Subject: ackanomic Digest V4 #270
From: [email-masked]
To: ackanomic digest users <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 00:00:02 -0400 (EDT)

ackanomic Digest	Tuesday, October 05 1999	Volume: 04  Issue: 270

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From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: results of the CRD hearing (empty offices)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:26:16 -0400 (EDT)

The Pres is scamming us:

Dragon Mage
K 2

This will patch the Crisis:

Clamshell Lawyer
Studge
Cthulhu
Ape Idiom Reporter

The CRD goes into effect and Dragon Mage is considered to have left the
game "retroactively".

I urge em to rejoin unilaterally.

I nominate em for the hall of elders, in case e doesn't.  Don't reply to
this message to support this nomination.

Reply to this message to nominate yourself for Postmaster (hard) and
Illuminatus (easy). 

-- Ape Idiom Reporter B(Scam)
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Student (Scamology)
  Acting Speaker * Acting Trinket-Harfer * Count Tabula * 
   DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Herald * Justice * President * 
    Rule-Harfer * Treasure-Harfer

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From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Acka: results of the CRD hearing (empty offices)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:48:45 -0400 (EDT)

>Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:32:49 -0700 (PDT)
>From: JT <[email-masked]>
>To: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: Acka: results of the CRD hearing (empty offices)
>
>On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
>> The CRD goes into effect and Dragon Mage is considered to have left the
>> game "retroactively".
>
>Ahh well.. I'll remain a Shrubbery in this game.  (IE, I'd like to remain
>on the mailing lists).
>
>> I urge em to rejoin unilaterally.
>
>No, since I never left, I was forced out.  I see no reason to play where I
>am not wanted.
>
>> Reply to this message to nominate yourself for Postmaster (hard) and
>> Illuminatus (easy). 
>
>I am removing my administrator (and superadmin) permissions from the
>Fat-Acka lists.  I will happily keep the listar installation functioning
>and up-to-date so the lists can be continued to be used.  Tell me when
>there is a new postmaster so I can give them admin/superadmin permissions.
>
>--JT
>
>-- 
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
>[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 
-- Ape Idiom Reporter B(Scam)
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Student (Scamology)
  Acting Speaker * Acting Trinket-Harfer * Count Tabula * 
   DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Herald * Justice * President * 
    Rule-Harfer * Treasure-Harfer

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Acka: results of the CRD hearing (empty offices)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:52:47 -0400 (EDT)

I'm replying to this publically, because I feel it belongs there.

On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Eric Plumb wrote:
> JT, I urge you to reconsider.  AIR was just doing what e thought
> necessary.  I didn't agree that it was (though Alfvaen did, for what it's
> worth) but voted for the CRD because -- if it was -- getting the two
> gamestates merged ASAP was what was necessary.  I didn't realize it would
> kick you out; I thought it would have merged the imaginomic into the
> fat-Acka state, not vice versa.  In other words, this was not meant as "JT
> is not wanted," from Gabe or any of the YES-voters.

A few things.
a) We have had thread states where a player was in one and not in another
   before.  When the threadstates collapse, this gets sorted out.
b) AIP (re)created a game state ex-nihilo in the thread where P4371 was
   not null.  That's all well and good, but I did not wish to be a
   member of that game in that thread.  (IE, if the CFJ invalidated the
   thread it was in, I was and am perectly content to allow that to be
   the case.)   I had not yet decided if I was going to remain in fat-acka
   if 4371 was proven true.
c) If you thought it would have merged the imaginomic into the fat-acka
   state you didn't read it.

> If you're not going to come back (please do!) I've nominated myself
> for Postmaster (I know, I know: who am I and what have I done with
> Eric; _e_ would never take Functional Offices); would you be willing
> to let me know what is necessary to keep them running?

I have not decided when or if I will return, I'm leaning toward not
because in the acka I joined almost 2 years ago, that CRD would never have
been created, nor would people have felt the need to overreact to a thread
split.

I'm personally a little ticked with people on both sides of this fence for
forcing the issue since by the rules of the nomic we were playing up until
around September 24th, only one of the two nomics really exists.  While I
have my opinions and desires about which one that is, I would have happily
abided by a decision arrived at VALIDLY under either of the two rulesets
(and would have hoped that they would agree on their beliefs).  The fact
that this didn't occur saddens me.

And as a note to Malenkai's argument that the CFJ 730 must be returned
true, I disagree here.  On september 24th, what really happened was the
nomic split in three.  In one side is 'acka-lite', on the other is
'fat-acka' and in the MIDDLE there is 'real-acka' which has to use the
decision proceedure AT THE TIME OF P4371 to determine which of the other
branches it REALLY is.

However, a large number (or at least a signifigant number) of people
seemed to assert that both nomics existed regardless of the outcome of the
CFJ.  AIR attempted to make that fact instead of supposition with his
ex-nihilo creation of a game-state for fat-acka.   That was the action I
objected to, and showed my objection in the only way available to me, by
my refusal to play along with what I considered his delusion.

> Or, even better: just rejoin the game. :-)

Not for a while, if ever.   Feel free to make me an elder, or not (though
I doubt the ability of fat-acka to act in even that much harmony).

--JT, disillusioned shrubbery

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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From: "Elio M. Garcia, Jr." <[email-masked]>
Subject: ACKA: An Elder
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:00:20 -0400 (EDT)

	I second AIR's nomination of Dragon Mage for Elder status.

--
[Upon a Dzurlord learning of the murder of a critic by a painter]
"And it was well done, too. I'd have done the same, only-"
"Yes?"
"I don't paint."            (Steven Brust, _The Phoenix Guards_)	

Elio M. García, Jr. ([email-masked])

------------------------------

From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: FAcka: Acka: Re: Fwd: Re: Elvis: results of the CRD heari
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:03:06 -0400 (EDT)

> And as a note to Malenkai's argument that the CFJ 730 must be returned
> true, I disagree here.  On september 24th, what really happened was the
> nomic split in three.  In one side is 'acka-lite', on the other is
> 'fat-acka' and in the MIDDLE there is 'real-acka' which has to use the
> decision proceedure AT THE TIME OF P4371 to determine which of the other
> branches it REALLY is.

Well, I agree with JT (no suprise) for the most part on this post, in
particular it is not in keeping with the _spirit_ of the old acka to
issue this CRD or impeach people over a thread split, so it doesn't
matter if it is by rule the old acka.

As for the above quote, though, I strongly disagree, and I disagree that
the games could sort it out in their own rulesets (because of my opinion
on the actual facts and rules of the CFJ), so I'll take it up with JT on 
IRC (if he wants to), because I get the sense that this nomic
is not really interested in the arguments about this CFJ anymore (which,
unfortunately, is what I like best about nomic).

George
Shubbery

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End of ackanomic Digest V4 #270
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