Subject: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade

From: "Brian Campbell" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Jul 98 00:01:59 -0400

I have an idea that might work for the reworking of trade and proposal
commodities, and fit with the Communist government that we have. Everyone
can get whatever they want from the State (with some limit, perhaps).
However, if they get from the state more than they contribute, they lose
loyalty. Also, if they contribute more than thay take, they may gain
loyalty.

The way it will actually work is that people will get Credits for doing
various things (secretarial psitions, being a professor, winning sub-games,
maybe getting proposals passed, etc.). With credits you may buy tradable
objects from the State, within some sort of limit. You may convert loyalty
into credits, and vice-versa, with some small "tax". We can then get rid of
the proposal mines, as everyone can buy their commodities from the State.
You still get commodities back if your proposal passes, in the same way as
you always have. People can buy vote farms, but they are expensive (and
there should be some kind of limit, as there is no infinitely large
country). Any thoughts?

--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda)
Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/
Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/
Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/

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Nihil sub sole novum.

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From: Aidan McLoughlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:05:33 +0100

>--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda)

i thought of something similar but i've been away since friday (that's why
i didn't retract my prop., sorry)
 
i thought perhaps if a reward system for secretaries is introduced a
welfare system for those 'unemployed' ie. without a secretaryship could
also be introduced, obviously it would have to be less than the rewards for
secretaryship or no one would want one! :)

perhaps a reward system for those that propose more than the average
rounded up (?) could also be introduced (even though technically it is
against communism Stalin rewarded those that worked very hard with better
housing and more food rations etc. because if it improved production it was
ok in his book)

i think that we should have a limit on the amount of vote farms.  like
Brian sed no country is infinately large, perhaps we could have different
quality farms too (no farm is identical to another in reality) and perhaps
at a later date we could invade some neighbouring territory and take over
more land, obviously there would  be a period of unrest when they were
first captured when the farms may work at half efficiency or something.
Mines would also have to be limited and again captured. perhaps there could
be a random element as to whether we succeed in the invasion and if not the
state loses some stuff and another random element as to what is gained.

i like your ideas too, but there should be a limit so that anyone with a
loyalty of 0 cannot just take stuff from the state and not lose anything.
perhaps negatives should be introduced with anyone dropping into negative
considered an 'enemy of the people' and penalised in someway like limiting
them to purchasing only low quality mines and farms (exiled to siberia).
perhaps they should only be declared enemies by the SoCC. when they are
declared an enemy of the people there loyalty is reset to 20 or something.
perhaps if you are declared an enemy of the people three times (?) you are
declared an enemy of the people and executed or exiled from the country
(?). New players would need to start with about 100 though to give them a
chance of surviving.  If this was introduced all current players should get
an extra 100 loyalty (otherwise i would probably be declared an enemy of
the people staight away :)

Do you think this is getting to close to reality?

Dan

  /================================================================\
  | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.  |
  | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. --  :)      |
  \================================================================/

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From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:59:44 -0400

>secretaryship or no one would want one! :)
	I'm not sure that's neccessary.  Instead we should just have other
ways to get rewards which don't depend on being a secretary.

>Do you think this is getting to close to reality?
	It's all interesting, but it seems to be adding all sorts of RL
complexity.  This is still only a game, we don't have to follow real life.
I don't want to limit the number of farms outright, I just don't want it to
be possible to gain them easily.  As for better and worse farms and so on,
it just seems horribly complicated to legislate and worse to track.

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

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From: Aidan McLoughlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:11:27 +0100

>ways to get rewards which don't depend on being a secretary.

there could still be one off rewards like those i suggested in the second
paragraph, i'm not proposing that i am right and everyone else is wrong or
that "all ways are miiy ways!!" (--Queen of Hearts, Alice in Wonderland) or
that we cant encompass many ideas from different people.  infact i think
that unless the eventual decision is an aculmination of ideas from many
people most will become dissatisfied with it (if a bit in a proposal is
your idea your unlikely to be against the proposal as much as if you were
excluded.

i think that as those who have a secretaryship have an extra responsibility
and more work to do than us (not you though) simple plain old proles who
basically only have to vote . so they should be rewarded for there efforts.

>it just seems horribly complicated to legislate and worse to track.

i thought i might have been going a bit over the top there, i just got
carried away :)

Dan

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From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:05:14 -0400

>and more work to do than us (not you though) simple plain old proles who
	(Be nice.  I do a little extra.  Besides, none of my Secretariats
get rewards.)
>basically only have to vote . so they should be rewarded for there efforts.
	Isn't that what the loyalty bonuses are?  I definately agree that
there should be more ways to get rewards, I just think it should involve
doing a little extra.  Incidentally, papers give a reward, if anyone wants
to be a professor...

>i thought i might have been going a bit over the top there, i just got
	It happens to all of us.  I once proto-proposed a true economy for
Acka.  It involved tracking "production" and prices which varied with the
economy...

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>