Subject: [MacroNomic] altering proposals

From: Aidan McLoughlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:18:35 +0100

is it possible to ask the sectretary of truth to alter a porposal sent to
him/her/other before it becomes active?  I cannot find anything in the
rules which say it is not, nor anything that says it is, and from the way i
understand it rule 0-0 states that technically it should legal, if not
wouldn't it be a good idea to make it legal or at least to clarify that it
is not legal?

Dan

	  /-------------------------------\
	  | "Bollocks to the rules!"      |
	  | - Jack in 'Lord of The Flies' |
	  |   By William Golding          |
	  \-------------------------------/

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From: "Brian Campbell" <[email-masked]>
Date: 20 Jun 98 15:16:37 -0400

On Sat, Jun 20, 1998 2:20 PM, JT <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>From section 3-1, Proposals
>The Secretary of Truth may notify any player during the preactive stage of
>eir proposal if eir proposal conflicts with any other currently preactive
>proposal, and how e may change eir proposal to conform with the other.
>
>That is the only reference I can find to changing a proposal, but it
>describes a specific situation under which that change may be allowed.
>Unfortunately, I don't believe that this would allow the changing of a
>preactive proposal under any other situation.
>
>If anyone disagrees with this analysis, I'd be interested in hearing
>how/why?
>

Well, when I made this proposal I meant it so that the player could retract
the proposal, modify it, and resubmit it. However, as has already been
pointed out, you will already lose the proposal commodities, and so this
little bit is fairly useless. Another thing is that this actually does come
into effect now; both Dan's proposal and one of JT's proposals try to do
the same thing. I'll be getting in contact with each of you privately about
this, but I don't think you can change your proposals. One or the other
will have to retract their proposal, and lose the commodities.

--- Brian Campbell (AKA lambda)
Visit my webpage: http://world.std.com/~campbell/Brian/
Visit the Latin Club webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/
Visit the MacroNomic webpage: http://world.std.com/~lambda/macronomic/

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Nihil sub sole novum.

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From: JT <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:07:07 -0700 (PDT)

On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote:
>>No.. Referenda are certainly part of the game state and thus by Section
>>0-0 may not be altered except as allowed by the rules.
>>
>>My argument was that a PREactive proposal might be allowed to be changed
>>due to the phrasing of a rule under very specific circumstances.
>>
>>So, while I don't doubt that there are in fact paradoxes and scams hiding
>>within the rulebase even as small as it is, I don't think this is one of
>>them :)
>
>That's not what you said:  You said that a player could change their
>proposal at the very last second while people are voting on it and achieve
>omnipotence or something, that is when the proposal is ACTIVE, not
>PREACTIVE, so the rules don't cause much of a problem.  So naturally i
>thought that you meant that someone could change their rule at the absolute
>last second, i didn't actually think about reading the rules thoroughly to
>check :)  

No, someone else said that it could alter any proposal.. I said that it
could (under my reading) possibly allow changes to preactive props, but
only in the case of a conflict.

Regardless, we've already figured out that one of you or I, Dan, is going
to retract.  The only question is whom :)

--JT

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[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
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From: JT <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:35:00 -0700 (PDT)

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Aidan McLoughlin wrote:
>I am happy now, I will gladly accept your offer of the commodities Jt, but
>i would not expect you to give me any loyalty, you diserve the credit for
>your proposal.  I will retract my proposal now.

Okay.  I give you one of each type of commodity.
The page (as I said to Philo) will be updated shortly with the weekly
commodity creations.

---JT