Subject: MN: Tokens

From: riffraff@n...
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:25:41 -0500

>> Do we need to give Tokens for Passing? I remember there was a reason
>> for it, but I can't remember what.
>
>It was a way to avoid a Player being trapped without Tokens, unable
>to get to an Interchange to get some; something that was, I think,
>more of an issue in the earlier days. Over time, Passing just became
>an easy way to get the Tokens you needed, if you weren't doing
>anything much. I think we can live without the bonus. If someone does
>get pinned down without a Token to their name, all credit to the
>pinner-down.

I don't think that's possible any more anyway... since you can always move
3 Stations for free, and gain at least 1 Black Token after every Move, the
only way I can think of that it could happen is for all the Stations around
your Home Station to be blocked while you're there. Very unlikely. I
included the bonus just as a way to get non-black tokens (since you'd
probably never choose a black one for Passing) if you needed one and were
in a situation where you couldn't otherwise get them, but I could go either
way if people think it's not necessary.

>
>> Is there anything to stop a person making a Move of zero length?
>> Should there be? If there is no restriction can we dump the Pass
>> option?
>
>I'm not really sure about a zero-length Move, at this stage. I think
>a Pass should remain if only to permit the dialogue "Hmm, I can't do
>anything, I'll pass.", though, which is a common enough refrain at
>York and MCiOS.

Yep.

>
>> I think Players should have to do something more complicated than
>move
>> to get Tokens. That said, the current system might work quite well.
>Go
>> out to Zone 4/5/6 get some blacks. Come back to Z1. Use the blacks
>to
>> make a long move and get tokens via the interchange system.
>
>Hm, that sounds too bothersome. I think one of your choice from an
>Interchange is fair enough, Interchanges being more vulnerable.
>Restricting Movement (particularly gravitating it to the Circle Line)
>should keep everyone together and make movement more strategic. No
>bad thing.

I was thinking of some kind of modification on the current system... might
as well declare Tokens as the next item of discussion, eh?

Here's my thoughts and ideas re: Tokens...

Colours:

Black: for movement and movement-based Actions. The Zone bonus makes them
plentiful, so we don't need any other means of collecting them.

Red: For Actions that directly affect other Players (i.e. attacks)

Blue: For Actions that indirectly affect other Players or affect the game
as a whole (i.e. changes to Game State) (I personally feel that these
should be somewhat more common than the Reds, in reverse of the original
rules where the Reds were more common. I guess I'm just not very
agressive. ;) )

Green: Neutral or miscellaneous Actions. Primarily, I think these would be
used as Tokens spent to buy extra Actions. Since that's a valuable
ability, they should be slightly harder to get than your average token,
which is why I like the idea of having to Recycle other tokens to get them
- you have to travel to one of a particular group of Stations and pay a
Plastic token (and maybe a Bronze as well) to get one. This forces you to
plan ahead when getting them, whereas if we simply use Black Tokens or "Any
Plastic Token", then you lose that extra opportunity for strategizing.
(Esp. since Blacks are incredibly easy to get now.) After studying the map
a bit, I think recycling should be available only at Green Stations -
there's only 12 of them, but they're well spread out and there's one
reasonably near just about any spot on the map, without it being _too_ easy
to get to them.

Bronze: Used for minor Actions, to add extra cost to more powerful Actions,
and possibly as upkeep to Actions with duration (should we implement any).
Also, can be collected and cashed in for Silver Tokens. They should be
relatively common.

Silver: For extra-powerful Actions, and to cash in for Gold. I think these
should _only_ be available through saving up Bronzes, forcing Players to
save up for those powerful Actions, rather than just pulling off a
5-interchange Move like before.

Gold: For extremely powerful Actions, and for winning. Available through
saving up Silvers, and some other tricky manoeuvers to be decided later.

Token Bonuses for Moves:
(# of Int. passes through, and # of Lines from an Int. landed on)

2 Int. - 1 Br
3 - 1 Br, 1 Bu
4 - 1 Br, 1 Bu, 1 Rd
5 - 2 Br, 1 Bu, 1 Rd
6 - 2 Br, 2 Bu, 1 Rd
7 - 2 Br, 2 Bu, 2 Rd
8 - 3 Br, 2 Bu, 2 Rd

... and so on. A Player could easily gain a couple Bronze and maybe a Blue
each Move, and the high numbers of Tokens gained with longer moves is
balanced by the number of Black tokens required to make such a move. To
pass 8 Interchanges, you'd have to spend 7 Blacks. (Remember, the Station
landed on doesn't count as 'passed through'.)

The table's open-ended, since a Player could theoretically stash up a load
of Black Tokens and make a truly massive Move, unless we want to put a
limit on Stations moved in a turn.

8 Br = 1 Si; 4 Si = 1 Go?

Stacking: I don't think Token Stacking needs to be changed from the
original version, except to add that black tokens spent for the Move aren't
stacked, and recycling for Green tokens is a Token Exchange, so they aren't
stacked either.

That reminds me: along with our current Pre- and Post- Move and Neutral
Actions, how about also having some Free Actions, which wouldn't count
toward your number of Actions in a turn. These would primarily be Token
Exchange Actions, like Recycling and <Silver to Gold>, although we might
come up with others at some point.

Whew. So, what do the rest of you think?

--Riff

"This calls for a subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence."
--Vyvyan, "The Young Ones"

---

From: "Snow" <snowl@s...>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:50:09 +0100

> >anything, I'll pass.", though, which is a common enough refrain at

Yes, but is that Pass for the Move or Pass for the Turn. Is there any
difference between Passing for the Move, but still making Actions, and
making a zero-length Move and Actions.

Rushton is at Charing Cross.

Rushton: [Blocking Waterloo] Charing Cross (NT) [Wild Green Park]
Rushton: [Blocking Waterloo] Pass (Charing Cross (NT)) [Wild Green
Park]
Rushton: Pass

Just notation really.

> plentiful, so we don't need any other means of collecting them.

OK, but see my comment about greens.

> Red: For Actions that directly affect other Players (i.e. attacks)

OK

> as a whole (i.e. changes to Game State)

OK

> (I personally feel that these

Depends on what Actions are available really.

> Green: Neutral or miscellaneous Actions.

I think Greens could be replaced by Blacks and/or Blues. Say 4 blacks
for an extra Action, Blues for the rest. Reduce the complexity a
little.

> Bronze: Used for minor Actions, to add extra cost to more powerful
Actions

OK

> should _only_ be available through saving up Bronzes,

I don't think we need these as well as Golds and bronzes. If they're
just bigger denominations of Bronzes then I can't see the point. It
doesn't matter if someone has 2000 bronzes it's just a number. I
suppose this might be different for RL where a stack of 30 bronze
might be bulky, but then we could just have a 10Br token.

> Gold: For extremely powerful Actions, and for winning

OK.

> limit on Stations moved in a turn.

We could say you can't pass through or land on a Station already
passed through. Or cap the number of blacks a Player can hold (say
10).

> Stacking: I don't think Token Stacking needs to be changed from the

I'll have to think about these.

> toward your number of Actions in a turn.

OK.

--Annatov Snow
Minus two wisdom teeth and some blood.

---

From: "Kevan " <kevan@s...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:11:25 -0000

> plentiful, so we don't need any other means of collecting them.

*Too* plentiful, perhaps? I originally (gods, nostalgia) proposed 
them as a way to stop too much Line hopping - you could only changes 
Lines by spending a Black, and could only get a Black by staying on 
the same line for a Turn. Are there (or will there be?) enough useful 
movement Actions to stop Black Tokens piling up?

> rules where the Reds were more common. I guess I'm just not very

I don't know; the basic Red Actions of Shunting and Blocking are so 
useful that they really *need* to be cheap, allowing the threat of 
them to be fairly ever-present. Something like Blocking, being so 
dependent on Player location, should be one of the cheapest Actions 
of the game, I think.

> Plastic token (and maybe a Bronze as well) to get one.

Hm, I always saw Greens as being "any-colour" Tokens, since you could 
easily Recycle anything to get them, and the fact that their Actions 
were so vague and neutral fitted it quite well.

> Bronze: Used for minor Actions, to add extra cost to more powerful 
Actions,
> and possibly as upkeep to Actions with duration (should we 
implement any).

Are we losing Possessions, then?

> (# of Int. passes through, and # of Lines from an Int. landed on)

Fearsome. Wouldn't it be easier to deal with on a "one Token of any 
Colour if you land on an Interchange, maybe two if it's a hefty one 
like Bank or Baker Street", particularly in real life play? Have I 
said this before?

> limit on Stations moved in a turn.

Hm, this scares me a bit, the idea of someone coughing out five 
Blacks for a charge through Zone 1, gathering a load of differently 
coloured Tokens and then whapping me with a two-Blue and two-Red 
Action I wasn't expecting? Hoarding Blacks for a speedy Move is fair 
enough, but getting Tokens for it as well seems nasty.

As has been said before, and I think still applies, moving quickly is 
its own reward.

> stacked, and recycling for Green tokens is a Token Exchange, so 
they aren't

Hm. Not worth ditching the idea of Token Stacking if we're going to 
try and play this in real life? You can't guarantee that everyone 
will have stackable Tokens available, after all (I'd probably use 
glass beads, myself). And I always found Stacking a bit dull, anyway; 
it was only really the expensive Tokens (and cheerful rule abuse) 
that made it worthwhile. I'd rather see Stacking killed off, maybe 
keeping the amusing "Gold Rush" Action as a "put a Gold Rush counter 
on a random Station; if a Player moves to a Station with a Gold Rush 
counter, they gain two Golds" thing.

> come up with others at some point.

Hm, this seems fair enough. I'm not sure what others we'd ever need, 
though.

Kevan

--
kevan@s...
http://www.stormloader.com/kevan
"Later on the Northern Line, she'll freak about the lack of sky."