Subject: MN: Questions

From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:28:48 -0500

I was about to post this as Comments as my last move in Game 12, but I
figured it'd be more appropriate here:

Say I end my turn at an Interchange; for example, Oxford Circus, which
services (BL), (VC), and (CN), and I've arrived from Marble Arch (CN). If
I want to move to Regent's Park (BL) on my next turn, do I have to pay a
black token for a Line Change action, even though I'm starting my turn at
an interchange for that line? It would seem to me that the cost should
only apply to line changes made mid-move, say a move from Marble Arch to
Regent's Park made in only one turn.

And a related question: In this situation, would I get the token bonus for
making a move on only one line?

Unrelated Question: If a station qualifies for more than one type of hat,
can you claim multiple hats from that station in the same turn?

cheers,
--Riff

"I wouldn't be so judgemental if you weren't such a _sick freak_."
--"Goats" (www.goats.com)

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From: kenningd@w... (kenningd)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:24:48 +0100

>A Piece's location is defined by both Station and Line. In Real Life terms, 
>a passenger can only be on one platform at a given time. To change line 
>requires some trudging around tunnels to get to the right platform - in 
>MN this is represented by paying a Black Token. 

I go along with this. I would also say that essentially there's no difference
between a mid-move line change and a between-move line change.

>No. 

This is an interesting one. Since 'Line Change' became an action, I think it's
not so clear that this is the case, though I would argue that game custom is
decisive in resolving any ambiguity.

dave

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From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:08:33 -0500

>You do have to pay the Line Change toll, since your Piece starts the Turn
>on a different Line to the one you wish to travel on.

Okay, I'll buy that.

>>making a move on only one line?

But: Line Change is a _Pre-Move_ action (1.7.2), and the bonus is for
making a _Move_ that doesn't involve changing lines (ref chart 1.4.0).
Since I'm changing lines _before_ I'm moving, then I'm not changing lines
_during_ the Move.

I would reason that I do have to pay to get to the new line _before_ I
move, but my Move doesn't actually start until _after_ that. Thus, I get
the token bonus for not changing lines during my Move.

</rules lawyer>

--Riff

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From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" <DELLIS@U...>
Date: 24 Nov 98 08:12:35 +0000

>Since I'm changing lines _before_ I'm moving, then I'm not changing lines 

I can see what you're driving at, but that's not it. From Rule 1.5.11: 

"A Piece Move that involves a change of Line is Invalid unless the 
Moving Player has performed a "[Line Change]" Action during eir 
Turn." 

The change of line still occurs during your Move. The (usually implicit) 
[Line Change] Action is played in order to make such a change of line 
legal. 

>the token bonus for not changing lines during my Move. 

No: you have to pay to allow your Move to include a Line Change. Consider 
it as buying a ticket to allow a change of line - the change of line still 
happens during the Move, but you buy your ticket before you start. 

There are other instances where an Action affects the Move: [Opening MC] 
must be played to make movement or Play to MC legal; [Wild] makes all Wild 
Stations valid for that Turn; and so on. 

I think the name of the Action should perhaps be changed - as you say, the 
name [Line Change] implies that the Action effects the change of line when 
it is merely enabling it. 

-- 
Dunx 
IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle 
<I work for Oracle, I don't speak for them>