Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #416
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Wednesday, November 18 1998     Volume 03 : Number 416

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:03:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hat Needs a New Pair of Shoes

I give A$400 to Pol Pot.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:30:39 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: More gifts

I realized (after recounting) that the numbers on the PE Page didn't take
into account the A$400 I gave to Pol Pot earlier today, so all of the 
attempted actions of giving A$1300 to /dev/joe failed.

I therefore perform the following action as delimited by GREEDY 4 times
GREEDY
I give A$100 to Pol Pot
GREEDY

I then perform the following action as delimited by REPAYMENT 4 times
REPAYMENT
I give A$100 to /dev/joe
REPAYMENT

This should leave me with around A$150 (approximate) but I'll wait to see
exactly how close when K 2 next harfs things.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:38:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: More gifts

At 12:30 AM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I realized (after recounting) that the numbers on the PE Page didn't take
>into account the A$400 I gave to Pol Pot earlier today, so all of the 
>attempted actions of giving A$1300 to /dev/joe failed.
>
>I therefore perform the following action as delimited by GREEDY 4 times
>GREEDY
>I give A$100 to Pol Pot
>GREEDY
>

I give Thomas Jute all my money (should be A$400)
- --Pol Pot

Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master
- --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Worker Caste

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things you gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.
Over 50% of all voting players have a rebelliousness of "on"
Happy! Happy! Happy!
I'm on fire!
To Ganymede and Titan, yes sir I've been around
I wish to join all pseudofounded organizations
I vote no on all outstanding IPs
I remove myself from the CFJ ineligibility list
I put myself in the mentor pool
I go home

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:47:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: sigh

At 11:57 PM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>All current feuds have ended.  There are no members of any of the feuding
>organizations, so there are no effects due to the ends of these feuds.
>--Pol Pot

As Vynd pointed out on IRC, this is not true for the feud between JAM and
the religious caste.

Also, my change to the Worker Caste failed, because it would have resulted
in a Hsim of 1

As founder of JAM, I accept JT into it.
I request membership into JAM
As founder of JAM, I accept myself into it.
As founder of JAM, I accept Thomas Jute into it
I make the two of em priests
As founder, and in accordance with Church Policy, I mandate that JAM
transfer its GBS to Thomas Jute.  This happens.
I allow smallpox blanket and two-star entry into JAM

I change my Caste to Religious.

- --Pol Pot

Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master
- --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things you gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.
Over 50% of all voting players have a rebelliousness of "on"
Happy! Happy! Happy!
I'm on fire!
To Ganymede and Titan, yes sir I've been around
I wish to join all pseudofounded organizations
I vote no on all outstanding IPs
I remove myself from the CFJ ineligibility list
I put myself in the mentor pool
I go home

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:56:23 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: sigh

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> All current feuds have ended.  There are no members of any of the feuding
> organizations, so there are no effects due to the ends of these feuds.
> --Pol Pot

So far as I can tell from /dev/joe's list, the Religious Caste was
untouched by recent events. I don't recall exactly which Church we were
feuding with, but it looks like they may have lost...

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:15:32 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: sigh

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
>
>> All current feuds have ended.  There are no members of any of the feuding
>> organizations, so there are no effects due to the ends of these feuds.
>> --Pol Pot
>
>So far as I can tell from /dev/joe's list, the Religious Caste was
>untouched by recent events. I don't recall exactly which Church we were
>feuding with, but it looks like they may have lost...

The Religious Caste was Fueding with JAM.

The duel is not over however
   3. A state of Feud is over when one of the following conditions have
   been met:

   a. Every player member of the two Organizations engaged in a Feud with
   each other, fought a Duel with at least one member of the Organization
   it is Feuding with, since the Feud begun.

There are some members of the Religious Caste who never fought a fued
with a member of JAM since the feud started, therefore it hasn't ended
yet.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:35:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Museum Win #1

I create a Trinket worth A$5001 named "r-attila the farce is happy" (minus
the quotes) with the description "It is green." and donate it to the museum.

Then I submit a CWCFJ delimited by SWIFTVEANGANCE.

SWIFTVEANGANCE
Claim: Thomas Jute has achieved a win condition during the cuurent cycle of
Ackanomic.

Reasoning: I donated r-attila the farce is happy to the museum.  Therefore
my benefactor value is greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a
win condition.
SWIFTVEANGANCE

Then I point out that r-attila the farce is happy contains the name of a
current or former player (r-attila the farce) other than that of the
creating player, such that the player name in question (r-attila the
farce's) existed before the Trinket was created, and which has not been
owned at some time by each player whose name it contains.

Then as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) which says:

>If a player-created Trinket, contains the name of a current or
>former player other than that of the creating player, such that
>the player name in question existed before the Trinket was 
>created, and which has not been owned at some time by each player 
>whose name it contains, and a player points this fact out 
>publicly, it is a forgery. The rules may define other 
>circumstances under which a Trinket is a forgery.

r-attila the farce is happy _becomes_ a forgery and therefore

as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) [again]:

>Upon it becoming publically knowable that a Trinket is a forgery, 
>it is transferred to the Treasury, unless it contains the name of
>exactly one current player and no former players, in which case 
>it is transferred to that player.

it goes to r-attila the farce.

Then I go home.

Thomas Jute

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:39:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Museum Win #2

I break the trinket r-attila the farce is happy down for A$

I create a Trinket worth A$5001 named "Thomas Jute is happy" (minus the 
quotes) with the description "It is green." and donate it to the museum.

Then I submit a CWCFJ delimited by SWIFTVEANGANCE.

SWIFTVEANGANCE
Claim: r-attila the farce has achieved a win condition during the 
cuurent cycle of Ackanomic.

Reasoning: I donated Thomas Jute is happy to the museum.  Therefore my 
benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a 
win condition.
SWIFTVEANGANCE

Then I point out that Thomas Jute is happy contains the name of a 
current or former player (Thomas Jute) other than that of the creating 
player, such that the player name in question (Thomas Jute's) existed 
before the Trinket was created, and which has not been owned at some 
time by each player whose name it contains.

Then as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) which says:

>If a player-created Trinket, contains the name of a current or
>former player other than that of the creating player, such that
>the player name in question existed before the Trinket was 
>created, and which has not been owned at some time by each player 
>whose name it contains, and a player points this fact out 
>publicly, it is a forgery. The rules may define other 
>circumstances under which a Trinket is a forgery.

Thomas Jute is happy _becomes_ a forgery and therefore

as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) [again]:

>Upon it becoming publically knowable that a Trinket is a forgery, 
>it is transferred to the Treasury, unless it contains the name of
>exactly one current player and no former players, in which case 
>it is transferred to that player.

it goes to Thomas Jute.

Then I go home.

R-Attila The Farce
(:|Worker|General Contractor|Daring Adventurer|:)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:43:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: shuttling

I give "Thomas Jute is happy" (minus the quotes) to Pol Pot.

Thomas Jute

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:46:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Museum Win #3

I destroy the trinket Thomas Jute is happy for A$

I create a Trinket worth A$5001 named "Doubting Thomas Jute" (minus the 
quotes) with the description "It does not belong to K2" and donate it to
the museum.

Then I submit a CWCFJ delimited by SWIFTVEANGANCE.

SWIFTVEANGANCE
Claim: Pol Pot has achieved a win condition during the 
cuurent cycle of Ackanomic.

Reasoning: I donated Doubting Thomas Jute to the museum.  Therefore my 
benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a 
win condition.
SWIFTVEANGANCE

Then I point out that Doubting Thomas Jute contains the name of a 
current or former player (Thomas Jute) other than that of the creating 
player, such that the player name in question (Thomas Jute's) existed 
before the Trinket was created, and which has not been owned at some 
time by each player whose name it contains.

Then as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) which says:

>If a player-created Trinket, contains the name of a current or
>former player other than that of the creating player, such that
>the player name in question existed before the Trinket was 
>created, and which has not been owned at some time by each player 
>whose name it contains, and a player points this fact out 
>publicly, it is a forgery. The rules may define other 
>circumstances under which a Trinket is a forgery.

Doubting Thomas Jute becomes a forgery and therefore

as per Rule 506 (Trinkets) [again]:

>Upon it becoming publically knowable that a Trinket is a forgery, 
>it is transferred to the Treasury, unless it contains the name of
>exactly one current player and no former players, in which case 
>it is transferred to that player.

it goes to Thomas Jute.

- --Pol Pot

Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master
- --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things you gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.
Over 50% of all voting players have a rebelliousness of "on"
Happy! Happy! Happy!
I'm on fire!
To Ganymede and Titan, yes sir I've been around
I apply to join all pseudofounded organizations, vote no on all outstanding
IPs, remove myself from the CFJ ineligibility list, and go home.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:58:40 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Returning trinkets

I give the following trinkets to /dev/joe
	  Altra's Mantle of Power
          The Arrow-Straight Path of Deception 
          The Mysterious Cone that Was on the Lonely Mountain
          Spasibo khorosho 2
          Yam #2
          Sponsored by Studge #3
          /dev/joe's watchface
          Sculpture 2
          Bottle of Bacardi
          Hubert Feathers
          Lucky Ball and Chain
          Shades of Chorg
          Malenkai's Gold Coin #15
          Malenkai's Gold Coin #12

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:58:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Attention K-mart shoppers - FYI special on aisle Jute

I give K 2 A$ 79 which (along with the commie tax he picked up from
/dev/joe is what he was going to contribute to the scam).

Then I breakup "Doubting Thomas Jute" for cash.

Thomas Jute

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:02:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Returning trinkets

I give the following trinkets to r-attila the farce:

           Altra's Mantle of Power
           The Arrow-Straight Path of Deception 
           Sponsored by Studge #3
           Malenkai's Gold Coin #12

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:28:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ackanomic] Re: Acka: Gold Digger

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Pol Pot wrote:
> > RESULTS:
> > the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden to the soul
> 
> This was for Treasure 263a.
> 
> Slakko had 2 bonus votes before finding treasures 263a and 263b.
> One of the bonus votes from 263b was destroyed immediately upon him finding
> the treasure since it gave him 6.
> 
> This left him with 5: 2 old ones, 2 from 263a, 1 from 263b (in that order).
> He offered 3 away; JT did a random determination for me and determined
> that (if these have been accepted by now): Wild Card got #1 (an old one),
> and rufus and else...if got #3 and #4 respectively (the ones from T263a).
> Wild Card's is the only one I see an acceptance for now.
> 
> Slakko still has #2 (an old one) and #5 (the one from T263b), at least until
> that Gold Digger's results are returned.

What about the bonus vote I used in private email yesterday?  That one -
you will note - was specified to be a recent one.
- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:28:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: go back to not voting

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> Oh look... all members of the Senate and the Grey Council are removed
> too...  Why did we repeal DoppleSlakko?

I don't think so.  

The Senators are removed from the Senate.  However, the rule does not
remove them from their Seats as Senators.
So Rule 40x, whatever it is, then immediately reasserts its authority and
puts the Senators back into the Senate.

Same with Grey Council members.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:28:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: GAD! (Round 5)

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, AARON KEESLER wrote:

> Alfvaen, Pol Pot, and Robin Hood Covered their donkeys.

Didn't Robin Hood have 3 Donkeys, not 1?
> 
> Current Scores:
> 
> Slakko - 3
> Gromit - 2
> IdiotBoy - 2
> /dev/joe - 2
> Everyone else - 1
> 
> Reply to this message with yr next play.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:04:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: and intersting note

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> I see nothing in the rules that says an organization is destroyed or
> disbands when it has 0 members, so as far as I can tell, all the orgs
> today still exist, they are just memberless.
> 
> Which is in some ways worse.

Odd. there used to be a clause that said that they do disband.
Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> - --JT
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:15:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "James McGregor" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Heads

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppet head.

Euphrates

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:36:36 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Vulcan

I petition to join Vulcan.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:12:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: more joining

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> I suggest that the AVPP distribute A$142 to smallpox blanket.
> I approve.
> I suggest that the AVPP distribute A$142 to JT.
> I approve.
> I suggest that the AVPP distribute A$142 to two-star.
> I approve.
> 

I denounce all of these actions.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:17:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: shuttling

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Mueller wrote:

> I give "Thomas Jute is happy" (minus the quotes) to Pol Pot.
> 

Doesn't this fail as it has been shown to be a forgery?

IB

> Thomas Jute
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:24:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Museum Scams.

Let me just say that the I believe that in addition to the Museum Scams
being in poor taste, they didn't work.

IB
saving it for the appeal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:47:48 -0500 (EST)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ho, Robin of Sherwood! (GAD)

Robin Hood has been cruelly betrayed by the Wrangler.  He captured
Vynd's donkey, and then he captured K 2's donkey, and I didn't increase
his score either time.  The GAL is the same, but here are the real
scores:

Slakko - 3
Robin Hood - 3
Gromit - 2
IdiotBoy - 2
/dev/joe - 2
Everyone else - 1

- ------------------
Aaron Keesler
Lotus Notes Administrator
Intranet Administrator
Adtran, Inc.
- ------------------
"And now... Number one:  The Larch."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:41:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Museum Scams.

IdiotBoy wrote:
> Let me just say that the I believe that in addition to the Museum Scams
> being in poor taste, they didn't work.

The museum scams worked, because Proposal 3731 changed Forgeries so that
they are not forgeries until somebody points out publicly that they are
forgeries.  Previously, the rule said they were forgeries as soon as it
was publicly knowable.  I mentioned this scam to JT months ago, and he
said it didn't work because, in his opinion, it was publicly knowable
that a trinket was a forgery the moment it was created, since all the
player names are a matter of public record and the trinket's name must
be posted publicly when it is being created.  I agreed with this, and
let it rest.

Then along comes K2, changing forgeries exactly this way, so we figure
he'd seen the same loophole, and so we vote against it, and when it passes
anyway, we set up all our friends for free museum wins.  This is no worse
than what K 2 tried to do with Proposal 3716, and IMHO not even that bad;
it's simply a case of out-scamming the scamster K 2, and JT wanted to do
this to pay K 2 back for wrecking most of the organizations of Acka.

BTW, the trinket transfer of "Thomas Jute is happy" from Thomas Jute to
Pol Pot worked because a forgery ceases to be a forgery once it has been
owned by every player whose name is older than the trinket and is in the
trinket's name.  This was a change to close another loophole in the forgery
rule, which would have continually transferred a forgery back to its
creator, and allowed the same thing but with the forgery transfer first,
and then a player donating a forgery containing his own name to the museum,
getting it back, breaking it down, creating it with another player's name,
transferring, etc.

If it is allowable for me to do so before it is distributed by the CotC,
I am adding all the above text to the first of the three CWCFJ's from
Museum Wins submitted yesterday, using my Bronze Torch.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:54:39 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Museum Scams.

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>IdiotBoy wrote:
>> Let me just say that the I believe that in addition to the Museum Scams
>> being in poor taste, they didn't work.
>
>The museum scams worked, because Proposal 3731 changed Forgeries so that
>they are not forgeries until somebody points out publicly that they are
>forgeries.  Previously, the rule said they were forgeries as soon as it
>was publicly knowable.  I mentioned this scam to JT months ago, and he
>said it didn't work because, in his opinion, it was publicly knowable
>that a trinket was a forgery the moment it was created, since all the
>player names are a matter of public record and the trinket's name must
>be posted publicly when it is being created.  I agreed with this, and
>let it rest.
>
>Then along comes K2, changing forgeries exactly this way, so we figure
>he'd seen the same loophole, and so we vote against it, and when it passes
>anyway, we set up all our friends for free museum wins.  This is no worse
>than what K 2 tried to do with Proposal 3716, and IMHO not even that bad;
>it's simply a case of out-scamming the scamster K 2, and JT wanted to do
>this to pay K 2 back for wrecking most of the organizations of Acka.

Whoa there!   While I'm annoyed at K 2 for wrecking a large number of
orgs, I was *not* a motivating factor behind this scam, merely a minor
contributor. I already had a museum win thank you very much :).   I think
you meant Pol Pot and not JT above.   While I knew they were planning it
(I told them that the forgeries wouldn't work with the way the rule was
initially phrased the same as I told /dev/joe), and while I 'aided' them
by returning to them money that was rightfully theirs and lending them a
bit of my own so they had enough, the scam itself was not my idea.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:01:50 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: go back to not voting

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
>
>> Oh look... all members of the Senate and the Grey Council are removed
>> too...  Why did we repeal DoppleSlakko?
>
>I don't think so.  
>
>The Senators are removed from the Senate.  However, the rule does not
>remove them from their Seats as Senators.
>So Rule 40x, whatever it is, then immediately reasserts its authority and
>puts the Senators back into the Senate.
>
>Same with Grey Council members.

Actually, not quite.   Players WERE removed from 2 of the 3 castes, which
ALSO removed them from their Council seat, and I will note that there is
no provision in the rules for a player entering a caste except newbies and
players returning from On-Ice.  It will also now need to be checked
against H-Sim when a player enters a caste in addition to anything else.
Over all, this proposal is a serious headache.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:01:52 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: and intersting note

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>
>> I see nothing in the rules that says an organization is destroyed or
>> disbands when it has 0 members, so as far as I can tell, all the orgs
>> today still exist, they are just memberless.
>> 
>> Which is in some ways worse.
>
>Odd. there used to be a clause that said that they do disband.

If you can find it more power too you, I looked.   I admit I could have
missed something.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:04:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [ackanomic] Re: Acka: Gold Digger

> > Slakko still has #2 (an old one) and #5 (the one from T263b), at least
> > until that Gold Digger's results are returned.
> 
> What about the bonus vote I used in private email yesterday?  That one -
> you will note - was specified to be a recent one.

Slakko correctly pointed out that he used "one [Bonus Vote] I still have
out of the ones Wild Card gave me for finding the treasures" (which, due
to our random determinations, can only be #5 above) on P3724, as I reported
earlier, so the only BV he has left is one of his original ones, and the
T263b bonus vote is already gone.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:18:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Museum Scams.

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> anyway, we set up all our friends for free museum wins.  This is no worse
> than what K 2 tried to do with Proposal 3716, and IMHO not even that bad;
> it's simply a case of out-scamming the scamster K 2, and JT wanted to do
> this to pay K 2 back for wrecking most of the organizations of Acka.
> 

I hardly think that this sort of comment is appropriate for Bronze Torch
reasoning, which should be reasoned look at the Rules and their
application to a CFJ.   That's why they gave you a Bronze Torch, because,
in theory, you've shown some modicum of, well, judiciousness and maybe
propriety.

> If it is allowable for me to do so before it is distributed by the CotC,
> I am adding all the above text to the first of the three CWCFJ's from
> Museum Wins submitted yesterday, using my Bronze Torch.
> 
> /dev/joe
> 

IB
Bronze Torchless and hence still waiting for the appeal.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:20:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: go back to not voting

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> Over all, this proposal is a serious headache.
> 

It's a rule.  Feel free to scam it.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:58:16 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: go back to not voting

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
> >
> >> Oh look... all members of the Senate and the Grey Council are removed
> >> too...  Why did we repeal DoppleSlakko?
> >
> >I don't think so.  
> >
> >The Senators are removed from the Senate.  However, the rule does not
> >remove them from their Seats as Senators.
> >So Rule 40x, whatever it is, then immediately reasserts its authority and
> >puts the Senators back into the Senate.
> >
> >Same with Grey Council members.
> 
> Actually, not quite.   Players WERE removed from 2 of the 3 castes, which
> ALSO removed them from their Council seat, and I will note that there is
> no provision in the rules for a player entering a caste except newbies and
> players returning from On-Ice.  It will also now need to be checked
> against H-Sim when a player enters a caste in addition to anything else.
> Over all, this proposal is a serious headache.
> 
> --JT

Now might be a good time to consider if we really care about the castes at
all. I've yet to recieve a message from another member of the religious
castes as such. Nor have I recieved any from the Grey Council, of which I
was a member. If players don't actually have any ideas about what to do
with these castes, well its not as if we don't have plenty of other things
to occupy our time with. I will probably propose a repeal, in a few days,
if I don't see some overwhelmingly negative opinions in the meantime.

Vynd

[email-masked]

> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:42:04 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Potato (Calvin N Hobbes)

Calvin N Hobbes found the potato on Monday (sorry for the delay).
K 2 thus found the Tuba.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:47:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin Logan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: merging some lists together

>>That's actually not a bad idea.  What do other folks think?
>
>do others think?

huh, huh, people are stupid...

sIRE

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:13:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "bacon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Leaving

I am leaving....goodbye

b

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:36:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: more joining

>> I leave the Anti-Voting Preservationist Party.
>> 
>> --JT
>> 
>
>I also leave the Anti-Voting Preservationist Party.
>
>**two-star
>
As do I.

smallpox blanket.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:36:26 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Leaving

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, bacon wrote:
>I am leaving....goodbye

Bacon becomes a non-player since he never voted.

- --JT, Registrar

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:20:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gold Digger

At 07:02 PM 11/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I am calling for a Hostile Takeover on treasure 263b
>
>the valid responses are: "Right up there with the Jukkasjarvi Treasure" and
>"the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden to the soul" 
>
>I am the Gold Digger (hearing harfer). Respond to this message to vote
>
>In the event that the verdict of the Hostile Takeover is "Right up there
>with the Jukkasjarvi Treasure", the Gold Digger shall transfer The Standard
>Harfer Fee to the
>map writer. 
>
>In the event that the verdict is "the accumulation of money is a great evil
>and a burden to the soul"  then all entities in The Motherload, which the
>museum would accept if donated normally, are transferred to the North Wing
>of the Museum with the map writer as beneficiary. Any entities in the
>Motherload which were not transferred to the Museum's North wing by the
>previous sentence are transferred to the Treasury. Additionally the map
>writer shall pay The Standard Harfer Fee to the Gold Digger. 
>
>
>--Pol Pot
>
>Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master  --  Really
>Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Warrior Caste
> 

"Right up there with the Jukkasjarvi Treasure"

ThinMan
	EBS
Ethelred
Slakko
	EBS

"the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden to the soul"

else...if
JT
	EBS
	EBS
Thomas Jute
/dev/joe

another bad treasure...financier take note.

- --Pol Pot

Butthead -- Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master
- --  Really Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Religious Caste

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things you gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.
Over 50% of all voting players have a rebelliousness of "on"
Happy! Happy! Happy!
I'm on fire!
To Ganymede and Titan, yes sir I've been around
I apply to join all pseudofounded organizations, vote no on all outstanding
IPs, remove myself from the CFJ ineligibility list, and go home.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:55:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Leaving

JT wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, bacon wrote:
> >I am leaving....goodbye
> 
> Bacon becomes a non-player since he never voted.

Is this action unambiguous? E could be just leaving eir house.

**two-star

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #416
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