Subject: [MacroNomic] CFJ

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:43:36 -0400

CFJ 3
Filed by: Henry
Judge: JT
Statement: Slakko has exactly 10 Acres of Vote Farm.

Reasoning: I believe that it has been unofficial game custom that a player
ceases to be an entity within the game of Macronomic when they have left
the game.

I believe this to be the case because Entities are a game defined concept.
According to the convention (Section 0-1-0-1, English), unless a statement
is given an in-game meaning then common english usage applies. Leaving the
game merely says that the player leaves the game.  It assigns no other
in-game meaning to those words.  Therefore common english would mean that
the leaving player ceases to be a player and thus ceases to be an entity
since a non-playe of the game isn't defined to be an entity. Even the
joining the game rule makes a distinction here and says a player is
considered new if no previous player had the same email address.  This
implies a change of state from player to something undefined by the rules
and then back to playerhood.

If the above argument about entityhood is persuasive, then the events upon
Slakko's joining and leaving and rejoining were as follows: He joined the
game and gained 10 Vote Farms. He left the game, ceased to be an entity and
his 10 Vote Farms devolved to the management of the State. He rejoined the
game and thus gained 10 Vote Farms.

Thus the statement above should be judged TRUE.

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

---

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:22:32 +0100 (BST)

> game and thus gained 10 Vote Farms.

May I just quote some rules carefully here:

Section 6-1:
: Each Tangible Object has a property which is it's controller, and which
: must be a valid Entity. If the Entity which controls a Tangible Object
: ceases to exist, then that Object ceases to exist. 

OK.  This doesn't look good for me continuing to own the Vote Farms.
However, it doesn't look good for the State owning them as well.  If
the Player was destroyed, then those vote farms were destroyed, so the
State should only have 190 Farms left.  There is certainly nothing in the
rules which specifies that any such Vote Farms should devolve to the
state.  In fact, as no such rule exists, Section 0-0 specifically forbids
it from happening:

: No changes to the gamestate occur except those prescribed by the rules. 

At no stage did the rules prescribe that my Vote Farms were to be
transferred to the State.

In addition, at no point did the Entity of my Player cease to exist.  It
may have ceased to be an entity, but that did not mean that it was
destroyed. It did mean that the controller was not in accordance with
Section 6-1, but the lack of a method of resolution of this problem means
that Section 0-0 prevents any "ad hoc" resolution such as the Vote Farms
devolving to the State (as this is not specified in any rule).

In summary:
(1) No rule specifically ordered that my Vote Farms should devolve to the
State on my leaving the game.
(2) Section 0-0 prohibits the gamestate from being changed in a manner not
prescribed by the rules.
(3) (1)+(2) => I have 20 acres of Vote Farms.

-- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

---

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:56:24 -0700 (PDT)

>state.  In fact, as no such rule exists, Section 0-0 specifically forbids

You missed Section 6-1-0-2

   Vote Farms are a type of Tradeable Object. Vote farms are measured in
   integral numbers of Acres. There is a Global Limit of 200 Acres of
   farmland, and there are always exactly 200 Acres of Vote Farms. Any
   Acres of vote farms not controlled by any other entity are controlled
   by The State.

Therefore, if you ceased to own them they did devolve to the state.

>devolving to the State (as this is not specified in any rule).

This we disagree on.
I believe that the fact that you ceased being a player caused your 'player
entity' to cease existing as well under common english meaning of the
words in the rule.

While I didn't like having to judge the CFJ I initially submitted, I was
not allowed to reject judgement on it, so I did rule it TRUE and have
returned it to Henry.

--JT

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