Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #281
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Sunday, August 23 1998        Volume 03 : Number 281

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:19:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Grey Council

>It's new.
>We stand between the darkness and the light.
>Between the candle and the star.
>Religious, Warrior and Worker.
>The space in the middle is left for the one who will be.

<ferocious warrior look>

Enough prophesies! We require deeds!

Calvin Neroon Hobbes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:30:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Grey Council

><ferocious warrior look>

Has anyone (else but me and Robert Sev... Tin Observer) seen "Smoke Signals"?

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Challenge (Vynd)

> However according to 4a, it's not permissible to actually challenge
> an untouchable player, but a player with the highlander's sword is
> not untouchable (or so I tried) Hrmm.... However, it might be the
> case that this precedence might not work.  According to the
> blueprint rule suite all blue prints defer to all other rules.
> However, I tried to claim explicit precedence in a blueprint which
> thus conflicted with the Blueprint Suite Rule and therefore loses
> (lower number rule), so it's actually possible that a Highlander
> sword cannot actually force a player to be untouchable.

Okay, everybody, watch how this works:

1. Rules 594.28 and 1215 conflict on whether Vynd is currently
   Untouchable. We refer to Rule 102.

2. Rule 102 requires us to first answer the question: Do the rules
   (other than Rule 102) unambiguously specify how precedence between
   the two is to be determined?

3. The answer is: No. The rules that apply here are 594 and 594.28.
   Rule 594 says that 1215 wins over 594.28, and Rule 594.28 says that
   it wins over 1215.

4. Therefore, we ignore claims of precedence and apply the numerical
   method instead. So, 594.28 does indeed have precedence over 1215.

Therefore, Vynd is not currently Untouchable.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:52:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quirpele of Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

> The Spelling Bee is flying!

Actually, it isn't. The subject line doesn't conform to the
requirements of Rule 342. Sorry.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:35:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Challenge (Vynd)

On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, JT wrote:

> However according to 4a, it's not permissible to actually challenge an
> untouchable player, but a player with the highlander's sword is not
> untouchable (or so I tried)  Hrmm.... However, it might be the case that

Wasn't Ramirez one of the Untouchables?

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:36:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka : SwingPoint conversion 

I am converting four of my Swingpoint into a Bonus Vote

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Challenge (Vynd)

On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> Okay, everybody, watch how this works:
> 
> 1. Rules 594.28 and 1215 conflict on whether Vynd is currently
>    Untouchable. We refer to Rule 102.
> 
> 2. Rule 102 requires us to first answer the question: Do the rules
>    (other than Rule 102) unambiguously specify how precedence between
>    the two is to be determined?
> 
> 3. The answer is: No. The rules that apply here are 594 and 594.28.
>    Rule 594 says that 1215 wins over 594.28, and Rule 594.28 says that
>    it wins over 1215.
> 
> 4. Therefore, we ignore claims of precedence and apply the numerical
>    method instead. So, 594.28 does indeed have precedence over 1215.

Doesn't this last step ignore 594, which has been mentioned earlier?

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:56:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Grey Council

On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Thierry Joffrain wrote:

> >It's new.
> >We stand between the darkness and the light.
> >Between the candle and the star.
> >Religious, Warrior and Worker.
> >The space in the middle is left for the one who will be.
> 
> <ferocious warrior look>
> 
> Enough prophesies! We require deeds!

I have given you deeds!  In Valen's name you have denigrated us for a
thousand years, but now I say enough!

S Lennier Akko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:46:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Eleusis Game 1 - Round 2 - 867-5309's play

This seems as good a time to do this as any:

I leave the game of Eleusis of which I am a member.

I leave the game of YORL of which I am a member.  Anyone who wishes my
seat is welcome to it.

I declare the game of Word Un-Association which I am refereeing moribund.

I proxy my approval to the Razor Boomerangs, the Order of the Razor
Boomerang, the AVPP, the Treasure-Hunting League, Kerplunk, Kerplunk III,
the Church of the GBS, the Church of the Reincarnated Markovian Dream, and
the Twits.

I gift an Otzma Card Lay Off! to K 2.

I gift the trinket known as "$100" to Slakko; a memento of failed campaign
promises.

I aim my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at
IdiotBoy, press the red button marked "ENERGIZE," and supply the anagram
"Oy, I Bi Bot." (This is what I get for perusing the P/E page.)

I gift "The Gods of Lame" to the Twits.

I go to the Library.  I play "Mexico" by either Jimmy Buffett or James
Taylor on the ASS.  I give an evil glare to JT for refusing to record its
being played due to ambiguity.  (That was a preemptive glare.  I have a
whole bag of glares with your name on them.)

I return to my home.

I read the currently open page of my Spell Book of Chorg, if I can.
Whether I can or not, I offer it (the SBoC) to JT.

I retract Proposal 3475, "Forgers in my Cup."  That's what I get for
submitting a beta test version. (It won't work, in case you've noticed.)

I bury all my tradeable entities as a Treasure with a map resembling the
following:  "This Treasure shall be found by the player whose every public
message during 867-5309's absence satisfies the conditions for being Hosed
by a BWG Laser; or, e can transfer A$79 to 867-5309 for each message which
does not meet those criteria."

I then go on vacation, expected return date 20 October.  Or so.  (If that
fails, I go on vacation with an expected duration of 69 days, a nice, uh,
round number.)

- - 867-5309, wondering if eir .sig generator is mocking em

Hi, I'm a necrophiliac. How well can you play dead? 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:10:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Challenge (Vynd)

>> 1. Rules 594.28 and 1215 conflict on whether Vynd is currently
>>    Untouchable. We refer to Rule 102.
>> 
>> 2. Rule 102 requires us to first answer the question: Do the rules
>>    (other than Rule 102) unambiguously specify how precedence between
>>    the two is to be determined?
>> 
>> 3. The answer is: No. The rules that apply here are 594 and 594.28.
>>    Rule 594 says that 1215 wins over 594.28, and Rule 594.28 says that
>>    it wins over 1215.
>> 
>> 4. Therefore, we ignore claims of precedence and apply the numerical
>>    method instead. So, 594.28 does indeed have precedence over 1215.
> 
> Doesn't this last step ignore 594, which has been mentioned earlier?

Ignore what? Rule 594 has absolutely nothing to say on whether Vynd is
currently Untouchable. All Rule 594 does here is set a chain of
precedence between *other* rules, or tries to. Rule 102, however,
ignores its suggestions as far as this issue is concerned.

Let's take a closer look at Rule 102. The first sentence reads:

  If two or more rules other than this one conflict about a particular
  issue, and if the rules other than this one (and not restricted to
  the conflicting rules) specify a single, coherent, unambiguous
  method for resolving the conflict then that method is applied to
  determine which rule or rules take precedence with regard to that
  issue.

Note the parenthetical clause which allows rules other than the
conflicting ones to determine rule precedence. That is how Rule 594
manages to get involved at all. But, seeing as how this sentence's
conditional is false, we leave it and pass on to the next sentence:

  Otherwise, wherever the rules conflict on a particular issue, the
  rule with the lowest number among those rules which conflict on that
  issue shall guide play with regard to that issue.

Note that in this sentence, what other rules may have to say about
issues of precedence are not longer in the picture. Only the original
conflicting rules are considered.

(I imagine some wiseacre who wasn't around for Guy Fawkes'
Rule-1-paradox-win attempt is about to point out that Rules 594 and
594.28 are also in conflict - or in meta-conflict, really - over the
matter of whether Rule 594.28 takes precedence over 1215, and so Rule
594 should take precedence there, thus causing Rule 1215 to take
precedence on the original conflict. I remind any such persons that in
that meta-conflict those two rules are also in conflict with Rule 102,
and that while Rule 102 specifically exempts itself from consideration
where its first sentence applies, it does not when it comes down to
the second sentence, which enforces numerical precedence. And so Rule
102 wins the meta-conflict, thus causing Rule 594.28 to win the
original conflict. If anyone in the peanut gallery is still not
convinced, I invite them to read CFJ 461 in its entirety before
initiating any heckling.)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 644 (TRUE)

867-5309 has ruled this TRUE without reasoning.

Call for Judgement 644 - August 22, 1998
Subject: Happy Number Timing
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent 22 Aug 1998, 00:04 Acka)
Judge: 867-5309 (selected 22 Aug 1998, 04:21 Acka)
Verdict: TRUE

Statement:

The Happy Number is 105.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

My score was 101 when I posted "Happy! Happy! Happy!", because my attempt
at converting Swingpoints to points was thwarted by a change in the Rules.

Rule 1131, "Happiness", states:

   If any time it is publically knowable that a player has a score
   exactly equal to the Happy Number, that player may point this fact out
   by publically stating: "Happy! Happy! Happy!". E then gains a
   probabilistic Boon of the Ancients and the Happy Number becomes a
   random integer between -60 and the Magic Number.

When my score was not 105, then it was not publicly knowable that my
score was exactly to the Happy Number(which was 105 at the time).  Thus,
I was unable to "point that fact out" at the time..

This would mean that I didn't get that valuable Automatic Sculpture, either.

Judge's Reasoning:

[none]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:44:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Challenge (Vynd)

On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:
[question and explanation deleted]

>Therefore, Vynd is not currently Untouchable.

Thank you.   As you can see, I am not always able to figure out rule
precedence.  I'm glad at least someone is in fact able to.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:45:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Spelling Bee

Okay, let's try this again...

The Quirpele of Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is flying!

In Rule 207.1, "That's just silly", "all quoted instance" -> "All quoted instances"

In Rule 212, "Selecting A Judge", "Acvtive" -> "Active"

In Rule 251, "Player Names", "Registar" -> "Registrar"

In Rule 251.1, "True Names", "aquire" -> "acquire"

In Rule 399, "Remembrance Day", add a period to final sentence

In Rule 416, "Supreme Court", "eliglible" -> "eligible"

In Rule 423, "Map-Harfer", "ocurance" -> "occurrence"(twice);
"priviliges" -> "privileges"

In Rule 432, "Son I am able though you scare me / Watch beloved / Watch me
scare you though / Able am I son", "forment" -> "foment"

In Rule 500.2, "Entity Ownership", "sentance" -> "sentence"

In Rule 501, "ExtraNomic Entities", "recieves" -> "receives"(twice)

In Rule 541, "Characteristic Tests", "proceedure" -> "procedure"

In Rule 550.1, "Honourable Acts", "Recieving" -> "Receiving"(twice)

In Rule 550.2, "Dishonourable Acts", "Repeatble" -> "Repeatable"

In Rule 670, "Commission d'Arts", "if a active" -> "if an active"

In Rule 801, "Geography", "permited" -> "permitted"

In Rule 820, "Land", "seperate" -> "separate"; "refered" -> "referred";
"coordiantes" -> "coordinates"

In Rule 847, "Earthquakes", "occured" -> "occurred"

In Rule 933, "Purple Robe of Justice", "recieves" -> "receives"

In Rule 950, "Ackanomic Sound System Rule Suite", "Priveleges" -> "Privileges"

In Rule 1017, "Trusts", "existance" -> "existence"

In Rule 1031, "Grey Council", "immeadiately" -> "immediately"

In Rule 1040, "Party Hall", "in the Treasure" -> "in the Treasury"

In Rule 1240.50, "Otzma Card of Type Shield", "existance" -> "existence"

In Rule 1250.23, "Eleusis", "substitue" -> "substitute", "referree" ->
"referee", "Referree" -> "Referee"
[ Though there doesn't seem much point because one of JT's Proposals
is going to put them right back anyway ]

In Rule 1301, "Church", "anouncement" -> "announcement" (twice);
"implicity" -> "implicitly"; "Organizatioanl" -> "Organizational";
"memebr" -> "member"; "memebrs" -> "members"

In Rule 1350, "La Luna", "recieve" -> "receive"

In Rule 1351, "Mooning", "recieve" -> "receive"

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Ultravox:Vienna
Current Book--S.M. Stirling:Marching Through Georgia
"If you ever have a world, plan ahead.  _Don't_ eat it!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:59:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Eleusis Game 1 - Round 2 - 867-5309's play

On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Eric Plumb wrote:
>I leave the game of Eleusis of which I am a member.

Unlike Alfvaen, I am going to harf this as your hand being played by a
bot from here on.  Anyone who wishes to take 867-5309's place in this game
is welcome to do so.

>I go to the Library.  I play "Mexico" by either Jimmy Buffett or James
>Taylor on the ASS.  I give an evil glare to JT for refusing to record its
>being played due to ambiguity.  (That was a preemptive glare.  I have a
>whole bag of glares with your name on them.)

This action doesn't occur because it was in fact ambiguous (in my
estimation).  I disregard the preemptive glare.

>I read the currently open page of my Spell Book of Chorg, if I can.
>Whether I can or not, I offer it (the SBoC) to JT.

I accept the Spell Book of Chorg from 867-5309 (and will generate his
random OC in a few moments).

>I bury all my tradeable entities as a Treasure with a map resembling the
>following:  "This Treasure shall be found by the player whose every public
>message during 867-5309's absence satisfies the conditions for being Hosed
>by a BWG Laser; or, e can transfer A$79 to 867-5309 for each message which
>does not meet those criteria."

I cower and hide from the possible deluge of bad poetry. :)

>I then go on vacation, expected return date 20 October.  Or so.  (If that
>fails, I go on vacation with an expected duration of 69 days, a nice, uh,
>round number.)

So acknowledge.  I believe the first designation of October 20, holds
sway.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:01:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: JT <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: 867-5309
# This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
# A Spellbook of Chorg.
# The determination is made according to the following table
# A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
#  -    Go Fish                 (at max instance)
#  1    Map Shard
#  -    Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
#  2    Rod & Staff
#  3    Share My Expenses
#  4    Share Your Income
#  -    Swinging Sale           (at max instance)
#  5    Tactical Retreat
#  6    Paratroop
#  -    Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
#  7    Truthseeker
#  -    Fix My Gadget           (at max instance)
#  8    Art Thief
#  9    Skeleton Key
# 10    Artic Explorer
# 11    Lay Off!
# 12    Founder's Boon
# 13    Roulette Wheel
# 14    Shield
# 15    ACME InstaGadget
# 16    Felicitous Populi

No. of sides on every die:     16
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      2

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/

=================================================
             ** NewHoo Web Directory **
    An army of editors surfing the web for you!
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=================================================

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Sun Aug 23 10:00:57 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id KAA20334 for <[email-masked]>; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:00:57 -0700
> Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma020326; Sun Aug 23 10:00:49 1998
> Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost)
>       by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA19641
>       for <[email-masked]>; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:00:51 -0700
> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JT <[email-masked]>
> To: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #T Acka: SBoC Random Otzma Card determination
> #S 16
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> 
> #C Player: 867-5309
> #C This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading a page in
> #C A Spellbook of Chorg.
> #C The determination is made according to the following table
> #C A value of - means that card cannot be selected for some reason.
> #C
> #C  - Go Fish                 (at max instance)
> #C  1 Map Shard
> #C  - Summon Tornado          (at max instance)
> #C  2 Rod & Staff
> #C  3 Share My Expenses
> #C  4 Share Your Income
> #C  - Swinging Sale           (at max instance)
> #C  5 Tactical Retreat
> #C  6 Paratroop
> #C  - Foul Fowl               (at max instance)
> #C  7 Truthseeker
> #C  - Fix My Gadget           (at max instance)
> #C  8 Art Thief
> #C  9 Skeleton Key
> #C 10 Artic Explorer
> #C 11 Lay Off!
> #C 12 Founder's Boon
> #C 13 Roulette Wheel
> #C 14 Shield
> #C 15 ACME InstaGadget
> #C 16 Felicitous Populi
> 
> 
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:29:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Spelling Bee

> In Rule 432, "Son I am able though you scare me / Watch beloved /
> Watch me scare you though / Able am I son", "forment" -> "foment"

Awww - I actually kind of liked that one....

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Spelling Bee

> > In Rule 432, "Son I am able though you scare me / Watch beloved /
> > Watch me scare you though / Able am I son", "forment" -> "foment"

> Awww - I actually kind of liked that one....

Well, you're welcome to add "forment" to the Ackanomic Lexicon...:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Pat Benatar:Lift 'Em On Up
Current Book--S.M. Stirling:Marching Through Georgia
You never told me about the hamster in your hair.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Spelling Bee

On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > > In Rule 432, "Son I am able though you scare me / Watch beloved /
> > > Watch me scare you though / Able am I son", "forment" -> "foment"
> 
> > Awww - I actually kind of liked that one....
> 
> Well, you're welcome to add "forment" to the Ackanomic Lexicon...:-)

I misplled that on purpose.  Well, I left it in on purpose.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:39:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Grey Council

I am hereby announcing the start of an election for the Grey Council. You
may reply to nominate yourself for one of the 9 available seats. It would
also be helpful if you could tell me what caste you are a member of, but
that isnot 100% necessary.

MTM, Count Tabula.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:39:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Thrall Master

I am calling an election fo rthe office of thrall master. You may reply to
nominate yourself.

MTM, Count Tabula.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:44:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Thrall Master

At 18:39 23/08/98 -0400, I wrote:
>I am calling an election fo rthe office of thrall master. You may reply to
>nominate yourself.

D'oh!! I just realised that Thrall Master is not only a Functional Office
but K 2 had already called a nomination. I donate A$3 to the twits.

MTM.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #281
*******************************