Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #318
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Monday, September 14 1998      Volume 03 : Number 318

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:18:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Trinket

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>On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, K 2 wrote:
>
>> With this message Weishaupt would've became weird only e appears to
be the
>> harfmeister so e is really weird. I don't have anyone else listed as
being
>> Really Weird so e is either the first or someone needs to tell me
something
>> :)
>>
>> K 2
>
>Well, perhaps Hoover 2000 should be granted the title as well.  As a
sign
>of respect.
>
>Speaking of Hoover, I'd always meant to ask...  Does anyone here know
him
>in some way, or did he just stumble across Acka?
>
>Vynd

I spammed all the former plaers of the game recently (to see if I could
re awaken eir interest in the game) - you wouldn't beleive the number of
bounces - well okay you would. I got a reply from Hoover 2300 and I
would just like to share it with everbody.

K 2

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:04:55 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM

K 2 wrote:

> I bet that's a subject line you thought you were well rid of :)
>
> Anyway, just out of curiosity (how many bounces will I get ;) I thought
> I contact all former players of ackanomic; just in case you were looking
> for something to do ;)
>
> the main page is at:
>  http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/index.html
>
> and JT is the registrar: [email-masked]
>
> K 2

> I did'nt do what I was supposed to do did I?

  I was never one to follow rules biogram logogram fuck it and have a graham
waffer.
  To tell ya the truth it was confusing form e seemed to me that many other
levels were going on about and I did'nt see the cheese from the harp

peace

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 03:15:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: money

I gift Weishaupt A$ 245.

Studge

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 03:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ian K." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: See Ya!

I leave Ackanomic.

Koxvolio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:07:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: See Ya!

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Ian K. wrote:
>I leave Ackanomic.
>
>Koxvolio

Koxvolio has gone on-ice.  Any trinkets (and land and houses) he owned
have gone into the treasure.

K 2, could you please send me a list of all trinkets that have gone into
the treasure from all on-ice players so that I may accurately destroy them
in the trinket archives.  Thanks.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: See Ya!

JT wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Ian K. wrote:
> >I leave Ackanomic.
> >
> >Koxvolio
>
> Koxvolio has gone on-ice.  Any trinkets (and land and houses) he owned
> have gone into the treasure.
>
> K 2, could you please send me a list of all trinkets that have gone into
> the treasure from all on-ice players so that I may accurately destroy them
> in the trinket archives.  Thanks.

I've written a proposal which will un-destroy them and return them to eir
rightful owners....

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:10:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: acka: burn baby burn

I create a trinket of value A$1 called "Fire" with the description "I spy a
bandwagon, and I'm gonna jump on it".

I put this trinket on the ground and stand on it. I officially declare myself
to be on "Fire".

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:21:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: Re: Acka: Phoebe

>rufus, no known picture of me on the web

Not so, there is currently circulating video footage of you being rubbed down
by a mystery girl after a jog.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:22:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: Re: Acka: Harf

>> 3570 (Insane Emperor)
>
>Unfortunately, only the first two of these succeed, because I had already
>declared 3549 Harfy, and it is still under voting consideration.

Shame, but I'm just wondering whether or not I should retract the proposal
anyway, because I fear if we ever had a government type Insane Emperor it would
break the game. On the other hand, since the proposal wouldn't have any
*immediate* game efect if accepted, maybe it can be tweaked by a subsequent
proposal to stop the game-breaking aspects of it.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:18:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3550 accepted

nomicbot wrote:

> K 2                  (AVPP)

I'm pretty sure I left the AVPP.
I leave it again.

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:28:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3553 accepted

 I go into the wilds. I eat an amber banana. I create a Muumuu thereby :). I
remove all my garments and wear the Muumuu. I move to the town hall and hula
dance on the steps thereof. I continue to hula dance until I specifically state
that I am stopping.

K 2

breadbox in the guise of nomicbot wrote:

> > WAHINE
> > Muumuus are Garments. Any player may create a Muumuu by going to the Wilds
> > of Ackanomic and eating an Amber Banana.
> >
> > A player wearing a Muumuu and no other Garments(except, possibly, Hats) may
> > hula dance as a public action, even on the town hall steps; this takes
> > precedence over any Rule which would prohibit such dancing.
> > WAHINE

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:20:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3550 accepted

>> K 2                  (AVPP)
> 
> I'm pretty sure I left the AVPP.
> I leave it again.

Argh, so you had.... I missed it in that huge email of actions.

Fortunately the AVPP has had no Unity Votes since September 8th, so
this doesn't invalidate any of my reports. *phew*

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:33:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka: Fire

Weishaupt wrote:
:sorry bout forgetting the "Acka".
:
:Piz: can i have the treasure now?

Da. Oui. You betcha.

Piz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:47:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Acktions

I change my status to voting.
If I am on the CFJ Ineligibility list, I remove myself.

Fortunato
(Aunt Froot? :))

- ------------------
Aaron Keesler
Lotus Notes Administrator
Intranet Administrator
Adtran, Inc.
- ------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:53:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Ballot Stuffing

I play my Otzma card Founder's Boon to make myself the founder of the Church
to the Evil Ballot Stuffer.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: A new voice in politics

Studge wrote:
:I announce my intent to form an organization which is a political party
:with the name "Giant Objectionable Potato" it may also be referred to as
:the GOP.
:
:It has standard admission policies as per Rule 007 Admissions Policies
:("the organization may accept new members as an organizational action.")
:
:If you want to join, reply with the phrase "I too appreciate the  potatoes
:of yore."
:
:Studge, pseudo-Founder of the GOP.

I remember, decades ago, before there were goats filling the skies every
evening, sitting around the yawning chasm, drinking vodka (Oh, Essence of
Potato!) and sharing stories of Chips, Fries, and Skins. Next, as ritual
demanded, we would all strip off our clothes, point at the bulgy parts of
each other's bodies, and dance in an extreme circular manner, whirling and
whirling until we could no longer remember our own names. Exhausted, all
would form a greasy pile, like naked mole rats in spring under a heat lamp,
and languidly suck starch until the fiery dawn.

I too appreciate the potatoes of yore.

Piz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: A new voice in politics

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:

:
:I remember, decades ago, before there were goats filling the skies every
<nip snip>

you people scare me sometimes.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:04:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka: Fire

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:
>Weishaupt wrote:
>:sorry bout forgetting the "Acka".
>:
>:Piz: can i have the treasure now?
>
>Da. Oui. You betcha.

Umm. Piz, he wasn't on fire when he attempted this.

I did this a little while after he did, and I *was* on fire (having set
myself that way a short time previous :)

Also, you need to post explicitly saying that he found the treasure and
what the map was, even if the map is already publically known :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: In Valen's Name!

  Why the negative vote on the Book of Valen?

  If 	 can get sime  resons then I will probabl resubmit.  

  Wild Card.

 (D*mn slow connections!)

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing a Silly Agenda Hat.   \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:13:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: In Valen's Name!

>   Why the negative vote on the Book of Valen?
> 
>   If 	 can get sime  resons then I will probabl resubmit.  
> 
>   Wild Card.

I voted against it because I am tired of the attempts to bring unnatural
disasters upon Ackanomic.  Sheesh, some of you must be the type who build
up a good, full city in Sim City but with minimal fire protection, then hit
the disasters menu and summon all the disasters upon your city all at once!

Also, I thought it was a bit too much of a take-off on the old Codex of Kra.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:34:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Oh, not much

I make a thrall purchase as a public action.

I purchase Studge's Thrall.

Since I am overlord of 0 players, and I want one thrall, I pay 1*1*1*10*the
SHF which is A$250

I post the sine of a googol plex, with proof thereof:

10^(10^100) = 100*10^(10^100-2)=400*2.5*10^(10^100-3).  This is an integer
multiple of 400.  The angle is taken to be measurable in grads.  All
integer multiples of 400 grads have a sine equal to the sine of 400 grads,
which is 0.0000, and is actually definable to be exactly 0, given the angle
of exactly 400.

(Or in degrees:
10^(10^100) = 9*10^(10^99)+10^99 = 9*(10^99)+9*(10^98)+10^98=9*(the sum
from i=3 to 99 of 10^i)+10^3=9000*(the sum from i=0 to 96 of
10^i)+1000=360*25*(the sum from i=0 to 99 of 10^i)+360+360+280.  Now,
adding any integer multiple of 360 degrees to an angle has no effect on its
sine, so the sine of this number is equal to the sine of 280, or is
approximately -.984801)

(Since to approximate to 3 places te sine of a googolplex radians would
require an approximation of pi of over a googol places, and because that is
more atoms than exist in the universe, i submit that for the angle to be
taken in radians is unreasonable)

THEN...

I make visible the following agenda hats:

3. The owner of this hat has been in at least 1 duel and has not lost 
more than 2 duels.
Weight: 30

8. The owner of this hat is the Overlord of the owner of this eggplant.
Weight: 110

13. The owner of this hat has publically posted the sine of a googleplex 
to a precision of at least three significant digits, and accompanied 
said posting with proof that the value posted is, indeed, the sine 
of a googleplex.
Weight: -200

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:40:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> I make a thrall purchase as a public action.
> 
> I purchase Studge's Thrall.
> 
> Since I am overlord of 0 players, and I want one thrall, I pay 1*1*1*10*the
> SHF which is A$250
> 
> I post the sine of a googol plex, with proof thereof:
> 
> 10^(10^100) = 100*10^(10^100-2)=400*2.5*10^(10^100-3).  This is an integer
> multiple of 400.  The angle is taken to be measurable in grads.  All
> integer multiples of 400 grads have a sine equal to the sine of 400 grads,
> which is 0.0000, and is actually definable to be exactly 0, given the angle
> of exactly 400.
> 
> (Or in degrees:
> 10^(10^100) = 9*10^(10^99)+10^99 = 9*(10^99)+9*(10^98)+10^98=9*(the sum
> from i=3 to 99 of 10^i)+10^3=9000*(the sum from i=0 to 96 of
> 10^i)+1000=360*25*(the sum from i=0 to 99 of 10^i)+360+360+280.  Now,
> adding any integer multiple of 360 degrees to an angle has no effect on its
> sine, so the sine of this number is equal to the sine of 280, or is
> approximately -.984801)
> 
> (Since to approximate to 3 places te sine of a googolplex radians would
> require an approximation of pi of over a googol places, and because that is
> more atoms than exist in the universe, i submit that for the angle to be
> taken in radians is unreasonable)

However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
the measurement is in radians.
Just because the hat is unreasonable does not mean you can change what it
means slightly to make it more reasonable.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:44:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 664 (Fo)

Fo has been selected.

Call for Judgement 664 - September 14, 1998
Subject: Null Proposal
Initiator: breadbox (sent Sep 14 1998, 08:52 Acka)
Judge: Fo
Judgement:

Statement:

Proposal 3555 modified the text of Rule 611 ("Le Grand Fromage").

Reasoning:

Proposal 3555 states, in part:

> After the following text as delimited by GOUDA
> GOUDA
> [...]
> GOUDA
> insert the following text as delimited by BRIE
> BRIE
> [...]
> BRIE

The proposal does not state that it is Rule 611 in particular that is
to be modified; indeed, the proposal does not mention the rules at
all.

Game custom would dictate that Proposal 3555 amends itself. (Indeed,
when taken out of context, the above quote seems to demand its own
modification.) However, since that time Rule 104 has been changed to
forbid the altering of proposals. Thus, this game custom may no longer
be as appropriate as it once was. I leave this determination up to a
judge.

If it is, I note that Proposal 3555 is a Null Proposal.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:46:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 655 (JT)

two-star has gone deadbeat.
JT has been selected.

Call for Judgement 655 - September 4, 1998
Subject: Voting Eligibility
Initiator: breadbox (sent Sep 4 1998, 12:02 Acka)
1st Judge: Rig R. Mortis (chosen Sep 4 1998, 12:29 Acka) (declined)
2nd Judge: two-star (chosen Sep 7 1998, 08:06 Acka) (deadbeat)
3rd Judge: JT
Judgement:

Statement:

breadbox is eligible to vote on proposals.

Reasoning:

If my other CFJ is ruled False, then this CFJ must almost certainly be
True. So, assuming the truth of the statement "There is no Current
Government of Ackanomia", where does that leave me?

Rule 106 only states how the players that are eligible to vote on
proposals may do so. (Though note that Voting Players are specifically
permitted to abstain.) And who is eligible to vote? It is nowhere
specified in the rules. Rule 320 specifies no provisions for the
situation when there is no Current Government and Anarchy is not an
existing Government Type.

The fact that I was eligible to vote before Proposal 3495 was adopted
doesn't help. Suffrage is not an entity; it is not guaranteed to
continue existing when the rules that granted it are removed.

Nor can we fall back on "permissibility of the unprohibited", since
the right to vote is clearly still regulated by Rule 106.

The only conclusion I can come to is that no players have been granted
the ability to vote on proposals at this time.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:47:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 665 (Robert Sevin)

Robert Sevin has been selected.

Call for Judgement 665 - September 14, 1998
Subject: Weishaupt Agenda CWCFJ
Initiator: Weishaupt (sent 14 Sep 1998, 12:40 Acka)
Judge: Robert Sevin
Judgement:

Statement:  
Weishaupt has achieved a winning condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning: 
Weishaupt has three true, visible, agenda hats, with a net weight less than
his point score.

3. The owner of this hat has been in at least 1 duel and has not lost 
more than 2 duels.
Weight: 30

I have been in one duel, which i won

8. The owner of this hat is the Overlord of the owner of this eggplant.
Weight: 110

Studge owns this eggplant. I am the Overlord of Studge

13. The owner of this hat has publically posted the sine of a googleplex 
to a precision of at least three significant digits, and accompanied 
said posting with proof that the value posted is, indeed, the sine 
of a googleplex.
Weight: -200

I did so earlier today.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:53:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

>However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
>measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
>the measurement is in radians.
>Just because the hat is unreasonable does not mean you can change what it
>means slightly to make it more reasonable.

I disagree, (i don't have time to write out a detailed argument right now,
i will later if need be) and for now only want to point out that Fo has the
eggplant associated with this hat, making him the one who bid low on it
because he assumed it was radians and him the one who has something to lose.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:03:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Harf

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, I am the Water Boatman wrote:

> >> 3570 (Insane Emperor)
> >
> >Unfortunately, only the first two of these succeed, because I had already
> >declared 3549 Harfy, and it is still under voting consideration.
> 
> Shame, but I'm just wondering whether or not I should retract the proposal
> anyway, because I fear if we ever had a government type Insane Emperor it would
> break the game. On the other hand, since the proposal wouldn't have any
> *immediate* game efect if accepted, maybe it can be tweaked by a subsequent
> proposal to stop the game-breaking aspects of it.
> 
> Ethelred
> 

Under less than game-breaking circumstances, I would say sure, let it
ride.  As it stands, however, I'd rather see a retraction.  Not that I
really think it will pass (famous last words....)

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Acka: speaking of thralls and agenda hats...

If I ever offered to trade castes with Mr. Tambourine Man, and
if that offer is still extant, I rescind it.

I pay A$250 to purchase Alfvaen's thrall.

I wear Hat 16:

It is publicly knowable that the Agenda Hat known as Firsty to plain
folks became true in the last week while at the same time this hat, known
as Clown-Like to plain folks, was publicly known to be worn.

I then wear Hat 15:

It is publicly knowable that this hat, known as Firsty to plain folks,
is being worn while Alfvaen is in Thrall to a member of the Religious Caste.

Hat 15 becomes TRUE upon my wearing it, as I am a member of the Religious
Caste and am Alfvaen's Overlord.  This causes Hat 16 to become TRUE.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:11:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

>>However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
>>measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
>>the measurement is in radians.
>>Just because the hat is unreasonable does not mean you can change what it
>>means slightly to make it more reasonable.
>
>I disagree, (i don't have time to write out a detailed argument right now,
>i will later if need be) and for now only want to point out that Fo has the
>eggplant associated with this hat, making him the one who bid low on it
>because he assumed it was radians and him the one who has something to lose.

Despite the fact that legislative intent is supposedly nonexistent in Acka,
I find it to be not entirely irrelevent to note that I, as the author
of the hat, was thinking in radians as well when writing it.  What would
be the point otherwise?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:12:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

N:However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
:measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
:the measurement is in radians.  

Slakko is actually less general than he could be here.  Radians are
unitless, degrees and gradians are not.  It doesn't make any sense to
refer to trig functions of numbers as anything else.  If you don't like
it, change the rules.  Don't bitch that sllakko has the eggplant.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

Duncan Richer wrote:

> However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
> measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
> the measurement is in radians.
> Just because the hat is unreasonable does not mean you can change what it
> means slightly to make it more reasonable.

Please. If someone were to ask you what the sine of 360 was would you be more
likely to say "0" or, "just hang on a minute whilst I go and get my calculator to
work out how many times pi goes into 360"? If you were to say 0 then I doubt
anyone else would blink an eye.

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:50:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka: Fire

JT wrote:
:On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:
:>Weishaupt wrote:
:>:sorry bout forgetting the "Acka".
:>:
:>:Piz: can i have the treasure now?
:>
:>Da. Oui. You betcha.
:
:Umm. Piz, he wasn't on fire when he attempted this.

I thought he was. Oops. The Twits have A$1 donated to them by me.

:I did this a little while after he did, and I *was* on fire (having set
:myself that way a short time previous :)
:
:Also, you need to post explicitly saying that he found the treasure and
:what the map was, even if the map is already publically known :)

OK, OK (legalistic bastards ;-):

[read the following in a sarcastic, sing-song voice while rolling yer eyes
and tossing yer head from side to side] If I am in fact the one who is
supposed to announce this, then I announce that JT has found Treasure 232,
consisting of the trinket Band-Aid (A$1, "Oo, that'll leave a mark.") whose
map was "This treasure will be found by the first player to extinguish a
fire by application of a rule which specifically allows a fire to be
extinguished."

Piz (grumbl, grumbl...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:00:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Stuff

JT wrote:
:>I would like to change my name to "Aunt Froot".
:
:It seems to me as if people are changing names much more often than normal
:recently.  I'm at a loss for why.
:
:Aside from the fact that the above name is an anagram for fortunato, I
:see no reason to deny it.
:
:Therefore, I ack that name change.

Doesn't it fail? He didn't actually change his name, just said he would like
to.

Piz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Stuff

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:
>JT wrote:
>:>I would like to change my name to "Aunt Froot".
>:
>:It seems to me as if people are changing names much more often than normal
>:recently.  I'm at a loss for why.
>:
>:Aside from the fact that the above name is an anagram for fortunato, I
>:see no reason to deny it.
>:
>:Therefore, I ack that name change.
>
>Doesn't it fail? He didn't actually change his name, just said he would like
>to.

I read that as 'I change my name pending an ack'.  I believe that everyone
else did so as well.  It's certainly a reasonable interpretation of what
was written.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:15:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

:
:Please. If someone were to ask you what the sine of 360 was would you be more
:likely to say "0" or, "just hang on a minute whilst I go and get my calculator to
:work out how many times pi goes into 360"? If you were to say 0 then I doubt
:anyone else would blink an eye.

I would ask for more information.  Think of it this way:  If I were asked 
how far I drive to work every day, and answer 20.  I have failed to
completely answer the question.  Do I mean 20 miles, kilometers, leagues,
or what?  I have failed to give all requested information.  The units are 
part of the measurement, they can't just be assumed.  

The only way to answer the sin of 360, without further information, is
.956.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 665 (Robert Sevin)

At 12:47 PM 9/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert Sevin has been selected.
>
>Call for Judgement 665 - September 14, 1998

I'd like to decline judgement.

Hey, I've got a question -- is it considered bad game etiquette to rule on
a CFJ completely arbitrarily?

Harf,
Robert Sevin
"When someone says `Society has a desperate need for bug-free software', my
first thought is `Well, the residents of Hell need icewater.  That doesn't
mean they're gonna get it'.  Maybe that's why I'm not in marketing."
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~mitcharf/index.html>
Support the Harf Project: <http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~mitcharf/harfproj.html>
All your questions answered, all your problems solved:
<http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mitch/ask820/ask820.html> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> 
> >However, from a mathematical point of view, an integer is a radian
> >measurement.  The hat only specified an integer, and hence, by default,
> >the measurement is in radians.
> >Just because the hat is unreasonable does not mean you can change what it
> >means slightly to make it more reasonable.
> 
> I disagree, (i don't have time to write out a detailed argument right now,
> i will later if need be) and for now only want to point out that Fo has the
> eggplant associated with this hat, making him the one who bid low on it
> because he assumed it was radians and him the one who has something to lose.

Look.  I have a degree in mathematics.  The sine of a number is actually
the sine of that number in radians.  This is a _mathematical_fact_.
> 

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:54:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 665 (Robert Sevin)

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Mitchell Harding wrote:

> At 12:47 PM 9/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >Robert Sevin has been selected.
> >
> >Call for Judgement 665 - September 14, 1998
> 
> I'd like to decline judgement.
> 
> Hey, I've got a question -- is it considered bad game etiquette to rule on
> a CFJ completely arbitrarily?

As far as I know, yes.  Also, it leaves you open to a 10 point penalty on
appeal if you get overturned.  The only real exception to this was back
when Zuriti'ili was still a Crime on the books, because its CFCJs had no
other way to be determined.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 664 (FALSE)

Fo has judged this FALSE.

Call for Judgement 664 - September 14, 1998
Subject: Null Proposal
Initiator: breadbox (sent Sep 14 1998, 08:52 Acka)
Judge: Fo (chosen Sep 14 1998, 12:44 Acka)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

Proposal 3555 modified the text of Rule 611 ("Le Grand Fromage").

Reasoning:

Proposal 3555 states, in part:

> After the following text as delimited by GOUDA
> GOUDA
> [...]
> GOUDA
> insert the following text as delimited by BRIE
> BRIE
> [...]
> BRIE

The proposal does not state that it is Rule 611 in particular that is
to be modified; indeed, the proposal does not mention the rules at
all.

Game custom would dictate that Proposal 3555 amends itself. (Indeed,
when taken out of context, the above quote seems to demand its own
modification.) However, since that time Rule 104 has been changed to
forbid the altering of proposals. Thus, this game custom may no longer
be as appropriate as it once was. I leave this determination up to a
judge.

If it is, I note that Proposal 3555 is a Null Proposal.

Judge's Reasoning:

This proposal did not make any reference to the rules at all.  It would be
unreasonable to expect it to therefore change the rules.  While the
amendment of Rule 104 means that proposals may not be altered, this does
not mean that we can re-interpret attempts which appear to only alter
proposals.  They simply fail, as this one does.

The statement is FALSE.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:55:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 665 (Ethelred)

Robert Sevin has declined.
Ethelred has been selected.

Call for Judgement 665 - September 14, 1998
Subject: Weishaupt Agenda CWCFJ
Initiator: Weishaupt (sent 14 Sep 1998, 12:40 Acka)
1st Judge: Robert Sevin (selected 14 Sep 1998, 12:47 Acka) (declined)
2nd Judge: Ethelred
Judgement:

Statement:  
Weishaupt has achieved a winning condition during the current cycle.

Reasoning: 
Weishaupt has three true, visible, agenda hats, with a net weight less than
his point score.

3. The owner of this hat has been in at least 1 duel and has not lost 
more than 2 duels.
Weight: 30

I have been in one duel, which i won

8. The owner of this hat is the Overlord of the owner of this eggplant.
Weight: 110

Studge owns this eggplant. I am the Overlord of Studge

13. The owner of this hat has publically posted the sine of a googleplex 
to a precision of at least three significant digits, and accompanied 
said posting with proof that the value posted is, indeed, the sine 
of a googleplex.
Weight: -200

I did so earlier today.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Thrall

Prop: Player -> Overlord
3549: Weishaupt -> Studge
3550: Rex Mundi -> Fo
3555: Weishaupt -> JT

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

David Scheidt wrote:

> I would ask for more information.  Think of it this way:  If I were asked
> how far I drive to work every day, and answer 20.  I have failed to
> completely answer the question.  Do I mean 20 miles, kilometers, leagues,
> or what?  I have failed to give all requested information.  The units are
> part of the measurement, they can't just be assumed.
>
> The only way to answer the sin of 360, without further information, is
> .956.

I still don't hold with this. If I were to ask someone what time it was and they
replied "twelve" then I would no that they actually meant twelve O'Clock; twelve hours
into the day. I would know this even though I was not explicitly told it. They could
have meant twleve seconds into the day, or twelve minutes to eleven O'Clock. The
reason that I would know it was twelve O'Clock was that the other possibilities simply
don't make sense. Going back to your example of driving to work, maybe we wouldn't
know what unit you meant but we would certainly know that you didn't mean nanometres
or light years since either of those would be absurd. You could not possibly drive
either of those distances. In the same way we don't know what unit is appropriate for
working out the sine of a googleplex but do know for certain that it isn't radians
since trying to work out the sine of a googleplx radians makes no sense.

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:09:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

In a message dated 14/09/98  18:48:22, you write:

> 
>  Look.  I have a degree in mathematics.  The sine of a number is actually
>  the sine of that number in radians.  This is a _mathematical_fact_.
>  > 
>  
True. (And I've got a maths degree too). However in popular use it has other
meanings. Ackanomia does not automatically use the most specialised
definition, as we saw with primes and the rules can override normal usage.
We will have to see how the rules are interpreted, and they may be 
judged to allow a broader meaning.

However if it doesn't refer to radians it is ambiguous, which I believe
disqualifies it as a valid condition, and it may have been ambigous when it 
was written anyway.

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

In a message dated 14/09/98  18:48:22, you write:

> 
>  Look.  I have a degree in mathematics.  The sine of a number is actually
>  the sine of that number in radians.  This is a _mathematical_fact_.
>  > 
>  
True. (And I've got a maths degree too). However in popular use it has other
meanings. Ackanomia does not automatically use the most specialised
definition, as we saw with primes and the rules can override normal usage.
We will have to see how the rules are interpreted, and they may be 
judged to allow a broader meaning.

However if it doesn't refer to radians it is ambiguous, which I believe
disqualifies it as a valid condition, and it may have been ambigous when it 
was written anyway.

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, not much

Duncan Richer wrote:

> Look.  I have a degree in mathematics.  The sine of a number is actually
> the sine of that number in radians.  This is a _mathematical_fact_.

True. However:

1. (As Robin Hood Pointed out) popularly it is more likely to have a different
meaning.
2. Ackan maths is not the same as real life maths. x/0=0 is Acka maths but not
real maths by any stretch of the imagination. I'd be willing to bet that
introducing that into mathematics would create some quite large inconsistencies.
You could know everything in the world about standard mathematics but Acka maths
is liekly completely different, possibly beeing governedonly by convention. If
that is the case then I don't think radians would hold as the most common
convention.

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #318
*******************************