Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #177
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Thursday, June 11 1998        Volume 03 : Number 177

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: World Cup stuff

> I ask Alfvaen to use them for creation a small replica
> of the Soccer World Cup and get it through as Majik
> so it can't be destroyed as easily), and watch over
> the WC98 Acka Betting Competition.

> The rules are fairly easy. Each better names four teams
> which e believes to be the top four of the Soccer World
> Cup, and one of them which e believes to win the World
> Cup. This should happen in the next days, before the
> World Cup starts. If Alfvaen wants, e may also allow
> bets or revised bets until every team has played one
> game, but I think that should be the closing time.

I haven't done this yet, and I have, in fact, no idea about the
World Cup timeline.  I think that someone had offered to do this for
me, and if so I would be deeply grateful, because I don't think I
would have the time or interest to do justice to it.  :-)

I'll requote the betting rules(at least)here below:

> When the World Cup is finished, the individual bets
> are compared with the results. For this, the teams
> are put into 3 classes:
> A includes the 4 group heads which have won the World
> Cup before: Brasil, Germany, Italy, Argentina.
> B includes the 4 group heads which didn't: France,
> Netherlands, Spain, Romania.
> C includes all 24 other teams (including USA, England
> and Scotland)

> If a class A team comes among the top 4, all betters
> who guesses that correctly gain 10 points, if a class
> A team wins the World Cup, all betters who guessed
> gain 18 more points.
> For class B teams these numbers are multiplied with
> 1.5, for class C teams multiplied with 2.5 (to avoid
> that everyone bets on the four class A teams).

> The better with the most points should get the
> replica of the World Cup (Majik) and the gold medal
> (Trinket), the next their respective medals.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Angel Baby Soundtrack
Current Book--Truddi Chase:When Rabbit Howls
Just keep examining every low bid quoted for zinc etchings.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:36:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Honour Scores

The honour scores for all players and undead are now available at
   http://www.nausicaa.net/~jtraub/acka/honour.html

Please give it a look see, and if you believe I missed anything, please
let me know.

Also please let me know if you like the layout/presentation, and if not,
how you would like to see it done differently.

Breadbox (or any other lynx user), I'm aware that it's less than pretty
under lynx for the moment.  I'd appreciate any comments on how to make it
nicer (it's at least readable, just not very pretty).

- --JT, Herald.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:46:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 611 (Nicollo Flychuck)

I decline this CFJ
Niccolo Flychuck

On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, JT wrote:

> Nicollo Flychuck has been selected.
> 
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call for Judgement 611 - June 9, 1998
> Subject: CFJ vs CFCJ
> Initiator: Slakko (June 9th, 03:21 Acka)
> Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (Selected June9th, 12:50 Acka)
> 
> Statement:
> The statements which have been distributed by JT labelled as CFCJ 166 and
> CFCJ 167 are not, in fact, CFCJs.
> 
> Slakko's Reasoning:
> Both of these so-called CFCJs violated Rule 710, as they attempted to
> convict someone ofa Crime on the day they committed it.  Rule 710
> specifies that the date listed on the CFCJ must be between 1 and 30 days
> prior to the current date.
> 
> 
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
> [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
> [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 03:00:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: World Cup stuff

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > The rules are fairly easy. Each better names four teams
> > which e believes to be the top four of the Soccer World
> > Cup, and one of them which e believes to win the World
> > Cup. This should happen in the next days, before the
> > World Cup starts. If Alfvaen wants, e may also allow
> > bets or revised bets until every team has played one
> > game, but I think that should be the closing time.
> 
> I haven't done this yet, and I have, in fact, no idea about the
> World Cup timeline.  I think that someone had offered to do this for
> me, and if so I would be deeply grateful, because I don't think I
> would have the time or interest to do justice to it.  :-)

Two matches have already been completed. Unfortunately this makes it a bit
late to start the competition.

Yours,
Slakko
drew Iran in the Deparment World Cup Sweep
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:17:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Ackanomic: Actions (retry)

Wild Card wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, John Bollinger wrote:
>
>> > For each and every $A I possess
>> > I create a trinket named #N dress.
>> >
>> > N is in each case
>> > A unique integer that
>> > minimises M.
>> >
>> > M is the sum of 
>> > all of the N defined in
>> > the names so defined.
>> >
>> > And for reasons that I will not give,
>> > Each N, and M, should be positive.
>> >
>> > For each the description is that
>> > "This Trinket defined to satisfy a hat".
>> >
>> > And in each case the 
>> > value of the trinket is
>> > 1 Ackadoller.
>> 
>> I believe that only one trinket is created by the above -- the
>> formula given produces N=1 for every trinket, thus only the first
>> name specified is legal.  [I am parsing "unique" as applying to
>> the minimization criterion, which would be most consistent with
>> typical mathematical usage.  (It is, thus, superfluous.)  If
>> that is not reasonable then I don't see any rendering of "unique"
>> in that context which is clearly preferrable over the others,
>> thus this fails because it does not unambiguously specify all
>> necessary information.]
>
> Can I argue that in that case you are being inconsistant.  By your
>argument it should produce N=0 for each trinket.

If you so argue, then you show your ignorance of the fact that zero
is not positive.

> But there are however two counter arguments:
>
> 1) The unique refers to each member of the set over each other.  (Without
>which the /minimilisation/ criterion is null).

You can claim that, but it is not the natural interpretation to me.  If
you insist that it should be the correct one then, at best, the specification
was ambiguous and therefore unsuccessful.

> 2) I now have somewhere between 200 and 500 trinkets /all/ named either:

[...]

> This is because:

[...]

> Well, they were all created (and named) simultaneously...

I don't think so.  Creating one trinket is a legal action.  Creating multiple
trinkets simultaneously is not, at least not a _single_ action.  If a
message specifies multiple actions then they occur sequentially.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 611 (Wild Card)

Niccolo Flychuck has declined.  Wild Card has been selected.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call for Judgement 611 - June 9, 1998
Subject: CFJ vs CFCJ
Initiator: Slakko (June 9th, 03:21 Acka)
Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (Selected June 9th, 12:50 Acka) (declined)
2nd Judge: Wild Card (Selected June 11, 9:49 Acka)

Statement:
The statements which have been distributed by JT labelled as CFCJ 166 and
CFCJ 167 are not, in fact, CFCJs.

Slakko's Reasoning:
Both of these so-called CFCJs violated Rule 710, as they attempted to
convict someone of a Crime on the day they committed it.  Rule 710
specifies that the date listed on the CFCJ must be between 1 and 30 days
prior to the current date.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:56:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Ackanomic: Actions (retry)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, John Bollinger wrote:

> 
> Wild Card wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, John Bollinger wrote:
> >
> >> > For each and every $A I possess
> >> > I create a trinket named #N dress.
> >> >
> >> > N is in each case
> >> > A unique integer that
> >> > minimises M.
> >> >
> >> > M is the sum of 
> >> > all of the N defined in
> >> > the names so defined.
> >> >
> >> > And for reasons that I will not give,
> >> > Each N, and M, should be positive.
> >> >
> >> > For each the description is that
> >> > "This Trinket defined to satisfy a hat".
> >> >
> >> > And in each case the 
> >> > value of the trinket is
> >> > 1 Ackadoller.
> >> 
> >> I believe that only one trinket is created by the above -- the
> >> formula given produces N=1 for every trinket, thus only the first
> >> name specified is legal.  [I am parsing "unique" as applying to
> >> the minimization criterion, which would be most consistent with
> >> typical mathematical usage.  (It is, thus, superfluous.)  If
> >> that is not reasonable then I don't see any rendering of "unique"
> >> in that context which is clearly preferrable over the others,
> >> thus this fails because it does not unambiguously specify all
> >> necessary information.]
> >
> > Can I argue that in that case you are being inconsistant.  By your
> >argument it should produce N=0 for each trinket.
> 
> If you so argue, then you show your ignorance of the fact that zero
> is not positive.

 That depends upon how you're defining positive.
 
> > But there are however two counter arguments:
> >
> > 1) The unique refers to each member of the set over each other.  (Without
> >which the /minimilisation/ criterion is null).
> 
> You can claim that, but it is not the natural interpretation to me.  If
> you insist that it should be the correct one then, at best, the specification
> was ambiguous and therefore unsuccessful.

 Hmmm....  Maybe.

> > 2) I now have somewhere between 200 and 500 trinkets /all/ named either:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > This is because:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Well, they were all created (and named) simultaneously...
> 
> I don't think so.  Creating one trinket is a legal action.  Creating multiple
> trinkets simultaneously is not, at least not a _single_ action.  If a
> message specifies multiple actions then they occur sequentially.

 So, which rule says that?  I couldn't find it indexed under "Timing" on
the catagorised rules list...

 Wild Card.

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing a Silly Agenda Hat.   \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:00:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Ackanomic: Actions (retry)

If you are using any mathematically accepted version of "positive", you
are not including zero.  The correct way to refer to "all positive
numbers and zero" is nonnegative.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Jonathan David Amery [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:56 AM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Re:  Ackanomic: Actions (retry)
>
>
>[snippage]
> 
>> If you so argue, then you show your ignorance of the fact that zero
>> is not positive.
>
> That depends upon how you're defining positive.
> 
>[snippage]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:02:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 611 (else...if)

Wild Card declined this in private mail.
else...if has been selected.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call for Judgement 611 - June 9, 1998
Subject: CFJ vs CFCJ
Initiator: Slakko (June 9th, 03:21 Acka)
Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (Selected June 9th, 12:50 Acka) (declined)
2nd Judge: Wild Card (Selected June 11, 9:49 Acka) (declined)
3rd Judge: else...if (Selected June 11, 11:00 Acka)

Statement:
The statements which have been distributed by JT labelled as CFCJ 166 and
CFCJ 167 are not, in fact, CFCJs.

Slakko's Reasoning:
Both of these so-called CFCJs violated Rule 710, as they attempted to
convict someone of a Crime on the day they committed it.  Rule 710
specifies that the date listed on the CFCJ must be between 1 and 30 days
prior to the current date.

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:17:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Ackanomic: Actions (retry)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote:

>  That depends upon how you're defining positive.
>  

You have GOT to be kidding.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:28:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Ackanomic: Actions (retry)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, AARON KEESLER wrote:

> If you are using any mathematically accepted version of "positive", you
> are not including zero.  The correct way to refer to "all positive
> numbers and zero" is nonnegative.
> 

 O.K; I guess I've been contaminated by my year doing CompSci courses -
the CompSci lectures habitually include 0 in the positives...

 :-(

- -- 
Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ.             #####
http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html                  o__#######
Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing a Silly Agenda Hat.   \'#######
Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo.  Holding the Silver Key to the Vault.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:42:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Trade

I offer to trade ThinMan A$50 and one Share My Expenses Otzma Card for his
Pulse Laser.

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:26:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: GIOOMC

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, K2 wrote:

> [I dance naked on the town hall steps. I repeatedly manipulate in an
> illegal manner a regulated entity. I offer all of my tradeable entities
> in exchange for nothing. I shout obscenities at the first citizen and
> question if eir mother was in fact an entity adding that if e was e
> prolly wore army boots. I steal all of the entities in the museum. I
> pursue a game strategy that results in excessive quantities of mail. I
> create n trinkets such that n is the lesser of all possible trinkets
> divided by the sum of the number of buckets of sand under the bridge. I
> thwack the description witch is longer than my arm and repeat it
> backwards. Jumping excitedly I skip backwards holding hands with a three
> foot rhinoceros. I found a church dedicated to the worship of Hoover
> 2300 with the following church doctrine: the blue prints should be blue
> if not the contract has to be signed by a flounder in a yellow suit. The
> Forked tongue in me head causes it to explode and my pointy eras
> backward. I resign from all offices which I own and resign all players
> from Eire as well. I change my score to twice the the negative
> /minimization/ of the inverse hyperbola squared. Happy Happy Happy. Sad
> Sad Sad. Possession of the trombone is the tuba possession Take I will.
> In  The Age phrase random select I words from a yesterday's. *ping*. The
> machine that goes goes. Spelling Eros abound buy the spelling corrector
> corrects and under the wheel the bowl of yolk is squashed. In the event
> that the following and preceding sentences were in any way ambiguous
> then it is the case that the games state will contain a paradox larger
> than the number of kaas of large last bought by any entity and sold at
> 40 times cost. On the day after the any day which follows a moon which
> is not full or would otherwise be so if the small round blue thing held
> under the armpit of the central Venezuelan mud nut production company's
> chief advisor to the chairman of the company's second under secretary
> second oldest sibling is not blue nor ever was, and provided that the
> thread in which this is all occurring doesn't exist and any condition I
> have placed on this action are met by a Florally attired anorexic hippo
> then take the number of entities I have possessed for greater than the
> number of days equal to the sum of the value of all entities I have ever
> possessed modulus the square of the 32nd digit of pi and gift those
> entities implied in this sentence to the first player to publicly state
> that e will in any circumstance other that this one, e will produce a
> mutation of the long nosed verity on the  left most medial protuberance
> on Tammany, however, should the day be any day besides yesterday
> transfer all the entities not directly involved and a randomly
> determined half of the entities indirectly involved and place in a bowl.
> Stir well. <Boom>.]

As Harfmeister, this sure looks Funky and Stylish to me.

- - 867-5309

The beatings will continue until someone other than K 2 becomes F&S.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:01:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Trade

I offer to trade my 2 swingpoints for a total of 35 A$; this
offer expires 2 hours from the time of this post.

saaremaa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:15:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randy Hall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I was

> I create a Trinket known as "my hand", with a value of A$7 and a
> description of "A large Ackan hand sculpted from purest eggplant, perfect
> for raising, giving, or having." 

In all threads in which this action occurred, I am complaining that
this trinket is lame, inane, and otherwise useless and of negligible
artistic merit.  I name 867-5309 and 'my hand' to be judged by the CPPIA.

The valid responses are:

this the most inane thing since the 'whatever it is we're auctioning today'
this is the hottest thing since the 'Hubert Feathers'

Reply to vote.

saaremaa
Comfortable Chair

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:42:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 612 (FALSE)

Joe Java has judged this false.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 612 - June 9, 1998
Subject: Wildcard's forked tongue
Initiator: Rufus (Sent  June 9th, 18:39 Acka)
Judge: Joe Java (Selected June 9th, 18:50 Acka)
Verdict: FALSE

Statement:
Wild Card does not have a forked tonue.

Initiator's Reasoning:
Entirely lexographical.  Rule 854 reads, in part, "Current available
mutations: " and lists extra heads, pointy ears, and wings.
Then it says "Other mutations may be developed in the future, and if they
are, they should be added to this rule."  Following that, there is some
gibberish about forked tongue.

Judge's Reasoning:
The statement in rule 854 that states: "Other mutations may be developed
in the future, and if they are, they should be added to this rule." does
not signify a stopping point of the list of possible mutations but merely
a comment suggesting that additions can be made to the rule.  It is
redundant of course anyway considering that all rules are up from addition
by normal Ackan rules.  So Wild Card does have a forked tongue (barring
any other restrictions as per normal Ackan rules and procedures).

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:45:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alexandre Owen Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Trade

Randy Hall wrote:
> 
> I offer to trade my 2 swingpoints for a total of 35 A$; this
> offer expires 2 hours from the time of this post.
> 
> saaremaa

I offer 25 A$ for your 2 swingpoints; this offer expires one hour from
the time of this post.

two-star

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Trade

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Randy Hall wrote:

> I offer to trade my 2 swingpoints for a total of 35 A$; this
> offer expires 2 hours from the time of this post.
> 
> saaremaa
> 

I accept this offer.

IB
always wanted him some swingpoints

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:00:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hat tricks

If I have not done so already (and I'm almost sure I have, but it's not 
depicted on Illuminatus' page and the ftp archives still seem to be down,
so I can't check for sure) I reveal the condition associated with Agenda
Hat number 25, to wit, "It is publicly knowable that the associated
conditions of five different agenda hats, not including hats in the
possession of the owner of this hat, have become true and remained that
way, having previously been false, while the owner of the hat has been
wearing this hat.", and wear it.

I also reveal the condition associated with Agenda Hat #26, "The owner of
this hat is a member of an organization which has as a member a non-player
Entity which has not previously been a member of that organisation and
joined after the owner of this hat became a member." [sic] and wear that
one, too.

I recline in a soft crater on Titan and duocephalically applaud Slakko as
my Silver Spaceship vanishes into ephemera.

- - 867-5309

The beatings will continue until morale improves. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Actions (Full Moon Time!)

It is my  intention to go to Titan.
I play the Skeleton Key.
Poof, I should be on the moon (which should be very much full now).

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

     Joel Ricker [] [email-masked] [] ICQ# 6244364
       http://www.Geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/1047/
         Home of Eleusis Nomic -- Join Today!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:00:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions (Full Moon Time!)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 [email-masked] wrote:
>It is my  intention to go to Titan.
>I play the Skeleton Key.
>Poof, I should be on the moon (which should be very much full now).

Ya know, I think we're all about to feel really stupid.
The Full Moon rule says every member.
I will note (rather unhappily) that Goldenmean is a member of the Razor
Boomerangs and he is not currently on the moon.

Goldenmean, if you are listening, would you care to join us.
Or could we convince you to leave the org temporarily? (We'd still be
big enough to avoid being a VSO, it only requires 3 or more :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:40:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Chocolate Frog

Vynd has found the Chocolate Frog this month, and is thus First Citizen of
Ackanomic.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rush
Current Book--Truddi Chase:When Rabbit Howls
The sun scrolled down the horizon as they crested the hill.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #177
*******************************