Subject: Re: MN: Re: Re: making nomic easier

From: "miKi mn" <mn_miKi@h...>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:13:50 -0800

From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
>Kevan said:
> > > 3. Have more emphasis on creating Special Rulesets which is
> > more in character with Traditional MC, so the basic game remains
> > reasonably simple and hence straightforward for newcomers and old
> > timers like myself who have lost the plot.
> >
> > This seems a good way to go. A sturdy, static basic ruleset, but
> > which can be used to play dynamic Nomic games (or to replay previous
> > Special Rulesets, of course).
>
>This sounds exactly right provided the nomic games only affect the
>Special Rulesets, not the 'static' basic ruleset.

This gets right to the nub of the matter - if we are going to make any 
progress, I suggest that we do something like have a go at getting the rules 
into a decent starting point by whatever method we choose - maybe PaulWay's 
idea of us each doing a setion is a good one, and then we play the basis 
rules (and those only) and allow the nomic to work in a way in which we 
agree. After a time when things are settled, we can then set it in stone and 
start developing Special Rules.

I agree with whoever it was that suggested that having the individual 
special rules small in scope so that one can plug and play a great number of 
combinations. I can even envisage a "What special rules are you playing?" 
webpage where one can click on the options one would like and the relevent, 
complete, ruleset for those selections would be returned.

An extension of that idea is to call the add-ons "Options", as in the 
"Finsbury Option" from York which acts in addition to the standard rules, 
but that there could also be "Variants" which modify the standard rules. For 
example, the Ongar Variant might have a different mechanism for determining 
a change in LV. This could also be accomplished using a web-based 
interface-type thing. It does, however, require someone to write the thing, 
and I have no clue whatsoever when it comes to web-based programming.

Thoughts please,
Mind the gap,
- miKi

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From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:14:34 -0000

> and I have no clue whatsoever when it comes to web-based
programming.

I agree with all of this except for the method used to get there. The
basic ruleset should be approached in a holistic fashion; anyone
following last summer's discussions will realise that you can't
sensibly discuss x without also considering the knock-on effect on y
and z.

On the other hand where possible we should try to concentrate on the
same part of the ruleset at the same time, so it can be discussed
properly and inclusivly (hopefully to unanmity).

--
Snow
(wondering how many different ways I can spell uniamity)

---

From: Paul Wayper <paulway@e...>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:58:12 +1100

>complete, ruleset for those selections would be returned.

I like this idea a lot.

This reminds me also of my other idea, which is to start the new attempt at 
the ruleset off being formatted in HTML. If we start with consistent 
formatting, then things just fall into place. Tables become easier to 
read, sections and subsections become easier to identify, bulletted and 
numbered lists become simple, etcetera. It also becomes possible to build 
a ruleset parser, a ruleset modifier web tool, and other useful gadgets 
that make everyone's lives (especially the Speaker's) much easier.

I also foresee the possibility of using XML (thought I don't even know how 
to write it), and having a Ruleset Formatter like miKi has proposed above: 
specify which combination of rulesets you're playing under and the engine 
spits out the list of all rules that apply.

I must look up a good XML tutorial on the web.

Have fun,

Paul

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From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:50:43 -0000

PaulWay said:
> numbered lists become simple, etcetera.

The RealMC ruleset used HTML.

> spits out the list of all rules that apply.

The RealMC ruleset was written in XML and transformed to HTML using
XSLT.

The ruleset formatter should be easy to write, but writing the ruleset
in such a way that it always produces something sensible might be
quite hard. It depends how much forethought is put into it I suppose.

--
Snow
(Mmm, chocolate)