Subject: Jumping the Gun

From: Gallivanting Tripper <s3036845@s...>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:10:09 +1000

Well, there I've done it.

I've officially posted three proposals, which will

1) fix a few bugs in the Points system (to whit, the starting number is
currently not specified, and Players can currently get points for voting
aGAINST a rule-change which has already been adopted, which hardly seems
fair)

2) fix a major bug in the voting system which means a 2 for/2 against
proposal has can neither be adopted nor defeated

3) introduce a declaration of loyalty for incoming players (and we'll have
to do the same)

If no-one else believes that the game has actually started, then I
recommend that those changes be incorporated into the revised starting
ruleset.

Dan, I don't know if you're subscribed to the Rules list, but would you
agree that if a ruleset is posted on that list that is internally
consistent, the game has started?

Ever stirring

GT

---

From: "Oloros the Blue" <oloros@b...>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:07:23 -0000

> I've officially posted three proposals, which will
Hurrah. 
Now pay attention: we can Vote on these Proposals, but, once Voted 
upon, those Proposals cannot be Approved. According to the Escape-
Hatch, clause, when it is repealed, the RuleSet reverts to its 
initial state, also repealling any new Rules or Amendments.
So the first Proposal to pass must be the one to close th escape 
hatch.

-Oloros

---

From: Xylen <mctupper@h...>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:14:22 -0600

On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, you wrote:
> I've officially posted three proposals, 
<<snip>>
> consistent, the game has started?

It is my opinion that the game would officialy start as soon as
someone posted the first proposal. There are now four proposals, so the
game is in progress. I have posted the rules individually to the RULES
list, as well as posting a compilation called the Rule Set. I would
like everyone to take notice of Rule 0. The one that I posted is the
version that was posted to the DML yesterday. That version fixed a few
minor problems that everyone seemed to agree with or at least didn't
object to. Under the Escape Hatch clause, I have posted the new
version. 

Regarding the slew of proposals, I would like to mention one thing. All
four of those proposals were not posted to the DML for discussion prior
to being posted to the VML and AML. This isn't a bad thing, and there
is nothing illegal about such moves, but I hope people will discuss
proposal ideas before posting in the future. Especially when we get to
big complicated proposals. But for now, we are all excited to get
started, so there isn't much danger. 

Xylen
-- 
Email is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of
contents may have occurred during transmission.

---

From: "Oloros the Blue" <oloros@b...>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:54:52 -0000

--- In [email-masked], Xylen <mctupper@h...> wrote:
> someone posted the first proposal. 
>
Xylen, you've Voted AGAINST closing the Escape-Hatch. I spirit of 
discussion, how do you interpret the final sentence?

--from Rule 0,
Escape-Hatch: The Players of Socialnomic reserve the right to, by
unanimous or near-unanimous informal decision, amend whatever parts of
the ruleset that, for whatever reason, make the Game unplayable. The
instant this Definition is repealed or modified, the Game restarts
using its starting Ruleset.

---

From: "Dan Marsh (aka 'The Governor')" <dmarsh@v...>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:10:51 -0400

Gallivanting Tripper wrote:

> . . .

> consistent, the game has started?

Well, you've got a point; the posting of the rules represents the official
ruleset, but I see nothing that indicates that the game either is OR is not
active. My thought is that if proposals are made in accordance with the rules
which have been published in accordance with the rules, then de facto the game
has started.

And a ruleset is almost never fully internally consistent. There's almost
always an enterprising player who can figure out how to scam the rules, even
when they're as well-put-together as most starting rulesets are.

---

From: Gallivanting Tripper <s3036845@s...>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:10:10 +1000

>So the first Proposal to pass must be the one to close th escape

Umm, this was not quite what I had in mind. The escape hatch is not meant
just for setting-up purposes, it is meant as a legitimate solutions to
critical problems down the track. In any case, removing the escape hatch
will cause the game to restart with a new escape hatch! I'd say that the
only way to rmove the escape hatch is by invoking it (and you won't get my
agreement at this stage)

cheers

GT