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1

From: Ole Andersen  <siri.iben@g...>
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 7:29am
Subject: Welcome to the denomic E-Mail Group

  A discussion list for deNomic

Group Manager: denomic-owner@egroups.com

To subscribe, send a message to denomic-subscribe@egroups.com or go to the e-group's home page at http://www.egroups.com/list/denomic
2

From: Rune Kock  <zarquon@t...>
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 8:57pm
Subject: Package voting

 
 Pack406-407 'Selecting a Judge', Rune, 28/3 08.25
406 'Amend 212', Rune, 28/3 08.25
407 'Selecting a Judge, Second Try', Rune, 28/3 08.25

The individual proposals of a package shall first be voted on after the package itself has been defeated.

From rule 394 (Packages):

"If the Package is defeated, each of the Proposals in the Package is to be voted upon."

Note "is to be" which is the future tense.

Rune


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3

From: Rune Kock  <zarquon@t...>
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 8:52pm
Subject: Hi, here I am

  So now I am present on this mailing list. Let's see what happens.

Rune


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4

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Mon Mar 22, 1999 2:05am
Subject: deNomic test

  dette er en prøve



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5

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Mon Mar 22, 1999 2:10am
Subject: deNomic Sv: test

  det ser ud til at virke...

'reply' går til listen, ikke kun til afsenderen.

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: the Speaker palnatoke@g...
Til: deNomic-ML denomic@egroups.com
Dato: 22. marts 1999 03:06
Emne: deNomic test


:dette er en prøve
:
:
:
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6

From: Rune Kock  <zarquon@t...>
Date: Mon Mar 22, 1999 10:14am
Subject: deNomic Vs: - Package 408-413 (Formicide)

 
 Package 408-413 consists of
408 (Repeal 304)
409 (Repeal 327)
410 (Amend 328)
411 (Repeal 363)
412 (Amend 367)
413 (Amend 402)

Ole

In my opinion, the players who have spent points on acquiring ants should get some sort of compensation.

Rune


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7

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Tue Mar 23, 1999 5:09am
Subject: deNomic Sv: - Proposal 404 (Timing)

 
There is no quorum, so the proposal is defeated, and Ole loses 10 points,
but gains an Insistance
Point.


Kira is on the Couch. (She rises and lies down from time to time).

Sum:
For: Ole, Christian
Against: none



The Speaker receives a Vegetable.

Kira collects a Vegetable in North Farm.
Peter collects a Vegetable in North Farm.
Christian collects a Vegetable in East Farm.
Monsanto Man (Martin) spreads his vile poison in Central Square. Each
Veggie-holder* there loses one Veggie.
[My policy here is: the largest group first, and generic before others, and
alphabetically amongst others]
*) Ole and Rune.


Current State:

Ole Andersen, palnatoke@g... , Speaker, Cult of the Ant, Zeitgeist, -8
points, ten Insistance Points and two (generic) Vegetables
Kira Tendal, aeshna@g... ,  Citizen, 101 points and fifty-five
(generic) Vegetables
Christian Mønsted, dr@m... , Citizen, -11 points and forty-seven
(generic) Vegetables
Rune Kock, rune@i... , Citizen, Cult of the Ant, holder of the Office of
Agriculture, 54 points, five Insistance Points, three acorns and thirteen
(generic) Vegetables
Peter Gadebirk, gadebirk@p... , Citizen, Ambulant Psychiatrist, -68
points, eleven Insistance Points and thirty-seven (generic) Vegetables,
Silly
Martin P. Jensen, mpj@c...  , Citizen, Monsanto Man, -48 points
Martin Andersen, mva.410@r... , Citizen, -50 points


All are in Central Square, except for
Christian, who is in East Farm, and
Kira and Peter, who are in North Farm.

Total # of points: -20
Average # of points: -2.86


Proposal Queue:

Overturn Judgement 18, Ole, 27/3 20.32
405 'Safe Voting', Rune, 28/3 08.25
Pack406-407 'Selecting a Judge', Rune, 28/3 08.25
406 'Amend 212', Rune, 28/3 08.25
407 'Selecting a Judge, Second Try', Rune, 28/3 08.25
(There is more coming)

Upcoming Events:
28/3    04.00 Martin J must submit a Judgement on CFJ 16.


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: the Speaker palnatoke@g...
Til: Peter Gadebirk gadebirk@p...; Ole hjemme
palnatoke@g...; Martin Plantener Jensen MPJ@c...; Martin
Andersen mva.410@r...; Kira hjemme aeshna@g...; Christian
Mønsted dr@m...; Rune Kock rune@e...
Dato: 15. marts 1999 23:09
Emne: deNomic - Proposal 404 (Timing)


:Proposal for a new rule:
:"Rule 404 - mutable
:Timing
:
:
:A Turn is the basic time unit of deNomic.
:Each turn begins Sunday at 08:00 hours and lasts until the following Sunday
:at 08:00 hours.
:Each player can move within the geography of deNomic once per Turn.
:For the purposes of this Rule, collecting a Vegetable at a Farm constitutes
:a move.
:The prescribed voting period on a proposal starts at the moment that the
:proposal is distributed by the Speaker, and lasts until the end of the Turn
:following the Turn in which the distribution occurred.
:If several proposals are adopted simultaneously, they shall be considered
to
:have been adopted in distribution order.
:For the purposes of Rule 311, a week is a Turn.
:This Rule takes precedence before the Rules 205, 206 and 324."
:
:
:
:Proposed by Ole
:
:
:
:
:
:
:



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8

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Tue Mar 23, 1999 7:28am
Subject: deNomic - Proposal 414 (The Nullity)

  Proposal for a new rule:
"Rule 414 - mutable
The Nullity


There is a Game Entity known as The Nullity.
The Nullity is a non-player Voter with a variable number of votes.
The Nullity will vote for all Proposals with a zero in their number with a
number of votes equal to the number of zeros in the number of the Proposal.
The Nullity will abstain on all other Proposals and on all Packages
The Nullity votes immediately after the announcement of each Proposal."


Proposed by Ole



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9

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Tue Mar 23, 1999 7:43am
Subject: deNomic - Proposal 415 (Amend 366)

  Proposal to amend:
"Rule 366 - mutable
Prophecy and Martyrdom


Each time a proposal is defeated, its proponent receives an Insistance
Point.
A player with a negative number of points, no Vegetables and more than 5
Insistance Points shall receive the title of Prophet.
If a Prophet has fewerpoints than any other player, he/she shall receive the
title of Martyr.
If at any time there are two Martyrs, the Martyr with most points shall
cease to be a Martyr.
If a player wity a positive number of points enters the location of a
Martyr, the said player shall lose one tenth of his/her points, rounded
down, and the Matryr shall gain the same number of points."


to have the following wording:


"Rule 366 - mutable
Prophecy and Martyrdom


Each time a proposal is defeated, its proponent receives an Insistance
Point, unless the proponent is a Prophet, in which case he/she receives no
Insistance Points.
A player with a negative number of points, no Vegetables and more than 5
Insistance Points shall receive the title of Prophet and lose all of his/her
Insistance Points.
If a Prophet has fewer points than any other player, he/she shall receive
the title of Martyr.
If at any time there are two Martyrs, the Martyr with most points shall
cease to be a Martyr.
If a player with a positive number of points enters the location of a
Martyr, the said player shall lose one tenth of his/her points, rounded
down, and the Martyr shall gain the same number of points."




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10

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Tue Mar 23, 1999 11:23pm
Subject: deNomic - Current State, Proposal Queue, Upcoming Events

 
Martin A has left the game.

Current State:

Ole Andersen, palnatoke@g... , Speaker, Cult of the Ant, Zeitgeist, -8
points, ten Insistance Points and two (generic) Vegetables
Kira Tendal, aeshna@g... ,  Citizen, 101 points and fifty-five
(generic) Vegetables
Christian Mønsted, dr@m... , Citizen, -11 points and forty-seven
(generic) Vegetables
Rune Kock, rune@i... , Citizen, Cult of the Ant, holder of the Office of
Agriculture, 54 points, five Insistance Points, three acorns and thirteen
(generic) Vegetables
Peter Gadebirk, gadebirk@p... , Citizen, Ambulant Psychiatrist, -68
points, eleven Insistance Points and thirty-seven (generic) Vegetables,
Silly
Martin P. Jensen, mpj@c...  , Citizen, Monsanto Man, -48 points



All are in Central Square, except for
Christian, who is in East Farm, and
Kira and Peter, who are in North Farm.

Total # of points: 20
Average # of points: 3.33


Proposal Queue:

Overturn Judgement 18, Ole, 27/3 20.32
405 'Safe Voting', Rune, 28/3 08.25
Pack406-407 'Selecting a Judge', Rune, 28/3 08.25
406 'Amend 212', Rune, 28/3 08.25
407 'Selecting a Judge, Second Try', Rune, 28/3 08.25
Pack408-413 'Formicide', Ole, 22/3 10.48
408 'Repeal 304', Ole, 29/3 10.48
409 'Repeal 327', Ole, 29/3 10.48
410 'Amend 328', Ole, 29/3 10.48
411 'Repeal 363', Ole, 29/3 10.48
412 'Amend 367', Ole, 29/3 10.48
413 'Amend 402', Ole, 29/3 10.48
414 'The Nullity', Ole, 30/3 08.34
415 'Amend 366', Ole, 30/3 10.41




Upcoming Events:
28/3    04.00 Martin J must submit a Judgement on CFJ 16.



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11

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Tue Mar 23, 1999 11:27pm
Subject: deNomic Sv: Package voting

  Rune Kock zarquon@t... wrote:


The individual proposals of a package shall first be voted on after the
package itself has been defeated.

>From rule 394 (Packages):

"If the Package is defeated, each of the Proposals in the Package is to be
voted upon."

Note "is to be" which is the future tense.

€€€€€

Since the voting period of the proposals in the package is defined as a week
from the distribution, the proper thing to do is to vote on the packed
proposals immediately after the package has been defeated.


Ole



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12

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Thu Mar 25, 1999 3:53am
Subject: deNomic Vs: - Proposal to Overturn Judgement 18

 
"Rule 107 - immutable
Numbering Proposals


The Speaker shall give each proposed rule change an ordinal number for
reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule change proposed
in the proper way shall receive the next successive ordinal, whether or not
the proposal is adopted. The effective ordinal number of a rule is the
ordinal number of the most recent change to that rule."


This rule uses 'proposal' and 'proposed rule change' as synonyms. If a
proposal could change more than one rule, several rules would receive the
same number and precendence would become quite messy.


Ole


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: the Speaker palnatoke@g...
Til: Peter Gadebirk gadebirk@p...; Ole hjemme
palnatoke@g...; Martin Plantener Jensen MPJ@c...; Martin
Andersen mva.410@r...; Kira hjemme aeshna@g...; Christian
Mønsted dr@m...; Rune Kock rune@e...
Dato: 20. marts 1999 20:32
Emne: deNomic - Proposal to Overturn Judgement 18


:I propose the Overturn of Judgement 18, since Kira's verdict is in conflict
:with current game custom.
:
:Ole
:
:-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
:Fra: the Speaker palnatoke@g...
:Til: Peter Gadebirk gadebirk@p...; Ole hjemme
:palnatoke@g...; Martin Plantener Jensen MPJ@c...; Martin
:Andersen mva.410@r...; Kira hjemme aeshna@g...; Christian
:Mønsted dr@m...; Rune Kock rune@e...
:Dato: 20. marts 1999 10:15
:Emne: deNomic - Judgements 14, 18, 19, 21
:
:
::Kira has Judged:
::
::-----------------------------------------------------------
::CFJ 14
::
::Statement: "Judgement 3 can be reworded as: 'Rule 204 precludes Ant-owners
::from deciding what their Ant(s) vote.' - answered 'FALSE'" 26. februar
1999
::11:08
::
::Answer: TRUE
::----------------------------------------------------------------
::CFJ 18
::
::Statement: "One proposal can only contain a maximum of one rule change"
12.
::marts 1999 05:35
::
::Answer: FALSE
::--------------------------------------------------------------------
::CFJ 19
::
::Statement: "Judgments are based on the rules that were valid when the
::judgments were called for." 13. marts 1999 08:33
::
::Answer: TRUE
::--------------------------------------------------------------------
::CFJ 21
::
::Statement: "When a statement to be judged relates to a particular
happening
::in the game, the judgment shall be based on the rules that were valid at
::time of the happening in question." 13. marts 1999 08:34
::
::Answer: TRUE
::-------------------------------------------------------------------
::
::For this work, Kira receives 12 (generic) Vegetables.
::
::Current State:
::
::Ole Andersen, palnatoke@g... , Speaker, Cult of the Ant, -38 points,
::eight Insistance Points and four (generic) Vegetables
::Kira Tendal, aeshna@g... ,  Citizen, 101 points and forty-five
::(generic) Vegetables
::Christian Mønsted, dr@m... , Citizen, -11 points and thirty-seven
::(generic) Vegetables
::Rune Kock, rune@i... , Citizen, Cult of the Ant, holder of the Office of
::Agriculture, Ambulant Psychiatrist, 64 points, five Insistance Points,
:three
::acorns and twenty-four (generic) Vegetables, Silly
::Peter Gadebirk, gadebirk@p... , Citizen, -68 points, eleven
::Insistance Points and twenty-seven (generic) Vegetables
::Martin P. Jensen, mpj@c...  , Citizen, Monsanto Man, -48 points
::Martin Andersen, mva.410@r... , Citizen, -50 points
::
::
::All are in Central Square, except for
::Rune, who is in West Farm,
::Christian, who is in East Farm, and
::Kira and Peter, who are in North Farm.
::
::Total # of points: -50
::Average # of points: -7.14
::
::
::Proposal Queue:
::
::395 'Amend 333' (proto 10060), Rune, 20/3 08.28
::396 'One Thing at a Time' (proto 10061), Rune, 20/3 08.28
::397 'The Great Eraser' (proto 10062), Rune, 20/3 08.28
::398 'Amend 358', Ole, 21/3 10.15
::399 'Zeitgeist', Ole, 21/3 10.15
::400 'Keeping the References', Ole, 21/3 10.15
::401 'Unique Rule Titles', Ole, 21/3 19.32
::402 'Amend 319', Ole, 21/3 20.33
::403 'On Hold, Off Hold and Time-Out', Ole, 22/3 03.22
::404 'Timing', Ole, 22/3 23.09
::
::Upcoming Events:
::21/3    04.00    Martin must accept nomination as Judge in CFJ 16.
::28/3    04.00 (or possibly sooner)    Martin must submit a Judgement on
CFJ
::16.
::
::
::
::
::
:
:
:



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13

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Fri Mar 26, 1999 00:25am
Subject: deNomic Judgement 16

 
Martin has judged the Statement:

"In her letter, Kira has validly retracted all the protoproposals made in
the same letter."

to be TRUE.


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: MPJ@c... MPJ@c...
Til: the Speaker palnatoke@g...
Dato: 25. marts 1999 23:18
Emne: Re: deNomic - Call For Judgement 16



Call For Judgement 16
Judgement:

The Statement:

"In her letter, Kira has validly retracted all the protoproposals made in
the same letter."

is found to be TRUE.

Comment:
The phrase "a protoproposal" refers to any protoproposal in the current
context. I find that in this case that must include all the protoproposals
just proposed.




"the Speaker" palnatoke@g... on 06-03-99 23:35:44

To:   "Rune Kock" rune@i..., "Piet Mertz"
      S980223.Piet.Mertz@H..., "Peter Gadebirk"
      gadebirk@p..., "Ole hjemme" palnatoke@g..., Martin
      Plantener Jensen/LYN/COMPLET, "Kira hjemme" aeshna@g...,
      "Jens Kolberg" jgk@n..., "Christian Mønsted"
      dr@m..., "Martin Andersen" mva.410@r...
cc:
Subject:  deNomic - Call For Judgement 16





begin 666 ATT00021.txt
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M='1EBP@2VER82!H87,@=F%L:61L>2!R971R86-T960@86QL('1H92!P<F]T
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D9B!H97(@<')O=&]S*2X-"@T*4G5N90T*#0H-"@T*#0H-"@T*
`
end


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14

From: the Speaker  <palnatoke@g...>
Date: Fri Mar 26, 1999 5:22am
Subject: deNomic - Current State, Proposal Queue, Upcoming Events

  Martin receives three Vegetables for making a Judgement.
This causes him to resign as Monsanto Man.
The Office of Devegetation starts jumping around from Player to Player,
because each and every Player has generic Vegetables. This causes a paradox
(350).




Current State:

Ole Andersen, palnatoke@g... , Speaker, Cult of the Ant, Zeitgeist, -8
points, ten Insistance Points and two (generic) Vegetables
Kira Tendal, aeshna@g... , Citizen, 101 points and fifty-five
(generic) Vegetables
Christian Mønsted, dr@m... , Citizen, -11 points and forty-seven
(generic) Vegetables
Rune Kock, rune@i... , Citizen, Cult of the Ant, holder of the Office of
Agriculture, 54 points, five Insistance Points, three acorns and thirteen
(generic) Vegetables
Peter Gadebirk, gadebirk@p... , Citizen, Ambulant Psychiatrist, -68
points, eleven Insistance Points and thirty-seven (generic) Vegetables,
Silly
Martin P. Jensen, mpj@c... , Citizen, -48 points and three Vegetables



All are in Central Square, except for
Christian, who is in East Farm, and
Kira and Peter, who are in North Farm.

Total # of points: 20
Average # of points: 3.33


Proposal Queue:

Overturn Judgement 18, Ole, 27/3 20.32
405 'Safe Voting', Rune, 28/3 08.25
Pack406-407 'Selecting a Judge', Rune, 28/3 08.25
406 'Amend 212', Rune, 28/3 08.25
407 'Selecting a Judge, Second Try', Rune, 28/3 08.25
Pack408-413 'Formicide', Ole, 22/3 10.48
408 'Repeal 304', Ole, 29/3 10.48
409 'Repeal 327', Ole, 29/3 10.48
410 'Amend 328', Ole, 29/3 10.48
411 'Repeal 363', Ole, 29/3 10.48
412 'Amend 367', Ole, 29/3 10.48
413 'Amend 402', Ole, 29/3 10.48
414 'The Nullity', Ole, 30/3 08.34
415 'Amend 366', Ole, 30/3 10.41




Upcoming Events:
-none-



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15

From: Rune Kock  <zarquon@t...>
Date: Fri Mar 26, 1999 9:27am
Subject: deNomic Sv: - Current State, Proposal Queue, Upcoming Events

  >Martin receives three Vegetables for making a Judgement.
>This causes him to resign as Monsanto Man.
>The Office of Devegetation starts jumping around from Player to Player,
>because each and every Player has generic Vegetables. This causes a paradox
>(350).

Not a paradox, just an extreme amount of work for the Speaker.

Rune


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