From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Wed Jul 1 05:13:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA19310 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:13:49 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Wed, 1 Jul 98 13:37:31 +0200 Message-ID: <359A1FFC.199C50CA@docnet.de> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:39:41 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" , lambda@world.std.com Subject: [MacroNomic] Votes 94-110 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 210 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 94: LOYAL, 96: LOYAL, 98: LOYAL, 99: LOYAL, 101: LOYAL, 102: LOYAL, 103: AGAINST, 104: LOYAL, 105: LOYAL, 106: FOR, 107: FOR, 108: FOR, 109: FOR, 110: FOR Ember From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Wed Jul 1 08:13:49 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA19925 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:13:47 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Wed, 1 Jul 98 15:43:03 +0200 Message-ID: <359A3D68.5B7980D1@docnet.de> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 15:45:13 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: [MacroNomic] Huh? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 211 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I've got some questions. First, are the proposals no longer sent out by mail, or am I on the wrong list? Second, is it just Lambda that profits from the knowledge about others' proposals, or am I excluded somehow? Third, I need more ideas... does anyone want words or terms? Ember From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 08:51:05 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA20087 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:51:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:51:02 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? In-Reply-To: <359A3D68.5B7980D1@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 212 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >I've got some questions. >First, are the proposals no longer sent out by mail, or am I >on the wrong list? You are on the right list. The proposals are now 'privately' submitted and do not get distributed until today. >Second, is it just Lambda that profits from the knowledge >about others' proposals, or am I excluded somehow? See above.. he's the only one with prior knowledge, and I intend to make using that prior knowledge a crime. (I think it should be a criminal crime, but could be persuaded otherwise) In other news, the assets page is done and will be uploaded shortly. I perform my weekly trades with Towsner and Lambda (they are now listed on the assets page btw), and ask if there are other perpetual trades that people please remind me of them so that they get performed :) I also use the State Mines to aquire one Term. Now for votes: 94: AGAINST - My main objection to this is that it currently reads "The only players who may vote on a case are those who can vote on its parent case." and this proposal still leaves that broken wording in there. It should read (imho), "The only players who may vote on a penalty...." 96: AGAINST - Again, I'm voting against this for a minor cosmetic detail. In this case it is that the sentance 'The Secretary of Economics is MacroNomic's Customs Officer'. I also don't want to have to track extra-nomic stuff, and so if this does pass, I will be offing the SoE to either Towsner or Lambda if they want it, or to someone else if they don't. 98, 99, 101: FOR 105, 106: FOR 107: AGAINST - I like the alternate way of winning and happen to agree that there shouldn't be 2 rewards. 108: AGAINST - This has two problems. The first is that I see no problem with having games end in a draw, and forcing a winner either excludes a large portion of possibly fun sub-games, or forces rules to be changed specifically for here. My second objection is that it was intended to allow multiple copies of a sub-game to be running at the same time, and this explicitly forbids it. 109, 110: FOR --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Wed Jul 1 12:54:29 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20886 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:54:22 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA21027; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a019.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA05520; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:50:32 -0400 Date: 1 Jul 98 15:55:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 213 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, Jul 1, 1998 11:51 AM, JT wrote: >See above.. he's the only one with prior knowledge, and I intend to make >using that prior knowledge a crime. (I think it should be a criminal >crime, but could be persuaded otherwise) Being Secretary of Truth is a lot of work, and I think that there should be some advantage to it. And that advantage just happens to be that I may submit proposals that rely on other proposals. If I really wanted, I could write the proposal, and then submit it to myself at the very beginning of the next week, but all that would so is delay it a week. If I do that, not much has really changed, except that I get the loyalty a week later. So why bother? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 13:07:39 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20944 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:07:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 214 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 1 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >On Wed, Jul 1, 1998 11:51 AM, JT wrote: >>See above.. he's the only one with prior knowledge, and I intend to make >>using that prior knowledge a crime. (I think it should be a criminal >>crime, but could be persuaded otherwise) > >Being Secretary of Truth is a lot of work, and I think that there should be >some advantage to it. And that advantage just happens to be that I may >submit proposals that rely on other proposals. If I really wanted, I could >write the proposal, and then submit it to myself at the very beginning of >the next week, but all that would so is delay it a week. If I do that, not >much has really changed, except that I get the loyalty a week later. So why >bother? I agree that it's a large amount of work, so are (or could be) some of the other secretaryships. I am working on a proposal which will hopefully reward the secretaries which have to do quite a bit of maintainance for the game. You have already seen the proposal I referenced above since I sent it to you pretty much immediately after i sent the above. I believe that the secretaries should seperate their 'working' knowledge of the game from their playing knowledge in some respects. Currently the only secretary that this really impacts is the SoT. However, should it ever be the case that some other secretary or game officer had foreknowledge which would allow them to play to an advantage, I would institute a similar crime (or modify the existing one) to cover that as well. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Wed Jul 1 13:42:29 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21064 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:42:11 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA27456; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA12914; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:39:37 -0400 Date: 1 Jul 98 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 215 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, Jul 1, 1998 4:07 PM, JT wrote: >You have already seen the proposal I referenced above since I sent it to >you pretty much immediately after i sent the above. I believe that the >secretaries should seperate their 'working' knowledge of the game from >their playing knowledge in some respects. Currently the only secretary >that this really impacts is the SoT. However, should it ever be the case >that some other secretary or game officer had foreknowledge which would >allow them to play to an advantage, I would institute a similar crime (or >modify the existing one) to cover that as well. Why not make the rule more general now, rather than specifying one secretary and having to add another rule or change this one later? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 14:11:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21207 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:11:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 216 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 1 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Why not make the rule more general now, rather than specifying one >secretary and having to add another rule or change this one later? Mainly because I couldn't come up with a way to do so cleanly immediately, but wanted to get that rule in there :) Since there was only one problematic (imho) posistion currently, I decided to fix the problem now and generalize it later. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 17:27:01 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21768 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:26:59 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.129] (ip129.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.129]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06869 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:24:21 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? X-archive-position: 217 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:14:46 -0400 To: tows@earthlink.net From: Henry Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? Status: RO >>On Wed, Jul 1, 1998 11:51 AM, JT wrote: >>>See above.. he's the only one with prior knowledge, and I intend to make >>>using that prior knowledge a crime. (I think it should be a criminal >>>crime, but could be persuaded otherwise) Who would it be a civil crime against? >I agree that it's a large amount of work, so are (or could be) some of the >other secretaryships. I am working on a proposal which will hopefully >reward the secretaries which have to do quite a bit of maintainance for >the game. Personally I think it's a fair reward. It's a great deal of work, and it gives him a slight speed advantage. I have no problem with it. --- end forwarded text -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 17:27:04 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21772 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:27:01 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.129] (ip129.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.129]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06960 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:26:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:24:18 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: [MacroNomic] Votes X-archive-position: 218 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:11:49 -0400 To: tows@earthlink.net From: Henry Towsner Subject: Votes Status: RO 102:AGAINST. I don't like having RPG's modify the entire ruleset (potentially). How about saying that the rule becomes the youngest child of 7 other than 7-0. Then add to 7 something like "Descendants of this rule defer to all rules which are not descendants of this rule. Descendants of this rule which are not descendants of rule 7-0 may not modify anything not defined in a descendant of this rule unless specifically permitted by a rule which is not a descendant of this rule." 7-0 could grant specific permissions for things like an award for winning certain games. If we're going to use a method other than proposals, we should limit it. Also this is less stringent than a proposal, since it will pass on a tie. 103:FOR. I don't love the wording, but if it passes I'll make a proposal to improve that. 104:FOR 106:FOR, although it inexplicably makes me uncomfortable. 107:AGAINST. This seems scammable, since two players could conspire to play a string of two player games, etc. etc. Let me plug my suggestion for sub-games here. A sub-game could specify whether it gives that reward or not, depending on how many players it takes. Also, I think a LOYALTY point award should be something like 3 points per player instead of a flat value. As an aside, I don't think your attempt at ducking a penalty if 102 fails will work right. 106 says "However, if the proposal it is dependant on changes to the Inactive state in any other way". 102 will already have become inactive, so it will not change to the Inactive state after 106 is a rule, so 106 would never come into effect. 108:AGAINST. You never say that the best player is the winner and the phrasing of this would be very awkward. 109:FOR 110:FOR As for sub-games, I have a few more comments. I do support having sub-games, but we're pretty small. Here's my suggestions: "Create rule 7, "Subgames" Create rule 7-0, "Subgamers" and give it the following METAPLAYER-delimited text METAPLAYER A Subgamer is someone who can play in a subgame. A Subgamer must have an alias and an e-mail address. All players of MacroNomic are subgamers. All players of gaming nomics are Subgamers. A subgame may define a parallel subgame in a gaming nomic. A player of MacroNomic may join any subgame in a gaming nomic unless they have an avatar already playing in the game if it is permitted by the rules of that nomic and the game has a parallel in MacroNomic. The MacroNomic player will play the game according to MacroNomic rules. A player from a gaming nomic may join a MacroNomic game unless they have an avatar already playing in the game and there is a parallel game in their nomic, but must play according to the rules of their own nomic. Ackanomic is a gaming nomic. METAPLAYER Create rule 7-1, "RPG" and give it the following D&D-delimited text D&D A sub-game may be created through proposal or by submission of a Request for Popular Game (RPG). An RPG is a sub-type of Referenda and the Accountant for RPGs is the Secretary of Entertainment. An RPG must define the following lettered items in order to be a valid RPG. a) The name of the game. b) The number of players. c) The rules of the game. d) A method for determining the winner of an instance of the game. If an RPG is submitted to the Secretary of Entertainment that is not valid as above, the Secretary must notify the submitting player and shall not distribute the RPG, otherwise, the RPG shall be distributed within 3 days. The legal votes for an RPG are YES and NO. All player's votes on an RPG are initially set to NO. When an RPG becomes inactive, if at more players have voted YES than have voted NO then the RPG is accepted. [IE, 50% or greater is sufficient to pass the RPG] When an RPG is accepted it becomes a child of rule 7-3 with the smallest available final section number. D&D Create rule 7-3, "Subgames" and give it the following GAGA-delimited text GAGA A subgame may only specify information to be sent privately, personally, or playfully. Information which is sent playfully must be sent to an authorized "game-related" mailing list. The macronomic@dragocat.net mailing list is an authorized game-related list, as is acka-games@muppetlabs.com. GAGA Create rule 7-3, "Subgames" and give it the following DETAILS-delimited text DETAILS Descendants of this rule defer to all rules which are not descendants of this rule. Descendants of this rule may not modify anything not defined in a descendant of this rule unless specifically permitted by a rule which is not a descendant of this rule. Descendants of this rule are known as "Subgame Definitions". DETAILS I'd also add something defining avatars to 2-0-0." What do people think? --- end forwarded text -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 17:53:34 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21890 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:53:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:53:33 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: MacroNomic Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 219 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >102:AGAINST. I don't like having RPG's modify the entire ruleset >(potentially). How about saying that the rule becomes the youngest child of >7 other than 7-0. Then add to 7 something like "Descendants of this rule >defer to all rules which are not descendants of this rule. Descendants of >this rule which are not descendants of rule 7-0 may not modify anything not >defined in a descendant of this rule unless specifically permitted by a rule >which is not a descendant of this rule." 7-0 could grant specific >permissions for things like an award for winning certain games. If we're >going to use a method other than proposals, we should limit it. Also this >is less stringent than a proposal, since it will pass on a tie. I admit to liking your formulation below better. However, given the fact that players votes are initially NO on RPGs, I would like to see my formulation pass and then have it amended so that I don't lose those lovely commodities and the loyalty. >103:FOR. I don't love the wording, but if it passes I'll make a proposal to >improve that. Mind my asking what you don't like? (Note that 103 really doesn't make much sense unless 102 also passes) >107:AGAINST. This seems scammable, since two players could conspire to play >a string of two player games, etc. etc. Let me plug my suggestion for >sub-games here. A sub-game could specify whether it gives that reward or >not, depending on how many players it takes. Also, I think a LOYALTY point >award should be something like 3 points per player instead of a flat value. >As an aside, I don't think your attempt at ducking a penalty if 102 fails >will work right. 106 says "However, if the proposal it is dependant on >changes to the Inactive state in any other way". 102 will already have >become inactive, so it will not change to the Inactive state after 106 is a >rule, so 106 would never come into effect. I never noticed this scammability. All the more reason that I'm glad I voted against it. [Gaming proposal clipped] > What do people think? I saw only one potential problem and a couple of typos. The problem was the bit about players playing the game according to the rules of their 'home' nomic. This could be problematic if the rules diverge between the two nomics. I would prefer to see it played according to the rules of the nomic which is 'hosting' that instance of the game. Other than that, I like it. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 17:55:57 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21917 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:55:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:55:55 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: MacroNomic Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 220 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>I agree that it's a large amount of work, so are (or could be) some of the >>other secretaryships. I am working on a proposal which will hopefully >>reward the secretaries which have to do quite a bit of maintainance for >>the game. > Personally I think it's a fair reward. It's a great deal of work, >and it gives him a slight speed advantage. I have no problem with it. I still don't like it. In a proposal submitted for next week, I proposed a different reward (basically the SoT gets a free use of the state mines once a week in addition to any others allowed (so an SoT who was a member of the RP would effectively get 2 free uses)) I also proposed rewards for some of the other 'game management offices'. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 18:42:56 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22057 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:42:54 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.129] (ip90.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27597 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:42:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:21:10 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: [MacroNomic] Short of words X-archive-position: 221 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I do my weekly trade with JT and operate the state mines for a word. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 18:42:56 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22056 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:42:54 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.129] (ip90.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27548 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:42:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:04:51 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes X-archive-position: 221 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I admit to liking your formulation below better. However, given the fact >that players votes are initially NO on RPGs, I would like to see my >formulation pass and then have it amended so that I don't lose those >lovely commodities and the loyalty. Fair enough. The concept is good enough, and the risks low enough, that I change my vote to FOR. >>103:FOR. I don't love the wording, but if it passes I'll make a proposal to >>improve that. > >Mind my asking what you don't like? (Note that 103 really doesn't make >much sense unless 102 also passes) Wasn't a big deal. I just thought the way you phrased things about after a win the number of games the person had won was set back to zero was awkward. Pretty trivial actually. >I saw only one potential problem and a couple of typos. The problem was >the bit about players playing the game according to the rules of their >'home' nomic. This could be problematic if the rules diverge between the >two nomics. I would prefer to see it played according to the rules of the >nomic which is 'hosting' that instance of the game. Problem is that every nomic defines things differently (like points, and where you can post things.) Personally, I wouldn't make something parallel unless the rules functioned the same, but were phrased appropriately to each nomic. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 19:04:10 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22159 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:04:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:04:09 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 222 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: > Fair enough. The concept is good enough, and the risks low enough, >that I change my vote to FOR. Thank you. > Wasn't a big deal. I just thought the way you phrased things about >after a win the number of games the person had won was set back to zero was >awkward. Pretty trivial actually. Actually, my intent was that everyone's 'win record' was set back to 0, so that it was sort of a race. > Problem is that every nomic defines things differently (like >points, and where you can post things.) Personally, I wouldn't make >something parallel unless the rules functioned the same, but were phrased >appropriately to each nomic. This is sorta why it worried me, but I suppose it'll work. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Wed Jul 1 19:16:32 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22207 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:16:29 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA07990; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com (ppp0a001.std.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA28118; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:16:03 -0400 Date: 1 Jul 98 22:20:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 223 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, Jul 1, 1998 8:55 PM, JT wrote: >I still don't like it. In a proposal submitted for next week, I proposed >a different reward (basically the SoT gets a free use of the state mines >once a week in addition to any others allowed (so an SoT who was a member >of the RP would effectively get 2 free uses)) I also proposed rewards for >some of the other 'game management offices'. Well, although I like your proposal on rewards for secretaries, I think it would be quite hard for me to ignore the information I already know, as I would have to do if your other prop passed. For example, I have made some proposals that create sections that are the "lowest possible sibling" of some other section. The reason I do this is because I know that there is another proposal that has been created that also creates a section that would go in the same place otherwise. If I pretended I didn't know about this, my proposals might overwrite other people's. Other players could find out about conflicts like this because Section 3-1 explicitly says that the SoT can inform other players of conflicts in their preactive proposals; however, because of your prop I would have to inform myself of the conflicts by publicly sending myself a message, retracting a conflicting proposal, resubmitting a non-conflicting proposal, which would just create needless proposal clutter. I really don't get that much of an advantage (after all, the two current props that were based on prior knowledge are likely to fail anyways), so why bother? If you really don't want me to have an advantage, proto-propose, and inform the public that you have made a proposal similar to that proto-proposal. Then I really have no advantage. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 1 21:55:46 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA22662 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:55:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:55:45 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Huh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 224 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 1 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Well, although I like your proposal on rewards for secretaries, I think it >would be quite hard for me to ignore the information I already know, as I >would have to do if your other prop passed. For example, I have made some >proposals that create sections that are the "lowest possible sibling" of >some other section. The reason I do this is because I know that there is >another proposal that has been created that also creates a section that >would go in the same place otherwise. If I pretended I didn't know about >this, my proposals might overwrite other people's. Other players could find >out about conflicts like this because Section 3-1 explicitly says that the >SoT can inform other players of conflicts in their preactive proposals; >however, because of your prop I would have to inform myself of the >conflicts by publicly sending myself a message, retracting a conflicting >proposal, resubmitting a non-conflicting proposal, which would just create >needless proposal clutter. I really don't get that much of an advantage >(after all, the two current props that were based on prior knowledge are >likely to fail anyways), so why bother? If you really don't want me to have >an advantage, proto-propose, and inform the public that you have made a >proposal similar to that proto-proposal. Then I really have no advantage. Personally, I think it's akin to the seperation of player and character knowledge in a role playing game. The player might know it's a troll and that trolls hate fire, but if the character hasn't encountered a troll before, then the character should not act as if it knows this information. Similarly here, you as a player need to be distinct (in some respect) from you as a Secretary. In the case of mentioning conflicts, that's part of doing your job as secretary. Submitting a proposal based on the fact that you know I submitted a specific proposal, or changing your vote because you know the voting results prior to them being revealed is crossing that boundary. Granted, this is personal opinion, but it makes for a more level playing field (imho) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Thu Jul 2 02:21:28 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA23511 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:21:26 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA07420 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256635.00336191 ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:21:13 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256635.00327425.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:20:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Stuff X-archive-position: 225 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Lambda, Mostly agree with your loyalty calculations. Only two differences. Firstly, for your loyalty score you have added 3*3 for voting loyal three times, yet according to your own web pages, you only voted loyal twice (i.e. you did not vote loyal on prop 90). This would mean your loyalty is 313, not 316. Secondly, you've recorded Dan's loyalty as 9+0=74. I guess that this was just a typo though! Loyalty as I rekon stands at: JT: 297 Philo: 244 Towsner: 216 Lambda: 313 The Kid: 179 Ember: 74 Dan: 9 Narf: 0 Sorry I've not been too active lately, got a bit busy at work. Is it possible for you to send proposals to the mailing list when they become active, and then again with the votes once they're inactive. I have little enough time to read my mail, let alone surf the web. Thanks for your warning that you needed my votes, but unfortunately it came too late, would it be possible for you to send a public warning 24 hours in advance to remind all those who havn't voted? -- The Kid From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 16:27:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26141 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:27:18 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.213] (ip213.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.213]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20114 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:26:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:20:32 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes X-archive-position: 226 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Actually, my intent was that everyone's 'win record' was set back to 0, so >that it was sort of a race. I realize, I just thought it was phrased awkwardly. >> Problem is that every nomic defines things differently (like >>points, and where you can post things.) Personally, I wouldn't make >>something parallel unless the rules functioned the same, but were phrased >>appropriately to each nomic. > >This is sorta why it worried me, but I suppose it'll work. What if instead of a rule saying "this is parallel to Mediocrity in Ackanomic" it says "this is parallel to Mediocrity in Ackanomic as of 1/1/98" and if Mediocrity in Ackanomic has been changed since then it is no longer parallel? --- end forwarded text -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 16:27:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26140 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:27:14 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.213] (ip213.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.213]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19980 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:26:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:27:16 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: [MacroNomic] Stats X-archive-position: 1 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Some statistics I compiled on the first 104 proposals. Good luck reading the tables... Total Props Passed Failed Retracted Props A-20 Philo 8 7 1 0 Henry 8 4 4 0 JT 7 1 6 0 The Kid 1 0 1 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Props 21-40 Philo 6 6 0 0 Henry 2 1 1 0 JT 4 2 1 1 The Kid 5 1 3 1 Narf 2 1 1 0 Lambda 1 0 0 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Props 41-60 Henry 11 7 0 4 JT 2 2 0 0 The Kid 1 0 1 0 Narf 2 0 2 0 Lambda 3 2 1 0 Ember 1 0 0 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Props 61-80 Philo 2 2 0 0 Henry 1 1 0 0 JT 6 5 1 0 The Kid 3 1 2 0 Lambda 5 4 1 0 Ember 3 1 2 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Props 81-100 Philo 1 1 0 0 Henry 9 2* 0* 3 JT 5 2 1 2 Lambda 4 3 1 0 Dan 1 0 0 1 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Total Retracted Accepted Acceptance Indecisiveness Philo 17 0 16 94% 0% Henry 31 7 15* 63% 23% JT 24 3 12 57% 13% The Kid 10 1 2 22% 10% Narf 4 0 1 25% 0% Lambda 13 1 9 75% 8% Ember 4 1 1 33% 25% Dan 1 1 0 0% 100% Commentary: That last batch only goes up to prop 100, so JT and Lambda have a few more. Also, four of my proposals in the last batch are still being voted on, so I may surpass Philo on accepted proposals soon. Indecisiveness is props. retracted/total props*100, acceptance is props. accepted/props. accepted+props. rejected*100. I looked up which of Philo's proposals ruined his perfect record. It was his second, proposal 1, the one about a manifesto and the one true nomic. Note that the numbers are pretty meaningless for several players, notable Narf, Ember, and Dan, since they've only submitted a few proposals. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 2 18:25:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26514 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:25:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:25:18 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: MacroNomic Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>Actually, my intent was that everyone's 'win record' was set back to 0, so >>that it was sort of a race. > I realize, I just thought it was phrased awkwardly. Okay.. I'll certainly be open to suggestions to fix it (or to have you fix it if needed) >>> Problem is that every nomic defines things differently (like >>>points, and where you can post things.) Personally, I wouldn't make >>>something parallel unless the rules functioned the same, but were phrased >>>appropriately to each nomic. >> >>This is sorta why it worried me, but I suppose it'll work. > What if instead of a rule saying "this is parallel to >Mediocrity in Ackanomic" it says "this is parallel to Mediocrity in >Ackanomic as of 1/1/98" and if Mediocrity in Ackanomic has been changed >since then it is no longer parallel? That would work, but what happens if it changes in the middle of a game? Do the players have to drop out, or can the rules not be changed to fix a problem discovered during an instance of the game? (cases in point, some of the sub-games in ackanomic have needed rules fixes during the course of the game to correct some unforseen problem) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 18:33:55 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26551 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:33:51 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.213] (ip213.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.213]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11497 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:31:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:36:10 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes X-archive-position: 3 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >That would work, but what happens if it changes in the middle of a game? >Do the players have to drop out, or can the rules not be changed to fix a >problem discovered during an instance of the game? >(cases in point, some of the sub-games in ackanomic have needed rules >fixes during the course of the game to correct some unforseen problem) How about "The game will be played by the rules of each players home nomic, however any changes to the game made in the host nomic will be used by all players." -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 2 18:46:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26635 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:46:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>That would work, but what happens if it changes in the middle of a game? >>Do the players have to drop out, or can the rules not be changed to fix a >>problem discovered during an instance of the game? >>(cases in point, some of the sub-games in ackanomic have needed rules >>fixes during the course of the game to correct some unforseen problem) > How about "The game will be played by the rules of each players >home nomic, however any changes to the game made in the host nomic will be >used by all players." *nod* I think that covers any and all objections that I had. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 2 21:22:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27238 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:22:18 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA12030; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a029.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA02590; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:21:45 -0400 Date: 3 Jul 98 00:26:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Stuff From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 5 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > Sorry I've not been too active lately, got a bit busy at work. Is it > possible for you to send proposals to the mailing list when they become > active, and then again with the votes once they're inactive. I have little > enough time to read my mail, let alone surf the web. Thanks for your > warning that you needed my votes, but unfortunately it came too late, would > it be possible for you to send a public warning 24 hours in advance to > remind all those who havn't voted? Yeah, I'll start doing that. Sorry I warned you too late; I'll start mailing things out from now on, and warning players farther in advance. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 2 21:34:40 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27295 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:34:40 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 3 01:05:29 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28032 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:05:27 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA17260 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256636.002D1284 ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:05:26 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256636.002C472C.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:04:49 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. X-archive-position: 7 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public >comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the >macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) > >Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. I havn't had anything from him since 1st June, so unless he's mailed any of the secretaries personally, I'd agree he's out. -- The Kid From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 3 02:15:18 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA28226 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:15:14 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 3 Jul 98 10:48:31 +0200 Message-ID: <359C9B61.2B9F3128@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:50:42 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 8 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public > comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the > macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) > Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. > --JT JT, your timing is horrible. Otherwise than that, you're right. Ember From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 3 08:50:54 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29408 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:50:51 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19717 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256636.00571324 ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:51:05 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256636.0056D41C.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 16:50:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Votes 94-110 X-archive-position: 9 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 94, 96, 98, 99, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105: LOYAL 106, 107, 108, 109, 110: FOR -- The Kid From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 3 11:49:20 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29882 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:49:20 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: <359C9B61.2B9F3128@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 10 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >> I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public >> comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the >> macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) >> Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. >> --JT > >JT, your timing is horrible. Otherwise than that, you're right. Ummm.. why is my timing horrible? --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 3 12:22:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30093 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:22:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: <80256636.002C472C.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 11 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >>I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public >>comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the >>macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) >> >>Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. > >I havn't had anything from him since 1st June, so unless he's mailed any of >the secretaries personally, I'd agree he's out. Barring him speaking up or anyone else saying they have heard from him since then, his assets are returned to the states except for his commodities which find their way to the SoCC. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Sun Jul 5 14:09:12 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06437 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:09:09 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA10312; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a029.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA27158; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:08:47 -0400 Date: 5 Jul 98 17:13:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 12 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Barring him speaking up or anyone else saying they have heard from him >since then, his assets are returned to the states except for his >commodities which find their way to the SoCC. We really should change that rule, since not having done anything for two weeks means that a player has really stockpiled on commodities, and it's unfair that it should got to the SoCC. That's a real advantage that the SoCC has, unlike the really minor one that the SoT has. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Sun Jul 5 14:10:33 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06452 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:10:28 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA10408; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a029.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA29670; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:10:13 -0400 Date: 5 Jul 98 17:15:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 13 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >>> I believe it has been well over 14 days since Narf has made any public >>> comment or voted. (at least I don't see anything from him on the >>> macronomic@dragoncat.net mailing list) >>> Again, I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. >>> --JT >> >>JT, your timing is horrible. Otherwise than that, you're right. > >Ummm.. why is my timing horrible? He was referring to a proposal he submited that specifically dealt with this situation. BTW, do you retract that prop now, Ember? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From tows@earthlink.net Sun Jul 5 14:17:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06510 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:17:49 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.129] (ip129.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.129]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18665 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:17:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:22:57 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. X-archive-position: 14 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >We really should change that rule, since not having done anything for two >weeks means that a player has really stockpiled on commodities, and it's >unfair that it should got to the SoCC. That's a real advantage that the >SoCC has, unlike the really minor one that the SoT has. He's right. The excess commodities should just be destroyed. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sun Jul 5 15:13:57 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06683 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:13:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 15 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 5 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>>JT, your timing is horrible. Otherwise than that, you're right. >> >>Ummm.. why is my timing horrible? > >He was referring to a proposal he submited that specifically dealt with >this situation. BTW, do you retract that prop now, Ember? Ahh.. Unfortunately I hadn't known about that proposal, or I'd have probably waited. In an attempt at somewhat fair distribution here, I offer everyone 1 Word and 2 each Ideas and Terms. I'll complete the trade when people accept the offer. IE: my intent wasn't to snarf a lot of free commodities, but really to clean out the deadwood. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Mon Jul 6 00:56:23 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09266 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:56:22 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA27430 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256639.002BB0EC ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:57:13 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256639.002B96DD.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:56:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. X-archive-position: 16 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >In an attempt at somewhat fair distribution here, I offer everyone >1 Word and 2 each Ideas and Terms. >I'll complete the trade when people accept the offer. Sounds fair to me -- The Kid From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Mon Jul 6 04:01:02 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA09992 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 04:00:42 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Mon, 6 Jul 98 11:38:24 +0200 Message-ID: <35A09B92.F15317FC@docnet.de> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:40:34 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 17 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > >Ummm.. why is my timing horrible? > > He was referring to a proposal he submited that specifically dealt with > this situation. BTW, do you retract that prop now, Ember? Yes, I do. (I thought I already did) Ember From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 6 19:17:47 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12987 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:17:21 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA00423; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a027.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA01635; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:16:37 -0400 Date: 6 Jul 98 22:21:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 18 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Ahh.. Unfortunately I hadn't known about that proposal, or I'd have >probably waited. >In an attempt at somewhat fair distribution here, I offer everyone >1 Word and 2 each Ideas and Terms. >I'll complete the trade when people accept the offer. > >IE: my intent wasn't to snarf a lot of free commodities, but really to >clean out the deadwood. OK with me. I really think we should get back to protoproposing, so that this won't happen. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 6 20:39:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13233 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:39:23 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA08121; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a028.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA29846; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:39:03 -0400 Date: 6 Jul 98 23:43:56 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] OOPS! From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 19 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net OOPS! I forgot that the voting period for props is now 5 days. So it's over now. I'm sorry I didn't warn people of this change. Also, I haven't been able to update the web page to reflect these new votes, as I just reformatted my disk and haven't yet reinstalled my text editor. Anyways, here are the results of the props, and sorry again to those people who didn't have a chance to vote: 94: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: AGAINST [10] The Kid: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Ember: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Fails 96: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: AGAINST [10] The Kid: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Ember: LOYAL (AGAINST) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Fails 98: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 99: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 101: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 102: JT Traub Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 103: JT Traub Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Narf: NONE [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: AGAINST [10] Ember: AGAINST [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 104: JT Traub Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 105: Henry Towsner Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Lambda: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Ember: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Dan: NONE [10] 106: Lambda Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Lambda: FOR [10] Ember: FOR [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 107: Lambda Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: AGAINST [10] JT Traub: AGAINST [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Lambda: FOR [10] Ember: FOR [10] Dan: NONE [10] Retracted 108: Lambda Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: AGAINST [10] JT Traub: AGAINST [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Lambda: FOR [10] Ember: FOR [10] Dan: NONE [10] Retracted 109: Lambda Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Lambda: FOR [10] Ember: FOR [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes 110: Lambda Votes: Philo: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Lambda: FOR [10] Ember: FOR [10] Dan: NONE [10] Passes --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 6 23:38:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA13754 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:38:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:38:51 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 20 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 6 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>IE: my intent wasn't to snarf a lot of free commodities, but really to >>clean out the deadwood. > >OK with me. I really think we should get back to protoproposing, so that >this won't happen. I personally don't like proto-proposing, mainly because I think it slows the game down, and people will then never propose something that they don't think will pass, or are unsure if it will pass. That to me takes away part of the fun-factor of nomic. I certainly don't have a problem with people raising a possibly controversial idea up the flag pole. I don't want to see proto-proposing instituted on all proposals. And yes, I do in fact feel strongly about this that should it become the rule I would probably leave the game until that changed. (just so you have a gauge for how much it changes the fun-factor for me) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 6 23:39:22 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA13764 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:39:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 21 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 6 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >OK with me. I really think we should get back to protoproposing, so that >this won't happen. BTW, was the OK with me above, accepting my offer of commodities? It wasn't clear from context. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Tue Jul 7 01:14:40 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14196 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:14:38 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA09932 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663A.002D621B ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:15:42 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663A.002CB588.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:15:08 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! X-archive-position: 22 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Ok, here's the new loyalty from the last round: JT: 297 + 30 = 327 Philo: 244 - 140 = 104 Towsner: 216 +40 - 20 = 236 Lambda: 313(*) + 24 + 30 - 6 = 361 The Kid: 216 + 27 = 243 Ember: 74 + 24 = 98 Dan: 9 - 140 = 0 (*) Note that your loyalty was 313, not 316 as you've got on your web page. I have also privately notified myself that I replace Philo as a member of the Revolutionary Party, as defined in section 2-2. Lambda could also have done this, but I'm sure he'll be the first to say that he didn't really want to anyway...... -- The Kid From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 7 13:48:41 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16591 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:48:35 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.6] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ytedy-0000un-00; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:47:19 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980707214824.006a0704@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:48:24 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Cleaning out deadwood. In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 23 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 15:13 05-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On 5 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: > >In an attempt at somewhat fair distribution here, I offer everyone >1 Word and 2 each Ideas and Terms. >I'll complete the trade when people accept the offer. > >IE: my intent wasn't to snarf a lot of free commodities, but really to >clean out the deadwood. > >--JT I believe you and i definately accept yor offer. Taa Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 7 13:48:48 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16594 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:48:41 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.6] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ytedx-0000un-00; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:47:18 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980707214546.0069dcd4@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:45:46 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! In-Reply-To: <8025663A.002CB588.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 24 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 09:15 07-07-98 +0100, you wrote: >Ok, here's the new loyalty from the last round: > >JT: 297 + 30 = 327 >Philo: 244 - 140 = 104 >Towsner: 216 +40 - 20 = 236 >Lambda: 313(*) + 24 + 30 - 6 = 361 >The Kid: 216 + 27 = 243 >Ember: 74 + 24 = 98 >Dan: 9 - 140 = 0 > >The Kid why am i minus 140??? Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 7 13:50:28 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16630 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:50:22 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.6] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ytefh-0000w2-00; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:49:06 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980707215019.0069dcd4@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:50:19 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 25 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net ps. and Philo too? /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Tue Jul 7 17:48:16 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17393 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:48:04 -0700 Received: from [38.26.2.155] (ip155.isdn6-boston.ma.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.2.155]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00423 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980707214546.0069dcd4@pop.amexmail.com > References: <8025663A.002CB588.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:43:44 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! X-archive-position: 26 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >why am i minus 140??? You didn't vote no a bunch of proposals. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From atharrison@wavetek.com Wed Jul 8 00:48:22 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18791 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:48:20 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA20363 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663B.002AFEEC ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:49:37 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663B.002A73E6.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:49:08 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! X-archive-position: 27 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>why am i minus 140??? > You didn't vote no a bunch of proposals. You also didn't vote yes a bunch of proposals :-> See the rules, section 3-1, point 4 ("All players who voted NONE on that proposal will lose ten loyalty points.") There were 14 proposals, and neither you or Philo had voted in time, so you lose 140 points each. For you it didn't make much difference cos you only had 9 points to start with. It pretty much devastated Philo's score though. It happened to me last round, I lost 50 points cos I forgot to vote. -- The Kid From lambda@world.std.com Wed Jul 8 17:05:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21607 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:05:50 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA12051; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a032.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA24565; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:05:26 -0400 Date: 8 Jul 98 20:10:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 28 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >JT: 297 + 30 = 327 >Philo: 244 - 140 = 104 >Towsner: 216 +40 - 20 = 236 >Lambda: 313(*) + 24 + 30 - 6 = 361 >The Kid: 216 + 27 = 243 >Ember: 74 + 24 = 98 >Dan: 9 - 140 = 0 Actually, I don't think people lost 140. They only lost 120, as I retracted the other two, and so they don't count. Because of this, Philo has 124, and can't be ousted by you at 243. You need 5 more points. >(*) Note that your loyalty was 313, not 316 as you've got on your web page. Yes, I noticed that, but as I said I haven't been able to update the web page recently. >I have also privately notified myself that I replace Philo as a member of >the Revolutionary Party, as defined in section 2-2. Lambda could also have >done this, but I'm sure he'll be the first to say that he didn't really >want to anyway...... ACK! I forgot to say that in my last message. Too late now I guess, except that I think that you don't really have enough loyalty to oust Philo, so I announce it now anyways. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Wed Jul 8 19:54:31 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22043 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:52:40 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA01567; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a005.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA09616; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:47:39 -0400 Date: 8 Jul 98 22:52:32 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] New Proposals From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 29 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Here are the current proposals. I have not yet decided on my votes. Once again, I have not updated the web site yet (I've been quite busy for the past few days), but here they are in plain text form: 112: JT Traub Date: July 1/8, 1998 Create a section 3-2-2-2-1 titled 'Prior Knowledge' with the following PRESCIENCE delimited text. PRESCIENCE It is the Crime of Prior Knowledge for the Secretary of Truth to submit a proposal which relies on the fact that the Secretary of Truth knows about upcoming proposals in advance of their distribution. PRESCIENCE ------------------ 113: JT Traub Date: July 1/8, 1998 This proposal will do a couple of things. First, it will attempt to organize the information about secretaries into neat heirarchy. Second, it will give a method for rewarding secretaries for doing their jobs well. Amend Section 1-0 'Generic Secretaryships' to read as delimited by ADMIN ADMIN There exists the class of Secretaries. A Secretary is always exactly one player. Rules may refer to Secretariatships being vacant, though this reference is to the hypothetical situation in which the Secretariatship is not immediately filled. A Secretary may be required to maintain one or more public documents in the course of performing the secretaryship. Unless such documents are mandated by the rules, the Secretary is not required to maintain it, but might do so for their and other's convenience. A Document mandated in this fashion is managed by the secretary who is required to maintain it. Any Secretary except for the Secretary of the Central Committee may step down from their position in favor of another consenting player. A secretary may recieve compensation as defined by the rules for fulfilling their duties. ADMIN Renumber Section 1-1 to section 1-0-1. Create a section numbered 1-0-2 titled 'Secretary of Truth' with the following text as delimited by TRUEORFALSE TRUEORFALSE There exists the Secretary of Truth. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of Truth to maintain the document refered to as "The Rules of Macronomic". The Secretary of Truth shall be compensated by being allowed to operate the State Mines once a week without a cost of loyalty in addition to any other allowed uses of the State Mines. TRUEORFALSE Create a section numbred 1-0-3 titled 'Secretary of Friendship' with the following text as delimited by FRIENDLY FRIENDLY There exists the Secretary of Friendship. The Secretary of Friendship must maintain a document containing the current Loyalty scores of all players. The Secretary of Friendship recieves compensation of 1 random proposal commodity each week. FRIENDLY Create a section numbered 1-0-4 titled 'Secretary of Justice' with the following JUDGE delimited text JUDGE There exists the Secretary of Justice. JUDGE Create a section numbered 1-0-5 titled 'Secretary of Love' with the following OHBABY delmited text OHBABY There exists the Secretary of Love. OHBABY Create a section numbered 1-0-6 titled 'Secretary of Economics' with the following MONEY delimited text MONEY There exists the Secretary of Economics. The Secretary of Economics must maintain a public document showing which Objects each player currently manages. The Secretary of Economics recieves 1 random commodity each week as compensation. MONEY Create a section numbered 1-0-7 titled 'Secretary of MicroNomic Foreign Affairs' with the following MICRO delimited text MICRO There exists the Secretary of MicroNomic Foreign Affairs. The same player (other than the Secretary of the Central Committee) may not hold both this Secretaryship and the Seargent of the Occupying Force in Command of Foreign Matters. MICRO Create a section numbered 1-0-8 titled 'Seargent of the Occupying Force in Command of Foreign Matters' witht he following PNOMIC delimited text PNOMIC There exists the Seargent of the Occupying Force in Command of Foreign Matters. The same player (other than the Secretary of the Central Committee) may not hold both this and the Secretary for MicroNomic Foreign Affairs. PNOMIC Create a section numbered 1-0-9 titled 'Secretary of the University' with the following CUMLAUDE delimited text CUMLAUDE There exists the Secretary of the University. CUMLAUDE Amend section 6-0-0 to replaces 'Secretary of Friendship' with 'Secretary of Economics'. Amend section 6-0-1 to remove the list item numbered 1, and renumber the remaining items starting with 1. (The above just makes one secretary manage all objects, which is a good thing. I just happened to notice it while doing this reorge, so did it here) Renumber section 2-3-0 to section 1-0-10 Now some cleanup. If rule section 4-2 exists, remove the following text from it, as delimited by GONE GONE Both positions are Secretaries, and none can be held by the same player as the Secretary of Love or each other, unless multiple ones are held by the SoCC. GONE If rule section 7 exists, create the following rule section 1-0-11 titled 'Secretary of Entertainment' with the following GAMES delimited text GAMES There exists the Secretary of Entertainment. GAMES ------------------ 114: Henry Towsner Date: July 4/8, 1998 Create rule 0-5, "Links" and give it the following HTML-delimited text HTML A rule may contain a link to another rule. A link consists of a legitimate rule number enclosed in parenthasies with nothing else in the parenthasies.. When a rule is moved, all links to that rule should change as well. The Secretary of Truth may change where a link points by publicly announcing the change, however the change is invalid if the link does not point at the same content that it originally pointed at. HTML Comment: This is NOT intended to point to essential things that could be messed up if the link is moved. It is intended primarily for reference, as shown in the rest of this proposal. Create Rule 1-10 named "Other Secretaryships" reading as delimited by MOREMOREMORE Other Secretaryships are the Secretary of Friendship (2-0), the Secretary of the Proletariat (2-3-0), the Secretary of Truth (3-1), the Secretary of Justice (3-2-0), the Secretary of Love (4-0), the Assistant Secretary for MicroNomic Foreign Affairs (4-2), the Seargent of the Occupying Force in Command of Foreign Matters (4-2), the Secretary of the University (5), and the Secretary of Economics (6-0-1). MOREMOREMORE If proposal 101 has passed, replace "(4-2)" with "(4-1)" wherever it appears in rule 1-10. If proposal 102 has passed, insert "the Secretary of Entertainment (7), " before "and". Create rule 3-10, named "Other Referenda" reading as delimited by YETMORE YETMORE Other types of Referenda include Papers (5). YETMORE If proposal 101 has passed add ", INPs (4-0-0) and INCFJs (4-0-1)" before the period. If proposal 102 has passed replace the word "and" with a comma and add "and RPGs (7)" before the period. If proposal 105 has passed replace "5" with "5-1". ------------------ 115: Henry Towsner Date: July 4/8, 1998 Replace "obtains" in rule 3-1 with "occured". Change rule 3 to read the same as rule 3-0 and remove rule 3-0. [Those were some minor asjustments I noticed when I was doing this, the actual purpose of the proposal:] In rule 3-1, in step 3 of the instructions for proposal resolution replace "receive fifteen loyalty points" with "receive twenty loyalty points" and replace "ten loyalty points if e is" with "fifteen loyalty points if e is". [The reward for a successful proposal should be bigger than the penalty for a failed one, and non-RP should still get more than RP.] ------------------ 116: JT Traub Date: July 7/8 1998 Amend section 2-2 (The Revolutionary Party) to replace the following RACE delmited text RACE If a player who is not a member of the Revolutionary Party is at least twice as loyal as a member of the Revolutionarty Party, then they may replace that member of the Revolutionary Party by privately notifying the Secretary of Friendship of such a change. RACE with the following WINNER delimited text WINNER If a player who is not a mmber of the Revolutionary Party is at least twice as loyal as a member of the Revolutionary Party, and is more Loyal than all other players who are not members of the Revolutionary Party, then they may replace that member of the Revolutionary Party by privately notifying the Secretary of Friendship of such a change. WINNER ------------------ 117: Towsner Date: July 7/8 1998 Rewrite section 6-0-1 to read as delimited by RETRADE RETRADE Any object that is defined as a tradeable object may be exchanged between players. A player initiates a trade by publicly stating the offer and what if anything is required in return and the type of trade. Unless otherwise specified in the rules objects may only be trade in positive integer quantities and a player may not offer more of an object then they have. A trade may only include tradeable objects. Any player who owns enough of everything required in return may accept the offer publicly. A trade may be either an instance trade or a repeated trade. If the trade is an instance trade then as soon as it is accepted the objects are transfered. When a repeated trade is offered the offering player must also specify under what conditions the trade should occur. Whenever those conditions occur, the trade happens. The conditions for a repeated trade may only involve times and dates, not things happening in the game. RETRADE ------------------ 118: Towsner Date: July 7/8 1998 Replace the second sentence of rule 0-1-0-3 (this is the rule about brackets, and the snetence about judges using them) with "They set legal precedent." Insert after "the spirit of the rules," in rule 3-2-1 with "legal precedent," Replace the second sentence of rule 3-2-1 (about CFJs being the interpretation for the rules) with "CFJs set legal precedent for future CFJs." ------------------ 118: Towsner Date: July 7/8 1998 Replace the first paragraph of rule 3-1 with the following: "Proposals are a subclass of Referenda. The subclass of Proposals has the default properties of a subclass of Referenda, and Proposals have the default properties of Referenda, with the following exceptions: The Accountant of Proposals is the Secretary of Truth. The text of a proposal must explicitly and unambiguously describe one or more changes to the gamestate. A player may not make a proposal unless e has manages of each type of Proposal Commodity. If a player does not manage the materials needed, then e can not make a proposal. The materials are lost by the player constructing the proposal as they are used up in the process. There is an additional state, reactive. The Secretary of Truth may notify any player during the preactive stage of eir proposal if eir proposal conflicts with any other currently preactive proposal, and how e may change eir proposal to conform with the other. The first beginning of a Macronomic Week that occurs after a proposal is created, The Secretary of Truth must distribute that proposal, thereby making it Active. Exactly 5 days after a proposal becomes active or reactive, unless the rules specify otherwise, the proposal becomes inactive. If a proposal would become inactive but less than half of the players have made votes on it other than NONE, the proposal becomes reactive instead. When a proposal becomes inactive without having been retracted, the Secretary of Truth announces all votes and the following steps will be performed by the appropriate officers." In step 1 of rule 3-1 add "or Reactive" after "Active". Add ", Reactive" after "Active" in the paragraph immediately after the instructions in rule 3-1. Add "or reactive" after "Active" in the next paragraph after that. ------------------ 119: Dan Date: July 8/8 1998 Amend "section 3-2-0: Generic Trials" to read in full as delimeted by JUDGES: JUDGES A trial is a subclass of referenda, which may be subclassed further, changing its attributes. The accountant of a subclass of trial is the Secretary of Justice. Only the judge or judges have votes on a trial. A trial has a single judge randomly selected from all players who did not initiate it, are not involved in any way in the trial and have graduated. Valid votes are TRUE and FALSE. If all judges have voted on a trial then it becomes inactive immediately. There are no criteria for the vote. In addition to voting, judges may offer reasoning to support their vote. JUDGES --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 8 20:16:23 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22176 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:16:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 30 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I see no reason for my vote to be particularly private and posting them publically, gives me a chance to comment :) 112: mine 113: mine 114: FOR : I like the rest of what this proposal is attempting to accomplish even though it does some of the stuff I did with 113. My only comment is that it should probably have made links a convention (0-1-0-4) instead. Even so, that's not enough for me to vote against it. 115: FOR 116: mine 117: FOR 118: FOR (there were two 118's posted by Lambda) 118b: AGAINST : I'm only against this because I'm not quite sure what the Reactive stage of the proposals do. Also, the word 'one' was left out of the sentance describing what the player needed to manage to submit a proposal. With that word missing, I don't think it would have the correct effect, and thus I would urge Towsner to retract this proposal. 119: AGAINST: I think the phrasing 'involved in any way' is vague. This is my only real objection however. Commodities for the above proposals have been deducted. All player managed mines have produced. I perform my weekly trade with Townsner and with Lambda. I operate the state mines for a Word. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Thu Jul 9 01:06:22 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23027 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:06:21 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA00857 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663C.002D6284 ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:07:49 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663C.002C479F.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:07:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! X-archive-position: 31 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>JT: 297 + 30 = 327 >>Philo: 244 - 140 = 104 >>Towsner: 216 +40 - 20 = 236 >>Lambda: 313(*) + 24 + 30 - 6 = 361 >>The Kid: 216 + 27 = 243 >>Ember: 74 + 24 = 98 >>Dan: 9 - 140 = 0 > >Actually, I don't think people lost 140. They only lost 120, as I retracted >the other two, and so they don't count. Because of this, Philo has 124, and >can't be ousted by you at 243. You need 5 more points. I do believe that you're right. >ACK! I forgot to say that in my last message. Too late now I guess, except >that I think that you don't really have enough loyalty to oust Philo, so I >announce it now anyways. Ok, the correct new standings are: RP: Lambda: 361 (SoCC) JT: 327 Towsner: 236 Proles: The Kid: 243 (SoP) Philo: 124 Ember: 98 Dan: 0 -- The Kid From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 9 03:35:44 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA23410 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:35:41 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 9 Jul 98 12:02:01 +0200 Message-ID: <35A4959E.47DE582E@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:04:15 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer References: <8025663C.002C479F.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 32 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > Ok, the correct new standings are: > > RP: > Lambda: 361 (SoCC) > JT: 327 > Towsner: 236 > > Proles: > The Kid: 243 (SoP) > Philo: 124 > Ember: 98 > Dan: 0 Congrats Lambda... On another topic, I think JT made a propcomm offer to me. I accept this offer. I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. Happy proposing... Ember From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 9 06:57:31 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA23918 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:57:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: <35A4959E.47DE582E@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 33 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >On another topic, I think JT made a propcomm offer to me. Actually, the offer was to everyone (once per player) since I have a lot more proposal commodities than others. Regardless, you now have the extra 1 word, 2 terms and 2 ideas I offered. >I accept this offer. I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. I'll wait on Dan's acceptance. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 9 07:09:24 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23980 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:09:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:09:23 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! In-Reply-To: <8025663C.002C479F.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 34 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >Lambda: 361 (SoCC) Congratulations Lambda. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 9 07:35:28 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA24075 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:35:26 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 9 Jul 98 16:04:25 +0200 Message-ID: <35A4CE6E.E692CBCB@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 16:06:39 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 35 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net JT schrieb: > On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: > >On another topic, I think JT made a propcomm offer to me. > > Actually, the offer was to everyone (once per player) since I have > a lot more proposal commodities than others. Yep, but most others already accepted. > Regardless, you now have the extra 1 word, 2 terms and 2 ideas I > offered. > > >I accept this offer. I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. (Since Dan has a lot less proposal commodities than others...) > I'll wait on Dan's acceptance. > --JT Ember From Dan2000@usa.net Thu Jul 9 12:59:44 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25094 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:59:40 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.12] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yuMp8-0001lr-00; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:57:47 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980708195130.0069af30@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 19:51:30 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] OOPS! In-Reply-To: <8025663B.002A73E6.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 36 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 08:49 08-07-98 +0100, you wrote: >See the rules, section 3-1, point 4 ("All players who voted NONE on that >proposal will lose ten loyalty points.") There were 14 proposals, and >neither you or Philo had voted in time, so you lose 140 points each. For >you it didn't make much difference cos you only had 9 points to start with. >It pretty much devastated Philo's score though. It happened to me last >round, I lost 50 points cos I forgot to vote. > >-- >The Kid I hate that rule!!! i think it shud be 5 or something. But i can't prepose a change to it as i lack the comodities right now. >:( Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 9 15:29:41 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25511 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:29:39 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.31] (1Cust31.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.31]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09342 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:29:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:34:56 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals X-archive-position: 37 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >118b: AGAINST : I'm only against this because I'm not quite sure what the > Reactive stage of the proposals do. Also, the word 'one' > was left out of the sentance describing what the player > needed to manage to submit a proposal. With that word > missing, I don't think it would have the correct effect, > and thus I would urge Towsner to retract this proposal. It gets gets revoted on. The idea is that if less then half of the players voted on it then it shouldn't pass or fail since not enough people have expressed an opinion, so we try again the next week. As for the word missing, it's missing now, I copied most of that verbatim. We've been playing without a problem so far, and I have a pretty good argument that it still works the way we think it does if a CFJ comes up. I operate the state mines for a word. 112: FOR 113: FOR This sort of does the work of one of my proposals, but it's a good proposal. 116: AGAINST, it should be the Secretary of the Proletariat who takes over 117: AGAINST. JT is right. We're all involved with most things. I like limiting it to graduates though. I'd recommend retracting it and resubmitting with players alowed to decline if they are biased (only for CFJs, NOT for criminal and civil cases) -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 9 15:42:31 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA25609 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:42:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 38 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>118b: AGAINST : I'm only against this because I'm not quite sure what the >> Reactive stage of the proposals do. Also, the word 'one' >> was left out of the sentance describing what the player >> needed to manage to submit a proposal. With that word >> missing, I don't think it would have the correct effect, >> and thus I would urge Towsner to retract this proposal. > It gets gets revoted on. The idea is that if less then half of the >players voted on it then it shouldn't pass or fail since not enough people >have expressed an opinion, so we try again the next week. As for the word >missing, it's missing now, I copied most of that verbatim. We've been >playing without a problem so far, and I have a pretty good argument that it >still works the way we think it does if a CFJ comes up. Based on Towsner's comment, and the fact that the word is indeed missing in the current rules, I change my vote on this to FOR. We should fix that missing word at some point. >I operate the state mines for a word. I'll record this this evening. >116: AGAINST, it should be the Secretary of the Proletariat who takes over For most cases, the way I phrased it and the SoProle will be identical. Only in the case where multiple players have the same score do they differ, and in that case, I don't think either of them should be able to oust the RP member. That was the reason for phrasing it the way I did. >117: AGAINST. JT is right. We're all involved with most things. I likimiting it to graduates though. I'd recommend retracting it and >resubmitting with players alowed to decline if they are biased (only for >CFJs, NOT for criminal and civil cases) I think you meant 119 here since 117 was yours. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 9 17:15:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25942 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:15:42 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.55] (1Cust55.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.55]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10893 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:21:02 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals X-archive-position: 39 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Based on Towsner's comment, and the fact that the word is indeed missing >in the current rules, I change my vote on this to FOR. We should fix that >missing word at some point. I'd recommend that Lambda use an ERROR when he has a chance. It's not particularly urgent though (and the ERROR should end after the proposal finishes). >>116: AGAINST, it should be the Secretary of the Proletariat who takes over >For most cases, the way I phrased it and the SoProle will be identical. >Only in the case where multiple players have the same score do they >differ, and in that case, I don't think either of them should be able to >oust the RP member. That was the reason for phrasing it the way I did. I'd rather it say "SoProle unless another player has the same score" (or even better, the SoProle takes only if e has at least 25 LOYALTY more than the next highest non-RP score). Not enough to vote against though, I change my vote to FOR. Lambda, I know you're busy at the moment, but have you considered automated voting? Scott Goehering (I know I spelled that wrong...) probably still has the scripts he used for NomicLite, you might be able to get those from him and use them as a base for something MN specific. I don't know if you know CGI, but it's pretty easy, and there are plenty of people here who can program. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 9 21:40:14 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27068 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:40:05 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA14460; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA28878; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:39:32 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 00:44:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 40 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > I'd recommend that Lambda use an ERROR when he has a chance. It's >not particularly urgent though (and the ERROR should end after the proposal >finishes). Er, If I read the problem right, it's not something that can be corrected with an ERROR. ERRORs can only move things around, not insert words. > Lambda, I know you're busy at the moment, but have you considered >automated voting? Scott Goehering (I know I spelled that wrong...) >probably still has the scripts he used for NomicLite, you might be able to >get those from him and use them as a base for something MN specific. I >don't know if you know CGI, but it's pretty easy, and there are plenty of >people here who can program. Yes, I have considered automated voting, and proposal submitting, and began learning CGI scripting to do it, but ran into a brick wall because my ISP doesn't support CGI access with my account. Now, I could get it, but it would be $50 per month, and I can't pay that. I am considering getting an account on Illuminati Online, which gives me a web page w/CGI access for $10 per month, and getting rid of the web site service from my ISP, but I dunno. If anyone else can host the web page with CGI scripts, please tell me. By the way, I will get the web site updated soon. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 9 21:43:27 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27097 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:43:25 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA14809; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA00503; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:43:01 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 00:47:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 41 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >118: FOR >(there were two 118's posted by Lambda) >118b: AGAINST : I'm only against this because I'm not quite sure what the > Reactive stage of the proposals do. Also, the word 'one' > was left out of the sentance describing what the player > needed to manage to submit a proposal. With that word > missing, I don't think it would have the correct effect, > and thus I would urge Towsner to retract this proposal. > >119: AGAINST: I think the phrasing 'involved in any way' is vague. This > is my only real objection however. Oops, sorry, I compiled this message after not having slept for 36 hours. I meant it to be 118, 119, and 120, so I'll transfer your votes to those. I'm quite sorry I've been out of it for so long, and then screwed up when I managed to do something. I should have gone on vacation for the past week (I mean in a game sense). --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 9 21:50:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27135 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:50:24 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA15391; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA03741; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:50:01 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 00:54:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 42 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 9 21:51:29 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27149 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:51:27 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA15463; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp0a014.std.com by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA04297; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:50:57 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 00:55:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 43 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I think you meant 119 here since 117 was yours. Actually 120, since I screwed up the numbering in that email. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From Dan2000@usa.net Fri Jul 10 00:14:40 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is2.u-net.net (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA27645 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:14:26 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [195.102.196.146] by serv1.is2.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yuX7D-0002UM-00; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:57:07 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980710080810.00698954@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:08:10 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 44 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 20:16 08-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >I see no reason for my vote to be particularly private and posting them >publically, gives me a chance to comment :) >119: AGAINST: I think the phrasing 'involved in any way' is vague. This > is my only real objection however. > > >--JT I will propose an ammendment next turn if it bothers you that much. Perhaps you can suggest a better phrasing (or amend it yourself?) here are my votes: 112: Loyal, but you havent said what sort of crime prior knowledge is 113: Loyal 114: Loyal 115: Loyal 116: Loyal 117: Loyal, but perhaps it should say "may only involve external events" instaed of "may only involve times and dates"? 118: Loyal, but i'm not to sure about it, i'll let the mrps decide though 118b: Loyal, but ??????? 119: Mine :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Fri Jul 10 00:14:41 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is2.u-net.net (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA27646 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:14:26 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [195.102.196.146] by serv1.is2.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yuX7B-0002UM-00; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:57:06 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980709210539.006a25e4@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:05:39 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: References: <35A4959E.47DE582E@docnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 45 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 06:57 09-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >>On another topic, I think JT made a propcomm offer to me. > >Actually, the offer was to everyone (once per player) since I have >a lot more proposal commodities than others. >Regardless, you now have the extra 1 word, 2 terms and 2 ideas I >offered. > >>I accept this offer. I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. > >I'll wait on Dan's acceptance. > >--JT err, i'm getting a little confused about who has offered me what when and why, but hey, if i don't need to do anything then sure, i accept. And thanks :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 10 01:28:58 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA27954 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:28:56 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA12214 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663D.002EC403 ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:30:48 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663D.002E92E1.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:30:21 +0100 Subject: [MacroNomic] Votes 112 - 120 X-archive-position: 46 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 112: LOYAL 113: LOYAL 114: LOYAL 115: LOYAL 116: LOYAL 117: LOYAL 118: LOYAL 119: LOYAL 120: FOR -- The Kid From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 10 01:45:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28016 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:45:37 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA12290 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663D.00304947 ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:47:24 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663D.002FF35E.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:46:58 +0100 Subject: [MacroNomic] RPG's - A question X-archive-position: 47 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Section 7 of the rules states: "A sub-game may be created through proposal or by submission of a Request for Popular Game (RPG)." It then goes on to detail how to submit an RPG. My question is how do you create a sub-game through proposal? As I understand it, RPG's are completely seperate from the proposal system. Surely this first line should read: "A sub-game may be created by submission of a Request for Popular Game (RPG)." -- The Kid From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 10 04:10:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28412 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:10:36 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA12997 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825663D.003D9A3F ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:12:51 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025663D.003CAF42.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:12:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer X-archive-position: 48 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. > >I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least >one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract >some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? Protoproposal: Create a section 2-0-0-1 and give it the following AWARD delimited text: AWARD Once a player has been active in MacroNomic for a period of at least four consecutive MacroNomic weeks, and has successfully submitted [i.e. it has passed] at least one proposal, then they shall be awarded one proposal mine of a random type. If the player has already obtained one or more mines, then this paragraph shall not take effect. Once a player has been active in MacroNomic for a period of at least eight consecutive MacroNomic weeks, and has successfully submitted at least three proposals, then they shall be awarded one proposal mine of a random type that is not the same type as any mine already held. If the player has already obtained more than one mine, then this paragraph shall not take effect. AWARD -- The Kid From tows@earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 05:33:09 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28631 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:33:07 -0700 Received: from [208.254.20.27] (1Cust27.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.27]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00606 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:32:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980710080810.00698954@pop.amexmail.com > References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:30:31 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals X-archive-position: 49 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>119: AGAINST: I think the phrasing 'involved in any way' is vague. This >> is my only real objection however. > >I will propose an ammendment next turn if it bothers you that much. I realize it can be amended, but it would be so easy to make a CFJ that throws this into chaos that I don't dare vote for it. I suggest you retract it and cut your losses. >117: Loyal, but perhaps it should say "may only involve external events" >instaed of "may only involve times and dates"? I though about something broader, but doing that puts much more work on the SoE. Dates and times are regular (well, usually. I suppose you could make a trade every third full or quarter waxing moon and every prime day with a 7 or 2 in its date, but it seems unlikely.) I wouldn't want to extend this beyond what we're already doing without an OK from JT. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Fri Jul 10 05:33:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28639 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:33:19 -0700 Received: from [208.254.20.27] (1Cust27.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.27]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00757 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:36:31 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer X-archive-position: 50 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least >one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract >some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? We should get rid of mines. You get your commodities back when a proposal passes anyway, instead you should get one extra commodity of your choice when a proposal of yours passes. Newbies get two or three of each type. If commodities get replaced then we have no need of mines. As for attracting new players, we should do that. Anyone have any ideas? What would make you want to join a nomic? >Oops, sorry, I compiled this message after not having slept for 36 hours. I They sucked you into another of those 24 hour plays, didn't they? -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 06:55:05 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA28892 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:55:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:55:04 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] RPG's - A question In-Reply-To: <8025663D.002FF35E.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 51 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >Section 7 of the rules states: >"A sub-game may be created through proposal or by submission of a Request >for Popular Game (RPG)." >It then goes on to detail how to submit an RPG. My question is how do you >create a sub-game through proposal? As I understand it, RPG's are >completely seperate from the proposal system. Surely this first line should >read: >"A sub-game may be created by submission of a Request for Popular Game >(RPG)." No, you could Always create a new rule via proposal. So the wording is redundant, but I wanted it clear that sub-games could in fact still be added via proposal. How would you do it via proposal? you'd do something like Create a new rule numbered section X-Y titled 'Funky New Game' with the following text delimited by GAME GAME The game of Funky New Game is yadda yadda yadda GAME where X-Y is whatever it needed to be to make it a valid descendant of the sub-games section :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 07:00:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28932 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:00:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:00:42 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: <8025663D.003CAF42.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 52 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >Protoproposal: > >Create a section 2-0-0-1 and give it the following AWARD delimited text: >AWARD >Once a player has been active in MacroNomic for a period of at least four >consecutive MacroNomic weeks, and has successfully submitted [i.e. it has >passed] at least one proposal, then they shall be awarded one proposal mine >of a random type. If the player has already obtained one or more mines, >then this paragraph shall not take effect. > >Once a player has been active in MacroNomic for a period of at least eight >consecutive MacroNomic weeks, and has successfully submitted at least three >proposals, then they shall be awarded one proposal mine of a random type >that is not the same type as any mine already held. If the player has >already obtained more than one mine, then this paragraph shall not take >effect. >AWARD A kind of 'odd' side effect of this proposal would be that I could give Dan my mines, immediately get two, do it again, do it again, do it again, etc. I think that's a small flaw (or I could do it with towsner, etc) until we each had one mine of the three types. I think that's a bad side effect and should have some reworking done to fix it :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 07:08:49 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28993 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:08:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 53 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>117: Loyal, but perhaps it should say "may only involve external events" >>instaed of "may only involve times and dates"? > I though about something broader, but doing that puts much more >work on the SoE. Dates and times are regular (well, usually. I suppose >you could make a trade every third full or quarter waxing moon and every >prime day with a 7 or 2 in its date, but it seems unlikely.) I wouldn't >want to extend this beyond what we're already doing without an OK from JT. I would have actually been a bit stricter and said any time or date period as defined by the rules (ie once a year, week, month, day, etc) Those are rule defined (now). Quarter and full moons aren't, but I'm willing to live with it as it is. I can also see other possible conditionals that could be added later as well, and probably would have agreed to something that said 'any publically knowable and verifiable event'. Speaking of which, did the ITA rework pass that made it the SoEcon's job to deal with Internomic Trades? Yes it did (since Lambda has the rules and props page updated, I could check). In that case, I offer the SoEcon job to either Lambda or Towsner if they want it. If neither of the two of them want it, I will offer it to whomever wants it. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 07:15:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29033 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:15:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:15:36 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 54 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least >>one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract >>some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? > We should get rid of mines. You get your commodities back when a >proposal passes anyway, instead you should get one extra commodity of your >choice when a proposal of yours passes. Newbies get two or three of each >type. If commodities get replaced then we have no need of mines. I'd be in favor of this :) (It was nice to try them out. I don't see them working out very well). I'd also make a similar comment about farm acres. If new players cannot get any weight to their vote, they won't stick around. (although, I will note that a vote of loyal without farms still works :) However, their proposals would be more at the mercy of the rest of the game since their own vote for it wouldn't even help. This is a trickier task.. I like the idea of a fixed commodity like the farms. I don't like that new players get shafted (once we have 3 more new ones, the 4th gets no votes). > As for attracting new players, we should do that. Anyone have any >ideas? What would make you want to join a nomic? For me, it's the level of activity, and hearing or seeing about it, as well as the atmosphere of the game. I joined Ackanomic because Slakko had told me about it, then Hubert did and both of them said really good things about it. I joined here because I'd been in the previous incarnation, and the premise was amusing enough to stay. I know that I would not want to be the 4th new player under the current game state however. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 07:54:43 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f23.hotmail.com [207.82.250.34]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29179 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:54:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 9452 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 14:54:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710145403.9450.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:54:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:54:02 PDT X-archive-position: 55 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I'd be in favor of this :) (It was nice to try them out. I don't see them >working out very well). I'd also make a similar comment about farm acres. >If new players cannot get any weight to their vote, they won't stick >around. (although, I will note that a vote of loyal without farms still >works :) However, their proposals would be more at the mercy of the rest >of the game since their own vote for it wouldn't even help. I don't want to totally abandon VFs. How about if we add some ways to get more farms (unanimous proposals?) and add somethig like "borrowed" farms, which you have only as long as you hold a position. For instance instead of getting commodities, the Secretaries could all get variable amounts of vote farms which they lose when they leave the position. New players get 10 VFs when they join, 5 permanent and 5 borrowed which they lose after a month. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 07:56:54 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f75.hotmail.com [207.82.250.181]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29203 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:56:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 9783 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 14:56:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710145615.9782.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:56:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:56:14 PDT X-archive-position: 56 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Speaking of which, did the ITA rework pass that made it the SoEcon's job >to deal with Internomic Trades? Yes it did (since Lambda has the rules >and props page updated, I could check). In that case, I offer the SoEcon >job to either Lambda or Towsner if they want it. If neither of the two of >them want it, I will offer it to whomever wants it. Don't give up the position over that. At the moment all you have to do is reject any trades the 1 other member offers us. I'll handle that for you and propose making a new Secretary to handle that. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 08:09:30 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29290 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:09:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:09:29 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: <19980710145403.9450.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 57 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Henry Towsner wrote: > I don't want to totally abandon VFs. How about if we add some >ways to get more farms (unanimous proposals?) and add somethig like >"borrowed" farms, which you have only as long as you hold a position. >For instance instead of getting commodities, the Secretaries could all >get variable amounts of vote farms which they lose when they leave the >position. New players get 10 VFs when they join, 5 permanent and 5 >borrowed which they lose after a month. *nod* I can see this, and it makes sense. (I like the unanimous proposal bit). Perhaps the legislation could reward some of the past unanimous proposals as well? There have been some (I don't think all that many, but I want to check) Actually, it's possible there havent been any because of people voting none. If you want to draft this (since it was your idea) go ahead, otherwise, i'll draft something up :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 08:11:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29315 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:11:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: <19980710145615.9782.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 58 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Henry Towsner wrote: > Don't give up the position over that. At the moment all you have >to do is reject any trades the 1 other member offers us. I'll handle >that for you and propose making a new Secretary to handle that. Okay.. I will keep the position then. Thanks Towsner. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:02:43 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f87.hotmail.com [207.82.250.193]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29490 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:02:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 29821 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 16:01:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710160159.29820.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:01:59 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Revisions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:01:59 PDT X-archive-position: 59 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I'll propose a combined fix for both VFs and commodities (unless people think they should be separate). I'm thinking 5 VF if everyone votes FOR, 1 if everyone votes FOR or LOYAL, but there should be a few more ways as well. As for the ITA, I'll propose something so that SoE doesn't have to deal with it, but I want to wait until I see if the trade redesign passes, since I have an idea on how to integrate them. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 09:08:25 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29521 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:08:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions In-Reply-To: <19980710160159.29820.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 60 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Henry Towsner wrote: >I'll propose a combined fix for both VFs and commodities (unless people >think they should be separate). I'm thinking 5 VF if everyone votes >FOR, 1 if everyone votes FOR or LOYAL, but there should be a few more >ways as well. Either way.. I think they actually are seperate issues, but wouldn't object to them being bundled. >As for the ITA, I'll propose something so that SoE doesn't have to deal >with it, but I want to wait until I see if the trade redesign passes, >since I have an idea on how to integrate them. *nod* --JT From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 10 09:43:34 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29639 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:43:15 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 10 Jul 98 18:31:02 +0200 Message-ID: <35A6424D.A920CA0C@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:33:18 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions References: <19980710160159.29820.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 61 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Henry Towsner schrieb: > I'll propose a combined fix for both VFs and commodities (unless people > think they should be separate). I'm thinking 5 VF if everyone votes > FOR, 1 if everyone votes FOR or LOYAL, but there should be a few more > ways as well. That would be dealing out farms for almost free... unless someone votes AGAINST on a RP prop instead of LOYAL e doesn't dislike because e wants to prevent farms being dealt out. On the other hand, if there is someone who routinely votes AGAINST, no farms ever will be dealt out. Please think that over again. Ember From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 10 09:44:12 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29648 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:43:50 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 10 Jul 98 17:46:40 +0200 Message-ID: <35A637E6.E2527672@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:48:55 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Attracting new players (was: Propcomm offer) References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 62 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Towsner: > >I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least > >one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract > >some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? > We should get rid of mines. You get your commodities back when a > proposal passes anyway, instead you should get one extra commodity of your > choice when a proposal of yours passes. Newbies get two or three of each > type. If commodities get replaced then we have no need of mines. > As for attracting new players, we should do that. Anyone have any > ideas? What would make you want to join a nomic? I don't think it would work. If you lose 3 comms when a prop fails, but get only one extra if it passes, 75% of your props have to pass to let you survive... quite unlikely for a newbie. If you don't discuss them before you propose them, they probably fail since people don't like them, and if you discuss them, someone else might find a tiny mistake in it, make an almost identical prop and run with the rewards. I think one should get one of each comm each week, or more than one comm reward for those who have few comms, or both. On a related point, I think we should either think up a system that needs different combinations of propcomms for different tasks (e.g. repeals or renumberings need just 1 term, papers 1 idea and 1 word etc.) or, if we don't want that, dump the whole propcomm system. On Vote Farms, I think we should keep the 100 acre limit, but change the way acres are dealt to new players. I was just going to propose the following: Each of us current players loses 3 acres to the state, letting each own 7 acres if no farms are traded. Each new player gets 10%, rounded up, of what is currently owned by the state. This takes away the initial vote equality, but keeps the global limit of 100 acres, and still leaves room for new players. If we 7 stay, the next 5 people would get 6, 5, 4, 4 and 4 acres. Ember From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 09:48:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29688 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:48:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions In-Reply-To: <35A6424D.A920CA0C@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 63 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >That would be dealing out farms for almost free... unless someone >votes AGAINST on a RP prop instead of LOYAL e doesn't dislike >because e wants to prevent farms being dealt out. On the other hand, >if there is someone who routinely votes AGAINST, no farms ever >will be dealt out. > >Please think that over again. That's of course assuming that the RP vote unanimously, which happens (I'll admit) relatively frequently. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 09:58:15 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29737 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:58:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:58:14 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Attracting new players (was: Propcomm offer) In-Reply-To: <35A637E6.E2527672@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 64 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >I don't think it would work. If you lose 3 comms when a prop fails, >but get only one extra if it passes, 75% of your props have to pass >to let you survive... quite unlikely for a newbie. If you don't discuss >them before you propose them, they probably fail since people don't >like them, and if you discuss them, someone else might find a tiny >mistake in it, make an almost identical prop and run with the rewards. >I think one should get one of each comm each week, or more than >one comm reward for those who have few comms, or both. Either that or have some sort of 'soft penalty' whereby a person isn't charged commodities until after they have had 10 props pass (or some other arbitrary number) >On a related point, I think we should either think up a system that >needs different combinations of propcomms for different tasks >(e.g. repeals or renumberings need just 1 term, papers 1 idea and >1 word etc.) or, if we don't want that, dump the whole propcomm >system. I'd certainly like to see comodities used for different things. >On Vote Farms, I think we should keep the 100 acre limit, but change >the way acres are dealt to new players. I was just going to propose >the following: Each of us current players loses 3 acres to the state, >letting each own 7 acres if no farms are traded. Each new player gets >10%, rounded up, of what is currently owned by the state. This takes >away the initial vote equality, but keeps the global limit of 100 acres, >and still leaves room for new players. If we 7 stay, the next 5 people >would get 6, 5, 4, 4 and 4 acres. The problem there is 2 fold. It establishes a secondary class of citizens and it gets worse over time. It eventually hits the same wall as the current system, just further out in time. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 10:19:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f246.hotmail.com [207.82.251.137]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29812 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:19:16 -0700 Received: (qmail 14332 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 17:18:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710171836.14331.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:18:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:18:36 PDT X-archive-position: 65 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >That would be dealing out farms for almost free... unless someone >votes AGAINST on a RP prop instead of LOYAL e doesn't dislike >because e wants to prevent farms being dealt out. On the other hand, >if there is someone who routinely votes AGAINST, no farms ever >will be dealt out. Ah. Good point. 3 VFs for unanimous proposals. There should be one or two other things though. >I don't think it would work. If you lose 3 comms when a prop fails, >but get only one extra if it passes, 75% of your props have to pass >to let you survive... quite unlikely for a newbie. If you don't >discuss them before you propose them, they probably fail since people >don't like them, and if you discuss them, someone else might find a >tiny mistake in it, make an almost identical prop and run with the >rewards. I think one should get one of each comm each week, or more >than one comm reward for those who have few comms, or both. I don't think we should hand out commodities based on time, but I agree that there should be more for new players. How about at the beginning of each week a player who has less than one of each commodity gets filled up to one of each unless they trade away commodities during the previous week. It means that you can always make one proposal/week, but anything more requires passing proposals. >On a related point, I think we should either think up a system that >needs different combinations of propcomms for different tasks >(e.g. repeals or renumberings need just 1 term, papers 1 idea and >1 word etc.) or, if we don't want that, dump the whole propcomm >system. Agreed. How about this: All proposals belong to a class. A "normal" proposal costs one of each commodity and can do anything. A "repealing" proposal costs an idea and can only repeal. A "reorganizing" proposal costs an idea and a word and can move things around and can "insert phrases of up to three words" in a rule. It may not insert phrases between phrases already insert by the proposal. >On Vote Farms, I think we should keep the 100 acre limit, but change >the way acres are dealt to new players. I was just going to propose ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 10:22:34 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f108.hotmail.com [207.82.250.227]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29836 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:22:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 5331 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 17:21:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710172151.5330.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:21:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:21:50 PDT X-archive-position: 66 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >That would be dealing out farms for almost free... unless someone >votes AGAINST on a RP prop instead of LOYAL e doesn't dislike >because e wants to prevent farms being dealt out. On the other hand, >if there is someone who routinely votes AGAINST, no farms ever >will be dealt out. Ah. Good point. 3 VFs for unanimous proposals. There should be one or two other things though. >I don't think it would work. If you lose 3 comms when a prop fails, >but get only one extra if it passes, 75% of your props have to pass >to let you survive... quite unlikely for a newbie. If you don't >discuss them before you propose them, they probably fail since people >don't like them, and if you discuss them, someone else might find a >tiny mistake in it, make an almost identical prop and run with the >rewards. I think one should get one of each comm each week, or more >than one comm reward for those who have few comms, or both. I don't think we should hand out commodities based on time, but I agree that there should be more for new players. How about at the beginning of each week a player who has less than one of each commodity gets filled up to one of each unless they trade away commodities during the previous week. It means that you can always make one proposal/week, but anything more requires passing proposals. >On a related point, I think we should either think up a system that >needs different combinations of propcomms for different tasks >(e.g. repeals or renumberings need just 1 term, papers 1 idea and >1 word etc.) or, if we don't want that, dump the whole propcomm >system. Agreed. How about this: All proposals belong to a class. A "normal" proposal costs one of each commodity and can do anything. A "repealing" proposal costs an idea and can only repeal. A "reorganizing" proposal costs an idea and a word and can move things around and can "insert phrases of up to three words" in a rule. It may not insert phrases between phrases already insert by the proposal. There could also be privaleged rules which cost more to modify (like repealing the RP). RPGs could become a class of proposal which cannot be voted LOYAL upon and cost a term and an idea. >On Vote Farms, I think we should keep the 100 acre limit, but change >the way acres are dealt to new players. I was just going to propose I don't like this so much. I'd rather that new players be given equal chance. Also I think the number of VFs a player has should change over time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 10 11:43:17 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA30070 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:43:13 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 10 Jul 98 20:19:05 +0200 Message-ID: <35A65B9D.FAC266@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:21:20 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions References: <19980710172151.5330.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 67 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Henry Towsner: [snip] > [more than one comm reward for poor players?] by Ember > I don't think we should hand out commodities based on time, but I > agree that there should be more for new players. How about at the > beginning of each week a player who has less than one of each commodity > gets filled up to one of each unless they trade away commodities during > the previous week. It means that you can always make one proposal/week, > but anything more requires passing proposals. Looks good. > >On a related point, I think we should either think up a system that > >needs different combinations of propcomms for different tasks [snip] > Agreed. How about this: > All proposals belong to a class. A "normal" proposal costs one of > each commodity and can do anything. [snip]I think we should discuss this thoroughly. You overused ideas a bit; I think they should be limited to the introduction of new things... for standard-props if they remain, for papers, for RPGs, but not for repeals and reorgs, to keep a balance... > >On Vote Farms, I think we should keep the 100 acre limit, but change > >the way acres are dealt to new players. I was just going to propose > I don't like this so much. I'd rather that new players be given > equal chance. Also I think the number of VFs a player has should change > over time. If you want full equality, you have to drop the concept of the limit. If you want equality within limits, what about reducing each of us to 5 and giving each new player 5 acres as well? Then we'd have room for 13 new players, and we all have equal voting - hurray! I have no problems with players gaining or losing acres, but it shouldn't happen too fast. For example you could gain 1 acre from the state if one or more proposals of yours passes unanimously in the previous week, and lose 1 acre if you didn't vote on any proposal in that week. Ember From towsner@hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 12:01:06 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f119.hotmail.com [207.82.250.172]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30132 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:01:00 -0700 Received: (qmail 452 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 1998 19:00:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19980710190008.451.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:00:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:00:07 PDT X-archive-position: 68 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >[snip]I think we should discuss this thoroughly. You overused ideas a bit; >I think they should be limited to the introduction of new things... >for standard-props if they remain, for papers, for RPGs, but not >for repeals and reorgs, to keep a balance... I was just giving examples, and I agree that we should take our time with this. We'll have to figure out exactly what the catagories which need commodities are, and what the costs should be. However I don't think papers should cost commodities. >If you want full equality, you have to drop the concept of the limit. >If you want equality within limits, what about reducing each of us to >5 and giving each new player 5 acres as well? Then we'd have room for >13 new players, and we all have equal voting - hurray! Definately get rid of the limit. >I have no problems with players gaining or losing acres, but it >shouldn't happen too fast. For example you could gain 1 acre from the >state if one or more proposals of yours passes unanimously in the >previous week, and lose 1 acre if you didn't vote on any proposal in >that week. Fair enough. I don't like the penalty for not voting, since players who don't vote for a week will have enough problems. But 1 acre for a unanimous proposal sounds fine. How about 1 acre is given out every two weeks on some sort of award basis. The player who submitted the most successful proposals, or the one who gained the most loyalty in the last two weeks or something. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 10 12:10:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30173 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:10:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:10:41 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions In-Reply-To: <19980710190008.451.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 69 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Henry Towsner wrote: > Definately get rid of the limit. I agree, get rid of the limit, or else make it much larger for the time being and then re-address it later. >>I have no problems with players gaining or losing acres, but it >>shouldn't happen too fast. For example you could gain 1 acre from the >>state if one or more proposals of yours passes unanimously in the >>previous week, and lose 1 acre if you didn't vote on any proposal in >>that week. > Fair enough. I don't like the penalty for not voting, since >players who don't vote for a week will have enough problems. But 1 acre >for a unanimous proposal sounds fine. How about 1 acre is given out >every two weeks on some sort of award basis. The player who submitted >the most successful proposals, or the one who gained the most loyalty in >the last two weeks or something. I would also like to see wording such that no player may ever manage more than 40% of the total vote farms currently managed by players. (with wording to reduce acreage or whatever should the situation occur through a player leaving or whatever). The reason for this, is if you award vote acres, someone who is consistantly a 'good player' could amass a large quantity of votes and this leads to them amassing more to the point where they could dictate the course of the game unilaterally. I'd rather have a saftey valve in place first that never allows pure dictatorial control. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 10 20:23:34 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31593 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:23:32 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA10004; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA02342; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:23:11 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 23:28:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 70 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I would also like to see wording such that no player may ever manage more >than 40% of the total vote farms currently managed by players. (with >wording to reduce acreage or whatever should the situation occur through a >player leaving or whatever). The reason for this, is if you award vote >acres, someone who is consistantly a 'good player' could amass a large >quantity of votes and this leads to them amassing more to the point where >they could dictate the course of the game unilaterally. I'd rather have a >saftey valve in place first that never allows pure dictatorial control. Well, there already is a rule (Section 2-4-0-0: Winning by Power) such that if they control more than 50% of the vote farms, they win and the vote farms are redistributed evenly among the players. This way, there is no point when a single player has dictatorial control (remember, if they own less than 50%, they can be overthrown by all of the other players unanimously). However, I also think it should be hard to gain acreage, and not something like 5 per unanimous proposal. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 10 20:30:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31632 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:30:06 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA10707; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA05496; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:29:42 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 23:34:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 71 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Speaking of which, did the ITA rework pass that made it the SoEcon's job >to deal with Internomic Trades? Yes it did (since Lambda has the rules >and props page updated, I could check). In that case, I offer the SoEcon >job to either Lambda or Towsner if they want it. If neither of the two of >them want it, I will offer it to whomever wants it. Actually, it didn't. It has been the job of the SoE since Prop 76 (June 16) to deal with IN trades. The big ITA rework failed since Towsner voted FOR, you voted AGAINST, and everyone else voted LOYAL, which changed to AGAINST. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 10 20:33:13 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31658 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:32:54 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA10998; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06742; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:32:27 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 23:37:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 72 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > They sucked you into another of those 24 hour plays, didn't they? No, the party just lasted a LONG time. I'd never have a 24 hour play during my own party. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 10 20:37:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31690 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:37:05 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA11394; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA08949; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:36:42 -0400 Date: 10 Jul 98 23:41:36 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] State Mines From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 73 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I don't think I have used the state mines yet, so I operate them for 1 Term. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 10 20:57:28 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31799 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:57:26 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA12889; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA16914; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:57:05 -0400 Date: 11 Jul 98 00:01:59 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 74 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I have an idea that might work for the reworking of trade and proposal commodities, and fit with the Communist government that we have. Everyone can get whatever they want from the State (with some limit, perhaps). However, if they get from the state more than they contribute, they lose loyalty. Also, if they contribute more than thay take, they may gain loyalty. The way it will actually work is that people will get Credits for doing various things (secretarial psitions, being a professor, winning sub-games, maybe getting proposals passed, etc.). With credits you may buy tradable objects from the State, within some sort of limit. You may convert loyalty into credits, and vice-versa, with some small "tax". We can then get rid of the proposal mines, as everyone can buy their commodities from the State. You still get commodities back if your proposal passes, in the same way as you always have. People can buy vote farms, but they are expensive (and there should be some kind of limit, as there is no infinitely large country). Any thoughts? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 11 00:47:04 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA32422 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:47:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Revisions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 75 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 10 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Well, there already is a rule (Section 2-4-0-0: Winning by Power) such that >if they control more than 50% of the vote farms, they win and the vote >farms are redistributed evenly among the players. This way, there is no >point when a single player has dictatorial control (remember, if they own >less than 50%, they can be overthrown by all of the other players >unanimously). However, I also think it should be hard to gain acreage, and >not something like 5 per unanimous proposal. I'd forgotten about that rule.. That covers my case then :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 11 00:48:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA32437 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:48:07 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:48:07 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] New Proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 76 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 10 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Actually, it didn't. It has been the job of the SoE since Prop 76 (June 16) >to deal with IN trades. The big ITA rework failed since Towsner voted FOR, >you voted AGAINST, and everyone else voted LOYAL, which changed to AGAINST. Well, Towsner agreed to fix it in an upcoming prop anyway :) so I'm not gonna worry about it for the moment. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jreed@itis.com Sat Jul 11 07:01:49 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from portcullis.itis.com (portcullis2.itis.com [209.83.0.132]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA00868 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 07:01:47 -0700 Received: from [209.83.15.205] (a20-13.itis.com [209.83.15.205]) by portcullis.itis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08590 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:01:35 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jreed@pop.itis.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:09:13 -0500 To: mnomic From: Jason Reed Subject: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... X-archive-position: 77 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jreed@itis.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net ...but right now I'm Going On Vacation, as per Section 2-0-2. I'm really not having much time left over after work for the remainder of the summer, but as soon as I leave for college (August 18th) I'm expecting to have a lot fewer time constraints. I mean, like what is there do do? Go to classes, or something? Idunno. Anyway. I hate to tear myself away from such milestone nomic-evolutionary advances such as section 7, but I hope to be back by mid-August. - Philo (Avid player, Macronomic) jreed@itis.com -- http://kyogen.com/pascal/ "[Young lady, ] in this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" - Homer Simpson From lambda@world.std.com Sat Jul 11 12:00:27 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01616 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:00:25 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA10155; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA17602; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:00:10 -0400 Date: 11 Jul 98 15:05:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 78 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >right now I'm Going On Vacation, as per Section 2-0-2. I think that you are currently the Seargent of the Occupying Force or whatever it is called, so you need to name a temp for that position before you can go on vacation. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 11 12:48:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01757 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:48:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:48:38 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: mnomic Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 79 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Jason Reed wrote: >..but right now I'm Going On Vacation, as per Section 2-0-2. I'm really >not having much time left over after work for the remainder of the summer, >but as soon as I leave for college (August 18th) I'm expecting to have a >lot fewer time constraints. I mean, like what is there do do? Go to >classes, or something? Idunno. *grin* >Anyway. > >I hate to tear myself away from such milestone nomic-evolutionary advances >such as section 7, but I hope to be back by mid-August. Depending on if you want to follow any discussions on the list you might want to set yourself vacation there. :) (send mail to listar@dragoncat.net or macronomic-request@dragoncat.net with 'help' on a line in the body :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Mon Jul 13 00:57:57 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08066 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:57:55 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA29316; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256640.002BC2F3 ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:57:59 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: LucFrench@aol.com cc: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256640.002B57FD.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:00:07 +0100 Subject: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? X-archive-position: 80 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Everybody, we have a new player, his name is Luc French, email is LucFrench@aol.com, and his nick for the game is Cul. Cul, the mailing list for the game is at macronomic@dragoncat.net, to subscribe to it send mail to listar@dragoncat.net or macronomic-request@dragoncat.net with 'help' on a line in the body, and it will send you a mail with instructions on how to join. (If I remember correctly, you join my sending a message to macronomic-request@dragoncat.net with 'subscribe' on a line in the body) You currently have 0 loyalty points, along with various other items which other secretaries will advise you about shortly. Welcome to MacroNomic. -- The Kid From Dan2000@usa.net Mon Jul 13 03:10:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08508 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:10:18 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.19] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yvfX9-0006vK-00; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:08:36 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980713110703.0069e77c@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:07:03 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Propcomm offer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 81 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 00:54 10-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >>I also offer Dan 1 Term, 1 Idea and 2 Words. > >I will offer him the same. We need some way for new players to get at least >one mine, or perhaps a welfare system, especially since we want to attract >some more players as Narf, TGW, and AKA TheWiz have left. Any thoughts? thanks for the offer i here by accept all/any outstanding offers that give me something for nothing that i have not already accepted :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Mon Jul 13 03:10:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08509 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:10:19 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.19] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yvfXB-0006vK-00; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:08:37 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980713110533.0069e3b8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:05:33 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 82 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 00:01 11-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >I have an idea that might work for the reworking of trade and proposal >commodities, and fit with the Communist government that we have. Everyone >can get whatever they want from the State (with some limit, perhaps). >However, if they get from the state more than they contribute, they lose >loyalty. Also, if they contribute more than thay take, they may gain >loyalty. > >The way it will actually work is that people will get Credits for doing >various things (secretarial psitions, being a professor, winning sub-games, >maybe getting proposals passed, etc.). With credits you may buy tradable >objects from the State, within some sort of limit. You may convert loyalty >into credits, and vice-versa, with some small "tax". We can then get rid of >the proposal mines, as everyone can buy their commodities from the State. >You still get commodities back if your proposal passes, in the same way as >you always have. People can buy vote farms, but they are expensive (and >there should be some kind of limit, as there is no infinitely large >country). Any thoughts? > >--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) i thought of something similar but i've been away since friday (that's why i didn't retract my prop., sorry) i thought perhaps if a reward system for secretaries is introduced a welfare system for those 'unemployed' ie. without a secretaryship could also be introduced, obviously it would have to be less than the rewards for secretaryship or no one would want one! :) perhaps a reward system for those that propose more than the average rounded up (?) could also be introduced (even though technically it is against communism Stalin rewarded those that worked very hard with better housing and more food rations etc. because if it improved production it was ok in his book) i think that we should have a limit on the amount of vote farms. like Brian sed no country is infinately large, perhaps we could have different quality farms too (no farm is identical to another in reality) and perhaps at a later date we could invade some neighbouring territory and take over more land, obviously there would be a period of unrest when they were first captured when the farms may work at half efficiency or something. Mines would also have to be limited and again captured. perhaps there could be a random element as to whether we succeed in the invasion and if not the state loses some stuff and another random element as to what is gained. i like your ideas too, but there should be a limit so that anyone with a loyalty of 0 cannot just take stuff from the state and not lose anything. perhaps negatives should be introduced with anyone dropping into negative considered an 'enemy of the people' and penalised in someway like limiting them to purchasing only low quality mines and farms (exiled to siberia). perhaps they should only be declared enemies by the SoCC. when they are declared an enemy of the people there loyalty is reset to 20 or something. perhaps if you are declared an enemy of the people three times (?) you are declared an enemy of the people and executed or exiled from the country (?). New players would need to start with about 100 though to give them a chance of surviving. If this was introduced all current players should get an extra 100 loyalty (otherwise i would probably be declared an enemy of the people staight away :) Do you think this is getting to close to reality? Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 06:00:05 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08966 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:00:04 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.234] (1Cust234.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.234]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA06481; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <80256640.002B57FD.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:02:15 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net, LucFrench@aol.com From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? X-archive-position: 83 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Everybody, we have a new player, his name is Luc French, email is >LucFrench@aol.com, and his nick for the game is Cul. Welcome Cul. >You currently have 0 loyalty points, along with various other items which >other secretaries will advise you about shortly. Welcome to MacroNomic. As I recall if we have a shortage of professors, a random RP member becomes the next one. Your advisor is lambda, his email is lambda@world.std.com -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Mon Jul 13 06:00:10 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08973 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:00:08 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.234] (1Cust234.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.234]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06565 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980713110533.0069e3b8@pop.amexmail.com > References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:59:44 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade X-archive-position: 84 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >i thought perhaps if a reward system for secretaries is introduced a >welfare system for those 'unemployed' ie. without a secretaryship could >also be introduced, obviously it would have to be less than the rewards for >secretaryship or no one would want one! :) I'm not sure that's neccessary. Instead we should just have other ways to get rewards which don't depend on being a secretary. >Do you think this is getting to close to reality? It's all interesting, but it seems to be adding all sorts of RL complexity. This is still only a game, we don't have to follow real life. I don't want to limit the number of farms outright, I just don't want it to be possible to gain them easily. As for better and worse farms and so on, it just seems horribly complicated to legislate and worse to track. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 13 07:09:27 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09194 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:09:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:09:27 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 85 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>Everybody, we have a new player, his name is Luc French, email is >>LucFrench@aol.com, and his nick for the game is Cul. > Welcome Cul. Indeed welcome (and I'm only sending this to the list since I could check and see you've already subscribed :) >>You currently have 0 loyalty points, along with various other items which >>other secretaries will advise you about shortly. Welcome to MacroNomic. > As I recall if we have a shortage of professors, a random RP member >becomes the next one. Your advisor is lambda, his email is >lambda@world.std.com Actually, Towsner, unless I missed something (and it's possible I might have) the RP clause only kicked in if there were *no* professors. You are a professor so that doesn't happen. However, it'd probably be a good thing, so I will check the rules later and propose something along that lines if needed. I have allocated Luc his 10 acres of vote farms. I will also offer to give him one of each commodity so that he can begin the game in style. (You will need to acknowledge the trade however Luc) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 13 07:25:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09286 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:25:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 86 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, JT wrote: >Actually, Towsner, unless I missed something (and it's possible I might >have) the RP clause only kicked in if there were *no* professors. You are >a professor so that doesn't happen. However, it'd probably be a good >thing, so I will check the rules later and propose something along that >lines if needed. I did check and in fact proposed something that should fix this problem in the future. For the moment however, Luc doesn't actually have a professor assigned to him. I however, have no objection to Lambda being a faux-professor to Luc, and I'm sure Luc could and should feel free to ask questions of any and all of us. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From towsner@hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 08:15:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hotmail.com (f32.hotmail.com [207.82.250.43]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA09464 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:15:05 -0700 Received: (qmail 28434 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jul 1998 15:14:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19980713151425.28433.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 18.62.6.47 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:14:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [18.62.6.47] From: "Henry Towsner" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Welcome Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:14:25 PDT X-archive-position: 87 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: towsner@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Actually, Towsner, unless I missed something (and it's possible I might >have) the RP clause only kicked in if there were *no* professors. You are >a professor so that doesn't happen. However, it'd probably be a good >thing, so I will check the rules later and propose something along that >lines if needed. JT is right. Although you have no official advisor, feel free to ask any of us questions. Sorry about the confusion.... While we're talking about professors, that last paper was accepted last Thursday. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 13 13:45:11 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10578 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:45:07 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA06445; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA04651; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:44:37 -0400 Date: 13 Jul 98 16:49:35 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Once again, oops. From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 88 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I forgot to remind people that they need to send their votes to me for the current proposals. I need them by the end of today (this new voting period is what's screwing me up). I don't yet have votes from Ember, Cul, or Philo, but Philo's on vacation so he doesn't need to vote. So hurry up and get those votes in. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 13 13:47:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10601 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:47:04 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA06724; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06453; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:46:46 -0400 Date: 13 Jul 98 16:51:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 89 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I did check and in fact proposed something that should fix this problem in >the future. For the moment however, Luc doesn't actually have a professor >assigned to him. I however, have no objection to Lambda being a >faux-professor to Luc, and I'm sure Luc could and should feel free to ask >questions of any and all of us. I will act as his professor until the rules are changed to make it official. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 13 13:47:31 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10613 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:47:29 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA06783; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06879; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:47:13 -0400 Date: 13 Jul 98 16:52:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Welcome From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 90 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > While we're talking about professors, that last paper was >accepted last Thursday. What paper is this? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 13 13:54:03 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10658 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:54:01 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA08191; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA14177; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:53:48 -0400 Date: 13 Jul 98 16:58:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 91 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I will also offer to give him one of each commodity so that he can begin >the game in style. > >(You will need to acknowledge the trade however Luc) He gets 1 of each automatically, as per Section 2-0-0: Joining the Game. I also offer him one of each, though. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 13 14:10:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10719 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:10:07 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 92 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 13 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>I will also offer to give him one of each commodity so that he can begin >>the game in style. >> >>(You will need to acknowledge the trade however Luc) > >He gets 1 of each automatically, as per Section 2-0-0: Joining the Game. I >also offer him one of each, though. Heh.. I proposed that change (if I recall) and I forgot about it :) well, even so.. 2 or 3 sets of commodities is better than 1 :) (I'll update the assets page (http://www.nausicaa.net/~jtraub/macro/assets.html) so that it reflects the fact that he has 1 of each correctly. --JT From jreed@itis.com Mon Jul 13 16:13:14 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from portcullis.itis.com (portcullis.itis.com [209.83.0.27]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11086 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:13:13 -0700 Received: from [209.83.15.43] (a17-43.itis.com [209.83.15.43]) by portcullis.itis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20713 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:12:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jreed@pop.itis.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:20:41 -0500 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Jason Reed Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... X-archive-position: 93 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jreed@itis.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>right now I'm Going On Vacation, as per Section 2-0-2. > >I think that you are currently the Seargent of the Occupying Force or >whatever it is called, so you need to name a temp for that position before >you can go on vacation. JT can have it. ---Philo From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 13 16:58:18 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11275 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:58:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:58:18 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 94 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Jason Reed wrote: >>>right now I'm Going On Vacation, as per Section 2-0-2. >> >>I think that you are currently the Seargent of the Occupying Force or >>whatever it is called, so you need to name a temp for that position before >>you can go on vacation. > >JT can have it. *grin* I don't want it :) Make the SoCC take it :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Mon Jul 13 18:18:43 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11584 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:18:41 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA11080; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA02308; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:18:22 -0400 Date: 13 Jul 98 21:23:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 95 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >*grin* I don't want it :) Make the SoCC take it :) Really, you don't have to do much, as almost nothing is currently happening in Internomic (at least as far as I can tell). all you need to do is send a message there stating that you are PNomic's liason, and then do nothing for a while, since you wont even have to vote (as you wont be a voting member). And when I say nothing is happening, I really mean it. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From LucFrench@aol.com Mon Jul 13 20:10:09 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11905 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:10:07 -0700 From: LucFrench@aol.com Received: from LucFrench@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id SFXFa26167 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:08:57 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <758cc77c.35aacbca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:08:57 EDT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 X-archive-position: 96 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: LucFrench@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I have allocated Luc his 10 acres of vote farms. > >I will also offer to give him one of each commodity so that he can begin >the game in style. > >(You will need to acknowledge the trade however Luc) To quote Rocky Balboa, "Yo." From jtraub@dragoncat.net Mon Jul 13 23:20:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA12409 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:20:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:20:38 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 97 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 13 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>*grin* I don't want it :) Make the SoCC take it :) > >Really, you don't have to do much, as almost nothing is currently happening >in Internomic (at least as far as I can tell). all you need to do is send a >message there stating that you are PNomic's liason, and then do nothing for >a while, since you wont even have to vote (as you wont be a voting member). >And when I say nothing is happening, I really mean it. The problem is, that Internomic thus becomes one more nomic that I need to pay attention to on the off chance that something occurs and familiarize myself with the rules of, etc. That is time that I would rather spend on one of the two nomics (this and Acka) that I'm involved in since time *is* a finite commodity :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 14 00:55:32 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12844 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:55:30 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA13755; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA13584; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:55:04 -0400 Date: 14 Jul 98 04:00:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 98 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >The problem is, that Internomic thus becomes one more nomic that I need to >pay attention to on the off chance that something occurs and familiarize >myself with the rules of, etc. That is time that I would rather spend on >one of the two nomics (this and Acka) that I'm involved in since time *is* >a finite commodity :) Ah, but you don't need to do anything. Since when you join you will be a non-voting member, there is nothing you will be required to do. And given how slowly things seem to occur in Internomic, Philo will be back long before someone gets around to making you a voting member (if at all, since it requires a vote of the current members and I don't think the idea of MacroNomic getting three votes will go over well). As the ASfMFA, I have not had any involvement (besides discussion) since becoming a non-voting member a month ago, and there is nothing I will need to do until I become a voting member, which wont happen for a while, and even then I'll only have to do something if there is a proposal or CFJ, both of which seem pretty rare since I've joined. So don't worry, there is really nothing you will have to do. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 14 01:29:47 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13039 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:29:45 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA14905; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA25473; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:29:19 -0400 Date: 14 Jul 98 04:33:54 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 99 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Here are the results of the last batch of props. I'm updating the website now. I will also release an ERROR tomor... er, later today, to deal with a bunch of problems with placement of various rules. I'l wait on updating the players page until The Kid has calculated the LOYALTY scores. I also operate the state mines for a Term, using the extra one from my SoT position. 112: JT Traub Votes: Lambda: AGAINST [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 113: JT Traub Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 114: Henry Towsner Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 115: Henry Towsner Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 116: JT Traub Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: AGAINST [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 117: Henry Towsner Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 118: Henry Towsner Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 119: Henry Towsner Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: LOYAL (FOR) [10] Cul: NONE [10] Passes 120: Dan Votes: Lambda: AGAINST [10] JT Traub: AGAINST [10] Towsner: AGAINST [10] The Kid: FOR [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: FOR [10] Cul: NONE [10] Fails --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 14 01:41:16 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13091 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:41:15 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA15418; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA00046; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:40:49 -0400 Date: 14 Jul 98 04:45:50 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] UTC From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Fontfamily: Monaco X-Fontsize: 9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-archive-position: 100 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net What is the time difference between UTC and Eastern Time? I'd just like to know so that I know exactly when I'm supposed to do things. By the way, I just noticed that the crime of prior knowledge prop was useless, as I'm now in the RP and criminal crimes cannot be declared against RP members. Just thought I'd point that out. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From atharrison@wavetek.com Tue Jul 14 01:41:52 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13103 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:41:51 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA09416 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256641.002FCD57 ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:42:07 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256641.002FC550.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:44:14 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Update X-archive-position: 101 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net New loyalty scores: Lambda: 361 + 0 = 361 JT: 327 + 30 = 357 Towsner: 236 + 40 = 276 The Kid: 243 + 24 = 267 Philo: 124 + 0 = 124 Dan: 0 + 24 - 10 = 14 Ember: 98 - 90 = 8 Cul: 0 - 90 = 0 -- The Kid From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 14 03:27:25 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is2.u-net.net (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA13379 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:27:22 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.44] by serv1.is2.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yw222-0004yL-00; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:09:58 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980713231127.0069d808@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:11:27 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980713110533.0069e3b8@pop.amexmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 102 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 08:59 13-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >>i thought perhaps if a reward system for secretaries is introduced a >>welfare system for those 'unemployed' ie. without a secretaryship could >>also be introduced, obviously it would have to be less than the rewards for >>secretaryship or no one would want one! :) > I'm not sure that's neccessary. Instead we should just have other >ways to get rewards which don't depend on being a secretary. > there could still be one off rewards like those i suggested in the second paragraph, i'm not proposing that i am right and everyone else is wrong or that "all ways are miiy ways!!" (--Queen of Hearts, Alice in Wonderland) or that we cant encompass many ideas from different people. infact i think that unless the eventual decision is an aculmination of ideas from many people most will become dissatisfied with it (if a bit in a proposal is your idea your unlikely to be against the proposal as much as if you were excluded. i think that as those who have a secretaryship have an extra responsibility and more work to do than us (not you though) simple plain old proles who basically only have to vote . so they should be rewarded for there efforts. >>Do you think this is getting to close to reality? > It's all interesting, but it seems to be adding all sorts of RL >complexity. This is still only a game, we don't have to follow real life. >I don't want to limit the number of farms outright, I just don't want it to >be possible to gain them easily. As for better and worse farms and so on, >it just seems horribly complicated to legislate and worse to track. > >-- >-Henry Towsner i thought i might have been going a bit over the top there, i just got carried away :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 14 03:27:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is2.u-net.net (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA13378 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:27:22 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.44] by serv1.is2.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yw220-0004yL-00; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:09:57 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980713231307.0069d06c@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:13:07 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] Re: stuf 4 luc - origionally - How would I go about becoming a member of MacroNomic? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 103 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 07:25 13-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >I did check and in fact proposed something that should fix this problem in >the future. For the moment however, Luc doesn't actually have a professor >assigned to him. I however, have no objection to Lambda being a >faux-professor to Luc, and I'm sure Luc could and should feel free to ask >questions of any and all of us. > >--JT although some may be more help than others :) (i wont be much help as i only joined recently 2) Dan. /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 06:01:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13798 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:01:34 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.130] (1Cust130.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.130]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16493 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980713231127.0069d808@pop.amexmail.com > References: <3.0.1.32.19980713110533.0069e3b8@pop.amexmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:05:14 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Idea for Trade X-archive-position: 104 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >i think that as those who have a secretaryship have an extra responsibility >and more work to do than us (not you though) simple plain old proles who (Be nice. I do a little extra. Besides, none of my Secretariats get rewards.) >basically only have to vote . so they should be rewarded for there efforts. Isn't that what the loyalty bonuses are? I definately agree that there should be more ways to get rewards, I just think it should involve doing a little extra. Incidentally, papers give a reward, if anyone wants to be a professor... >i thought i might have been going a bit over the top there, i just got >carried away :) It happens to all of us. I once proto-proposed a true economy for Acka. It involved tracking "production" and prices which varied with the economy... -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From tows@earthlink.net Tue Jul 14 06:01:47 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13807 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:01:44 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.130] (1Cust130.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.130]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16610 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:01:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:02:09 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: [MacroNomic] Paper X-archive-position: 105 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Sorry, I set this to the wrong address last week. It's been approved by the RP. Power, Influence, and Government by Professor Henry Towsner It goes without saying that government is about power. Specifically, government is about who controls what goes on in the governed area. This paper will use the term "power" to refer to having (within the structure of a government) a measure control over a particular topic. However there is another factor inwho controls decisions. People who are older, or more experienced, or wiser, are often given more respect than other people. For example in MacroNomic, we wisely pay special attention to the members of the Revolutionary Party, since we know that they have earned their positions. As a real life example, the British monarch has virtually no legal authority, but her opinion is widely respected anyway. This could be termed "influence." The matter is far more complicated than this however. In the American government, each person has (roughly) the same power, since everyone elects people equally (there a some discrepancies due to disctricing which I will ignore in this paper.) Does the President have more power than a regular citizen? In a sense no, because he is elected by everyone equally. In this way he has a great deal of influence, but no additional power. However the President's influence is clearly on a different scale than a member of the Revolutionary Party, since a great deal more effort is needed to ignore the President's will than is needed to depart from the suggestions of a Party member. (This demonstrates how well MacroNomic has stuck to its democratic principles while still listening to its wise members.) So in fact power and influence are the ends of a scale. At 100% power, a person's power is undeniable. At 0% power, it is only advice, which the person has no ability to enforce. The President lies close to the power end, since although his decisions are preventable, it is difficult. A cabinet member is close to influence, but they still have a great deal of control over their realm. By contrast a Presidential advisor is entirely influence, since all they can do is advise. Let us back up for a moment and clarify a few terms. A person has some measure of authority over the government that rules them. In fact this is, in a sense, the sum of several "roles" they may play within that government. Each role has several scales. There is the power-influence scale, which we can call "control." There is the scope of the role, its range, and also its dilutedness. The President has three roles. As a citizen of a state, he has pure power, a scope the percentage of people's lives the state controls, a range of the percentage of all people in the nation affected, and a dilutedness of the population of the state. His second role is as a citizen of the nation, in which he still has pure power, has a larger scope and range, but a larger dilutedness. His third role, as President, is much less power, a substantial scope, a huge range, and no dilutedness. In terms of numbers, we could multiply the percent on the contol scale by the scope (which can be broken down into the number of people and the percent of those people's lives controled) and dividing by the number of people. Next we can calculate the President's authority. First we need some simple assumptions. We can assume that the state controls 25% of a persons life and the Federal government another 50%. Let us also say that the President's controls 1/3 of the Federal government. At the state level, the President has authority of slightly over 0.25/Pop. U.S. (100% power X 25% of people's lives X the population of Arkansas / the population of the U.S. / the voting population of Arkansas). Although the number of people who can vote in Arkansas is not the same as the total population, we will assume it is. At the national level the President receives 0.5/Pop. U.S. for his voting ability. As President he receives (let us estimate) 80% power X 50%/3 range X 100% of the population of the U.S. / 1. That's about 0.13. Note how much larger it is than the autority of a typical citizen. In fact some additional authority could be added since the President's opinion on legislative matters, while not binding, is important, and he does have some ability to carry it out. That would be something like 10% power, 50% range, everyone, and about 500 dilutedness (since this power is diluted over the members of Congress.) That adds another 0.001. A similar analysis could be used on anyone, but I will apply it to the most relevant place, MacroNomic. If we estimate 10 players, each player has, to start with, 100% power of 100% of the same number of lives that can vote. That makes 0.1 for each person. Actually, that isn't quite 0.1. The typical voter's authority is limited by the veto power of the RP, as well as a few other factors to be discussed later. That should be about 75%, so 0.075 authority for the typical player. A member of the Revolutionary Party has 100% power over 10% of those lives. So each RP member has an additional 0.033 authority. Finally, the Secretaries. The Secretaries have a substantial (perhaps 60%) power over their jurisdiction, however even the largest (SoT) is perhaps only a few percent range, let us say 5%. So no Secretariship is worth more than 0.03. On top of that, with varying other, relatively minor, factors (influence from experience, or just being in the RP, being a professor) a player could get as much as 0.05 additional from Secretaries and miscellaneous. So the authority range is MacroNomic is from 0.075 to 0.16 (approximately). Let us add one final term. The Democraticness of a government is the authority of its most authoratic member minus the authority of its least authoratic member, perfect democracy being 0. The Democraticness of a dictatorship is close to 1, but not quite. No one has truly 0 authority because there is always an ability to rebel, go on a murderous rampage, or something along those lines. For convenince, we will pretend that everyone in America can vote, although of course this is far from true. Note that a person has the same authority whether or not they choose to vote. In the U.S. the democraticness is roughly 0.13. MacroNomic has a democraticness of around 0.085, about 40% more democratic than the U.S.. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Tue Jul 14 07:00:58 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA13994 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:00:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Ah'll be back... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 106 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 14 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Ah, but you don't need to do anything. Since when you join you will be a >non-voting member, there is nothing you will be required to do. And given >how slowly things seem to occur in Internomic, Philo will be back long >before someone gets around to making you a voting member (if at all, since >it requires a vote of the current members and I don't think the idea of >MacroNomic getting three votes will go over well). As the ASfMFA, I have >not had any involvement (besides discussion) since becoming a non-voting >member a month ago, and there is nothing I will need to do until I become a >voting member, which wont happen for a while, and even then I'll only have >to do something if there is a proposal or CFJ, both of which seem pretty >rare since I've joined. So don't worry, there is really nothing you will >have to do. Regardless, I still do not wish the position. Please respect this. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Tue Jul 14 07:06:20 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA14037 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:06:20 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] UTC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 107 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 14 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >What is the time difference between UTC and Eastern Time? I'd just like >to know so that I know exactly when I'm supposed to do things. By the >way, I just noticed that the crime of prior knowledge prop was useless, >as I'm now in the RP and criminal crimes cannot be declared against RP >members. Just thought I'd point that out. As for the time zone difference, I believe that UTC == GMT (but I could be wrong) so the time difference between easter and GMT/UTC would be Eastern + 4 hours = GMT. As for the prior knowledge thing, yeah well :) You won't be in the RP for ever (probably none of us will :)n --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Tue Jul 14 07:13:56 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA14078 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:13:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Update In-Reply-To: <80256641.002FC550.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 108 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net The assets page has been updated with the commodities earned for the accepted proposals. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From Dan2000@usa.net Tue Jul 14 11:47:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15028 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:47:18 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.62] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yw9gC-0000Na-00; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:19:56 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980714113245.0069ddd4@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:32:45 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] UTC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 109 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 04:45 14-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > ?????? >What is the time difference between UTC and >Eastern Time? I'd just like to > >know so that I know exactly when I'm supposed to do things. >--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) i asked that a while ago and nobody would tell me, i think that secretly no one knows :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Wed Jul 15 10:13:14 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA19537 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:13:07 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.57] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ywV5q-00076W-00; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:11:53 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980715123608.006a0210@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:36:08 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] y did he join? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 110 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Hi Luc, Welcome to macronomic. I was wondering what made you want to join? Not that you made the wrong choice, but we have been trying to work out how to attract more players. Perhaps you can help. Dan ps. I joined this nomic because i was curious about the communist side of things. /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Wed Jul 15 12:46:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19972 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:46:28 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Wed, 15 Jul 98 21:36:46 +0200 Message-ID: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:39:03 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 111 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Here's a first draft for a subgame. Unfortunately, the rules are quite long (a bit over 100 lines). It's not too complicated though. Let me know why you don't like it. Ember Breaking Away Name and required number of players: At least 4 players are required for playing Breaking Away, which is a bicycle race game. [Actually, this is a simplified version] The team and the riders: Each player has a team, originally named after a colour which e is free to choose unless another player already took it, of 4 riders, originally named A, B, C and D. E may give the team and the riders additional aliases unless they are already taken or the Secretary of Entertainment protests against the choice of aliases. However, teams and riders always keep their original name and colour to identify them. Together with the intention to join, a player must distribute condition cards to eir 4 riders, with the following requirements: a) Each rider gets 3 cards, A may get 4 if the player chooses so. b) There are 15 cards with unique values from 1 to 15, undistributed cards are discarded after the distribution. c) The sum of the values of a rider A's cards may not be greater than 30. For B this number is 25, for C 20, and for D 16. The course: The standard course for a game is 125 fields long. The Secretary of Entertainment may choose a different course, within 75 and 200 fields in length, inclusive, when e calls for players for the game. The game and the rounds: At the beginning of the game, all riders are at field 0. Each round, a player has three options for each of its riders: to ride, to sprint or to stop. To ride, the player takes one of this rider's cards and moves this rider as many fields forwards as the value of said card was. To sprint, the player takes two cards instead of one. To stop, the player takes one card, but doesn't move that rider forwards. Groups and new condition cards: At the end of each round, the riders are found in groups. A group consists of riders on fields with consecutive numbers (riders on fields 12,13,14,14,16,16,17 are two groups since no rider was on field 15); whether this riders belong to one or more players doesn't matter. The distance between two groups is equal to the number of empty fields between them. Then each rider which didn't stop gets a new condition card with a value of three (the base) plus the number of riders in the group on higher field numbers (e.g. if there is a group with riders on fields 23,23,22,21,21 and 20, the two riders on field 23 each get 3, the one on 22 gets 5, the two on 21 get 6 each, and the one on 20 gets 8). However, if a rider would get a card with a value greater than 20, e gets a card with a value of 20 instead. The value three as base can be higher if a group is breaking away. If 1/2 or more of all riders come after the end of a group, the base for this group is 4, if the number is 2/3, the base is 5, for 3/4 it's 6, for 4/5 it's 7, and so on up to 20. However, if the sum of the base for the next group and the distance between the groups is smaller, the base is lowered to this value instead. (E. g. if there are 16 riders as follows: F on field 20, G and H on field 16, I and J on field 14, and all other riders in the same group as I and J. Then the base for the I-J-group is 3. For G and H it could be 7, but they didn't break away far enough: the base for the next, the I-J-group (3), plus the number of empty fields (1) is just 4, so 4 is the base for G and H. For F, the base could be 18, since F broke away from 15/16 of the riders, but the base is lowered to 7 since this is the sum of base for the next group (4) plus the number of empty fields between 16 and 20 (3). As one can see, breaking away gives profits, but only if you break away far enough.) Each rider which stopped gets a new condition card with value 3 (stopping is only useful if it helps another rider into a group, which would otherwise lose contact to the rest of the field). Crossing the finish line: When a rider reaches a field with a number equal or greater than the course's length it crosses the finish line. If two or more riders cross the finish line within a round, which crossed the finish line first is determined as follows: a) higher field number in the round before crosses the line first; b) if it cannot be decided by a), higher field number in the round when the line is crossed crosses the line first; c) if it cannot be decided by b), the riders cross the line together. Each rider gets points depending on when e crossed the finish line. The first gets 10/2 (5) points, the next 10/3, then 10/4 (2.5), and so on. If riders cross the line together, each gets the greater number of points, while nobody gets the smaller number(s). (E.g. following players cross the finish line in this order: F, then G, then H, I and J together, then K. Then F gets 10/2, G 10/3, H, I, and J each 10/4, nobody 10/5 and 10/6, and K gets 10/7) Team scores and winning: The sum of the points the riders of a team get is that team's score in this game of Breaking Away. If one team has a score greater than any other team's score, that player wins the game. If two or more teams have an equal highest score, then it counts whose rider came in first. If those teams' first riders crossed the finish line together, then the second riders are compared, and so on. If still no decision can be reached which player wins the game, no player does. From tows@earthlink.net Wed Jul 15 16:45:53 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20895 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:45:27 -0700 Received: from [168.191.54.139] (sdn-ar-001mabostP249.dialsprint.net [168.191.54.139]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23213 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:49:40 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away X-archive-position: 112 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Here's a first draft for a subgame. Unfortunately, the rules >are quite long (a bit over 100 lines). It's not too complicated >though. Let me know why you don't like it. I vote against. I don't mind the idea, there are just a few problems: \/ >At least 4 players are required for playing Breaking Away, and a referee >Each player has a team, originally named after a colour >which e is free to choose unless another player already >took it, of 4 riders, originally named A, B, C and D. >E may give the team and the riders additional aliases >unless they are already taken or the Secretary of >Entertainment protests against the choice of aliases. or the alias is already taken. The SoEnt could abuse this. >The standard course for a game is 125 fields long. The >Secretary of Entertainment may choose a different >course, within 75 and 200 fields in length, inclusive, >when e calls for players for the game. In this and other areas you should use a referee instead of the SoEnt. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From LucFrench@aol.com Wed Jul 15 19:35:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21503 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:35:57 -0700 From: LucFrench@aol.com Received: from LucFrench@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id SJUEa04520 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:34:42 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <70045c9f.35ad66c3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:34:42 EDT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Why did he join? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 X-archive-position: 113 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: LucFrench@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net [Question about why I joined.] I was looking for a fairly simple nomic, to introduce myself. Macro seemed to combine simpler concepts with a better structure, so I decided to try it out. Thanks Luc French From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 16 01:25:50 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22623 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:25:44 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA22239; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 04:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA24263; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 04:25:08 -0400 Date: 16 Jul 98 04:30:05 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] More Updates! From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 114 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Here are the current props. They'll be up on the web page soon. If I give any reasons for voting/submitting a proposal the way I did, it is after that proposal. 121: JT Traub Date: July 13/15, 1998 Modify Section 5-0 paragraph three to read as follows delimited by PROF PROF If at any time there are no non-teaching Professors, then the members of the Ruling Party who are not Professors shall become Acting Professors. If all members of the RP are already Acting Professors or Professors and there are no non-teaching Professors, then one prole chosen at random who is not a student shall become an Acting Professor. An Acting Professor has all of the duties and responsibilities of a Professor. If there are ever any non-teaching Professors then the following occurs. All non-teaching Acting Professors lose their Professorship immediately. All teaching Acting Professors lose their Professorship when their current student graduates. PROF This basically moves the choice of acting professorship earlier instead of waiting until it's needed. It also cleans up the language slightly. Append the following sentance as delimited by PAPER to the end of the last paragraph of Section 5-1: PAPER The default vote for a player who submitted the Paper is FOR. PAPER This was for some reason at the end of the professorship rule. Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: FOR [10] Towsner: NONE [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] 122: Henry Towsner Date: July 13/15, 1998 Alter section 6-3 to read as follows: " Macronomic is an industrialized nomic. The state owns all Proposal Commodities, but individual players may manage them. There exist three types of Proposal Commodities: Ideas, Words, and Terminologies. Terminologies may be abbriviated 'Terms'. All types of Proposal Commodities are Phyiscal Objects. If at the beginning of a MacroNomic week a player has fewer than one of each proposal commodity and did not trade away any commodities in the previous week, then that player receives one commodity of each type they do not own. " Rename section 6-3 to "Proposal Commodities" Create rule 6-3-0, named "Vouchers and the State Mines" and make it read " There exist the State Mines, from which come all three types of Proposal Commodities. The State Mines are not, nor can be managed by any player. A player may only use the State Mines if e manages a Voucher. A Voucher is a physical commodity. If a player manages a voucher, e may publicly use the state mines by saying what type of commodity e wishes to get. E will receive one of that type of commodity and the voucher is destroyed. Any player may once a week receive a voucher and lose 15 LOYALTY be publicly declaring eir wish to do so. " Add the following to the end of rule 2-2 " At the beginning of each week each member of the RP receives one voucher. " After "receive one of each type of Proposal Commodity" in rule 3-1, add " and a voucher". If proposal 113 failed, do not follow the remaining instructions, otherwise do: Replace the last paragraph of rule 1-0-2 with "The Secretary of Truth receives an additional Voucher at the beginning of each week." Replace the last paragraph of rule 1-0-3 with "The Secretary of Friendship receives an additional Voucher at the beginning of each week." Replace the last paragraph of rule 1-0-6 with "The Secretary of Economics receives an additional Voucher at the beginning of each week." Votes: Lambda: AGAINST [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] I voted against this for three reasons. First, it doesn't fix the situation of new players being able to make proposals (If their first prop fails, they're still out of luck unless people donate commodities). Second, it contributes to the tangle of various kinds of object that there are without doing anything to straighten it out. And third, I am drafting a much bigger proposal that will essentially wipe out what this does and a lot of the current object system for one that is much cleaner, and does address the above problems. 123: Henry Towsner Date: July 13/15, 1998 Amend rule 2-4-0-2 to read " Whenever a player wins a sub-game as defined in Section 7, if the game had at least 4 players e recieves a Victory Token. If a player own 6 Victory Tokens and owns more Victory Tokens than anyone other player then that player becomes a Winning Player and all Victory Tokens are destroyed. " Renumber 6-0 to 6. Renumber 6-0-0 to 6-0. Relocate 6-0-2 to 6-1. Relocate 6-0-1 to 6-0-0. Relocate 6-1 to 6-0-0-0. Relocate 6-2 to 6-0-0-0-0 and 6-3 to 6-0-0-0-1. Create rule 6-0-1 named "Victory Tokens" and reading as follows: " Victory tokens are recorded by the Secretary of Entertainment. Victory tokens are destroyed when eir owner leaves the game. Victory tokens may not be transfered from one player to another in any way. " Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] 124: Henry Towsner Date: July 13/15, 1998 "Create rule 7, "Subgames" Create rule 7-0, "Subgamers" and give it the following METAPLAYER-delimited text METAPLAYER A Subgamer is someone who can play in a subgame. A Subgamer must have an alias and an e-mail address. All players of MacroNomic are subgamers. All players of gaming nomics are Subgamers. A subgame may define a parallel subgame in a gaming nomic. If the statement that another subgame is parallel includes a date then the subgames are only parallel if the parallel subgame has not been changes since the specified date. A player of MacroNomic may join any subgame in a gaming nomic unless they have an avatar already playing in the game if it is permitted by the rules of that nomic and the game has a parallel in MacroNomic. The MacroNomic player will play the game according to MacroNomic rules. A player from a gaming nomic may join a MacroNomic game unless they have an avatar already playing in the game and there is a parallel game in their nomic, but must play according to the rules of their own nomic. Ackanomic is a gaming nomic. METAPLAYER Create rule 7-1, "RPG" and give it the following D&D-delimited text D&D A sub-game may be created through proposal or by submission of a Request for Popular Game (RPG). An RPG is a sub-type of Referenda and the Accountant for RPGs is the Secretary of Entertainment. An RPG must define the following lettered items in order to be a valid RPG. a) The name of the game. b) The number of players. c) The rules of the game. d) A method for determining the winner of an instance of the game. If an RPG is submitted to the Secretary of Entertainment that is not valid as above, the Secretary must notify the submitting player and shall not distribute the RPG, otherwise, the RPG shall be distributed within 3 days. The legal votes for an RPG are YES and NO. All player's votes on an RPG are initially set to NO. When an RPG becomes inactive, if more players have voted YES than have voted NO then the RPG is accepted. When an RPG is accepted it becomes a child of rule 7-3 with the smallest available final section number. D&D Create rule 7-2, "Subgame Definitions" and give it the following GAGA-delimited text GAGA A subgame may only specify information to be sent privately, personally, or playfully. Information which is sent playfully must be sent to an authorized "game-related" mailing list. The macronomic@dragocat.net mailing list is an authorized game-related list, as is acka-games@muppetlabs.com. GAGA Create rule 7-3, "Subgames" and give it the following DETAILS-delimited text DETAILS Descendants of this rule defer to all rules which are not descendants of this rule. Descendants of this rule may not modify anything not defined in a descendant of this rule unless specifically permitted by a rule which is not a descendant of this rule. Descendants of this rule are known as "Subgame Definitions". DETAILS Insert in rule 3-3 after "rename rules," "alter the text of a child of rule 7-3" Create rule 2-0-3, "Avatars" to read as delimited by FACELESS FACELESS Two players of two different nomics are Avatars if they are the same real life person. For the purposes of MacroNomic, two players are Avatars if they have the same e-mail address or it is determined seperately that they are the same real life person. FACELESS Create rule 3-2-2-1-1, "Impersonation" to read as delimited by NAUGHTY NAUGHTY It is a civil crime against all players of a subgame to participate in a subgame in which an avatar is also participating. NAUGHTY Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: FOR [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] 125: Dan Date: July 13/15, 1998 Amend "section 3-2-0: Generic Trials" to read in full as delimeted by JUDGES: JUDGES A trial is a subclass of referenda, which may be subclassed further, changing its attributes. The accountant of a subclass of trial is the Secretary of Justice. Only the judge or judges have votes on a trial. A trial has a single judge randomly selected from all players who did not initiate it, are not the defendant or defendants (if the crime was commited by more than one person), are not the accuser, and have graduated. Valid votes are TRUE and FALSE. If all judges have voted on a trial then it becomes inactive immediately. There are no criteria for the vote. In addition to voting, judges may offer reasoning to support their vote. JUDGES Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: NONE [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: FOR [10] Cul: NONE [10] 126: Lambda Date: July 15/15, 1998 Move Section 1-10 to 100000-0. Move Section 1-0 to Section 1. Remove all siblings of Section 1-1 besides Sections 1-2, 1-3, 1-6, and 1-10. Renumber these remaining Sections to be in order, beginning with 1-0. Move Section 100000-0 to Section 1-10. Remove "the Secretary of Friendship (2-0), the Secretary of the Proletariat (2-3-0), the Secretary of Truth (3-1), " and ", and the Secretary of Economics (6-0-1)." from Section 1-10. Insert at the end of the first paragraph of Section 1-1 "(3-1)". Insert at the end of the first paragraph of Section 1-2 "(2-0)". Insert at the end of the first paragraph of Section 1-3 "(6-0-1)". Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: NONE [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] This just fixes up the Secretarial stuff. I don't really like having 10 sections which say essentially nothing, so it compacts all of that. 126: Lambda Date: July 15/15, 1998 Insert between the second and third sentence of Section 2-0-2 (Vacation) the following sentence: "If a player does not specify a temporary Secretary for one of eir Secretarial positions, then the Secretary of the Central Comittee becomes the temporary Secretary for that position." Votes: Lambda: FOR [10] JT Traub: NONE [10] Towsner: NONE [10] The Kid: NONE [10] Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation Ember: NONE [10] Dan: NONE [10] Cul: NONE [10] A slight fix which makes it so people can go on vacation quickly, without arguments about who gets the position. (BTW, I accept the position if Philo offers it to me.) --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 16 07:31:15 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23553 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:31:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:31:14 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 115 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I will take care of charging the proposal commodities for these submissions shortly as well as weekly production and weekly trades. In the meantime, I will vote and comment. 121: mine 122: FOR > If at the beginning of a MacroNomic week a player has fewer than >one of each proposal commodity and did not trade away any commodities in >the previous week, then that player receives one commodity of each type >they do not own. Contrary to Lambda's objection, the following paragraph above does in fact keep new players able to submit at least one proposal a week assuming they haven't been trading. if they are a new player (or even an old player who's run out of stuff :) My only objection would be that it should read 'did not trade away any commodities of that type' instead of 'any commodities' since if I have excess words and no ideas and I trade a word I now won't get an idea. However, it's good enough and does solve the problem in the short run. Even knowing that Lambda has a more comprehensive proposal in mind is not enough to prevent a stop-gap from being applied since Lambda's larger proposal is not guarenteed to pass. I also like that it cleans up the use of state mines. It also lets me save up vouchers that I own so that if a player runs out of commodities they can then redeem vouchers as necessary without forcing me to do it immediately. 123: FOR - I think this and 124 could have been lumped together, but I also understand why they are seperate. 124: FOR 125: FOR - much better phrased this time around Dan. 126: AGAINST - I did them as seperate sections so that if they got different rewards or whatever then that could be changed cleanly. I like definitions of entities to be distinct as well. 126b: FOR - I assume this is really 127, but, it was distributed as 126 as was the previous one :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From LucFrench@aol.com Thu Jul 16 08:42:54 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23786 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:42:51 -0700 From: LucFrench@aol.com Received: from LucFrench@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id SNXAa04521 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:41:56 EDT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 X-archive-position: 116 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: LucFrench@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 121. LOYAL 122. FOR 123. Against 124. LOYAL 125. LOYAL 126. LOYAL 127. FOR 128. FOR From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 16 09:30:02 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23985 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:30:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Weekly commodities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 117 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net The assets page will be up shortly. The SoEcon recieved a Word as their random commodity for the week. The SoFriendship recieved a Term as theirs. I operate the State Mines for a Word. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 16 09:33:49 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24011 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:33:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away In-Reply-To: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 118 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Frank Schmidt wrote: >Here's a first draft for a subgame. Unfortunately, the rules >are quite long (a bit over 100 lines). It's not too complicated >though. Let me know why you don't like it. [draft of breaking away deleted] I like it overall (modulo the comments already made by Towsner). I think that the language could be cleaned up quite a bit so that it read more smoothly. Other than that, I don't see any reason not to agree to it. If you clean it up either submit it as a proposal or an RPG :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 16 09:34:11 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24020 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:34:08 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 16 Jul 98 17:24:30 +0200 Message-ID: <35AE1BB6.39F38B8C@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:26:47 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 119 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 121: LOYAL, 122: LOYAL, 123: LOYAL, 124: LOYAL,125: FOR, 126: AGAINST, 127: LOYAL Ember From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 16 10:34:22 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24314 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:34:11 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 16 Jul 98 19:03:39 +0200 Message-ID: <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:06:00 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 120 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Maybe a test game outside the rules would be fine to check for misunderstandings and reword the subgame rules in a shorter and clearer way. I offer to be referee for this test game. Step 1: Each player chooses a unique colour, and gets four riders of this colour, named A, B, C and D. Step 2: Each player gets a pack of 15 condition cards with unique integer values between 1 and 15, inclusive. E then divides them under eir riders, with B, C and D getting 3 cards and A 3 or 4 cards, so that the total value of A isn't greater than 30, for B this number is 25, for C 20, and for D 16. Unused cards are discarded. (Step 3: All riders are on field 0, the race begins. The course is 125 fields long.) There are two ways of benefitting: slipstream and breaking away. Slipstream means one or more riders is on the field directly in front of a rider, or directly in front of them, or... The rider profits from all riders in such a chain in front of em, as long as this chain isn't broken by an empty field in between. Breaking away means most of the field is behind a group (of 1 or more riders). The larger the distance between the group which broke away from the rest and the next group, and the larger the part of the field which is behind the group, the greater is the bonus for each rider in such a group. Who would like to play in this test game? Ember (offering to be referee) From Dan2000@usa.net Thu Jul 16 13:10:04 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25364 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:09:57 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.53] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ywuKL-0000xw-00; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:08:29 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980716210733.0069d8e8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:07:33 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 121 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 07:31 16-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >125: FOR - much better phrased this time around Dan. >--JT Thankyou :) Here are my votes: 121. Loyal 122. Loyal 123. Loyal 124. Loyal 125. Mine :) 126. Loyal 126b/127. Loyal I'm a very loyal person :P Dan ps. Luc has somehow managed to come up with a prop. numbered 128 and has voted loyal on mine (i wish he could :) he may also prefer to vote loyal on 122,123 and 127. /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 16:28:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26340 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:28:03 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.59] (1Cust59.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.59]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10753 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:27:23 -0400 To: MacroNomic From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! X-archive-position: 122 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >121: FOR 122: >I voted against this for three reasons. First, it doesn't fix the situation >of new players being able to make proposals (If their first prop fails, >they're still out of luck unless people donate commodities). Second, it Did you not see that clause, or do you not think that it works? >contributes to the tangle of various kinds of object that there are without >doing anything to straighten it out. And third, I am drafting a much bigger I'm not sure what tangle you're talking about. We'll only have three objects. 123/124: I know these are both about games, but I don't think they're the same proposal. Each is totally independant of the other (not that you shouldn't vote FOR both of them:) 125:FOR!! Very nice. 126: FOR >This just fixes up the Secretarial stuff. I don't really like having 10 >sections which say essentially nothing, so it compacts all of that. Agreed. Each list should have one section at the end devoted to things found elsewhere. 126(127?): FOR. There's another clause I'll add if it passes though. -- -Henry Towsner Success is the child of audacity. -Benjamin Disraeli From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 16 16:37:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26396 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:37:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: MacroNomic Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 123 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >126: FOR >>This just fixes up the Secretarial stuff. I don't really like having 10 >>sections which say essentially nothing, so it compacts all of that. > Agreed. Each list should have one section at the end devoted to >things found elsewhere. Truthfully, I'd rather see the definitions of the secretarial jobs/responsibilites all moves to hear and leave them seperate. It makes the rules easier to read and better organized. The reason most of those are blank is that right now those secretaries didn't really have any documents they maintained or such. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 16 19:38:30 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27160 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:38:22 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA03693; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA01586; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:37:50 -0400 Date: 16 Jul 98 22:42:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 124 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > Did you not see that clause, or do you not think that it works? Oops, I missed that clause. Still, I'm not sure whether I'll change my vote. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 16 19:42:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27188 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:42:16 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA04167; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA04390; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:41:55 -0400 Date: 16 Jul 98 22:46:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] More Updates! From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 125 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >126b: FOR - I assume this is really 127, but, it was distributed as 126 as > was the previous one :) ACK! More copy & paste problems :(. I'm beginning to think that copy & paste is more trouble than it's worth. Yes, that second one is 127. I should stop trying to do this stuff at 3 AM. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 16 19:44:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27214 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:44:40 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA04439; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA06225; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:44:07 -0400 Date: 16 Jul 98 22:49:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Weekly commodities From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 126 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >The assets page will be up shortly. >The SoEcon recieved a Word as their random commodity for the week. >The SoFriendship recieved a Term as theirs. > >I operate the State Mines for a Word. I operate the state mines for two Terms. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 17 00:53:10 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28265 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:53:09 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA09737 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256644.002B6AD9 ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:54:14 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256644.002B62F9.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:56:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away X-archive-position: 127 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >E then divides them under eir riders, with B, C and D Can you re-phrase that somehow. Having just talked about A, B, C and D, now starting a sentance with E really confused me, both in this mail and your original. I had to read the sentance a couple of times before I realised it was spivak! >Who would like to play in this test game? Ok, I'll be purple. Can I suggest you use a shorter course for this trial game. -- The Kid From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 17 04:34:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA28930 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 04:34:35 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 17 Jul 98 13:06:08 +0200 Message-ID: <35AF30AC.F12AFC66@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:08:29 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 128 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net The Kid would take purple as team colour. If you allow me in, I'd take green, and would send my moves to a neutral player right after I send the results of the previous round out. We could also invite Ackans if you like. 4 is the minimum number needed, but 6 or 8 make the game much more interesting. As The Kid suggested 125 was too long for a test course, I set the length to 75. OK, here's a small rewording... > Step 1: Each player chooses a unique colour, and gets > four riders of this colour, named A, B, C and D. > > Step 2: Each player gets a pack of 15 condition cards > with unique integer values between 1 and 15, inclusive. > The player then divides the cards under eir riders, with > B, C and D getting 3 cards and A 3 or 4 cards, so that > the total value of A isn't greater than 30, for B this number > is 25, for C 20, and for D 16. Unused cards are discarded. > > (Step 3: All riders are on field 0, the race begins. The > course is 75 fields long.) > There are two ways of benefitting: slipstream and breaking > away. Slipstream means one or more riders is on the field > directly in front of a rider, or directly in front of them, or... > The rider profits from all riders in such a chain in front of em, > as long as this chain isn't broken by an empty field in between. > > Breaking away means most of the field is behind a group > (of 1 or more riders). The larger the distance between the > group which broke away from the rest and the next group, > and the larger the part of the field which is behind the group, > the greater is the bonus for each rider in such a group. Who, except The Kid, would like to play in this test game? > Ember (offering to be referee) From Dan2000@usa.net Fri Jul 17 04:36:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA28953 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 04:36:49 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.21] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yx8nR-0003W8-00; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:35:29 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980716211502.006a1198@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:15:02 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] wot have i got? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 129 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly i own and my loyalty, because i have lost track of what people have given (traded for nothing in return) me and the lambda's web site does not seem to be up to date (please dont consider this as a complaint, i recognise that the website is a favour to the rest of us and that it can be difficult to keep it up to date all the time, for the little time i have been a player it has been very useful :) Thankyou Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From atharrison@wavetek.com Fri Jul 17 06:31:41 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29263 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:31:40 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA11764 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256644.004A7005 ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:33:03 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256644.004A9399.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:35:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] wot have i got? X-archive-position: 130 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly i own and my loyalty, Loyalty: 14 -- The Kid From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 17 08:25:10 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29581 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:25:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:25:09 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away In-Reply-To: <80256644.002B62F9.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 131 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >>E then divides them under eir riders, with B, C and D > >Can you re-phrase that somehow. Having just talked about A, B, C and D, now >starting a sentance with E really confused me, both in this mail and your >original. I had to read the sentance a couple of times before I realised it >was spivak! *nod* this also happened to me, but only took me a few seconds to realize it. >>Who would like to play in this test game? > >Ok, I'll be purple. Can I suggest you use a shorter course for this trial >game. I'll be blue. I actually don't think a shorter course is all that required. However, I'll do whichever. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 17 08:27:50 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29604 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:27:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:27:50 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] wot have i got? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980716211502.006a1198@pop.amexmail.com > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 132 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote: >I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly i own and my loyalty, >because i have lost track of what people have given (traded for nothing in >return) me and the lambda's web site does not seem to be up to date (please >dont consider this as a complaint, i recognise that the website is a favour >to the rest of us and that it can be difficult to keep it up to date all >the time, for the little time i have been a player it has been very useful :) Dan, you can find all objects that you currently own at http://www.nausicaa.net/~jtraub/macro/assets.html To find the other stuff (including duplicated, but sometimes slightly outdated info about possessions) you can look at the main ackanomic page at http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 17 15:25:39 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30913 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:25:36 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA06892; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA07403; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:25:14 -0400 Date: 17 Jul 98 18:30:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] wot have i got? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 133 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly i own and my loyalty, >because i have lost track of what people have given (traded for nothing in >return) me and the lambda's web site does not seem to be up to date (please >dont consider this as a complaint, i recognise that the website is a favour >to the rest of us and that it can be difficult to keep it up to date all >the time, for the little time i have been a player it has been very useful :) Sorry, I forgot to upload it with the last batch of changes. It's up now, with Cul's info, too. I've also fixed the proposal page to have the correct numbering, and updated the FAQ. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Sat Jul 18 23:13:47 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03585 for ; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:13:45 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA12719; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA11958; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:12:54 -0400 Date: 19 Jul 98 02:18:00 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] People's votes From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 134 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I still need votes for this voting period from The Kid, and Cul needs to change his votes, as was pointed out by Dan. He voted LOYAL for a non-RP proposal and voted for a proposal that doesn't exist yet. I need these votes by Monday, so be sure to get them in. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From LucFrench@aol.com Sat Jul 18 23:22:03 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03625 for ; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:22:01 -0700 From: LucFrench@aol.com Received: from LucFrench@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id SAVCa22301 for ; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51c19e86.35b1904e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:21:01 EDT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] People's votes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 X-archive-position: 135 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: LucFrench@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Disregard my 128 vote, and count me as an NAY on the one I can't vote LOYAL on. Thanks Cul From atharrison@wavetek.com Mon Jul 20 01:08:09 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08373 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:08:07 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA24583 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256647.002DE519 ; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:06:56 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256647.002C7A57.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:07:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] People's votes X-archive-position: 136 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 121: LOYAL 122: LOYAL 123: LOYAL 124: LOYAL 125: FOR 126: LOYAL 127: LOYAL -- The Kid From Dan2000@usa.net Mon Jul 20 12:19:13 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10552 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:19:09 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.52] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yyLRT-0006Nj-00; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:17:48 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980720201656.006a1b90@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:16:56 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] offer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 137 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net according to the assets page i have 1 more word than any other commodity, if this is really the case then i offer it to anyone who wants it in return for 1 acre of farm land. i would also like to thank anyone who has given me something for nothing and if they should want this they can have it for free :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 21 01:47:02 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12976 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:46:58 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id EAA00950; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA13215; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:46:29 -0400 Date: 21 Jul 98 04:51:04 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Yet Another Update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 138 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net OK, all of the stuff is up on the web page. I don't have time to convert it to text now, but if you want I will tomorrow/today. One thing I noticed is that this week we had no retracted proposals and no failed proposals. Hooray! --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From atharrison@wavetek.com Tue Jul 21 07:57:41 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13926 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:57:39 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA08260 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 88256648.00526794 ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:00:04 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <80256648.00524932.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:02:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Yet Another Update X-archive-position: 139 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >OK, all of the stuff is up on the web page. I don't have time to convert it >to text now, but if you want I will tomorrow/today. One thing I noticed is >that this week we had no retracted proposals and no failed proposals. >Hooray! New loyalty scores: Lambda: 361 + 30 = 391 JT: 357 + 15 = 372 Towsner: 276 + 45 = 291 The Kid: 267 + 18 = 285 Philo: 124 + 0 = 124 Ember: 8 + 15 = 23 Dan: 14 + 20 + 15 = 49 Cul: 0 + 6 = 6 -- The Kid From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Tue Jul 21 12:37:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14685 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:37:33 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Tue, 21 Jul 98 20:56:58 +0200 Message-ID: <35B4E508.D6E048EE@docnet.de> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:59:20 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away References: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 140 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net OK, now we have The Kid with the purple team, JT with the blue team, and me, if allowed, with the green team. We need more players or the game won't evolve the complexity which it needs - either from here or from Acka. What do you think? Ember From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 21 15:25:26 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15240 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:25:19 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA23877; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA09145; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:25:01 -0400 Date: 21 Jul 98 18:30:08 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Vacation From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 141 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I will be going on vacation starting this Saturday (or perhaps Friday), so I need people to temporarily fill in for my various secretaryships. Towsner will also, so he'd better get to work finding temps, too. I'll be on vacation for about a week, as will Towsner. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Tue Jul 21 15:27:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15259 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:27:03 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA24067; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA10289; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:26:22 -0400 Date: 21 Jul 98 18:31:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Breaking Away From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 142 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >OK, now we have The Kid with the purple team, JT with >the blue team, and me, if allowed, with the green team. >We need more players or the game won't evolve the >complexity which it needs - either from here or from >Acka. What do you think? I'll play as the gold team if the game starts after next week, since I'll be on vacation next week. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From tows@earthlink.net Tue Jul 21 18:30:18 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15757 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:30:14 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.147] (1Cust147.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.147]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13740 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:23:42 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Vacation X-archive-position: 143 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I will be going on vacation starting this Saturday (or perhaps Friday), so >I need people to temporarily fill in for my various secretaryships. Towsner >will also, so he'd better get to work finding temps, too. I'll be on >vacation for about a week, as will Towsner. Indeed I will. Actually, for SoJ and SoU I'd like someone to take them more permanently, since my hard drive has gone down (yes, again). Before I forget, I operate the state mines for a word. Also, that paper passed. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Wed Jul 22 10:38:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18473 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:38:03 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Wed, 22 Jul 98 19:30:13 +0200 Message-ID: <35B62233.2F6E2E2A@docnet.de> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:32:36 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: acka-games@muppetlabs.com, "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: [MacroNomic] Acka: Breaking Away (we need some more players) References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> <35AF30AC.F12AFC66@docnet.de> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 144 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Hi Ackans, we're currently trying to start a test game of Breaking Away (cycle racing game) in Macronomic, and we need some more players. We currently have 3 players (4 if I'm allowed to be both referee and player, e.g. by sending my moves to a neutral person). To be interesting, 6 to 8 would be more interesting. Who'd like to play? Here are the rules for the test game: > > Step 1: Each player chooses a unique colour, and gets > > four riders of this colour, named A, B, C and D. Current player colors are: Purple (The Kid), Blue (JT), Gold (Lambda) and Green (me). > > Step 2: Each player gets a pack of 15 condition cards > > with unique integer values between 1 and 15, inclusive. > > The player then divides the cards under eir riders, with > > B, C and D getting 3 cards and A 3 or 4 cards, so that > > the total value of A isn't greater than 30, for B this number > > is 25, for C 20, and for D 16. Unused cards are discarded. > > > > (Step 3: All riders are on field 0, the race begins. The > > course is 75 fields long.) > > > There are two ways of benefitting: slipstream and breaking > > away. Slipstream means one or more riders is on the field > > directly in front of a rider, or directly in front of them, or... > > The rider profits from all riders in such a chain in front of em, > > as long as this chain isn't broken by an empty field in between. (This means 3 for the rider leading a group, and for the otherriders 3 plus the number of riders in front of em in that group. > > Breaking away means most of the field is behind a group > > (of 1 or more riders). The larger the distance between the > > group which broke away from the rest and the next group, > > and the larger the part of the field which is behind the group, > > the greater is the bonus for each rider in such a group. I chose as bonus the base value of 3 to grow. If 1/2 of the riders are behind the last rider of a group, it grows to 4, if the number is 2/3 of all riders, to 5, and so on. If the base value of the next group plus the distance between the groups (the number of empty fields) is smaller than the base value of the group is set down to that value. E.g. one rider would get quite high cards otherwise even if only breaking away one field. I first allowed the maximum to be 20, but I think the smaller of 14 and twice the number of players would be better as maximum. (I just found the original rules and they have one-time bonuses, not continuous ones, but I like my variant better.) Are any Ackans interested? J.M.Bear (Acka) / Ember (MN) From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Jul 22 12:00:57 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18891 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:00:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:00:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Vacation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 145 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>I will be going on vacation starting this Saturday (or perhaps Friday), so >>I need people to temporarily fill in for my various secretaryships. Towsner >>will also, so he'd better get to work finding temps, too. I'll be on >>vacation for about a week, as will Towsner. > > Indeed I will. Actually, for SoJ and SoU I'd like someone to take >them more permanently, since my hard drive has gone down (yes, again). I will take the SoJ and SoU on a permanent basis. > Before I forget, I operate the state mines for a word. Okay.. you use up one voucher to do this. I have finished updating the assets page, but haven't uploaded it yet. > Also, that paper passed. The author of this paper needs to specify the commodity they wish to recieve. (I'm submitting a proposal to make this grant a voucher to be consistent) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 00:55:17 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21380 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:55:12 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id DAA17322; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA19317; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:54:42 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 03:59:50 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 146 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Here are the current props. I've updated the web page, but I'll wait for JT to update his page before I update the Players page. 128: Henry Towsner Date: July 17/22 1998 Create rule 2-2-0, "Trotsky Points" and give it the following text: " Any time all members of the Revolutionary Party vote either FOR or AGAINST and one member votes differently from both of the others, the player who votes differently receives one Trotsky point. Only members of the Revolutionary Party can get Trotsky points, but any player can have them. A player who has at least one Trotsky point may perform a Trotsky action by publicly announcing eir intent to do so. A player who has fewer than 0 Trotsky points immediately has 0 Trotsky points. Trotsky points are tracked by the Secretary of the Revolution. " Create rule 2-2-0-0, "Voluntary Exile" and give it the following text: " A member of the Revolutionary Party with at least 50 Trotsky points may go into Voluntary Exile. A player in Voluntary Exile may not perform Trotsky actions, regardless of what rule 2-2-0 says. When a member of the Revolutionary Party goes into Voluntary Exile, e leaves the Revolutionary Party and the Secretary of the Proletariat becomes a member of the Revolutionary Party. Regardless of any other rules, a player in Voluntary Exile may not become the Secretary of the Proletariat or a member of the Revolutionary Party, and e is not counted when determining the eligibility of other players for the Revolutionary Party. A player may return from Voluntary Exile at any time by publicly announcing eir intent to do so, at which time they lose 50 Trotsky points. When a player wins all players in Voluntary Exile lose 50 Trotsky points and leave Voluntary Exile as soon as the game is paused. If a player in Voluntary Exile ever has fewer than 50 Trotsky points then e immediately leaves Voluntary Exile and loses all eir Trotsky points. " It's a little strange, since the circumstances under which a player would enter VE are pretty unusual. But I would want to see other Trotsky actions added. Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: FOR [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Sounds like it could be useful... 129: Henry Towsner Date: July 17/22 1998 Remove rule 3-2-2-2-1 and create a new rule, 3-2-2-1-1 named "Prior Knowledge" and reading as follows: " If the Secretary of Truth submits a proposal using knowledge of proposals submitted but not distributed then the Secretary of Truth has commited the Civil Crime of Prior Knowledge against the authors of the not-yet-distributed proposals. " Votes: * Lambda: AGAINST [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: FOR [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Well, this is against my self interest, and I suspect that the other two RP members will vote FOR it, so I want to get the Trotsky point. 130: JT Traub Date: July 22/22 In section 5-1 replace the following OLD delimited text OLD For each paper that a player has accepted, e recieves one proposal commodity of a type of eir choice. OLD with the following VOUCHER delimited text VOUCHER For each paper that a player has accepted, e recieves one Voucher. VOUCHER Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: FOR [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Nice bug fix. 131: JT Traub Date: July 22/22 Amend section 6-0-0 (Tradeable objects) by appending the following HALT delimted text HALT Any person involved in a repeatable trade may cancel that trade at any time by publically notifying the Secretary of Economics. HALT Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: FOR [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Sounds good, but see my big prop later... 132: JT Traub Date: July 22/22 Amend section 2-0-1 (Leaving the game) to remove all occurances of the words 'and Proposal Mines' All Mines under the management of players become unmanaged. [They no longer serve any function as defined by the rules, so let's get rid of them] Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: FOR [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Yet more bug fixes. 133: JT Traub Date: July 22/22 Amend Section 2-0-2 to replace the following NOACK delimited text NOACK If a player does not specify a temporary Secretary for one of eir Secretarial positions, then the Secretary of the Central Comittee becomes the temporary Secretary for that position. NOACK with the following NOWFIXED delimited text NOWFIXED If a player does not specify a temporary Secretary for one of eir Secretarial positions, or if the specified player doesn't agree, then the Secretary of the Central Comittee becomes the temporary Secretary for that position. NOWFIXED Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: FOR [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] And still more bug fixes. I've also submitted a prop to fix another bug in this rule. 134: Lambda Date: July 22/22 Remove Section 6 and all descendants. Create Section 6: Objects with the following STUFF-delimited text: STUFF Within MacroNomic, there exists a class of Objects. All Objects must belong to a subclass of the class of Objects. Classes of Objects must be defined in the Rules. Classes of Objects inherit properties from their parent class, but they may override these properties as defined in the Rules. Objects may have any properties as defined by the Rules. By default, Objects and their properties are tracked by the Secretary of the Central Committee. Objects may exist in positive integer quantities only. When a type of Object is defined, a Global Limit on that type of object may also be defined. When any rule awards Objects of a type with a Global Limit to a player, that player only receives as many Objects as possible without the total number of that type going over that Global Limit STUFF Create a Section 6-0: Entities with the following LEGAL-delimited text: LEGAL Entities are a subclass of Objects. Entities may own or control other objects, and so are valid as the Controllers of Tangible Objects. The Secretary in charge of tracking Entities is by default the Secretary of Membership. LEGAL [ Entities are things like Players, The State, and perhaps other stuff that may own/control things ] Create a Section 6-0-0: The State with the following BIGBROTHER-delimited text: BIGBROTHER The State is an Entity. The State may make actions as an Entity though a State Mandate, which is a subclass of Referenda. The subclass of State Mandate inherits all of the sub properties of the class of Referenda, with the following exceptions: Only a member of the Revolutionary Party may create a State Mandate. The voting period for a State Mandate is 4 days. A State Mandate may only contain instructions for how The State will perform actions as an Entity. The accountant for State Mandates is the Secretary of the State. BIGBROTHER Create Section 6-1: Tangible Objects with the following TOUCHABLE-delimited text: TOUCHABLE Tangible Objects are a subclass of Objects. All Tangible Objects must belong to a subclass of the class of Tangible Objects. The Secretary in charge of tracking Tangible Objects and their properties is the Secretary of Economics. All Tangible Objects belong to the State, but may be controlled by various Players. Each Tangible Object has a property which is it's controller, and which must be a valid Entity. If the Entity which controls a Tangible Object ceases to exist, then that Object ceases to exist. TOUCHABLE [ The object ceases to exist so that by default, Tangible Objects are not tradeable ] Create Section 6-1-0: Tradeable Objects with the following BARTER-delimited text: BARTER There exists a class of Tangible Objects known as Tradeable Objects. All Tradeable Objects must belong to a subclass of the class of Tradeable Objects. Any Tradeable Object may be exchanged between players. A player initiates a trade by publicly stating the offer and what if anything is required in return and the type of trade. Unless otherwise specified in the rules Tradeable Objects may only be traded in positive integer quantities and a player may not offer more of a Tradeable Object then they have. A trade may only include Tradeable Objects. Any player who owns enough of everything required in return may accept the offer publicly. A trade may be either an instance trade or a repeated trade. If the trade is an instance trade then as soon as it is accepted the Objects are transferred. When a repeated trade is offered the offering player must also specify under what conditions the trade should occur. Whenever those conditions occur, the trade happens. The conditions for a repeated trade may only involve times and dates, not things happening in the game. When a trade occurs, the controllers of the Objects change to those specified by the conditions of the trade. When the Entity controlling a Tradeable Object ceases to exist, the controller of that object becomes The State. BARTER Create Section 6-1-0-0: Vouchers with the following CREDIT-delimited text: CREDIT Vouchers are a type of Tradeable Object. The State creates all Vouchers, and a player may once a week receive one Voucher and lose 15 Loyalty by declaring eir intent to do so. CREDIT Create Section 6-1-0-1: Proposal Commodities with the following MORESTUFF-delimited text: MORESTUFF Proposal Commodities are a type of Tradeable Object. There are three types of Proposal Commodities: Ideas, Words, and Terminologies. Terminologies may be abbreviated 'Terms'. Proposal Commodities are produced by the State Mines. If a player controls at least one Voucher, e may operate the State Mines to receive a commodity of eir choice and lose a Voucher by privately notifying the Secretary of Economics of eir intent to do so. If at the beginning of a MacroNomic week a player has fewer than one of each proposal commodity and did not trade away any commodities in the previous week, then that player receives one commodity of each type they do not own. MORESTUFF Create Section 6-1-0-2: Vote Farms with the following REDNECK-delimited text: REDNECK Vote Farms are a type of Tradeable Object. Vote farms are measured in integral numbers of Acres. There is a Global Limit of 200 Acres of farmland, and there are always exactly 200 Acres of Vote Farms. Any Acres of vote farms not controlled by any other entity are controlled by The State. REDNECK Remove " if there are fewer than 100 acres of farmland being managed by all other players," from Section 2-0-0: Joining the Game. Create Section 6-1-1: Victory Tokens with the following HOORAY-delimited text: HOORAY Victory Tokens are a subclass of Tangible Objects. They are recorded by the Secretary of Entertainment. HOORAY Add to the beginning of Section 2-0: Players the following ACTION-delimited text: ACTION Players are a subclass of Entities. Players have two properties: their Loyalty, and a list of titles that they hold. ACTION Add to the beginning of Section 7-0: Subgamers the following DELIMITER-delimited text: DELIMITER Subgamers are a subclass of entities. Subgamers that are not Players in MacroNomic may only control objects or perform actions defined in sub-sections of Section 7-3: Subgames. DELIMITER Replace the first sentence of Section 3: Referenda with the following SUBOBJ-delimited text: SUBOBJ There exists a class of Objects known as Referenda (singular: Referendum). SUBOBJ Whew! I hope that's all. I probably left one or two things out, but I think that I covered all of the bases. Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Note that I specifically did NOT take into account JT's prop, because it would be illegal for me to do so. Oh well, I guess that if this passes someone will have to re-propose that. 135: Lambda Date: July 22/22 Insert between the third and fourth sentences of Section 2-0-2: Vacation the following text: "If the Secretary of the Central Committee is on vacation, then the most loyal player besides em is the default player to become the temporary Secretary." Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Another bug fix for the vacation rule. However, it wont be in place in time to affect my upcoming vacation. 136: Lambda Date: July 22/22 This proposal has a Sub-Proposal with the following possible votes: NONE, 110, 125, 150. Replace step f of Section 2-4-1: Upon Winning with the following text: "All players have their Loyalty set to 0 except members of the New Revolution who have their Loyalty set to 100, and the Winning Player who has eir Loyalty set to x." Replace x in that sentence with the winning possibility of the Sub-Proposal of this proposal. Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] Sub-Proposal Votes: * Lambda: 125 [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] This makes it so that when a game is won, we don't have the position of SoCC switching around every week, as it would if all RP members were equal. However, I let you all decide how much of an advantage you get from winning. 136: Lambda (Just kidding, 137) Date: July 22/22 Insert the following at the end of Section 3-2-2: Cases: "A case may not be created because of an action performed more than two weeks earlier." Votes: * Lambda: FOR [10] * JT Traub: NONE [10] * Towsner: NONE [10] * The Kid: NONE [10] * Philo: NONE [10] On Vacation * Ember: NONE [10] * Dan: NONE [10] * Cul: NONE [10] This way, you can't pull sleazy tricks. For instance, if this *doesn't* pass, then the RP will have a sword to hang over The Kid'd head, since he declared his intent to join the RP, which is a crime. (Note: that's just an example. We wouldn't really do something like that. Or maybe we would...). By the way, I really need people to fill in for my positions soon. I'll be going on Saturday, and don't want to have to rush around finding people to fill in. So don't be shy! Volunteer! Remember, with three players on vacation, there will be a lot less work than normally. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 23 03:23:28 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA21849 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:23:25 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 23 Jul 98 11:32:23 +0200 Message-ID: <35B703BA.FAD15118@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:34:51 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: acka-games@muppetlabs.com, "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: [MacroNomic] Re: Acka: Breaking Away (we need some more players) References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> <35AF30AC.F12AFC66@docnet.de> <35B62233.2F6E2E2A@docnet.de> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 147 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Darn, I forgot step 4. It was in the original long rules Iposted to MN, then I tried to shorten and forgot it :-( > Here are the rules for the test game: > > > > Step 1: Each player chooses a unique colour, and gets > > > four riders of this colour, named A, B, C and D. > > Current player colors are: > Purple (The Kid), Blue (JT), Gold (Lambda) and Green (me). > > > > Step 2: Each player gets a pack of 15 condition cards > > > with unique integer values between 1 and 15, inclusive. > > > The player then divides the cards under eir riders, with > > > B, C and D getting 3 cards and A 3 or 4 cards, so that > > > the total value of A isn't greater than 30, for B this number > > > is 25, for C 20, and for D 16. Unused cards are discarded. > > > > > > (Step 3: All riders are on field 0, the race begins. The > > > course is 75 fields long.) Step 4: Each rider has three options in each round: a) Play one card and move forwards the number of points on the card b) Play two cards (etc etc) c) Stop and give away one card After each round, each rider gets a new card, which is 3 for riders that used option c and those who lead a group, that is, who are on a field x, and field (x+1) is empty. This number of 3 may grow as written below, but not for players who used option c. > > > There are two ways of benefitting: slipstream and breaking > > > away. Slipstream means one or more riders is on the field > > > directly in front of a rider, or directly in front of them, or... > > > The rider profits from all riders in such a chain in front of em, > > > as long as this chain isn't broken by an empty field in between. > > (This means 3 for the rider leading a group, and for the otherriders 3 > plus the number of riders in front of em in that group. > > > > Breaking away means most of the field is behind a group > > > (of 1 or more riders). The larger the distance between the > > > group which broke away from the rest and the next group, > > > and the larger the part of the field which is behind the group, > > > the greater is the bonus for each rider in such a group. > > I chose as bonus the base value of 3 to grow. If 1/2 of the riders > are behind the last rider of a group, it grows to 4, if the number is > 2/3 of all riders, to 5, and so on. If the base value of the next > group plus the distance between the groups (the number of empty > fields) is smaller than the base value of the group is set down to > that value. E.g. one rider would get quite high cards otherwise even > if only breaking away one field. > > I first allowed the maximum to be 20, but I think the smaller of > 14 and twice the number of players would be better as maximum. > (I just found the original rules and they have one-time bonuses, > not continuous ones, but I like my variant better.) > > Are any Ackans interested? > > J.M.Bear (Acka) / Ember (MN) From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Thu Jul 23 04:23:09 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA22031 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:23:02 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Thu, 23 Jul 98 13:08:54 +0200 Message-ID: <35B71A5A.79CD1099@docnet.de> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:11:22 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net, acka-games@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Re: Acka: Breaking Away (we need some more players) References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> <35AF30AC.F12AFC66@docnet.de> <35B62233.2F6E2E2A@docnet.de> <35B703BA.FAD15118@docnet.de> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 148 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > Darn, I forgot step 4. It was in the original long rules > I posed to MN, then I tried to shorten and forgot it :-( And I forgot the winning condition, of course. A rider crosses the finish line when reaching a field with a number equal or greater than the course length (here:75). If multiple riders cross the line in the same round, the higher field number before crossing the line comes first. Among those still even, the higher field number after crossing the line decides. Those still even remain even. The first rider gets 10 points, the next 8, then 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 point. If two or more riders are even, all of them get the number of points the first of them, if there had been a decision, would have received, while nobody receives the number of points the others of those tied players would have got if there was a decision (e.g. F 10 pts, G 8, H 8, I 8, J 4 pts and so on). Sorry for the confusion. > > J.M.Bear (Acka) / Ember (MN) From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 04:47:27 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22107 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:47:25 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.195] (1Cust195.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.195]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10085 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:46:11 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update X-archive-position: 149 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 130: FOR 131: FOR 132: FOR 133: FOR 134: FOR You realize we're going to have to spend weeks just straightening this one out... 135: FOR 136: FOR Yes! I was hopeing someone would find a good use for this. Subvote: 150 I don't have the rules right now, but do sub-proposals work with vote farms? I think they predate them... 136: AGAINST I'd support this for civil cases, but not for criminal. Not that it matters. Just to be clear, the RP could convict anyone of treason any time they feel like it. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 04:47:32 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22114 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:47:31 -0700 Received: from [208.254.144.195] (1Cust195.tnt7.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.144.195]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10116 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:47:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:47:01 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Vacation X-archive-position: 150 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >The author of this paper needs to specify the commodity they wish to >recieve. A word. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From atharrison@wavetek.com Thu Jul 23 06:18:32 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA22371 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:18:30 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA29618 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825664A.00491C83 ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:18:34 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025664A.00490DCA.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:23:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update X-archive-position: 151 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >129: >Well, this is against my self interest, and I suspect that the other two RP >members will vote FOR it, so I want to get the Trotsky point. Surely the Trotsky point thing doesn't take affect (if it passes) until the next round of proposals? Surely 128 and 129 cease to be active at the same point in time? >This way, you can't pull sleazy tricks. For instance, if this *doesn't* >pass, then the RP will have a sword to hang over The Kid'd head, since he >declared his intent to join the RP, which is a crime. (Note: that's just an >example. We wouldn't really do something like that. Or maybe we would...). Hang on a minute, exactly when did I publically declare my intent to become a member of the RP? -- The Kid From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 09:03:39 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22827 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:03:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:03:38 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 152 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 23 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >By the way, I really need people to fill in for my positions soon. I'll be >going on Saturday, and don't want to have to rush around finding people to >fill in. So don't be shy! Volunteer! Remember, with three players on >vacation, there will be a lot less work than normally. I will take them if no one else does I guess. I will not have the time however to keep the web pages up to date for proposals and such which is why I am hesitating to step forward here. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 09:06:25 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22853 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:06:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Vacation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 153 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Towsner wrote: >>The author of this paper needs to specify the commodity they wish to >>recieve. > A word. So noted, it'll be in the update of the page I make later today to account for props recently submitted. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Thu Jul 23 09:08:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22877 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:08:58 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA01907 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825664A.0058B63B ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:08:58 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025664A.00590CCF.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:14:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update X-archive-position: 154 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>By the way, I really need people to fill in for my positions soon. I'll be >>going on Saturday, and don't want to have to rush around finding people to >>fill in. So don't be shy! Volunteer! Remember, with three players on >>vacation, there will be a lot less work than normally. > >I will take them if no one else does I guess. I will not have the time >however to keep the web pages up to date for proposals and such which is >why I am hesitating to step forward here. I would take them, but considering I've been too busy to even submit any props recently, then I doubt I'd have much time to do anything. Alos, I'm off on holiday myself in August. What exactly is up for grabs here? -- The Kid From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 09:10:21 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22891 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:10:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: <8025664A.00490DCA.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 155 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >>129: >>Well, this is against my self interest, and I suspect that the other two >>RP members will vote FOR it, so I want to get the Trotsky point. >Surely the Trotsky point thing doesn't take affect (if it passes) until the >next round of proposals? Surely 128 and 129 cease to be active at the same >point in time? Actually, I assumed it would happen as soon as 128 passed if it did. That is how I dealt with vouchers from the last week as well (which hurt me as I didn't get a voucher) In fact, I gave a voucher for the passage of the voucher proposal figuring that the proposal passed into law before any benefits/penalties for that proposal's passage were applied. See also the rule for simultaneous things in the conventions section.. they happen an infinitesimal time apart, so no matter what, 128 happens 'before' 129 by some amount of time. >>This way, you can't pull sleazy tricks. For instance, if this *doesn't* >>pass, then the RP will have a sword to hang over The Kid'd head, since he >>declared his intent to join the RP, which is a crime. (Note: that's just >>an example. We wouldn't really do something like that. Or maybe we >>would...). > >Hang on a minute, exactly when did I publically declare my intent to become >a member of the RP? When you erroneously tried to become a member :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Thu Jul 23 09:21:00 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22940 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:20:58 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02013 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825664A.0059D03C ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:21:00 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025664A.0059D09E.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:26:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update X-archive-position: 156 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >See also the rule for simultaneous things in the conventions section.. >they happen an infinitesimal time apart, so no matter what, 128 happens >'before' 129 by some amount of time. Oh yes, I suppose that covers it. What would people think about changing things so that proposals passing don't actually take action until all proposals that round have passed/failed? >>Hang on a minute, exactly when did I publically declare my intent to become >>a member of the RP? > >When you erroneously tried to become a member :) Much as I hate to be picky (ok I lied, I enjoy it really), I never actually *publicly* declared my intent to become a member of the RP. I *privately* notified the SoM that I replaced Philo as a member, and then he publicly announced this. It just so happened that I was the SoM at the time. -- The Kid From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 09:48:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23063 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:48:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:48:18 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: <8025664A.0059D09E.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 157 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >Oh yes, I suppose that covers it. What would people think about changing >things so that proposals passing don't actually take action until all >proposals that round have passed/failed? I would actually prefer it to happen the way it does now. I'm hoping sometime in the future that we'll actually go to a daily update/distribution/resolution of props similar to what Acka (and most other nomics) have. I just haven't bothered yet since it's pretty slow here. >>When you erroneously tried to become a member :) > >Much as I hate to be picky (ok I lied, I enjoy it really), I never actually >*publicly* declared my intent to become a member of the RP. I *privately* >notified the SoM that I replaced Philo as a member, and then he publicly >announced this. It just so happened that I was the SoM at the time. Heh :) We can prosecute you anyway :) (not that we are really likely to do so :) (well, not that I am at least) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:06:12 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23733 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:05:38 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA18068; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA28621; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:05:19 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:10:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 158 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Much as I hate to be picky (ok I lied, I enjoy it really), I never actually >*publicly* declared my intent to become a member of the RP. I *privately* >notified the SoM that I replaced Philo as a member, and then he publicly >announced this. It just so happened that I was the SoM at the time. Yes, which is a problem with the public/private distribution rules. We really should fix that. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:11:53 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23786 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:11:46 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA19038; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA04507; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:11:28 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:16:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 159 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net > I don't have the rules right now, but do sub-proposals work with >vote farms? I think they predate them... Nope, they don't. I'll submit a proposal to fix that. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:12:25 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23796 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:12:22 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA19074; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA03706; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:10:24 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:15:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 160 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >136: AGAINST > I'd support this for civil cases, but not for criminal. Not that >it matters. Just to be clear, the RP could convict anyone of treason any >time they feel like it. No, we need it for criminal cases too. After all, it is a criminal crime to publicly declare one's intent to join the RP, and JT, The Kid and I have declared our intent. If there is no limitation then JT and I could be prosecuted when we leave, and The Kid whenever. And, as you said, the RP could convict anyone of treason at any time, so it doesn't really make much difference (well, it improves MacroNomics image as a just and fair Nomic, without really decreasing the RP's power). --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:17:08 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23839 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:17:04 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA19893; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA09069; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:16:49 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:21:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 161 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Oh yes, I suppose that covers it. What would people think about changing >things so that proposals passing don't actually take action until all >proposals that round have passed/failed? No, I like it the way it is. It seems more logical this way. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:20:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23863 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:20:03 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA20545; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA12091; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:19:47 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:24:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 162 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I would actually prefer it to happen the way it does now. I'm hoping >sometime in the future that we'll actually go to a daily >update/distribution/resolution of props similar to what Acka (and most >other nomics) have. I just haven't bothered yet since it's pretty slow >here. Yeah, I think that would work well. It'll mean I can spread out the work over the week, rather than doing everything in two days. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 13:33:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23924 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:33:35 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id QAA22205; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA24053; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:33:19 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 16:38:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 163 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >134: FOR > You realize we're going to have to spend weeks just straightening >this one out... What do you mean? I was fairly careful to make sure that everything acted the same way as it did before. You still have Global Limits, Loyalty Points, Titles, Vote Farms, Proposal Commodities, Vouchers, Victory Tokens, Referenda, Players, Subgamers, and The State and they all work about the same as they did before. Most of this just lays the framework for adding other types of Objects, and cleans up the object rules. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From else_if@yahoo.com Thu Jul 23 13:55:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24043 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:55:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19980723205729.12320.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [18.62.6.47] by send1c; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:57:29 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:57:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "else...if" Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Measly Update To: macronomic@dragoncat.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 164 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: else_if@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I've combined my replies into one message. >Much as I hate to be picky (ok I lied, I enjoy it >really), I never actually *publicly* declared my >intent to become a member of the RP. I *privately* >notified the SoM that I replaced Philo as a member, >and then he publicly announced this. It just so >happened that I was the SoM at the time. No, no. I very distinctly recall a message from you which said that you intended to be member of the RP. You may have been doing so in the position of an office, but there's no exemption. (Perhaps there should be, but that's a seperate issue.) >>Oh yes, I suppose that covers it. What would people >>think about changing things so that proposals passing >>don't actually take action until all proposals that >>round have passed/failed? >No, I like it the way it is. It seems more logical >this way. Yes, but what happens if a player stops being a member of the RP in the middle of a batch. That would cause a real mess. (I've submitted a fix for this). Or what if proposal 504 repeals sub-proposals and 505 uses one? I think that the way to do it would be to apply proposals based on the game state before any proposals happen so that changes to proposal related rules only take effect afterwards. >Yeah, I think that would work well. It'll mean I can >spread out the work over the week, rather than doing >everything in two days. I like it better this way. It's easier on the rest of us. Besides, you don't need to do everything in two days. You could just convert proposals to html and prepare an e-mail message all week and only one day a week do you send the mail and upload the changed proposal files. >What do you mean? I was fairly careful to make sure The effect is fine, there are just some odd things with the object hierarchies. Nothing serious. >No, we need it for criminal cases too. After all, it >is a criminal crime to publicly declare one's intent >to join the RP, and JT, The Kid and I have declared >our intent. If there is no limitation then JT and I >could be prosecuted when we leave, and The Kid >whenever. And, as you said, the RP could convict >anyone of treason at any time, so it doesn't really >make much difference (well, it improves MacroNomics >image as a just and fair Nomic, without really >decreasing the RP's power). I think there's some sort of misunderstanding about the use of criminal cases. Allow me to demonstrate: Criminal Case 1 Accuser: Henry Towsner Accused: Ember Crime: Treason Judges: Lambda, JT, The Kid Reasoning: Well, not really. But would you mind convicting him and assigning no penalty, just to make the point? A criminal case has no bearing in reality. No genuine crimes should be criminal. There is no connection between justice and a criminal case. Criminal cases are purely for entertainment and anti-scamming value. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From Dan2000@usa.net Thu Jul 23 16:42:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24895 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:42:34 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.38] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yzUyz-0007ZE-00; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:41:09 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980722231158.006ab664@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:11:58 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Acka: Breaking Away (we need some more players) In-Reply-To: <35B62233.2F6E2E2A@docnet.de> References: <35AD0554.6292F784@docnet.de> <35AE32F7.EC3CD44F@docnet.de> <35AF30AC.F12AFC66@docnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 166 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 19:32 22-07-98 +0200, Ember wrote: >Hi Ackans, i was wondering what our collective term was, are we Macrons? /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Thu Jul 23 16:42:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24894 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:42:33 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.38] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yzUyx-0007ZE-00; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:41:08 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980722230953.006ab664@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:09:53 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] vacation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 165 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net i will be on vacation from monday 27th of july to (effectively) 26th of August (there are a few days that i will be back around the first week in August but not long enough for me to do much). I have no secretaryships so nothing to transfer. When i come back i will have graduated. Do i get a certificate? :) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Thu Jul 23 16:42:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24896 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:42:34 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.38] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yzUz0-0007ZE-00; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:41:11 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980723192619.006a183c@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:26:19 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 167 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 03:59 23-07-98 -0400, Lambda wrote (in response to prop. 129): >Well, this is against my self interest, and I suspect that the other two RP >members will vote FOR it, so I want to get the Trotsky point. will you be able to? because it shouldn't really apply until Monday. And you have already voted. it doesn't say when it happens. here are my votes: 128: Loyal 129: Loyal 130: Loyal 131: Loyal ... oh you get the idea (Just incase you dont i mean that i am loyal to all of them) Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 17:05:10 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25029 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:05:08 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.221] (1Cust14.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.14]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14211 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980722230953.006ab664@pop.amexmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:07:29 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation X-archive-position: 168 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >i will be on vacation from monday 27th of july to (effectively) 26th of >August (there are a few days that i will be back around the first week in >August but not long enough for me to do much). I have no secretaryships so >nothing to transfer. When i come back i will have graduated. Do i get a >certificate? :) I declare Dan to have grduated. Frankly, Dan has pushed the envelope on the bounds of acceptable behavior...sorry. In joke. Anyway, congratulations Dan. /---------------------------------------------------------\ | The University of MacroNomic | | and the Revolutionary Party | | of MacroNomic | | | | Certify that | | Aidan McLoughlin | | Under the name of | | Dan | | | | Has Graduated | | The University of MacroNomic | | With a | | Bachelor of Newbie Being | | | | | | Henry Towsner | | | | &#$*)@% @$(^&)@$ | | ---------------- | | Secretary of Education | \--------------------------------------------------------/ -- -Henry Towsner < Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 17:51:31 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25209 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:51:29 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA24130; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA19508; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:51:07 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 20:56:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 169 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >I declare Dan to have grduated. Frankly, Dan has pushed the envelope >on the bounds of acceptable behavior...sorry. In joke. Anyway, >congratulations Dan. Heh. Should I call you Dr. Bob from now on? --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 18:00:16 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25263 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:00:15 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.221] (1Cust14.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.14]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17564 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:05:44 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation X-archive-position: 170 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Heh. Should I call you Dr. Bob from now on? Only when I start breaking promises and ignoring the rules... -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 18:02:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25292 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:02:40 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA25508; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA27004; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:02:21 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 21:07:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 171 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >i will be on vacation from monday 27th of july to (effectively) 26th of >August (there are a few days that i will be back around the first week in >August but not long enough for me to do much). I have no secretaryships so >nothing to transfer. When i come back i will have graduated. Do i get a >certificate? :) > Well, that makes 4 players who will be on vacation next week. Any more? Really, I think with that many players on vacation (and two of them in the RP), we should just pause the whole game. After next week, there will only be two players on vacation, and they aren't in the RP, so we can resume the game the week after. (Actually, I just realized that with Towsner and I on vacation, JT will have full veto power over all proposals if we don't vote on the next batch). --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 18:05:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25333 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:05:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:05:58 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 172 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 23 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Really, I think with that many players on vacation (and two of them in the >RP), we should just pause the whole game. After next week, there will only >be two players on vacation, and they aren't in the RP, so we can resume the >game the week after. (Actually, I just realized that with Towsner and I on >vacation, JT will have full veto power over all proposals if we don't vote >on the next batch). Muahahahahaha... what? Oh.. damn.. they noticed. :) Yeah, I was actually going to suggest pausing the game for that week as well. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 18:05:59 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25331 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:05:58 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.221] (1Cust14.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.14]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10988 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:05:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:11:27 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation X-archive-position: 173 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Well, that makes 4 players who will be on vacation next week. Any more? >Really, I think with that many players on vacation (and two of them in the >RP), we should just pause the whole game. After next week, there will only >be two players on vacation, and they aren't in the RP, so we can resume the >game the week after. (Actually, I just realized that with Towsner and I on /\ me Shame on you, you should know that. >vacation, JT will have full veto power over all proposals if we don't vote >on the next batch). We're going to be back in time to vote. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From lambda@world.std.com Thu Jul 23 18:06:07 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25347 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:06:04 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA25994; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA29528; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:05:43 -0400 Date: 23 Jul 98 21:10:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 174 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >here are my votes: > >128: Loyal >129: Loyal >130: Loyal >131: Loyal >.. >oh you get the idea > >(Just incase you dont i mean that i am loyal to all of them) You also need to vote on the sub-proposal of proposal 136. The valid votes are 110, 125, and 150. These numbers are the number of points a player will begin with if they won the last round. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 19:25:51 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25603 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:25:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:25:51 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 175 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net 128: FOR 129: FOR 130 - 133: mine 134: FOR 135: FOR 136: FOR 150 137: FOR [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Jul 23 19:51:18 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25743 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:51:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Assets page updated Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 176 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject says it all. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From frank.schmidt@docnet.de Fri Jul 24 10:24:04 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from mail.docnet.de (ns.docnet.de [194.122.214.66]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28225 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:24:01 -0700 Received: by mail.docnet.de with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.17 AS-0098304) for at Fri, 24 Jul 98 18:26:13 +0200 Message-ID: <35B8B5FC.E4C526F5@docnet.de> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:27:41 +0200 From: Frank Schmidt Organization: GMP Dr. Limbach & Kollegen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "The People's Republic of Macronomic" Subject: [MacroNomic] Votes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 177 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: frank.schmidt@docnet.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net My votes on 128-137 are LOYAL to each of them. My vote for the 136 sub-proposal is 125. From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 24 10:55:01 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28342 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:54:59 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id NAA04975; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA22027; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:54:45 -0400 Date: 24 Jul 98 13:59:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 178 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>game the week after. (Actually, I just realized that with Towsner and I on > /\ > me >Shame on you, you should know that. Yes, I do, but I wasn't paying attention as I typed it. It just one of those things that you're taught and is quite hard to unlearn. Sort of like using 'they' as a singular gender neutral pronoun. (Which is why I like the spivak, since I can just delete the 'th' from almost all of my pronouns to fix it) >>vacation, JT will have full veto power over all proposals if we don't vote >>on the next batch). > We're going to be back in time to vote. But just barely. However, if we just pause the game, I won't have to deal with getting a temp for my secretaryships, and then updating the web page for two weeks worth of props. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From tows@earthlink.net Fri Jul 24 19:38:34 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29908 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:38:32 -0700 Received: from [208.254.147.170] (1Cust170.tnt8.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.147.170]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08691 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:38:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:43:39 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: [MacroNomic] So long X-archive-position: 179 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I am going on vacation, leaving all my offices to JT except the SoL which I leave to Dan. (Don't worry, nothing's happening). See you in a week. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32709 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:34 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09OZ-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:15 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725111215.006a81d8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:12:15 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: [MacroNomic] vacating Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net how do i vacate from the mailing list? I think that someone told someone else that they might want to a while ago but i don't remember reading how. Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32706 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:33 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09OX-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:14 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725105727.006a81d8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:57:27 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 21:10 23-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >>here are my votes: >> >>128: Loyal >>129: Loyal >>130: Loyal >>131: Loyal >>.. >>oh you get the idea >> >>(Just incase you dont i mean that i am loyal to all of them) > >You also need to vote on the sub-proposal of proposal 136. The valid votes >are 110, 125, and 150. These numbers are the number of points a player will >begin with if they won the last round. > >--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) thanks for pointing that out, erm.... 136: Loyal 125 /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:37 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32708 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:33 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09OU-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:10 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725115101.006a7fd8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:01 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980722230953.006ab664@pop.amexmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 20:07 23-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >I declare Dan to have grduated. Frankly, Dan has pushed the envelope >on the bounds of acceptable behavior...sorry. In joke. Anyway, >congratulations Dan. > > >-Henry Towsner what exactly are the bounds of acceptable behavior? is this unacceptable? was my origional message (am i too presumtious (questionable spelling) in asking for a certificate) or are you speaking generally? If you are then i would like to apologise to anyone i have offended. Oh, and thanks for the certificate, i have mounted it on my wall in the living room. I takes pride of place between my PHD in Quantum Physics and my Victoria Cross :) Dan ps. Was that unacceptable? :( /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:35 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32705 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:32 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09OS-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:09 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725111742.006a7fd8@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:17:42 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Measly Update In-Reply-To: <19980723205729.12320.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 180 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 13:57 23-07-98 -0700, you wrote: > A criminal case has no bearing in reality. No genuine crimes >should be criminal. There is no connection between justice and a >criminal case. Criminal cases are purely for entertainment and >anti-scamming value. SHOW TRIALS!!! sorry, i mean that, from what "else...if" (?) sed, they seem like the old show trials of Russia, used by Stalin to get rid of anyone he didn't like.... Oops, this could be quite dangerous. You can apply a penalty can't you? Yes? well then, i would say that they have a very strong bearing in reality. Just because they aren't connected with justice it doesn't mean that they cant have a powerful effect. Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:36 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net [195.102.240.153]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32704 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:32 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09OR-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:07 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725103458.006a7b0c@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:34:58 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: References: <8025664A.0059D09E.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 09:48 23-07-98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Andy T Harrison wrote: >I would actually prefer it to happen the way it does now. I'm hoping >sometime in the future that we'll actually go to a daily >update/distribution/resolution of props similar to what Acka (and most >other nomics) have. I just haven't bothered yet since it's pretty slow >here. > >--JT > that would mean that people coudn't really retract their proposals wouldn't it? Dan /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From Dan2000@usa.net Sat Jul 25 11:51:54 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from serv1.is4.u-net.net (ns0.bb.u.net.uk [195.102.240.252] (may be forged)) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA32737 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:51:48 -0700 Received: from sounds.u-net.com [194.119.133.58] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0z09Oa-0003Mw-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:50:16 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980725194829.006a67a4@pop.amexmail.com > X-Sender: Dan2000@pop.amexmail.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:48:29 +0100 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Aidan McLoughlin Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] So long In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: Dan2000@usa.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net At 22:43 24-07-98 -0400, you wrote: > I am going on vacation, leaving all my offices to JT except the SoL >which I leave to Dan. (Don't worry, nothing's happening). See you in a >week. > >-- >-Henry Towsner oh dear, i'm going on vacation on monday so i will have to leave it to someone, does anyone want it? /================================================================\ | Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. | | But on the other hand, you have different fingers. -- :) | \================================================================/ From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 25 12:56:57 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00211 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:56:57 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980725115101.006a7fd8@pop.amexmail.com > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote: >At 20:07 23-07-98 -0400, you wrote: >>I declare Dan to have grduated. Frankly, Dan has pushed the envelope >>on the bounds of acceptable behavior...sorry. In joke. Anyway, >>congratulations Dan. >> >what exactly are the bounds of acceptable behavior? is this unacceptable? >was my origional message (am i too presumtious (questionable spelling) in >asking for a certificate) or are you speaking generally? If you are then i >would like to apologise to anyone i have offended. Oh, and thanks for the >certificate, i have mounted it on my wall in the living room. I takes >pride of place between my PHD in Quantum Physics and my Victoria Cross :) I think you missed Towsners patented inviso-smiley there Dan :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 25 12:58:42 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00228 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:58:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980725103458.006a7b0c@pop.amexmail.com > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote: >>I would actually prefer it to happen the way it does now. I'm hoping >>sometime in the future that we'll actually go to a daily >>update/distribution/resolution of props similar to what Acka (and most >>other nomics) have. I just haven't bothered yet since it's pretty slow >>here. >that would mean that people coudn't really retract their proposals wouldn't >it? I would get rid of the 'preactive' phase (pretty much), but it would also make conflicts between proposals much less common, so there would be less reason for such retraction as well :) Anyway, it was just a thought, and not something I'm about to propose yet :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 25 13:01:35 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00285 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:01:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacating In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980725111215.006a81d8@pop.amexmail.com > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 5 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote: >how do i vacate from the mailing list? > >I think that someone told someone else that they might want to a while ago >but i don't remember reading how. Send mail to macronomic-request@dragoncat.net with the command 'help' in the body. The command you are looking for is 'set vacation'. Like Listsrv, Listar has a vacation flag which will stop you from getting email without actually unsubscribing you from the list. When you return from vacation, just send mail with the command 'unset vacation'. Both of these commands should be sent to macronomic-request@dragoncat.net. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Sat Jul 25 14:58:56 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00768 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:58:53 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA14852; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA15726; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:58:31 -0400 Date: 25 Jul 98 18:03:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] vacation From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 6 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >what exactly are the bounds of acceptable behavior? is this unacceptable? >was my origional message (am i too presumtious (questionable spelling) in >asking for a certificate) or are you speaking generally? If you are then i >would like to apologise to anyone i have offended. Oh, and thanks for the >certificate, i have mounted it on my wall in the living room. I takes >pride of place between my PHD in Quantum Physics and my Victoria Cross :) Never mind, it's an in joke. At the graduation this year at our school, the headmaster declared that the senior class had "Pushed the envelope of acceptable bahavior", and got many of the students mad (after all, it was their graduation). This same headmaster has said that "[the student's education] is not my highest priority", and other such winning quotes, as well as not giving the student council the power given it by the student handbook. Henry especially had been fighting this, which is why he's now making jokes about other incidents of the headmaster. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From lambda@world.std.com Sat Jul 25 15:03:46 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00809 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:03:41 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id SAA15078; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA17917; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:03:23 -0400 Date: 25 Jul 98 18:08:33 -0400 Subject: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 7 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I'm wondering whether people want to pause the game until next Saturday or just want me to leave my positions to someone else. I'm leaving early tommorow, so I'll have to go on vacation or pause the game today, and if I go on vacation I'll have to send to whoever takes over the current preactive props. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sat Jul 25 15:14:58 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00867 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:14:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 8 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 25 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >I'm wondering whether people want to pause the game until next Saturday or >just want me to leave my positions to someone else. I'm leaving early >tommorow, so I'll have to go on vacation or pause the game today, and if I >go on vacation I'll have to send to whoever takes over the current >preactive props. I would go for pausing the game personally. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Sat Jul 25 22:00:52 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04461 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:00:50 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id XAA03281; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (door1.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA28423; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:08:28 -0400 Date: 25 Jul 98 23:13:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 9 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >On 25 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>I'm wondering whether people want to pause the game until next Saturday or >>just want me to leave my positions to someone else. I'm leaving early >>tommorow, so I'll have to go on vacation or pause the game today, and if I >>go on vacation I'll have to send to whoever takes over the current >>preactive props. > >I would go for pausing the game personally. Well, since I've heard no objections, and the majority of the RP actively supports it, I hereby pause the game of MacroNomic. Messages my still be sent to the mailing list, but all actions taken during the week between July 25 (inclusive) to August 1 (exclusive) are assumed to take place an infinitesimal amount of time apart on August 1. All dates are pushed forward one week, and no player may recieve any bonuses or penelties for the duration of the week. If I missed anything, it is assumed to occur in the most logical manner. I'll see you all later! Have fun! --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sun Jul 26 00:44:35 1998 Received: Listar v0.109a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04945 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:44:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: [MacroNomic] Ignore this message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 10 X-listar-version: Listar v0.109a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net I'm trying to find a bug in the listar mailing list software. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From atharrison@wavetek.com Mon Jul 27 01:35:48 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10760 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:35:46 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA23579 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825664E.002F46C3 ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:36:23 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025664E.002E73C1.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:41:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Another measly update X-archive-position: 11 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Sorry, wasn't really paying attention just then. So are we pausing the game? I don't see how we can and still be playing by the rules. How about this for the future: If at any time the number of members of the Revolutionary Party that are 'on vacation' exceeds the number of members that are not, or the number of players (RP or Prole) that are 'on vacation' exceeds the number of players that are not, then the game of MacroNomic shall be put 'on hold' until sufficent players return from vacation to ensure that the number of members of the Revolutionary Party that are not 'on vacation' exceeds the number of members that are, and the number of players (RP or Prole) that are not 'on vacation' exceeds the number of players that are. [Note this means that if there are 10 players, the game does not go on hold till 6 are on vacation, but will not resume until 2 of those 6 return] If anyone thinks this is a good idea, I'll add a few more details and prop it. Here's my votes anyway: 128: LOYAL 129: LOYAL 130: LOYAL 131: LOYAL 132: LOYAL 134: LOYAL 135: LOYAL 136: LOYAL (125) 137: LOYAL -- The Kid From atharrison@wavetek.com Tue Jul 28 03:10:56 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from wav.wavetek.com (wav.wavetek.com [204.94.82.12]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15742 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:10:54 -0700 Received: from sd-mta.wavetek.com (sd-mta.wavetek.com [204.94.82.17]) by wav.wavetek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA03693 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sd-mta.wavetek.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825664F.00380132 ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:11:43 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WAVETEK@MAILGATE From: "Andy T Harrison" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Message-ID: <8025664F.0038477C.00@sd-mta.wavetek.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:17:08 +0100 Subject: [MacroNomic] Vacation X-archive-position: 12 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: atharrison@wavetek.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Well I'm off on holiday (sorry, vacation) next week, and probably some of this week as well, so I might not be here when the game resumes. If you restart without me, then someone had better fill in for me as SoM, (I suggest whoever is doing SoT at the time). -- The Kid From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 31 16:55:09 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02502 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:55:04 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA19127; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA07650; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:54:42 -0400 Date: 31 Jul 98 19:59:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 13 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net Hm, I sent this message last Saturday and it seems to never have reached the list. Oh well, here's what I said. I'll be making a proposal to make it official that last week was ignored. Well, here's what I said originally: --- SNIP --- >On 25 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>I'm wondering whether people want to pause the game until next Saturday or >>just want me to leave my positions to someone else. I'm leaving early >>tommorow, so I'll have to go on vacation or pause the game today, and if I >>go on vacation I'll have to send to whoever takes over the current >>preactive props. > >I would go for pausing the game personally. Well, since I've heard no objections, and the majority of the RP actively supports it, I hereby pause the game of MacroNomic. Messages my still be sent to the mailing list, but all actions taken during the week between July 25 (inclusive) to August 1 (exclusive) are assumed to take place an infinitesimal amount of time apart on August 1. All dates are pushed forward one week, and no player may recieve any bonuses or penelties for the duration of the week. If I missed anything, it is assumed to occur in the most logical manner. I'll see you all later! Have fun! --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. --- SNIP --- From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 31 17:01:55 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02623 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:01:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:01:54 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 14 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 31 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >Hm, I sent this message last Saturday and it seems to never have reached >the list. Oh well, here's what I said. I'll be making a proposal to make it >official that last week was ignored. Well, here's what I said originally: Bizarre that it never mae it. My mail logs don't show it arriving here at dragoncat.net, so who knows what bit-bucket it got dropped into. Welcome back btw. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From lambda@world.std.com Fri Jul 31 17:32:18 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02710 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:32:14 -0700 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA22273; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.114.8.180] (news.lotus.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA27663; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:31:55 -0400 Date: 31 Jul 98 20:37:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? From: "Brian Campbell" To: macronomic@dragoncat.net X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 15 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: lambda@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >Bizarre that it never mae it. My mail logs don't show it arriving here at >dragoncat.net, so who knows what bit-bucket it got dropped into. That's odd. I suppose it's just a failing of SMTP. Why don't we use a reliable mail protocol? (Don't answer that, it was rhetorical). >Welcome back btw. Thank you. Henry should be back soon, too, if he bothers to check his mail. --- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda) Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/ Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/ Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/ ---------- Nihil sub sole novum. From jtraub@dragoncat.net Fri Jul 31 17:36:38 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02734 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:36:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:36:37 -0700 (PDT) From: JT To: macronomic@dragoncat.net Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 16 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: jtraub@dragoncat.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net On 31 Jul 1998, Brian Campbell wrote: >>Bizarre that it never mae it. My mail logs don't show it arriving here at >>dragoncat.net, so who knows what bit-bucket it got dropped into. > >That's odd. I suppose it's just a failing of SMTP. Why don't we use a >reliable mail protocol? (Don't answer that, it was rhetorical). Heh... SMTP is reliable. However, there are implementations of MTUs that are not (some older MS mail servers won't resend if they cannot connect immediately, but won't inform you that it bounced either) (note: this is anecdotal experience only :) >>Welcome back btw. > >Thank you. Henry should be back soon, too, if he bothers to check his mail. Well, he's already returned in Acka, so I suspect he won't be too far behind here. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] From tows@earthlink.net Fri Jul 31 20:04:16 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03148 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:04:14 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.13] (1Cust13.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.13]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23385 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:26:45 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Pause the game? X-archive-position: 17 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >>Thank you. Henry should be back soon, too, if he bothers to check his mail. > >Well, he's already returned in Acka, so I suspect he won't be too far >behind here. And indeed I am. I return from vacation. Sorry about the delay, I was going through my mail, and the Acka mail box happens to come up on top of the MN box. Sorry about the confusion Aidan, as lambda said, it had nothing to do with you, it was just a reference to my school. And, to be fair, he is a good headmaster, he's just done some stupid things on occasion. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith From tows@earthlink.net Fri Jul 31 20:04:19 1998 Received: Listar v0.110a - handled for list macronomic (macronomic@dragoncat.net) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03149 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:04:14 -0700 Received: from [153.36.117.13] (1Cust13.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.13]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23338 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:03:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: tows@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980725111742.006a7fd8@pop.amexmail.com > References: <19980723205729.12320.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:22:02 -0400 To: macronomic@dragoncat.net From: Towsner Subject: Re: [MacroNomic] Measly Update X-archive-position: 18 X-listar-version: Listar v0.110a Sender: macronomic-bounce@dragoncat.net X-original-sender: tows@earthlink.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: macronomic@dragoncat.net >You can apply a penalty can't you? Yes? well then, i would say that they >have a very strong bearing in reality. Just because they aren't connected >with justice it doesn't mean that they cant have a powerful effect. I mean that the results are unrelated to what really happened. Criminal trials shouldn't be used for things we care about because it's designed to be corrupted. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith