Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #201
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest         Friday, June 19 1998         Volume 03 : Number 201

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:05:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR

Could the CSR officer please look at section VIII of rule 340.
(Sorry, I am not sure who that is :-)).

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:23:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Monkey Business

I retract proposal 3218, which has served its purpose.

BTW, could I do this, cc: to nomicbot, and simplify breadbox's
life:

#retract 3218

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:39:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Monkey Business

> I retract proposal 3218, which has served its purpose.
> 
> BTW, could I do this, cc: to nomicbot, and simplify breadbox's
> life:
> 
> #retract 3218

No. After seeing the problems it caused Mohammed, I decided not to go
that route.

That's part of the big obstacle with a nomicbot: synchronizing it with
the rest of the game state. Mohammed was also getting caught by
proposals that people would retract on the list, but without telling
nomicbot. (And sometimes vice versa - there is a proposal that was
never tabulated and never retracted, because the player sent nomicbot
a #retract, and it slipped passed everyone's notice that it had never
been retracted on the list. Fortunately Rule 701 swept that clean long
ago.) I chose to just record everything that happens on the list that
impacts the nomicbot myself. At least that way it's a lot easier to
track down the source of mistakes when they do happen.

breadbox
PS: Our absent MTM is the CSRR Officer.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 03:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Randy Hall wrote:

> Could the CSR officer please look at section VIII of rule 340.
> (Sorry, I am not sure who that is :-)).

MTM is the CSRR Officer.  Hence I am acting CSRR Officer, but that does
not allow me to issue any CSRs, as the issuance of CSRs is a Privilege of
the Office of CSRR.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 03:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 621 (Slakko)

I call for jusgement on the following statement:

Slakko has been selected.

Call For Judgement 621
Subject: Timing of Self-Deleting Text
Initiator: saaremaa (sent Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:40:42 Acka)
Judge: Slakko

Statement:

If a proposal whose text is identical to the text labelled
Proposal A in the reasoning accompaning this CFJ were accepted,
(under the current rules and game state), the string 
"Mungo Jerry" would exist in the rules 1 second after 
the proposal's results were posted, assuming no other public
messages were posted during the 2 seconds immediately following
the posting of the proposal's results.
 
Reasoning:

Proposal A:

"
I.  All instances of the string "Ackanomic" in the rules are
replaced by the string "Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz".

II.  Create a new rule with the following text delimited by BLAH:

BLAH
{{All instances of the string "Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz" in the rules
are replaced by the string "Mungo Jerry".}}
BLAH

III.  All instances of the string "Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz" in the rules
are replaced by the string "failure does not mean you may not try again"
"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 03:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Royal Frinkage

I use my Right-Handed Grapefruit to make Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I frink Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I use my Right-Handed Grapefruit to make Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I frink Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I use my Right-Handed Grapefruit to make Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I frink Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I use my Right-Handed Grapefruit to make Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I frink Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I use my Right-Handed Grapefruit to make Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.
I frink Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.

I believe this entitles me to a Boon of the Ancients.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:29:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: donations

On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> Greetings Ackazens!  I'm rather busy these days, but I'm taking the time
> to donate a BWG Laser, BWG Shotgun Attachment, and 2 Pulse lasers (one of
> which was created by my ACME card a day and a half ago) to the Cubical
> Earth Implementation Society.
> 
> Then, just to be on the safe side, I am creating an infinite number of
> "items".  Then I'm donating them to the CEIS.  I repeat this process an
> infinite number of times.  Then I repeat this process an infinite number
> of times.  Then I start over again...

The donation of "items" is ambiguous, as you have not specified which
cardinality of infinity you are using.  Hence it did not happen.

I create an aleph-one number of "items", each one in correspondence with a
real number, such that every real number is associated with exactly one
item.  I then donate all of these items to the CEIS.

Yours,
Slakko
infinite monkeys have nothing on uncountably many items.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer
Acting President, Acting Clerk of the Courts, Acking CSRR Officer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:25:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ian K." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Once again

> I offer A$ 120 for a pulse laser.
> 
> K 2

I accept this offer.

Koxvolio

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:34:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: Acka: Here today, gone tomorrow...

I'm still on vacation but this message is to let you know that I shall
return by Wednesday 8 July.

bye for now,

david, aka Pandora

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:19:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Karaoke Kid <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Here today, gone tomorrow...

I'm going on vacation.

Horny Protoceratops.

- ----------------------------------------------------
X^n+Y^n=Z^n: no integer solutions for n>2.

I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this,
but it won't fit into my sig file.
- ----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:26:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Schmidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Here today, gone tomorrow...

L'homme a tete de choux schrieb:

> I'm still on vacation but this message is to let you know that I shall
> return by Wednesday 8 July.
> bye for now,
> david, aka Pandora

I'm returning from vacation (since I forgot to specify the duration).
I'm going on vacation with an expected duration of 60 days.
Frank, aka JMBear

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:35:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Cheese

> It hasn't been mentioned publicly or on the web page yet, but P3185, which
> made me briefly be the Harfmeister, also was my 10th consecutive accepted
> proposal to give me a stilton.

Dennis and Edna is correct.  Sorry, I haven't been checking this frequently
because I kept finding errors in the lists I was trying to maintain.  I'll
try to have a look this weekend and see if anyone else has managed.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--They Might Be Giants:Purple Toupee
Current Book--Nicole Luiken:Overdue
The one bright star lit feebly this wick.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:56:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: donations

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> I create an aleph-one number of "items", each one in correspondence with a
> real number, such that every real number is associated with exactly one
> item.  I then donate all of these items to the CEIS.
> 

I suppose Hypothetically this could happen.

IB
would have gone with aleph-0 and integers just to be safe.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:22:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: donations

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Greetings Ackazens!  I'm rather busy these days, but I'm taking the time
> > to donate a BWG Laser, BWG Shotgun Attachment, and 2 Pulse lasers (one of
> > which was created by my ACME card a day and a half ago) to the Cubical
> > Earth Implementation Society.
> > 
> > Then, just to be on the safe side, I am creating an infinite number of
> > "items".  Then I'm donating them to the CEIS.  I repeat this process an
> > infinite number of times.  Then I repeat this process an infinite number
> > of times.  Then I start over again...
> 
> The donation of "items" is ambiguous, as you have not specified which
> cardinality of infinity you are using.  Hence it did not happen.
> 
> I create an aleph-one number of "items", each one in correspondence with a
> real number, such that every real number is associated with exactly one
> item.  I then donate all of these items to the CEIS.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> infinite monkeys have nothing on uncountably many items.

Cursed mathematically minded person!

I create just as many items as Slakko did, an donate them to the CEIS.
Then I create 3 more, and donate them too.  Then I create one, really big,
item, and drop it on Slakko's head.

                                   - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR

Could someone, preferably breadbox or Alfvaen, tell me who the heck I am
supposed to send my CFJ submissions too.  In any event, the following is a
CFJ that I just happen to be submitting to everyone, along with whoever is
supposed to get it:

Statement:  It is possible under the current ruleset to donate Gadgets to
the Cubical Earth Implementation Society.

Reasoning:  I'm not sure.  Rule 1319 says that a player may donate any
"item" that they own to the CEIS.  It never actually says that they can
donate entities, let alone specific kinds of entities such as Gadgets.
On the other hand, the preceding paragraph does list a number of Gadgets
which the CEIS requires, and the following paragraph describes wht happens
if all of the listed entities have been donated.

So there are two questions here:  Are gadgets items, in which case they
can clearly be donated?  Even if gadgets aren't items, does the ret of the
rule make it possible to donate gadgets to the CEIS?

                                     - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:06:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Royal Frinkage

JT looks at Slakko, then looks at the rule.
JT asks rufus to borrow his D'oh, or to at least thwack him solidly with
it.
JT donates A$1 to the TWITS and asks to become a member if he's not
already.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:38:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Return to normalcy

I am changing my name back to /dev/joe

/dev/joe
Apparently didn't sin.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:13:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFCJ 166a (TRUE)

Koxvolio has judged this TRUE without reasoning (and hence the penalty is
as suggested).

Call For Criminal Judgement 166 - June 8, 1998
Subject: Mu-Cow Hunter, Crime of Disinterest
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent June 18, 1998, 10:04 Acka)
Judge: Koxvolio (chosen June 18, 1998, 13:02 Acka)
Verdict: TRUE

Statement:

The Mu-Cow Hunter committed the Crime of Blatant Disregard on June 7,
1998.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

Rule 250, "Registered Players", states that "A player is any person who is
registered as a player."  Well, the Mu-Cow Hunter is not a person, and the
clause of the Rules which may have allowed this to pass was repealed by
Proposal 3158 on June 7(23:57 EDT, so just barely).  So obviously the Mu-Cow
Hunter, by being a player but not being a _person_, has violated Rule 250.

Suggested Punishment:

EXPULSION from the game of Ackanomic.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:15:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 620 (Slakko)

Koxvolio has declined this CFJ.  Slakko has been selected.
(No, I'm not doing this deliberately.  Blame my calculator's random number
function.)

Call For Judgement 620
Subject: Existence of Zaknafien
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent June 18, 1998, 10:08 Acka)
1st Judge: Koxvolio (chosen June 18, 1998, 14:29 Acka)
2nd Judge: Slakko

Statement:

At 23:59 Ackatime on June 10, 1998, there existed a player with the
Ackanomic name Zaknafien.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

Rule 252, "Joining the Game" states: "A person wishing to join the game,
and who cannot do so as a Returning player, should notify the Registrar,
providing a valid email address, their real name, the legal Ackanomic
name they wish to play under, and optionally the Ackanomic name of the
current active player who convinced them to join the game or where they
heard about the game. Upon them providing this information, should the
requested name indeed be a legal Ackanomic name, the Registrar shall
post a public message announcing the new player and providing their
Ackanomic name, real name, and email address, and if the prospective
player provided it, the optional information. Upon the posting of such
an announcement, the person becomes registered as a player."

The person with email address <[email-masked]> supplied, for "real
name", the name "John".  I'd like to know here whether or not this is
sufficient for em to have joined.  The fact that, for instance, Archie
Leach joined supplying only the name "T. Miller", may be precedent for
this.  There are also some players listed in the archive without supplied
real names, like WAMPHYRI, cobber, and, in fact, SonOfWu when e joined
originally as Narcisse was listed with the name "Hapexamendios".  However,
it's possible that they joined at a time when the Rules were laxer on
allowing new players to join--cobber on 3/27/96, Narcisse on 3/29/96, and
WAMPHYRI on 4/10/96.  So this might require some research.

Far be it from me to block Zaknafien--I do like that name--from joining,
but this should be cleared up now.

(Additional information: I posted the first message, with real name "John",
announcing Zaknafien joining at 20:00 on June 10, 1998.  The original
version of this CFJ came out at least a day later.  Also, as regards K 2,
I may have just been confused by eir first and last name being the same.
:-)  Or maybe I'm just inconsistent...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:43:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 622 (IdiotBoy)

IdiotBoy has been selected.

Call for Judgement 622
Subject: Gadget Donation
Initiator: Vynd (sent June 19 1998, 10:30 Acka)
Judge: IdiotBoy

Statement:  It is possible under the current ruleset to donate Gadgets to
the Cubical Earth Implementation Society.

Reasoning:  I'm not sure.  Rule 1319 says that a player may donate any
"item" that they own to the CEIS.  It never actually says that they can
donate entities, let alone specific kinds of entities such as Gadgets.
On the other hand, the preceding paragraph does list a number of Gadgets
which the CEIS requires, and the following paragraph describes wht happens
if all of the listed entities have been donated.

So there are two questions here:  Are gadgets items, in which case they
can clearly be donated?  Even if gadgets aren't items, does the ret of the
rule make it possible to donate gadgets to the CEIS?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:53:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 621 (Slakko)

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> I call for jusgement on the following statement:
> 
> Slakko has been selected.
> 

I judge FALSE.  Do I win a prize?

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 621 (Slakko)

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > I call for jusgement on the following statement:
> > 
> > Slakko has been selected.
> > 
> 
> I judge FALSE.  Do I win a prize?

No.  You didn't jusge anything.

- -- 
Duncan C. "unambiguous correct spelling of a nonsense word" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:42:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 622 (TRUE)

IdiotBoy has judged this TRUE.

Call for Judgement 622
Subject: Gadget Donation
Initiator: Vynd (sent June 19 1998, 10:30 Acka)
Judge: IdiotBoy (chosen June 19 1998, 15:43 Acka)
Verdict: TRUE

Statement:  It is possible under the current ruleset to donate Gadgets to
the Cubical Earth Implementation Society.

Reasoning:  I'm not sure.  Rule 1319 says that a player may donate any
"item" that they own to the CEIS.  It never actually says that they can
donate entities, let alone specific kinds of entities such as Gadgets.
On the other hand, the preceding paragraph does list a number of Gadgets
which the CEIS requires, and the following paragraph describes wht happens
if all of the listed entities have been donated.

So there are two questions here:  Are gadgets items, in which case they
can clearly be donated?  Even if gadgets aren't items, does the ret of the
rule make it possible to donate gadgets to the CEIS?

Judge's Reasoning:
There are many places in the rules where the concept of "item" is used as
a superset of the concept of "Entity." (viz. R505, R516)

(One could argue that they are used synonymously in some case.  I see
that as the degenerate case of the preceeding.  And, yes, I only included
this comment to get degenerate into my reasoning.)   

Additionally, this judge can find no case in the rules where the concept
of "ownership" is applied to anything which is not a Entity.

It is the opinion of this judge that rule 1319 allows players to donate
any entities they own to the CEIS.  As Gadgets are a subclass of Entities,
they maybe be donated to the CEIS.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:40:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Boon determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# player: Slakko
# I am using the dice server to determine the boon allegedly
# yielded from the "Royal Frinks" rule based on the following
# (using a 100 sided die):
# 1 -45: ancient artifact (random gadget)
# 46-70: ancient scroll (random otzma card)
# 71-80: gods are smiling (bonus vote)
# 81-87: ancient relic (trinket worth A$75)
# 88-92: ancient knowledge (new blueprint)
# 93-97: ancient wisdom (new otzma card)
# 98-99: gods are bored (pointy ears)
#  100 : gods are grouchy (chartreuse goose)
# Alfvaen

No. of sides on every die:    100
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     90

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Fri Jun 19 19:41:40 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id TAA16952 for <[email-masked]>; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:41:40 -0700
> Received: from edtntnt2-port-191.agt.net(209.115.133.191) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma016944; Fri Jun 19 19:41:30 1998
> Received: (from alfvaen@localhost) by telusplanet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id UAA02440 for [email-masked]; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:41:24 -0600
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Boon
> To: [email-masked]
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:41:23 -0600 (MDT)
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
> Content-Type: text
> 
> 
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 100
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Boon determination
> 
> #C player: Slakko
> #C I am using the dice server to determine the boon allegedly
> #C yielded from the "Royal Frinks" rule based on the following
> #C (using a 100 sided die):
> #C 1 -45: ancient artifact (random gadget)
> #C 46-70: ancient scroll (random otzma card)
> #C 71-80: gods are smiling (bonus vote)
> #C 81-87: ancient relic (trinket worth A$75)
> #C 88-92: ancient knowledge (new blueprint)
> #C 93-97: ancient wisdom (new otzma card)
> #C 98-99: gods are bored (pointy ears)
> #C  100 : gods are grouchy (chartreuse goose)
> #C Alfvaen
> 

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=JfEF
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:05:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: moons

While I'm here btw.

"To Ganymede and Titan, yes sir I've been around."

I have in fact been to both moons, and am currently sitting on Titan
(still).

I'll probably be returning shortly unless we can find a way to get Joe
Java up here.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:06:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Re: Acka: Boon determination

Now wouldn't it be ironic if the dice rolled a 100...

AtP

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #201
*******************************