Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion

From: "Dan Marsh" <dmarsh3000@h...>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:14:12 -0400

>From: Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>
>
>	Discussion seems to have spontaneously died for some reason,
>so I'd like to bring us back to implementing public opinion. Here's
>a sketch for a method I rather like:

Obviously, discussion died because I wasn't here commenting on things, 
hourly. That'll teach ME to leave town for the weekend. (BTW, I also 
expect to be out of town next weekend. However, I think I will be able to 
follow the rules more closely this weekend.

>	There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be
>actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a
>little goofy (Broccoli). . . .

Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we 
commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations?

DM
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From: Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:30:00 -0700

>commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations?

A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think 
it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture 
it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a 
shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software.
Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, 
although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another 
option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what 
I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another 
option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since 
it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law

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From: "Jeffrey J. Weston" <jjweston@k...>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:02:40 -0700 (PDT)

> it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python.

Never heard of Zope, so no input from me there. I've worked quite
a bit with Java Servlets for my job, so I consider myself fairly skilled
with them, and with the Java language in general. However, I feel that
using Java Servlets for something like this may be like killing a fly with
a flamethrower. It's probably more power than we really need. I still
prefer PHP for smaller projects, and in fact haven't seen a reason why it
can't be used on larger projects...

Of course, there are questions about who is going to build such a
bot. Multiple people, or just one person? If its just one, it probably
doesn't matter too much what they use. Of course, if they go AWOL, who
would be able to maintain it? If multiple people were to work on it,
they'd have to all agree on the same tools.

I suppose the question comes down to, who would be willing to do
such work? What tools do you prefer? What tools *can* you work with? What
tools can you *not* work with, or refuse to work with? Oh yes, one more
thing... The game of Nomic can be quite a slavedriver when it comes to
keeping software up to do with the rules. Whoever works on the bot should
keep this in mind.

For me, I would be willing to do such work. I would prefer
PHP/mySQL. However, I am also capable of working with Java Servlets.

Heck, if we get serious about this, we could probably open up a
project on sourceforge.net and get all sorts of project management
functionality through them... ;-)

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From: Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:14:34 -0700

My suspicion is that if we start using computer programs, it 
will slowly expand to be responsible for most of the game, and we 
want it to be able to handle whatever we need it to handle.
As for who would build it, my inclination would be to insist 
that as many players as possible be involved enough that they could 
take over maintenance. One person might direct the project and 
handle much of the coding, but we definitely don't want to be 
dependant on anyone.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>