Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #308
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Wednesday, September 9 1998     Volume 03 : Number 308

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:27:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Presidential Nomination

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Ummm. 
> > K 2's term as President expired on the 28th of August.
> > We could probably do with an election soon....
> 
> Indeed we could, couldn't we?
> 
> *ahem*
> 
> I hereby announce a Nomination for the Office of President. Reply to
> this message to nomination yourself.

Of course, whenever the President needs to be re-elected so do two of the
Senators...
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:32:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 658 (TRUE)

Rig R. Mortis has judged this TRUE. 

Call for Judgement 658 - September 7, 1998
Subject: Nullity 3504
Initiator: breadbox (sent 7 Sep 1998, 18:09 Acka)
Judge: Rig R. Mortis (chosen 8 Sep 1998, 03:29 Acka)
Judgement: TRUE

Statement:

Proposal 3504 is a Null Proposal.

Reasoning:

Proposal 3504 specifies seven items. Let's look at them.

The first two items are as follows:

> To the rule harfer, Please add the following text to the rules as rule
> number 1399:
> ---
> [...]
> ---
> And if you would be so kind as to perform the following changes:
> 
> [...]
> ---

These are not descriptions of effects or one-time changes to the game
state. They are formal requests for another player to do something,
and are thus meaningless as game effects.

Alternately, we might interpret these items as actually saying, "The
Rule Harfer shall add the following text to the rules ... and perform
the following changes ..." It's a bit of a stretch, but if read this
way, they are valid effects, since they cause a player to be required
to perform certain actions. However, I hardly need to point to that no
one player, not even the Rule-Harfer, is permitted to make change the
rules. The Rule-Harfer is permitted to make changes to an official
document that is supposed to reflect the rules. But "[t]he Official
Rules Document is not the Rules."

Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
have:

> An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
> associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.

This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
with a player named Slakko.

> All entities owned by Tammany are transferred into the possession of
> Slakko.
> All offices held by Tammany are instead held by Slakko.
> All titles held by Tammany are given to Slakko.

Tammany owns no entities, and holds no Offices or Titles.

> Repeal Rule 1399.

There is no such rule..

Final summation: Null Proposal.

Judge's Reasoning:

breadbox's above reasoning is enough to yield TRUE on this CFJ.
I also base my judgement on Rule 250 which claims precedence thus
eliminating any conflict between it and Rule 104.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:50:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 154

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> Oh poot! I object to this CSR too. I then issue CSR 155 as delimited by
> AARRGGHH!!
> 
> Create a new rule called "You Moron Walmsley" numbered 321.1111839547 reading
> as follows:
> 
> "{{The current government of Ackanomia is set to Democracy. All votes
> cast by any players since the adoption 3495 are counted. This rule takes
> precedence over rule 103 (Retroactive Effects)}}"
> AARRGGHH!!

What is "adoption 3495"?
It could mean "proposal 3495 was accepted", but that seems a bit of a
stretch, don't you think?

Yours,
Slakko
looking for the loophole in the loophole plugger
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 03:04:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: stuff

I donate the following trinkets to the museum:

Flora Amanita $50 + 30% = worth of $65
Golden Boomerang Statue (Ditto)

I create a trinket worth A$200 called the Sacred Chao with the following
description:

Originally worn by Malaclypse the Younger, the Sacred Chao has the
appearance of a yin-yang sign with the white and black dots replaced with a
pentagon and a golden apple inscribed with the letter K, respectively.  It
has many magic powers, and it is said to be a secret weapon of the ELF
against the Bavarian Illuminati.

I bury it, along with Intiate of the modified Rose ($150) as a treasure
with a map which i will disclose no part of presently.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:21:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Tabula

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> > Actually, I'd already thrown my hat in the ring to breadbox privately.
> > However, if someone else wants the job they can have it - I do have rather
> > a lot on my plate as it is.
> 
> Slakko, you've always had WAY too many jobs :)  That's why I volunteer to 
> take the job..

Time differential sucks. I wanted to volunteer... :(

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:26:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: french-scotsman

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:

> AND YOU KNOW WHAT WAS WORSE!!!!????  YOU KNOW WHAT WAS LIKE THE FREAKIN'
> ICING ON THE GRAVY?!?  I LOSE POINTS BECAUSE OF THIS!!!! I *THOUGHT* THAT
> BECAUSE I WAS A #NEWBIE# I WOULDN'T LOSE ANY POINTS, BUT guess what?
> that's just retractions... but how was _i_ to know that??? i'm just a
> newbie!!! this sucks!!! give me my points! I WANT MY POINTS!!!

Settle down, Beavis. <smack>

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: rafting

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, JT wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >> Lets go rafting!
> >
> >I'm willing.
> 
> I was willing before, and am willing again.

Can I still join? Or does the FRIGGIN TIME DIFFERENTIAL take that away
from me, as well...?

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:57:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3561

I like the bit about it being not the same gadget, but I'll vote against
because of the lower time limit.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 3561
> Labs need a bit more turnover
> TJ (JT Traub)
> 
> In rule 1013, replace the following text as delimited by SLOW
> SLOW
> Each Secret Laboratory may be used to build a Gadget at most once each
> calendar month.
> SLOW
> with the following SLIGHTLY_FASTER delimited text
> SLIGHTLY_FASTER
> Each Secret Laboratory may be used to build a Gadget at most once each
> fortnight, but it cannot be the same type of gadget as either of the
> previous two built by that lab.
> SLIGHTLY_FASTER
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Presidential Nomination

> Of course, whenever the President needs to be re-elected so do two
> of the Senators...

Senatorial Seat Rebus 8-{}, currently held by Calvin N Hobbes, is the
only one that has not had an election within the past 16 weeks, so a
Nomination for that seat now begins. Reply to nominate yourself.

breadbox
*grumble*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:48:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 154

>> Create a new rule called "You Moron Walmsley" numbered
>> 321.1111839547 reading as follows:
>> 
>> "{{The current government of Ackanomia is set to Democracy. All
>> votes cast by any players since the adoption 3495 are counted. This
>> rule takes precedence over rule 103 (Retroactive Effects)}}"
>> AARRGGHH!!
> 
> What is "adoption 3495"?
> It could mean "proposal 3495 was accepted", but that seems a bit of a
> stretch, don't you think?

Not really. "adoption 3495" == "adoption of 3495". I think one would
be hard pressed to come up with a reasonable alternate interpretation.
Not that I approve of shoddily-written rules, mind you, but this sort
of thing is hardly uncommon.

breadbox
underutilized Spelling Exchequer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:09:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Count Tabula

I am now considering replacements for the Office of Count Tabula.
Anyone who would like to be considered should send me email. A number
of players have indicated publicly that they would be interested in
the position; those players (if they are still interested) should send
me email anyway to make sure I haven't overlooked them. (If you wish
to volunteer, but don't really want the job if anyone else is willing
to take it, then indicate such in your email.)

Count Tabula is responsible for various Nominations, Elections, and
Hearings. Being responsible for Nominations also requires Count Tabula
to keep track the term limits on the Offices. It's not a high-workload
Office, but it does require attention.

In order to avoid confusion, I intend to hold off on appointing a
replacement until after the Nominations currently in progress are
done. (The replacement would then conduct the actual Elections.)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:10:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 154

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> >> Create a new rule called "You Moron Walmsley" numbered
> >> 321.1111839547 reading as follows:
> >> 
> >> "{{The current government of Ackanomia is set to Democracy. All
> >> votes cast by any players since the adoption 3495 are counted. This
> >> rule takes precedence over rule 103 (Retroactive Effects)}}"
> >> AARRGGHH!!
> > 
> > What is "adoption 3495"?
> > It could mean "proposal 3495 was accepted", but that seems a bit of a
> > stretch, don't you think?
> 
> Not really. "adoption 3495" == "adoption of 3495". I think one would
> be hard pressed to come up with a reasonable alternate interpretation.
> Not that I approve of shoddily-written rules, mind you, but this sort
> of thing is hardly uncommon.

Oh, another question.  If someone voted in such a way that their vote was
only counted by virtue of this CSR, would they earn points for it?
Retroactivity makes the vote legal, but does the retroactivity extend to
the other ramifications of that vote (which are not dealt with directly
by the CSR)?

It sounds like an interesting CFJ question - but it might be moot given
the existence of a prior CFJ as to whether the CSR was wholly necessary.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:01:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Presidential Nomination

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Of course, whenever the President needs to be re-elected so do two
> > of the Senators...
> 
> Senatorial Seat Rebus 8-{}, currently held by Calvin N Hobbes, is the
> only one that has not had an election within the past 16 weeks, so a
> Nomination for that seat now begins. Reply to nominate yourself.

Calvin therefore gets a Blue Cross Bonus, for having served as Senator for
a period longer than six weeks.

This takes Calvin N Hobbes' BCR up to over 60.
I award Calvin N Hobbes a Gold Stripe for eir meritorious work in
proposing changes to Acka over the years.
Eir three Silver Stripes fade away into nothingness.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Clerk of the Court

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3561

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
>I like the bit about it being not the same gadget, but I'll vote against
>because of the lower time limit.

I kinda like having ways to get gadgets in the game.  Why would allowing 2
a month instead of 1 a month (well 2 every 28 days) bother you?  The not
the same gadget restriction is to balance the fact that you can produce
more gadgets.   Why are you opposed to the lower time limit?

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:18:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3561

Gadgets are far too powerful and pontentially abusive.  Look at all the
friggin' SBoC's wandering around.. It's a freakin' joke.  Especially
with the reading service.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3561

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Matt Miller wrote:
>Gadgets are far too powerful and pontentially abusive.  Look at all the
>friggin' SBoC's wandering around.. It's a freakin' joke.  Especially
>with the reading service.

Alright.. I see this won't fly.

I retract P3561.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:48:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Thrall

Prop: Player -> Overlord
3526: /dev/joe -> JT
3535: 404 Not Found -> /dev/joe

Current Thrall totals:

Alfvaen 3
Mr. Tambourine Man 3
Slakko 3
breadbox, K 2, Ethelred, JT, 867-5309, /dev/joe  1

Yours,
Slakko
Thrallmaster
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:54:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Head Apollo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: *that* book

If I am not already in the Library, I go there. I pop into *that* room (if
it is legal for me to do so).

Eris

(Needless conditional clauses a speciality.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 16:32:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: french-scotsman

Sacre Bleu, et Mon Dieu!  Eef I sot zat ze situation was bad before, how
you have proven me wrong.  Monsieurs et madamoiselles, how can you call
yourselves francais?  Zis is ze third time in just vignt-quatre heures zat
vous, parceque je suis un "newbie", have cheated moi out of les points
miens!  I did not know zese "rules."  I am Frainch!  Why should i learn ze
rules?  Ze rules should learn me!  Quelle Horreur!  Well, whatever ze case
may be, si tu n'arrete pas, je sera en colere avec toi.  Zo, once again, i
say to you, be nice, or else i will be angry and stompez-you like napoleon.
 Salut, mon ami.  Mais, JE VEUZ MES POINTS!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:34:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Nothing Important

JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
trinket by P2367. Well done JT.

MTM, custodian.

- ------

The first player to post the valid translated text of the Runestone
of Jukkasjarvi (Translation) shall find the Treasure of Jukkasjarvi.
A Translation is valid if and only if it meets all of the following
conditions:

1) It is in a public message.

2) It contains a numbered list of at least 6 items from the following
list, (or reasonable paraphrases of the text), numbered as in the
following list but in Roman numerals.  All such sections must be true
with respect to the player posting the list.  While the text is
permitted
to be a substantially similar paraphrase, the numbers must be correct,
and correctly correspond to the appropriate section in the list, and
must
be in Roman form.  For the purposes of this section, 'list' above means
'list I' below.

3) It contains 0 items substantially similar to any item on the list
labelled as list II, and 0 items similar to neither list I or
list II.

Alternatively, rather than post a valid translation, Malenkai, and only
Malenkai, can retrieve the Treasure by publically posting that he is
doing so [in case this totally bombs].

[List I and II represent the actual map wording.  What follows after
list II are the actual pieces to be distributed.]

==========
List I
==========

4. I have a number of processing chips which is prime and greater than
10.

6. I have submitted a proposal in the form of a sonnet. (For the
purposes of this condition, it need not conform to all the technical
specifications of a sonnet; a 14 line poem with some sort of rhyme
scheme is sufficient)

7. I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
it is '5' meters, (or as described in the rules, which has
precedence) [just in case a player is clever enough to pass a rule
legislating this].

9. I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is
'herring'.

10. I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is 'Saaramaa'.

11. I have stated 3 words, one of which contains 5 consecutive vowels,
one which contains 5 consecutive consonants, and one of which contains
6 different vowels in alphabetical order.  The words are <a>, <b>, and
<c>.  Moreover, I have used one of these words in a proposal; it is
proposal <x>.  <a>, <b>, and <c> each must qualify as above, and be in
the official dictionary; proposal <x> must contain one of the words,
and have been submitted by the player in question.

12. I have visited the Senate.

14. I have correctly stated the age of the Brass Monkey's three
brothers.
They are: '9', '2', '2', (or as described in the rules, which has
precedence) [just in case a player is clever enough to pass a rule
legislating their ages].

==========
List 2
==========

1. I have submitted a proposal that contains at least 30 words, but
contains no verbs.

2. I have made a guess at the Machine that goes *ping* truth, and that
guess contains the word 'chartreuse' as part of the truth.

3. I have purchased a party chess piece other than a pawn.

5. I was the first to complete task number 1.

8. I have verbatim posted a piece of this puzzle in a public message,
other
than this one.

13. I have legally chewed the Gumball and then have visited a Tower and
then
have vexed, annoyed, and harrassed the Brass Monkey, and then have tried

to impeach a member of the Senate.

21. I have found a Buried Treasure worth at least A$257.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
end official text of the map as required by R "Buried Treasure!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

===================
===================
Actual distribution
===================
===================

[Items 4, 6, 7/23, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 correspond to correct list 1
entries.
 Items 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 correspond to bogus list 2 entries.
 Items 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22+ are meta clues.

 Any text in [] is notes to me, not to be distributed.

 BE CAREFUL TO DISTRIBUTE FROM THIS LIST, AND NOT THE [] TEXT]

- --------------------------------------------------------------------

1. K jcxg uwdokvvgf c rtqrqucn vjcv eqpvckpu cv ngcuv 30 yqtfu, dwv
eqpvckpu pq xgtdu.

[simple +2 to each character > 64 encryption.  Shouldn't be too
hard.  Its a bogus clue anyway, leading to:

I have submitted a proposal that contains at least 30 words, but
contains no verbs.]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

2. 49 20 68 61 76 65 20 6D 61 64 65 20 61 20 67 75 65
   73 73 20 61 74 20 74 68 65 20 4D 61 63 68 69 6E 65
   20 74 68 61 74 20 67 6F 65 73 20 2A 70 69 6E 67 2A
   20 74 72 75 74 68 2C 20 61 6E 64 20 74 68 61 74 0A
   67 75 65 73 73 20 63 6F 6E 74 61 69 6E 73 20 74 68
   65 20 77 6F 72 64 20 27 63 68 61 72 74 72 65 75 73
   65 27 20 61 73 20 70 61 72 74 20 6F 66 20 74 68 65
   20 74 72 75 74 68 2E

[simple hex encoding, which translates to:

I have made a guess at the Machine that goes *ping* truth, and that
guess contains the word 'chartreuse' as part of the truth.]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

3. I have purchased a party chess piece other than a pawn.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

4. I have a number of processing chips which is prime and greater than
10.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

5. I was the first to complete task number 1.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

6. I have taken a form of snowgod's cure, except I have replaced
17 pills of one color with 14 of another.

[Translates to: I have submitted a proposal in the form of a sonnet,
from 'snowgod's cure', as prescribed by Malenkai for snowgod's case
of snowgod's disease, coming to fruition in P 1647.]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

7. I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
it is <X> meter(s).

[X is 5, derived from the monkey problem given on clue 23.]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

8. I have verbatim posted a piece of this puzzle in a public message,
other
than this one.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

9. I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is <X>.

[X = 'herring' from stone 17]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

10. I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is <X>.

[X = 'Saaramaa', from several clues dropped before this started]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

11. I have stated 3 words, one of which contains 5 consecutive vowels,
one which contains 5 consecutive consonants, and one of which contains
6 different vowels in alphabetical order.  The words are <a>, <b>, and
<c>.  Moreover, I have used one of these words in a proposal, proposal
<x>.

[valid words in the official dictionary for
a = 'queueing', b = 'witchcraft', c = 'facetiously']

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

12. 1 + 2 + 10 + 20 + 33 = 960.  [sorry, this one is rather nasty :)]

[Translating to:  'I have visited the Senate.'

This is solved in conjunction with clue 13, and is rather nasty.
Clue 13 is false, but inbedded in it are the words to clue 12,
specifically words 1, 2, 10, 30, and 33.  The only way to make the
connection is via 960, which is the proposal number that contains
the 'vexed, annoyed, and harrassed the Brass Monkey' language, which
is used to make the connection, with luck.]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

13. I have legally chewed the Gumball and then have visited a Tower and
then
have vexed, annoyed, and harrassed the Brass Monkey, and then have tried

to impeach a member of the Senate.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

14.  The Fat Lady and the Brass Monkey were hanging at the Tower of
Bandwidth one day.  The Monkey said to the Fat Lady, "I'll bet
you an Amber Banana that you cannot guess the age of my three brothers,
who all happen to be celebrating birthdays today".
    "I'm hungry", said the Fat Lady, "bet I can.".
    "Ok", said the Monkey to the Fat Lady, "start singing when you know,

here are your clues:

    The sum of their ages is 13.
    The product of their ages is the same as your age.
    My eldest brother's age divides evenly into the sum of his
weight and the number of times I have climed the Tower of Futility."

    "I know them!", shrieked the Fat Lady, in a shrill, off key voice.
"Pay up my Banana!  ... You don't have anything else to munch on, do ya,

Potatoes, Gumballs ..."

    I have correctly stated the age of the Brass Monkey's three
brothers.
They are: <A>, <B>, <C>.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

15. 2X 3Y 3B 2Z 2C 3Q 13 3H 3Y 3V 3T 13 2V 3K 32 27 3E
    3J 13 40 3V 13 40 3J 2C 13 2W 3F 42 2C 3U 13 2F 3K
    2K 3Q 2W 1J

[Base 29 encoding.  Same as base 36 without the digits 'A', 'G',
'M', 'O', 'P', 'R', 'S'.  These are from 'programs' given in clue 18.

The actual source was:

'TraVEl from RiYAdh to thE SevEn HiLlS.', which is:

Travel from Riyadh to the Seven Hills.

Which is an oblique clue to translate from Arabic to Roman.]

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

16. 1Y 2X 1U 27 32 2P 2R 1V 2X 0W 21 37 0W 38 20 2T 0W
    2T 2E 21 30 0W 38 2F 2X 32 1A

[Straight base 36 encoding, translating to:

FiBOnacCi Is tHe eVIl tWin.
Fibonacci is the evil twin.

Indicating Fibonacci numbered clues are bogus.]

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

17. I am a red herring, but perhaps you can sell or trade me.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

18. Only a fool would use programs when solving a difficult encryption.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

19. Some clues are false but look true yet a false clue has elements
of truth and thus its falsity is false, thus this clue is false,
making it true.  Some clues are worded just to confuse you, but
know that a false clue will invalidate you.  Clue two is false too,
but they depend on each other.  Its ok to have done a false clue,
but don't you admit to it too.  The number of other bogus clues is the
same as the number of Hills, although at least one of the bogus ones
may vex you with elements of truth.  This clue is bogus.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

20. This clue is of little value.  However, parts of this treasure
involve doing unusual game actions.  Perhaps you could throw some gizz
into the system by doing random weird game actions, or you could learn
by watching the actions of other players.

As a pointer, if you are going to do a weird action as part of this
treasure hunt, do it in conjunction with a couple of other weird actions

that have nothing to do with the hunt, that way people won't pick up
on the correct one so easily.  You cannot get hurt by doing a wrong
action unless you *claim* to have done it as part of the Runestone.
That mistake was made by /dev/joe when searching for the Map of Jara.
As I write this, that hunt as not been completed, so I do not know if
it actually hurt him or not.

Also, all correct things on the submission list start with "I", followed

by a verb.  I say this because there are some meta clues in here.
One tip, its possible that the answer to one of the clues does not
lie on a piece of the Runestone.

How many do you need?  Well, you should know the upper bound already.
The minimum?  Suffice it to say that the solution to that question
lies buried in the solution to the Quorum Crisis.  Good Luck!

[an oblique reference to NumberSix, the player who authored P 587,
which solved the Quorum Crisis.  Although old-timers will remember this,

anyone can find it in breadbox's history page.]

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

21. I have found a Buried Treasure worth at least A$257.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

22. You cannot win unless you make an important translation in your
final translation post.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

23. The Brass Monkey's chain is passed over a pulley.  It has a weight
on one end and the Brass Monkey hanging on the other.  There is the
same length of chain on either side and equilibrium is maintained.
The chain weighs 250 grams per meter.  The age of the monkey and
the age of the monkey's mother together total four years.  The
weight of the monkey is as many kilograms as the monkey's mother
is years old.  The monkey's mother is twice as old as the monkey
was when the monkey's mother was half as old as the monkey will
be when the monkey is three times as old as the monkey's mother
was when the monkey's mother was three times as old as the monkey.
The weight of the chain and the weight at the end was half as much
again as the difference in weight between the weight of the weight
and the weight and the weight of the monkey.

[
I. The first thing to look at is the complex age sentence.  Taking A
to mean an age, m and mm to mean the monkey and its mother is the
first step.  Thus Am is the age of the monkey now.  That sentence
specifies various temporal things about the monkeys' age.  For every
time mentioned, we just add a subscript to an age, ie, Amm1 is the
age of the monkey's mother at the first time alluded to in that
sentence.  Reading the sentence carefully, we can ascertain 3 times
other than the present being referred to, and can write down the
following equations:

Amm = 2Am1
Amm1 = .5*Am2
Am2 = 3*Amm3
Amm3 = 3Am3

The age of the of the monkey and the age of the monkey's mother,
regardless of the time in question, are always seperated by a
constant, c.  In general, we can write Ammx = Amx + c, where x
is null or any of the temporal numbers used previously.

Getting rid of the monkey's mother in the previous equations leads
to:

Am + c = 2Am1
Am1 + c = .5*Am2
Am2 = 3*(Am3 + c)
Am3 + c = 3Am3

4 equations and 5 variables.  We also know, however, from the beginning
of the problem:

Am + Amm = 4, or getting rid of the monkey's mother again:
Am + Am + c = 4

Now we have 5 equations, and 5 variables:

Am + c = 2Am1
Am1 + c = .5*Am2
Am2 = 3*(Am3 + c)
Am3 + c = 3Am3
Am + Am + c = 4

and Am comes out to 1.5, leaving Amm = 2.5.

II. The next step is parsing that bit about the weights at the end.
The weight of the weight is the same as the weight of the monkey,
so we read weight of weight as weight of monkey, and write down,
after careful reading, either:

wc + wm = 1.5*(wm - wm + wm); or
wc + wm = 1.5*(2*wm - wm); depending on how you want to parse it.

They amount to the same thing, leading to

wc = .5*wm

III.  We know that wm in kg is the age of the monkey's mother, or 2.5
kg,
therefore the weight of the chain is 1.25kg.

The chain ways .25kg per meter, therefore it is 5 meters long.
]

..

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:49:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

> JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
> notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
> trinket by P2367. Well done JT.
> 
> [...]

WOW.

Congratulations, JT and /dev/joe and everyone else who was involved.
("Travel from Ridyah to the Seven Hills"?! Oy.)

I look forward to hearing some stories now!

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:56:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
> notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
> trinket by P2367. Well done JT.

I give my Jukkasjarvi mind control laser to JT.  

congratulations

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:59:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:
>> JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
>> notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
>> trinket by P2367. Well done JT.
>> 
>> [...]
>
>WOW.
>
>Congratulations, JT and /dev/joe and everyone else who was involved.
>("Travel from Ridyah to the Seven Hills"?! Oy.)
>
>I look forward to hearing some stories now!

/dev/joe will be publishing an ACK issue about this soon.  I know for a
fact that I couldn't have done it alone, and I wouldn't have gotten the
last clue we were missing (the fibonacci is the evil twin) as quickly as I
did if it hadn't been for Weishaupt quoting the fibonacci series on IRC.

when he did, 2 and 13 are both fibonacci numbers and we knew (or had
guessed) that they were bogus.  I guessed and was proven right that the
valid fragments were the NON-fibonacci numbers, and thus the evil twin.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > JT has found the Jukkasjarvi treasure.The map, along with Malenkai's
> > notes on it are as follows except that processing chip was changed to
> > trinket by P2367. Well done JT.
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> WOW.

Yes, wow.
I seem to remember Malenkai wondering why it was taking so long.
Perhaps this will be some indication:

Assume a player could sort out the meta-clues from the others, and merely
could not tell which were bogus and which were not.

Then there would be 15 things to satisfy, but only 8 of which could be
included in an acceptable set of 6.

That's 5005 possible sets of 6, of which only 28 are correct.
Someone trying the set of sets would be committing one hell of a BWG
offense.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:05:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

> Then there would be 15 things to satisfy, but only 8 of which could be
> included in an acceptable set of 6.
>
> That's 5005 possible sets of 6, of which only 28 are correct.
> Someone trying the set of sets would be committing one hell of a BWG
> offense.

Also, there was initially no way of knowing that it was six fragments
necessary (that was a horribly obcure clue which was in one of the recent map
shards).

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:18:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nothing Important

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

>> Then there would be 15 things to satisfy, but only 8 of which could be
>> included in an acceptable set of 6.
>>
>> That's 5005 possible sets of 6, of which only 28 are correct.
>> Someone trying the set of sets would be committing one hell of a BWG
>> offense.
>
>Also, there was initially no way of knowing that it was six fragments
>necessary (that was a horribly obcure clue which was in one of the recent map
>shards).

This is *very* true.  Both /dev/joe and I had believed it was some number
less than 9, but that's all.  No real clue as to how many was sufficient.

The arabic to roman also came from a map shard (the one I played most
recently) and that let us know the ***'d in mess at the top and what frag
15 was talking about.

Between /dev/joe and myself we knew what every fragment other than 16
meant.

/dev/joe's last Map Shard only gave us information that the clues were
partitioned into at least two lists and some information about the last
entry of list one (that it was the ages of the monkeys) and the first
entry on list 2 (fragment number 1).

In honor of the help recieved, I do the following:
I offer the Codex of Jara to ThinMan.
I offer the Prophet of the Golden Frog Prosthetic Forehead to Weishaupt.
I donate the Golden Frog to the Museaum at which point it's value
increases by 30% (from A$600 to A$780).
I also donate the Curious Clock to the Museum at which point it's value
increases from A$65 to A$84.

Once the automatic sculpture is described (IE, once I have picked the Mad
Sculptor), I will be giving that to /dev/joe.

I also thank everyone else who has helped or contributed in some way to
finding this treasure.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:29:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Golden Froggy

I accept JT's offer of the froggy forehead

K2: how bout updating the treasure page now? :)

- -Weishaupt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:35:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Automatic Sculpture 2 - Mad Sculptor (Alfvaen)

The automatic sculpture dug up from treasure 122 has transformed into
the trinket Sculpture 2.

The Mad Sculptor who has been assigned is: Alfvaen

E has 3 days to describe this sculpture.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:40:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3571

The objection I have to this is not the one stated by the proposerm but
rather that it would potentially break existing rules, and Rule Suites,
which depend in part on precedence.

Niccolo Flychuck

 On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 3571
> Creating Conflicts
> Ethelred (David Kenning)
> 
> This is a Modest Proposal.
> 
> [I can see no logical reason for the current system of deciding superiority
> in rule conflicts -- I mean, if a proposal has been accepted, it is because
> people agreed with the content of that proposal, and it's a bit tight if it
> then turns out that the effects of the proposal are not as intended because of
> some earlier proposal claiming superiority. Before anyone states the obvious
> objection, I realise that this *might* lead to players deliberately putting
> forward proposals containg elements contrary to existing rules, but (a) I don't
> see this as a necessarily bad thing, and (b) if people did start deliberately
> putting forward proposals with contrary statements, I would expect them not to
> be accepted anyway]
> 
> Amend Rule 102/8 to read as per the following CONFLICT delimited text:
> 
> CONFLICT
> If two or more rules other than this one conflict on a particular issue, and if
> the rules other than this one (and not restricted to the conflicting rules)
> specify a single, coherent, unambiguous method for resolving the conflict then
> that method is applied to determine which rule or rules take precedence with
> regard to that issue. Otherwise, wherever the rules conflict on a particular
> issue, the rule which shall guide play with regard to that issue shall be
> decided at random by the OiCoRT. Rule conflicts that are resolved in this way
> shall not establish a basis for resolving future instances of conflict caused
> by the same rules. In each case, the OiCoRT should resolve the conflict without
> any weighting based on previous judgements.
> 
> If two statements within a single rule conflict with each other, and the rule
> doesn't define a way to resolve the conflict,precedence shall be described by
> the same means. 
> CONFLICT
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #308
*******************************