Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #310
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Thursday, September 10 1998     Volume 03 : Number 310

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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:07:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: songs

I'm not sure who the DeeJay is (do we still need to hold an election), or
what to do when songs were supposed to be played, but to remind people...

Rule 950.2
Title: No-one But You (Only the Good Die Young) 
Trigger: Whenever a player is inducted into the hall of elders. 

else...if

Rule 950.4
Title: Ode to Joy; Allegro assai, fr Symphony No. 9 in d, Op. 125, Choral 
Trigger: Whenever a proposal has been accepted which was authored by a
player who had never had a proposal accepted before. 

Studge and Weishaupt have both had this happen, that I know of.

Studge

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:45:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: songs

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Mueller wrote:
>I'm not sure who the DeeJay is (do we still need to hold an election), or
>what to do when songs were supposed to be played, but to remind people...

Actually, Let me quote from the rules :)

>III. Office of DeeJay.
>
>The Office of DeeJay is an Optional, Political Office. If this Office is
>not filled, or if the player holding this Office is absent, no Esoteric
>Songs will be played on the ASS.

I was forced (by the rules) to step down as deejay on the 1st of
September.  Thus the office was unfilled at that time.

By the rules, as Speaker, I was the Supervisory for this office, and so
I am filling it in an acting capacity.

However, 
>a) A player filling an optional office in an acting capacity is not
>required to perform the duties of that office. This sub-section takes
>precedence over section (iv) and R 403.

and thus, I didn't need to announce that the songs were playing (and if
fact got busy enough with real life work that I forgot about it).

You are in fact correct as to the songs you named played/were playing, 
and if you wish, I (as supervisory for the Deejay) will appoint you as
Acting Deejay until such time as a new one is chosen via election. :)

If you agree, just reply, and I will name you Acting Deejay.
Same goes for anyone else :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:53:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: songs

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, JT wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Mueller wrote:
> >I'm not sure who the DeeJay is (do we still need to hold an election), or
> >what to do when songs were supposed to be played, but to remind people...
> 
> Actually, Let me quote from the rules :)
> 
> >III. Office of DeeJay.
> >
> >The Office of DeeJay is an Optional, Political Office. If this Office is
> >not filled, or if the player holding this Office is absent, no Esoteric
> >Songs will be played on the ASS.
> 
> I was forced (by the rules) to step down as deejay on the 1st of
> September.  Thus the office was unfilled at that time.
> 
> By the rules, as Speaker, I was the Supervisory for this office, and so
> I am filling it in an acting capacity.

That would be news to 404 Not Found, who has been Deejay since the 6th.

> You are in fact correct as to the songs you named played/were playing, 
> and if you wish, I (as supervisory for the Deejay) will appoint you as
> Acting Deejay until such time as a new one is chosen via election. :)

Ummm.  No.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:57:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Destroy

I destroy my 2000 non-entities, each of which was identified by a unique
10-digit prime number.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:11:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: songs

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>> By the rules, as Speaker, I was the Supervisory for this office, and so
>> I am filling it in an acting capacity.
>
>That would be news to 404 Not Found, who has been Deejay since the 6th.

Umm.. did I miss this somehow.

Culpa mea and thank you Slakko.

>Ummm.  No.

Right.. I donate A$1 to the twits and go to bed.

- --JT, obviously needing more sleep.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 05:39:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

Niccolo Flychuck:

>The objection I have to this is not the one stated by the proposerm but
>rather that it would potentially break existing rules, and Rule Suites,
>which depend in part on precedence.

But under the current system, if there is a conflict and no claim of
precedence then the later of the two conflicting rules is permanently "broken"
because it is never able to have the desired effect, because it can never claim
precedence. At least with the method I've suggested in my proposal, there's a
chance of the two conflicting rules to take it in turns to be the broken one.
That sounds much fairer to me.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Nothing Important

Congratulations, JT :)

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Tom Walmsley [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 4:34 PM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Acka: Nothing Important
>
>JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
>notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
>trinket by P2367. Well done JT.
>
>MTM, custodian.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:59:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: It's a root vegetable, you know

JT wrote:
:On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:
:>I bury a Treasure consisting of the Magic Potato and A$3, with the
following
:>map, delimited by SPUDS:
:>
:>SPUDS
:>This Treasure shall be found by the first player to publicly post a
:>palindrome that includes the word "potato" and is a sentence with a
:>reasonable meaning (as opposed to a random group of words selected merely
to
:>form a palindrome). For purposes of this Treasure map, "reasonable
meaning"
:>shall be determined by the player known at the time of the burial of this
:>Treasure as "Piz."
:>SPUDS
:
:I don't believe this works since the Potato is Non-Tradeable, and by
:the rules of Treasure Burial you can only bury tradeable entities.
:
:Nice try though Piz :)

Thanks, but the way I interpret Rule 1217 Treasures must contain *but are
not limited to* tradable entities. I could be full of harf on this one, but
there it is. CFJ to follow. :-)

Piz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:27:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: It's a root vegetable, you know

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:

> JT wrote:
> :I don't believe this works since the Potato is Non-Tradeable, and by
> :the rules of Treasure Burial you can only bury tradeable entities.
> :
> :Nice try though Piz :)
> 
> Thanks, but the way I interpret Rule 1217 Treasures must contain *but are
> not limited to* tradable entities. I could be full of harf on this one, but
> there it is. CFJ to follow. :-)

Not that it would matter anyway, because next Monday the Magic Potato
would still get distributed to another player at random, regardless of
whether or not it was buried.
- -- 
Duncan C. "although I doubt game custom supports your argument" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Clerk of the Court

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:45:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

Ethelred wrote:
> But under the current system, if there is a conflict and no claim of
> precedence then the later of the two conflicting rules is permanently
> "broken" because it is never able to have the desired effect, because
> it can never claim precedence.

It's only broken until somebody amends it to claim the precedence it needs.

If you see some specific higher-numbered rule that doesn't work because it
needs precedence, fix it.  If you are worried about the Whamiol trade
restriction, that's a special case because the head of the Blueprints
rule suite says all the Blueprints defer to other rules, and it is
*supposed* to be a restriction on Blueprints -- though they can still
get precedence over higher-numbered rules by claiming it and thus
conflicting with the head of the rule suite, causing the numerical
method to take effect.  I considered moving that precedence statement into
Rule 102 somehow, but I decided that was too complicated and not necessary
when I could do what was needed merely by amending the precedence statement
in the head of the rule suite.

If you look around, you will see that many, many rules are written with
the assumption of the precedence system we have now, and/or that they'll
have the precedence they currently have with respect to the rules they
conflict with.

If you're trying some scam based on this, go find some other scam that is
less destructive to the infrastructure of Ackanomic.  Making severe
alterations in that precedence rule is the surest way to make all the
scaremonger's wildest dreams come true.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:54:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: It's a root vegetable, you know

Piz wrote:
> Thanks, but the way I interpret Rule 1217 Treasures must contain *but are
> not limited to* tradable entities. I could be full of harf on this one, but
> there it is. CFJ to follow. :-)

I don't see how he could possibly have gotten that out of "Burying Treasure
is a public action. In order to fully specify this action, the player
attempting it must state which one or more of his tradeable entities
collectively constitute the Treasure."  One or more of his tradeable
entities, not one of his tradeable entities and some other entities.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

JT wrote:

> I offer the Codex of Jara to ThinMan.

I gratefully accept.  My congratulations to JT and /dev/joe.

I create a trinket, valued at A$ 10, named "Badge of Fiendishness".
Description:
It is a small badge in the shape of six interlocking Mobius strips.
The strips are made of yellow gold, white gold, red gold, platinum,
iron pyrite, and tin, and are bent and distorted soas to give the
overall badge the shape of a 23-pointed star.

I give the Badge of Fiendishness to Saaremaa.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

/dev/joe:

>If you see some specific higher-numbered rule that doesn't work because it
>needs precedence, fix it.

...but then the lower-numbered rule no longer takes precedence, and you've just
got the same situation but in reverse. Seems daft to me.

>If you are worried about the Whamiol trade
>restriction,

I didn't have any specific examples in mind, nor (heaven forbid) any scams, I
just felt (and really it's not much more than a feeling) there's somthing a bit
funny about the way the current system for resolving conflicts works.

> that's a special case because the head of the Blueprints
>rule suite says all the Blueprints defer to other rules, and it is
>*supposed* to be a restriction on Blueprints

I believe I kept the clause in the rule about specified methods for resolving
rule conflicts, which means this  would be unaffected by my proposal, as would
all other instances where rules specify precedence.

>If you look around, you will see that many, many rules are written with
>the assumption of the precedence system we have now, and/or that they'll
>have the precedence they currently have with respect to the rules they
>conflict with.

Now that sounds like a very reasonable objection to me. If it's true, then I
shall retract the proposal, though it seems like it's not going to get accepted
anyway, but I'll need to see some examples before I can accept it as true.

>If you're trying some scam based on this, go find some other scam that is
>less destructive to the infrastructure of Ackanomic.

No scam, and I certainly hope it wouldn't be as destructive as you seem to
think.

Ethelred.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:42:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

Ethelred wrote:

>Niccolo Flychuck:
>
>>The objection I have to this is not the one stated by the proposerm but
>>rather that it would potentially break existing rules, and Rule Suites,
>>which depend in part on precedence.
>
>But under the current system, if there is a conflict and no claim of
>precedence then the later of the two conflicting rules is permanently "broken"
>because it is never able to have the desired effect, because it can never claim
>precedence. At least with the method I've suggested in my proposal, there's a
>chance of the two conflicting rules to take it in turns to be the broken one.
>That sounds much fairer to me.

Niccolo and I have butted heads in the past, but I'm thoroughly behind him
on this one.  Even if we want to change precedence, and can identify all of
the many modifications that would be required, I consider it essential that
the new method be deterministic ratehr than random.  Rule conflicts are
sufficiently pervasive that it would be an extremely difficult and complex
task to do all of the required random determinations, if this task were
even possible at all.

To add to the confusion, the proposal as worded does not adequately
describe when the random precedence is to be determined.  For instance,
if there is a conflict related to which players are eligible to vote on
proposals, then is the random determination performed per each vote?
Per each proposal?  Per each batch of proposals?  And what if two rules
are in perpetual conflict?  Is the random determination done once for
all?  Is it done continuously (if that were possible)?  Indeed, one
rather reasonable interpretation of the rules in general is that _all_
rule conflicts are perpetual, even if they apply to situations which
only occur periodically.

The random precedence proposal would surely produce a crash to rival
Rishonomic's yellow crisis.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:00:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (I am the Water Boatman)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

>Rule conflicts are
>sufficiently pervasive that it would be an extremely difficult and complex
>task to do all of the required random determinations, if this task were
>even possible at all.

Maybe you're right. There seem to be a few valid objections. I suppose I
probably should have RFCed it first.

I retract Proposal 3571 and donate A$5 to the Twits.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

Ethelred wrote:
> /dev/joe [wrote]:
> >If you see some specific higher-numbered rule that doesn't work because it
> >needs precedence, fix it.

> ...but then the lower-numbered rule no longer takes precedence, and you've
> just got the same situation but in reverse. Seems daft to me.

You seem truly confused here.  Either the higher-numbered rule is a valid
exception to the lower-numbered rule, and thus deserves to have a clause
giving it precedence, or it is not a valid exception, and the lower-numbered
rule should maintain the precedence that is the default.  [I realize that
sometimes it is the lower-numbered rule that is the exception, but a similar
argument is valid in that situation.]

> >If you look around, you will see that many, many rules are written with
> >the assumption of the precedence system we have now, and/or that they'll
> >have the precedence they currently have with respect to the rules they
> >conflict with.
> 
> Now that sounds like a very reasonable objection to me. If it's true, then
> I shall retract the proposal, though it seems like it's not going to get
> accepted anyway, but I'll need to see some examples before I can accept it
> as true.

Rule 103, the ban on retroactive effects, takes global precedence, so that
even if another rule claims precedence, it wins the precedence war by R102
(unless it is a lower-numbered rule claiming precedence), except it doesn't
claim precedence when another rule explicitly claims precedence over R103,
mentioning it by name and number.  This allows those few rare instances
where we want to allow retroactive effects to do so, but only by being very
obvious about it (and not just by claiming universal precedence).  Ethelred's
system would allow the universal precedence rules to have precedence over
R103 half the time.

An example of the passive precedence case is in R348, where "An attempt to
do anything that requires a name to be chosen [such as creating a Trinket
or Organization] fails if the chosen name matches a name already in use"
without claiming precedence, so it only applies to actions defined in
higher numbered rules that don't claim precedence.

I would write more, but I have to go now.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 158

Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> Add the following to the literature list:
>
> Artist: Jorge Luis Borges
> Artist: Isaac Newton
> Artist: Thomas Jefferson
> Artist: Thomas Paine
> Artist: Ezra Pound
> Artist: Werner Heisenberg
> Artist: Niels Bohr
> Artist: Goethe ; Author of Faust
> Artist: Talking Heads
> Artist: Piers Anthony
> Artist: Dylan Thomas
> Artist: Bob Dylan
> Artist: James Michener
> Artist: Mel Brooks
> Artist: The Marx Brothers
> Artist: Karl Marx
> Artist: Mao Tse-Tung
> Artist: Sinclair Lewis
> Artist: Lewis Carroll
> Artist: Fidel Castro
> Artist: Ian Fleming
> Artist: Adam Smith

I object to this CSR on the grounds that some of the artists are already
there.

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Bollinger wrote:
>JT wrote:
>
>> I offer the Codex of Jara to ThinMan.
>
>I gratefully accept.  My congratulations to JT and /dev/joe.
>
>I create a trinket, valued at A$ 10, named "Badge of Fiendishness".
>Description:
>It is a small badge in the shape of six interlocking Mobius strips.
>The strips are made of yellow gold, white gold, red gold, platinum,
>iron pyrite, and tin, and are bent and distorted soas to give the
>overall badge the shape of a 23-pointed star.

The creation works.

>I give the Badge of Fiendishness to Saaremaa.

This does not work as players who are On Ice may not gain entities.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:40:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ping

Today is Thursday, the 10th day of September, and the Machine That Goes
*ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
gone *ping* 3 times.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:54:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 159

>> Add the following to the literature list:
>>
>> Artist: Isaac Newton
>> Artist: Thomas Jefferson
>> Artist: Thomas Paine
>> Artist: Ezra Pound
>> Artist: Werner Heisenberg
>> Artist: Niels Bohr
>> Artist: Goethe ; Author of Faust
>> Artist: Talking Heads
>> Artist: Piers Anthony
>> Artist: Dylan Thomas
>> Artist: Mel Brooks
>> Artist: The Marx Brothers
>> Artist: Mao Tse-Tung
>> Artist: Sinclair Lewis
>> Artist: Lewis Carroll
>> Artist: Ian Fleming
>> Artist: Adam Smith

There.  I took off dylan and marx who are already on the lit-list, as well
as castro, michener, and borges.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:58:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 159

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
>>> Artist: Isaac Newton
>>> Artist: Thomas Jefferson
>>> Artist: Thomas Paine
>>> Artist: Ezra Pound
>>> Artist: Werner Heisenberg
>>> Artist: Niels Bohr
>>> Artist: Goethe ; Author of Faust
>>> Artist: Talking Heads
>>> Artist: Piers Anthony
>>> Artist: Dylan Thomas
>>> Artist: Mel Brooks
>>> Artist: The Marx Brothers
>>> Artist: Mao Tse-Tung
>>> Artist: Sinclair Lewis
>>> Artist: Lewis Carroll
>>> Artist: Ian Fleming
>>> Artist: Adam Smith

Just to be ornery, I'm going to object to this because of Piers Anthony.
The guy writes too much drivel and I don't want to see it quoted as
literature :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:43:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 159

On the off chance that this is a valid CSR and not the same CSR as the one
to which I have already objected:

I object to this CSR.

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> >> Add the following to the literature list:
> >>
> >> Artist: Isaac Newton
> >> Artist: Thomas Jefferson
> >> Artist: Thomas Paine
> >> Artist: Ezra Pound
> >> Artist: Werner Heisenberg
> >> Artist: Niels Bohr
> >> Artist: Goethe ; Author of Faust
> >> Artist: Talking Heads
> >> Artist: Piers Anthony
> >> Artist: Dylan Thomas
> >> Artist: Mel Brooks
> >> Artist: The Marx Brothers
> >> Artist: Mao Tse-Tung
> >> Artist: Sinclair Lewis
> >> Artist: Lewis Carroll
> >> Artist: Ian Fleming
> >> Artist: Adam Smith
> 
> There.  I took off dylan and marx who are already on the lit-list, as well
> as castro, michener, and borges.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lestas... Guillermo Lestas" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Casting away (Memo)

I really apreciate the honor of becoming a noble warrior. Thanks to
Alfvean my mentor for being
kind with me -even if I became deathbeat.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Head Apollo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: where's the monkey?

I create a trinket worth A$200, named "Clockwork Violin" with the following
double quote delimited description: "A very valuable gift. Often accompianed
by a simian."

I give the Clockwork Violin to Rex Mundi.

I request membership in the Moral Kiosk.

I go to my home.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:25:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 159

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, JT wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
> >>> Artist: Isaac Newton
> >>> Artist: Thomas Jefferson
> >>> Artist: Thomas Paine
> >>> Artist: Ezra Pound
> >>> Artist: Werner Heisenberg
> >>> Artist: Niels Bohr
> >>> Artist: Goethe ; Author of Faust
> >>> Artist: Talking Heads
> >>> Artist: Piers Anthony
> >>> Artist: Dylan Thomas
> >>> Artist: Mel Brooks
> >>> Artist: The Marx Brothers
> >>> Artist: Mao Tse-Tung
> >>> Artist: Sinclair Lewis
> >>> Artist: Lewis Carroll
> >>> Artist: Ian Fleming
> >>> Artist: Adam Smith
> 
> Just to be ornery, I'm going to object to this because of Piers Anthony.
> The guy writes too much drivel and I don't want to see it quoted as
> literature :)
> 
> --JT
> 

Well, I was gonna be nice and not say anything.  But I really hate Piers
Anthony. He was one of my favorite authors back in my junior high days,
and I'll admit some of his books are pretty neat.  But it was all ruined
for me when I decided to write a big English paper on his works, and I
went and read some of his (much) more adult stories, like "Bio of a Space
Tyrant."

So anyway, I object to this CSR too.

As long as I'm here, I may as well chip in my opinion on this whole CSRing
the Literature list idea.  As I recall, the justification for letting
anyone who wants to make a CSR to alter the Literature list was because a
lot of people were submitting proposals to add just one or two items to
the list.  It was getting kind of spamy, and people also didn't think they
were worth the points, and a CSR seemd like a good way to deal with it.

Nowadays, the CSRs rarely seem to be used for their original purpose of
adding a name or two to the list.  They're all massive lists of any author
someone thinks they might ever want to quote.  Those kinds of changes are
more appropriate to a proposal, I say.

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:47:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 159

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> Nowadays, the CSRs rarely seem to be used for their original purpose of
> adding a name or two to the list.  They're all massive lists of any author
> someone thinks they might ever want to quote.  Those kinds of changes are
> more appropriate to a proposal, I say.
> 

What, are you grumpy, too? :-)

IB

> Vynd
> 
> [email-masked]
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:09:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 160

The following FOREIGN delimited text is CSR 160

FOREIGN
Amend the literature list by replacing "Nabakov" with "Nabokov"

Remove each of the following lines from the literature list:

Artist: Aeschylus ; Greek Playwright
Artist: Aristotle
Artist: Confucius
Artist: Descartes
Artist: Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Artist: Karl Marx
Artist: Leo Tolstoy
Artist: Plato
Artist: Sophocles
Artist: Sigmund Freud
Work: The Aeneid
Work: The Art of War ; by Sun-Tzu
Work: The Bible, Old and New Testaments
Work: The Prince ; by Machiavelli
Artist: Albert Einstein
Artist: Chaucer
Artist: Boris Pasternak
Artist: Dante Alighieri ; you know, The Inferno guy
Work: the Magna Carta
Artist: Friedrich Nietzsche
Work: The Decameron ; by Boccacio
Artist: Hermann Hesse
Artist: Jean-Paul Sartre
FOREIGN

These are all in languages other than English and so are little use as
literature (with apologies to those for whom English is not their first
language). (Okay, so Chaucer and the Magna Carta are English but not
modern English so I doubt anyone would understand them.) If someone
wants to introduce a specific translation of any of these as literature
then I would not (in most cases) be averse to this. Thanks to /dev/joe
who helped me pick up the last few of these.

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:15:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: songs

> > >The Office of DeeJay is an Optional, Political Office. If this Office is
> > >not filled, or if the player holding this Office is absent, no Esoteric
> > >Songs will be played on the ASS.

> That would be news to 404 Not Found, who has been Deejay since the 6th.

It is news to me, as going back through to make sure, I was never /clearly/ 
declared to hold the office of DeeJay but I guess I am then unless someone 
objects to it.  I will get started on the duties of my office immediately.

404 Not Found
Mix-Master

- ---
Imperial Emporer and Moderator of the Fantasy Wargame Design Project
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/1047/fw_index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Rafting

The following team wishes to go rafting:

rufus
Mr. Tambourine Man
JT
Alfvaen

Here's hoping we can get some sort of luck virus and it will suceed :-)

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 160

At 06:09 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>The following FOREIGN delimited text is CSR 160
>
>FOREIGN
>Amend the literature list by replacing "Nabakov" with "Nabokov"
>
>Remove each of the following lines from the literature list:
>
>Artist: Aeschylus ; Greek Playwright
>Artist: Aristotle
>Artist: Confucius
>Artist: Descartes
>Artist: Fyodor Dostoyevsky
>Artist: Karl Marx
>Artist: Leo Tolstoy
>Artist: Plato
>Artist: Sophocles
>Artist: Sigmund Freud
>Work: The Aeneid
>Work: The Art of War ; by Sun-Tzu
>Work: The Bible, Old and New Testaments
>Work: The Prince ; by Machiavelli
>Artist: Albert Einstein
>Artist: Chaucer
>Artist: Boris Pasternak
>Artist: Dante Alighieri ; you know, The Inferno guy
>Work: the Magna Carta
>Artist: Friedrich Nietzsche
>Work: The Decameron ; by Boccacio
>Artist: Hermann Hesse
>Artist: Jean-Paul Sartre
>FOREIGN

I object.  Although i agree with most of this, I have serious reservations
about removing these artists/works without replacing them with applicable
translations.  Furthermore, there are some entries here for which no one
*definitive* translation exists.  Rather than taking this as an indication
that they be removed from the list, I think this means that all reasonable
translations (and this is not weasel-ish; it's easy to challenge) should be
allowed.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:15:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Wierd Name Change

I change my name to my fault.

Yours,
Slakko
soon to be my fault
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:28:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Wierd Name Change

At 07:15 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I change my name to my fault.
>
>Yours,
>Slakko
>soon to be my fault

hello, scam... I mean, it doesn't work, but still.  I hope you don't ack
this, JT.  it's just a little fishy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:47:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Wierd Name Change

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>I change my name to my fault.

I object to this name change as it seems a blatant attempt to grab any
trinkets created by the Sponsorship rule, and while I don't think it would
work (the trinkets are not player created), I'm going to reject it anyway.

- --JT, Registrar

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:51:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: stuff

I bury Principia Discordia (A$100), Never Whistle While You're Pissing
(A$20) and Atlantean Statue (A$300) in the same hole as the Intiate of the
modified Rose (A$150) and the Sacred Chao (A$200).  I continue to disclose
no part of the map.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:15:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Mapping around

I play the OC Map Shard I own and name Alfvaen and Treasure 169

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Return

I give all trinkets I own whose names contain the string
"Malenkai's Gold Coin" to JT.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:57:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 160

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> 
> The following FOREIGN delimited text is CSR 160
> 
> FOREIGN
> Amend the literature list by replacing "Nabakov" with "Nabokov"
> 
> Remove each of the following lines from the literature list:
> 
<snipity snip>

I object to this CSR for much the same reasons as Weisphaut did.  Also,
isn't it inconsistent?  I mean, surely Nabokov published things in
Russian?

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:57:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: stuff

> I bury Principia Discordia (A$100), Never Whistle While You're Pissing
> (A$20) and Atlantean Statue (A$300) in the same hole as the Intiate of the
> modified Rose (A$150) and the Sacred Chao (A$200).  I continue to disclose
> no part of the map.

Technically I believe this is not possible, but in the past people have
buried "auxiliary treasures" with maps like "This treasure shall be
found by the player who finds treasure with the Sacred Chao in it".

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Johnny Hates Jazz:Turn Back The Clock
Current Book--John M. Ford:Web of Angels
I've got a match--your embrace and my collapse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:59:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Wierd Name Change

> I object to this name change as it seems a blatant attempt to grab any
> trinkets created by the Sponsorship rule, and while I don't think it would
> work (the trinkets are not player created), I'm going to reject it anyway.

I note of a sudden that nothing prohibits a new player from choosing a name
which exploits Malenkai's loophole.  Just most of them don't.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Johnny Hates Jazz:Turn Back The Clock
Current Book--John M. Ford:Web of Angels
I figured it was too sick to eat his words then!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Wierd Name Change

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>> I object to this name change as it seems a blatant attempt to grab any
>> trinkets created by the Sponsorship rule, and while I don't think it would
>> work (the trinkets are not player created), I'm going to reject it anyway.
>
>I note of a sudden that nothing prohibits a new player from choosing a name
>which exploits Malenkai's loophole.  Just most of them don't.  :-)

Heh.. maybe the registrar should be able to reject that, eh?
You propose it?

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Agendas & Complications

No, it appears things were as bad as I feared.  Because it seems that
while I have fixed it so that if there are more Nemesis Eggplants than
can be distributed among the bidders, then the extra Eggplants will go
elsewhere...

...but this leaves the value of "winning bid" undefined, and so the
corresponding Agenda Hat cannot get a weight, and so it cannot exist.

Anyway, here are the results of the bidding:

A: Attila the Pun
J: JT
K: K 2
S: Slakko
U: Studge
V: Vynd
W: Weishaupt

1: -100(V), 0(K), 50(J), 100(S), 100(U), 126(A), 126(W)
2: -88(A), 0(K), 1(S), 10(J), 50(V), 100(U), 126(W)
3: -252(V), 0(K), 30(J), 80(S), 97(A), 101(U), 126(W)
4: -252(V), -20(J), -12(A), 0(K), 100(S), 101(U), 126(W)
5: 0(K), 0(V), 30(J), 100(U), 102(A), 126(S), 126(W)
6: -100(W), 0(K), 0(V), 40(J), 102(U), 125(A), 126(S)
7: -252(W), -18(A), 0(J), 0(K), 1(J), 3(S), 100(U)
8: -10(J), 0(K), 100(U), 110(A), 126(S), 126(V), 126(W)
9: 0(J), 0(K), 25(V), 40(S), 86(A), 100(U), 126(W)
10: -20(S), -10(J), 0(A), 0(K), 0(V), 100(U), 126(W)
11: -10(J), -2(A), 0(K), 0(V), 100(U), 126(S), 126(W)
12: -50(V), -38(A), 0(K), 5(J), 70(S), 125(U), 126(W)
13: -252(S), -252(V), -200(A), 0(K), 100(U), 126(J), 126(W)
14: -252(S), -252(V), -100(W), 0(K), 2(A), 100(U), 126(W)
15: 0(K), 0(W), 5(J), 100(U), 126(A), 126(S), 126(V)
16: -200(W), 0(K), 0(V), 5(J), 82(S), 100(A), 100(U)
17: -252(S), -252(V), -200(W), 0(K), 10(J), 100(U), 126(A)

Eggplants:

A--C9, 2, 12
J--C26, 4, 10
K--1, 3, 11
S--13, 14, 17
U--8, 9, 15
V--C17, C24, D16
W--6, 7, 16

Wild Card--5

That Nemesis Eggplant for condition 5 is the one with no corresponding
hat.  Proposal on the way shortly.

And here are the conditions again, with their weights(those that have
them...).  I still have to figure out who gets which Hats...

else...if:

1. The wearer of this hat has more fleas than a barrel full of
monkeys, and both fleas and barrels full of monkeys are defined by the
rules.

Weight: 50

TJ:

2. The owner of this hat has more than 10 honour.

Weight: 0

3. The owner of this hat has been in at least 1 duel and has not lost
more than 2 duels.

Weight: 30

K 2:

4. Knurd has no meaning within the rules; however, for at least one day
since this hat was created Knurd had meaning within the rules.

Weight: -12

5. It either a crime or impermissible to wear six identical garments.

Weight: ???

Vynd:

6. The owner of this hat has owned exactly eleven different agenda hats.

Weight: 0

7. This agenda hat has a weight of 3.

Weight: -18

Slakko:

8. The owner of this hat is the Overlord of the owner of this eggplant.

Weight: 110

Weishaupt:

9. At least three active players have names whose letters are in alphabetical
order.

Weight: 126

10. The wearer of this hat is wearing another hat with this condition.

Weight: 0

11. The wearer of this hat is wearing another hat with this condition.

Weight: 100

Attila the Pun:

12. The owner of this hat and the owner of the hat whose number is five
higher than this one are members of the same Caste.

Weight: 0

13. The owner of this hat has publically posted the sine of a googleplex
to a precision of at least three significant digits, and accompanied
said posting with proof that the value posted is, indeed, the sine
of a googleplex.

Weight: -200

14. The phrase "Lo, I am a fish!" appears in at least eight distinct
rules, none of which have prime rule numbers, and at least one of
which has a rule number which is a factor of 9876431250.

Weight: -100

Studge:

15. It is publicly knowable that this hat, known as Firsty to plain folks,
is being worn while Alfvaen is in Thrall to a member of the Religious Caste.

Weight: 126

16. It is publicly knowable that the Agenda Hat known as Firsty to plain
folks became true in the last week while at the same time this hat, known
as Clown-Like to plain folks, was publicly known to be worn.

Weight: 0

17. It is publicly knowable that the Agenda Hat known as Clown-Like to
plain folks became false in the last week while at the same time this hat,
known as Clown-Like to plain folks, was publicly known to be worn.

Weight: -200

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Goldie:Saturnzreturn
Current Book--John M. Ford:Web of Angels
I have nothing to allude to, and I am alluding to it.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #310
*******************************