Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #260
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest       Wednesday, August 5 1998       Volume 03 : Number 260

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 00:01:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Pool points and Thralls

I would like to say that I would favor either of the two proposals
currently being discussed for revamping the 'scoring' system.  I think
they could even be made to work together if that's what people decide
should be the case.   Regardless of the result of the anti-voting proposal
currently under consideration, I'm glad it came up because it seems that
out of it, we might remold some of the face of Acka, and I think that
change is good.

I actually had been thinking about something based on the characteristics
system Alfvaen recently proposed as well.

And the thrall system could tie into something I had in mind a while back
(and which I mailed Alfvaen about at that time) based on the Herald stuff
and the Honour system I instituted which might be another way to do the
thralls stuff.  To give a brief and WAY overbroad summary, it would have
gotten rid of political parties and replaced them with a 'fuedal'
structure based on Honour whereby a person could 'control/influence'
people through Honour and Fueds (between Feudalities) and eventually 'win'
by becoming 'King'.  If enough people think this would actually be
fun/interesting, I'll try and write up an RFC for it (though I'll probably
wait until after the scoring system changes).

I would appreciate initial comments of 'Hey that sounds good' or 'Man,
what drug are you smoking, cause that sucks' or whatever.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 00:45:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Giants

> >I request membership in They Might Be Slumbering Giants.

> >ThinMan

> I certainly have no problem with this.
> Harf, it's a miracle that I saw this message, so slumbering a giant am I.

If it is not the case that TMBSG has the Communist-thing where any
member can grant admission, then I support ThinMan's admission, and
also suggest that we do that.  Um, adopt "Communist Single Player"
membership style admission thing.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Sarah McLachlan:Rarities, B-Sides, & Other Stuff
Current Book--Stephen King:The Mouse On The Mile
There's a jelly baby floating in my Earl Grey!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 02:27:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Gingham Dress

I purchase the Gingham Dress owned by else...if for A$20.
I don it.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 04:25:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Swing!

Swingpoints awarded on 3rd August:

I. Weight Swingpoints

6: Niccolo Flychuck
5: Koxvolio
4: Slakko
4: J. M. Bear
2: /dev/joe
1: JT

II. Party Swingpoints
Winning Party: HARF

1: Tin Observer
1: Calvin N Hobbes
1: Karma

III. Game Swingpoints

2: Alfvaen

Totals - ask K 2.

Yours,
Slakko

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 05:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: Repealing Points

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Towsner wrote:

> 	No no no.  What I think, and what (correct me if I'm wrong) Niccolo
> is saying is that we need to get rid of points entirely, including the
> rewards and penalties, and let new systems evolve to deal with them.

That's exactly what I was saying.  The RFC appears to be technically
sound. But if we just unplug one thing and immediately plug in another,
then we have changed very little. 

Niccolo Flychuck

 >	Note that some penalties need to be kept (I'm thinking specifically
> of changing crime penalties) but the rest should be gotten rid of and
> replaced later as problems arise.

> 
> - --
> - -Henry Towsner
> 
> 	<[email-masked]>
> 
> 	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
> enjoy it.
> 		-Logan Pearsall Smith
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 05:15:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: Repealing Points

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Matt Miller wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Towsner wrote:
> 
> > 	I'm not sure that this isn't a repeal of points.  You've really
> > destroyed points and created a new primary currency.  However I like it.
> > Perhaps players could put in different amounts of points on a proposal,so
> > it would become like a betting pool.  It wouldn't increase the value of
> > your vote, but it would increase the profits (potentially).  Instead of
> > modest and grandiose proposals it would just be the number of points you
> > put into it.
> > 
> 
> Well, it pretty much is a repeal of points. I still call them points, cos
> it's fun for me.  My thing was, tho that Niccolo wants them excised then
> wait to see what grows up.. I would merely plug in this version of points
> then see what happened.
> 
> Your suggestion about voting reminds me of Malenkai's fuzzy voting
> scheme.. even tho you specifcally ask us not to think that way.. maybe it
> would be fun.. extra votes for the point wealthy!  If you did it right,
> you would naturally disincent abuse.
> 

This sounds interesting and different enough,for me not to vote against it
- - if someone submits such a proposal. 

Niccolo Flychuck

> IB 
> dumb as a box of hammers
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 06:20:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Schmidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Speaker

Who is the new Speaker, and does that mean either
Presidency or one Senate seat is vacant now?
JMB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 06:20:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Schmidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Questions

Once again, is the world cubical now?
And why am I listed as having my support proxied
to the Razor Boomerangs?
If I have my support proxied to any organization,
I hereby stop this proxy support.

J. M. Bear

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 07:14:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Pool points and Thralls

>I would appreciate initial comments of 'Hey that sounds good' or 'Man,
>what drug are you smoking, cause that sucks' or whatever.

Well, I think the former if it's any use to you.

Brie Clump.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 07:14:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Tabula Stuff

First off, the election for Speaker was won by JT. If anyone's sadistical
enough to want be to haul through the logs of three different mail programs
to determine the exact results then I will do.

Next off is RuneMaker. Nominees are:

JT
Brie Clump.

You may reply to vote.

fianlly I am announcing my intent to resign as Clerk of the Court. Like
Alfvaen's recent resignation from Speakership I feel that you deserve
someone hwo's going to do a good job. I believe that this means you should
nominate yourself for that office to K 2 and that after the end of the
nomination the office goes straight from me to whoever occupies it next
with no acting officer. Or something like that.

If I can't do anything like that then I just resign now.

Likewise, if whoever takes over as CotC (or anyone else for that matter)
wishes to take over the CFJ archives then that'd be great. I will keep on
doing them if people want me to but feel I'm doing such a woeful job that
it would bebetter if someone else did it.

Brie Clump, Count Tabula, CotC (for now) and no longer acting Speaker.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:05:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: Acka: Big Blue Failure

>>I awake from my torpor and point my RBBTTDDTMR (which, incidentally, is a
>>delightful shade of azure today) at Eric Plumb and press the button marked
>>'ENERGIZE', thus changing eir name to B. Rice Lump.
>
>Fortunately, I don't think that this has any effect since Eric Plumb is no
>longer an unambiguous reference to anyone. It is my former Ackanomic name
>and the real name of another player and so it is not clear who it is
>refering to.
>
>Brie Clump.

I realised that about five minutes after i attempted to use the big blue thing
(etc) when I read Alfvaen's post that did what I intended to do.

There's a lesson to be learnt there.

Anyway, I now point my RBBTTDTTMR at Brie Clump, press the button marked
energize and change eir name to Bruce Limp. Since it is less than so long since
I last tried to use the blue thing, it should cause it to break down, blow up,
whatever. Just in case it doesn't, I again point it at Brie Clump and press the
button marked energize to change eir name to Bile Crump, which should well and
truly break it. If, in fact, my previous attempt worked, and there is now a
player called Bruce Limp, I point the RBBTTDDTMR at em, press the energize
button and change eir name to C. Plier Bum.

If that doesn't break it, I kick it until it falls to bits.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:10:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Pool points and Thralls

>I would appreciate initial comments of 'Hey that sounds good' or 'Man,
>what drug are you smoking, cause that sucks' or whatever.
	I vote "Hey that sounds good"  Come to think of it, my EBS does too:)
	I also like both, and agree that there's no real reason they can't
be combined.  Does anyone have any comments on my Pool Point RFC.  (By the
way, I left out the following at the very beginning:

{{
All points are destroyed.  All players receive 1000/(number of players)
points rounded down.  If there are fewer than 1000 total points, the extras
are distributed randomly such that no player receives more than one.
}}

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: Acka: AVPP

I think the AVPP now has enough members to be official. They are:

Idiot Boy
Atilla the Pun
K2
Tom Walmsley

I'm not sure if I need to pay the A$300 as has been suggested, since I'm not
actually transforming a society into a political party, and I specified from
the start that I was forming a political party, not a society.

However, if it can be proved that I need to pay the A$300, then I shall do so.

>I suggest that the AVPP append to the manifesto:
>
>Moreover, should the concept of anti-voting ever be removed from this fair
>game of Ackanomic, the members of AVPP shall be constrained to vote on
>each and every proposal, especially those submitted by opponents of
>anti-voting, as if they (the members of AVPP) (well, the opponents can
>too, I suppose) were anti-voting and would gain points thereby.

I approve of this suggestion.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:23:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: Acka: AVPP

>I think the AVPP now has enough members to be official. They are:
>
>Idiot Boy
>Atilla the Pun
>K2
>Tom Walmsley

Ahem, and of course Ethelred.

>I'm not sure if I need to pay the A$300 as has been suggested, since I'm not
>actually transforming a society into a political party, and I specified from
>the start that I was forming a political party, not a society.

A quick scan of the rules suggests I only need to pay the standard Harfer's
fee, which I do.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:23:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: AVPP

>I think the AVPP now has enough members to be official. They are:
	Does the AVPP also oppose proposals which repeal anti-voting
incidentally, for instance one of the point-repeal proposals currently
being suggested?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
enjoy it.
		-Logan Pearsall Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Pool points and Thralls

In a message dated 05/08/98  12:16:21, you write:

> 
>  >I would appreciate initial comments of 'Hey that sounds good' or 'Man,
>  >what drug are you smoking, cause that sucks' or whatever.
>  	I vote "Hey that sounds good"  Come to think of it, my EBS does too:)

They both sound like reasonable ideas.

Robin Hood

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:26:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka RFC: Proposal - The Boring Word

Various folks wrote to say, basically, "Your proposal is well-formed, but
sucks." Good - that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. :-)

I'll continue to lob RFCs at the group as part of my learning process.
Meanwhile, I've learned that it doesn't pay to get sick and miss a day of
messages if I intend to stay current. Urgh...

Thanks,
Piz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:47:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

[Warning: contains resignation]

> Results of Proposal 3333

> 17/22 votes: Quorum achieved
> 14/22 YES votes: Proposal accepted

>     YES:
> Bonus Vote                              [/dev/joe used a Bonus Vote]
> Bonus Vote                              [Niccolo Flychuck used a Bonus Vote]
> Bonus Vote                              [Brie Clump used a Bonus Vote]
> Tammany                                 [JT bribed Tammany A$25]
>                                         [Brie Clump bribed Tammany A$112 (YES)]

I think that last time I saw this many Bonus Votes was shortly before the
Vulcan Party took power...

>     ABSTAINED:
> Calvin N Hobbes      (Harf)
> ThinMan              (Vulcan)
> IdiotBoy
> two-star
> Fortunato
> Bonus Vote                              [JT used a Bonus Vote]

I presume this means that this one got cancelled out?  :-)

> > Proposal 3333 - Tue 28 Jul 1998 10:44 EDT
> > If at first you don't succeed...
> > Mr. Tambourine Man (Tom Walmsley)

> > {{[Warning: Repeals antivoting]}}

I hereby announce my intention to resign as Scorekeeper.  It won't be
nearly as fun anymore.

> > All players who voted on any proposal receive one point.

Can anyone give me any reason to believe that this is not a one-time
effect?  I've voted on any Proposal, so I should receive one point, but
I believe Rule 110 would keep this from happening an infinite number of
times, so it only happens once.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Klaatu:True Life Hero
Current Book--Stephen King:The Mouse On The Mile
Slip me some more of that crimson, Jimson.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:52:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: AVPP

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, L'homme a tete de choux wrote:

> >I suggest that the AVPP append to the manifesto:
> >
> >Moreover, should the concept of anti-voting ever be removed from this fair
> >game of Ackanomic, the members of AVPP shall be constrained to vote on
> >each and every proposal, especially those submitted by opponents of
> >anti-voting, as if they (the members of AVPP) (well, the opponents can
> >too, I suppose) were anti-voting and would gain points thereby.
> 
> I approve of this suggestion.
> 
> Ethelred
> 

I approve, as well.
IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:54:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A new observer (fwd)

JT wrote:
[snip]
>>Piz, please note the change in your mentor due to me goofing as shown
>>above.
[snip]

So noted.

I accept Vynd as my new mentor, console else...if for his loss, and offer
the Splorke of Zorb to JT for his Florpitude. I also Skrend the Brozzle,
request membership in the Church of Pam Dawber, and harf three times in the
direction of rule 4893.

Sorry - got a little overzealous there...

Piz

P.S. Remember what it was like to be a newbie? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Giants

>> I certainly have no problem with this.
>> Harf, it's a miracle that I saw this message, so slumbering a giant am I.
>
>So slumbering, in fact, that you haven't noticed that your name was
>changed to Tin Observer.

Ha, those young upstarts. No respect for "Robert Sevin"... In my days...    ; )

Welcome ThinMan! (this is an implied approval if needed)

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Pizolato" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Intriguing Suggestion

>>>1. I think that 60% would be too low a figure and too easily obtainable.
>>>80% would probably be better. (Given that quite often players will submit
>>>many consecutive prposals.)
>> Agreed.  Maybe there should also be a maximum number of players you
>>can be enthralled to.
>>
>>>2. What would you propose as a penalty for a rejected proposal? A random
>>>player stops being in thrall to you maybe?
>> How about a random player who voted for it?

Would recursive thralldom be possible? Player A is in thrall to player B,
and player B is in thrall to player A, at the same time?

Piz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:08:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Duncan C. \"Slakko\" Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Intriguing Suggestion

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:

> >>>1. I think that 60% would be too low a figure and too easily obtainable.
> >>>80% would probably be better. (Given that quite often players will submit
> >>>many consecutive prposals.)
> >> Agreed.  Maybe there should also be a maximum number of players you
> >>can be enthralled to.
> >>
> >>>2. What would you propose as a penalty for a rejected proposal? A random
> >>>player stops being in thrall to you maybe?
> >> How about a random player who voted for it?
> 
> Would recursive thralldom be possible? Player A is in thrall to player B,
> and player B is in thrall to player A, at the same time?

Yes, that is entirely possible.  It is just a special case of a cycle, 
being a 2-cycle.

Now a note: The way I envisage it, you are in thrall to at most ONE
person at any one time.  This makes such cycles of thrall unlikely
but possible.  It also means that the 60% threshold is not that easy
to achieve - if you start to get too many people in thrall, other
proposers will target those people to try to reduce your influence at the
same time that they increase their own.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer - www.ackanomic.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:35:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Brie Clump.

I create a Trinket of value A$3 called Ez-Cheese, with the following
description:

"A can of cheese.  The label reads: '100% pure synthetic brie'"

I gift this trinket to Brie Clump in recognition of his recent spate of
repeal proporals which actually got me to go and vote.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:45:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: thrall questions (was Re: Acka: Intriguing Suggestion)

If player A is in thrall to player B, who is in turn in thrall to C, is A
in thrall to C?

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:49:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "else...if" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Map

(Sorry about the yahoo address.  I can't send mail through earthlink
from work.)

I was just looking at the map, and noticed a few minor errors.

First, the Stock Market is called the Ackan Reserve, and is only four
squares plus an undeveloped one.  Second, I believe I went to the top
floor of it some time ago (and don't plan to leave, since I could
never go back.)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: action

I leave where ever it is I am, and got to the libarry.  I play Theoloneous
S. Monk's "'Round Midnight" on the ASS.  ( one of the previously
unreleased versions on the complete Riverside recordings).  

Since I am there, I go to the *that* room.  

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:57:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: thrall questions (was Re: Acka: Intriguing Suggestion)

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, David Scheidt wrote:

> If player A is in thrall to player B, who is in turn in thrall to C, is A
> in thrall to C?

No.  
Each person would have a "thrall value", which would be the name of
another player, or the null string "".
The only thralls that count are direct ones.  These indirect ones don't
count because of the difficulty in dealing with cycles.  

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - Web-Harfer,RuneMaker,ChessUmpire,Map-Harfer - www.ackanomic.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:19:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Re: Acka: AVPP

>On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, L'homme a tete de choux wrote:
>
>> >I suggest that the AVPP append to the manifesto:
>> >
>> >Moreover, should the concept of anti-voting ever be removed from this fair
>> >game of Ackanomic, the members of AVPP shall be constrained to vote on
>> >each and every proposal, especially those submitted by opponents of
>> >anti-voting, as if they (the members of AVPP) (well, the opponents can
>> >too, I suppose) were anti-voting and would gain points thereby.
>>
>> I approve of this suggestion.
>>
>> Ethelred
>>
>
>I approve, as well.
>IB

So do I.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:48:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "else...if" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Point Pool RFC

>This is pretty cool.  I guess this was kinda hastily >written, and as
much as I believe in loose >construction.. this probably needs to be
tightened up >for an actual proposal.  I don't know if I like that 
   It was.  I'm just trying to get the idea across here.

>you get back all of your points.  The problem is that >a player with
9000 points could overwhelm all the >others who have only 400 each
(these are, in fact, >completely made up numbers, just like they
sound).. >There's no risk to the guy who does that, cos he'll
>assuredly get back his points when the voting is >completed.  (Plus
some, maybe?)
   I intentionally avoided weighted votes because it means the
tabulator needs to know how many points each player has.  In this
suggestion e doesn't.  However I think you're right about splitting up
the pool by percent.

>if this "bribe" fails.. perhaps the proposer gets >back 50% of his
poits if the proposal fails.  I know >it seems counter intuitive. 
   Actually if the proposer puts in a lot it encourages people to vote
AGAINST it.  What if we eliminate bribes, but let the proposer set how
much they get back if it succeeds, while guaranteeing half back if it
fails.  That way as a bribe a player could invest 100 points and not
take any of them out if it passes, but get half back if it fails.  The
rewards are higher for YES voters.

>We'll, of course need to make sure to give breadbox >fair warning
(I'd say 2 weeks) if this were to come >into existence.)
   Before I made the actual proposal, I'd like breadbox to request a
time frame (or just say "this is infeasible", in which case I wouldn't
propose it.)

>>[Null proposals]
>This seems reasonable, if you mean the pool of >votes.. the proposer
should forfeit his intial >investment. 
   I disagree. After all, it did pass.  The proposer shouldn't be
punished, just not rewarded.

>Hrmmm.. I thik they shouldn't lose all the points.. >otherwise they
won't ever retract.. i always thought >retarction was the wusses way
out anyway.. so I'd be >infavor of a complete removal.
   There are legitimate reasons to retract.  Perhaps only losing 1/4
the points invested (half a failure)

>I think this needs to be worked on a bit.. what we >need is a way to
prevent obvious abuse (all the SHEEP >decide to transfer their points
to Slakko on Friday >to give him a win), without limiting large scale
>trade of REAL value.  I don't know how to solve that >exactly.
   A player who has more than 2/3 of the magic number may not receive
points in a trade, perhaps?

>Also, i think it is important that there is NO easy >way to get
points if you run out (an automatic >payment system or whatever)..  
   Agreed.  In this suggestion, you would have to beg them off of
someone.  You could still vote, but couldn't get any points from it. 
(Otherwise the Tabulator has to keep track of who has 0 points).

>> 	Replace the last sentence of the first >>paragraph of rule 901
(The Magic Potato) with "When >>a proposal made by the player who
currently holds >>the Magic Potato is accepted, e shall be treated as
>>if e invested 3 extra points for the purpose of >>distributing the
points of the players who voted NO."

>Ok.. these points have to come from somewhere.. the >Treasury?
   No.  There are no extra points, the proposer just gets a bonus when
taking things from the voting pool.  But I like your suggestion for
the pool anyway, so this will have to be handled differently.

>Probably just need a way to say "If a rule says lose >points it means
tranfer points to the treasury.  if >it says gain points it means get
points from the >treasury."
   In this proposal there was no way for points to get to the treasury.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:18:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Giants

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Thierry Joffrain wrote:

> >> I certainly have no problem with this.
> >> Harf, it's a miracle that I saw this message, so slumbering a giant am I.
> >
> >So slumbering, in fact, that you haven't noticed that your name was
> >changed to Tin Observer.
> 
> Ha, those young upstarts. No respect for "Robert Sevin"... In my days...    ; )
> 
> Welcome ThinMan! (this is an implied approval if needed)
> 
> CnH
> 

I create a trinket, valued at A$1, with the name Oil Can.  Its
description: A can of oil.

I then gift this to Tin Observer, leaving it just out of his reach.

                                  Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:18:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: Acka: voting schmoting

>Here is a first draft of a proposal to get rid of points entirely. What do
>you all think? I realise there is almost certainly something I've missed
>but... Any comments (even "I don't think you should get rid of points at
>all because...) would be welcome.

I intend to anti-vote on this proposal, i.e. I shall be voting yes on it.

You'll no doubt be pleased to know that soon I shall have a bit more time to
put to composing a few proposals myself, which you shall all be welcome to vote
on any way you wish.

Ethelred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:19:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Acka: nitpicking

I believe the name of my house is currently "Nameless Thing #1",
rather than being the full text of Jabberwocky.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:49:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: acka: thrall questions (was Re: Acka: Intriguing Suggestion)

In a message dated 05/08/98  15:58:43, you write:

> 
>  If player A is in thrall to player B, who is in turn in thrall to C, is A
>  in thrall to C?
>  
Preferably not. This makes things more interesting.
C can order B to give an order to C as long as its legal
for both C and B to do so.
 We can then have A in thrall to B in thrall to C in thrall to A.

Robin Hood

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Tabula Stuff

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:
>First off, the election for Speaker was won by JT. If anyone's sadistical
>enough to want be to haul through the logs of three different mail programs
>to determine the exact results then I will do.

I thank those who voted for me as Speaker.  I resign (if the rules didn't
automatically force me to do so) as Senator (which should give me a Blue
Cross Bonus and thus at least one more stripe).

>Next off is RuneMaker. Nominees are:
>JT
>Brie Clump.

I retract my nomination if possible for RuneMaker, or if I cannot,
encourage everyone to vote for Brie Clump.

I am willing to take on the office of CotC if no one else wishes to do so.
However, if someone else wishes to perform that office, I will be more
than happy to let them do so as well. (which is why I'm stating it
publically)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:32:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
>> Bonus Vote                              [/dev/joe used a Bonus Vote]
>> Bonus Vote                              [Niccolo Flychuck used a Bonus Vote]
>> Bonus Vote                              [Brie Clump used a Bonus Vote]
>> Tammany                                 [JT bribed Tammany A$25]
>>                                         [Brie Clump bribed Tammany A$112 (YES)]
>
>I think that last time I saw this many Bonus Votes was shortly before the
>Vulcan Party took power...
>
>>     ABSTAINED:
>> Calvin N Hobbes      (Harf)
>> ThinMan              (Vulcan)
>> IdiotBoy
>> two-star
>> Fortunato
>> Bonus Vote                              [JT used a Bonus Vote]
>
>I presume this means that this one got cancelled out?  :-)

I think this is erroneous, since I know I only used one bonus vote and
that I cast it for the proposal.   I still have the email records of my
mail to nomicbot if Breadbox needs to verify this.

>I hereby announce my intention to resign as Scorekeeper.  It won't be
>nearly as fun anymore.

I'm sorry to hear that Alfvaen.  I hope you'll reconsider.

>> > All players who voted on any proposal receive one point.
>
>Can anyone give me any reason to believe that this is not a one-time
>effect?  I've voted on any Proposal, so I should receive one point, but
>I believe Rule 110 would keep this from happening an infinite number of
>times, so it only happens once.

I believe it will trigger, as intended on each proposal.  However, I leave
that up to a CFJ to decide, and suggest someone fix the wording soon :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:34:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A new observer (fwd)

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Michael Pizolato wrote:
>I accept Vynd as my new mentor, console else...if for his loss, and offer
>the Splorke of Zorb to JT for his Florpitude. I also Skrend the Brozzle,
>request membership in the Church of Pam Dawber, and harf three times in the
>direction of rule 4893.

Egad, I think we've created a monster :)

>Sorry - got a little overzealous there...

Heh :)

>P.S. Remember what it was like to be a newbie? ;-)

Yup, since I'm only a few acka-months old myself (having joined the game
at the end of march (the 30th))

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:35:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, JT wrote:

> >>     ABSTAINED:
> >> Calvin N Hobbes      (Harf)
> >> ThinMan              (Vulcan)
> >> IdiotBoy
> >> two-star
> >> Fortunato
> >> Bonus Vote                              [JT used a Bonus Vote]
> >
> >I presume this means that this one got cancelled out?  :-)
> 
> I think this is erroneous, since I know I only used one bonus vote and
> that I cast it for the proposal.   I still have the email records of my
> mail to nomicbot if Breadbox needs to verify this.

At most 4 Bonus Votes can have an effect on each proposal.  I believe it
is only the last 4 that count (although I could be wrong).
Yours was the 5th Bonus Vote on the list.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - Web-Harfer,RuneMaker,ChessUmpire,Map-Harfer - www.ackanomic.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:47:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: action

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, David Scheidt wrote:
>I leave where ever it is I am, and got to the libarry.  I play Theoloneous
>S. Monk's "'Round Midnight" on the ASS.  ( one of the previously
>unreleased versions on the complete Riverside recordings).  

This does not occur as we are in a Moment of Silence until Sunday.

>Since I am there, I go to the *that* room.  

I'll deal with this shortly as soon as I get a) through my email and 
b) find the scripts for dealing with the dice server :)

- --JT, Deejay, Speaker.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:52:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>> I think this is erroneous, since I know I only used one bonus vote and
>> that I cast it for the proposal.   I still have the email records of my
>> mail to nomicbot if Breadbox needs to verify this.
>
>At most 4 Bonus Votes can have an effect on each proposal.  I believe it
>is only the last 4 that count (although I could be wrong).
>Yours was the 5th Bonus Vote on the list.

What I'm trying to say is that I only used one vote and I cast it for the
proposal.. I don't know where that 'abstained' vote came from.  Therefore
I believe that only 4 should have been cast, not 5.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

At 09:42 05/08/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I've never been particularly fond of Bonus Votes, but right now I
>think I hate them.

I've never overly liked bonus votes either, but right now I quite like
them. I offer a bonus vote to /dev/joe and a bonus vote to Niccolo Flychuck
as I said I would.

Mr. Tambourine Man.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:56:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, JT wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> >> I think this is erroneous, since I know I only used one bonus vote and
> >> that I cast it for the proposal.   I still have the email records of my
> >> mail to nomicbot if Breadbox needs to verify this.
> >
> >At most 4 Bonus Votes can have an effect on each proposal.  I believe it
> >is only the last 4 that count (although I could be wrong).
> >Yours was the 5th Bonus Vote on the list.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that I only used one vote and I cast it for the
> proposal.. I don't know where that 'abstained' vote came from.  Therefore
> I believe that only 4 should have been cast, not 5.

Yes, but your attempt to cast it FOR the proposal failed because of the
excess, yet the Bonus Vote was still used up.  It had to go somewhere,
hence it was registered as an abstention (it had to be used, but the rules
prevented it from counting FOR).

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - Web-Harfer,RuneMaker,ChessUmpire,Map-Harfer - www.ackanomic.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 15:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3333 accepted

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>Yes, but your attempt to cast it FOR the proposal failed because of the
>excess, yet the Bonus Vote was still used up.  It had to go somewhere,
>hence it was registered as an abstention (it had to be used, but the rules
>prevented it from counting FOR).

Oh.. Heh.. Yeah.. I see what happened now.  I'll shut up now and go back
to trying to figure out exactly what I'm currently responsible for (other
than one trip to the Ackanomicon room :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 15:06:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Big Blue Failure

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, L'homme a tete de choux wrote:
>>>I awake from my torpor and point my RBBTTDDTMR (which, incidentally, is a
>>>delightful shade of azure today) at Eric Plumb and press the button marked
>>>'ENERGIZE', thus changing eir name to B. Rice Lump.
>>
>>Fortunately, I don't think that this has any effect since Eric Plumb is no
>>longer an unambiguous reference to anyone. It is my former Ackanomic name
>>and the real name of another player and so it is not clear who it is
>>refering to.
>>
>>Brie Clump.
>
>I realised that about five minutes after i attempted to use the big blue thing
>(etc) when I read Alfvaen's post that did what I intended to do.
>
>There's a lesson to be learnt there.
>
>Anyway, I now point my RBBTTDTTMR at Brie Clump, press the button marked
>energize and change eir name to Bruce Limp. Since it is less than so long since
>I last tried to use the blue thing, it should cause it to break down, blow up,
>whatever.

It does in fact do so, and does so before the thing changes any names.

- --JT, Registrar

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #260
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