Subject: Re: MN: Re: Re: RL interchanges

From: riffraff@n...
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:20:02 -0500

>Great idea. We can make up the interchange rule via some sensible
>consistant means and then edit the map to match.

(...)

>Yes, there's no point complicating the matter with under-construction
>lines that don't exist anymore. We should just make a copy of the
>current map from the LU website and put it on Xoom.

Given the choice, I highly prefer finding a more modern map to use, rather
than making artificial-seeming changes to the one we have now.

--Riff

"This calls for a subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence."
--Vyvyan, "The Young Ones"

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From: David Lynch <geometricity@c...>
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 23:37:34 +0000

>than making artificial-seeming changes to the one we have now.

Ideally, I'd like to see a ruleset written to where you could put in any 
city's map or any version of the LUL map and still have it work, with the 
exception of designating another "goal" station in place of MC as 
necessary. Perhaps a clause saying that before a game begins, someone (the 
Speaker?) declares the map/goal to be used. There are a lot of little bells 
and whistles that are specific to London, but that shouldn't necessarialy 
be the whole point of the game.

David Lynch
(at home)

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From: "Ole Andersen" <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 01:46:27 +0200

Daivd wrote:
: Ideally, I'd like to see a ruleset written to where you could put in any 
: city's map or any version of the LUL map and still have it work, with the 
: exception of designating another "goal" station in place of MC as 
: necessary. Perhaps a clause saying that before a game begins, someone (the 
: Speaker?) declares the map/goal to be used. There are a lot of little bells 
: and whistles that are specific to London, but that shouldn't necessarialy 
: be the whole point of the game.

I really cannot see how I could agree more. Only trouble is, what do different maps show? Do all maps have zones? Do all maps have Interchanges? Do all maps have Termini?
And - if we make our own definitions of this and that - what do we do, whenour definition clashes with the one on the map?

Ole
-not sleeping (though I oughta)

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From: David Lynch <geometricity@c...>
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 05:27:43 +0000

At 23:46 8/5/2000, you wrote:
>I really cannot see how I could agree more. Only trouble is, what do 
>different maps show? Do all maps have zones? Do all maps have 
>Interchanges? Do all maps have Termini?
>And - if we make our own definitions of this and that - what do we do, 
>when our definition clashes with the one on the map?
>
>Ole

Default to what the map says in all cases. Otherwise, go with the 
definitions. If there are no zones marked, default to some number of blacks 
to turn or some system of distance from the center of the map.

David Lynch
(at Home)

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From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:12:15 +0100

David said:
> >different maps show?

Which is exactly why we should use more general definitions. Ones that
will work on any map. Then for convienence we can make a few minor
changes to a rastor map so we can see at a glance what is an
interchange and what is not. If a player can't access Xoom then any
map will do, because the definitions produce the same stations however
the map is marked.

-- Snow
Charmed was on and Inspector Morse was on at a different time, maybe I
was wrong about the conspiricy.

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From: Paul Wayper <paulway@e...>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:58:40 +1000

At 06:20 PM 5/08/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>Yes, there's no point complicating the matter with
>>under-construction lines that don't exist anymore. We should just
>>make a copy of the
>Given the choice, I highly prefer finding a more modern map to use,
>rather than making artificial-seeming changes to the one we have
>now.

Yes, and if we made a map in order to make the ruleset simple and
sensible, it wouldn't be MC, would it? :-)

Paul

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From: Paul Wayper <paulway@e...>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:05:42 +1000

>Interchanges? Do all maps have Termini? 

All maps (of necessity) have Termini. Most maps I've seen either
have interchanges explicitly or all stations where two lines join are
shown like interchanges on the LU. Zones are the main problem -
almost no maps show zones, and the ones that do are significantly
less (usually) than the LU. About the only one that has a comparable
zone system that I can think of is the Sydney map.

What I wanted a while back, and Snow (I think) made a
somewhat-working version of, is a program that can take a picture of
a map, and then allow you to specify stations, connect those stations
as lines, encompass stations in zones, and then store these values in
a database. This would allow you to take any map (e.g. the horrible
picture of the Paris Metro) and clean it up so it could be used as a
map for MC.

Ideally this would also do a few useful calculations for you - it
could work out station charges (if we ever brought that system back
into play); it could tell you how many stations were in a zone so you
could get a good idea of proportions (aiming for a similar proportion
of stations in a zone to the LU would be a Good Thing) and so forth.

>And - if we make our own definitions of this and that - what do we
>do, when our definition clashes with the one on the map? 

Or when the map is updated?

I agree with David's point - we shouldn't make the ruleset so
LU-centric that it's impractical to adapt it to another map.

Paul (making a small comeback)

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From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:11:26 +0100

> sensible, it wouldn't be MC, would it? :-)

I'm not suggesting making a map or editing a map and then using it as
the rules. I say produce the rules in a map-independant way. Then if
people find it convienient edit a map so that interchanges are marked
as such and non-interchanges are not.

The current system (interchanges as defined on the map) is different
for each version of the map. If we define an interchange in a way that
doesn't rely on a particular version of the map (David's suggestion
say) then you can use any map. However to make finding interchanges
easy a map can edited so that the interchanges are marked correctly.

-- Snow
Is the answer: a 300bps modem and Quake Arena.