Subject: MN: RE: Tithing (from the Cryer Lounge)

From: "Wayper, Paul" <WayperP@p...>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:02:20 +1000

On Saturday, December 05, 1998 5:13 AM, Kevan Davis
[SMTP:kdavis@i...] wrote:
> My Play had, of course, involved putting the Blue Tokens paid for
> the Tithe Action into a couple of Zone 6 Stacks, so that I'd be
> able reclaim them (through the Tithe itself) next Turn.

I think the only real amendment one needs to make to this is to make the
cost of the Tithe action vapourise. I can't see why you shouldn't be able
to stack tokens up in a selected zone and then Tithe them away again (of
course, someone can spot this strategy and tithe them beforehand...) but the
cost of the Tithe action shouldn't be reclaimed, that's all.

> Good to see this sort of thing happening, anyway. "Aha, if I
> use this rule like *this* and this one like *this*, I get quite
> an advantage" is pretty much the point of games like this, and
> I think the above situation is an excellent piece of proof, if
> proof were needed, that we've got a particularly fine set of
> rules going. Lower-case kudos all round.

I think the other thing to note here is that we're all used to the various
tricks and traps of 'real' MC (who here would find themselves cornered on
the Jubilee by a simple Neasden Lock these days? It's 'the oldest trick in
the book'...). What we're having to do in MorNomic is learn the correct
application for all those tricks again. Realising how the Tithe rules are
used is just like working out how to do a Straddle to MC. Everyone picks it
up sooner or later.

Grink,

Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer
_____________________________________________________________________
SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and
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---

From: Kevan Davis <kdavis@i...>
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:42:55 +0000

>cost of the Tithe action shouldn't be reclaimed, that's all.

I don't know - as I say, for a long time I dismissed the Tithe action
as useless, because I'd rarely ever want to spend Blue Tokens just to
get a few other-coloured ones. It's very easy for Players to avoid
the effects of a Tithe, and the only *real* use for such an Action is
to gather back Golds that may have expended for Spooning. But even
that's quite weak, if such Golds end up in Zone 2.

Musing further upon potential fixing, I think a "[Tithe Collection]"
capping Action might be a good way of doing it - you pay *7-x* Blues
(rather than 8-x) to play the "[Tithe X]" Action, then pay another
Blue next Round to perform a "[Tithe Collection]" and claim the
Tokens. It'd discourage continual Tithing, and also provide a means
of sabotage - if someone can get the game in Knip, steal your Blue
Tokens, or whatever, you won't be able to collect the Tithe reward
during your next Turn.

>Realising how the Tithe rules are

True enough, but then it's only a matter of time before everyone picks
up the easy way to avoid or sabotage a Tithe. We're lucky in that we
can fix "broken" rules on the fly (rather than descending into the
horrible imbroglio of cards-that-should-be-banned that Magic: The
Gathering tends to keep falling into), but we shouldn't be too quick
to do so.

Although I'm not sure whether it's good or bad to have a collection of
mediocre-looking rules that can be powerfully abused, but that can also
be powerfully sabotaged, really.

Kevan

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