Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #352
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest       Thursday, October 8 1998       Volume 03 : Number 352

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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Duel

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

>> > It is given to me as second to the the really weird and Mean Hat to
>> > challenge saaremaa 
>
>I, as second to elder saaremaa, accept this challenge.  The contest
>shall be Ye Olde Rusty Lantern, and saaremaa informs me JT agreed to
>referee.

I have indeed agreed to Barkeep this.

As Herald, I now announce the beginning of the duel.

Details will follow on the acka-games list.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:18:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Otzma action

I play my Otzma Card Map Shard and name A Mean Hat and treasure 246

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:22:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Rafting trip

>Altra the FireCat is given an Ancient Relic which he Must Describe.

Altra's Mantle of Power

This is an exquisitely colored cloak.  With great detailing that makes 
the cloak appear as though it is made of Fire. Exept when one views the 
insides of the cloak which are made completly of Black, yes Black, satin 
lining.  The hem always hovers an inch above the ground, and never in 
any case touches it. 

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:31:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Chorging forward

I currently own 3 Spell books of Chorg.
I am reading the one which is currently at page 5 and the one which is
currently at page 10.

I am not reading the one which is currently at page 2 (the one I'm
auctioning)

The first one (page 5 from the first  book) explodes in a large ball of
green and amber fire as it is read, leaving behind a faint whiff of myhrr.

The second one (page 10 from the other book) vanishes in the merest whiff
of lavender scented smoke.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:41:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Forked Tongue

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: JT
# This player has a forked tongue and read a Spell Book of Chorg or
# some small number of pages from the ackanomicon
# Since two books were read, the two numbers are in order.
# First number is page 5, second is page 10
#  1 -  25 The tongue worked.
# 26 - 100 The tongue did not work and the determination is random.

No. of sides on every die:    100
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    2
No. of rolls per line:          2

     62     64

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Wed Oct  7 23:41:27 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id XAA25710 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:41:27 -0700
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma025698; Wed Oct  7 23:41:24 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04880
>       for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:42:09 -0700
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Tongue
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 100
> #D 1
> #R 2
> #L 2
> #T Acka: Forked Tongue
> 
> #C Player: JT
> #C This player has a forked tongue and read a Spell Book of Chorg or
> #C some small number of pages from the ackanomicon
> #C Since two books were read, the two numbers are in order.
> #C First number is page 5, second is page 10
> #C
> #C  1 -  25 The tongue worked.
> #C 26 - 100 The tongue did not work and the determination is random.
> 
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:44:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Probabilistic Gadget

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: JT
# A rule required the awarding of a random gadget
# There are two books of chorg being read.  1st gadget comes from page 5,
# of one book, the other from page 10 o fthe second.
# It was determined by the following schedule
#  1    - Scroll of Crumble
#  2    - Really Big Blue Thing
#  3    - Whamiol
#  4    - Vending Machine
#  5    - Automatic Sculpture
#  6    - Evil Ballot Stuffer
#  7    - Spell Book of Chorg
#  8    - Plunky Monkey Wrench
#  9    - Cheez-Whiz
# 10    - Silver Spaceship
# 11    - BWG Laser
# 12    - Butler
# 13    - Pyraic Frobnotzer
# 14    - BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment
# 15    - Good Ballot Stuffer
# 16    - Transtemporal Holographic Image Recording Device
# 17    - Guardian Angel
# 18    - Highlander's Sword

No. of sides on every die:     18
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    2
No. of rolls per line:          2

     13      9

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
    An army of editors surfing the web for you!
               http://www.NewHoo.com/
=================================================

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Wed Oct  7 23:43:57 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id XAA25766 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:43:57 -0700
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma025764; Wed Oct  7 23:43:52 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04892
>       for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:44:38 -0700
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Random gadget
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 18
> #D 1
> #R 2
> #L 2
> #T Acka: Probabilistic Gadget
> 
> #C Player: JT
> #C A rule required the awarding of a random gadget
> #C There are two books of chorg being read.  1st gadget comes from page 5,
> #C of one book, the other from page 10 o fthe second.
> #C It was determined by the following schedule
> #C
> #C  1         - Scroll of Crumble
> #C  2 - Really Big Blue Thing
> #C  3 - Whamiol
> #C  4 - Vending Machine
> #C  5 - Automatic Sculpture
> #C  6 - Evil Ballot Stuffer
> #C  7 - Spell Book of Chorg
> #C  8 - Plunky Monkey Wrench
> #C  9 - Cheez-Whiz
> #C 10 - Silver Spaceship
> #C 11 - BWG Laser
> #C 12 - Butler
> #C 13 - Pyraic Frobnotzer
> #C 14 - BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment
> #C 15 - Good Ballot Stuffer
> #C 16 - Transtemporal Holographic Image Recording Device
> #C 17 - Guardian Angel
> #C 18 - Highlander's Sword
> 
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:48:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Cheez-whiz and frobnotzers

Having no use for either of these, I donate them to the museum.

- --JT, wondering what happens to his BV when they vape from the museum.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Book to Green Ripper

I offer the Spell book of Chorg which is at page 11 to The Green Ripper.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:52:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bryan Federico" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Forked Tounge

I go to the Genetic Institute
I buy a forked tounge

Altra The FireCat
- -General Contractor-Worker-Daring Adventurer-

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 02:53:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma action

At 02:18 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I play my Otzma Card Map Shard and name A Mean Hat and treasure 246
>
>--JT
>
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
>[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

"posts the word Hubert without explanation for three days in"
- --A Mean Hat.
  Dungeon Master - Warrior Caste - Crazy French Scotsman - Really Weird

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 03:00:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Starting something new

Hubert.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 03:12:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: *ping*

Today is Thursday, the 8th day of October, and the Machine That Goes
*ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
gone *ping* 13 times.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:58:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: Treasure.

Wild Card wrote:

> I think that strictly I found treasure 231 on 1st October, but I'm not
>going to publish the map - so I didn't.
>
> So it is available sometime next year.
>
> Note that one person has won in September already - Malenkai - and so he
>is exempt from this treasure.

I don't get it.  Either you found it or you didn't -- I don't see where
you have the liberty to satisfy the map conditions but decide that you
have not found the treasure.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:00:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: action

/dev/joe wrote:

>Vynd wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Randy Hall wrote:
>> 
>> > I request membership in Vulcan.
>> > 
>> > saaremaa
>> > Evil Overlord of Ackanomic, Retired (i think)
>> > 
>> 
>> I suggest that Vulcan accept saaremaa as a new (ish) member.
>
>I approve.

My support is proxied, so I have already approved, but I give my 
full approval anyway.  Welcome back to Vulcan, saaremaa!

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:47:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Acka: Treasure.

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, John Bollinger wrote:

> Wild Card wrote:
> 
> > I think that strictly I found treasure 231 on 1st October, but I'm not
> >going to publish the map - so I didn't.
> >
> > So it is available sometime next year.
> >
> > Note that one person has won in September already - Malenkai - and so he
> >is exempt from this treasure.
> 
> I don't get it.  Either you found it or you didn't -- I don't see where
> you have the liberty to satisfy the map conditions but decide that you
> have not found the treasure.

 Well, as I remember you have to publish the map in order to prove the
find first.

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing a Silly Agenda Hat.   \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:11:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: Treasure.

>On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, John Bollinger wrote:
>> Wild Card wrote:
>> 
>> > I think that strictly I found treasure 231 on 1st October, but I'm not
>> >going to publish the map - so I didn't.
>> >
>> > So it is available sometime next year.
>> >
>> > Note that one person has won in September already - Malenkai - and so he
>> >is exempt from this treasure.
>> 
>> I don't get it.  Either you found it or you didn't -- I don't see where
>> you have the liberty to satisfy the map conditions but decide that you
>> have not found the treasure.
>
> Well, as I remember you have to publish the map in order to prove the
>find first.

You are missing the point.  It is true that the treasure is not found until
the map is disclosed, but that is a timing issue.  I am talking about the
requirements of the rules.  The map writer/custodian is not empowered to
refuse to disclose the map in order to prevent any player who has achieved
the map conditions (even himself) from finding the treasure.  I looked it
up in rule 1217:

	Upon a player (who is not a map custodian with respect to the map
	in question) achieving the conditions for finding buried Treasure
	as specified by a Treasure Map, it is a duty of the map writer or
	a map custodian (if any exist) to make this fact, and the map,
	public (once they become aware of the condition being achieved,
	and final act that lead to the condition being achieved is
	publically knowable). This action destroys the map, and the
	player who achieved the conditions receives the Treasure....

It is a _duty_ of the map writer to publicize the map and announce the
treasure's discovery once it happens.  If the conditions have been
satisfied then the map should be disclosed and the the treasure found,
even if the map writer unintentionally found it himself.

I note that there is a distinction between map custodian and map writer --
the former is not permitted to find the treasure, but the latter is.  Map
writers are generally not map custodians for their own treasures.  All of
this is spelled out elsewhere in R 1217.

Nomic is about obeying the rules, even when we walk ourselves into a
corner.  The treasure rules in this nomic are open to abuse because there
is no way to verify compliance in several areas.  The fact that the rules
are open to abuse does not constitute a license to abuse them, however.
Have they been abused in this case?  I do not know, not being the map
writer.

ThinMan

P.S.:  Rule 1217 also says that the _first_ player to satisfy the conditions
gets the treasure once the map is disclosed.  It is therefore pointless to
withhold the map if you have already satisfied the conditions -- even if
another player satisfies them later you will still receive the treasure
when the map is finally revealed.  TM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:09:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: AJ

AJ (my brother, and as yet not the *largest* voice in Acka) just informed
me that his computer completely died.  It will be a while before it can be
repaired, and until that time he can't access his mail, etc.   So, if i
can, I, with his support, announce that AJ is going on vacation with an
expected return date of 4 weeks from now (probably sooner, but a cushion is
better)
- --A Mean Hat.
  Dungeon Master - Warrior Caste - Crazy French Scotsman - Really Weird

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:30:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Acka: Treasure.

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, John Bollinger wrote:

> Nomic is about obeying the rules, even when we walk ourselves into a
> corner.  The treasure rules in this nomic are open to abuse because there
> is no way to verify compliance in several areas.  The fact that the rules
> are open to abuse does not constitute a license to abuse them, however.
> Have they been abused in this case?  I do not know, not being the map
> writer.

 I don't think it would actually harm me, since someone else has had
gained the Goose more recently than the 1st.  But more importantly I feel
that there is enough ambiguity in the map that I might not even have
theoretically found it (the problem of writing treasure maps in verse).

 Still...

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing a Silly Agenda Hat.   \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #352
*******************************