Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #423
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest       Monday, November 23 1998       Volume 03 : Number 423

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:58:21 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Museum Scams.

>> Because that is a manipulation of an entity not explicitly allowed in the
>> rules?  In your reading, the rule then conflicts with the rule on entity
>> manipulations (and granted has the precedence to resolve it if it does
>> conflict) but the non-conflicting reading is equally (imho) viable and
>> thus should be preferred.
>
>I must disagree with your last statement.  As far as I was aware,
>the only point of implicit game custom Acka has in these "two equally
>valid meanings" questions is that the less paradoxical one should hold
>sway.  Simply conflicting with a higher numbered rule should not be held
>against one particular interpretation.

Clearly this is a matter for a CFJ.

I do lean toward the position that a reading of the rules which does not
bring rules into conflict in the first place is generally somewhat
preferrable to one which does, but I don't recall offhand whether that
argument has been used in a CFJ decision.  I seem to recall breadbox and
I batting something like that around in our Supreme Court days, but I'm
not sure whether it ever made it into any official reasoning.

And now, a few words about Game Custom:

I point out that rule 101 does not prevent CFJ verdicts from becoming
explicit game custom when it makes Game Custom unregulated.  Quite the
opposite -- it frees us to consider CFJ verdicts to be part of Game Custom,
which we do (because it is customary, of course), and because they are
written out they are clearly explicit.  This is in happy coincidence with
the rules' assertion (devoid of force) that CFJ verdicts become an explicit
part of Game Custom.  As far as CFJ reasoning goes, I believe I have argued
in the past that parts or the whole of a Judge's reasoning may become
implicit game custom, to the extent that they may lay out a necessary
series of conditions for the verdict to be correct.  On the other hand,
CFJ reasoning can also weasel its way into Game Custom simply by being
generally accepted as true and correct.

ObTMBSG: Those who are curious about why Game Custom is explicitly
unregulated might care to look up my first paradox win attempt, which I
believe dates from Acka's first summer.  It involved the assertion that
Game Custom was regulated (based on the rules on Judgements); the infamous
CFJ 113, which had been interpreted to pretty much extended protection
from extra-rule manipulation to anything in the slightest regulated or
described in the rules (and which was a bad verdict, IMO); and, IIRC,
the requirement that the rules be interpreted according to Game Custom.
Ah, for the days when a CFJ could rock the very foundations of Acka....  :)

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: OC usage

I use an Otzma Card Training Regime and name choice 2

I then Gift Thomas Jute with an Otzma Card type Paratroop(If it cant be 
gifted then i offer it.)

R-Attila The Farce
(:|Worker|General Contractor|Daring Adventurer|:)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:34:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:SBoC

I read the next page of my SBoC
it puufs away in a wink of light leaveing nothing. Then suddenly it 
billows gallons and gallons of smoke.

R-Attila The Farce
(:|Worker|General Contractor|Daring Adventurer|:)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:42:55 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: acka: Altra's regime roll 

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Altra's regime roll (choice 2)
# 1 Str
# 2 Int
# 3 Wis
# 4 Dex
# 5 Con
# 6 Cha

No. of sides on every die:      6
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      4

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Nov 23 02:43:17 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id CAA05685 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:43:17 -0500
> Received: from uclink4.Berkeley.EDU(128.32.25.39) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma005681; Sun Nov 22 23:43:10 1998
> Received: from nor-90-114 (nor-90-114.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.90.114])
>       by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA09501
>       for <[email-masked]>; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:43:09 -0800 (PST)
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> X-Sender: [email-masked]
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:41:46 -0500
> To: [email-masked]
> From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
> Subject: 
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 6
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #C Altra's regime roll (choice 2)
> #C 1 Str
> #C 2 Int
> #C 3 Wis
> #C 4 Dex
> #C 5 Con
> #C 6 Cha
> #T acka: Altra's regime roll 
> 
> 
> --Pol Pot
> 
> Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
> Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
> not to be annoying

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.7

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/pWNqvJjzg/1XbJrYGTmGNY0YV4IDq47lo8+FOBWUW7tiYysVVOxF5GzfQmYMgNY
Txra5aZ48syZbaOR+N8smbdaHon0PTC1/+S1fGM9TaM+Y4yanGBOxnLui28aOOIH
BWsESEqg7Mk=
=I5g+
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Chess Play
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:14:39 -0500 (EST)

I am extending the time the SPAM Swinger has for eir move to 4 days from
the time of this message.  (That still being within the 1 week overall
limit).

Yours,
Slakko
--
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Resignations
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:15:16 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, AARON KEESLER wrote:
> >I also resign from the Office of Count Tabula.  I'm not sure if I need
> >to make the random determination for the Senate Seats, or if the OiCoRT
> >does, but I'll leave that to the next person.
>
> Since K 2 was on ice, there was no tie.   the two 'tied' players both
> recieved seats.

Yes, but we need to know which seats which people get.

--
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:15:21 -0500 (EST)

else...if has judged this TRUE.

Call for Judgement 699 - November 18, 1998
Subject: Museum Win the Second CWCFJ
Initiator: r-attila the farce (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:39 Acka)
Judge: else...if (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka)
Judgement: TRUE

Statement:
r-attila the farce has achieved a win condition during the
cuurent cycle of Ackanomic.

Reasoning:
I donated Thomas Jute is happy to the museum.  Therefore my
benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a
win condition.

Judge's Reasoning:
(none)

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 690 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:15:26 -0500 (EST)

IdiotBoy has judged this TRUE.

Call for Judgement 690 - November 7, 1998
Subject: Mungibility of Nontradeability
Initiator: JT (sent 7 Nov 1998, 14:18 Acka)
1st Judge: K 2 (chosen 10 Nov 1998, 05:17 Acka) (deadbeat)
2nd Judge; IdiotBoy (chosen 19 Nov 1998, 05:22 Acka)
Judgement: TRUE

Statement:
JT has three whamiols.

Reasoning:
If the original determination for JT's play of the Arctic Explorer card
was valid, then this CFJ is TRUE.

If the original determination was false, then JT has a Magic Radish that
he did not previously have.

I believe that the first determination was accurate because when the
entities Magic Radish and Rock to Wind a String around, were repealed they
ceased to be tradeable.   I believe they are still entities however.

Rule 500 states that
>Something is an entity if and only if the rules specify that it is, or
>it is defined by the Rules and Ackanomic tradition indicates that it is
>an entity.

They are still entities, because Ackanomic tradition has them as entities.

Rule 500 further states
>An entity may not be created, destroyed, or manipulated except as
>specified by the Rules.

Rule 502 states
>Each entity is either unownable, nontradeable, or tradeable. Tradeable
>entities are either giftable or ackable, and are either protected or
>exportable. Tradeable entities are ackable and protected unless the
>Rules specify otherwise. An entity is nontradeable unless the Rules
>specify otherwise. If an entity is nontradeable or tradeable then it
>is ownable.

I would argue that the entities became non-tradeable by rule 502 when they
ceased to be defined by the rules.   Since this is rule 502 applying the
change of state from tradeability to non-tradeability, I would argue that
rule 500 does not take precedence and block this manipulation of
tradeability since it is happening as defined in the rules.

If this argument is accurate, then the first determination was valid, and
the statement is TRUE.  Otherwise the statement is FALSE.

Judge's Reasoning:

I can find no fault with the reasoning of JT in this matter.  It is this
Court's considered opinion that the Magic Radish and Rock to Wind a String
around are legally "nontradeable Entities."

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFCJ 176 (Euphrates)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:15:43 -0500 (EST)

Euphrates has been selected.

Call for Judgement 176 - November 19, 1998
Subject: K 2's Disinterest
Initiator: JT (sent Nov 19 1998, 13:00 Acka)
Judge: Euphrates
Judgement:

Statement:

K 2 committed the Crime of Disinterest on Thursday November 19, 1998.

Reasoning:

On Thursday, November 19, 1998, K 2 was not subscribed to any form of
the official mailing list.
    I note that the time above does not have to be exactly when he
unsubscribed, as by the phrasing of the rule (Rule 370), the crime is
being continuously committed since the time of unsubscription, and at
least at some point on the day in question, K 2 was not subscribed.

Suggested Penalty:
EXPULSION from the game of Ackanomic, which will have the effect of
placing K 2 On-Ice.

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:21:29 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>else...if has judged this TRUE.

Assuming this is not appealed, a cycle will end on
Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:15:21 -0500 (EST)

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 176 (Euphrates)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:22:21 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>Euphrates has been selected.
>
>Call for Judgement 176 - November 19, 1998

I retract this CFCJ.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 698 (Blarney)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:02:33 -0500 (EST)

K 2 left the game and thus could not judge this.
Blarney has been selected.

Call for Judgement 698 - November 18, 1998
Subject: Museum Win The First
Initiator: Thomas Jute (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:35 Acka)
1st Judge: K 2 (chosen Nov 19, 1998, 05:21 Acka) (left)
2nd Judge: Blarney
Judgement:

Statement:
Thomas Jute has achieved a win condition during the cuurent cycle of
Ackanomic.

Reasoning:
I donated r-attila the farce is happy to the museum.  Therefore
my benefactor value is greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a
win condition.

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 701 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:02:38 -0500 (EST)

r-attila the farce has been selected.

Call for Judgement 701 - November 19, 1998
Subject: Chorg Creation
Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 19 1998, 06:40 Acka)
Judge: r-attila the farce
Judgement:

Statement: Slakko owns a Spellbook of Chorg

Reasoning: I personally think this should be ruled false, but i haven't
given the involved rules careful perusal.  Slakko tried to create one with
an Acme InstaGadget Otzma Card, and did not spend any money.  There has
been one auction of a SBoC of the type mentioned in the Instagadget.
However, it ended without any bids, and so the auctioneer (Malenkai) got it
by default without paying any money.  Whether this satisfies the
Instagadget is my question.  Note that the result of this CFJ will also
probably also apply to JT's similar use of an Instagadget to create a SBoC
2 days ago.

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 702 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:02:43 -0500 (EST)

r-attila the farce just keeps getting selected.

Call for Judgement 702 - November 21, 1998
Subject: Senate Removal and Organization Links
Initiator: Vynd (sent Nov 21 1998, 00:26 Acka)
Judge: r-attila the farce
Judgement:

Statement: Slakko is a Senator.

Reasoning: The truth of this statement depends on the effects of Proposal
3724. As a one time effect, that proposal caused all players who were in
an organization(s) which had an H similarity of 75% or more with another
organization(s) to be removed from those organizations.

Rule 411 Senate states that "The Senators are collectively a Unique
Organization known as the Senate." Thus the Senate is an org, and was
subject to the effects of proposal 3724. There were only two Senators at
the time proposal 3724 passed, Slakko and Thomas Jute. This meant that the
Senate had 100% H similarity with the Grey Council, and therefore Slakko
and Thomas Jute were removed from the organization of the Senate.

What, exactly, does this mean? There seems to be two possibilities. One is
that the Senators were removed from the Senate, but they remained
Senators. In this case, they would immediately become members of the
Senate again, because the Senate is by definition the collective Senators.
The other possibility is that the Senators were not only removed from the
Senate organization, but from their seats as Senators.

I believe that the first possibility is the correct one. Nothing in
Proposal 3724 explicitly states that the Senators are removed from their
offices. While the Senate itself is an org, the offices that make it up
are not. If being a Senator was somehow contingent on being a member of
the Senate, I might be inclined to accept the second posibility I have
mentioned, but since the opposite is the case I see no reason to believe
that being removed from the Senate automatically causes one to lose the
Office of Senator.

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 703 (Blarney)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:02:48 -0500 (EST)

Blarney has been selected.

Call for Judgement 703 - November 21, 1998
Subject: Missed Cycle Win CWCFJ
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent Nov 21 1998, 00:44 Acka)
Judge: Blarney
Judgement:

Statement:

Alfvaen has gained a winning condition during the game of Ackanomic.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

This is a Cycle-Win CFJ, as stated in Rule 599.

Sometime before the recent destruction of Cheeses when /dev/joe achieved
a Winning Condition due to Rule 611, I had five cheeses, although I did
not realize that I had the Cheddar until afterward.

Having held, possibly among others, the offices of Trinket-Harfer,
Web-Harfer, Archaeologist, Financier, Registrar, Speaker, Undead-Harfer,
Swinger for Metamorph, Praetor, Illuminatus, Deejay, and Justice after
the passage of Proposal 2716, I had an Edam.

Having won games of Fictionary, Ghost, and Viruses since the passage of
the same Proposal, I had a Gouda.

Having been granted a Brie due to not having had a CFCJ judged TRUE
against me(the original means of getting one), and not having lost it
since either by CFCJ or by Duel, I had a Brie.

Having had Proposals 2774, 2776, 2787, 2797, 2798, 2807, 2808, 2842,
2845, and 2865(and, for that matter, 19 more)accepted with no intervening
rejections, or even retractions, I had a Stilton.

Having had Harfy Proposals 2915, 3347, and 3484 accepted, I had a Cheddar.
(Had I but known...)

These facts are all fairly easy to verify, so I don't anticipate any
trouble here.

------------------------------

From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 704 (alpha - Pol Pot) (beta - K 2)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:02:55 -0500 (EST)

Pol Pot has been selected.
If this CFJ is TRUE, Pol Pot cannot be selected.
In such an event, K 2 has been selected.

Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998
Subject: Leaving on acka-research
Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka)
Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha)
Judge: K 2 (Thread Beta)
Judgement:

Statement:

 The player known as Pol Pot left acka (and became on Ice) on Saturday
21st November 1998.

Reasoning:

 He posted this to [email-masked]

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> I give all my money to Vynd.  I resign from all my offices.  I leave acka.

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (Blarney)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:29:03 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>Blarney has been selected.

Blarney cannot be selected for this as he also left the game.
Same applies to CFJ 703.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 701 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:30:01 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>r-attila the farce has been selected.

How was r-attila selected for both CFJ 701 and 702?   I thought the rules
forbade someone from being selected if they already were supposed to be
judging a CFJ?

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 701 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:25:52 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >r-attila the farce has been selected.
>
> How was r-attila selected for both CFJ 701 and 702?   I thought the rules
> forbade someone from being selected if they already were supposed to be
> judging a CFJ?

Only if more than half the number of active players would remain to judge
the CFJs.

(Oh, and with the Blarney stuff - I didn't see a message from you like the
one you did for bacon - that's why I thought e was still a player.)
--
Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer - http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/
Queens' College Cambridge, 2nd Year Ph.D. (Pure Maths) - Graph Theory
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Clerk of the Court

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:31:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 696 (Fortunato)

At 05:08 AM 11/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Fortunato has been selected.
>

I submit the following CFJ:

Statement:

The legality of Pol Pot's donation of Alice in Wonderland to They Might Be
About to Win a Cycle cannot be determined with finality.

Reasoning:

this is a paradox win CFJ

Rule 1301 says:

c. A Player who disobeys the Church Policy of a Church of which he or she
is a member is guilty of Iconoclasm, which is a Crime. It is impermissible
for a Player to take a game action which constitutes Iconoclasm if he or
she has any legal alternative which would not constitute Iconoclasm. [That
is, Iconoclasm normally doesn't
happen unless there is no alternative. It is possible for a player to
commit Iconoclasm by inaction, though.] 

Because the Church Policy is continually flipping back and forth between
requiring and not allowing its members to donate such trinkets to the
Church, it is impossible to determine with finality which state the game
was in when I attempted to donate the trinket. 

- --Pol Pot

Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
not to be annoying

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Stuff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:20:40 -0500 (EST)

I reveal the entire map of T268:

This treasure may be found by K 2 as a public action or as described in
the most recently modified file with the name "T268.txt" on K 2's
computer.

I reveal the current text of "T268.txt":
T268 may be found by K 2 as a public action.

I find T268.

I announce that K 2 has found T268 the map was as stated above.
and the goose returns to me from the treasury :)

As author of 3774, I pay myself A$10 for an amber banana.
As author of 3783, I pay myself A$10 for an amber banana.
As author of 3792, I pay myself A$10 for an amber banana.

I offer to trade three amber bananas in exchange for a Scroll of
Crumble.

K 2

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: CFJ 702 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:31:43 -0500 (EST)

>Call for Judgement 702 - November 21, 1998
>Subject: Senate Removal and Organization Links
>Initiator: Vynd (sent Nov 21 1998, 00:26 Acka)
>Judge: r-attila the farce
>Judgement:
>
>Statement: Slakko is a Senator.
>
>Reasoning: The truth of this statement depends on the effects of Proposal
>3724. As a one time effect, that proposal caused all players who were in
>an organization(s) which had an H similarity of 75% or more with another
>organization(s) to be removed from those organizations.
>
>Rule 411 Senate states that "The Senators are collectively a Unique
>Organization known as the Senate." Thus the Senate is an org, and was
>subject to the effects of proposal 3724. There were only two Senators at
>subject to the effects of proposal 3724. There were only two Senators at
>the time proposal 3724 passed, Slakko and Thomas Jute. This meant that the
>Senate had 100% H similarity with the Grey Council, and therefore Slakko
>and Thomas Jute were removed from the organization of the Senate.
>
>What, exactly, does this mean? There seems to be two possibilities. One is
>that the Senators were removed from the Senate, but they remained
>Senators. In this case, they would immediately become members of the
>Senate again, because the Senate is by definition the collective Senators.
>The other possibility is that the Senators were not only removed from the
>Senate organization, but from their seats as Senators.
>
>I believe that the first possibility is the correct one. Nothing in
>Proposal 3724 explicitly states that the Senators are removed from their
>offices. While the Senate itself is an org, the offices that make it up
>are not. If being a Senator was somehow contingent on being a member of
>the Senate, I might be inclined to accept the second posibility I have
>mentioned, but since the opposite is the case I see no reason to believe
>that being removed from the Senate automatically causes one to lose the
>Office of Senator.

Bronze Torch reasoning for CFJ 702:

Rule 411 establishes an extremely tight connection between the Senators
and the Senate.  So tight, in fact, that I don't see how it is possible
for any player to ever be a Senator but not a member of the Senate.  Rule
411 doesn't just say that all Senators are members of the Senate, it says
that the Senate _is_ the collective Senators.  This is the same section
that the submitter (and others) have argued puts Senators back in the
Senate.  The submitter wrote "If being a Senator was somehow contingent
on being a member of the Senate, I might be inclined to accept [that the
Senators lost their seats when P3724 was accepted]."  I claim that there
is more than contingency, here -- there is identity.  By rule 411, being
a Senator and being a member of the Senate are the SAME THING.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:37:51 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 696 (Fortunato)

Pol Pot wrote:

>I submit the following CFJ:
>
>Statement:
>
>The legality of Pol Pot's donation of Alice in Wonderland to They Might Be
>About to Win a Cycle cannot be determined with finality.
>
>Reasoning:
>
>this is a paradox win CFJ
>
>Rule 1301 says:
>
>c. A Player who disobeys the Church Policy of a Church of which he or she
>is a member is guilty of Iconoclasm, which is a Crime. It is impermissible
>for a Player to take a game action which constitutes Iconoclasm if he or
>she has any legal alternative which would not constitute Iconoclasm. [That
>is, Iconoclasm normally doesn't
>happen unless there is no alternative. It is possible for a player to
>commit Iconoclasm by inaction, though.] 
>
>
>Because the Church Policy is continually flipping back and forth between
>requiring and not allowing its members to donate such trinkets to the
>Church, it is impossible to determine with finality which state the game
>was in when I attempted to donate the trinket. 

Wasn't this already settled?  In case somebody missed it, this doesn't
work because impermissable is not the same as illegal.  In fact, the
impermissable is not only not illegal, it is impossible.  It just does
not happen.  Look it up.  Thus the reason for my prop to patch up the
ambiguity in the game state caused by the attempted donation at the
center of this.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:49:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 696 (Fortunato)

ThinMan wrote:
> Pol Pot wrote:
> >The legality of Pol Pot's donation of Alice in Wonderland to They Might Be
> >About to Win a Cycle cannot be determined with finality.
> >
> >Because the Church Policy is continually flipping back and forth between
> >requiring and not allowing its members to donate such trinkets to the
> >Church, it is impossible to determine with finality which state the game
> >was in when I attempted to donate the trinket. 
> 
> Wasn't this already settled?  In case somebody missed it, this doesn't
> work because impermissable is not the same as illegal.  In fact, the
> impermissable is not only not illegal, it is impossible.  It just does
> not happen.  Look it up.  Thus the reason for my prop to patch up the
> ambiguity in the game state caused by the attempted donation at the
> center of this.

This "ambiguity in the game state" is the key to the whole thing.  If he
succeeded in donating it before, he no longer has it and can't donate it
now, and if he does, he may or may not be able to donate it.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> else...if has judged this TRUE.
>
> Call for Judgement 699 - November 18, 1998
> Subject: Museum Win the Second CWCFJ
> Initiator: r-attila the farce (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:39 Acka)
> Judge: else...if (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka)
> Judgement: TRUE
>
> Statement:
> r-attila the farce has achieved a win condition during the
> cuurent cycle of Ackanomic.
>
> Reasoning:
> I donated Thomas Jute is happy to the museum.  Therefore my
> benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a
> win condition.
>
> Judge's Reasoning:
> (none)
>

I appeal this CWCFJ.

r-attila the farce never had possession of the Trinket "Thomas Jute is
happy".

The creation of Thomas Jute is happy was created using A$ the destruction
of another Trinket which was still in the Museum, and thus the A$ to
create Thoma Jute is happy were not avaiable  Since the trinket was never
created, it could not have been donated to the Museum.  Since it was never
donated to the Museum, it could not have changed r-attila the farce's BV.
Since r-attila the farce's BV is less than A$5001, e has not achieved a
Winning Condition.

The Court will note that rule 850 specifically states that:

"Entities may not be removed or stolen from the Museum except as described
by the rules"

Current game custom and rule interpretation leads us to the conclusion
that in order for an Entity to be removed from the Museum, the rules must
specifically describe the way in which it is to be removed.  The "forgery"
rule [506] which was used to remove "Thomas Jute is happy"'s ancestor
from the Museum do not provide such specification.

One may contend that our pragmatic view of the rules allows the "forgery"
rules to extract Entities from the Museum.  This is insupportable.  In
cases where the rules provide a means for Entities to be manipulated in a
specific manner, those rules provide the ONLY means of such manipulation.
We have rules which describe the manner in which Entities may be removed
from the Museum, rule 506 is not one of them.

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Another late great *ping*
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:23:34 -0500 (EST)

I can't believe I forgot it AGAIN.  The Machine has been happily pinging
along, and I just haven't had the sense to report it.  Here's the latest.

Today is Saturday, the 21st day of November, and the Machine That Goes
*ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
gone *ping* 6 times.

IB
Scholar of *ping*
letter bombs expected

------------------------------

From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another late great *ping*
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:47:54 -0500 (EST)

> I can't believe I forgot it AGAIN.  The Machine has been happily pinging
> along, and I just haven't had the sense to report it.  Here's the latest.
>
> Today is Saturday, the 21st day of November, and the Machine That Goes
> *ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
> gone *ping* 6 times.

I bid A$15 and name the letter s for Magic Letter.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:09:44 -0500 (EST)

IdiotBoy wrote:
> I appeal this CWCFJ.
>
> r-attila the farce never had possession of the Trinket "Thomas Jute is
> happy".

I add the following PRECEDENCE-delimited reasoning to this CFJ with my
bronze torch:

PRECEDENCE
IdiotBoy wrote a very nice appeal reasoning for this CFJ, but it is all
based on the clause in Rule 850 which states:

> "Entities may not be removed or stolen from the Museum except as described
> by the rules"

However, Rule 850 has no special precedence (except for the Private
Collection Room, which this trinket was not in), so if this clause
would prevent the forgery from being transferred to Thomas Jute, it
fails to do so because Rule 506 has precedence.

I also note that (to me) it has never been clear whether entities in
the Museum are actually owned by the Museum, or simply unowned and on
display in the Museum.  It is entirely possible that Thomas Jute owned
the trinket in question while it was still on display in the Museum.
In this case, the subsequent destruction of the trinket by Rule 506
(which only requires ownership, and does not care that the trinket
might happen to be on display in the museum at the time) also had
precedence over whatever in Rule 850 may have attempted to prevent
such destruction.
PRECEDENCE

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3774
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:19:18 -0500 (EST)

#retract 3774
#end

John Bollinger wrote:
[some excellent points which leads me to believe I should
a) retract P3774
b) RFC a new version
c) make use of the Spelling Exchequer.

For now I just do b.

K 2

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 701 (r-attila the farce)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:40:04 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>> >r-attila the farce has been selected.
>>
>> How was r-attila selected for both CFJ 701 and 702?   I thought the rules
>> forbade someone from being selected if they already were supposed to be
>> judging a CFJ?
>
>Only if more than half the number of active players would remain to judge
>the CFJs.
>
>(Oh, and with the Blarney stuff - I didn't see a message from you like the
>one you did for bacon - that's why I thought e was still a player.)

My apologies.  I had thought I'd sent one, but I do not see one in my
sent-mail folder.   I do try to send messages when people leave.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3774
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:41:59 -0500 (EST)

K 2 wrote:

>#retract 3774
>#end
>
>John Bollinger wrote:
>[some excellent points which leads me to believe I should
>a) retract P3774
>b) RFC a new version
>c) make use of the Spelling Exchequer.
>
>
>For now I just do b.

Do you mean you just do a?  It looks like that's what you did.  Or am
I just confused?

ThinMan

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:02:35 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>PRECEDENCE
>IdiotBoy wrote a very nice appeal reasoning for this CFJ, but it is all
>based on the clause in Rule 850 which states:
>
>> "Entities may not be removed or stolen from the Museum except as described
>> by the rules"
>
>However, Rule 850 has no special precedence (except for the Private
>Collection Room, which this trinket was not in), so if this clause
>would prevent the forgery from being transferred to Thomas Jute, it
>fails to do so because Rule 506 has precedence.
>
>I also note that (to me) it has never been clear whether entities in
>the Museum are actually owned by the Museum, or simply unowned and on
>display in the Museum.  It is entirely possible that Thomas Jute owned
>the trinket in question while it was still on display in the Museum.
>In this case, the subsequent destruction of the trinket by Rule 506
>(which only requires ownership, and does not care that the trinket
>might happen to be on display in the museum at the time) also had
>precedence over whatever in Rule 850 may have attempted to prevent
>such destruction.
>PRECEDENCE

/dev/joe bring up a good point.

With apologies to the arts and antiquities commision, I destroy "JT
cleaned out his closet and found all of this junk" for A$.

--JT, mainly curious to see if it will actually work

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 699 (TRUE)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:21 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>>else...if has judged this TRUE.
>
>Assuming this is not appealed, a cycle will end on
>Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:15:21 -0500 (EST)

Since this was appealed, this is not longer the case.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:34 -0500 (EST)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: R-attila the farce (page 4)
# This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
# A Spellbook of Chorg.
# The determination is made according to the following table
# A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
#  1    Go Fish
#  2    Map Shard
#  -    Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
#  3    Share My Expenses
#  -    Share Your Income       (at max instance)
#  4    Swinging Sale
#  -    Tactical Retreat        (at max instance)
#  5    Paratroop
#  -    Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
#  6    Truthseeker
#  7    Fix My Gadget
#  8    Art Thief
#  9    Skeleton Key
# 10    Artic Explorer
#  -    Lay Off!                (at max instance)
#  -    Founder's Boon          (at max instance)
# 11    Roulette Wheel
# 12    Training Regime
#  -    Shield                  (at max instance)
# 13    ACME InstaGadget
# 14    Felicitous Populi
# 15   Enslavement

No. of sides on every die:     15
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      2

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

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      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Nov 23 12:11:06 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id MAA03022 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:06 -0500
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma002978; Mon Nov 23 09:10:55 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24711
>       for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:10:59 -0800
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:10:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Chorg
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> #P [email-masked]
> #T Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination
> #S 15
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
>
> #C Player: R-attila the farce (page 4)
> #C This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
> #C A Spellbook of Chorg.
> #C The determination is made according to the following table
> #C A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
> #C
> #C  1 Go Fish
> #C  2 Map Shard
> #C  - Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
> #C  3 Share My Expenses
> #C  - Share Your Income       (at max instance)
> #C  4 Swinging Sale
> #C  - Tactical Retreat        (at max instance)
> #C  5 Paratroop
> #C  - Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
> #C  6 Truthseeker
> #C  7 Fix My Gadget
> #C  8 Art Thief
> #C  9 Skeleton Key
> #C 10 Artic Explorer
> #C  - Lay Off!                (at max instance)
> #C  - Founder's Boon          (at max instance)
> #C 11 Roulette Wheel
> #C 12 Training Regime
> #C  - Shield                  (at max instance)
> #C 13 ACME InstaGadget
> #C 14 Felicitous Populi
> #C 15   Enslavement
>
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>

------------------------------

From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Stuff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:12:47 -0500 (EST)

I give all but 2 of my Ackadollars (including whatever I got from dividends
a few minutes ago) and all my trinkets to JT.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:06:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 696 (Fortunato)

>Wasn't this already settled?  In case somebody missed it, this doesn't
>work because impermissable is not the same as illegal.  In fact, the
>impermissable is not only not illegal, it is impossible.  It just does
>not happen.  Look it up.  Thus the reason for my prop to patch up the
>ambiguity in the game state caused by the attempted donation at the
>center of this.
>

This was NOT already settled, at least not to my satisfaction.  I
previously retracted it not because I felt there was a flaw in my paradox,
but rather because I had "this is a paradox win" in the statement, which
could very well have led to an INVALID verdict.

- --Pol Pot

Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
not to be annoying

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 164
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:18:27 -0500 (EST)

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>I am issuing, in my capacity of postmaster, the following CSR numbered 164
>which consists entirely of changes to the Postal Code.  The CSR is
>delimited by POSTAL

[snip]

It has now been 3 days.  The postal code is now as I posted it in this
CSR.

All of the official lists at ackanomic.org are now official.

Please use them.

Mail sent to the old lists (with the possible exeption of
[email-masked]) no longer constitute valid public messages.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:41:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 696 (Fortunato)

I destroy Alice in Wonderland for A$

- --Pol Pot

Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
not to be annoying

------------------------------

From: K hubert 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Stuff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:12:35 -0500 (EST)

I convert 60 points into two bonus votes.

K 2

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>
> I give all but 2 of my Ackadollars (including whatever I got from dividends
> a few minutes ago) and all my trinkets to JT.
>
> /dev/joe

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: T189
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:19:19 -0500 (EST)

I preperation for the Treasure Harfer hand-over I updated the the T189
page. The following players are still eligible:

AJ [[email-masked]]
Blarney [[email-masked]]
Danek [[email-masked]]
Euphrates [[email-masked]]
r-attila the farce [[email-masked]]
sIRE [[email-masked]]
Robin Hood [[email-masked]]
scout [[email-masked]]

The following four players are tied for T208
TGR    (Hu)(Go)(Ho)(JJ)   4
Gromit (TGW)(**)(Kox)(TM) 4
Rufus  (Ru)(AtP)(dv)(St)  4

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:41:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: An exercise in trust

I create a Trust Fund named "The Treasure Thingee".
I give A$1 to The Treasure Thingee
I suggest that it adopt the charter delimited by HONESTLY
HONESTLY
	Should else...if publicly post a message including the statement
"Spring does emerge, appear, arise, emanate, spurt, and issue forth" then
all A$ which this Trust Fund owns will be transfered to him and this Trust
Fund will disband, unless he should at any time rotate, twist, turn, curve,
bow, bend, contort, distort, dial, or warp this Trust Fund.
HONESTLY

Spring does emerge, appear, arise, emanate, spurt, and issue forth.

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Contract.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:33:25 -0500 (EST)

I gift A$40 to else...if.

I create a contract called "Blue Jello" with the following BOUNTY
delimited text:

BOUNTY
Three days after a player destroys a trinket with the name "The
Haddocks' Eyes Locket" and provided no trinket by that name exists, each
of the players who have signed this contract shall transfer A$100 to the
player responsible for the destruction.

Penalty:
Transference of A$100 to the player who destroyed the trinket called
"The Haddocks' Eyes Locket" and the loss of 50 points.
BOUNTY

I pay the SHF as required and sign the contract.

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:35:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: House description

	I change the description of my home to the following TREASURE
delimited text:
TREASURE
A large wooden house built by a clumsy architect, it is unfit for
habitation, since the asbestos disqualifies it from being liveable. Even
without that, the large rat population eliminate and food discharged in the
building.  Anyone  passing by spends days circulating the circle of a house
in revolutions and turns around the rotating house.
TREASURE

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Contract.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:48:55 -0500 (EST)

>I gift A$40 to else...if.
        I gift A$30 to /dev/joe

--
-Henry Towsner

        <[email-masked]>

        Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
                -Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ice Digging
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:53:37 -0500 (EST)

I play one of my two OC Arctic Explorers and name mr cwm.  I have an Ice
Pick.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Contract.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:56:04 -0500 (EST)

else...if wrote:
> >I gift A$40 to else...if.
>       I gift A$30 to /dev/joe

and I give this A$30 to JT.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Arctic Explorer Determination (item found)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:58:45 -0500 (EST)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: JT
# JT used an Arctic Explorer Otzma Card on mr cwm.
# the following item was taken
#   1 -  3 bonus vote
#   4 -  4 Prosthetic Forehead (worn)
#   5 - 11 Prosthetic Forehead
#  12 - 12 Little Wooden Ship #8
#  13 - 13 The Haddock's Eyes Locket
#  14 - 14 Chalice from the Palace

No. of sides on every die:     14
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      9

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Nov 23 16:57:56 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id QAA26221 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:57:56 -0500
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma026218; Mon Nov 23 13:57:51 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA26008
>       for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:57:58 -0800
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:57:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Arctic Exploring
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 14
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Arctic Explorer Determination (item found)
>
> #C Player: JT
> #C JT used an Arctic Explorer Otzma Card on mr cwm.
> #C the following item was taken
>
> #C   1 -  3 bonus vote
> #C   4 -  4 Prosthetic Forehead (worn)
> #C   5 - 11 Prosthetic Forehead
> #C  12 - 12 Little Wooden Ship #8
> #C  13 - 13 The Haddock's Eyes Locket
> #C  14 - 14 Chalice from the Palace
>
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>
>

------------------------------

From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Contract.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:02:35 -0500 (EST)

I apply for entry into Shell#10.

K 2

Towsner wrote:
>
> >I gift A$40 to else...if.
>         I gift A$30 to /dev/joe
>
> --
> -Henry Towsner
>
>         <[email-masked]>
>
>         Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
> enjoy it.
>                 -Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Expedition.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:16:36 -0500 (EST)

I convert 15 points into an OC Arctic Explorer.

I play my OC Arctic Explorer and name poor old mr cwm.  I have an Ice
Pick.

IB

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Arctic Explorer Determination (item found)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:20:38 -0500 (EST)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: IdiotBoy
# IdiotBoy used an Arctic Explorer Otzma Card on mr cwm.
# the following item was taken
#   1 -  3 bonus vote
#   4 -  4 Prosthetic Forehead (worn)
#   5 - 10 Prosthetic Forehead
#  11 - 11 Little Wooden Ship #8
#  12 - 12 The Haddock's Eyes Locket
#  13 - 13 Chalice from the Palace

No. of sides on every die:     13
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     13

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Nov 23 17:19:52 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id RAA27396 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:19:52 -0500
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma027394; Mon Nov 23 14:19:47 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26138
>       for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:19:55 -0800
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:19:55 -0800 (PST)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Digging
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 13
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Arctic Explorer Determination (item found)
>
> #C Player: IdiotBoy
> #C IdiotBoy used an Arctic Explorer Otzma Card on mr cwm.
> #C the following item was taken
>
> #C   1 -  3 bonus vote
> #C   4 -  4 Prosthetic Forehead (worn)
> #C   5 - 10 Prosthetic Forehead
> #C  11 - 11 Little Wooden Ship #8
> #C  12 - 12 The Haddock's Eyes Locket
> #C  13 - 13 Chalice from the Palace
>
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Sorry!
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:35:45 -0500 (EST)

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Micah Smukler wrote:
>I probably should have sent this message a long time ago, but...
>
>If I am on Vacation, or in any state which was formerly known as
>being on Vacation, I cause myself to leave that state.
>
>If I am a Player of Ackanomic, I cause myself to leave the Game
>of Ackanomic.

I realized today that I'd made a mistake.  When Aunt Froot sent this
message, he was in fact still on Vacation.  He went On-Ice on the 21st of
November when he left the game, and will become a Non-Player 90 days
from that date.

My apologies again.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:40:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: (no subject)

I purchase from the mad hatters the agenda hat E17 ("It is publically
knowable that the Agenda Hat known as Clown-Like to plain folks became
false in the last week while at the same time this hat, known as Clown-Like
to plain folks, was publicly known to be worn.")

I offer all my money and this hat to Studge in exchange for A$2.

--Pol Pot

Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
not to be annoying

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: (no subject)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:57:48 -0500 (EST)

At 05:40 PM 11/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I purchase from the mad hatters the agenda hat E17 ("It is publically
>knowable that the Agenda Hat known as Clown-Like to plain folks became
>false in the last week while at the same time this hat, known as Clown-Like
>to plain folks, was publicly known to be worn.")
>
>I offer all my money and this hat to Studge in exchange for A$2.
>

I retract this offer and head on over to the AIGR, where I purchase an
extra head.  I wear this hat.

--Pol Pot

Possible Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon
Master  --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste -- Trying hard
not to be annoying

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Agenda Hats and Eggplants
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:03:32 -0500 (EST)

With Aunt Froot going On-Ice, Hats E16 and E17 went to the Mad Hatters.
Hat E17 has since been purchased (and worn) by Pol Pot
Nemesis Eggplant C9 was given to Slakko.
Nemesis Eggplant E12 was given to JT.

--JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Sorry!
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:05:57 -0500 (EST)

JT wrote:

> I realized today that I'd made a mistake.  When Aunt Froot sent this
> message, he was in fact still on Vacation.  He went On-Ice on the 21st of
> November when he left the game, and will become a Non-Player 90 days
> from that date.

In that case I nominate Aunt Froot for the Hall of Elders. I also support this
nomination.

Gromit.

--
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: (no subject)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:06:07 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, K 2 wrote:

>Hose em down.

I think I shall.   For his message without Acka in the subject line on 23
November, 198, I hereby declare that Pol Pot has gone Postal.

--JT, Postmaster

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Postal
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:12:30 -0500 (EST)

My sig is better than that of JT
he had to pay money, but he is not me!

--Pol Pot the crazy
french-scotsman dungeon master
and the rules harfer

perhaps a butthead
a daring adventurer
also really weird

postal, religious
and trying very hard not
to be annoying.

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Postal
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:15:12 -0500 (EST)

I give all my money to Thomas Jute
Now this hosing will really be moot.

--Pol Pot the crazy
french-scotsman dungeon master
and the rules harfer

perhaps a butthead
a daring adventurer
also really weird

postal, religious
and trying very hard not
to be annoying.

------------------------------

From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Postal
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:16:00 -0500 (EST)

Add Weird to the list in this sig file.

(now THAT's a feat)

--Pol Pot the crazy
french-scotsman dungeon master
and the rules harfer

perhaps a butthead
a daring adventurer
also really weird

postal, religious
and trying very hard not
to be annoying.

------------------------------

From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:Retract
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:11:44 -0500 (EST)

#retract 3800
#end

--
-Henry Towsner

        <[email-masked]>

        Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
                -Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: trinket
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:54:23 -0500 (EST)

I create a trinket called "I hate Mondays!" with the description "If you
drop a transmission on your SecureID(tm), you break it."  It has the value
of $A7.

rufus

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Acka: T189
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:24:42 -0500 (EST)

> I preperation for the Treasure Harfer hand-over I updated the the T189
> page. The following players are still eligible:

> AJ [[email-masked]]
> Blarney [[email-masked]]
> Danek [[email-masked]]
> Euphrates [[email-masked]]
> r-attila the farce [[email-masked]]
> sIRE [[email-masked]]
> Robin Hood [[email-masked]]
> scout [[email-masked]]

If you mean the Hubert treasure, isn't that Treasure 200?  I thought it
was when I buried it, anyway...

--
--Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Iron Maiden:Powerslave
Current Book--Poul Anderson:The High Crusade
No, Dear.  We sleep in the Garage with the Cars.  The BOOKS stay here.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:44:02 -0500 (EST)
From: The Drummond-Cole Family <[email-masked]>
Subject: [none]

I leave Acka. I quit under the fact that I just don't have the time. I did
not realize how time consuming a nomic was until school started. It's been
fun but all good things must come to an end.

- -AJ

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #423
*******************************