Subject: ackanomic Digest V4 #212
From: [email-masked]
To: ackanomic digest users <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:00:01 -0400 (EDT)

ackanomic Digest	Monday, August 09 1999	Volume: 04  Issue: 212

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:26:43 -0400 (EDT)

Hello Everyone,
During the past months I was hardly active in acka. Now, if  a couple of
years ago I might have joined rescue efforts, I'm not really up to it now,
what time I have I rather into fourplay chess and rishonomic.

So I'm leaving ackanomic. I'll stop by occasionally ( both on the web
pages and on irc) to see what's up.

bye for now friends.

Niccolo Flychuck

Uri

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:36:49 -0400 (EDT)

I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders

K 2

Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> During the past months I was hardly active in acka. Now, if  a couple of
> years ago I might have joined rescue efforts, I'm not really up to it now,
> what time I have I rather into fourplay chess and rishonomic.
> 
> So I'm leaving ackanomic. I'll stop by occasionally ( both on the web
> pages and on irc) to see what's up.
> 
> bye for now friends.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> Uri

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 04:54:11 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, K 2 wrote:
> I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders

I wholeheartedly support this nomination.

--JT

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:10:41 -0400 (EDT)

At 04:54 AM 8/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, K 2 wrote:
>> I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders
>
>I wholeheartedly support this nomination.
>
>--JT
>

Make that three.

Studge

------------------------------

From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 06:29:51 -0400 (EDT)

I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.
(That's four I believe).
-- 
Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer - http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/
Queens' College Cambridge, 2nd Year Ph.D. (Pure Maths) - Graph Theory
Insert random funny line here.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:24:00 -0400 (EDT)

>I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.
>(That's four I believe).

	I also support this nomination.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:09:29 -0400 (EDT)

> At 04:54 AM 8/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, K 2 wrote:
> >> I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders

> >I wholeheartedly support this nomination.

> >--JT

> Make that three.

> Studge

Make that N+1.

--
--Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--The Refreshments:Mexico
Current Book--Don H. DeBrandt:Steeldriver
There should be trembling, there should be sorrow.

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:33:16 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > At 04:54 AM 8/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
> > >On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, K 2 wrote:
> > >> I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders
> 
> > >I wholeheartedly support this nomination.
> 
> > >--JT
> 
> > Make that three.
> 
> > Studge
> 
> Make that N+1.

Me, too.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:49:30 -0400 (EDT)

>Me, too.

	With IB's vote there are seven votes.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 10:34:30 -0400 (EDT)

>>Me, too.
>
>	With IB's vote there are seven votes.

And with mine there are eight.

ThinMan

------------------------------

From: Rachel L Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 10:55:45 -0400 (EDT)

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> >I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.
> >(That's four I believe).
> 
>         I also support this nomination.

I wholeheartedly and unreservedly support this nomination (I believe
that makes nine). It is hard to think of a player who has done more to
shape Acka today. Always a proponent of the embodiment of nomic, change,
Niccolo Flychuck, you will be missed.

Pregnant Hippo.

-- 
Rachel "I am not a walrus" Walmsley. mailto:[email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html ICQ: 2925739
"Among wizards?" said Ridcully. "Mister Stibbons, unusual behaviour is
perfectly ordinary for wizards." - Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:07:11 -0400 (EDT)

>I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.

I support this nomination.

King Felix

------------------------------

From: Michael Slone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : bye bye acka
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:29:14 -0400 (EDT)

Many players wrote:
> > > >> I nominate Niccolo Flychuck for the Hall of Elders
> > > >I wholeheartedly support this nomination.
> > > Make that three.
> > Make that N+1.
> Me, too.

Can Shrubbery support nominations?

--
Michael Slone - UCB#0 - http://vir.fclib.org/harvel/ - 2169 September, 1993
There's nothing remarkable about it.  All one has to do is hit the right keys
at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
		-- J. S. Bach

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Exacting Standards
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT)

Interesting to see the results of Tweak and Frob in its two failures.

Under the simple voting system we used to have, both would have passed.
The first time it failed the votes were 7-3, 70% in favour.
The second time it failed the votes were 9-6, 60% in favour.

-- 
Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer - http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/
Queens' College Cambridge, 2nd Year Ph.D. (Pure Maths) - Graph Theory
My stream of consciousness has dried up.  Time to try irrigation.

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: cycle 35 ends
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 14:23:15 -0400 (EDT)

Profuse apologies for my tardiness but I had forgotten I had to do this.

On Monday August 2nd, at 20:21:33 (Acka Time), Cycle 35 ended. The following
occurs:

a) Ackanomic play is suspended.

b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit and Agenda Hats that
are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the same
condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are destroyed.

    The financier has probably already handled this. The smart cookie.

c) The winner is given the title of winner of the cycle, and a Right-Handed
Grapefruit and a Champion's Cloak are created in that player's possession.
If this results in his having two Champion's Cloaks, one of them is
instantly transformed into a Badge of Glory.

    A German Dog is given the title winner of the cycle, a Right-Handed
Grapefruit and a Champion's Cloak.

d) All players who have zero or fewer points are given a Chartreuse Goose
Egg.

    This would include only Taser and Kane I believe.

e) If the amount of A$s in circulation plus the value of all extant Trinkets
exceeded the amount in the Treasury at the time this winner was declared,
the following shall occur:

i) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero shall transfer 10% of
eir Total Wealth to the Treasury.

ii) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero and all players with
a Total Wealth of zero or less, shall be placed on The List in decreasing
order of Total Wealth. If there is a tie for Total Wealth, the Financier
shall make the random determination necessary to order the entities on the
list.

iii) A random entity appearing in the first half of The List, shall transfer
5% of eir total wealth to the active player lowest on The List and both
entities shall be removed from The List.

iv) If there are at least two entities still on The List, one of which is a
player and the other of which has positive wealth, then go to step iii.

    Financier-A-Go-Go

f) All players except the winner have their score halved. The winner has
their score reset to zero.

    My score!! Look what you've done to it!!!

g) All players receive A$ equal to the change in their score resulting from
the application of section e).

    *fnord* move along...

h) If the cycle currently ending has exceeded 30 days in length, all players
who have been vacationing for the entire cycle are removed from the game as
if they have quit.

    The current cycle exceeded 30 days in length but no player was
vacationing for its entirety.

i) The game cycle number is incremented.

    We are now entering Cycle 36.

j) All players who are in Gaol are released from Gaol. All players who are
in the Ackanomic Afterlife are relocated to their homes.

    Quick, someone win another cycle! This does not affect anyone as far as
I can see.

k) If the game state is such that the single winner of the last cycle would
immediately win again upon the resumption of Ackanomic play, a Chartreuse
Goose Card is transferred to that player.

    Nope.

l) All events specified by other rules to occur at the end of the cycle
occur, in the numeric order of the rule that defines the event [see rules
593, 8-7 and 8-2-4].

    The Fat Lady has begun to sing and will do so for at most a day. A
Commission D'Arts is called [details to follow shortly]. Have I missed
anything?

m) Ackanomic play resumes.

You may now go about your normal business.

King Felix
(speaker)

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: president (yet another random determination)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:04:18 -0400 (EDT)

The results of the presidential election are as follows:

else...if:
IdiotBoy
else...if

K 2:
Eggplant Tempura
Alfvaen
Emperor Ai! Pedrito!
K 2
ThinMan

King Felix:
Blest Lax Monk Pal
/dev/joe
Vynd
Pregnant Hippo
A German Dog

Studge:
King Felix

This produces a tie between K 2 and King Felix. Random determination to
follow imminently.

King Felix
(who got the "sensible" vote)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: random president
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:05:05 -0400 (EDT)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# 1 - K 2
# 2 - King Felix

No. of sides on every die:      2
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      2

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
    An army of editors surfing the web for you!
               http://www.NewHoo.com/
=================================================

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Aug  9 12:55:31 1999
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id MAA21063 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:55:31 -0700
> Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk(195.92.193.210) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma021040; Mon Aug  9 12:55:21 1999
> Received: from modem-80.mirtazapine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.80.80] helo=default)
>       by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2)
>       id 11Duim-0007kJ-00
>       for [email-masked]; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:04:32 +0100
> Message-ID: <00d701bee299$d7f3b7e0$bd21883e@default>
> From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: random players
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:03:16 +0100
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
> 
> #p [email-masked]
> #s 2
> #d 1
> #r 1
> #l 1
> #t Acka: random president
> #c
> #c 1 - K 2
> #c 2 - King Felix
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: pardon?
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT)

If anyone is in gaol (I don't believe they are, but still) I pardon them.

King Felix
(forgiving)

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: nominations (Registrar, Treasure Harfer, Summarizer)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:10:03 -0400 (EDT)

I open nominations for the offices of Registrar, Treasure Harfer and
Summarizer. Reply to nominate yourself, being careful to specify which
office.

King Felix
(president)

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: pardon?
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:09:35 -0400 (EDT)

At 03:08 PM 8/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>If anyone is in gaol (I don't believe they are, but still) I pardon them.
>
>King Felix
>(forgiving)
> 

Studge and I were both in gaol.  I can be released this way because Rule
17-2 allows for this, but Studge cannot (Pardoning is not otherwise
rule-defined).  He will be released when his 3 days are up.  (3:30 AM,
8/10/99, Acka Time)

Thank you for the Pardon.

By the way, we are still in a State of Crisis, as the CRD you issued was
not valid.  I believe you are the only one who can end it.

-- Emperor Ai! Pedrito! B(Scam)
Acting Registrar * DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Herald * Rule-Harfer
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Harfmeister * Student * Wrangler and Belt-Holder

------------------------------

From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:57:48 -0400 (EDT)

I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.

BLMP.

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: duel (EAP and IB)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:58:36 -0400 (EDT)

IdiotBoy picked word games (c), AI! Perdito! simulatanious(1), so the game
is crash.

rufus

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:26:34 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Gavin M. Doig wrote:

> 
> I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.
> 
> BLMP.

Sounds good.  Me 2!

rufus

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 722 (FALSE)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:38:09 -0400 (EDT)

Call for Judgement 722 - June 22, 1999
Subject: Looks Vaguely Familiar
Initiator: else...if
Judge: Studge
Judgement: FALSE
Appealed by: Slakko
1st Supreme Cortex: K 2 and Laa Laa (declined)
2nd Supreme Cortex: K 2 and /dev/joe
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

        Proposal 4207 was rejected.

Initiator's Reasoning:

        I presume (as /dev/joe will doubtless confirm or disprove later)
that the last minute voting by Dragon Mage and AiPedrito! would have
been sufficient to pass Proposal 2407.  Regardless, I deny that Dragon
Mage, AiPedrito!, and Studge were able to raise their characteristics as
they attempted.

        Their claim rests the permissibility of the unrestricted.  The
relevant excerpt:

        Whatever is not explicitly prohibited or regulated by the rules,
however, is permitted and unregulated.  [Rule 1]

        This comes down to the classic question of interpreting rule 1,
a problem which was resolved by CFJ 113 when Ackanomic was only a few
weeks old.  To quote the initiators reasoning, to which the judge agreed
in full;

"This essentially comes down to an interpretation of Rule 115. I claim
that the correct interpretation, the one that we all share, is the
following: You can do anything you want if the rules have nothing to say
on the issue. For example, I could say that I am officially the Big
Herring, because the rules are completely silent on this issue. However,
I could not declare that instead of using ordinal numbers in base 10, we
would be using ordinal numbers in base 3. This is illegal
because while the rules do not expressly forbid this specific action,
there is a rule concerning the numbering of proposals (Rule 642) and
thus I cannot arbitrarily adjust this, even though the said rule does
not discuss this issue specifically."

        The text of Rule 115 survives, unchanged in rule 1 today.  Rule
1 permits not the unprohibited, but the un*regulated*.  The sad and
happy numbers are regulated by the rules, and therefore can not be
arbitrarily altered by the scamsters.

        This has continued to be the Ackan standard in the almost three
and a half years since CFJ 113.  Let me also note Malenkai's Supreme
Court reasoning on CFJ 178, the initiator's and judge's reasoning on CFJ
92.9+2.718i, the judge's reasoning on CFJ 595, judge's reasoning on CFJ
719 and probably countless others.

Judge's Reasoning:

There are three splitting routes, but all lead to the same results.

Either the scam worked like it was supposed to (Case I), or not
(CaseII).

In Case I, everything went to plan, and the scam worked clean and P4207
passed in the process.

In Case II either Dragon Mage's first action ("I convert all of my
points except for 125 to A$ at the rate of 1 point to A$.") looped until
the treasury was empty (Case IIa), or misfired completely (Case IIb).

In Case IIa, enough of the right conversions worked (and he had all the
money he needed) that he could have changed his Voting Characteristic
and voted at least 1100 on P4207.  The scam worked, but mostly by
accident.

In Case IIb, the scam worked more directly (but still accidentally),
with only minor diviations in the math of Dragon Mages actions.  He
could still have changed his Voting Characteristic and voted at least
1100 on P4207.

All three routes pass through a successful P4207, so this CFJ is
trivially FALSE.

There is still the issue of the modern interpretation of Rule 1 in an
environment where explicit entityhood is the case and what the
definition of the gamestate actually IS is not well known...

I suggest another CFJ to find out which of these routes was taken.

Appealer's Reasoning:

One factor that the First Round Judge has not considered is whether or
not
the song on the ASS, "Ode to Joy", was played.  If the song was not in
fact played, then at no stage did any player gain any benefit from
having
the Sad Number as their score, and hence JT's attempt to gain huge
amounts
of A$ would have failed.

Playing songs on the ASS is regulated by Rule 7-16, "Ackanomic Sound
System".  Section II of Rule 7-16 contains the following quoted
paragraph:

--startquote

Any entity which is in the Library may play any Esoteric Song as a
public
action. To do so, that entity must state the name of the Song it
wishes to play and place either an amount of A$ equal to the Song's Cost
or a single Token into the banna-shaped slot on the ASS's control
panel. This action fails if the entity does not own sufficient A$, or
has
no Tokens. If the action was successful, the Esoteric Song requested
immediately begins playing as described below, with full effects, unless
there is already an Esoteric Song playing on the ASS. When this
happens, any A$ placed into the slot is transferred to the Treasury, and
any Tokens placed into the slot are destroyed.

--endquote

This would appear to indicate that the placing of a token into the slot
resulted in the playing of "Ode to Joy".  However, it says also that the
song begins playing "as described below".  Nowhere later in Rule 7-16
does
it describe how a song begins playing, except in the following part of
Section IV:

--startquote

An Esoteric Song will begin playing immediately upon its Trigger
becoming
true as long as the Office of DeeJay is filled by an active player. In
this case, the Esoteric Song will begin playing regardless of any other
Song that may be playing on the ASS. The Song will continue playing
until one or more of the following become true:

- its Duration is expired and its Trigger is not true, or
- another Esoteric Song's Trigger becomes true,

upon any of which it will stop playing. All game Effects described in
the
Song's definition will begin instantaneously when the Song starts to
play, and cease immediately when the Song stops playing, unless
specified
otherwise in the Rule creating the Song.

--endquote

So, if a song begins playing "as described below", this part of the rule
would appear to indicate that the Trigger must have become true, and the
Office of DeeJay was filled by an active player.  Ai! Pedrito! was
DeeJay
and Active, but no player without an accepted proposal had had one
accepted.

Secondly, consider the following quoted section of Section IV:

--startquote

The definition is encouraged, but not required, to include these three
attributes also:

e) Cost: The amount of A$ which must be placed in the banna-shaped slot
in
the ASS' control panel to play this Song. If the Cost is not
specified, it defaults to Infinite; i.e., the Song cannot be purchased
with A$ as described above.

--endquote

The first sentence in Section IV subsection e) indicates that to play
Esoteric Songs, an amount of A$ _must_ (my emphasis) be placed in the
banna-shaped slot.  This conflicts with the part of Section II which
allows either A$ or ASS Tokens to be used.  Being later in the rule, it
will win in the event of a conflict by Rule 1-1.

The second sentence, however, indicates that if no Cost is specified the
Song cannot be purchased with A$ as described above.  Indeed, the rule
describing the song "Ode to Joy" has no specified cost, and hence it
cannot be purchased with A$ as described above.

What "above" is being referenced here?  Section II, or the preceding
sentence?  The preceding sentence indicates a way to purchase songs, by
putting A$ in the banna-shaped slot.  It is the closer reference to
make,
and hence I would argue that it should be taken as the more reasonable
one.

Do the two sentences of Section IV subsection e) conflict?  There is a
very reasonable reading of the rules in which they do not.  The second
sentence says that such songs cannot be purchased with A$.  The first
sentence says that the only way to purchase the song is with A$.  So
clearly the song cannot be purchased in any manner (including payment of
an ASS Token).

So Section IV subsection e) overrules Section II (by Rule 1-1), and the
attempt to pay for the playing of "Ode to Joy" with an ASS Token failed.
Hence JT's attempts to change his Voting Characteristic were
unsuccessful,
and hence Proposal 4207 failed.

Dragon Mage's Bronze Torch Reasoning:

I agree that the first round judge did not sufficiently consider the
issue, so this appeal is worthwhile regardless of the outcome.

I read the first quote brought up by Slakko as the rule describing
two ways of the song beginning playing. One, when the ASS token or A$ is
inserted, the other when the trigger is fulfilled.   The 'as below' here
refers to "All game Effects described in the Song's definition will
begin
instantaneously when the Song starts to play, and cease immediately when
the Song stops playing, unless specified otherwise in the Rule creating
the Song.".  However, it has further limitations in that it cannot be
bought while another esoteric song is playing, which is why it needs to
make that reference.

I believe the second quote brought up by Slakko definately points out a
contradiction in the rules.   We have here 5 possible cases.
a) the song begins playing via the trigger.  (not the case)
b) the song is purchased via A$ and has a cost defined.
c) the song is purchased via ASS token and has a cost defined.
d) the song is purchased via A$ and has no cost defined.
e) the song is purchased via ASS token and has no cost defined.

Reading the sentance with the referent where Slakko has placed it (which
does not define a way to purchase, but defines what cost means, which
are
two subtly different things), one could not purchase a song in either
case
c or e correctly.

Reading the sentance with the referent to Section II, and the only case
which is faulty is case c.

I think logic dictates to take the least conflicting interpretation, and
certainly game custom dictates that when choosing among equally logical
readings of the rules (and I do not dispute that his reading is one
possible one, nor do I think he disputes that mine is a possible one)
then one should and in fact must choose the reading which is most
consistant with the way the game has been played.

In this case (since we have had a song played via ASS token in the past,
and there is a reading which allows such) we should take that reading of
the rules.

Cortex's Reasoning:
Slakko's appeal argument suggests an interpretation of the sentence
"This action fails if the entity does not own sufficient A$, or has
no Tokens." in Rule 7-16 to mean that the action of playing a song
fails when the entity playing it does not own both "sufficient" A$
and a Token.  While this is a possible interpretation, a more
reasonable English interpretation is that "as appropriate" is
implied, and that the sentence only requires the entity own the
thing he is trying to use.

Another issue in the appeal is the meaning of "must" in this section:
"e) Cost: The amount of A$ which must be placed in the banna-shaped
slot in the ASS' control panel to play this Song."  This section is
contained in a list (section IV of that rule) of definitions of the
attributes a song may have, and the text is clearly only meant to
identify the feature of a song called its Cost, and not to restrict
the playing of the song in any way.

Another issue that is critical to this case is the state of the happy
and sad numbers.  Since the rules depended on the values of these
numbers, and there was no clear referent in the real world, it seems
clear that the numbers must have remained part of the game state, and
thus their values could not be changed by the permissibility rule,
because Rule 1 regulates changing the game state.  Furthermore, since
nothing ever changed or removed the values of these parts of the game
state under the rules, they retained the values they had when they
were last defined.  The sad number was and still is 129.

One of JT's actions during this time period has also been of
questionable effect.  He said "I convert all of my points except
for 125 to A$ at the rate of 1 point to 2 A$."  I read this as
specifying a number of points (all but 125 of his points, however
many that was) and then converting those points, regardless of the
fact that he gained some more points from the Ode to Joy before
the conversion completed.  If he had said "I convert 1 point to
2 A$ enough times to reduce my score to 125." then he would have
done it either an infinite number of times (draining the treasury
of all its A$) or it didn't work at all due to not being specified
properly (since, even after an infinite number of conversions, his
score would still not reach 125), but he did not express his
action this way.

In any case, JT's other actions enabled him to have enough A$ to
increase his VC enough to make his vote valid, so proposal 4207 passed.

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Acka: HoE
From: Joseph DeVincentis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:22:56 -0400 (EDT)

David Scheidt wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Gavin M. Doig wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I support the nomination of Niccolo Flychuck to the Hall of Elders.
> > 
> > BLMP.
> 
> Sounds good.  Me 2!

I think we have more than enough already, but, "me too".

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: Bill Palmer <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: not a lert, in nert
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:39:48 -0400 (EDT)

I wish to have my passport stamped for nert, I've been there a long time
and must find my way out.

Honestly, I am trying to find the time to pay attention to the world
around, and haven't quite managed yet.  But am making progress.

Danek

------------------------------

End of ackanomic Digest V4 #212
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