Subject: Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Thermo] (unknown)

From: "Orc In A Spacesuit" <orcinaspacesuit@h...>
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 21:12:06 -0500

>From: Doctor Ducker <drduck@u...>
>A lot of this is what I was thinking the Home Nomic sections of the Market 
>Nomic's ruleset were for, and why I thought that each individual Nomic 
>needed a set of rules for "prepping" eir things for introduction into the 
>Market.
>
>Let me give an example sequence:
>
>1) I declare that I'm going to market.
>2) The Thermo ruleset, says that all my Thermo::Player possessions then 
>enter a state known as
>"At the Market". [These rules need to be defined]
>3) The Thermo specific sub-ruleset of the Market examines my 
>Thermo::Player's possessions, and establishes appropriate objects in the 
>possession of my Market::Trader self. [These rules also
>need to be defined]
>4) My Market:Trader self trades a Coin for, say, 1,000 BNS.
>5) I declare that I'm leaving the Market.
>6) The Thermo ruleset examines my Market::Trader's possessions, compares 
>that with what my
>Thermo::Player "At the Market" possesions are, and then creates and 
>destroys things within Thermo as appropriate. [More rules needing to be 
>defined]
>
>The equivalent set of actions could happen for a B Nomic Player.
>
>Essentially both games (a home Nomic, and the Market) need some sort of 
>synchronization rules.
>You're message passing somewhat does this, but it isn't going to function 
>very well between our two Nomics at present, as, as far as I understand 
>things, none of B's objects can exist within Thermo, and what few object 
>types Thermo has might not be creatable within B (I don't know for sure), 
>thus no reason to trade. Thus what we need is a medium for exchange, the 
>problem as I see it is figuring this out.

I think that we're envisioning the Market in two very different ways. 
You're seeing it as a place that people can sent their items off to removing 
them from their home game for a bit, then come back with a different set. I 
see it as a connection point, and once a connection is made from both sides, 
each Nomic instantly destroys/creates. But until the actual giving takes 
place, the item fully exists and functions in its home Nomic.

As for compatability, in Thermo you could set your rules up to be something 
like this:

When someone tries to give a Thing away, Thermo sends an event, with the 
object having the Class of what the Thing is in Thermo (Coin, Kudo, Rule, 
etc), and a Text if it its a rule or proposal. And a Description if it's a 
Hot Potato. Should the transaction complete, that Thing is then destroyed 
in Thermo.

The very simplist way to receive _any_ object would be to simply, upon 
transaction completion, ignore any of the specifics of the object as sent 
from the Market, and simply create a Coin in the receiver's possession.

>From that base, you could expand, saying that the receiver gets a Coin, 
unless the Class of the object sent from the Market is a Kudo, in which case 
a Kudu is created in eir possession instead. And any other properties sent 
by the Market, such as Color of the Kudo, can be simply ignored. This 
example is assuming that Kudos still are a part of the Thermo rules.

You can keep expanding, making a provision where received Hot Potatoes 
result in Hot Potatoes being created in the receiver's possession, with any 
Description sent by the Market. And the do same for Rules and Proposals.

To keep expanding on this, you could change the rule that says "Rules, 
players, proposals, offices, coins, and The Bank are things." Change it up 
completly, so that you don't have to list every possibility, and instead 
have Things come into existance as specified by the ruleset without the 
list. Maybe require everything to have a Type (like Coin or Office or 
whatever), so everything still makes sense. That way, players could have 
anything, but would have to get rules that make those Things useful, 
otherwise they'll just be fluff.

Finally, you could have Things get the Properties and Attributes described 
in the Event from the Market.

A lot of stuff would be completly useless at first. But rules for specific 
items can be made, and rules for groups of items could be made. Maybe you 
could make a special subset of rules for anything with the Attribute "Grid 
Object", which most of the stuff from B will have.

Finally, another consideration for Thermo: I think it would be cool if the 
Conservation of Mass rule applied to trades, where you have to destroy 
something (either via trading something off, or otherwise) in order to 
receive something.

I'm considering submitting this as a Registration prop, as Craig suggested. 
But I'm not sure I will, you guys go ahead and see what you can do, don't 
wait on me.

Orc in a Spacesuit

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