[leg-nomic] RE:

Amend Statute 3.3 to read:

Ea= ch statute=20 shall have a number for reference. No statute may have the same number as=20 another statute.

All statutes shall be labeled in the follo= wing=20 manner:

Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute"

Where X is the number of the section = the=20 statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's

unique, sequential, reference number, and = "Name=20 of the Statute" is the name of the statu= te=20 proposed in the bill.

********************End Bill=20 Text*************************

------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------

*******************Bill=20 Text*******************************

Proto-Bill #2

Title: Self Repealing

Amend statute 4.9.1 to change its number t= o read=20 4.10

Amend statute 4.9.2 to change its number t= o read=20 4.11

After the following two items have taken e= ffect=20 this bill repeals itself.

********************End Bill=20 Text*************************

------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------

I'm sure these have glaring bugs but = its a=20 start... Comments?

--Ryan

------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C0ED32.7E5D10F0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 19:15:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 62478 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:15:31 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605021527.VSFN13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:15:27 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Final Draft Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:15:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c0ed65$5519ae00$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 =20 Final draft: . . . Create Statute 2.2.1, reading: When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political=20 Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally=20 by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as=20 Party Leader. . . . Create a new Political Party for each player, each with then Seats in=20 Parliament. -- Aside from the minor typo in the last part of this bill (=93then seats=94), I don=92t think it=92s currently a legal provision (=93segment=94) of a bil= l. =A74.4 provides that =93A bill may include one or more proposals to create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court.=94 The last provision of your proto-bill does neither. My suggestion: fold your last provision into your 2.2.1, something like =93At the time of the passage of this bill, a new Political Party shall be created for each player as if he was newly seated in Parliament.=94 ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

Final draft:
. . .
Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:
When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political =
Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally
by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as
Party Leader.
. . .
Create a new Political Party for each player, each with then Seats in
Parliament.
--

Aside from the minor typo in the last pa= rt of this bill (“then seats”), I don’t think it’s currently a legal provision (“segment”) of a bill.=A0 =A74.4 provides that “A bill may include one or more proposals to cre= ate, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute, or to overturn one or mor= e Rulings of The Court.”=A0 The= last provision of your proto-bill does neither.=A0 My suggestion: fold your last provision into your 2.2.1, something like “= ;At the time of the passage of this bill, a new Political Party shall be create= d for each player as if he was newly seated in Parliament.”<= /font>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*******************Bill Text*******************************

Proto-Bill #1

Title: Blessed Organization

Amend Statute 3.3 to read:

Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute may have the same number as another statute.

All statutes shall be labeled in the following manner:

Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute"

Where X is the number of the section the statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's

unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is the name of the statute proposed in the bill.

********************End Bill Text*************************

I really prefer to have nested rules. I would vote against this as it stands now.

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law

--============_-1220414911==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 19:24:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 83700 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:24:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605022427.WFDF13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:24:27 -0700 To: Subject: Re: Bill 1 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:24:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c0ed66$962925a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for our statutes. The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it): X =3D Logical rule group division Y =3D Logical subdivision Z =3D if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incremented and Y is set to 9 I've always been a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to only two or even three layers. My experience has been that it is often helpful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth (Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places). =20 I agree. I think Ryan misread my intent when I numbered the initial set; =A7=A74.9.1=962 aren=92t 4.10 and 4.11, they are statutes =93below=94 = =A74.9. One of my past Nomics (Gnomic, which died for no good reason) dispensed entirely with rule =93numbers;=94 we used stuff like =93judgment.overturnin= g,=94 with multiple levels of hierarchy. That seemed entirely new to me when it was proposed; was it?=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 1

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for our statutes.

The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it):<= /font>

X =3D Logical rule group division<= /tt> Y =3D Logical subdivision Z =3D if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incr= emented and Y is set to 9

I've always been= a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to onl= y two or even three layers. My experience has been that it is often hel= pful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth (= Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places). <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> I agree.=A0 I think Ryan misread my intent when I numbered the initial set; =A7= =A74.9.1–2 aren’t 4.10 and 4.11, they are statutes “below” =A74.9.=A0 One of my past N= omics (Gnomic, which died for no good reason) dispensed entirely with rule “= ;numbers;” we used stuff like “judgment.overturning,= ” with multiple levels of hierarchy.=A0 That seemed entirely new to me when it was proposed; was it?<= span style=3D'color:navy'> <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ; <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>

I=92m debating the wisdom of continuing to comment on proto-bills. Nomically speaking, I favor a weak administrator= /speaker/moderator/king, or even none at all. I=92m wondering if continuing to comment on bills and proto-bills is too much of = a power grab, if my footprint is then too heavy on the ruleset (statute-set).= There are historical precedents, o= f course, such as the actual strength of the U.S. President even when his constitutional role is small.

Fortunately Cappochi brings up the very question of royal prerogatives in a small manner so that we can discuss wha= t they should be.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

-----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y...= [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]
Sent= : Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:37 AM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject: [leg-nomic] Proposa= l for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege

Take a look at Statute 1.2 . . . The King should have the pow= er to dissolve Parliament, but the way this statute currently exists means he may not.

&= nbsp;

Statute 1.2 = almost got left out of the initial set. It=92s designed to be an =93escape hatch,=94 for when the game irrecoverably crashes. My hope is that neit= her I nor a future King ever need use it. Historically speaking the King should be able to dissolve Parliament= , but Nomically speaking, escape hatches can be trouble. A commentator on nom= ic.net worried that the escape hatch might lead to Imperial Nomic, and that possibility does exist.

=

I didn=92t put mutable and immutable rules in the initial set. If Parliament wishes to write a = =93constitution,=94 though, they can decide how mutable 1.2 ought to be. Or get rid of it entirely.

&= nbsp;

Suggestions?Comments? I= don't know about the second paragraph - obviously our King is a monarch of exceeding wisdom and jutice, but =
we don't want him changing the laws willy-nilly.

&= nbsp;

A court case stri= kes me as just about right. Quest= ions: Should Royal Edits be numbered and archived? Or should statutes be annotated wi= th edits? Or should edits erase the original= form of the bill (which strikes me as somehow Orwellian)? Food for thoug= ht.

=

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>

------=_NextPart_001_0046_01C0ED78.9BB59140-- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140-- From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 05 16:51:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 44750 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f55Np4421736 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:51:00 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Another proto-proposal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner After some thought on the subject of self-deleting text, I thought the following might be desirable: Create Statute 4.10, reading Acts of Parliament are documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution. No creation of an Act of Parliament is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the time of execution. An Act of Parliament consists of one or more proposals. Each Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference. The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unless that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which had just passed with a majority of votes. Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority to take effect. Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full A bill may include one or more proposals. Each proposal is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following: 1) Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute 2) Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court 3) Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament 4) Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rules provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action. Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full A bill or bill segment which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill or bill segment which creates, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private. Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full A bill or bill segment which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 19:29:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 80892 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 02:29:37 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606022927.KZGO13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:29:27 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Where are we? Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: <004e01c0ee30$362af640$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640" ------=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A thought occurred to me a bit ago =96 what=92s the name of this land we rule? =20 I=92ll let you come up with suggestions. I suggest something along the lines of the names of most old-world countries, whose names translate to =93The place us people live.=94 (The land of the Angles, Angle-land, England.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A thought occurred to me a bit ago =96 what=92s the name of this land we rule?

I=92ll let you come up with suggestions. I suggest someth= ing along the lines of the names of most old-world countries, whose names trans= late to =93The place us people live.=94 (The land of the Angles, Angle-land, England.)

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Two new players, Davi= d Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston.=A0 You may take your seats = in Parliament.

(If anyone=92s counting, that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.)

------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C0EE19.BACA7F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 21:12:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 04:12:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 56507 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606041226.QPHC13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:12:26 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:10:05 -0400 Message-ID: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0" ------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Acts of Parliament are an appropriate addition, now that I think about it =96 and I deliberately left the definition of a bill (proposal) as fairly Suber-esque. =20 =97Do we need to be able to amend or repeal Acts? Usually they=92ll have one-time application. =20 =97Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game? I=92m not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The Acts of Parliament are an appropriat= e addition, now that I think about it =96 and I deliberately left the definition of a b= ill (proposal) as fairly Suber-esque.

=97Do we need to be able to amend or repeal Acts? Usually they=92l= l have one-time application.

=97Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game?&= nbsp; I=92m not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 21:24:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 04:24:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 79087 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606042407.RDDI13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:24:07 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bill 2 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:21:44 -0400 Message-ID: <007f01c0ee40$323dc340$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340" ------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here=92s Bill 2, submitted by Henry Towsner. Initial Public Opinion on this bill is high for an internal-organization bill; apparently the public sees this as more Democratic. Initial Public Opinion is +15. =20 I=92m going out of town for the weekend, so I=92ll actually open voting Thurday shortly after I publish the Agenda. I=92ll leave the voting open until Wednesday, just as if I had opened the vote on Sunday. =20 =20 Create Statute 2.3, reading:=20 =20 Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.4, reading:=20 =20 Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:=20 =20 When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. At the time this rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:=20 =20 Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results.=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here=92s Bill 2, submitted by Henry Towsner. Initial Public Opinion on this bill is high for an internal-organiza= tion bill; apparently the public sees this as more Democratic. Initial Public Opinion is +15.

I=92m going out of town for the weekend, so I=92ll actually open voting Thurday shortly after I publish the Agenda. I= =92ll leave the voting open until Wednesday, just as if I had opened the vote on Sunday.

Create Statute 2.3, reading: =

Each player represents the Party Leader = for one Political Party. Thanks t= o perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at t= hat player's direction. Consequen= tly, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to th= e Party Leaders.

Create Statute 2.4, reading: =

Each Political Party always has at least= one Seat in Parliament at all times.

Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:

When a player is first seated in Parliam= ent, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as= Party Leader. At the time this rule= is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule,= as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.

Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:

Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Member= s of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to= The King. After the voting period= defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bil= l, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held = by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. <= /span>

------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340-- ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340-- From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 05 22:30:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 05:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 67443 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f565Ud401855 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> References: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:30:27 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220317058==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220317058==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >-Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of >the game? I'm not entirely sure that we actually need many >artifacts for this game. Given that virtually anything will be an artifact of the game, I assume there will be a fair number. In particular, anything we use to represent the economy will probably fall into that category. The idea is that Private things are things we can't mess with arbitrarily, so they would require more support to alter. I don't know whether we'll need it, but I'd rather include it now and have that option open then have us decide to do something like that later and leave a loophole. As for amending acts, here are a couple of situations I can think of where it might be useful: A complicated proposal passes which has some sort of delayed effect (for instance cleaning something up after a transition period). Then a problem is found with the original bill, and a fix is proposed. The original transition bill will no longer work safely; there are ways around it (having another act take effect immediately after), but those are much more likely to lead to conflicts. As another scenario, suppose we write a law with a "sunset clause," which causes it to be repealed after (say) six months if it isn't reinstated. While, again, a renewal could be accomplished by having another Act take effect immediately after, there could be problems caused by having the law "blink" in and out of existence. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220317058==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal

-Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game? I'm not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game.

Given that virtually anything will be an artifact of the game, I assume there will be a fair number. In particular, anything we use to represent the economy will probably fall into that category.

The idea is that Private things are things we can't mess with arbitrarily, so they would require more support to alter.

I don't know whether we'll need it, but I'd rather include it now and have that option open then have us decide to do something like that later and leave a loophole.

As for amending acts, here are a couple of situations I can think of where it might be useful:

A complicated proposal passes which has some sort of delayed effect (for instance cleaning something up after a transition period). Then a problem is found with the original bill, and a fix is proposed. The original transition bill will no longer work safely; there are ways around it (having another act take effect immediately after), but those are much more likely to lead to conflicts.

As another scenario, suppose we write a law with a "sunset clause," which causes it to be repealed after (say) six months if it isn't reinstated. While, again, a renewal could be accomplished by having another Act take effect immediately after, there could be problems caused by having the law "blink" in and out of existence.

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law

--============_-1220317058==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 02:36:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 09:36:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 36308 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606093658.ELMD13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 02:36:58 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Royal Edit? Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c0ee6b$c89cbb40$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300" ------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Futz. I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset. This one might be a bigger deal than the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a rule we=92re going to use shortly. =20 >From =A76.3: =93Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.5 . . .=94 The problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time, was 4.6 when the game actually started. The results of a vote will never be published under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and opening voting. =20 I see several courses of action: =20 1. Just fix it. 4.6 is the rule that was intended, so it should read 4.6. This is the simplest solution, but isn=92t exactly true to the spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent. It occurred to me, too, to just change it and not mention it to anybody; I=92d probably have got away with it and our lives would be easier. 2. Use the =93escape hatch=94 of =A71.2. I strongly prefer not to do this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies. 3. Play on. My read on what happens then, is that rule changes in the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political Capital this week. There is still has time to get a =93fix-up=94 bill on this week=92s Agenda. 4. Some kind of Court case. I don=92t know what kind of case would fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but some clever player might come up with one. =20 Suggestions? =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Futz.= =A0 I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset.=A0 This one might be a bigger deal than = the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a rule we’re going to use short= ly.

From =A76.3: “Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.5 . . .”=A0 The= problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time, was 4.6 when the game actually started.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 The results of a vote will never be p= ublished under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and opening voting.

I see several courses of action:

Jus= t fix it.=A0 4.6 is the rule that wa= s intended, so it should read 4.6.=A0 This is the simplest solution, but isn’t exactly true to = the spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent.=A0 It occurred to me, too, to just = change it and not mention it to anybody; I’d probably have got away wit= h it and our lives would be easier.

Use= the “escape hatch” of =A71.2.=A0 I s= trongly prefer not to do this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies.

Pla= y on.=A0 My read on what happens then, is= that rule changes in the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political Capital this week. =A0There is still has time to get a “fix-up” bill on this week̵= 7;s Agenda.

Som= e kind of Court case.=A0 I don’t k= now what kind of case would fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but = some clever player might come up with one.

Suggestions?

------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300-- ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40-- From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 06 04:31:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 11:31:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 82507 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:31:15 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Royal Edit? Message-ID: <9fl4a3+is4a@e...> In-Reply-To: <009401c0ee6b$c89cbb40$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2447 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.247.108.109 From: mittnox@y... Bill: Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: Statute 6.3 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute=20 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount=20 equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in=20 favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his=20 Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public=20 Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP=20 and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have=20 gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current=20 version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute=20 is first passed, it is automatically repealed. Comments: I think this will fix the problem. I know self-repealing=20 Statutes aren't the greatest thing since Swiss cheese, but they have=20 their uses.=20 > Futz. I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset. This one=20 might be > a bigger deal than the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a=20 rule > we're going to use shortly. >=20=20 > From =A76.3: "Upon the publication of the results of a vote according=20 to > Statute 4.5 . . ." The problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time,=20 was > 4.6 when the game actually started. The results of a vote will=20 never be > published under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and=20 opening > voting. >=20=20 > I see several courses of action: >=20=20 > 1. Just fix it. 4.6 is the rule that was intended, so it should > read 4.6. This is the simplest solution, but isn't exactly true to=20 the > spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent. It occurred to me,=20 too, > to just change it and not mention it to anybody; I'd probably have=20 got > away with it and our lives would be easier. > 2. Use the "escape hatch" of =A71.2. I strongly prefer not to do > this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies. > 3. Play on. My read on what happens then, is that rule changes=20 in > the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political=20 Capital > this week. There is still has time to get a "fix-up" bill on this > week's Agenda. > 4. Some kind of Court case. I don't know what kind of case would > fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but some clever=20 player > might come up with one. >=20=20 > Suggestions? From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 04:58:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 11:58:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 42357 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606115825.GCGF12680.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:58:25 -0700 To: Subject: Bill 3 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:58:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c0ee80$10196c20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: <9fl4a3+is4a@e...> X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 3, below; I=92m required to republish it even though you just saw it. Public Opinion is a measly +5; few people seem to care about misprints. Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: =20 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. =20 Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) =20 Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed. =20 I must also say that the proposed 7.3 makes me a full-fledged believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don=92t like self-repealing rules. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill 3, below; I=92m required to republish it even though you just saw it.=A0 Public Opinion is a measly +5; few pe= ople seem to care about misprints.

Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, i= n full:

Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital= in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill.=A0 If an MP casts a vote in favor of a b= ill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital.=A0 If an MP casts a vote against a bill,= Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital.

Create Statute 7.3 (or the next availabl= e number, if 7.3 is taken)

Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King s= hall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed.

I must also say that the proposed 7.3 ma= kes me a full-fledged believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don=92t like self-repealing rules.

=A0

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40-- From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 06:08:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 13:08:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 82037 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 13:07:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 13:07:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 13:07:55 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606130755.IVSW12680.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:07:55 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Seated in Parliament Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:08:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c0ee89$c5e010a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome to Ectomorph, our newest Member. You may now take your seat in Parliament. ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Welcome to Ectomorph, our newest Member.=A0 You may now take your se= at in Parliament.

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0-- From ryan_shannon@y... Wed Jun 06 08:52:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 15:52:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 98320 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.2.230] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:52:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fljj3+b01f@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 801 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall share the same number with another statute. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for all the comments on my earlier ideas. I had complete brain failure on the numbering scheme. I think this bill solves the two statutes/one number problem that I was initialy concerned about. I'll submit this in a day if no one has any concerns. -Ryan From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 09:36:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 16:36:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 14445 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.123) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:05:19 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: [leg-nomic] Court case C1 (was Re: Voting/Polling) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 04:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: <006401c0ec03$ff90a360$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0EBE2.787F0360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2001 08:05:19.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE8DC7A0:01C0EC03] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360" ------=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the votes on his behalf count as tallying? I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts. But this is by no means unambiguous. Let's set precedent: =20 I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning of Statute 4.6. -- =20 For completeness=92 sake, this is what I get from Yahoo! (I guess Bill 999 fails. :-) ) =20 Choices=20 Votes=20 %=20 4 replies=20 Respondents=20 NAY=20 2=20 50.00%=20 htowsner@s... mittnox@y... ABSTAIN/UNDECIDED=20 1=20 25.00%=20 ryan_shannon@y... YEA=20 1=20 25.00%=20 sp4mnet@h... I had a long argument written for why the statement was FALSE. But I changed my mind. The relevant dictionary definition of =93tally=94 is =93to make a count of= =94 (www.m-w.com ). If one were to employ a piece of paper and pencil, and make hash marks to tally the votes, we would have no argument. The computer is simply a more sophisticated version of paper and pencil, in this case; it is a tool which the King employs in tallying the votes. I rule this statement to be TRUE. One could perhaps nitpick that my reasoning is not entirely consonant with the way Henry worded his statement. But it=92s close, and is consonant with the spirit of his statement, anyway ------=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

&nb= sp; We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the vo= tes on his behalf count as tallying? I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts. But this is by no means unambiguous. Let's set preceden= t:

I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning = of Statute 4.6.

--

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

For completeness=92 sake, this is what I get from Yahoo! (I guess Bill 999 fails. J )

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>

Choices

Votes

4 replies

Respondents

2 =

50.00% =

1 =

25.00% =

ry= an_shannon@y...

1 =

25.00% =

I had a long argument written for why the state= ment was FALSE. But I changed my m= ind.

The relevant dictionary definition of =93tally= =94 is =93to make a count of=94 (www.m-w.com). If one were to employ a piece= of paper and pencil, and make hash marks to tally the votes, we would have no argument. The computer is sim= ply a more sophisticated version of paper and pencil, in this case; it is a tool which the King employs in tallying the votes.

I rule this statement to be TRUE.

</judgment>

One could perhaps nitpick that my reasoning is = not entirely consonant with the way Henry worded his statement. But it=92s close, and is consonant with the spirit of his statement, anyway

<= /span>

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Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall share the same number with another statute. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Is 4.2 a number? Is 4.2.1 a number? If we want to allow things like X.Y.Z, this will probably not work.

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law

Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall be assigned a number that is identical to any other statute's number. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers. Of course, the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form.

I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference." and so on.

Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1?

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law

Welcome Ectomorph!

-Ryan

----- Original Message -----

Fro= m:=20 = Dan=20 Marsh

To: Legislative Nomic

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:0= 8=20 AM

Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in=20 Parliament

Welcome to Ectomor= ph, our=20 newest Member. You may now= take=20 your seat in Parliament.

<= /SPAN>

To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscri= be@yahoogroups.com

Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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Wed Jun 06 16:20:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 23:20:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 53231 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp011.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.31) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:20:19 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <023b01c0eedf$a94f5440$8ee50418@c...> To: References: <006d01c0ee3b$41dc1f40$70a20741@g...> Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:23:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0237_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0238_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0238_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome folks! -Ryan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Marsh=20 To: Legislative Nomic=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament Two new players, David Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston. You may take your = seats in Parliament. (If anyone=92s counting, that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.) =20=20=20 =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Yahoo! Website Services- Click Here!=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0238_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome folks! -Ryan ----- Original Message ----- Fro= m:=20 = Dan=20 Marsh To: Legislative Nomic Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:46= =20 PM Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in=20 Parliament Two new players, D= avid=20 Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston.&= nbsp;=20 You may take your seats in Parliament. (If anyone=92s count= ing,=20 that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.) <= /SPAN> To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscri= be@yahoogroups.com Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0238_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <023601c0eedf$a800b430$8ee50418@c...> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0237_01C0EEAD.5D9D32B0-- From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 06 16:43:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 23:43:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1200 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:43:06 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Seated in Parliament Message-ID: <9fmf6a+624q@e...> In-Reply-To: <023b01c0eedf$a94f5440$8ee50418@c...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 238 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > (If anyone's counting, that's ten players so far, and I make eleven.) Yeah, quit bragging. Mittnox (aka Captain Infinity, Moderator of the 4-man Nomic (which is, by the way, at www.geocities.com/mittnox/gods/ (shameless plug))). From sallyvacuum@y... Wed Jun 06 17:36:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 35282 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.2.207] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:36:45 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fmiat+r345@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fma2u+hvld@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1294 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., ryan_shannon@y... wrote: > --- In leg-nomic@y..., Henry Towsner wrote: > > Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and > > things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers. Of course, > > the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form. > > I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall > > have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference." and so on. > > > > Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules > > currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1? > > I don't mind the number system we have, but your right, we do need to > come up with a better name for it. How about "Statutory Identifier"? > > > ProtoBill ver 3 > This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No > statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to > any other statute's Statutory Identifier. > ....... > > Comments? > -Ryan From ryan_shannon@y... Thu Jun 07 07:40:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 14:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 74923 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:38:30 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fo3l6+24p5@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fmiat+r345@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 321 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., sallyvacuum@y... wrote: > Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic > ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a > legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. > It is a bit dry eh? We'll have to find poetry in its utility. :) -Ryan From jjweston@m... Thu Jun 07 08:58:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@m... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 15:58:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90117 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 15:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 15:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO megapathdsl.net) (216.200.176.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 15:57:39 -0000 Received: from [208.185.177.103] (HELO picard) by megapathdsl.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.3) with SMTP id 25785915 for leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:55:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010607085737.016df650@m...> X-Sender: jjweston@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:57:37 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: --ProtoBill-- In-Reply-To: <9fmiat+r345@e...> References: <9fma2u+hvld@e...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jeff Weston At 12:36 AM 6/7/2001 -0000, you wrote: >Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic >ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a >legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. I think poetry will have a higher Public Opinion. Who wants to read dry and boring rules? Poetic Rules sound much more interesting... :) - - - Jeffrey J. Weston jjweston@m... PGP Public Key : http://www.sir-toby.com/personal-key.asc - - - From miggs_ectomorph@y... Thu Jun 07 11:00:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 18:00:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 34548 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.2.208] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:00:32 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fofg0+4evf@e...> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010607085737.016df650@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 582 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., Jeff Weston wrote: > At 12:36 AM 6/7/2001 -0000, you wrote: > >Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic > >ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a > >legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. > > I think poetry will have a higher Public Opinion. Who wants to read dry > and boring rules? Poetic Rules sound much more interesting... :) > > - - - > Jeffrey J. Weston > jjweston@m... > PGP Public Key : http://www.sir-toby.com/personal-key.asc > - - - Right on! Ectomorph From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:00:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:00:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 80553 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607230038.KQPS12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:00:38 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bill 4 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:01:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c0efa5$bf0e4680$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9fo3pe+bvrg@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public Opinion: -3 -----Original Message----- From: ryan_shannon@y... [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...] This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutory Identifier for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read: A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statute, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:13:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 38257 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607231354.LHXO12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:13:54 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: This Week's Agenda - Voting Open Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:14:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c0efa7$997f2f40$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92m a day or so behind on the discussion, and about to go out of town for the weekend. =20 Because of this, I=92m publishing this week=92s agenda of Parliament, and opening voting, early. By statute, bills submitted to me by noon today were to have been published this coming Sunday, and voting opening then. What I=92m going to do is publish the Agenda now, and set up the polls on Yahoo!, and let folks hash out their votes and cast them. I=92m going to close voting on Wednesday, just as if I actually had published the Agenda on Sunday. (If you are really in the mood, wait until Sunday to cast your votes. :-)) =20 Voting will occur at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls . The polls will be there momentarily, and you should get a rash of mails about each of the polls opening. =20 Anyway, Bill 1 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +30 Founder's Day =20 Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. =20 Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. =20 All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. =20 Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) =96 Current Public Opinion +15 Create Statute 2.3, reading:=20 =20 Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.4, reading:=20 =20 Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:=20 =20 When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. At the time this rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:=20 =20 Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. Bill 3 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +5: Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: =20 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. =20 Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) =20 Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed. Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) =96 Current Public Opinion =963: This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: =20 Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. =20 A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutory Identifier for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. =20 Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read: =20 A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statute, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92m a day or so behind on the discussion, and about to go out of town for the weekend.<= /font> Because of this, I=92m publishing this week=92s agenda of Parliament, and opening voting, early. By statute, bills submitted to me = by noon today were to have been published thi= s coming Sunday, and voting opening then.&nb= sp; What I=92m going to do is publish the Agenda now, and set up the polls on Yahoo!, and let folks hash out their votes and cast them. I=92m going to close voting on Wednesday, just as if I actually had published the Agenda on Sunday. (If you are really in the mood, wa= it until Sunday to cast your votes. J) Voting will occur at http://groups.yahoo.= com/group/leg-nomic/polls . The polls will be there momentarily, and you should get a rash of mails about each of the polls opening. Anyway, Bill 1 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +30= Founder's Day Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus = of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) =96 Current Publi= c Opinion +15 Create Statute 2.3, reading: = Each player represents the Party Leader = for one Political Party. Thanks t= o perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at t= hat player's direction. Consequen= tly, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only t= o the Party Leaders. Create Statute 2.4, reading: = Each Political Party always has at least= one Seat in Parliament at all times. Create Statute 2.2.1, reading: When a player is first seated in Parliam= ent, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. At the time thi= s rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this ru= le, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament. Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full: Upon publication of the Agenda of Parlia= ment as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held = by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. Bill 3 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +5: Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, i= n full: Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital= in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in favor of = a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> If an MP casts a vote against a bi= ll, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital.= Create Statute 7.3 (or the next availabl= e number, if 7.3 is taken) Five seconds after this proposed statute= is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statu= te is first passed, it is automatically repealed. Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) =96 Current Public Opinion =963: This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full= , to read: Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifi= er that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. &= nbsp; A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutor= y Identifier for such statute. = If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to th= at effect to all players. Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read:= A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statut= e, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overtu= rn one or more Rulings of The Court. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:17:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 51461 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:17:03 -0000 Message-ID: <991955823.170.89498.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 1 (Mittnox) - Final Public Opinion +30 ---- Founder's Day Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. ---- o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:18:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 54558 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:18:43 -0000 Message-ID: <991955923.135.89490.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) � Current Public Opinion +15 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:19:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55876 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:19:23 -0000 Message-ID: <991955963.398.89706.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 3 (Mittnox) � Current Public Opinion +5 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:20:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34528 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:20:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:20:23 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:20:21 -0000 Message-ID: <991956021.268.89668.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) � Current Public Opinion �3 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:23:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 23852 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607232308.LSIW12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:23:08 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Votes Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c0efa8$e3a10a20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Votes are now open; your mailbox should have four poll notifications. =20 I had intended to put the text of the bill in each poll, but Yahoo! doesn=92t accommodate that well. (Formatting problems.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Votes are now open; your mailbox should = have four poll notifications. I had intended to put the text of the bi= ll in each poll, but Yahoo! doesn=92t accommodate that well.=A0 (Formatting probl= ems.) ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20-- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20-- From ryan_shannon@y... Thu Jun 07 21:43:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 04:43:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11584 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp016.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.113) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <03ae01c0efd6$06210140$8ee50418@c...> To: References: <000201c0efa5$bf0e4680$70a20741@g...> Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Bill 4 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:46:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted > shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few > citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public > Opinion: -3 I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They specifically said, "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to address certain concerns with statute 3.3. It is *very* important to us." dern ingrates. :-) -Ryan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From sallyvacuum@y... Fri Jun 08 10:07:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 17:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 90041 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 16:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 16:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 16:54:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2001 16:54:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:54:53 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 4 Message-ID: <9fr00t+3eje@e...> In-Reply-To: <03ae01c0efd6$06210140$8ee50418@c...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 927 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... I suppose you must be the elected MP representing the Nerd District! I'm sure your opponent stridently opposed Statutory Identifiers, preferring to assign colors and pictures to each law? :) Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Ryan Shannon" wrote: > > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted > > shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few > > citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public > > Opinion: -3 > > I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They > specifically said, > "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to address certain > concerns with statute > 3.3. It is *very* important to us." > > dern ingrates. > > :-) > -Ryan > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 09 18:05:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 69522 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5A15n416826 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:05:47 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Public Opinion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner Discussion seems to have spontaneously died for some reason, so I'd like to bring us back to implementing public opinion. Here's a sketch for a method I rather like: There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a little goofy (Broccoli). There is also a public stance on each issue, a value from +10 to -10. This would initially be set at random and could be manipulated via political capital. Some could later be tied to performance of different areas (things that make Parliament look weak might result in increased Royal Power ratings while excessive action by the king might make it less popular). Each bill would initially have a 0 rating for each issue. Political Capital could be spent to associate a bill with an issue (i.e. "The people can see that although this bill appears to just change the word 'teh' to 'the', it is really an attempt to undermine the royal authority which has been the root of our nation's greatness"). The association of a bill with an issue would range from -5 to +5. We could also eventually add a way to tie bills to ideas based on actual content. Of course, the final public opinion for a bill would be the sum of the public stance times the association of a bill with each issue. So if the public is +5 on royal power and a bill is considered -2 on royal power, the public opinion would be -10. If the bill also happened to be -1 on Broccoli while the public was -2, the final public opinion would be -8. Comments? -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 18:43:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 91629 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.188) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:43:13 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:43:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:43:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[E08201C0:01C0F217] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: mittnox@y... > > I must also say that the proposed 7.3 makes me a full-fledged > > believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don't like > > self-repealing rules. > >Why do you feel this way? ... Is it a style preference? > >Mittnox Well, in part, yes. In part, because real legislatures don't act this way (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). And in part, because it makes archiving the game harder; we must save rule 7.3 as well as the bill which created it. But mostly, it just seems sloppy to me. (So maybe it's just a style preference: "poor form." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 18:49:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 5324 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.242) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:49:43 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:49:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:49:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 01:49:43.0977 (UTC) FILETIME=[C97AA990:01C0F218] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: miggs_ectomorph@y... >Subject: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... > >... I admit to not remembering all the rules. 'Sok -- even I, your King, who wrote the initial ruleset, have to check the rules often. And between times checking the ruleset, I operate under sort-of what I remember the rules to be. I refer to my Nomic playing style as that of an intellectualy lazy strict constructionist. :-) I like your God idea, generally, and would welcome the automation of public opinion. I would particularly welcome a 'bot which would take care of expenditures of political capital to influence public opinion, but such is beyond my Web expertise. (It's amazing how quickly one goes from computer whiz-kid to computer old-fogey.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:08:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 12363 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.148) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:08:19 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:08:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Bill 4 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:08:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[62249FA0:01C0F21B] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: "Ryan Shannon" > > > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. . . . Public Opinion is thoroughly > > apathetic to this bill. The few citizens who have even read it, > > don't seem to care much. Initial Public Opinion: -3 > >I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They >specifically said, "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to >address certain concerns with statute 3.3. It is *very* important to >us." If it makes you feel better, PO would probably have been +3 had I been caught up on the discussion; referring to 4.9.1 as a "number" is indeed odd. Even so, though, the citizenry can't be said to care much. DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jjweston@k... Sun Jun 10 19:09:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@k... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:09:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 42958 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kenny.sir-toby.com) (208.185.177.103) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (jjweston@l...) by kenny.sir-toby.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f5B23vi19787 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:03:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: "Jeffrey J. Weston" On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Dan Marsh wrote: > I like your God idea, generally, and would welcome the automation of public > opinion. I would particularly welcome a 'bot which would take care of > expenditures of political capital to influence public opinion, but such is > beyond my Web expertise. (It's amazing how quickly one goes from computer > whiz-kid to computer old-fogey.) I have experience with PHP and mySQL databases. I could probably whip up some web-based automation if needed. From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:14:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:14:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 25472 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:14:12 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:14:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:14:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 02:14:12.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[34F436C0:01C0F21C] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: Henry Towsner > > Discussion seems to have spontaneously died for some reason, >so I'd like to bring us back to implementing public opinion. Here's >a sketch for a method I rather like: Obviously, discussion died because I wasn't here commenting on things, hourly. That'll teach ME to leave town for the weekend. (BTW, I also expect to be out of town next weekend. However, I think I will be able to follow the rules more closely this weekend. > There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be >actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a >little goofy (Broccoli). . . . Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations? DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:20:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:20:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 39490 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:20:54 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010611022051.EKAE29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:20:51 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bills 5, 6 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:21:43 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c0f21d$421c53e0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Voting on bills 1-4 is ongoing (thru Wednesday) at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls . I have also received the following bills. (I suspect bill 5 actually made it before the deadline last Thursday, but I missed it. Apologies; it will go onto the next ballot with plenty of time for discussion). =20 Bill 5 (Cappocchi) =96 Initial Public Opinion -15 (fairly anti-democratic): Statute 3.5.1 - Royal Editing Privilege The King may edit Statutes, or Bills on the Agenda or Parliament, for clarity or grammar. All such Royal Edits must be published by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Agenda of Parliament. Each Royal Edit must list the Statute or Bill both in its original and corrected forms, and delineate the reason for the Royal Edit.=20=20 =20 A Royal Edit becomes effective immediately upon its publication. Any Member of Parliament may appeal a Royal Edit by bringing a Case before the Court. Such appeals shall be decided in a timely fashion in the manner consistent with other Cases before the Court. =20 Bill 6 (Henry Towsner) =96 Initial Public Opinion +10 (moderately pro-democratic): Create Statute 4.10, reading=20 =20 Acts of Parliament are documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution. No creation of an Act of Parliament is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the time of execution. An Act of Parliament consists of one or more proposals. Each Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference. The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unless that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which had just passed with a majority of votes. Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority to take effect.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill may include one or more proposals. Each proposal is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following:=20 1) Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute=20 2) Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court=20 3) Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament=20 4) Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rules provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill or bill segment which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill or bill segment which creates, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill or bill segment which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Voting on bills 1-4 is ongoing (thru Wednesday) at htt= p://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls . I have also received the following bills. (I suspect b= ill 5 actually made it before the deadline last Thursday, but I missed it. Apologies; it will go onto the nex= t ballot with plenty of time for discussion). Bill 5 (Cappocchi) =96 Initial Public Opinion -15 (fairly anti-democratic):<= /font> Statute 3.5.1 - Royal Editing Privilege<= o:p> The King may edit Sta= tutes, or Bills on the Agenda or Parliament, for clarity or grammar. All such Royal Edits must be publi= shed by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Age= nda of Parliament. Each Royal Edit must list the Statute or Bill both in its original and corrected forms, and delineate the reason for the Royal Edit.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> A Royal Edit becomes effective immediately upon its publication. Any Member of Parliament may appea= l a Royal Edit by bringing a Case before the Court. Such appeals shall be decided in a timely fashion in the manner consistent with other Cases before the Court.<= o:p> Bill 6 (Henry Towsn= er) =96 Initial Public Opinion +10 (moderately pro-democratic): Create Statute 4.10, reading = Acts of Parliament ar= e documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution. No creation of an Act of Parliamen= t is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the t= ime of execution. An Act of Parli= ament consists of one or more proposals. Eac= h Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference. The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unl= ess that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which= had just passed with a majority of votes. = ; Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority= to take effect. Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full = A bill may include on= e or more proposals. Each proposal= is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following: 1) = ; Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute = 2) = ; Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court 3) = ; Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament 4) = ; Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rul= es provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action. <= /span> Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full A bill or bill segmen= t which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass = if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill or bill segment which creat= es, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys,= or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has re= ceived a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private= . Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full A bill or bill segmen= t which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates= , destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules sh= all pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor.= ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0-- From htowsner@s... Sun Jun 10 19:30:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 58361 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5B2U4H27295 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:30:00 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1219895892==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1219895892==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be >>actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a >>little goofy (Broccoli). . . . > >Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we >commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations? A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software. Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219895892==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion > There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be >actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a >little goofy (Broccoli). . . . Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations? A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software. Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python. -- Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...> Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219895892==_ma============-- From jjweston@k... Sun Jun 10 20:07:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@k... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 03:07:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24985 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kenny.sir-toby.com) (208.185.177.103) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (jjweston@l...) by kenny.sir-toby.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f5B32eR19939 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:02:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:02:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: "Jeffrey J. Weston" On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Henry Towsner wrote: > A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think > it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture > it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a > shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software. > > Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, > although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another > option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what > I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another > option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since > it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python. Never heard of Zope, so no input from me there. I've worked quite a bit with Java Servlets for my job, so I consider myself fairly skilled with them, and with the Java language in general. However, I feel that using Java Servlets for something like this may be like killing a fly with a flamethrower. It's probably more power than we really need. I still prefer PHP for smaller projects, and in fact haven't seen a reason why it can't be used on larger projects... Of course, there are questions about who is going to build such a bot. Multiple people, or just one person? If its just one, it probably doesn't matter too much what they use. Of course, if they go AWOL, who would be able to maintain it? If multiple people were to work on it, they'd have to all agree on the same tools. I suppose the question comes down to, who would be willing to do such work? What tools do you prefer? What tools *can* you work with? What tools can you *not* work with, or refuse to work with? Oh yes, one more thing... The game of Nomic can be quite a slavedriver when it comes to keeping software up to do with the rules. Whoever works on the bot should keep this in mind. For me, I would be willing to do such work. I would prefer PHP/mySQL. However, I am also capable of working with Java Servlets. Heck, if we get serious about this, we could probably open up a project on sourceforge.net and get all sorts of project management functionality through them... ;-) From htowsner@s... Sun Jun 10 20:14:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 03:14:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 96450 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5B3Eb416406 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:14:34 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner My suspicion is that if we start using computer programs, it will slowly expand to be responsible for most of the game, and we want it to be able to handle whatever we need it to handle. As for who would build it, my inclination would be to insist that as many players as possible be involved enough that they could take over maintenance. One person might direct the project and handle much of the coding, but we definitely don't want to be dependant on anyone. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 11 13:10:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 20:10:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 14586 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dmarsh3000@h... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:01:17 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Be sure to vote Message-ID: <9g382d+va92@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 309 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.7.162.112 From: "Dan Marsh" I've checked the voting -- 5 votes received on each bill, which is only about half. Remember to vote. And those who've voted, be sure you've voted on all bills: I see that Dylan has voted on Bill 1 and none of the remainder, and Ryan on all BUT bill 1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls DM From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jun 12 09:03:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56179 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.81] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 14483 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Message-ID: <992361725.3784.14467.a16@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: calendar From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Reminder - Voting on Bills 1-4 ends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Voting on Bills 1-4 ends Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 Time: 12:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Be sure to vote! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls From mittnox@y... Tue Jun 12 09:17:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 16:17:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 4546 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:17:28 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 3 Message-ID: <9g5fao+ru6f@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 580 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > >Why do you feel this way? ... Is it a style preference? > > Well, in part, yes. In part, because real legislatures don't act this way > (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). And in part, > because it makes archiving the game harder; we must save rule 7.3 as well as > the bill which created it. But mostly, it just seems sloppy to me. (So > maybe it's just a style preference: "poor form." But don't real legislatures make laws which create programs that automatically lapse unless they are re-approved? Isn't that a similar thing? Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 12 13:39:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 20:39:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 21662 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.89) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:39:14 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:39:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:39:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE218D80:01C0F37F] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: mittnox@y... > > In part, because real legislatures don't act this way > > (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). > >But don't real legislatures make laws which create programs that >automatically lapse unless they are re-approved? Isn't that a similar >thing? > >Mittnox Well, OK, you've got me. But I'm not of the impression that those laws go away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act. My best example is the Michigan State Constitution. The 1963 constitution includes temporary sections (http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), designed to tide the state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred. However, these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution. DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 12 14:56:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 21:56:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 66091 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 21:56:38 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5CLuc401188 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:56:35 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1219739498==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1219739498==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Well, OK, you've got me. But I'm not of the impression that those laws go >away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act. > >My best example is the Michigan State Constitution. The 1963 constitution >includes temporary sections >(http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), >designed to tide the >state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred. However, >these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution. I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219739498==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Well, OK, you've got me. But I'm not of the impression that those laws go away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act. My best example is the Michigan State Constitution. The 1963 constitution includes temporary sections (http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), designed to tide the state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred. However, these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution. I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...> Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219739498==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 12 17:07:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 00:07:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 86091 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010612233737.UFAX29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:37:37 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Bill 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c0f398$c0e9cbe0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I held the Michigan Constitution as my example because, well, in my political days, guess where I worked? I do agree that broadly speaking we should forge our own path, however, rather than imitate one system or another. =20 In any case, we seem to have agreement that self-repealing rules are at best awkward. I=92m not sure how Public Opinion would react to this general feeling on our part; perhaps we=92ll find out. =20 Speaking of public opinion, I should perhaps say that while Bill 5 has a Public Opinion of -15, your King is very much for it. We aren=92t up to voting on Bill 5 yet, but I wanted to restate that Public Opinion is not always my opinion. I strongly favor someone having editing privileges. -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 I held the Michigan Constitution as my example because, well, in my political days, gue= ss where I worked? I do agree th= at broadly speaking we should forge our own path, however, rather than imitate= one system or another. In any case, we seem to have agreement t= hat self-repealing rules are at best awkward.&= nbsp; I=92m not sure how Public Opinion would react to this general feeling on our part; perhaps we=92ll find out. Speaking of public opinion, I should per= haps say that while Bill 5 has a Public Opinion of -15, your King is very much for it. We aren=92t up to voting on Bill 5 yet, but I wanted to restate that Public Opinion is not always my opinion.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I strongly favor someon= e having editing privileges. -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...] I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Su= nset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...= du> ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 09:24:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32794 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.81] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2001 16:07:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 23695 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Date: 13 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Message-ID: <992448127.6687.23692.a16@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: calendar From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Reminder - Bill Submission Deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Bill Submission Deadline Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 Time: 12:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Submit bills to the King by noon Thursday to get them onto the current week's Agenda. From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 13 10:34:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 17:34:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 89685 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.132] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:23:59 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 3 Message-ID: <9g87jf+c4nt@e...> In-Reply-To: <001501c0f398$c0e9cbe0$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 61 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 13 14:10:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 21:10:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 92000 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010613211006.BJCH29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:10:06 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:10:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c0f44d$5019c860$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <9g87jf+c4nt@e...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why, so there is. =20 (1) Game custom has not developed around whether bills can be amended after submission. My conception was that MPs would devise a system of amendments sort of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in real legislatures. But can a bill be amended by its author while it=92s on the Agenda? My immediate thoughts are, No. (2) If the bill passes in its current form, the rule does not break unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to be meaningless. The King still has the power to make Royal Edits. If he also chooses to publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better. (3) Cappocchi himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday. If someone decides to put a question similar to that posed in either point above, he may get to decide it. (Should there be a rule about The Court recusing itself in some cases?) =20 -----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]=20 There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. Mittnox =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why, so there is. (1) = ; Game custom has not developed around w= hether bills can be amended after submission.&nbs= p; My conception was that MPs would devise a system of amendments sort = of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in real legislatures. But can a bill be amended by its a= uthor while it=92s on the Agenda? M= y immediate thoughts are, No. (2) = ; If the bill passes in its current form= , the rule does not break unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to b= e meaningless. The King still h= as the power to make Royal Edits. If= he also chooses to publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better.= (3) = ; Cappocchi<= /span> himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday. If someone decides to= put a question similar to that posed in either point above, he may get to decide = it. (Should there be a rule about The = Court recusing itself in some cases?) <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ; -----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...] There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5= . Mi= ttnox ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020-- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020-- From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 13 20:43:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 Jun 2001 03:43:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 82305 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010614034230.FIBJ12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:42:30 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Voting Results: Bills 1 - 4 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:43:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c0f484$22423a80$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 1 (Mittnox): 9-0-0 in favor. Cappocchi, Mittnox, Henry, Ryan, BallTurret, Madison, Kevan, Dylan, and Jeffrey J. Weston all gain 30 political capital (or will once Bill 3 passes). The text of Bill 1 I am assigning Statute Number 1.3, as per =A73.3. =20 Bill 2 (Henry Towsner): 7-0-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Kevan, BallTurret, Cappocchi, Jeffrey J. Weston, and Madison all gain 15 political capital. Mittnox (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. =A7=A72.2.1, 2.3, and 2.4 are added t= o the ruleset, and =A74.6 is amended. As per new =A72.2.1, each MPs now has ten seats in Parliament. I put up for discussion: by the wording of =A72.2.1, does the King also get seats in Parliament? I don=92t yet want t= o submit this to The Court, because that=92s me, for the moment. =20 Bill 3 (Mittnox): 6-1-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, Kevan, BallTurret, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all gain 5 political capital. Cappocchi (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. Madison (who OPPOSEd) loses 5. =A76.3 is fixed (thanks, Mittnox). =A77.3 comes into existence, has effect= , and repeals itself, as per its text. =20 Bill 4 (Ryan): 6-1-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, BallTurret, Cappocchi, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all lose 3 political capital. Kevan (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. Madison (who OPPOSEd) gains 3. =A7=A73.3 and 4.4 are amended; Statute Numbers are now Statutory Identifiers. =20 You should get poll results from the group in about 20 minutes; I=92m working on the Web page as I write this.=20 =20=20=20=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 1 (Mittnox):=A0 9-0-0 in favor.=A0 Cappocchi= , Mittnox, Henry, Ryan, BallTurret= , Madison, Kevan, Dylan, and Jeffrey J. Weston all gain 30 political capital (or will once Bill 3 passes).=A0 The text of Bill 1 I am assigning Sta= tute Number 1.3, as per =A73.3. Bill 2 (Henry Towsn= er): 7-0-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Kev= an, BallTurret, Cappocchi, Je= ffrey J. Weston, and Madison all gain 15 political capital.=A0 Mittnox (= who voted PRESENT) gains 0.=A0 =A7=A72.2.1, 2= .3, and 2.4 are added to the ruleset, and =A74.6 is amended= .=A0 As per new =A72.2.1, each MPs now has= ten seats in Parliament.=A0 I put up for disc= ussion: by the wording of =A72.2.1, does the King also get seats in Parliament?=A0 I don’t yet want to submit this= to The Court, because that’s me, for the moment. Bill 3 (Mittnox): 6-1-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, Kevan, BallTurret, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all gain 5 politic= al capital.=A0 Cappocchi (who voted PRESENT) gains 0.=A0 Madison (who OPP= OSEd) loses 5.=A0 =A76.3 is fixed (thanks, Mittnox).=A0 =A77.3 comes into existence, has effect, and repeals itself, as per its text. Bill 4 (Ryan): 6-1-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, BallTurret, Cappocchi, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all lose 3 political capital.=A0 Kevan (who voted PRESENT) gains 0.= =A0 Madison (who OPPOSEd) gains 3.=A0 =A7=A73.3 and 4.4 are amended; Statut= e Numbers are now Statutory Identifiers. You should get poll results from the gro= up in about 20 minutes; I’m working on the Web page as I write this. =A0=A0 = =A0 ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:43 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82977 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <992493162.291.68388.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 1 (Mittnox) - Final Public Opinion +30 CHOICES AND RESULTS - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 0 votes, 0.00% - FAVOR, 9 votes, 100.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - OPPOSE - PRESENT (no vote) - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - mittnox@y... - kevan@s... - dbaker@b... - sp4mnet@h... - ryan_shannon@y... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - cactusdave_2000@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:48 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83133 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:47 -0000 Message-ID: <992493167.199.68388.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) � Current Public Opinion +15 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 7 votes, 87.50% - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - kevan@s... - sp4mnet@h... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - cactusdave_2000@y... - OPPOSE - PRESENT (no vote) - mittnox@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83313 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:53 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:50 -0000 Message-ID: <992493170.252.68318.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 3 (Mittnox) � Current Public Opinion +5 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 6 votes, 75.00% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 12.50% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - mittnox@y... - kevan@s... - sp4mnet@h... - jjweston@k... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - sallyvacuum@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:59 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 71887 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:58 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:53 -0000 Message-ID: <992493173.88.68318.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) � Current Public Opinion �3 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 6 votes, 75.00% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 12.50% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - mittnox@y... - sp4mnet@h... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - kevan@s... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From sallyvacuum@y... Thu Jun 14 10:43:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 83376 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:31 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:43:29 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 5? Message-ID: <9gat41+v0tp@e...> In-Reply-To: <000201c0f44d$5019c860$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1609 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times now and I don't see any typo. The second sentence of Bill 5 is: "All such Royal Edits must be published by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Agenda of Parliament. " Is it a grammar rather than spelling error? In which case I confess that the sentence could be clearer, (you don't really publish things "to" someone, do you?) but I don't see why it wouldn't be effective. More comments please? Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Dan Marsh" wrote: > Why, so there is. > > (1) Game custom has not developed around whether bills can be amended > after submission. My conception was that MPs would devise a system of > amendments sort of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in > real legislatures. But can a bill be amended by its author while it's > on the Agenda? My immediate thoughts are, No. > (2) If the bill passes in its current form, the rule does not break > unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to be meaningless. > The King still has the power to make Royal Edits. If he also chooses to > publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better. > (3) Cappocchi himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday. If someone > decides to put a question similar to that posed in either point above, > he may get to decide it. (Should there be a rule about The Court > recusing itself in some cases?) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...] > > > There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. > > Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 14 21:39:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 15111 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010615043924.ZWYO12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:39:24 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 5? Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:40:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c0f555$42e98780$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <9gat41+v0tp@e...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =93All such Royal Edis must be published . . .=94 =20 You skipped a letter. Not a big deal, stuff happens. The problem is that we=92ve set no procedure for amending bills on the Agenda. =20 I=92ve seen =93close enough=94 rules in some Nomics, which try to get acros= s =93ignore misspellings,=94 but they have turned out not to work as intended= . -----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y... [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:43 PM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 5? =20 What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times now and I don't see=20 any typo. Cappocchi=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=93= All such Royal Edis must be published . . .=94= You skipped a letter. Not a big deal, stuff happens. The problem is that we=92ve set no procedure for amending bills on the Agenda.<= o:p> I=92ve seen =93close enough=94 rules in some Nomics, which try to get across =93ignore misspelling= s,=94 but they have turned out not to work as intended. -----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y...= [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...] Sent= : Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:43 PM To: leg-nomic@y...= m Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Bil= l 5? What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times n= ow and I don't see any typo. Cappocchi ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780-- From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 14 21:56:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 04:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 34148 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010615045602.PMK12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:56:02 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Thoughts, musings, questions, and exhortations Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:56:48 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c0f557$95d50760$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20" ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I=92m surprised to see nobody expending Political Capital, now that MPs have some, to affect Bills 5 and 6. Do the bills not really matter to anyone, or do you simply feel that the PC you have won=92t change PO much on these bills? =20 I know there are some other ideas for bills out there. We have a fair number of players, so I=92d expect some lively debate on the virtue of, say, political parties. (On that, I=92ve heard some debate privately, but nothing yet to the group, and certainly no proposed bill.) =20 In private discussion I=92ve heard suggestions for filibustering, creating a cabinet, and other things, but no bills yet (or even proposed bills). I=92m particularly interested in seeing bills from MPs who are not Nomic regulars, although the crowd I promoted the group to does contain of a number of regulars. =20 I=92d also like to make a suggestion for a bill: Amend =A74.5 to =93at least one day,=94 so that voting doesn=92t close almost immediately before the deadline for the next round of bills. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I’m surprised to see nobody expend= ing Political Capital, now that MPs have some, to affect Bills 5 and 6.=A0 Do the bills not really matter to any= one, or do you simply feel that the PC you have won’t change PO much on these bills? I know there are some other ideas for bi= lls out there.=A0 We have a fair number= of players, so I’d expect some lively debate on the virtue of, say, political parties.=A0 (On that, I&#= 8217;ve heard some debate privately, but nothing yet to the group, and certainly no proposed bill.) In private discussion I’ve heard s= uggestions for filibustering, creating a cabinet, and other things, but no bills yet (= or even proposed bills).=A0 I’m particularly interested in seeing bills from MPs who are not Nomic regulars, although the crowd I promoted the group to does contain of a numb= er of regulars. I’d also like to make a suggestion= for a bill:=A0 Amend =A74.5 = to “at least one day,” so that voting doesn’t close almost immediately before the deadline for the next round of bills. ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760-- From htowsner@s... Fri Jun 15 22:14:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@S... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 36984 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal0.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.15.238) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: (from htowsner@l...) by cardinal0.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f5G5EqE12819; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Proto-Proposal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Henry P Towsner This would create the administrative architecture which will become necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about. Create Statute 8.1, reading Directorships are positions defined by Parliament. Because they are apolitical in nature, they are appointed by the King and serve at the King's discretion. A directorship defined in the statutes shall have a specific list of duties which the director who holds that position shall be responsible for carrying out. A director may appoint assistant directors, who shall serve at the director's whim, but the King may override any decision regarding the appointment or removal of an assistant director. A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring they their duties are carried out. A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the royal treasury at the King's discretion. Create Statute 8.2, reading The Technical Director is a directorship. The Technical Director shall be responsible for the implementation of such software as is required to carry out the will of Parliament. From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 15 22:36:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 05:36:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 21998 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010616053634.YSUD4833.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:36:34 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Proto-Proposal Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:37:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c0f626$69ecf160$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sort-of expected Parliament to elect its officers (or cabinet). I have no problem with appointing them, but I=92m curious as to what the will of Parliament is on that issue. =20 Should the proposed 8.1 be split into several Statutes? For example, one statute could cover appointment (or whatever) of directors, while another covers assistant directors, and a third covers the specification of directors=92 responsibilities. This is a style choice, but I like to be able to tweak the =93variables=94 of a game individually. =20 (I=92ve been reading a lot of programming stuff, lately, which is probably why =93variables=94 occurred to me. In particular, the type of programming I=92ve been reading about is the creation of old-style text adventures, =E1 la Zork and the other Infocom classics of the early- to mid-80s. It just occurred to me that creating these types of games is similar to participating in a Nomic; one creates a world. This feels sort of incestuous, in a sense: MUDs are/were an attempt to turn the =93Zork=94 concept into a multiplayer experience; they are one successor to Zork and its ilk. And of course, the first (known) large-scale Nomic game online was =93Nomic World,=94 which took place on a MUD. I wonder why it is, that I find this fascination with world-building?) =20 -----Original Message----- From: Henry P Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 1:15 AM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject:=20 =20 This would create the administrative architecture which will become necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about. Create Statute 8.1, reading Directorships are positions defined by Parliament. Because they are apolitical in nature, they are appointed by the King and serve at the King's discretion. A directorship defined in the statutes shall have a specific list of duties which the director who holds that position shall be responsible for carrying out. A director may appoint assistant directors, who shall serve at the director's whim, but the King may override any decision regarding the appointment or removal of an assistant director. A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring they their duties are carried out. A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the royal treasury at the King's discretion. Create Statute 8.2, reading The Technical Director is a directorship. The Technical Director shall be responsible for the implementation of such software as is required to carry out the will of Parliament. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor =20 Click for Details Click for Details =20 =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sort-of expected Parliament to elect i= ts officers (or cabinet).=A0 I have no= problem with appointing them, but I’m curious as to what the will of Parliame= nt is on that issue. Should the proposed 8.1 be split into several Statutes?=A0 For example, o= ne statute could cover appointment (or whatever) of directors, while another covers assistant directors, and a third covers the specification of directo= rs’ responsibilities.=A0 This is a styl= e choice, but I like to be able to tweak the “variables” of a gam= e individually. (I’ve been reading a lot of programming stuff, lately, which is probably why “variables” occurred to me.=A0 In particular, t= he type of programming I’ve been reading about is the creation of old-style t= ext adventures, =E1 la Zork and the other Infocom classics of the early- to mid-80s.=A0 It just occurred to me that creating = these types of games is similar to participating in a Nomic; one creates a world.=A0 This feels sort of incest= uous, in a sense:=A0 MU= Ds are/were an attempt to turn the “ZorkR= 21; concept into a multiplayer experience; they are one successor to Zork and its ilk.=A0 And of course, the first (known) large-scale Nomic game online was &= #8220;Nomic World,” which took place on a MUD.= =A0 I wonder why it is, that I find this fascination with world-building?) <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ; -----Original Message----- From: Henry P Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 <= /font>1:15 AM To: leg-nomic@y...= m Subject: This would create the administrative architectur= e which will become necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about. Create Statute 8.1, reading Directorships= are positions defined by Parliament. Because they are apolitical in nature, they are appointed= by the King and serve at the King's discretion. A directorship defi= ned in the statutes shall have a specific list of duties which the director w= ho holds that position shall be responsible for carrying out. A dir= ector may appoint assistant directors, who shall serve at the director's= whim, but the King may override any decision regarding the appointm= ent or removal of an assistant director. A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring they their duties are carried out. A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the royal treasury at the King's discretion. Create Statute 8.2, reading The Technical Director is a directorship. The Technical Director shall be responsible for the implementation = of such software as is required to carry out the will of Parliament= . To unsubscribe from t= his group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com= Yo= ur use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280-- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160-- From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 16 09:04:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@S... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 16:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34704 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal0.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.15.238) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: (from htowsner@l...) by cardinal0.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f5GG3PT07106; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] RE: Proto-Proposal In-Reply-To: <000a01c0f626$69ecf160$70a20741@g...> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Henry P Towsner The reason I suggested that the Directors be appointed is that they're administrative, non-political positions. They should be chosen based on technical skills rather than politics, which is why it makes more sense for the King to select them. The other reason I like this is because if the administrative positions which we need to make the game run are "protected" then we can be free to abuse and manipulate the political positions as much as we want for our own entertainment. From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 17 20:49:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25221 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Date: 18 Jun 2001 03:49:16 -0000 Message-ID: <992836156.322.64974.ac@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 5 (Royal Editing Privelege, Cappocchi) -- Final Public Opinion -15 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 17 20:50:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57689 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Date: 18 Jun 2001 03:50:18 -0000 Message-ID: <992836218.654.64955.ac@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 6 (Acts of Parliament, Henry Towsner) -- Final Public Opinion +10 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 17 20:51:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 75660 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010618035155.UVFE4833.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:51:55 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Voting open, Bills 5-6 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 23:52:53 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c0f7aa$2775b3a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Voting is open on Bills 5 and 6, a few hours late. In any case, it will close around midnight Wednesday night, now. Looking forward to more bills - - - ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Voting is open on Bills 5 and 6, a few h= ours late.=A0 In any case, it will close= around midnight= Wednesday night, now. Looking forward to more bills=A0 - - - ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0-- From mittnox@y... Mon Jun 18 15:19:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 Jun 2001 22:19:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 61475 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 22:18:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:18:51 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proto-bill Message-ID: <9gluob+pmss@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2012 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.5.239.178 From: mittnox@y... Here is a Proto-bill: "Statute 2.5 >From time to time, the Law may allow Members of Parliament to lose their party affiliation. Such Members of Parliament are known as 'unaligned,' and vote based on public opinion as follows: If public opinion on a bill is positive, unaligned MPs will vote FOR the bill. If public opinion on a bill is negative, unaligned MPs will vote AGAINST the bill. If public opinion on a bill is zero, unaligned MPs will declare PRESENCE on the bill. Statute 2.6 Immediately after political capital is calculated for each Agenda, the King shall announce the beginning of the MP Auction. The auction shall last until the next Agenda of Parliament is posted. During the MP Auction, each Party Leader may, if he wishes, communicate to the King a bid of a positive amount of political capital. He may change his bid at any time before the Auction ends by alerting the King of his desire to do so, and of his new bid. When the MP Auction ends, the amount of political capital bid by each Party Leader is subtracted from his party's political capital total. Statute 2.7 Immediately after the close of each MP Auction, one MP from each political party having at least two members will become unaligned unless it's Party Leader bid at least 1 political capital in the MP Auction. Statute 2.8 For every set of equal bids in each MP Auction, one new seat in Parliament is created. The MP holding the seat is unaligned. Statute 2.9 If there are unaligned MPs in Parliament, they might join political parties based on the ratio of (Political Capital the party's Leader bid in the MP Auction) to (Seats in Parliament). The party whose ratio is highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP, plus a second if there are three or more total unaligned MPs. If there are two or more unaligned MPs, the political party whose ratio is the second highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP. Unaligned MPs who join political parties are no longer unaligned." From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 20 12:18:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 20 Jun 2001 19:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 1887 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (64.211.240.230) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.163] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:17:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proto-bill Message-ID: <9gqsrf+ciug@e...> In-Reply-To: <9gluob+pmss@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2466 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Hey...there's been no discussion on my proto-bill, so I thought I'd start some. I know it would add a new layer of complexity to Leg-Nomic, but is that a bad thing? The only point to having political parties is if they have the possibility of becoming unequal in some way...this is a way that can happen. What do you think? Mittnox > Here is a Proto-bill: > > > "Statute 2.5 > > From time to time, the Law may allow Members of Parliament to lose > their party affiliation. Such Members of Parliament are known > as 'unaligned,' and vote based on public opinion as follows: > > If public opinion on a bill is positive, unaligned MPs will vote FOR > the bill. > > If public opinion on a bill is negative, unaligned MPs will vote > AGAINST the bill. > > If public opinion on a bill is zero, unaligned MPs will declare > PRESENCE on the bill. > > Statute 2.6 > > Immediately after political capital is calculated for each Agenda, > the King shall announce the beginning of the MP Auction. The auction > shall last until the next Agenda of Parliament is posted. > > During the MP Auction, each Party Leader may, if he wishes, > communicate to the King a bid of a positive amount of political > capital. He may change his bid at any time before the Auction ends by > alerting the King of his desire to do so, and of his new bid. > > When the MP Auction ends, the amount of political capital bid by each > Party Leader is subtracted from his party's political capital total. > > Statute 2.7 > > Immediately after the close of each MP Auction, one MP from each > political party having at least two members will become unaligned > unless it's Party Leader bid at least 1 political capital in the MP > Auction. > > Statute 2.8 > > For every set of equal bids in each MP Auction, one new seat in > Parliament is created. The MP holding the seat is unaligned. > > Statute 2.9 > > If there are unaligned MPs in Parliament, they might join political > parties based on the ratio of (Political Capital the party's Leader > bid in the MP Auction) to (Seats in Parliament). The party whose > ratio is highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP, plus a > second if there are three or more total unaligned MPs. If there are > two or more unaligned MPs, the political party whose ratio is the > second highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP. > > Unaligned MPs who join political parties are no longer unaligned." From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 21 00:13:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68800 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Date: 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Message-ID: <993107589.8.45155.l9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 5 (Royal Editing Privelege, Cappocchi) -- Final Public Opinion -15 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 1 votes, 33.33% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 33.33% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 33.33% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - sallyvacuum@y... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - mittnox@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 21 00:13:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68808 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Date: 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Message-ID: <993107589.9.45155.l9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 6 (Acts of Parliament, Henry Towsner) -- Final Public Opinion +10 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 2 votes, 100.00% - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From mittnox@y... Tue Jun 26 13:48:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 26 Jun 2001 20:48:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 41871 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.68] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:47:55 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: ??? Message-ID: <9hasdr+scnd@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 43 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Is there anything happening here? Mittnox From jmorgantx@p... Sun Dec 02 17:19:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmorgantx@p... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 86239 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jmorgantx@p... Received: from [10.1.4.22] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 01:19:54 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: SPAM- A Pure n_omic Message-ID: <9uejvq+bop1@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 639 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.254.176.16 From: jmorgantx@p... X-Yahoo-Profile: redneck_penguin Season's Greetings, I am very interested in playing a very short round (in the neighbourhood of one or two months long) of Nomic based upon the Pure Nomic ruleset. The Pure Nomic ruleset is: 1. All players must agree to any changes to the game. 2. Players take turns suggesting a new rule. I would like to play this during the holiday season when many folks are home from university and have time to play. I think play should begin when five people are interested. Please contact me at jmorgantx@p... or view the slightly cluttered n_omic site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n_omic Thank you for your time, Jim Morgan From jmorgantx@p... Sun Dec 02 17:20:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmorgantx@p... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7518 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jmorgantx@p... Received: from [10.1.10.99] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: SPAM- A Pure n_omic Message-ID: <9uek08+t7e8@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 639 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.254.176.16 From: jmorgantx@p... X-Yahoo-Profile: redneck_penguin Season's Greetings, I am very interested in playing a very short round (in the neighbourhood of one or two months long) of Nomic based upon the Pure Nomic ruleset. The Pure Nomic ruleset is: 1. All players must agree to any changes to the game. 2. Players take turns suggesting a new rule. I would like to play this during the holiday season when many folks are home from university and have time to play. I think play should begin when five people are interested. Please contact me at jmorgantx@p... or view the slightly cluttered n_omic site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n_omic Thank you for your time, Jim Morgan From jayuehd34@y... Thu Apr 18 23:45:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jayuehd34@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 19 Apr 2002 06:45:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 82920 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: try this out Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 228 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jayuehd34" X-Originating-IP: 208.49.145.105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110157649 X-Yahoo-Profile: jayuehd34 This site has a lot of great cards. I was able to get approved in 30 seconds for two different cards. Check it out for yourself. I found this link in another group. It's worth a look at. http://securedcreditcardbadcredit.com