Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #404
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Wednesday, November 11 1998     Volume 03 : Number 404

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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:13:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Naming Query

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> To some extent I agree with rehustle here. I think we have to give officers
> some "common sense discretion" as you put it, because otherwise we'd have no
> officers, or not as many as we have offices anyway. In all honesty, I don't
> have a quibble with reading the rules as they are written as opposed to how
> they were intended either. Who knows what was intended. When I did the none
> self deleting {{Alfvaen gains 2 points}} in rule 340 my intention was to scam a
> win for Alfvaen, even though it didn't appear that way. What I do generally
> tend to object to is when JT (or anyone else, it really could be anyone) makes
> me resend something because I missed out some tiny little detail. The end
> result is identical so there's no reason we shouldn't let it slide but we
> don't. This is incredibly annoying (small a) and as TEFKAIB points out quite a
> nasty inconsistency.

Which is why I introduced a bit of pragmatism into Rule 340 a while back,
so that most rule-mandated text can be munged a bit, as long as the intent
is unambiguous.  Further elongation of this principle, up to a point,
might prove beneficial.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:26:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: ATTN: CALVIN N HOBBES

>>THE SENATE AND PROP 3720 ARE YOUR FRIENDS!
>>THE DIKTAT IS A BENIGN DIKTAT!
>>TURN YOUR REBELLIOUSNESS OFF!
>
>No Darth Vader, you are not my father!

Search your feelings CnH - you *know* it to be true!

anakin blanket.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:28:18 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Naming Query

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>Which is why I introduced a bit of pragmatism into Rule 340 a while back,
>so that most rule-mandated text can be munged a bit, as long as the intent
>is unambiguous.  Further elongation of this principle, up to a point,
>might prove beneficial.

I would certainly support such a bit of pragmatism.  I usually get anal
about rules when I am busy and checking a web page to find 'the most
expensive trinket' or whatever would take time away from something I am
trying to get done and could just have easily be done by the person making
the request.  This is beneficial to the harfers in that it frees them from
having to do extra work because players are (occasionally) dips (myself
included).  In those cases, I am more in favor of the stricter
interpretation of the rules.

In the cases of things like the description of the pyrotechnics for Chorg
or the poem for the SoC, I'm a bit less interested in ultra strict, but
leaving it off entirely does break the rules, so until those are changed I
don't see anyway to allow it yet not break the rules myself.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:40:40 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Bugger it then

I switch my rebel thingy ON

K 2

We prolly need two-star to switch to voting now.....

but just in case ;) I point out that more than 50% of players are in
rebellion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:42:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jonathon Abrams" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Hello

Good day folks.

I just wanted to introduce myself on here and say hello.

I hope I'm doing this right, as I'd hate to have my first message
be wrong somehow.

Thanks,

Jonathon.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:46:00 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Hello

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Jonathon Abrams wrote:
>Good day folks.
>
>I just wanted to introduce myself on here and say hello.

Hello :)

>I hope I'm doing this right, as I'd hate to have my first message
>be wrong somehow.

Well almost right :)  You need to put the word 'Acka:' on the subject
lines of Ackanomic related email or else you could be forced to post in
poetry for a while.

>Thanks,

No problem.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:58:58 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Finely Tuned Herring

I switch my rebelliousness characteristic ON.
I vote yes on all IPs that I have not already voted on (the one against JT as
president :)

k 2

JT wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >I go to the Library and play "I'm So Tired" by The Beatles on the
> >Ackanomic Sound System.  Then, if it is open, I go through the
> >little turnstile and into the Vault of the Book.  Why not.
>
> It has not yet been 24 hours, sorry.
>
> --JT
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:15:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Hello

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Jonathon Abrams wrote:

> Good day folks.
> 
> I just wanted to introduce myself on here and say hello.
> 
> I hope I'm doing this right, as I'd hate to have my first message
> be wrong somehow.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jonathon.

It's wrong on two counts.. although I haven't finished reading my mail,
I'm sure that someone has pointed out that you should include Acka: in the
subjec tline of all postings.

Also, you forgot to say "I set my rebelliousness characteristic to on."
It's an old Ackan tradition.  Trust me.  I'm no Idiot.. anymore.

RH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:25:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A second new player today.

>We have another new player.
>
And now, witness the end of your insignificant rebellion!

smallpox blanket.

A Star Wars quote for every occasion. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:36:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: 4 down, 20 to go

I have pointed my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at
eirs, and pressed the ENERGIZE button, giving the quoted anagram "sIRE".

smallpox blanket.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:22:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Re: Hello

>> I hope I'm doing this right, as I'd hate to have my first message
>> be wrong somehow.
>
>Also, you forgot to say "I set my rebelliousness characteristic to on."
>It's an old Ackan tradition.  Trust me.  I'm no Idiot.. anymore.

Just for your information, the proposal voting rights have been monopolized
by a so-called "benign diktat." A group of players are opposing this
tyranny, hopefully in time before disastrous proposals are imposed tomorrow
by a few upon all of Ackanomic.

This is where we see who believes in democracy: in the will of all players
and in government for all. The line is drawn between good and evil. The
alliance of rebels may yet fall in the last hour. Or secret heros may yet
lead the saving charge of the cavalry at the last minute, saving the day...

Long live Niccolo Flychuck and K2, the latest to join the fight!! With such
mighty and harfy players in our ranks, we _must_ prevail.

I keep my rebelliousness characteristic on.

Calvin N Hobbes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:26:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: ATTN: CALVIN N HOBBES

>>No Darth Vader, you are not my father!
>
>Search your feelings CnH - you *know* it to be true!
>
>anakin blanket.

You are not Anakin Blanket until you turn away from the dark side of the
force, Darth Vader. Yes, there is good in you, I can feel it. You will not
destroy my friends or I. Or surrender me to your emperor. Listen to the good
side of the force. Let it fill you. There _is_ good in you still, he hasn't
crushed it all.

Join us. Save us all. Please let me be able to tell my sister I was right
about you!

Calvin N Hobbes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:26:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: back in the saddle

I change my status to voting.

then,

I request membership in 'arf wif eir ead'.

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:29:01 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: back in the saddle

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Randy Hall wrote:
>I change my status to voting.

I welcome Saaremaa back into the game.

>then,
>
>I request membership in 'arf wif eir ead'.

I approve this request.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:31:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: ATTN: CALVIN N HOBBES

At 10:26 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>No Darth Vader, you are not my father!
>>
>>Search your feelings CnH - you *know* it to be true!
>>
>>anakin blanket.
>
>You are not Anakin Blanket until you turn away from the dark side of the
>force, Darth Vader. Yes, there is good in you, I can feel it. You will not
>destroy my friends or I. Or surrender me to your emperor. Listen to the good
>side of the force. Let it fill you. There _is_ good in you still, he hasn't
>crushed it all.
>
>Join us. Save us all. Please let me be able to tell my sister I was right
>about you!
>
>Calvin N Hobbes

So be it...Jedi.
If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.

(A star wars quote for THIS occasion)

- --A Mean Emperor.

Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master  --  Really
Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Warrior Caste

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:35:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: ATTN: CALVIN N HOBBES

>So be it...Jedi.
>If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.
>
>(A star wars quote for THIS occasion)
>
>
>--A Mean Emperor.

[geez, so much for benign!]

<zap> Arrrrrrrrgh <zap> <zap> <crackle> Faaather! <zap> <crackle>

Only now realizing the power of the dark side,
CnH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:35:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: riding into the sunset

I proxy my approval to 'arf wif eir ead'.

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:40:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: ATTN: CALVIN N HOBBES

At 10:35 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>So be it...Jedi.
>>If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.
>>
>>(A star wars quote for THIS occasion)
>>
>>
>>--A Mean Emperor.
>
>[geez, so much for benign!]
>
><zap> Arrrrrrrrgh <zap> <zap> <crackle> Faaather! <zap> <crackle>
>
>Only now realizing the power of the dark side,
>CnH
> 

Give yourself to the dark side. It is the only way you can save your
friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong.

- --A Mean Hat.

Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master  --  Really
Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Warrior Caste

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:47:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: back in the saddle

JT wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Randy Hall wrote:
> >I request membership in 'arf wif eir ead'.
> 
> I approve this request.

As do I.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:51:06 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: back in the saddle

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>JT wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Randy Hall wrote:
>> >I request membership in 'arf wif eir ead'.
>> 
>> I approve this request.
>
>As do I.

'Arf wif eir ead' has a Communist Single Player Membership policy, so one
approval was sufficient, but the support is appreciated.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:51:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: now HERE's a scam

Does anyone want me to retract proposal 3720? 

I'm mercenary; I'll do it.

Start making offers, you've got under a day.

It better be good.

- --A Mean Hat.

Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master  --  Really
Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Warrior Caste

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:55:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: back in the saddle

At 10:47 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>JT wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Randy Hall wrote:
>> >I request membership in 'arf wif eir ead'.
>> 
>> I approve this request.
>
>As do I.
>

I too.

Studge

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:03:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: now HERE's a scam

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> Does anyone want me to retract proposal 3720? 
> 
> I'm mercenary; I'll do it.
> 
> Start making offers, you've got under a day.
> 
> It better be good.
> 

 You'll never get away with this!

 (Where's Procerotops when you need him?)

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats.    \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:25:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: divot

I place myself on the CFJ ineligibilty list.

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:51:45 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Okay, Enough

I look at the divisiveness which has come over this great land of Ackanomic,
and I am saddened.

One side, who claims to only have our best interests at heart, has
exploited several loopholes to put themselves into a position of power.
The other side is, naturally enough, fighting this, because they hate
being disenfranchised.

The problem is that while we would probably like to believe that the
Elected Assembly("arf wif eir ead"?)are only going to do good and harmless
things, some of us _do_ remember the Vulcan coup, and much the same things
were said by them when they took power.

The difference may, perhaps, be that, by all accounts, the Vulcan coup was
not particularly organized.  (Well, at least that's what I seem to recall
Vynd saying, but I suppose e wasn't in at the beginning of that one...)
Whereas this one seems to have been hatched on IRC by those who frequent
it most.  (Again, I have this only on hearsay...)

I confess that the reason I voted for the Governments Rule Suite was that,
as a veteran Civilization player, I was attracted by the idea of changing
governments, having forgotten that it's not necessarily all that much fun
to be one of the ones not in power.  (In Civilization, no matter what the
government, you are always in power, you see, because there's only one real
person playing the game.)  Maybe it is a bad idea as originally implemented.
Okay.  Maybe the Felicitious Populi card was also a scam waiting to happen.
Okay.

And maybe I'm not a true player of Nomic, but I've always been of the
opinion that if you see a loophole in the Rules(which I don't, myself,
even tend to look for), you _fix_ it, you don't exploit it.  And this may
be why I distrust those of the other camp.  If you exploit a loophole,
then everyone else is perfectly within their rights to try to stop you
from getting away with it, according to the Rules.  Ideally, there should
be no loopholes, and if any are introduced, the Rules should contain
sufficient means to curtail their exploitation.

And this is what the other side has been trying to do.

So if you had tried to fix those loopholes peacefully, without exploiting
them, then maybe you wouldn't have had so much opposition.  And maybe it
was necessary for the spectre of disenfranchisement to show us how bad an
idea it really was in the first place.  Okay.

I apply for admission in "arf wif eir ead"(or however it is written,
exactly).  If what this organization really wants to do is patch the
holes in the ruleset, fine.  I can go along with that.  And the rest of
Ackanomic should know that I won't countenance a hell of a lot in the
way of Vulcanizing.  Okay, a Rule in the 1400's, maybe, but that's it.
If you refuse my membership, then I have no choice but to conclude that
you are only interested in power over the Ruleset for its own sake,
and that's just sad.

And, on another note:

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I ACTUALLY ALREADY HAD A CHEDDAR AND DIDN'T REALIZE
IT!  DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I'VE BEEN TRYING TO WRITE HARFY PROPOSALS JUST
TO TRY TO GET THAT THING?  AND I'D HAD ONE FOR TWO MONTHS!!!!!  AND I'M
NOT GOING TO GET FIVE MORE OFFICES JUST TO TRY TO START ALL OVER AGAIN!

If anyone has any suggestions for things I can do to properly illustrate
my immense stupidity, feel free to make them.

Now to try to actually go and read the last couple of days of email...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Stereolab:Emperor Tomato Ketchup
Current Book--Tom Wolfe:The Bonfire of The Vanities
Mix Zapf with Veljovic and get quirky Beziers.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:59:09 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Okay, Enough

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> I look at the divisiveness which has come over this great land of Ackanomic,
> and I am saddened.
> 
> One side, who claims to only have our best interests at heart, has
> exploited several loopholes to put themselves into a position of power.
> The other side is, naturally enough, fighting this, because they hate
> being disenfranchised.
> 
> The problem is that while we would probably like to believe that the
> Elected Assembly("arf wif eir ead"?)are only going to do good and harmless
> things, some of us _do_ remember the Vulcan coup, and much the same things
> were said by them when they took power.
> 
> The difference may, perhaps, be that, by all accounts, the Vulcan coup was
> not particularly organized.  (Well, at least that's what I seem to recall
> Vynd saying, but I suppose e wasn't in at the beginning of that one...)
> Whereas this one seems to have been hatched on IRC by those who frequent
> it most.  (Again, I have this only on hearsay...)
> 
> I confess that the reason I voted for the Governments Rule Suite was that,
> as a veteran Civilization player, I was attracted by the idea of changing
> governments, having forgotten that it's not necessarily all that much fun
> to be one of the ones not in power.  (In Civilization, no matter what the
> government, you are always in power, you see, because there's only one real
> person playing the game.)  Maybe it is a bad idea as originally implemented.
> Okay.  Maybe the Felicitious Populi card was also a scam waiting to happen.
> Okay.
> 
> And maybe I'm not a true player of Nomic, but I've always been of the
> opinion that if you see a loophole in the Rules(which I don't, myself,
> even tend to look for), you _fix_ it, you don't exploit it.  And this may
> be why I distrust those of the other camp.  If you exploit a loophole,
> then everyone else is perfectly within their rights to try to stop you
> from getting away with it, according to the Rules.  Ideally, there should
> be no loopholes, and if any are introduced, the Rules should contain
> sufficient means to curtail their exploitation.
> 
> And this is what the other side has been trying to do.
> 
> So if you had tried to fix those loopholes peacefully, without exploiting
> them, then maybe you wouldn't have had so much opposition.  And maybe it
> was necessary for the spectre of disenfranchisement to show us how bad an
> idea it really was in the first place.  Okay.
> 
> I apply for admission in "arf wif eir ead"(or however it is written,
> exactly).  If what this organization really wants to do is patch the
> holes in the ruleset, fine.  I can go along with that.  And the rest of
> Ackanomic should know that I won't countenance a hell of a lot in the
> way of Vulcanizing.  Okay, a Rule in the 1400's, maybe, but that's it.
> If you refuse my membership, then I have no choice but to conclude that
> you are only interested in power over the Ruleset for its own sake,
> and that's just sad.

Bravo! I would be greatly moved if you hadn't done something similar after
Vulcan accepted me as a member... ;)

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #404
*******************************