Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #397
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Saturday, November 7 1998      Volume 03 : Number 397

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:50:50 -0500 (EST)
From: The Drummond-Cole Family <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: is it scam or is it scam

 I change my status to voting.  I give all my money to Studge.

- -AJ

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:53:25 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: is it scam or is it scam

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, The Drummond-Cole Family wrote:
> I change my status to voting.  I give all my money to Studge.

Welcome back to the game AJ.   I hope your computer is better.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:56:05 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: no way

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Gavin M. Doig wrote:
>I change my name to the quoted string "smallpox blanket".

I ack this name change, and wonder why 'smallpox blanket'?

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 03:41:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fruit basket

>I think I already set my rebelliousness to ON.  In case I am mistaken, 
I
>now set my rebelliousness to ON.
>
>Should there in fact be another Rebellion very soon, I observe that 
there
>are appropriate proposals in the queue to effectively neuter the
>governments rule suite (I think).

I think that perhaps neuter ids the wrong word maybe more like disembowl 
:)

R-Attila The Farce
(:|Worker|General Contractor|Daring Adventurer|:)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ice Digging

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >> Actually, they are not tradeable since they are not defined as such by the
> >> rules.
> >> That was what I was trying to say :)
> >> The Artic Explorer only affects tradeable entities and the rules say
> >> 
> >> An entity is nontradeable unless the Rules specify otherwise.
> >> 
> >> Since the rules do not specify ANYTHING about Magic Radishes or Rocks to
> >> Wind String around, they are not tradeable.
> >
> >Which rules say that?  I believe it would be Rule 500, right?  Then it all
> >comes down to which order the things are in 500. 
> >
> >If nontradeability by default is first, then, being later in the document,
> >the non-manipulation of entities except as defined by the Rules would take
> >precedence.
> 
> Umm no, because here it's the rules making them non-tradeable, so there is
> no conflict there either.

Not explicitly.  It says that they are nontradeable, but it does not
_change_ them to being nontradeable.

The analogous situation I see is what happened back when some Orgs were
banned from owning Gadgets.  The _rules_ said Orgs could not own gadgets,
however it did not explicitly state that the Orgs lost possession of the
gadgets, and so the Orgs remained in possession of the Gadgets, in
violation of the rules.  

I would claim that these entities remain tradeable, in violation of the
rules, because a different part of Rule 500 has precedence.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 686 (The Green Ripper)

The Green Ripper has been selected.

Call for Judgement 686 - November 5, 1998
Subject: JT's Winning Condition (3rd time lucky)
Initiator: JT (sent 05 Nov 1998, 15:09 Acka)
Judge: The Green Ripper
Judgement:

Statement:
        JT has achieved a winning condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning:
        On  Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:53:15 -0500 (EST)  JT donated A$2705 to
the museum in the form of 2 of Malenkai's Gold Coins (#27 and #28) and
the trinket 'JT cleaned out his closet and found all of this junk' (value
of A$2703).  Since his Benefactor Value at the time of donation was
A$2296, this brought his total Benefactor Value to over A$5001.  Since
this was the first time that JT had a Benefactor Value greater than
A$5000, e achieved a Winning Condition.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 687 (K 2)

K 2 has been selected.

Call for Judgement 687 - November 5, 1998
Subject: Slakko Cycle Win By Points CFJ
Initiator: Slakko (sent 5 Nov 1998, 19:06 Acka)
Judge: K 2
Judgement:

Statement:

Slakko has achieved a Winning Condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning:

Eir score was the first to reach or exceed the Magic Number during the
current cycle.  The current scorekeeper's log documents this adequately.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 688 (Studge)

Studge has been selected.

Call for Judgement 688 - November 6, 1998
Subject: Go Fish Precedence
Initiator: JT (sent 06 Nov 1998, 04:19 Acka)
Judge: Studge
Judgement:

Statement:
The play of a Go Fish Otzma Card on Proposal 3720 did not cause the
proposal's voting period to end. 

Reasoning:
Rule 1240.2 does not have precedence over either rule 106 or rule 320.5. 

While I realize this is probably a trivial CFJ, I want it entered into
explicit game custom. 

Rule 106 says:
>Players eligible to vote on proposals may change their vote up until the
>end of the prescribed voting period, but in any case are limited to one
>vote per proposal.

and

>The prescribed voting period on a proposal is seven days, starting from
>the moment that the proposal is publicly distributed as >specified by the
>rules. 

Rule 320.5 says:
>When The Current Government of Ackanomia is Elected Assembly only the
>Senators, Speaker and President are eligible to vote on proposals. In
>addition a proposal will passif it meets quorum and receives a simple
>majority of votes. 

Rule 1240.2 says:
>When a Go Fish Card has been used on a proposal, the date of the end of
>the Voting on that Proposal is considered to the date it has been used.

Since rule 1240.2 does not claim precedence over rule 106, then it cannot
be modifying the prescribed voting period of the proposal, therefore the
only interpretation of rule 1240.2 is that it makes entities ineligble to
vote on the proposal after the card has been played and before the end of
voting period.

Even if this was the intent (not a particularly useful concept in
Ackanomic), it still fails, since rule 106 explicitly grants eligible
players the ability to change their votes until the end of the prescribed
voting period of 7 days and rule 320.5 grants the status of eligible
players to a specific group.

Without taking precedence over either of those rules, the OC Go Fish
cannot have the effect described in it's rule text, therefore this CFJ
should be judged TRUE.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Otzma Card Play (ACME InstaGadget)

I play an OC ACME InstaGadget, specifying that it shall create a Spell
Book of Chorg in my possession.

Due to the un-gofishable nature of the ACME IG card, the creation will
happen in 3 days time.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 05:49:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 680 (1-TRUE) (Amicus Draconis)

Slakko's appeal has sent this to JT and Vynd.
I note that nothing in the rules appears to prevent JT judging the appeal
of the CFJ he submitted.

Call for Judgement 680 - October 27, 1998
Subject: Museum CWCFJ
Initiator: JT (sent 27 Oct 1998, 03:42 Acka)
1st Judge: The Green Ripper (chosen 27 Oct 1998, 05:40 Acka) (declined)
2nd Judge: Fortunato (chosen 01 Nov 1998, 18:29 Acka)
Judgement: TRUE (promulgated 02 Nov 1998, 14:37 Acka)
Appellant: Slakko (appealed 05 Nov 1998, 14:30 Acka)
Cortex: Amicus Draconis (JT and Vynd)

Statement:
	JT has achieved a winning condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning:
	On  Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:53:15 -0500 (EST)  JT donated A$2705 to
the museum in the form of 2 of Malenkai's Gold Coins (#27 and #28) and
the trinket 'JT cleaned out his closet and found all of this junk' (value
of A$2703).  Since his Benefactor Value at the time of donation was
A$2296, this brought his total Benefactor Value to A$5001.  Since this was
the first time that JT had a Benefactor Value greater than A$5000, e
achieved a Winning Condition.

Judge's Reasoning:
Given that K 2 has confirmed that JT's BV is over 5000, I judge this to
be TRUE.

Appellant's Reasoning:

This CFJ was sent by JT less than 1 week after CFJ 676, which had an
identical statement.  It should therefore have been judged INVALID.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:02:25 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFCJ 174 (FALSE?) (under appeal)

> Call for Criminal Judgement 174 - September 12, 1998
> 2nd Cortex: Amicus Draconis (JT and Vynd) (chosen 31 Oct 1998 06:10 Acka)
> Judgement: TRUE (upheld)
>
> Statement:
> K 2 committed the Crime of Malpractice on Aug 28
>
> Cortex's reasoning:
>
> The real question in judging this CFJ is not if the Crime was commited,
> but when.
>
> We disagree with K 2 on this matter. If this were a case where K 2 had not
> yet logged Weishaupt as possessing anything on August 28, then his
> argument would be valid. He would not have performed his duty yet, but he
> would still have several days in which to do so. This is not what occured.

I am appealing this verdict with the following text which apears after
WHOME but
before COULDNTVEBEEN.

WHOME
After giving the matter some consideration, I searched the mail logs to
see if
there was any publicly knowable evidence that I did not harf Weishaupt's
entry
into Acka on the 28th.

The logs confirm that I posted messages on the 26th of August (~13:06)
and then
again on the 29th of August (~13:32). It seems reasonable to assume that
I
downloaded my mail at these times as well.

Furthermore the messages posted on 29th of August:

i) Sat, 29 Aug. 1998 16:48:03 (v03.n290), in reply to an action on 28
Aug. 1998
14:22:40 (v03.n288).
ii) Sat, 29 Aug. 1998 13:33:22 (v03.n204), publicly delivering a verdict
to CFJ
648 distributed on 27 Aug. 1998 15:13:18 (v03.n287) and retracted on 28
Aug.
1998 03:59:40 (v03.n288), followed by my oops statement on 29 Aug. 1998
16:47:57
(v03.n204).

would indicate the case of i) that I had only recently read the message
from 28
Aug. 1998 14:22:40 and in the case of ii) that I had not read the
retraction
message from 28 Aug. 1998 03:59:40, at the time I posted my replies
(i.e. 29
Aug. 1998 ~13:00).

While it is possible I downloaded my mail between 26th and 28th of
August
without sending mail, it is highly unlikely I silently downloaded after
3:52:29
(when Weis joined) but before 3:59:40 (the time of the CFJ retraction I
didn't
know about) on the 28th of August.

Thus it is impossible (or nearly so) for me to have harfed Weishaupt's
possessions on the 28th of August simply because I had not
downloaded/read my
mail at that time.
COULDNTVEBEEN

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:07:43 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Paranoia

If it is the case that the Mad Hatters own the hat with the condition
"The wearer of this hat has more fleas than a barrel full of
monkeys, and both fleas and barrels full of monkeys are defined by the
rules.", I purchase it for A$10.

K 2
paranoid.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:13:35 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 687 (Alfvaen)

The point logs seem to reflect the truth of this statement; I wonder if the
scorekeeper could give the current information presented on the web page the
gold star of correctness before I rule on this CFJ.

K 2
ntEiCoTT

Duncan Richer wrote:

> K 2 has been selected.
>
> Call for Judgement 687 - November 5, 1998
> Subject: Slakko Cycle Win By Points CFJ
> Initiator: Slakko (sent 5 Nov 1998, 19:06 Acka)
> Judge: K 2
> Judgement:
>
> Statement:
>
> Slakko has achieved a Winning Condition during the current cycle.
>
> Reasoning:
>
> Eir score was the first to reach or exceed the Magic Number during the
> current cycle.  The current scorekeeper's log documents this adequately.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:14:26 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 687 (K 2)

> K 2 has been selected.

> Call for Judgement 687 - November 5, 1998
> Subject: Slakko Cycle Win By Points CFJ
> Initiator: Slakko (sent 5 Nov 1998, 19:06 Acka)
> Judge: K 2
> Judgement:

> Statement:

> Slakko has achieved a Winning Condition during the current cycle.

> Reasoning:

> Eir score was the first to reach or exceed the Magic Number during the
> current cycle.  The current scorekeeper's log documents this adequately.

Why is this CWCFJ necessary?  I already stated that this was the case,
so it shouldn't be.  Or is this a scam to get two cycle wins out of it?
I thought we'd fixed that.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Song--Lush:Ladykillers
Current Book--Tom Wolfe:The Bonfire of The Vanities
Y is for Yoric whose head was bashed in, Z is for Zilla who drank too much gin.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:16:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: hats

If it is the case that the Mad Hatters own the hat with the condition
"The owner of this hat and the owner of the hat whose number is five higher
than this one are members of the same Caste.", I purchase it for A$10.

I take off the hat i am currently wearing.

I wear the hat i own with the above condition.

 
- --A Mean Hat.

Crazy French Scotsman -- Daring Adventurer -- Dungeon Master  --  Really
Weird --  Rule-Harfer -- Warrior Caste

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:18:46 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 687 (K 2)

JT voiced a complaint - so it had to go to a CFJ.

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > K 2 has been selected.
>
> > Call for Judgement 687 - November 5, 1998
> > Subject: Slakko Cycle Win By Points CFJ
> > Initiator: Slakko (sent 5 Nov 1998, 19:06 Acka)
> > Judge: K 2
> > Judgement:
>
> > Statement:
>
> > Slakko has achieved a Winning Condition during the current cycle.
>
> > Reasoning:
>
> > Eir score was the first to reach or exceed the Magic Number during the
> > current cycle.  The current scorekeeper's log documents this adequately.
>
> Why is this CWCFJ necessary?  I already stated that this was the case,
> so it shouldn't be.  Or is this a scam to get two cycle wins out of it?
> I thought we'd fixed that.
>
> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
> Current Song--Lush:Ladykillers
> Current Book--Tom Wolfe:The Bonfire of The Vanities
> Y is for Yoric whose head was bashed in, Z is for Zilla who drank too much gin.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:21:54 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 687 (K 2)

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>> Call for Judgement 687 - November 5, 1998
>> Subject: Slakko Cycle Win By Points CFJ
>> Initiator: Slakko (sent 5 Nov 1998, 19:06 Acka)
>> Judge: K 2
>> Judgement:
>
>> Statement:
>
>> Slakko has achieved a Winning Condition during the current cycle.
>
>> Reasoning:
>
>> Eir score was the first to reach or exceed the Magic Number during the
>> current cycle.  The current scorekeeper's log documents this adequately.
>
>Why is this CWCFJ necessary?  I already stated that this was the case,
>so it shouldn't be.  Or is this a scam to get two cycle wins out of it?
>I thought we'd fixed that.

No.  I objected to your declaration Alfvaen because Slakko was being
piddly about the timing on the previous CWCFJ I'd submitted.   The rules
don't require my objection to have a reason, but they allow me to object.
That is why the CWCFJ was necessary.

- --JT

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:22:23 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma Card Play (ACME InstaGadget)

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>I play an OC ACME InstaGadget, specifying that it shall create a Spell
>Book of Chorg in my possession.

I do not believe you had A$500 to spend on this.  Since an Spell Book of
chorg has never been publically auctioned, that's the price you needed to
pay.  Not to mention you forgot to say that you were paying the amount.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:22:30 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 686 (The Green Ripper)

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>The Green Ripper has been selected.

The Green Ripper is still non-voting, and thus not eligible to be a judge
of a CFJ.  Please reassign to a valid judge.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:23:08 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 688 (Studge)

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

>Studge has been selected.
>
>Call for Judgement 688 - November 6, 1998
>Subject: Go Fish Precedence
>Initiator: JT (sent 06 Nov 1998, 04:19 Acka)
>Judge: Studge
>Judgement:

I retract this CFJ as I said I would when Slakko pointed out that it
wouldn't actually create game custom as I'd hoped.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:33:21 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Step 1

If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
Scorekeeper.

I also resign as Illuminatus.

I go to the Library if I am not there, play "Oh The Drears" by Happy
Rhodes on the Ackanomic Sound System, and go through the turnstiles
and past the stuffed goose head into the Vault of the Book.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Song--Lush:Olympia
Current Book--Tom Wolfe:The Bonfire of The Vanities
"What a tasteful and relevant little story."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:37:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Desperation

>I submit an Impeachment Paper against JT for the Office of President.
>It's probably too late to stop the horror we are about to descend into,
>but it makes me feel slightly better.
>
I vote NO on this.

smallpox blanket.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:41:42 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: Alfvaen
# Ackanomicon Determination
# based on the following (using a 49 sided die)
#  1 - 15 Arcane Trivia
# 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies
# 21 - 25 Inner Workings
# 26 - 30 Arcane Lore
# 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages
# 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact
# 35 - 36 Mutation
# 37 - 38 Dark Domain
# 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure
# 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit
# 42 - 42 Catastrophe
# 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit
# 47 - 47 Ancient One
# 48 - 49 Judgement Day

No. of sides on every die:     49
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      8

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
    An army of editors surfing the web for you!
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=================================================

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Sat Nov  7 09:41:29 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id JAA10176 for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:41:29 -0800
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma010174; Sat Nov  7 09:41:19 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA27599
>       for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:41:22 -0800
> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:41:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Nomicon
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 49
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination
> 
> #C Player: Alfvaen
> #C Ackanomicon Determination
> #C based on the following (using a 49 sided die)
> #C
> #C  1 - 15 Arcane Trivia
> #C 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies
> #C 21 - 25 Inner Workings
> #C 26 - 30 Arcane Lore
> #C 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages
> #C 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact
> #C 35 - 36 Mutation
> #C 37 - 38 Dark Domain
> #C 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure
> #C 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit
> #C 42 - 42 Catastrophe
> #C 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit
> #C 47 - 47 Ancient One
> #C 48 - 49 Judgement Day
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:01:34 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
>Scorekeeper.

It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)

>I also resign as Illuminatus.

Well, I was going to do this anyway since K2 mused that it might work.
I had also mused something similar about this in the past, but had decided
to hold of on exploiting it (or trying to)
What the heck.

I submit the following CFJ as delimited by HATS.  Headers are for
convenience.
HATS
Statement:
JT achieved a winning condition on 27 Oct 1998 04:06:42 (which is during
the current cycle) through the action of rule 607.

Reasoning:
When Slakko judged UNDECIDED on CFJ 376, I realized that I'd misread the
rule 607.
I then sold two hats (numbered 1 and 12) to the Mad Hatters.
At this point I recieved the title Agent of KAOS, since I had hats
C7, 3, and 8, all of which were TRUE and my score was greater than or
equal to the sum of those three hats.

At this point a few things happened simultaneously and an infinitesimal
amount of time after I recieved the title.
a) I was payed A$40 from the owners of the Eggplants corresponding to
   hats C7, 3, and 8 (Studge, K2 and Gromit)
b) The goose went somewhere else according to rule 620.

An infinitesimal time after a) above, the following events occured in
order, and an infinitesimal amount of time apart.

c) the agenda hats (C7, 3, and 8) were destroyed.
d) I (as the Agent of KAOS) achieved a Winning Condition.

The only issue here is whether or not step b) occured where I have it
above (or at some other point before step d) or if it occured after d).

I contend that the 'event' being referred to in rule 620 is the donation
of the hats to the Mad Hatters.  This triggered the first part of rule 607
and gave me the title.   This event did not give me a winning condition as
well, as that happens due to a further sequence of events, all of which
occur some infinitesmal amount of time after I recieve the title.
Therefore the firing of rule 620 happened immediately upon my recieving
the title and did not wait until after I had achieved the Winning
Condition later in the rule.
HATS

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Truthtelling.

It's whatever date I say it is!

Today is Friday, the 6th day of November, and the Machine That Goes *ping*
Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone
*ping* 1 times.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:28:32 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
> >Scorekeeper.

> It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
> and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)

Was I misremembering someone(probably you)saying that a cycle ended on
Friday?  Anyway, I'm finding it more effort than I care to exert these
days keeping track of all this stuff, quite frankly.  Which is why I
really think that someone else should be taking care of this stuff.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Happy Rhodes:Would That I Could
Current Book--Tom Wolfe:The Bonfire of The Vanities
You can't jump a jet plane like you can a freight train

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:36:49 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

>On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>>If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
>>Scorekeeper.
>
>It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
>and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)

Since as Alfvaen just pointed out (and I confirmed via his page) it is in
fact cycle 24.

I announce the beginning of nominations for the office of Scorekeeper.
Please reply to this message to nominate yourself.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:39:27 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>> >If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
>> >Scorekeeper.
>
>> It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
>> and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)
>
>Was I misremembering someone(probably you)saying that a cycle ended on
>Friday?  Anyway, I'm finding it more effort than I care to exert these
>days keeping track of all this stuff, quite frankly.  Which is why I
>really think that someone else should be taking care of this stuff.

There were supposed to be 2.   Slakko appealed mine and I objected to his,
therefore no cycles ended on friday.

and since it still is cycle 24, ignore my last mail, since Alfvaen hasn't
announced his attention to resign yet.. (I missed the negative there when
I read it.. I'm WAY tired still today)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:40:54 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>>>If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
>>>Scorekeeper.
>>
>>It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
>>and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)
>
>Since as Alfvaen just pointed out (and I confirmed via his page) it is in
>fact cycle 24.
>
>I announce the beginning of nominations for the office of Scorekeeper.
>Please reply to this message to nominate yourself.

I donate A$1 to the twits.
Ignore this :/ I missed the negative above.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 14:00:47 -0500 (EST)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ice Digging

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>> >Which rules say that?  I believe it would be Rule 500, right?  Then it all
>> >comes down to which order the things are in 500. 
>> >
>> >If nontradeability by default is first, then, being later in the document,
>> >the non-manipulation of entities except as defined by the Rules would take
>> >precedence.
>> 
>> Umm no, because here it's the rules making them non-tradeable, so there is
>> no conflict there either.
>
>Not explicitly.  It says that they are nontradeable, but it does not
>_change_ them to being nontradeable.

I'll redo the random determination.  If the determination is different
then I will submit a CFJ as to which is correct.

>The analogous situation I see is what happened back when some Orgs were
>banned from owning Gadgets.  The _rules_ said Orgs could not own gadgets,
>however it did not explicitly state that the Orgs lost possession of the
>gadgets, and so the Orgs remained in possession of the Gadgets, in
>violation of the rules.  

I'm not sure I agree with that CFJ either, and as you recently pointed
out, CFJs don't become part of game custom explicitly, so if I can make a
good enough argument on the CFJ (should I need to make one which is
likely) then perhaps implicit game custom can be changed.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 14:03:27 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Ice Digging

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: JT
# JT played an arctic explorer against Balsamic Dragon
# This is what he got
#  1 - 2   A Bonus Vote
#  3 - 3   A Whamiol
#  4 - 4   A Guardian Angel
#  5 - 5   Rock to wind a string around
#  6 - 6   Magic Radish

No. of sides on every die:      6
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      6

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
    An army of editors surfing the web for you!
               http://www.NewHoo.com/
=================================================

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Sat Nov  7 11:03:05 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id LAA13668 for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:03:05 -0800
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma013643; Sat Nov  7 11:03:02 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27972
>       for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:02:58 -0800
> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:02:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Ice Digging
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 6
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Ice Digging
> 
> #C Player: JT
> #C JT played an arctic explorer against Balsamic Dragon
> #C This is what he got
> #C
> #C  1 - 2   A Bonus Vote
> #C  3 - 3   A Whamiol
> #C  4 - 4   A Guardian Angel
> #C  5 - 5   Rock to wind a string around
> #C  6 - 6   Magic Radish
> 

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.7

iQCVAwUBNkSZeT8NitsTFjcVAQFfSQQAvD3YGWyClg9EsHCmCP8M9rrCo4pl8PG9
ikaBLBmmZ2mI6SMl1JwOFGxgZT7qRBaEwIOWRa3J/Nl17vVhOxwhqSaxQPUP85sC
HO8JNbq+1XVeHV24jol7fqpUQHFkwHWzUppJLETProx8zptCQcftW38f5Nwt3bnN
3C4CXWk/jvI=
=XnYI
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:09:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Demagogury.

On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Matt Miller wrote:

> Vynd tells me that those of us who tried to stop Studge, a Mean Hat, JT
> and /dev/joe from taking over are Good.  The others are Evil.  Shouldn't
> you vote for Good?

Ah, but you see, Lone Starr, Evil will always triumph over Good...

[ reasons deleted because... ]

If I am not already in that state, I change my state to Voting.

I vote YES on the Impeachment Paper against /dev/joe.
I vote YES on the Impeachment Paper against Studge.
I vote YES on the Impeachment Paper against Slakko.
I vote YES on the Impeachment Paper against Rex Mundi.
I vote YES on the Impeachment Paper against JT.
I vote YES on the other Impeachment Paper against JT.

- -The Green Ripper

If a Stealth bomber crashes in the forest, does it make a sound? 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:18:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
> >Scorekeeper.
> 
> It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
> and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)

24.  Look at players/cyclewin.html and you will see the first 23 Cycle
wins listed.

- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:19:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Step 1

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, JT wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >>If it is the case that it is no longer Cycle 24, then I resign as
> >>Scorekeeper.
> >
> >It is in fact still the current cycle, for slightly more than another day
> >and a half. (I think that's 23, not 24 though, but I could be mistaken)
> 
> Since as Alfvaen just pointed out (and I confirmed via his page) it is in
> fact cycle 24.
> 
> I announce the beginning of nominations for the office of Scorekeeper.
> Please reply to this message to nominate yourself.

Ummmm - he didn't resign, did he?
- -- 
Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College
http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/    Ackanomic     | U. of Cambridge
Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator  | 2nd Year PhD(PMa)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:25:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 686 (The Green Ripper)

My initial selection of TGR was invalid, as e was non-voting.
I attempt to give A$1 to the Twits, then realise "Hey! I haven't got any
money!"  I therefore give A$25 to the Twits.

I have now selected a voting player to judge it.

This voting player is:

The Green Ripper.

(Don't you just love changes in voting status?)

Call for Judgement 686 - November 5, 1998
Subject: JT's Winning Condition (3rd time lucky)
Initiator: JT (sent 05 Nov 1998, 15:09 Acka)
Judge: The Green Ripper
Judgement:

Statement:
        JT has achieved a winning condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning:
        On  Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:53:15 -0500 (EST)  JT donated A$2705 to
the museum in the form of 2 of Malenkai's Gold Coins (#27 and #28) and
the trinket 'JT cleaned out his closet and found all of this junk' (value
of A$2703).  Since his Benefactor Value at the time of donation was
A$2296, this brought his total Benefactor Value to over A$5001.  Since
this was the first time that JT had a Benefactor Value greater than
A$5000, e achieved a Winning Condition.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #397
*******************************