Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #292
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Sunday, August 30 1998        Volume 03 : Number 292

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Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:28:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, JT wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, David Scheidt wrote:
> >On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, JT wrote:
> >> No. the A$ is the entity.  The quantity of A$ (-1, or 10, or 100)
> >> different.  I own A$, therefore I may transfer it.  The part of the rule
> >> says nothing about the quantity of entities which may be transferred.
> >
> >"A" and "that" generally refer to singulars.
> 
> Even in that case, it works as a shorthand as Alfvaen described.  -1 is a
> singular quantity, and -3000 is 3000 applications of that -1.  I still
> haven't seen anything preventing the amount of an entity transferred from
> being a negative value.   I agree that it's counter-intuitive, but that
> doesn't necessarily make it impossible according to the rules.
Perhaps there is nothing to prevent transferring a negative quantity, but
the rule does prevent transfering an entity that you don't own. So before
you attempt to transfer -3000 A$ you should be able to show that you in
fact own -3000 A$.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:35:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Oars (rufus)

Rufus has found the Great Oars of Ackanomic this week.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, JT wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> >Transferring A$ is regulated by the Rules.  The Rules do not allow you
> >to transfer "N" A$ as a single action; they define A$ as gift entities,
> >and allow _a_ gift entity to be transferred, and game custom allowed you
> >to do this many times at once without typing them all in.  (And "-1 A$"
> >is not _an_ entity.  It is the lack of an entity.)
> 
> That is the crux of the discussion.   I'm not sure that is true.  If that
> was the case, then the negatively valued trinkets could not have been
> created either.

The rulings on negative trinkets were never resolved in a satisfactory
manner.  The CFJ which checked whether or not they could have been created
was stomped on by the retroactive rule created by the Crisis Resolution
Document. 

Further, here the crucial question is the difference between "some or all"
of your Ackadollars, and "an entity".
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:51:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 150

This CSR was accepted without objection.

K2 wrote:

> I am issuing the following CSR numbered 150, LETSCON delimited which
> alters only the Ackanomic Lexicon:
> LETSCON
> Add forment and hrumph to the Ackanomic Lexicon
> LETSCON

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:51:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kelly Hubert Kelly <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:

I suggest that Shell#10 build a guardian Angel in MTM's possesion.

K 2

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Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:51:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: proposal

I think it would be better to repeal 1390.2 amend and renumber 1390.3 - we need
a momento of /dev/joe's win after all :) - and either lager  should be
additionally defined as Royal or regal should be made a rule defined
synonym....

K 2

JT wrote:

> #submit proposal Cleaning up Frinks
> Amend rule 1390.2 with the following text as delimited by CLEANUP
> CLEANUP
> Royal Frinks are those defined as either Royal or Regal.
>
> Lager, sir, is regal.
> Whiskey is a Royal Frink.
> Cider is a Royal Frink.
> Vodka is a Royal Frink.
> CLEANUP
>
> Repeal rule 1390.3
> #end proposal
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:51:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Action Retraction

JT wrote:

> I retract CFJ 650 (the CWCFJ which I submitted today).
>
> After some private discussions (in addition to the public ones :) I see
> where there might be some leeway, but probably not as much as I was trying
> to abuse.   I believe that consensus is that what I attempted was
> impossible, and thus did not occur.
>
> And, there is no sense in practicing (too much) sadonecrohippofilia.

beating a dead hippo which enjoys it (being beaten)?

>
>
> --JT
>
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: IRC

Anyone up for IRC?

MTM.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:56:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Action Retraction

On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, K2 wrote:
>> After some private discussions (in addition to the public ones :) I see
>> where there might be some leeway, but probably not as much as I was trying
>> to abuse.   I believe that consensus is that what I attempted was
>> impossible, and thus did not occur.
>>
>> And, there is no sense in practicing (too much) sadonecrohippofilia.
>
>beating a dead hippo which enjoys it (being beaten)?

the enjoyment of beating a dead horse actually :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:59:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: proposal

On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, K2 wrote:
>I think it would be better to repeal 1390.2 amend and renumber 1390.3 - we need
>a momento of /dev/joe's win after all :) - and either lager  should be
>additionally defined as Royal or regal should be made a rule defined
>synonym....

I did define it (well by defining a Royal Frink as either Royal or Regal).
And I kept a momento of /dev/joe's win by moving the wording into the rule
explicitly.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:31:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Otzma stuff

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////////////
I am initiating an auction for my Foul Fowl Otzma Card, minimum bid A$25.
/////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I am wearing the shades of chorg.  I am reading my spell book of chorg,
page 1.  I choose the otzma card map shard.

I am using my newly-created Otzma Card Map Shard, naming Mr Tambourine Man
and treasure 122.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:31:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Historian

> Which reminds me since saaremmaa (there is a reason I always refer
> to em a Malenkai) called for an end to this banna republic we don't
> have a historian.

Not true at all. We had a Nomination; I was Count Tabula at the time.
saaremaa left the game before the Nomination was over, leaving me as
the only volunteer for the position, so I was automatically given the
Office.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:44:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

>>> No. the A$ is the entity.  The quantity of A$ (-1, or 10, or 100)
>>> different.  I own A$, therefore I may transfer it.  The part of the rule
>>> says nothing about the quantity of entities which may be transferred.
>>
>>"A" and "that" generally refer to singulars.
> 
> Even in that case, it works as a shorthand as Alfvaen described.

Alfvaen also noted that "a player owning -A$30" is shorthand for a
player owing A$30 to the Treasury. Therefore, "JT gifting -A$3000 to
/dev/joe" is likewise "shorthand" for "JT receiving A$3000 from
/dev/joe", an action which the rules do not permit JT to initiate.

Or, to put it at another way, the rules do not permit transfers of
"debt" entities, only Ackadollar entities.

The negatively-valued trinkets CFJ dealt with the kinds of *value* a
player could give a trinket. Specifying a valuation to be negative
isn't quite the same as specifying a negative amount of entities to be
transferred. It's very close, I'll grant you that; but the strength of
game custom (and spirit of the game) would probably tip the scales
away from the scammable interpretation, had the CFJ been left to
stand.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: List of Nominees for Silver Moon

The Senate has agreed to the following list of Nominees for the Silver
Moon:

The Gingham Wearer's YORL poem (play of "irrigate")
 http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/subgames/yorl2.html

K 2's P2790 "No Cigar" (The palindrome proposal)
 http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/acka/props/prop2800.html#P2790

JT's Phoebe wisdom which said MTM's shoes were blue
 http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/entity/phoebe.html#BM84

Attila the Pun's Treasure 207 (Mu-Cow)
 http://home.connexus.net.au/~kii/treasure/treasure.htm#207

Agreed to by:
/dev/joe
Calvin N Hobbes
Rex Mundi
Slakko

This is the report of the Commission d'Arts.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:19:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Moooving

I leave the AIoGR with my new boon of additional pointy ears, and I head
over to the senate building, where I mention to slakko that he was right
that I forgot his ale, and then stand there passing out lists of silver
moon candidates to every ackan who walks by.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:23:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Moooving

On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>I leave the AIoGR with my new boon of additional pointy ears, and I head
>over to the senate building, where I mention to slakko that he was right
>that I forgot his ale, and then stand there passing out lists of silver
>moon candidates to every ackan who walks by.

I visit the senate, so that I can get a wonderful list of nominees.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:31:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Order of the Razor Boomerangs.

I suggest that the order of the Razor Boomerangs use it's secret lab to
build a Spellbook of Chorg in my possession.

If Joe Java agrees, then this action will occur as all priests who are
active players will have at that time agreed.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Vulcan acts

I suggest Vulcan use their secret lab to create a spell book of chorg in my
possession.  I approve this.  ThinMan is proxied so if Vynd approves this
happens.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:41:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: Rex Mundi
# This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
# A Spellbook of Chorg.
# The determination is made according to the following table
# A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
#  -    Go Fish                 (at max instance)
#  1    Map Shard
#  -    Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
#  2    Rod & Staff
#  3    Share My Expenses
#  4    Share Your Income
#  -    Swinging Sale           (at max instance)
#  5    Tactical Retreat
#  6    Paratroop
#  -    Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
#  7    Truthseeker
#  -    Fix My Gadget           (at max instance)
#  8    Art Thief
#  9    Skeleton Key
# 10    Artic Explorer
# 11    Lay Off!
# 12    Founder's Boon
# 13    Roulette Wheel
# 14    Shield
# 15    ACME InstaGadget
# 16    Felicitous Populi

No. of sides on every die:     16
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     16

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Sun Aug 30 14:41:10 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id OAA10628 for <[email-masked]>; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:41:10 -0700
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma010597; Sun Aug 30 14:41:00 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA22115
>       for <[email-masked]>; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:41:09 -0700
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: SBOC
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #T Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination
> #S 16
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> 
> #C Player: Rex Mundi
> #C This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
> #C A Spellbook of Chorg.
> #C The determination is made according to the following table
> #C A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
> #C
> #C  - Go Fish                 (at max instance)
> #C  1 Map Shard
> #C  - Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
> #C  2 Rod & Staff
> #C  3 Share My Expenses
> #C  4 Share Your Income
> #C  - Swinging Sale           (at max instance)
> #C  5 Tactical Retreat
> #C  6 Paratroop
> #C  - Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
> #C  7 Truthseeker
> #C  - Fix My Gadget           (at max instance)
> #C  8 Art Thief
> #C  9 Skeleton Key
> #C 10 Artic Explorer
> #C 11 Lay Off!
> #C 12 Founder's Boon
> #C 13 Roulette Wheel
> #C 14 Shield
> #C 15 ACME InstaGadget
> #C 16 Felicitous Populi
> 
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:10:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Vulcan acts

On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> I suggest Vulcan use their secret lab to create a spell book of chorg in my
> possession.  I approve this.  ThinMan is proxied so if Vynd approves this
> happens.
> 
> /dev/joe
> 

Ah what the hey, I approve.

Vynd

[email-masked]

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End of ackanomic digest V3 #292
*******************************