Subject: ackanomic Digest V4 #200
From: [email-masked]
To: ackanomic digest users <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:00:02 -0400 (EDT)

ackanomic Digest	Tuesday, July 27 1999	Volume: 04  Issue: 200

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: oops, I forgot
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:44:30 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> > I once again pseudofound an Institution to be called the Twits.
> 
> I would not mind being a member of this Institution.

I was a member before, I would be a member again.

--JT

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:29:22 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, K 2 wrote:
> JT wants me to write em a sonnet,
> positioning letters, striving for meter,
> perverted rhyme and demands on letter.
> Just one thing I need - what is a sonnet?
> Questions that I have stated on the net
> present to me the answer, should it matter.
> Just fourteen lines with unusual order,
> just to entertain the writer, I bet.
> Zut! Six lines remain for me to write.
> Can't do this any longer without a fight.
> Kobbling the various bits together,
> contrive to say the method is in error,
> cause everyone one fathoms a billion
> can never be a thousand million

K 2, while this is a wonderful guess
Perforce the treasure must remain hidden
Compare what you wrote to this maudlin mess
Question why your answer is forbidden.
Zen-like strive to perfect your next attempt
Constrained your answer meets with less contempt.

--JT, waiting for the hubert effect to kick in as people glom onto what's
going on.

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Twits
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:45:22 -0400 (EDT)

I cleverly realize that I do not have the SHF.

I perform the following conversion 13 times:
I convert 1 mannna to A$2.

I announce that the Twits are founded.  The initial members are and
(Galahad), A German Dog, Alfvaen, and Emperor Ai! Pedrito!.  The Twits do
not own any institutional powers, because they are not that type of
institution.

-- Emperor Ai! Pedrito!
 DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Harfmeister * Herald * Rule-Harfer * Wrangler
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Really Weird * Weird

------------------------------

From: Alexandre Owen Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:54:27 -0400 (EDT)

JT wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, K 2 wrote:
> > JT wants me to write em a sonnet,
> > positioning letters, striving for meter,
> > perverted rhyme and demands on letter.
> > Just one thing I need - what is a sonnet?
> > Questions that I have stated on the net
> > present to me the answer, should it matter.
> > Just fourteen lines with unusual order,
> > just to entertain the writer, I bet.
> > Zut! Six lines remain for me to write.
> > Can't do this any longer without a fight.
> > Kobbling the various bits together,
> > contrive to say the method is in error,
> > cause everyone one fathoms a billion
> > can never be a thousand million
> 
> K 2, while this is a wonderful guess
> Perforce the treasure must remain hidden
> Compare what you wrote to this maudlin mess
> Question why your answer is forbidden.
> Zen-like strive to perfect your next attempt
> Constrained your answer meets with less contempt.
> 

K 2 used a diff'rent scheme of rhyming
Poetry than was here lately displayed.
Q-bert's cousin, grant the gift of timing;
Can I shine in verse ere I am outplayed?

Knowing nothing of this strangest treasure,
Zero of terms that I have not been told,
Could I tell as has been done a measure,
Per one billion as million millionfold?

Zorro would not hesitate as I do,
Questioning if coincidence it be,
Commenced with "J" are lines K 2 wrote, true; 
Puzzling, that there are none such from JT.

Quickly, I finish, with a clever play.
Just in case, I'll have it done either way.

**two-star

> --JT, waiting for the hubert effect to kick in as people glom onto what's
> going on.
> 
> --
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Alexandre Owen Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:54:31 -0400 (EDT)

JT wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, K 2 wrote:
> > JT wants me to write em a sonnet,
> > positioning letters, striving for meter,
> > perverted rhyme and demands on letter.
> > Just one thing I need - what is a sonnet?
> > Questions that I have stated on the net
> > present to me the answer, should it matter.
> > Just fourteen lines with unusual order,
> > just to entertain the writer, I bet.
> > Zut! Six lines remain for me to write.
> > Can't do this any longer without a fight.
> > Kobbling the various bits together,
> > contrive to say the method is in error,
> > cause everyone one fathoms a billion
> > can never be a thousand million
> 
> K 2, while this is a wonderful guess
> Perforce the treasure must remain hidden
> Compare what you wrote to this maudlin mess
> Question why your answer is forbidden.
> Zen-like strive to perfect your next attempt
> Constrained your answer meets with less contempt.
> 

K 2 used a diff'rent scheme of rhyming
Poetry than was here lately displayed.
Q-bert's cousin, grant the gift of timing;
Can I shine in verse ere I am outplayed?

Knowing nothing of this strangest treasure,
Zero of terms that I have not been told,
Could I tell as has been done a measure,
Per one billion as million millionfold?

Zorro would not hesitate as I do,
Questioning if coincidence it be,
Commenced with "J" are lines K 2 wrote, true; 
Puzzling, that there are none such from JT.

Quickly, I finish, with a clever play.
Cunningly, I'll have it done either way.

**two-star

> --JT, waiting for the hubert effect to kick in as people glom onto what's
> going on.
> 
> --
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:05:23 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Alexandre Owen Muniz wrote:
> K 2 used a diff'rent scheme of rhyming
> Poetry than was here lately displayed.
> Q-bert's cousin, grant the gift of timing;
> Can I shine in verse ere I am outplayed?
> 
> Knowing nothing of this strangest treasure,
> Zero of terms that I have not been told,
> Could I tell as has been done a measure,
> Per one billion as million millionfold?
> 
> Zorro would not hesitate as I do,
> Questioning if coincidence it be,
> Commenced with "J" are lines K 2 wrote, true; 
> Puzzling, that there are none such from JT.
> 
> Quickly, I finish, with a clever play.
> Just in case, I'll have it done either way.

With this proper sonnet (Elizebethan ;), two-star has found treasure 253.

Since I don't believe that he actually knows the map, this is a shame, but
he fulfilled the conditions set forth there-in and was the first to do so.

The map was as follows:
The mirror and other items shall be found when one player posts a sonnet
to the main list in which every line begins with a letter unable to be
encoded using the encoding scheme for the primary clue.  The sonnet must
contain at least one line which begins with each of these letters.  The
letters which cannot be encoded are c, j, k, p, q, and z.

I will allow K 2 to explain the encoding scheme for the primary clue since
it was quite obvious from his attempt that he decoded it.   Should anyone
else have decoded it, they are also welcome to explain it :)

--JT

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Alexandre Owen Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:40:14 -0400 (EDT)

JT wrote:
>  two-star has found treasure 253.
> 
> Since I don't believe that he actually knows the map, this is a shame, but
> he fulfilled the conditions set forth there-in and was the first to do so.
> 

Yeah, well, I feel horrible about it. I give K2 JT's Barrel of Monkeys
to help alleviate my guilt. Ah, now I feel better.

**two-star

------------------------------

From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Return
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:44:30 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Joseph DeVincentis wrote:

> #state /dev/joe Voting
> #end

#state Slakko Voting
#end

I return from vacation by changing my state to Voting.
> 
> I note that the bot observed a tyranny on one proposal due to else...if
> voting against it and no other players from the proposal's subcommittee
> voting against the thing at all.  I was careful to implement the letter
> of the rule in the bot; the rule doesn't care that the proposal was
> rejected by subcommittee, and neither does the bot.  (Of course, with
> the current rules, this is the only way we are likely to have a tyrannic
> proposal, since a voting characteristic of, say, 12 now only allows votes
> up to 340.)

The original intent of my Tyranny proposal was, in fact, to cover those
failed in subcommittee cases.

<fx: goes back to reading through 500+ pieces of Acka mail>

Yours,
Slakko
-- 
Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer - http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/
Queens' College Cambridge, 2nd Year Ph.D. (Pure Maths) - Graph Theory
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Map-Harfer, Justice

------------------------------

From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:03:57 -0400 (EDT)

>With this proper sonnet (Elizebethan ;), two-star has found treasure 253.
>

As Poet Laureate, I object strongly to this claim. The Petrarchan sonnet
form predates the Elizabethan (or more commonly Shakespearian) form by some
centuries IIRC. The use of the latter form is only a crutch adopted by
English speaking poets who find it too hard to come up with rhymes (as
apposed to the many available in Italian).

And what is more you have violated the ancient code of Bracket Smiley
Pedantry ;).

King Felix
(pedant)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: Tsk, Tsk.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:18:48 -0400 (EDT)

IB wrote:

>A sad day in Ackanomic when we discover that /dev/jooe is an Agoraphobe.

We have many Agoraphobes around here.  Am I to infer that our own /dev/joe
has been spotted performing reconnaissance in Agora?  In that case he would
be a possible Agoraphile.

ThinMan
Too picky for his own good

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Acka: Tsk, Tsk.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:25:36 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, John Bollinger wrote:

> 
> IB wrote:
> 
> >A sad day in Ackanomic when we discover that /dev/jooe is an Agoraphobe.
> 
> We have many Agoraphobes around here.  Am I to infer that our own /dev/joe
> has been spotted performing reconnaissance in Agora?  In that case he would
> be a possible Agoraphile.
> 

I, for one, am not scared of Agora.  They are^Wwere our sworn enemies and
deserving of nothing more than our contempt, certainly not our fear!

IB
got it right for once

------------------------------

From: James McGregor <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: hi-diddly-dee
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT)

I'm not on vacation then. Oh well, won't bother
changing that. I will however add my name to the CFJ
ineligibility list. (As a public action).

Not being at all annoying.

Pure Haste

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: hi-diddly-dee
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:47:50 -0400 (EDT)

Forgetting something?

K 2

James McGregor wrote:
> 
> I'm not on vacation then. Oh well, won't bother
> changing that. I will however add my name to the CFJ
> ineligibility list. (As a public action).
> 
> Not being at all annoying.
> 
> Pure Hubert
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 723 (Emperor Ai!Pedrito)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:29:41 -0400 (EDT)

Call for Judgement 722 - June 22, 1999
Subject: Cheesy!
Initiator: JT
Judge: Emperor Ai!Pedrito
Judgement:

Statement:
JT has an Unclaimed Winning Condition by Rule 8-7.

Initiator's Reasoning:
All the following cheeses were gained after /dev/joe's cheese win
on or about P3810, in December 03, 1998.  At that time all cheeses
were destroyed.

Since I had 5 offices at that time (Trinket Harfer, Illuminatus, Herald,
Speaker, President) so I immediately regained the Edam.

With the win of Ghost on Monday, July 26, 1999, I gained a Gouda
for having won 2 games of Ghost (the other ending on June 15, 1999), and
one game of Fictionary (ending on 08/13/1998).

I have a Stilton from my 21 accepted proposals from P3868 to P4073, all of
which occured after /dev/joe's cheese win.

I have a Cheddar for the 3 harfy proposals (3079, 3567, 3868), the third
of which was aquired (and thus the cheese gained) after /dev/joe's cheese
win.

I have a Brie for my victory against else...if in a Duel (Limericks) which
ended on March 31, 1999.

With these 5 cheeses, I have achieved a winning condition by rule 8-7.

-- 
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: University
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT)

	If I'm not already there, I go to the University.  I enroll as a
student in Custom and Legislation (that is, in both fields).

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:41:29 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Gavin Logan wrote:
> As Poet Laureate, I object strongly to this claim. The Petrarchan sonnet
> form predates the Elizabethan (or more commonly Shakespearian) form by some
> centuries IIRC. The use of the latter form is only a crutch adopted by
> English speaking poets who find it too hard to come up with rhymes (as
> apposed to the many available in Italian).

Regardless, K 2's attempt was neither Petrarchan nor Elizabethan.  Thus it
failed to find the treasure whereas two-stars attempt succeeded.

> And what is more you have violated the ancient code of Bracket Smiley
> Pedantry ;).

Tough :)  (oh yeah.. :)

--JT

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Kontrived Zonnet Presented Just Cause.
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:03:02 -0400 (EDT)

JT wrote:
>
>Tough :)  (oh yeah.. :)
>
>--JT
>
I am calling a Bracket/Smiley Pedantry Hearing against JT for the message
from which the above was quoted. I am the Grand High Pedant in Chief for
this hearing, which is a Serious Matter. Valid responses are:

"It seemed perfectly correct to me" and
"It was obviously in violation!".

Reply to vote.

BLMP.

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Details?
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:02:14 -0400 (EDT)

Has anyone been keeping updated copies of any of my web pages in the last
three weeks?  If they have, I would greatly appreciate being told of the
relevant links, as it would save me an awful lot of bother.

Yours,
Slakko
Web-Harfer
will pay for updates

-- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Student
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:03:44 -0400 (EDT)

I go to the University.

If and only if this would NOT make me cease to be a student of Scamology, I
perform the following TTT-delimited actions:

TTT
I perform the following conversion 13 times:
I convert 1 mannna to A$2
I pay the SHF to become a student of Custom.
TTT

I go to my home.

-- Emperor Ai! Pedrito!
 DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Harfmeister * Herald * Rule-Harfer * Wrangler
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Really Weird * Weird

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: E-mail address
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:28:39 -0400 (EDT)

	I'm in the process of switching to my new e-mail address,
[email-masked].  Although I will still get mail you send to my old
address until mid-September, I will be using the new address for most
purposes.

--
-Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: Eric Wald <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Student
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:46:04 -0400 (EDT)

I create a trinket valued at A$9
named "less than the Standard Harfer Fee", with the description 
"Something which the Emperor always seems to have,
even when nobody can see it."

For minor blunders, for the foundation of the Twits,
and for extraneous mannna conversions, 
I give less than the Standard Harfer Fee
to Emperor Ai! Pedrito!

-- and

from -> [email-masked]

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Acka: Student
From: Joseph DeVincentis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:13:08 -0400 (EDT)

#mannna -13 gabrieldrummondcole
#end

Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
> I go to the University.
> 
> If and only if this would NOT make me cease to be a student of Scamology, I
> perform the following TTT-delimited actions:
> 
> TTT
> I perform the following conversion 13 times:
> I convert 1 mannna to A$2
> I pay the SHF to become a student of Custom.
> TTT

As far as I can tell, this is permissible and does not make EAP cease to be
a student of Scamology.  However, a single thesis submission makes EAP cease
to be a student, so seems to remove all instances of studentness and the
accompanying majors.  K2's twice-rejected proposal tried to fix this.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: An IdiotBoy
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:33:18 -0400 (EDT)

n. A machine which converts manna into heads.

I perform the following TOOSALTY conversion 25 times:

TOOSALTY
I convert 1 Manna into A$2.
TOOSALTY

I got the the AIGR.. I bu an additional head.

IB
shoulders getting weak.. Elf needs food badly!

------------------------------

Subject: Acka: Odd Man Out continues
From: Joseph DeVincentis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:48:34 -0400 (EDT)

Some more accepted sets:

else...if's 8-member set:
1)45                                    all others are spelled out
2)fourty ninth                          all others are cardinal
3)fifteen                               all others are multiple words
4)five hundred and five                 all others have a t
5)thirty five                           all others start with an f
6)fourty seven                          all others are composite
7)fourty eight                          all others are odd
8)Four cardinals on a trampoline        all others are numbers

else...if writes: That last one may seem odd, but think: it's spelled out, it's
cardinal (four, in fact), it has multiple words, a letter t, starts with an
f, is composite (there are four things, five if you count the trampoline),
and is certainly odd.

That last item is a bit of a stretch (no pun intended) and it might have
been slightly better if he'd said fifty cardinals instead of four
(composite with or without the trampoline, and REALLY odd), but I am
accepting this entry.

ThinMan's 7-member set:
Proposal 1121:  Did not address the judicial system
Proposal 1181:  Its number is not composite
Proposal 1184:  Does not contain an amendment
Proposal 1636:  Was not written by Malenkai/Saaremaa
Proposal 1774:  Its title contains no verb form
Proposal 1857:  Was not accepted
Proposal 3250:  Its number does not begin with "1"

This is very nice.

EAP's 7-member set:
tree (doesn't end with a consonant)
leer (doesn't start with t)
teen (not a verb)
teeter (not 4 letters)
teem (not a noun)
tool (no e) 
toes (no double vowel)

A little boring, but a solid set.

JT's 7-member set:
two       -- All the rest have a duplicate letter.
twelve    -- All the rest have an odd number of letters.
sixteen   -- All the rest start with T.
thirtytwo -- All the rest can be counted on just fingers and toes.
tenth     -- All the rest are cardinal numbers.
three     -- All the rest represent multiples of two.
thimaanya -- All the rest are in English (thimaanya is 8 in Iraqi)

The number theme has been done a fair bit, but this is distinct enough to
be accepted.  (Note, though, that this significantly reduces the space
of still-acceptable number-sets.)

scores: Odd Man Out
ThinMan: 3
Laa Laa: 2
else...if: 4
EAP: 3
JT: 3

/dev/joe

------------------------------

End of ackanomic Digest V4 #200
*******************************