Subject: Accusations fix

From: "Doctroid " <rsholmes@m...>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:39:29 -0000

May I request some comments on P94? I am perplexed to find GT and 
Xylen voting against it, especially since they voted for the nearly-
identical, retracted P93. 

- D

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From: Gallivanting Tripper <s3036845@s...>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:26:02 +1100

>identical, retracted P93.

Oops, that's right. Although I heartily agree with the Accusations
Cleanup, the first paragraph looked sufficiently recalcitrantly confusing
for me to vote AGAINST as a precaution...

[P94]
>Add a Rule, "Accusations 2.0", reading as follows:
>
>As soon as any outstanding Accusations (if any) at the time of this
>rule's Adoption are resolved, Rule 12 shall be repealed and the
>following Rule shall take effect.

Does that mean that a new Rule is enacted which does nothing but wait until
Accusations are completed, then delete rule 12 and enact yet another rule???

More importantly, does the Rule do it all by itself???

For this Nomic, every game action has to be explicitly done by some Player
or other - this is the whole point of the accusation cleanup. So I was
rather perplexed to see slef-modifying rules as part of the fix. Perhaps I
should re-propose to be polite.....

GT

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From: Xylen <mctupper@h...>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:51:31 -0600

>identical, retracted P93.

Actually I do support P94, and I am assuming that other Players
will as well. I'm going for Points on this one. <grin>

Xylen
-- 
Hardware: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

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From: Doctroid <rsholmes@m...>
Date: 06 Sep 2000 11:14:35 -0400

> Accusations are completed, then delete rule 12 and enact yet another rule???

More or less, although there would be only one new Rule -- not a Rule
that enacts another Rule. It's just that it doesn't go into effect
until all Accusations outstanding at the time of Adoption are
resolved.

There was, after all, an Accusation in effect at the time I posted
P94, and at the rate things are going, there's a pretty good chance
some Accusation or another will be in effect when and if P94 is
Adopted (of course, if enough people continue to place higher priority
on point-grabbing than on supporting an exepedicious proposal, we
won't have to worry about that, will we? ;-) ). And if the new
Accusations procedure went into effect while an Accusation was
outstanding, it'd create a mess because the new mechanism for
resolving an Accusation depends in some ways on its having been
initiated with the new mechanism; resolving an old-style Accusation
with strict adherence to the new-style procedure would not be
possible.

Of course, a gentlepersonly agreement to overlook such technicalities
would be possible... but gentlepersonliness is not always easy in the
midst of an Accusation.

> More importantly, does the Rule do it all by itself???

Um, well, perhaps it should have stated that any player could at that
point issue a repeal of Rule 12 and collect 3 points, or something.
Or perhaps it should simply have said that until that point Rule 12
takes precedence and after that point the new Rule takes precedence.
Rule 12 could then be repealed by a separate Proposal as usual. You
have a good point: I was thinking Rule 12 would be considered to
automatically disappear, but of course that would run counter to the
idea that all new rules and repeals be reflected by messages to RULES.

So, yes, in that respect it's recalcitrant.

An auxiliary, conditional Proposal could fix up this problem... but
with two votes AGAINST, things don't look promising.

- D