Subject: Re: [Socialnomic-AML] Accusation against Doctroid

From: rsholmes@m...
Date: 30 Aug 2000 09:53:40 -0400

Oh, for Christ's sake, Oloros. You go and illegally delete two
legal posts, it's called to your attention informally, and everyone
says, OK, let's just clean it up and move on. And then I overlook a
line causing points to be computed incorrectly and you sic the
Inquisition on me.

Let's save the Accusations for really intractible disputes and just
fix the small mistakes as they occur, shall we?

I'm willing to fix up the accounting if you're willing to withdraw the
Accusation and if the rest are willing to overlook any penalties for
either of us. If not, well, I'll just say the tone of this game is
getting a touch hostile.

- D

[And yes, I've made an Accusation for even less cause. And I regret
doing it that way. Did so even before this morning.]

---

From: "Doctroid " <rsholmes@m...>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:24:55 -0000

On closer examination I see Oloros's Accusation was posted on Monday. 
A side effect of the change in email address was that I didn't see it
until today.

So the sequence of events implied in my previous message was
incorrect, and the tone of that message for that reason was
inappropriate.

Nevertheless, I still feel an Accusation is best saved for more
serious situations, and that it would be best for all involved to
agree to fix this and any similar mistakes informally.

- D

---

From: Gallivanting Tripper <s3036845@s...>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:30:47 +0800

>agree to fix this and any similar mistakes informally.

Yes, like my double-take on points deductions in the last two 
Adoptions. But seriously, folks, TopHeavy's Admin Rewarded didn't 
take into account the creation of The House on TriField Hill which, 
by the way, I recommend that all who can afford Triangles take 
advantage of. I'll even make the first bet to show you all how it's 
done!

GT

---

From: "Oloros the Blue" <oloros@l...>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:37:27 -0000

> fix the small mistakes as they occur, shall we?
Sorry, I've been caught in the work grind for a couple of days, so am 
just now getting a chance to respond to this . . .

Um, yeah. From my point of view the two are very different problems. 
And the history of Accusations has been more towards points-mongering 
than fixing real problems. I don't see much wrong with that, in some 
ways it should let us all take the Accusations a little less 
seriously, so when a problem really crops up, we can address it 
calmly, even if Accused.

-Oloros

---

From: "Doctroid" <rsholmes@m...>
Date: 01 Sep 2000 10:17:43 -0400

As Oloros insists on doing it by the book, I've posted a guilty plea.

Rule 12 states:

The Defendant()s may post a message to the AML with the subject line
"Guilty as Charged". The Defendant(s) immediately lose 10 points
and the disputed action is revoked.

...

When an Action is Revoked, the following events occur:
* If the Action was a deletion, the deleted message must be reposted
* If the Action was a posting, the message must be deleted
* If Gamedata has changed since the Accusation was made, the Player
who made the Accusation must post a message to the AML with the
subject line "Consequences of Accusation" and with its text
describing the Gamedata as if the Revoked action had not occurred.
This message then becomes the current state of the Gamedata.

Part of the reason for P94 is that this last bit is so recalcitrant.
Much of it is in the passive voice, so it doesn't say WHO is supposed
to do this stuff. But the only sensible reading of the first two
asterisked points is that I'm supposed to delete the message relating
to the points changes as a result of the adoption of P88.

Now, what are the point totals at this moment? I've lost 10 points.
The points assigned/deducted for P88 are unassigned/undeducted; to
complete the legal adoption of P88 presumably I need to post a new
message with the new point assignments/deductions. But before or
after my 10 points? And before or after Oloros posts his
"Consequences of Accusation"? Should Oloros's post reflect my
penalty? (It's supposed to describe the Gamedata "as if the Revoked
action had not occurred" -- well, if it hadn't occurred, there would
have been no Accusation, hence no penalty for me, so he's not supposed
to post my penalty! Yet Rule 12 implies my penalty is imposed before
the revokation... as I read it, Oloros's "Consequences" message should
therefore nullify my penalty!) Note that Oloros should *not* post a
correction of the point assignments for P88. 

Sheesh. 

One thing I'm pretty sure of: I see nothing here that says I'm
required to post point totals at this moment. I will have to in order
to complete the Adoption of P88, but there's no deadline for that, so
I can wait until revokation is complete.

I was thinking of posting three Accusations against Oloros (for
deletion of legal P92, deletion of legal P93, and posting of a second
P92) but on second thought, given that unwinding those will be even
harder than unwinding this one, I'll let someone else play Plaintiff
if they like...

- D

---

From: "Oloros the Blue" <oloros@l...>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 15:33:01 -0000

> [Doctroid]
Perhaps I was operating under an earlier precedent that used these 
Accusations for annoyingly trivial corrections. Then again, the lead 
paragraph of the expeditious Proposal in question made reference to 
what may be an annoying trivial Rule. 

There is a good amount of points change to run through before I can 
post the Consequences of the Accusation. And I am certain that doing 
so will knot my own knickers as well.

-Oloros