a B Nomic Trader gives an object to a Trader, it is 
destroyed in B Nomic.

There exists a Table of Importable Goods, or TIG, as a part of the B Nomic 
gamestate. It is a list of objects that Traders may give to B Nomic 
Traders, and a list of events that happen upon that object being given to a 
B Nomic Trader. Objects not on the TIG may not be given to B Nomic Players.

If an object not on the TIG is given to a B Nomic Trader, then the effects 
that occur are: "The object is turned into FNURD, has its Contents set to 
the name and any other properties it may have had prior to becoming a FNURD, 
and loses all other properties it may have. It is placed in the possession 
of the receiving B Nomic Trader." FNURDS are passable carryable objects, 
and have the property "Contents". [[Bascially, should you somehow aquire a 
non-allowed item, it'll get turned into junk, the the data about it is saved 
in case the junk ever becomes valuable.]]
}}
[[End rule __Going to Market__]]

Set the LEG to the following:
{{
Beverage
Sledge-O-Matic
Ball of Wax
Ball of Earwax
Towel
Big Stick
Pinball Gun
Small Lump of Scrap Metal
Large Lump of Scrap Metal
Gnome
Bread
Olive
Beer Can
Ice Cube
Ice Sphere
Boomcage
Can of Whoopass
Hand
Barney
Insta-Rule
}}
[[End LEG]]

[[I'd love to see what other Nomics might do with a Hand or an Insta-Rule, 
or see someone somehow possess and then trade off Barney.]]

Set the TIG to the following:
{{
Object Events
Coin The Coin loses all properties it may have. It then becomes a 
passable carrable object, and is placed in the receiving player's 
possession.
}}
[[End TIG]]
[[I don't know what else might be out there, in Thermodynomic or elsewhere. 
And we don't want to let things in here uncontrolled. And we'll let 
everything else in on a case-by-case basis. Everything else is FNURD until 
then.]]

B Nomic becomes Open for Business.

}}
[[End prop __Free Trade v1.0__]]

This is very open to revision. Comments, questions, rotten fruit?

Orc in a Spacesuit

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---

From: "Craig Daniel" <ragnarok@p...>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:24:45 -0000

> doesn't bounce. I'm doing this so the Thermo players can get an 
idea of 

You're just in time. I only recently set it to allow non-member 
postings, and only then so that the dice server could send us stuff.

> Craig gets this, as I'm not sure if he's subscribed to the B Nomic 
business 

I'm not; only the discussion list for the purposes of setting up 
trading. Thank you.

> contingencies into this in case the Nomic Market ruleset every goes 
nutty.

Of course. We need to incorporate that bit. Of course, with nobody 
able to be at the Market right now, any change needs 2/3 of 0 or ZERO 
people's approval.

> or see someone somehow possess and then trade off Barney.]]

That will be interesting. Of course, part of the fun part about the 
Nomic Market will be dealing with the influx of bizarre comodities 
that we can't yet use.

> everything else in on a case-by-case basis. Everything else is 
FNURD until 

So far, I don't have any idea what other Nomics might join. Iff my 
Eco Nomic Stimulus Package proposal passes (I think it will, and if 
so on the 29th) then we only have Coins and Offices, which we 
wouldn't want to trade away as then the jobs wouldn't get done. 
Otherwise, instead of Coins we have Points and Kudoses.

> B Nomic becomes Open for Business.

Yippee!

> This is very open to revision. Comments, questions, rotten fruit?

I'll sell you some, when and if Thermo creates any.

---

From: Doctor Ducker <drduck@u...>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:21:21 -0700

> postings, and only then so that the dice server could send us stuff.

And I'm still not sure it works right.

> able to be at the Market right now, any change needs 2/3 of 0 or ZERO

In my opinion we should probably use a ruleset which is very close to Suber's. That way we can
get things like CFJs, etc. pre-built, but we should do away with any "winning" concepts, at
least in the initial ruleset.

I also think that the overall structure should be something like this:

With regard to any given Nomic (called the Trader here) and it's interface to the Nomic Market
(called the Market), there are four bodies of rules:
1) The overall ruleset for the Trader
2) The specific sub-set of the Trader's ruleset which relate to interfacing with the Market,
known as the Trader Port Rules
3) The overall ruleset of the Market
4) The specific sub-set of the Market's ruleset which relate to interfacing with the Trader,
known as the Market Port Rules

So, if both B Nomic, and Thermo were to become part of the Market, then the Market would contain
A general set of rules, and two sets of Market Port Rules, one for B, and one for Thermo.

Setting things up so that some sort of basic quorum (sp?) is required for a general rule change
would be a good idea; Something like at least one player from all participating Nomics must
cast a vote on the proposed rule change, for it to be able to take effect.

Rule changes to a given Trader's Market Port Rules should be difficult (if not impossible) for
other Traders to affect, but relatively easy for the Trader in question to do so.

The general rules should cover the actual "exchange rate" concepts, as well as the major
procedural rules. The Port Rules should handle the translation of tradable goods from the
concepts of the Trader Nomic, into the Market Nomic, as well as covering the procedures for
altering the Port Rules.

It also seems like it would be a good idea to do something whereby the more trading goes on from
a given Trader, the more valuable that Trader's goods become.

> Otherwise, instead of Coins we have Points and Kudoses.

Actually we also have Proposals, though I have no idea what good they'd be. ;)

---

From: Ian Kelly <kellyia@e...>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:39:18 -0500

>Actually we also have Proposals, though I have no idea what good they'd 

And Offices. That could be interesting.

Ian

---

From: "Craig" <ragnarok@p...>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:51:14 -0400

>And Offices. That could be interesting.

Hmm... Do we really want to trust non-players to do our administration
first? Wouldn't it cause problems, resulting in general dislike of whoever
traded it away?

Actually, come to think of it, the office would be destroyed here - but the
rules still say it would exist. So what happens?