Subject: PROPOSITION ABNPROP 1 FOR DEBATE

From: smartgamer <sgamer@s...>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:11:36 -0500

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Since we're back up, let's start off with a new proposition.
This one's an idea about a rule change, not a new rule.
It will stomp on a whole lot of rules.

It's up for debate under rule 303, meaning that it is up for vote
(in whatever form it ends up in) in one week's time.

I rarely do HTML mail, but I have to here; italic text is
being removed, underlined text is to be added.

207. Voters may vote either for ,or against, or claim that it is "stupid" f=
or any proposal within its prescribed voting period. A vote of "stupid" is =
counted, for most purposes, as a NO, and is counted as such in all situatio=
ns where not stated directly otherwise. In order to be legally cast, the vo=
te must be received by the Speaker by the end of the prescribed voting peri=
od. The Speaker may not reveal any votes until the end of the prescribed vo=
ting period. Any Voter who does not legally vote within the prescribed voti=
ng period shall be deemed to have abstained.=20

211. Voters who voted against proposals which are adopted receive 10 points=
apiece., if that vote was "no." If the vote was "stupid," the voters LOSE =
five(5) points apiece, as, if the proposition passes, it's obviously not st=
upid. Players whose proposals are adopted shall receive 10 points plus a ra=
ndom number of points in the range 1-10 inclusive. Players whose proposals =
are not adopted shall lose 10no points, unless there are more "stupid" vote=
s than "no" votes, in which case the proposer loses 15 points. Amended by 3=
15. 4/16/2000.=20

All that this proposal will do is dampen the effect of the penalty for a ba=
d idea. People were becoming too afraid to create new proposals, for fear o=
f the penalty. If this proposal passes, then only truly bad ideas will get =
a penalty; others will be politely declined. The five point "stupid" vote p=
enalty will keep people from throwing them around.

If this rule is put in effect, we're going to see more motion on the boards=
!
--Adam "SmartGamer" Norberg

---

From: Devon Jacobs {Darkstar} <djacobs@n...>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:16:53 -0400

Adam,

neat twist on the results of casting a vote... 

the only thing that concerns me is using "stupid" for the other type of
vote... having a whole bunch of people call your proposal stupid can be
just as intimidating as getting it voted down in the first place. 
OurNomic is composed of a wide age range of players, and while I am but
an old geezer, and could care less if someone thinks my prop is stupid,
some of our younger players might not take it so well. while the rule
structure is good, and it may work out better in the end to have a yes
(+score), no (0 score), and penalty (-score) vote, can we come up with
some different wording for it??? 

also, the only one who sees the votes is me, therefore the only one who
would see the explanation for why a prop is "stupid" is me, it wouldn't
let the other players know why it was deemed stupid in the first place...
hopefully, folks would have spoken up in the message board and said...
'hey that's stupid, why don't you try this to make it better...' like I'm
doing now ;-) 

At 08:11 AM 8/20/01 -0500, you wrote: 

<excerpt>Since we're back up, let's start off with a new proposition.

207. Voters may vote <italic>either </italic>for
<underline>,</underline><italic>or</italic> against<underline>, or claim
that it is "stupid" for</underline> any proposal within its prescribed
voting period. <underline>A vote of "stupid" is counted, for most
purposes, as a NO, and is counted as such in all situations where not
stated directly otherwise.</underline> In order to be legally cast, the
vote must be received by the Speaker by the end of the prescribed voting
period. The Speaker may not reveal any votes until the end of the
prescribed voting period. Any Voter who does not legally vote within the
prescribed voting period shall be deemed to have abstained. 

211. Voters who voted against proposals which are adopted receive 10
points apiece<italic>.</italic><underline>, if that vote was "no." If the
vote was "stupid," the voters LOSE five(5) points apiece, as, if the
proposition passes, it's obviously not stupid.</underline> Players whose
proposals are adopted shall receive 10 points plus a random number of
points in the range 1-10 inclusive. Players whose proposals are not
adopted shall lose <italic>10</italic><underline>no</underline>
points<underline>, unless there are more "stupid" votes than "no" votes,
in which case the proposer loses 15 points</underline>. Amended by
<<http://humber.northnet.org/windrant/OurNomic/ruleset.htm#315>315.
4/16/2000. 

All that this proposal will do is dampen the effect of the penalty for a
bad idea. People were becoming too afraid to create new proposals, for
fear of the penalty. If this proposal passes, then only truly bad ideas
will get a penalty; others will be politely declined. The five point
"stupid" vote penalty will keep people from throwing them around.

If this rule is put in effect, we're going to see more motion on the
boards!

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Sponsor</color></bold> 

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</excerpt><<<<<<<<

.

/ \

| |

|.|

|.|

|:| __

,_|:|_, / )

(Oo / _I_

+\ \ || __|

\ \||___|

\ /.:.\-\

|.:. /-----\

|___|::oOo::|

/ |:<<_T_>:|

|_____\ ::: /

| | \ \:/

| | | |

\ / | \___

/ | \_____\

`-'

-Devon Jacobs-

-Grand Silly Kniggit-

--Speaker of Our Nomic--

---

From: smartgamer <sgamer@s...>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:47:52 -0500

charset="iso-8859-1"

OK... how about "Yes," "No," "Unacceptable?"
--SmartGamer
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Devon Jacobs {Darkstar}=20
To: [email-masked]=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [on_discussion] PROPOSITION ABNPROP 1 FOR DEBATE

Adam,

neat twist on the results of casting a vote...=20
the only thing that concerns me is using "stupid" for the other type of v=
ote... having a whole bunch of people call your proposal stupid can be just=
as intimidating as getting it voted down in the first place. OurNomic is c=
omposed of a wide age range of players, and while I am but an old geezer, a=
nd could care less if someone thinks my prop is stupid, some of our younger=
players might not take it so well. while the rule structure is good, and i=
t may work out better in the end to have a yes (+score), no (0 score), and =
penalty (-score) vote, can we come up with some different wording for it???=
=20
also, the only one who sees the votes is me, therefore the only one who w=
ould see the explanation for why a prop is "stupid" is me, it wouldn't let =
the other players know why it was deemed stupid in the first place... hopef=
ully, folks would have spoken up in the message board and said... 'hey that=
's stupid, why don't you try this to make it better...' like I'm doing now =
;-)=20

At 08:11 AM 8/20/01 -0500, you wrote:=20

207. Voters may vote either for ,or against, or claim that it is "stupi=
d" for any proposal within its prescribed voting period. A vote of "stupid"=
is counted, for most purposes, as a NO, and is counted as such in all situ=
ations where not stated directly otherwise. In order to be legally cast, th=
e vote must be received by the Speaker by the end of the prescribed voting =
period. The Speaker may not reveal any votes until the end of the prescribe=
d voting period. Any Voter who does not legally vote within the prescribed =
voting period shall be deemed to have abstained.=20

211. Voters who voted against proposals which are adopted receive 10 po=
ints apiece., if that vote was "no." If the vote was "stupid," the voters L=
OSE five(5) points apiece, as, if the proposition passes, it's obviously no=
t stupid. Players whose proposals are adopted shall receive 10 points plus =
a random number of points in the range 1-10 inclusive. Players whose propos=
als are not adopted shall lose 10no points, unless there are more "stupid" =
votes than "no" votes, in which case the proposer loses 15 points. Amended =
by <http://humber.northnet.org/windrant/OurNomic/ruleset.htm#315>315. 4/16/=
2000.=20

All that this proposal will do is dampen the effect of the penalty for =
a bad idea. People were becoming too afraid to create new proposals, for fe=
ar of the penalty. If this proposal passes, then only truly bad ideas will =
get a penalty; others will be politely declined. The five point "stupid" vo=
te penalty will keep people from throwing them around.

If this rule is put in effect, we're going to see more motion on the bo=
ards!
--Adam "SmartGamer" Norberg

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D178320.1566800.3122525.1261774/D=3Degroupweb/S=
=3D1705057088:HM/A=3D766844/R=3D0/*http://www.fastweb.com/ib/yahoo-57f>=20

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <http://docs.yahoo.com/info=
/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20

<<<<

.
/ \
| |
|.|
|.|
|:| __
,_|:|_, / )
(Oo / _I_
+\ \ || __|
\ \||___|
\ /.:.\-\
|.:. /-----\
|___|::oOo::|
/ |:<_T_>:|
|_____\ ::: /
| | \ \:/
| | | |
\ / | \___
/ | \_____\
`-'
-Devon Jacobs-
-Grand Silly Kniggit-
--Speaker of Our Nomic--