Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #305
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Tuesday, September 8 1998      Volume 03 : Number 305

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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 00:54:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: acka: Flora Amanita

> >the future never happened

> My congratulations to Weishaupt, who has found the Flora Amanita.

> The map was:
> The first player, other than Rex Mundi, to publicly post the string The future
> never happened, or any string which varies from that only in capitalisation,
> in a message with the subject "acka: Flora Amanita" will find the Flora
> Amanita.

> I picked this string more or less at random from the list of alternate
> song/album titles in the cover of the REM's "Monster".

Never thought of looking there.  I was still stuck on "Life's Rich Pageant".
Very clever.

Lot of Treasures being found recently...maybe even Jukkasjarvi shall fall.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Glass Tiger:The Thin Red Line
Current Book--John M. Ford:Web of Angels
Don't touch anything that makes your body feel like Ginger Ale.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:33:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Once more the call goes out for Mr. Tambourine Man

I am posting the following translation (or reasonable paraphrase) of the
jukkasjarvi runestone.

IV.   I have a number of processing chips (now trinkets) which is prime
      and greater than X.  (I have either XI or XIII).

VII.  I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
      it is V meter(s).

IX.   I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is
      herring.

X.    I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is Saaremaa.

XII.  I have visited the Senate.

XIV.  I have correctly stated the age of the Brass Monkey's three 
      brothers.  They are: IX, II, and II.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:38:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Once more the call goes out for Mr. Tambourine Man (fwd)

This was actually sent the first time while I still had 56 too many
trinkets, so I am resubmitting it here after I've given those 56 trinkets
away.

I am posting the following translation (or reasonable paraphrase) of the
jukkasjarvi runestone.

IV.   I have a number of processing chips (now trinkets) which is prime
      and greater than X.  (I have either XI or XIII).

VII.  I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
      it is V meter(s).

IX.   I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is
      herring.

X.    I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is Saaremaa.

XII.  I have visited the Senate.

XIV.  I have correctly stated the age of the Brass Monkey's three 
      brothers.  They are: IX, II, and II.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: MTM: me too!

VI. I have taken a form of snowgod's cure, except I have replaced
XVII pills of one color with XIV of another. (prop MMMDXXXI)

VII. I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
it is V meters.

VIII. I have verbatim posted a piece of this puzzle in a public message, other
than this one. (tues, sept I)

IX. I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is herring.

X. I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is Saaremaa.

XI. I have stated III words, one of which contains V consecutive vowels,
one which contains V consecutive consonants, and one of which contains
VI different vowels in alphabetical order.  The words are queueing,
strengths, and facetiously.  Moreover, I have used one of these words in a
proposal, proposal MMMDXXXII.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:44:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Once more the call goes out for Mr. Tambourine Man (fwd)

At 01:38 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This was actually sent the first time while I still had 56 too many
>trinkets, so I am resubmitting it here after I've given those 56 trinkets
>away.
>
>I am posting the following translation (or reasonable paraphrase) of the
>jukkasjarvi runestone.
>
>IV.   I have a number of processing chips (now trinkets) which is prime
>      and greater than X.  (I have either XI or XIII).
>
>VII.  I have correctly stated the length of the Brass Monkey's chain,
>      it is V meter(s).
>
>IX.   I have correctly named a type of fish on another stone, it is
>      herring.
>
>X.    I have correctly stated the name of the island, it is Saaremaa.
>
>XII.  I have visited the Senate.

Note the number on the previous one.

>XIV.  I have correctly stated the age of the Brass Monkey's three 
>      brothers.  They are: IX, II, and II.
>
>
>--JT
>
>
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
>[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
>[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
>[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:07:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 641 (FALSE)

I am appealing this verdict (CFJ 641)- assuming it is still possible
with the following
BOINK delimited text:

BOINK
Rule 251 stated in part:
"
In addition, if the name change has not yet been accepted as described
in the following paragraph, the Registrar may object to the name change
if e feels that the new name is either a) too close to an existing
player name(i.e. differs by only one or two characters), or b) is
intended only to exploit Malenkai's Loophole(see Rule 721). 

If the Registrar acknowledges a legal name change, or after three days
have passed if the Registrar neither acknowledges the change nor objects
to it(and the new name complies with all applicable rules), then the
name change is accepted and occurs, at which time the player in question
shall pay the Standard Harfer Fee. 
"

In accordance with this:
On 26 Jul 1998 14:52:45 JT stated:
As I warned Mr. Tambourine Man that I would, I object to this name
change on the grounds that I believe it is designed to exploit the
lexical equivalence between the attempted Ackanomic Name and the Real
Life Name of another player, thus potentially opening up an abuse of
Malenkai's Loophole.
and later:
On 26 Jul 1998 15:19:45 JT stated:
And similarly to how/why I rejected Mr. Tambourine Man's name change, I
reject this name change.

These messages on JT's part clearly indicate a belief (feeling) that the
name change is/was an attempt to exploit Malenkai's Loophole. Since the
first of the quoted paragraphs permits the Registrar (JT) to object on
these grounds, the second quoted paragraph takes effect and denies the
name change. Thus 867-5309 failed to change eir name to Tom Walmsley.

BOINK

Duncan Richer wrote:

> rufus has judged this one FALSE.
>
> Call for Judgement 641 - August 4, 1998
> Subject: True Names
> Initiator: K 2 (Sent 4 Aug 1998, 14:32 Acka time)
> 1st Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (selected 06 Aug 1998, 18:25 Acka) (deadbeat)
> 2nd Judge: J. M. Bear (selected 15 Aug 1998, 03:52 Acka) (deadbeat)
> 3rd Judge: Memo (selected 22 Aug 1998, 04:35 Acka) (deadbeat)
> 4th Judge: rufus (selected 29 Aug 1998, 18:58 Acka)
> Judgement: FALSE
>
> Statement:
> No player of Ackanomic has ever had an Ackanomic name (as distinct from
> a real name) of Tom Walmsley.
>
> Reasoning:
> When the entity then known as
> a-collection-of-numbers-that-I-can-never-remember-which-relate-in-some-manne
> r-to-the-string-"Jenny"
> attempted to change eir name the registrar (JT - an altogether easier
> name to remember) objected on the grounds of "Malenkai's Loophole". As a
> result the change did not occur.
>
> Judge's Reasoning:
> False.  JT lacked the power to deny the change.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

Rig R. Mortis has been selected.

Call for Judgement 658 - September 7, 1998
Subject: Nullity 3504
Initiator: breadbox (sent 7 Sep 1998, 18:09 Acka)
Judge: Rig R. Mortis
Judgement:

Statement:

Proposal 3504 is a Null Proposal.

Reasoning:

Proposal 3504 specifies seven items. Let's look at them.

The first two items are as follows:

> To the rule harfer, Please add the following text to the rules as rule
> number 1399:
> ---
> [...]
> ---
> And if you would be so kind as to perform the following changes:
> 
> [...]
> ---

These are not descriptions of effects or one-time changes to the game
state. They are formal requests for another player to do something,
and are thus meaningless as game effects.

Alternately, we might interpret these items as actually saying, "The
Rule Harfer shall add the following text to the rules ... and perform
the following changes ..." It's a bit of a stretch, but if read this
way, they are valid effects, since they cause a player to be required
to perform certain actions. However, I hardly need to point to that no
one player, not even the Rule-Harfer, is permitted to make change the
rules. The Rule-Harfer is permitted to make changes to an official
document that is supposed to reflect the rules. But "[t]he Official
Rules Document is not the Rules."

Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
have:

> An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
> associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.

This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
with a player named Slakko.

> All entities owned by Tammany are transferred into the possession of
> Slakko.
> All offices held by Tammany are instead held by Slakko.
> All titles held by Tammany are given to Slakko.

Tammany owns no entities, and holds no Offices or Titles.

> Repeal Rule 1399.

There is no such rule.

Final summation: Null Proposal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:38:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: (Actually Brian Raiter wrote the
CFJ argument here)

> Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
> state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
> have:
> 
> > An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
> > associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.
> 
> This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
> with a player named Slakko.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this "one time change to the game state"
occurs by virtue of Rule 104.  Rule 104 says nothing about deferring to
other rules.  The illegality of two players having the same name is
specified by Rule 348.  So Rule 104 says this new Slakko exists, while
Rule 348 says e doesn't.  Wouldn't Rule 104 win the battle?

> 
> > All entities owned by Tammany are transferred into the possession of
> > Slakko.
Now ambiguous
> > All offices held by Tammany are instead held by Slakko.
Now ambiguous
> > All titles held by Tammany are given to Slakko.
Now ambiguous
> 
> Tammany owns no entities, and holds no Offices or Titles.
> 
> > Repeal Rule 1399.
> 
> There is no such rule.
> 
> Final summation: Null Proposal.
> 
> 

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:41:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mueller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Aka: You know... for adolescents

For all that gizmoing and hammering, perhaps I forgot just how many
documents there are.  Before I spend another crazed night of expirement and
A$100 on a discovery, would this put the necessary safeguards in?

Instead of

Exactly 3 of these gadgets may exist in Ackanomic at any 
given time. A player who owns an Ackanomic Magic Pen may
use the pen to make any one change to any Ackanomic 
Document [such as the Literature List] excluding rules 
and proposals.  This change can be adding, deleting, or 
replacing up to 10 words, with whatever punctuation and 
line breaks are necessary for the change to fit the 
format of the document.

put in 

Exactly 3 of these gadgets may exist in Ackanomic at any 
given time. A player who owns an Ackanomic Magic Pen may
use the pen to make any one change to any Ackanomic 
Document [such as the Literature List] excluding rules, proposals, CFJs,
CSRs, any document which archives 
changes to rules, game custom, email, or any document 
which records membership in Organizations, Offices, or
Swingerships.  This change can be adding, deleting, or 
replacing up to 10 words, with whatever punctuation and 
line breaks are necessary for the change to fit the 
format of the document.

I think that's all the dangerous stuff people mentioned and it leaves
things like the Lexicon in.

Studge

PS Breadbox mentioned a dilike for self-deleting creation in the discovery,
which I share.  I thought that it was appropriate in order that the veto by
other pen holders be in place from the very beginning.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Actions (Thread SLAKKOEXISTS)

I suggest that SPAM transfer its Whamiol to me (the previous owner of that
Whamiol).

Yours,
Slakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:44:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: (Actually Brian Raiter wrote the
>CFJ argument here)
>
>> Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
>> state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
>> have:
>> 
>> > An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
>> > associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.

This might be considered ambiguous since such an active voting player
already exists and each real life person can have only one player.

>> This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
>> with a player named Slakko.
>
>Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this "one time change to the game state"
>occurs by virtue of Rule 104.  Rule 104 says nothing about deferring to
>other rules.  The illegality of two players having the same name is
>specified by Rule 348.  So Rule 104 says this new Slakko exists, while
>Rule 348 says e doesn't.  Wouldn't Rule 104 win the battle?

The other two effects are not ambiguous, but have no effect assuming the
first one is ambiguous.

I will also note that in the case where Duncan Richer is no longer Slakko,
or in the case where Slakko is now two entities, we don't have a CotC and
thus this CFJ wasn't legally distributed.

I don't believe either of those threads will end up being born out, but it
is something to keep in mind.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, JT wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: (Actually Brian Raiter wrote the
> >CFJ argument here)
> >
> >> Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
> >> state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
> >> have:
> >> 
> >> > An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
> >> > associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.
> 
> This might be considered ambiguous since such an active voting player
> already exists and each real life person can have only one player.

It is not ambiguous - there is no information you could add to it that
would make it any clearer - what it does is clear - it creates a player
associated with me, called Slakko.  The fact that there is already a
player associated with me, called Slakko, does not make the creation of
another such player ambiguous at all.  It makes it an action in conflict
with Rule 340 (and possibly also with some rules in the 250s), but it does
not introduce any ambiguity to the creation action.

Of course this makes future player actions by me ambiguous, unless I can
find some way to specify which Slakko I am talking about, but that is
irrelevant.

Your claim "each real life person can have only one player" is based on
one of the rules in the 250s, I guess.  Rule 104, however, was responsible
for creating the second Slakko, and takes precedence in the event of a
conflict by virtue of its lower number, so I think the creation still
happened.

> 
> >> This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
> >> with a player named Slakko.
> >
> >Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this "one time change to the game state"
> >occurs by virtue of Rule 104.  Rule 104 says nothing about deferring to
> >other rules.  The illegality of two players having the same name is
> >specified by Rule 348.  So Rule 104 says this new Slakko exists, while
> >Rule 348 says e doesn't.  Wouldn't Rule 104 win the battle?
> 
> The other two effects are not ambiguous, but have no effect assuming the
> first one is ambiguous.
> 
> I will also note that in the case where Duncan Richer is no longer Slakko,
> or in the case where Slakko is now two entities, we don't have a CotC and
> thus this CFJ wasn't legally distributed.

In the case where I am two entities, the older Slakko is still Clerk of
the Court, so nothing there has actually changed except for the existence
of this "rogue" Slakko.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:54:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Actions (Thread TWOSLAKKOS)

I, the Slakko who was created by the acceptance of Proposal 3504, change
my name to Doppelslakko.

Yours,
Slakko the Younger
now Doppelslakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:11:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions (Thread TWOSLAKKOS)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>I, the Slakko who was created by the acceptance of Proposal 3504, change
>my name to Doppelslakko.

Actually, I went looking through the rules.
I believe that rule 250 takes precedence over 104 (it claims precedence
and 104 doesn't)

From rule 250
>Those natural persons, and only those natural persons, who are not
>Non-Players are Players. Players are named, unownable entities.

You (as the natural person Duncan Richer) were already a player, so this
might be sufficient to prevent this from happening, however no rule
actually forbids there to be two players with the same RL player.

Joining the game only controls non-players joining, which means that an
existing player cannot re-enter that way since they are already a player
and not a non-player, so I am in fact afraid that there is now a
DoppleSlakko with a True Name of Duncan Richer/1 :)

(which btw gives you a perfectly valid way to distinguish between the
two).

I will update the pages momentarily, and note that this also effectively
gives you 2 votes on every proposal. :)  (you don't however get any
starting cash or land as far as I can tell :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions (Thread TWOSLAKKOS)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>I, the Slakko who was created by the acceptance of Proposal 3504, change
>my name to Doppelslakko.

In the thread where this occurs, I ack this name change.

- --JT, Registrar

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: Blueprint Redux

> OK, I have revised this to put the definition of Hosed in the
> postmaster's rule (perhaps it deserves its own rule, but this will
> do for now, I suppose) and to keep the BWG Laser and shotgun
> attachment (and fixed a bug in the shotgun attachment, which doesn't
> say how long the player stays hosed).

I actually would be willing to see the Shotgun Attachment repealed, by
the way. That one's a bit overboard. On the other hand, I'm starting
to think that you should consider putting all the Blueprint repeals
into a separate proposal (unless your rewrite would break them
anyway).

>>> Amend Rule 594.14, "Blueprint: Cheez-Whiz", by changing "The cheese in
>>> question will then be destroyed" to "The Cheez-Whiz will then destroy the
>>> cheese in question" and the sentence "All sentences that follow this one
>>> are, or describe, attributes of grapefruit, and they conflict with this
>>> one." is deleted.
>> 
>> I think you should keep that last sentence in there.
> 
> OK, *now* I'm confused.  People voted down the debunk proposal for
> this one, barely, and I assumed it was because people wanted to use
> it for its real use.  If you only want to keep it for sentimental
> value, then perhaps we should put it into the Harfonian.  (The way
> gadgets work, they normally won't get into the harfonian, but I can
> create a special Cheez-Whiz after repealing its rule if we want
> something to put there.)  For now, I have just decided to leave that
> sentence until I figure out what Acka really thinks about this.

Well, I dunno what anyone else wants. I'd be perfectly happy if the
Cheez-Whiz was never put toward a useful purpose. But that sentence is
utterly harmless, and it makes me laugh - particularly when I recall
how much trouble it caused with the CFJ it sparked.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:19:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Exhibition

In this message, all references to the pronoun "I" refer to the player
named Slakko who was not created as a result of the acceptance of Proposal
3504.

I go to the Town Hall.

I pay JT A$2 for an Exhibitionist's Permit.

I dance on the Town Hall Steps, wearing my two Agenda Hats, with the
following (albeit repeated) description:

I want to wait before I win this game
So to the Hall for me to say this line
And while my motives may not be the same
As yours, I guess this message must be mine.
A dance I danced to guarantee this Hat
For TRUE is what its logic state should be
I turned around and waltzed to this and that
And trilled upon my flute a melody.
I foxtrot, samba, rumba to my core
'Til zero energy I have retained
A horde of Harfers try to tell me "More!"
Alas by now my spirit's strength has waned.
I hope this dance Description you can take
I soft-shoe off to leave you in my wake.

I go to my home.

Yours,
Slakko the Elder
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:01:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions (Thread TWOSLAKKOS)

> Actually, I went looking through the rules.
> I believe that rule 250 takes precedence over 104 (it claims precedence
> and 104 doesn't)

Indeed it does.

>> From rule 250
>> Those natural persons, and only those natural persons, who are not
>> Non-Players are Players. Players are named, unownable entities.
> 
> You (as the natural person Duncan Richer) were already a player, so this
> might be sufficient to prevent this from happening

Even if it isn't, I would still advance the argument that there is
only one Slakko: Proposal 3504's attempted creation of a new player
would be ambiguous, since it failed to specify whether that player was
Voting or Non-voting, and did not associate an email address with that
player.

> Joining the game only controls non-players joining, which means that
> an existing player cannot re-enter that way since they are already a
> player and not a non-player, so I am in fact afraid that there is
> now a DoppleSlakko with a True Name of Duncan Richer/1 :)

If the above is in fact true, then I would appreciate it if
Doppelslakko could see emself far enough to resign from the game....

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:02:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions (Thread TWOSLAKKOS)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Actually, I went looking through the rules.
> > I believe that rule 250 takes precedence over 104 (it claims precedence
> > and 104 doesn't)
> 
> Indeed it does.
> 
> >> From rule 250
> >> Those natural persons, and only those natural persons, who are not
> >> Non-Players are Players. Players are named, unownable entities.
> > 
> > You (as the natural person Duncan Richer) were already a player, so this
> > might be sufficient to prevent this from happening
> 
> Even if it isn't, I would still advance the argument that there is
> only one Slakko: Proposal 3504's attempted creation of a new player
> would be ambiguous, since it failed to specify whether that player was
> Voting or Non-voting, and did not associate an email address with that
> player.

Okay - I can cope with that argument.

> 
> > Joining the game only controls non-players joining, which means that
> > an existing player cannot re-enter that way since they are already a
> > player and not a non-player, so I am in fact afraid that there is
> > now a DoppleSlakko with a True Name of Duncan Richer/1 :)
> 
> If the above is in fact true, then I would appreciate it if
> Doppelslakko could see emself far enough to resign from the game....

That probably wouldn't do any good.  I could easily see Doppelslakko being
put into the Hall of Elders just for the hell of it....

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Clerk of the Court

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:37:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, JT wrote:

> I will also note that in the case where Duncan Richer is no longer Slakko,
> or in the case where Slakko is now two entities, we don't have a CotC and
> thus this CFJ wasn't legally distributed.

So do I judge this or not? Judging (hehe) from the posts it's been
decided that there *are* two Slakkos and the CFJ is invalid. What do I
do?

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:41:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Bernard El-Hagin wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, JT wrote:
> 
> > I will also note that in the case where Duncan Richer is no longer Slakko,
> > or in the case where Slakko is now two entities, we don't have a CotC and
> > thus this CFJ wasn't legally distributed.
> 
> So do I judge this or not? Judging (hehe) from the posts it's been
> decided that there *are* two Slakkos and the CFJ is invalid. What do I
> do?

Actually, if we have two Slakkos, the CFJ was legally distributed, as one
Slakko remained Clerk of the Court.

Mind you, current consensus now appears to be that the proposal was Null.
Judge it, and don't worry if the judgement would invalidate the
circumstances under which the CFJ was issued.  That will all be sorted out
in time.

Yours,
Slakko (someone or other)
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Thrall

Prop: Player -> Overlord
3503: 404 Not Found -> JT
3511: Studge -> Ethelred
3513: Ethelred -> Slakko
3514: else...if -> Slakko
3524: JT -> 867-5309

Current Thrall totals:

Alfvaen 3
Mr. Tambourine Man 3
Slakko 3
breadbox, K 2, Ethelred, JT, 867-5309  1

Yours,
Slakko
Thrallmaster
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 658 (Rig R. Mortis)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> Rig R. Mortis has been selected.
> 
> Call for Judgement 658 - September 7, 1998
> Subject: Nullity 3504
> Initiator: breadbox (sent 7 Sep 1998, 18:09 Acka)
> Judge: Rig R. Mortis
> Judgement: TRUE
> 
> Statement:
> 
> Proposal 3504 is a Null Proposal.
> 
> Reasoning:
> 
> Proposal 3504 specifies seven items. Let's look at them.
> 
> The first two items are as follows:
> 
> > To the rule harfer, Please add the following text to the rules as rule
> > number 1399:
> > ---
> > [...]
> > ---
> > And if you would be so kind as to perform the following changes:
> > 
> > [...]
> > ---
> 
> These are not descriptions of effects or one-time changes to the game
> state. They are formal requests for another player to do something,
> and are thus meaningless as game effects.
> 
> Alternately, we might interpret these items as actually saying, "The
> Rule Harfer shall add the following text to the rules ... and perform
> the following changes ..." It's a bit of a stretch, but if read this
> way, they are valid effects, since they cause a player to be required
> to perform certain actions. However, I hardly need to point to that no
> one player, not even the Rule-Harfer, is permitted to make change the
> rules. The Rule-Harfer is permitted to make changes to an official
> document that is supposed to reflect the rules. But "[t]he Official
> Rules Document is not the Rules."
> 
> Next in the proposal is a list of five changes to the game
> state. Assuming the above two effects are in fact without effect, we
> have:
> 
> > An active voting player with the name Slakko is created and
> > associated with the natural person called Duncan Richer.
> 
> This is illegal, since the person Duncan Richer is already associated
> with a player named Slakko.
> 
> > All entities owned by Tammany are transferred into the possession of
> > Slakko.
> > All offices held by Tammany are instead held by Slakko.
> > All titles held by Tammany are given to Slakko.
> 
> Tammany owns no entities, and holds no Offices or Titles.
> 
> > Repeal Rule 1399.
> 
> There is no such rule.
> 
> Final summation: Null Proposal.

Reasoning:

breadbox's above reasoning is enough to yield TRUE on this CFJ.
I also base my judgement on Rule 250 which claims precedence thus
eliminating any conflict between it and Rule 104.

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:03:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Razor Boomerang Excavation

i-love-Synnibar

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:19:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Memberships

For a moment there I was going to say oops. but I see my memory of the rules
was (for once) served me well - fphew.

K 2

JT wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >I was looking through the Orgs list to see what memberships else...if had.
> >I couldn't find any - it appeared that the Org-Harfer had gone through and
> >eliminated them.  While else...if has "left the game", e is still a
> >player, and in fact an Elder, and I can find no rule which specifies that
> >e shall automatically leave any Organisations of which e was a member.
>
> >From rule 250 (Player States)
> VI. Upon Becoming (and while) On Ice:
> e) They are removed from all organizations of which they are a member.
>
> This happened as soon as he went On-Ice, which he did when he left the
> game, so yes, I believe he did in fact get removed from all orgs.
>
> --TJ
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:20:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Offices

The following entities nominated for CSRR
rufus
Weishaupt
TJ
Studge
Alfvaen

I apoint rufus as CSRR.

One player nominated an inelgible entity in eir possesion for
Scorekeeper, so Alfvaen remains in that position.

MTM has announced eir intent to resign as Ambassador so any entity who
wishes to fill that post should contact me...

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3504 accepted

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> Since Rule 603 considers points to be entities, I shall consider them to be
> transferred appropriately.  However, I note that Slakko's former attributes
> and characteristics are now lost, and eir Thrall attribute in particular.
> (And what happens if one's Thrall attribute is the name of a recently-
> debunked Discovery?)
>

I am a twit. I donate A$ 1 to the twits.I appologise to Slakko, since e prolly
isn't a member of any orgs now either...

K 2

> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--Gordon Lightfoot:Gord's Gold
> Current Book--John M. Ford:Web of Angels
> Egad!  A base tone denotes a bad age.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:

I denounce this suggestion.

K 2

Kelly Hubert Kelly wrote:

> I suggest that Shell#10 build a guardian Angel in MTM's possesion.
>
> K 2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Silver Moon

So what are the full results? There has only been one set of silver moon
results without full disclosure before - and besides I'm curious who
voted for me :)

K 2

Tom Walmsley wrote:

> In the silver moon hearing JT  received four votes, I received three,
> AtP two and K 2 one. This means that JT wins the silver moon.
> Congratulations JT.
>
> MTM.
>
> --
> Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
> http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
> AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
> Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:20:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Quirpele of Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

- ---
I point out that Rex Mundi Owns 7 otzma cards and must destroy one of
em...
- ---
The following entities nominated for CSRR
rufus
Weishaupt
TJ
Studge
Alfvaen

I apoint rufus as CSRR.

One player nominated an inelgible entity in eir possesion for
Scorekeeper, so Alfvaen remains in that position.

MTM has announced eir intent to resign as Ambassador so any entity who
wishes to fill that post should contact me...

I resign as scaremonger.
- ---
The Church of the Righteous Loophold Surfers has disbanded.
I leave the AVPP.
- ---
I convert 4 swingpoints to a bonus vote.
I read page 2 of my book of chorg which disappears in a flash of holy
light and a puff of holy smoke that tastes slightly murrey and beige;
but then that's a forked tongue for you.
- ---
The Functional Officer Pay ON THE FIRST MONDAY of september - 7/9/98
12:00:00 was as follows:

A$50  : MTM      : Ambassador; CSRR
A$125 : Slakko   : Chess Umpire; CotC; Map-Harfer; Web-Harfer; Thrall
Master
A$100 : breadbox : Postmaster; Promotor; Rule-Harfer; Tabulator
A$50  : K 2      : Financier; Org-Harfer
Auto  : K 2      : Treasure-Harfer
A$105 : JT       : Speaker; Trinket Harfer; Herald; Registar;
A$25  : Alfvaen  : Scorekeeper

Wild Card has the goose? but had only A$ 17 so e was bitten instead and
lost 9 points.

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:34:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Door Prize

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Door Prize for September Goes To:
# 1-1: /dev/joe's BV is A$ 1
# 2-3: Alfvaen's BV is A$ 2
# 4-962: JT's BV is A$ 959
# 963-1062: K 2's BV is A$ 100
# 1063-1731: Mr. Tambourine Man's BV is A$ 669
# 1732-1737: Rex Mundi's BV is A$ 6
# 1738-1743: ThinMan's BV is A$ 6
# 1744-1751: two-star's BV is A$ 8
# 1752-1816: Vynd's BV is A$ 65
# Roll A; 1-182
# Roll B; 1-10
# (A-1)*10+(B-1)

No. of sides on every die:     10
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      3

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Tue Sep  8 07:33:37 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id HAA08877 for <[email-masked]>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:33:37 -0700
> Received: from power.connexus.net.au(203.12.22.20) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma008852; Tue Sep  8 07:33:27 1998
> Received: from internex.net.au (dialin-a1-39.Melbourne.interNex.net.au [203.34.169.39]) by power.connexus.net.au (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA10513 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:33:23 +1000 (EST)
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:38:24 +1000
> From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: The Dice <[email-masked]>
> Subject: asd
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 10
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #C Door Prize for September Goes To:
> #C 1-1: /dev/joe's BV is A$ 1
> #C 2-3: Alfvaen's BV is A$ 2
> #C 4-962: JT's BV is A$ 959
> #C 963-1062: K 2's BV is A$ 100
> #C 1063-1731: Mr. Tambourine Man's BV is A$ 669
> #C 1732-1737: Rex Mundi's BV is A$ 6
> #C 1738-1743: ThinMan's BV is A$ 6
> #C 1744-1751: two-star's BV is A$ 8
> #C 1752-1816: Vynd's BV is A$ 65
> #C Roll A; 1-182
> #C Roll B; 1-10
> #C (A-1)*10+(B-1)
> #T Acka: Door Prize
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #305
*******************************