Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #108
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest       Thursday, April 16 1998       Volume 03 : Number 108

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:33:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> I play my otzma share your income card, naming the amount A$2400, of the
> A$4930 Guy Fawkes just received when e sold 85 stocks.

> (so I'm greedier that Alfvaen :) )

> I gift A$ 400 to Alfvaen.

Would that this had succeeded, but apparently, due to a typo in the
entitylog, this card does not exist.  K 2 got three SYI cards in Slakko's
first Otzma Card auction, buried two of them in Treasure 196, bought
another one in the next Otzma auction, and the played one one Hoover
2300's starting cash.  That only leaves one, which e just traded to me.

My apologies for the confusion.  Again.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Earthlings!  Your weapons are useful on us! All we have is this P.A.!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:34:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> So this is how a carcass feels when flies swarm all over it.
> Anyway, I am playing an Otzma Card Go Fish on this play.

Which did not occur, so this did not occur.

> Then, my wealth restored to me, I attempt to protect my investment by
> placing it back in the market, where it appears to be marginally safer, by
> buying 95 stocks.

I'll have to check whether this occurs, but if it presumes the existence
of the extra 10% returned from K 2...

Then again, I haven't read my email all day, so maybe this has already
been hashed out when our vigilant RuneMaker noticed the discrepancy...

> This should leave me with A$373, 273 of which I transform into a trinket,
> named Guy's Pretty Penny.  It is a very large brass coin.

> I offer the remaining A$100 to Niccolo Flychuck in exchange for his
> Cheez-whiz.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Everybody talks about the weather, but no one DOES anything about it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:34:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Are we that busy?

I'm getting bounced from the Condensed Main Acka Page.  "Too many users"
Is this something that has happened before?  I assume it is actually
Slakko's server, not the Acka page itself, that is this busy :)

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proselytizing

> I request membership in the church of Azpiazu (provided of course that the
> worship of Cheez-Whiz does not conflict with the holy nature of banna )

I can't remember if I already did this or not, but I don't think I did;
I hereby welcome K 2 into the Church of Azpiazu.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--The Payola$:Romance
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Keep reality out of reach of children.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:42:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: Nyarlathotep

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Gavin M. Doig wrote:

> If ze zecond zentence vas not aczeptable, ze next vun vas:
> Nyarlathotep shall publicly announce the fact of its enaction, or failure.
> Vhich vas zubmeeted by The Gingham Wearer, from Rule 421.2!
> 
> I zink zat zis vould be ze ectual lest zentence, end zet Nyarlathotep vould
> replace "page" in ze ozer incorrect zentenze!
> 
> Rex Mundi!
> 
> 

I think that the issue of contention here is going to be what happens when
the Mad Scientist incorrectly announces that a Blueprint has been
completed, and announces said Blueprint.  I don't think it is going to be
as simple as saying that the incorrect sentences are removed/fixed, and
the construction continues on as if nothing had happened.  I'm going to
hold off once again on a CFJ, until I can actually access a copy of the
rules.

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:49:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Are we that busy?

At 12:34 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm getting bounced from the Condensed Main Acka Page.  "Too many users"
>Is this something that has happened before?  I assume it is actually
>Slakko's server, not the Acka page itself, that is this busy :)

Maybe I've taken to advertising Acka again -- I once got quite a good
number of people to join Acka in a fairly short amount of time, just
through strategic advertising.

Of course, that wasn't a good thing. Probably why the office of the
Publicist ceased to exist.

Harf,
Robert Sevin
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~mitcharf/>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:52:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: acka: Nyarlathotep

> I think that the issue of contention here is going to be what happens when
> the Mad Scientist incorrectly announces that a Blueprint has been
> completed, and announces said Blueprint.  I don't think it is going to be
> as simple as saying that the incorrect sentences are removed/fixed, and
> the construction continues on as if nothing had happened.  I'm going to
> hold off once again on a CFJ, until I can actually access a copy of the
> rules.

I think I did that once myself when I was Mad Scientist, so you might also
want to check the CFJ's, or failing that the mail logs, to see what we
did then.  I think I just reposted it when it was actually finished or
some such thing.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
With a 1,2,3 we all go *SPUNG* together...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:56:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Foolishness

Didn't it used to be that one could only once gain bonus points from
submitting a Proposal with the silly phrase in it?  Because Hubert has
pointed out to me that such is not the case.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Suddenly, she died of old age.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:02:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 567 (FALSE)

> JT has judged this FALSE.

> Clerk of the Courts
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 567 - April 15, 1998
> Subject: Winning part 2
> Initiator: Alfvaen (sent April 15, 1998, 00:09)
> Judge: JT (selected April 15, 1998, 09:55)
> Judgement: FALSE

> Statement:
> Alfvaen's score is higher than the Magic Number.

> Alfvaen's Reasoning:
> As Praetor, I was allowed to describe how Beldin's Pants, the Rule, was
> to be amended.  I stated that as Praetor I was allowed to amend it.  I
> then amended it to create the entity Antxina, whose powers were enumerated
> therein.  Finally, by means of one of those powers I raised my score to the
> Magic Number, and it has since risen due to normal score changes from
> Proposal passages, anti-voting, etc.

> Judge's Reasoning:
>   As Slakko pointed out when he made his win attempt earlier today, Alfvaen
> forgot to include the Pyraic Frobnotzor in the list of ways to amend the
> rule and thus was unable to amend it as he described.

I am appealing this verdict.  The Judge's reasoning above may fall afoul
of Section XI. of Rule 594, which states "All Blueprints defer precedence
to rules which are not Blueprints."  So Rule 940 takes precedence over
the Pyraic Frobnotzer's Blueprint.

(The preceding paragraph, by the way, is my appeal reasoning, just for the
CotC's convenience.)  No, if this didn't work, I'd rather know better how.
(If that parses.)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
One flash of light, but no smoking pistol.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> > I offer the remaining A$100 to Niccolo Flychuck in exchange for his
> > Cheez-whiz.

> I accept this offer.

Unfortunately, since(as I earlier stated), Guy Fawkes does not have
A$100.

I, however, will gladly offer Niccolo Flychuck A$50 and a Share Your
Income Otzma Card for the Cheez-Whiz.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
I want to see a magazine called Unpopular Science.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:05:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Home Fries.

> I only got my chance as a 1 in 50 shot - I was very lucky and I believe I
> should have a chance to take advantage of that luck.  Otherwise what would
> the point of having been lucky be?

As Leslie Nielsen says:  "Some people say winning is about luck, but
the trouble with luck is that some have it and some don't, so how do
you know if you have luck if you're not lucky enough to know it!  So
forget about luck; winning is _mental sharpness_."

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Munching our sandwiches, the train pulled out of the station.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:07:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: DeeJay, get off your ASS

> I go to the Library.

> And inside, the jukebox roars just like thunder.

> I place A$5 into the slot on the control panel.

> I wish to play "Taxman," by the Beatles.  For obvious reasons, at least if
> you're unfortunate enough to be an American today.

> I also point out that the traditional deadline for the Bulwer-Lytton "Dark
> and Stormy" contests was (and still is, I believe) today, because, and I
> quote, "Americans associate it with another painful submission."

In Canada, we have until the end of the month.  I plan to do mine this
coming weekend.

It's April 5th in Britain, isn't it?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
"Not Reno, honey.  Rio.  Rio Degenero."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:10:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> > Then, my wealth restored to me, I attempt to protect my investment by
> > placing it back in the market, where it appears to be marginally safer, by
> > buying 95 stocks.

> I'll have to check whether this occurs, but if it presumes the existence
> of the extra 10% returned from K 2...

Okay.  GF had enough to buy 95 stocks, but that only left em with...
actually, I made another mistake.  That makes...well, a bunch.  E was left
with A$163, so the Pretty Penny wasn't made, but the offer to Niccolo
Flychuck was still valid.

Anyone want to be Financier?  This is too much work.  1/2 :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Give me ambiguity, or give me something else.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Czechoslovakian Trinkets

I think, to make it easier, I shall consider the creation of the first
30 trinkets to have succeeded on TGW's first attempt, and the other 3
later on.  (If I had to choose them randomly, then it was 10, 27, and
33 that didn't end up created first try.  :-)

So the Treasure burial and finding happened.  (I can't remember if I've
seen that episode.  We're still a season or two behind in Red Dwarf
here, since the PBS station that was more up-to-date stopped playing it.
We get "The Thin Blue Line" instead.)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
Hearts have not been broken.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:17:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Electrolux

I announced the Electrolux Discovery back on April 1st.  I believe that
seven days after that it became a Blueprint, and after a further seven
days that Blueprint became Qualified.

If all that is the case, then I begin the construction of an Electrolux
right now.  It will be completed in three days.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
I've got a love and it won't stop burning

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:24:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: My Eleusis Game

So far I have the following players:

Alfvaen
K 2
Ayla
Attila the Pun

Anyone else want to join?  I don't want to be exclusivist like JT.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
There's no accounting for The Dead.  --josh hayes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:14:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 567 (FALSE)

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > JT has judged this FALSE.
> 
> > Clerk of the Courts
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Call For Judgement 567 - April 15, 1998
> > Subject: Winning part 2
> > Initiator: Alfvaen (sent April 15, 1998, 00:09)
> > Judge: JT (selected April 15, 1998, 09:55)
> > Judgement: FALSE
> 
> > Statement:
> > Alfvaen's score is higher than the Magic Number.
> 
> > Alfvaen's Reasoning:
> > As Praetor, I was allowed to describe how Beldin's Pants, the Rule, was
> > to be amended.  I stated that as Praetor I was allowed to amend it.  I
> > then amended it to create the entity Antxina, whose powers were enumerated
> > therein.  Finally, by means of one of those powers I raised my score to the
> > Magic Number, and it has since risen due to normal score changes from
> > Proposal passages, anti-voting, etc.
> 
> > Judge's Reasoning:
> >   As Slakko pointed out when he made his win attempt earlier today, Alfvaen
> > forgot to include the Pyraic Frobnotzor in the list of ways to amend the
> > rule and thus was unable to amend it as he described.
> 
> I am appealing this verdict.  The Judge's reasoning above may fall afoul
> of Section XI. of Rule 594, which states "All Blueprints defer precedence
> to rules which are not Blueprints."  So Rule 940 takes precedence over
> the Pyraic Frobnotzer's Blueprint.
> 
> (The preceding paragraph, by the way, is my appeal reasoning, just for the
> CotC's convenience.)  No, if this didn't work, I'd rather know better how.
> (If that parses.)

I tried to find that bit but couldn't.  Damn. :-)
Now, let's have a look at the rest of the possibilities.

The message which is deemed to have succeeded was as follows:

:Rules of Logic be suspended!
:How is Beldin's Pants amended?

:Rule 940 says the Praetor
:Can this tell you, now or later.

Rule 940 says the Praetor can describe how to amend Beldin's Pants.  It
does not say the Praetor can amend Beldin's Pants (although if the Praetor
says e can, then e can by Rule 940).  This paragraph can be reasonably
interpreted as meaning "As Rule 940 states, I (Alfvaen) as Praetor tell
you the following ways of amending Beldin's Pants."

None of the following ways allow the Praetor to unilaterally send public
messages detailing how e can amend Rule 940.  Therefore e cannot.

:It can be changed by Beldin's Tailor,
:Even if e be the Gaoler.

:Or one who reads "The Secret" in
:"That book", the Ackanomicin.

:Or holder of three types of cheese,
:And a Cheez-Whiz, if you please.

:And then, of course, the normal means, 
:Proposals, worth much more than beans.

:State of Crisis Resolution
:Documents, 'nother solution.

:Other such means may exist,
:But no more the Vulcan fist.

Nowhere in here has he given himself the right to amend Beldin's Pants
with a public message.  He (1) is not Beldin's Tailor, (2) has not read
"The Secret" in the last week, (3) does not hold 3 cheeses and a
Cheez-Whiz, (4) did not submit a proposal to amend the rule, and (5) did
not submit a State of Crisis Resolution Document.

Hence Alfvaen never had the authority to amend Beldin's Pants so as to
create the entity Antxina.

Yours,
Slakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:29:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Web Server Recovered

I don't know what went wrong with the too many users problem, but I've
rebooted so it should be alright.  Any problems, just mail me.

Yours,
Slakko
d$*n M*cr*s*ft

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:39:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

Laughs manically

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > I play my otzma share your income card, naming the amount A$2400, of the
> > A$4930 Guy Fawkes just received when e sold 85 stocks.
>
> > (so I'm greedier that Alfvaen :) )
>
> > I gift A$ 400 to Alfvaen.
>
> Would that this had succeeded, but apparently, due to a typo in the
> entitylog, this card does not exist.  K 2 got three SYI cards in Slakko's
> first Otzma Card auction, buried two of them in Treasure 196, bought
> another one in the next Otzma auction, and the played one one Hoover
> 2300's starting cash.  That only leaves one, which e just traded to me.
>
> My apologies for the confusion.  Again.
>
> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
> Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
> Earthlings!  Your weapons are useful on us! All we have is this P.A.!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:40:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> Anyone want to be Financier?  This is too much work.  1/2 :-)
>

is that a joke or an offer?

> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
> Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
> Give me ambiguity, or give me something else.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:48:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > So this is how a carcass feels when flies swarm all over it.
> > Anyway, I am playing an Otzma Card Go Fish on this play.
> 
> Which did not occur, so this did not occur.

Last time this happened, we deemed that the Go Fish was played, just
pointlessly.  What happens exactly?

Yours,
Slakko
confused RuneMaker
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer
Vote Slakko for President and see him shut up.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC Office Limits

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, K2 wrote:
> 
> > {{[***Senate***]}}
> > Replace the first sentence of Rule 411 (Senate) with:
> > The Office of Senator has four Seats. Every 3 months the two seats for
> > which an election has  not been held for the longest time have their
> > term of office expire. If more than two seats tie for this distinction,
> > two seats will be selected at random from amongst the possibilities.
> 
> I think this should be concurrent with the Presidency.  Every time the
> President's seat becomes vacant, for whatever reason (to keep it simple),
> the Senate seat continuously occupied for the longest is vacated as well.
> So each Presidential election is also a quarter-Senate election.

The Presidential Election tie in is a good simplification, but I'd rather
see at least half a senate election, as the rfc suggests.

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> - -- 
> Duncan C. "" Richer aka
> Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
> Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
> Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:34:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC Office Limits

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, K2 wrote:
> > 
> > > {{[***Senate***]}}
> > > Replace the first sentence of Rule 411 (Senate) with:
> > > The Office of Senator has four Seats. Every 3 months the two seats for
> > > which an election has  not been held for the longest time have their
> > > term of office expire. If more than two seats tie for this distinction,
> > > two seats will be selected at random from amongst the possibilities.
> > 
> > I think this should be concurrent with the Presidency.  Every time the
> > President's seat becomes vacant, for whatever reason (to keep it simple),
> > the Senate seat continuously occupied for the longest is vacated as well.
> > So each Presidential election is also a quarter-Senate election.
> 
> The Presidential Election tie in is a good simplification, but I'd rather
> see at least half a senate election, as the rfc suggests.

That's fine.  It was just an idea, I originally thought that a maximal
senate term of 17 weeks was a bit short.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: DeeJay, get off your ASS

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > I also point out that the traditional deadline for the Bulwer-Lytton "Dark
> > and Stormy" contests was (and still is, I believe) today, because, and I
> > quote, "Americans associate it with another painful submission."
> 
> In Canada, we have until the end of the month.  I plan to do mine this
> coming weekend.
> 
> It's April 5th in Britain, isn't it?

Maybe for payment.  Self-assessment forms had to be in earlier than that
IIRC.

In Australia, the tax year ends on June 30, tax returns must be in by
October 31.

Yours,
Slakko
not an expert on tax law
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:17:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 567 (FALSE)

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> None of the following ways allow the Praetor to unilaterally send public
> messages detailing how e can amend Rule 940.  Therefore e cannot.

Alfvaen realized eir mistake and added that li'l tiny correction in a
later message, I believe.  

To quote from the archives:
- -----------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Beldin's Pants Va

One means of amending neglected,
My face is now much red complected.
The Praetor, of course,
That possessor of force,
Rule 940 may change, once elected.
- -----------------

Looks like we've got two wins.  Alfvaen, if this works I want that
consolation prize back. :-)

> :Or one who reads "The Secret" in
> :"That book", the Ackanomicin.

I'd nominate Alfvaen for Poet Laureate because of this rhyme, but the
results of Proposal 2853 showed me why breadbox holds that Office.

> :Other such means may exist,
> :But no more the Vulcan fist.

Even were the Pyraic Frobnotzer bit to take precedence over R940, 'Vaen
allowed the possibility of other means of modification with this line,
thus giving Frobnotzers (and, I'd say, any other Rule-sanctioned
entities) a fair crack at the Pants.

And, with all this confusion, wouldn't it have been easier simply to say
"Beldin's Pants may be modified as described by the Rules and also
unconditionally by so-and-so?"

- -Hubert, considering changing eir name to Beldin's Tailor

Illiterate? Write today for free help. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 06:08:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: My Eleusis Game

At 01:24 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>So far I have the following players:
>
>Alfvaen
>K 2
>Ayla
>Attila the Pun
>
>Anyone else want to join?  I don't want to be exclusivist like JT.  :-)

Sure, I'll give it a try. I've looked over the rules and have a basic
understanding of the game...

Harf,
Robert Sevin
<http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~mitcharf/>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:29:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 567 (FALSE)

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Hubert wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > None of the following ways allow the Praetor to unilaterally send public
> > messages detailing how e can amend Rule 940.  Therefore e cannot.
> 
> Alfvaen realized eir mistake and added that li'l tiny correction in a
> later message, I believe.  
> 
> To quote from the archives:
> -----------------
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
> From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
> Subject: Acka: Beldin's Pants Va
> 
> One means of amending neglected,
> My face is now much red complected.
> The Praetor, of course,
> That possessor of force,
> Rule 940 may change, once elected.
> -----------------
> 
> Looks like we've got two wins.  Alfvaen, if this works I want that
> consolation prize back. :-)

Bzzzzt again.  Alfvaen was the only nominee for the Office of Praetor when
e was last selected to fill that seat.  According to Rule 402, firstly

e) If there are no eligible volunteers, the Nomination Period shall
continue until there is an eligible volunteer, except in the case of
optional offices.

This is what happened, so as soon as Alfvaen volunteered, the Nomination
Period ended.

Then:

b) If the number of Nominees is the same as the number of vacant Seats for
the Office in question, the appropriate Officer shall announce this fact,
and the Seats shall be filled by the Nominees.  This shall conclude the
Election process; no actual Election shall be held in this case.

So was Alfvaen actually elected or not?  The last sentence would appear to
say that e was not elected, merely that e filled the seat of Praetor
without an election.  Therefore the Praetor was not elected, and hence e
was not able to amend Beldin's Pants.

Yes, this is very technical.  It's Nomic.

> And, with all this confusion, wouldn't it have been easier simply to say
> "Beldin's Pants may be modified as described by the Rules and also
> unconditionally by so-and-so?"

I'm still not sure if that would fall under the category of "described" -
hence my long and verbose description of how it could be amended.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:30:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> Last time this happened, we deemed that the Go Fish was played, just
> pointlessly.  What happens exactly?

The Rules says that to play the Go Fish card one must announe
1) that you are playing it.
2) on which card you are playing it.

I did both these; therefore I played it.  Playing it on the unplayed SYI
had no effect.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:43:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: hmmm....

Interesting, interesting.

Although Rule 940 stated that it could only me amended as described by the
Praetor, no Rule ever gave the Praetor permission to make such a
description.

Rules are entities.  Therefore changing the manner in which a Rule can be
amended is manipulation of an entity.  Manipulation of an entity is only
possible if explicitly permitted by the Rules, or if said manipulation had
no material effect on the game.  I think we can agree that the description
had a material effect on the game.

The result of this is that such a description does not find refuge in
Permissibility of the Unprohibited, and so did not occur.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:53:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: My Eleusis Game

If non-voting players can play (which I assume is the case), I would be
interested in playing :)

Fortunato

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	[email-masked] [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Thursday, April 16, 1998 12:24 AM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Acka: My Eleusis Game
>
>
>So far I have the following players:
>
>Alfvaen
>K 2
>Ayla
>Attila the Pun
>
>Anyone else want to join?  I don't want to be exclusivist like JT.  :-)
>
>
>--
>--Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
>Current Album--Rick Springfield's Greatest Hits
>Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
>There's no accounting for The Dead.  --josh hayes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:18:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Gum

I'm popping the gumball in my mouth.
chew thoughtfully.
discard the wrapper in the conveniently located waste receptacle.
noting before i do:
that the wrapper
is literally covered;
millions of images of the spice girls
so i don't know what everybody else has been chewing

K 2

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:48:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Home Fries.

rufus wrote,

>Alfvaen's attempt seems to have failed, not because there was anything
>truly wrong with it, but because of a little detail.  I am no so sure that
>it would fail on appeal.  However, he showed everyone what the loophole
>was.  That he failed to surf it properly does not make it harfy for
>someone else to do so.  It would be just as unharfy if he were to have
>said, hey look, there is a big gaping hole here, why don't we fix it and
>then someone else came along.  That you had only one chance in fifty
>matters not a whit.  

This situation was not what I generally think of as a loophole -- it was
an open invitation for someone to step in and become dictator.  I hardly
even want to call the subsequent acceptence(s) of this invitation a scam.
IMO, Slakko and Alfvaen's struggle for control is much more interesting,
and, yes, harfy, than the exercise of this rule provision itself.

I have never seen Beldin's pants as much more than an invitation to scam,
and have long expected that cycle wins, if not outright dictatorship
would come from it.  Indeed, one cycle win came from it previously.
Harf has come from it too, to be sure, but this is another thing that I
am tiring of.  I say to dump the whole thing.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:49:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: hmmm....

> Interesting, interesting.

> Although Rule 940 stated that it could only me amended as described by the
> Praetor, no Rule ever gave the Praetor permission to make such a
> description.

> Rules are entities.  Therefore changing the manner in which a Rule can be
> amended is manipulation of an entity.  Manipulation of an entity is only
> possible if explicitly permitted by the Rules, or if said manipulation had
> no material effect on the game.  I think we can agree that the description
> had a material effect on the game.

> The result of this is that such a description does not find refuge in
> Permissibility of the Unprohibited, and so did not occur.

I'd actually tend to think this way myself, which would save us a whole lot
of bother(and me one one of those troublesome Cycle Wins, of course).

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Spice Girls:Spice Up Your Life
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
It might rain money.  It might rain love.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:52:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> > Anyone want to be Financier?  This is too much work.  1/2 :-)

> is that a joke or an offer?

I'm not sure.  I just thought that having screwed up three or four times,
if anyone thought they could do better...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Spice Girls:Spice Up Your Life
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:The Cache
$2.50 for a decade, and a buck and a half for a year

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:59:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: hmmm....

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

>  
> > Interesting, interesting.
> 
> > Although Rule 940 stated that it could only me amended as described by the
> > Praetor, no Rule ever gave the Praetor permission to make such a
> > description.
> 
> > Rules are entities.  Therefore changing the manner in which a Rule can be
> > amended is manipulation of an entity.

This is probably the most questionable part of your hypothesis.  The Rule
itself is not being amended, the Rule's wording remains intact.  How has
the entity itself been manipulated?

Analogy is never a clear way to solve an argument in Acka, but I think
I'll supply one anyway.  Say I download a new HTML Editor.  Have I
manipulated my webpages by doing so?  There's a new way to change them,
but I haven't touched them.

>  Manipulation of an entity is only
> > possible if explicitly permitted by the Rules, or if said manipulation had
> > no material effect on the game.  I think we can agree that the description
> > had a material effect on the game.

This is introducing levels of indirection.  It was not the description
itself which had a material effect on the game, it was the amendment which
the description enabled.

Your argument would make the original Malenkai's Loophole invalid - the
creation of a non-entity, such as "Military Lasers", could not then
suddenly grant someone new powers once the rule came into force, because
that would be a non-entity having a material effect on the game through
one level of indirection.

> > The result of this is that such a description does not find refuge in
> > Permissibility of the Unprohibited, and so did not occur.
> 
> I'd actually tend to think this way myself, which would save us a whole lot
> of bother(and me one one of those troublesome Cycle Wins, of course).
> 
I can see why Guy's argument is persuasive, but those levels of
indirection are what have me concerned.  Once you allow 1 level of
direction, you logically must allow any level of indirection. 
And that leads to a lot of problems.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: hmmm....

On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> 
> Interesting, interesting.
> 
> Although Rule 940 stated that it could only me amended as described by the
> Praetor, no Rule ever gave the Praetor permission to make such a
> description.
> 
> Rules are entities.  Therefore changing the manner in which a Rule can be
> amended is manipulation of an entity.  Manipulation of an entity is only
> possible if explicitly permitted by the Rules, or if said manipulation had
> no material effect on the game.  I think we can agree that the description
> had a material effect on the game.

Another analogy (this time an Acka one).

Is it permissible to amend Rule 1044 so as to provide a new way to
exchange swingpoints?
It changes the manner in which a Swingpoint may be exchanged.  It would
seem by analogy that your argument suggests that this is manipulation of
an entity.  The rules have not specifically allowed the manner in which
Swingpoints may be exchanged to be changed, at least such is not stated in
the rules.  It would have a material effect on the game (at least if
someone tried to use the new tactic).

The same could be said of any entity.  Are we allowed to amend any rule in
such a way as to alter the way an entity behaves, even if the rules do not
explicitly say we can amend the way that entity behaves?
> 
> The result of this is that such a description does not find refuge in
> Permissibility of the Unprohibited, and so did not occur.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 569 (Rex Mundi)

>Rex Mundi has been selected
>
>Clerk of the Courts
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Call For Judgement 569 - April 15, 1998
>Subject: Winning part 3

I am declining judgement.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Inventor Election

The following are the results to the election for inventor:

rufus:
rufus

Slakko:
Slakko

JT:
JT

TGW:
Attila the Pun
Rex Mundi
Rex Mundi's EBS
breadbox
TGW

CnH:
[this space intentionally left blank]

Joe Java:
Joe Java

Hubert:
Alfvaen

Hubert voted BAA! and IdiotBoy, Guy Fawkes, ThinMan, Vynd (+EBS) and /dev/joe
all attempted to vote for /dev/joe.

The upshot of all this is that I'm your new inventor. Yippee!! Thanks for
voting for me everyone. Remember folks, you still have about a day left to
vote for president. Get your vote in now (if you haven't done so already.

Since I am now the new inventor I am going to start construction of a really
big blue thing that doesn't do all that much really (or whatever they're
called, this should be pretty unambiguous).

TGW, Count Tabula, Inventor, Presidential Candidate.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #108
*******************************