Subject: MN: Another GSD idea...

From: "Wayper, Paul" <WayperP@p...>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:04:10 +1000

+----------+----------------+-------------+---------------+-------------
------+
| GAME: 32 | TIME: Wed 1700 | CIRCLE: <-- | BRIDGES: down | Out of Knip
|
+-STATIONS:+-(W)=Wild---+---+----------+--+-(D)=Damaged---+----+--------
------+
| Amersham | BkBkSiRe | Angel (D) |
|
| Chalfont & Latimer | ReBkBkBkBu | Charing Cross | Susp
Package |
| Ealing Broadway | Bk | Epping | BrBkRe
|
| Mile End (D) | BkBuBuReSiBk | Rotherhithe (W) |
|
+-Player-(S)=Spoon------+LV+-Bk-Bu-Br-Go-Re-Si-+-Home-Station--+-(D)=Dro
ne----+
| Willie (S) | 8| 4 0 5 1 3 1 | Chorleywood
|
| Tim | 4| 3 2 4 2 4 1 | Dagenham Heathway
|
| Drone | 6| 1 2 2 0 1 1 |
|
| Graeme (D) |10| 7 1 4 0 6 3 | Tooting Bec
|
+-POSSESSIONS:+---------+--+-------------------+------------------------
------+
| Willie | Zone 1 Pass, Hats (ACV)
|
| Tim | Railcard, Chocolate Bar, Marmalade Sandwich, Hats (TV),
Harmonica |
| Graeme | Zones 1-3 Pass, Railcard, Hats (AOTV)
|
+---------+-------------------------------------------------------------
------+

While we're discussiong new GSD headers, here's one catalysed from
Dave's idea, but compressed down to eliminate a fair bit of the lines
and white space, and to initial things (like Spoon for players and
Damaged for stations) where we'll get used to seeing them that way soon
enough.

Anyway, have a good one, whatever it is. Mine started off pretty bad
and I've lived with it.

Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer
_____________________________________________________________________
SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and
reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames.
If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW

---

From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" <DELLIS@U...>
Date: 10 Jul 98 10:00:55 +0100

Well, the obvious criticism is that it's too wide at 80 characters and 
gets wrapped by the list. 

I think the GSD format we've got stretches the current list's limits about 
as far as they'll go - that's only 71 characters wide, but with different 
Players' mailers adding spaces in odd places (mine adds trailing spaces, 
someone else's adds leading spaces) there is enough leeway for the GSD not 
to get wrapped at unfortunate moments. 

There are two other more substantive points which I think work against 
this format, though: 

1. the station table will get a lot larger. If you have a dozen token 
stacks, three wild stations and a few damaged stations where none of 
those are common, you've suddenly got a station table of twice the size. 
Of course, this is less important if the overall GSD header is smaller, 
but fundamentally marking a wild/damaged station in this way when it 
doesn't have a token stack is considerably less space-efficient than 
the old one-line block approach introduced for damaged stations. 

2. the element of sequence is lost. Both Wild and Damaged Stations rely 
on the order in which things happened, and if you're flagging stations 
in an alphabetically ordered table then you lose the information about 
which was declared/damaged first. 
In computer science terms this is the same thing as the difference 
between the ordering in a linked list and that in a hah table - the 
hash is more efficient for some things, but loses sequence information. 

I think the best bet is to leave damaged stations more or less as is, and 
to change wilds to work in the same way. I like the rest of it though. 

-- 
Dunx 
IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle 
<I work for Oracle, I don't speak for them>

---

From: kenningd@w... (L'homme a tete de choux)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:10:53 +0100

Since the problem with Paul's version of the GSD was that it was too wide, I've
trimmed it to 73 characters, which solves that problem, but now I think it
looks extremely cluttered and unintelligible (this, of course, may be my fault
for the way I've trimmed it).

+----------+----------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+
| GAME: 32 | TIME: Wed 1700 | CIRCLE: <-- | BRIDGES: down | Out of Knip |
+-STATIONS:+-(W)=Wild---(D)=Damaged-+-----+--------------++-------------+
| Amersham | BkBkSiRe | Angel (D) | |
| Chalfont & Latimer | ReBkBkBkBu | Charing Cross | Susp Package |
| Ealing Broadway | Bk | Epping | BrBkReBuBuBu |
| Mile End (D) | BkBuBuReSiBk | Rotherhithe (W) | |
+-Player-(S)=Spoon---+LV+-Bk-Bu-Br-Go-Re-Si-+-Home-Station----(D)=Drone-+
| Willie (S) | 8| 4 0 5 1 3 1 | Chorleywood |
| Tim | 4| 3 2 4 2 4 1 | Dagenham Heathway |
| Drone | 6| 1 2 2 0 1 1 | |
| Graeme (D) |10| 7 1 4 0 6 3 | Tooting Bec |
+-POSSESSIONS:+------+--+-------------------+---------------------------+
| Willie | Zone 1 Pass, Hats (ACV) |
| Tim | Railcard, Chocolate Bar, Marmalade Sandwich, Hats (TV) |
| | Harmonica |
| Graeme | Zones 1-3 Pass, Railcard, Hats (AOTV) |
+---------+-------------------------------------------------------------+

>and to initial things (like Spoon for players and

I think the initials for Drone Keeper and Spoon are OK ideas, but those for
Wild and Damaged stations are not such a good thing (for reasons already
expressed by others).

>Anyway, have a good one, whatever it is. Mine started off pretty bad

Oh dear. You poor thing.

Anyway, since I quite clearly have too much time on my hands (actually, I'm
skiving -- I've got plenty of work to be gettig on with, but I can't face it
right now) I've had a look at the two games currently in progress and produced
an alternative version of the GSD for each.

*****************************************************************************

The Game 8 versions look comparatively like this:

+---------+----------------------------+----+-----------------------------+
| Player | Home | LV | Tokens |
| | | | Bk Bu Br Go Re Si |
+---------+----------------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
| dave | East Putney | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Grimace | Bethnal Green | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Paulway | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Dunx | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Drone | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Julie | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Kevan | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
+---------+----------------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
+---------------++--------------------------------------++----------------+
| Bridges: Down || WILD STATIONS || Time: Sun 1900 |
+---------------+| |+----------------+
+---------------+| |+----------------+
| Out of Knip || || Circle: <-> |
+---------------++--------------------------------------++----------------+

+---------+----------------+-------------+---------------+----------------+
| GAME: 8 | TIME: Sun 2000 | CIRCLE: <-> | BRIDGES: Down | Out of Knip |
+=========+==+=============+=====+=======+===============+================+
| Player |LV| Bk Bu Br Go Re Si | Home |
+---------+--+-------------------+----------------------------------------+ 
| dave | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | East Putney |
| Grimace | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | Bethnal Green |
| Dunx | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | |
| Drone | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | |
| Julie | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | |
| Kevan | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | |
+---------+--+-------------------+----------------------------------------+

They're at 75 characters, which should be comfortable for most email browsers,
and I think for legibility and comprehensibility there's not much in it, even
though the alternative version is significantly more compact -- both still have
swaths of white space, but I think that aids legibility and thus is a good
thing.

***************************************************************************

When the Game is in a 'mature' state, such as Game 4, it looks more like this:

+------------+--------------------+----+-----------------------------+ 
| Player | Home Station | LV | Tokens | 
| | | | | 
| | | | Bk Bu Br Go Re Si | 
+------------+--------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ 
| Dunx | Finchley Central | 6 | 7 | 0 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 
|*Jon | Neasden | 5 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 
|*Slakko | Dollis Hill | 0 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 
| PaulWay | Oval | 3 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 
| Grimace | Swiss Cottage | 7 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 
| miKi | Vauxhall | 0 | 3 | 1 | 6 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 
|*Drone | | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
+------------+--------------------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ 
+---------------+ +-----WILD STATIONS---+ +--------------------------+ 
| Bridges: Down | | Gunnersbury | | Game Time: Friday 0500 | 
+---------------+ | Snaresbrook | +--------------------------+ 
+---------------+ | Pinner | +--------------------------+ 
| Out of Knip | | | | Drone Keeper: | 
+---------------+ +---------------------+ +--------------------------+ 
+------------------+--------------++------------------+--------------+ 
| Mile End | ReBrBkBkBk || Morden | ReBkBrBr | 
| Camden Town | BrBrBrBrBr || Temple | ReBrBkReRe | 
| Brixton | BlReBrBr || Beckton | ReReReReBkRe | 
| Elm Park | BuBuBuBu || Elephant & Castle| BkBkBrBr | 
| Borough | BrBrGoBrBrBr || Dollis Hill | BrBrBkReRe | 
| Oakwood | BkBkBkBkBkBk || Finchley Central | BuBuBuBu | 
+------------------+--------------++------------------+--------------+ 
+------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Dunx | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (A,O) | 
| Jon | *Zone 4*, 1-6 Passes, Hats (C,V,T) | 
| Slakko | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (C,O) |
| PaulWay | Zone 2 Pass, Hat(T) | 
| Grimace | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (A,C,T,V) | 
| miKi | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (T,O,C) | 
+------------+-------------------------------------------------------+

+---------+----------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+
| GAME: 4 | TIME: Fri 0500 | CIRCLE: <-> | BRIDGES: Down | Out of Knip |
+---------+----------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+
| WILD: Gunnersbury, Snaresbrook, Pinner |
+===================+==============++===================+==============+
| Mile End | ReBrBkBkBk || Morden | ReBkBrBr | 
| Camden Town | BrBrBrBrBr || Temple | ReBrBkReRe | 
| Brixton | BlReBrBr || Beckton | ReReReReBkRe | 
| Elm Park | BuBuBuBu || Elephant & Castle | BkBkBrBr | 
| Borough | BrBrGoBrBrBr || Dollis Hill | BrBrBkReRe | 
| Oakwood | BkBkBkBkBkBk || Finchley Central | BuBuBuBu | 
+============+==+===+==============++==================================+
| Player |LV| Bk Bu Br Go Re Si | Home Station |
+------------+----------------------+----------------------------------+ 
| Dunx | 6| 7 0 4 1 1 2 | Finchley Central | 
|*Jon | 5| 4 0 3 0 1 0 | Neasden |
|*Slakko | 0| 3 0 5 0 4 0 | Dollis Hill |
| PaulWay | 3| 3 0 2 0 0 1 | Oval |
| Grimace | 7| 3 2 1 1 3 1 | Swiss Cottage |
| miKi | 0| 3 1 6 3 2 1 | Vauxhall |
|*Drone | 0| 2 0 2 0 2 0 | |
+------------+--+-------------------+----------------------------------+
| Dunx | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (A,O) | 
| Jon | *Zone 4*, 1-6 Passes, Hats (C,V,T) | 
| Slakko | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (C,O) |
| PaulWay | Zone 2 Pass, Hat(T) | 
| Grimace | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (A,C,T,V) | 
| miKi | Zone 1-3 Pass, Hats (T,O,C) | 
+------------+---------------------------------------------------------+

The currently employed version is 70 characters wide, the alternative version
72 -- the bare minimum needed to get all the necessary info into the top line
(unless you remove the game number, which is, after all, superfluous)

Again, I don't really think there's much in it, legibility wise (though Graeme
has already disagreed with that, which is fair enough). The alternative is 29
lines long compared to the original's 35, so admittedly not much in it that way
either.

Ultimately, there are two significant factors of the new design which I would
like to see incorporated into the GSD format, even if nothing else is:

1. putting the LV and token count next to the players' names, and the list of
home stations to the right (whether or not the more compact version of the
token table is adopted, I feel this would be an improvement)

2. altering the game state information (time, bridges, circle, etc) to
something like the suggested new format, i.e. on one line, rather than in boxes 
-- obviously this is something that has been mooted previously (so really I'm
just voicing my agreement rather than suggesting anything original) though
nothing seems to have been done 'officially' to adopt the idea.

So, if anyone has thoughts on those two points.....?

dave

---

From: Graeme Jefferis <Graeme.Jefferis@f...>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:58:22 +0100

>lines long compared to the original's 35, so admittedly not much in it
that way

I've actually undergone a change of heart here, having seen how it works
on
the Game 4 sample. Only things I do dislike are the 'equals' bars, which
I
think work better as single-hyphen bars; I have tried this but for the
sake of
brevity won't include it here. Having seen Paul's 'condensed' version, I
think 
I prefer this 'compacted' one.

Do we really need to hack the table up quite so much, though? Could we
possibly
keep the main part (Player detail and home stations) and compact the
other
state boxes as demonstrated on the new version? I think, all in all, I'd
prefer
that.

And, I've just tried it; I'll file attach it rather than have it torn up
going
through the letterbox. It measures a respectable 30x71 characters, and
has
sacrificed the Game number to reduce the top line width. There's nothing
vaguely original in it, but here you are anyway...

-Graeme.

> <<gsdmix.txt>> 
name="gsdmix.txt"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="gsdmix.txt"

+--------------------+---------------+-----------------+-------------+
| TIME: Fri 0500 | CIRCLE: <-> | BRIDGES: Down | Out of Knip |
+--------------------+---------------+-----------------+-------------+
+------------+-----+--------------++---+----+----+----+----+----+----+ 
+------------+-----+--------------++------------------+--------------+