Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #101
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Monday, April 13 1998        Volume 03 : Number 101

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Potato

IdiotBoy will
find the Magic Potato
today twelve o'clock.

Alfvaen, your Speaker, is .sigless today
Until that old B-Ack will go away!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Raquel Peres da Silva" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Visiting the Library

I went to the Library, and entered The Vault of the Book. I'm now expecting
something to happen, as described on rule 910/6. If nothing really amazing
happens here, I'll be very desapointed!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Raquel Peres da Silva" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A Call to Action (Slakko)

> There are many new players yet to put a Portrait in, and also a number of
> existing players have been around for months and still have not submitted
> a portrait.

I'm new here and I'd like to submit a portrait to the Portrait Gallery, but
there's no empty picture frame with my name yet. Should I wait until it
appears there, or can I submit my portrait now?

Ayla

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:38:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Help, help, we're being oppressed!

Well, it is embarrassing for me to admit, but probably not much of a
surprise to you all, that I am very busy these days.  So busy that I can't
really keep up with Acka very well.  So proposal 2849 nearly slipped by
me.

Proposal 2849 would establish the Office of the Trouble Shooter.  This
seems like a good thing.  The Trouble Shooter would tidy things up a bit
after the org reforms by taking entities away from orgs that cannot
legally posses them.

The thing is, if you take a look around, there is only one such org:
Vulcan

Only Vulcan posses any entities which an org of its type cannot legally
posses, most notably a number of gadgets.  Now I know what some of you are
thinking.  Why didn't we trade them away from Vulcan before the reforms?
Let me remind you all that it took a very LONG time from the begining of
discussions of org reforms until something was finally passed.  throw in
the fact that these days Vulcan totals about 1 active member between the
three of us and I think you can see why we weren't in a big hurry to do
large-scale transfers.

And now we are threatened with the loss of a great deal of valueable
property.  We cannot trade the entities away, the political party rule
specifically limits parties to trading trinkets, org powers and A$.

I am asking Nicollo to retract this proposal.  I am also asking you all to
vote NO on 2849.  It comes due tommorow, so Niccolo may not retract it in
time.  Let me reiterate that this is a proposal that benefits no one, and
harms Vulcan (and only Vulcan) a great deal.  Taking away Vulcan's
entities is entirely unjust, and unjustifiable.  

If this proposal had simply stated, "Transfer all of Vulcan's possession
save for trinkets, A$ and org powers to the Treasury," I would like to
think that it would be voted down, resoundingly.  Since the above is, in
effect, what this proposal is intended to accomplish, I hope that it will
recieve a similar treatment.  Leaving these entities in Vulcan's
possession a little while longer will harm no one, and you can be sure
that I will soon submit a proposal distributing Vulcan's belongings
amongst our members.  Then there will be no need for this office, and no
one will suffer an unjustified loss of property.  So, once again, I ask
you all to vote NO on proposal 2849.

                                     - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:46:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Help, help, we're being oppressed!

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> The thing is, if you take a look around, there is only one such org:
> Vulcan

Bzzzzt. 
RexBank has a Wool Sweater, and an Otzma Card Go Fish.
Shell #10 has a Whamiol and a Silver Spaceship.

To say this is only affecting Vulcan is to have not looked at the
Player/Entity page lately.

> Only Vulcan posses any entities which an org of its type cannot legally
> posses, most notably a number of gadgets.  Now I know what some of you are
> thinking.  Why didn't we trade them away from Vulcan before the reforms?
> Let me remind you all that it took a very LONG time from the begining of
> discussions of org reforms until something was finally passed.  throw in
> the fact that these days Vulcan totals about 1 active member between the
> three of us and I think you can see why we weren't in a big hurry to do
> large-scale transfers.

Don't you already have one member with proxied approval, thereby only
really requiring two players to explicitly approve to get Vulcan to do
something?

> And now we are threatened with the loss of a great deal of valueable
> property.  We cannot trade the entities away, the political party rule
> specifically limits parties to trading trinkets, org powers and A$.
> 
> I am asking Nicollo to retract this proposal.  I am also asking you all to
> vote NO on 2849.  It comes due tommorow, so Niccolo may not retract it in
> time.  Let me reiterate that this is a proposal that benefits no one, and
> harms Vulcan (and only Vulcan) a great deal.  Taking away Vulcan's
> entities is entirely unjust, and unjustifiable.  
> 
> If this proposal had simply stated, "Transfer all of Vulcan's possession
> save for trinkets, A$ and org powers to the Treasury," I would like to
> think that it would be voted down, resoundingly.  Since the above is, in
> effect, what this proposal is intended to accomplish, I hope that it will
> recieve a similar treatment.

Your first statement in this paragraph is correct.  The second is not -
Vulcan is not the only one targeted.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:47:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A Call to Action (Slakko)

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Raquel Peres da Silva wrote:

> > There are many new players yet to put a Portrait in, and also a number of
> > existing players have been around for months and still have not submitted
> > a portrait.
> 
> I'm new here and I'd like to submit a portrait to the Portrait Gallery, but
> there's no empty picture frame with my name yet. Should I wait until it
> appears there, or can I submit my portrait now?

Submit it to The Gingham Wearer now, I'd say.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:49:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2869

I think that if you want to be a Church Founder you should Found a Church.
This proposal purposely breaks the social dynamics built into the Church
rule, and IMO, is not different from legislating ourselves more a$
because some actin caused us to lose them, or any other fixit proposal.

Mind you, in the case of The Cult of the Markovian Dream, there is no
property to speak of, as the Church transformed to a Cult before Cults
were able to retain any property.

Niccolo Flychuck

 On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> Proposal 2869
> By The Power Of The Golden Frog
> Calvin N Hobbes (Thierry Joffrain)
> 
> {{ This is a modest proposal.
> 
> The Markovian Dream is renamed to the Reincarnated Markovian Dream. Calvin N
> Hobbes will become its founder }}
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:55:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2869

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> I think that if you want to be a Church Founder you should Found a Church.
> This proposal purposely breaks the social dynamics built into the Church
> rule, and IMO, is not different from legislating ourselves more a$
> because some actin caused us to lose them, or any other fixit proposal.

The problem here is that the Markovian Dream's founder is no longer in the
game.  Hence the Church is slightly hard to run, with no ability to ordain
Priests, no ability to change Church Policy or trade entities.  I think
that this proposal made the mistake of temporarily correcting a flaw in
the Church proposal without making it a permanent fix.  

It is not right that a single player leaving the game should permanently
cripple any Churches they might have founded.

> 
> Mind you, in the case of The Cult of the Markovian Dream, there is no
> property to speak of, as the Church transformed to a Cult before Cults
> were able to retain any property.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 05:57:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proselytizing

I request membership in the church of Azpiazu (provided of course that the
worship of Cheez-Whiz does not conflict with the holy nature of banna )

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> Well, I might as well extol the virtues of the Church of Azpiazu...  What
> other Church features a deity with a Basque name, that was, briefly, a
> Frankenstein Monster that allowed Malenkai to win a Cycle?  Not to mention
> holding the Cheez-Whiz holy.  And with some new blood we might actually do
> something sometime.  (I should gather up our Church Policy or something...
> or just start it from scratch.)
>
> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--Holly Cole Trio:Don't Smoke In Bed
> Current Book--Sean Stewart:The Night Watch
> Miscellaneous is always the largest category. --Slovotsky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:38:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: A Call to Action (Slakko)

> I'm new here and I'd like to submit a portrait to the Portrait Gallery, but
> there's no empty picture frame with my name yet. Should I wait until it
> appears there, or can I submit my portrait now?
> 
> Ayla

That's just because lazy ol' me hasn't got round to updating it yet. If you
(or anyone else for that matter) wants to send me a picture then do so,
either as an attachment or just give me the URL.

TGW, assistant web harfer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:38:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 564 (Niccolo)

Niccolo Flychuck has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 564 - April 13, 1998
Subject: Magic Number
Initiator: breadbox (sent April 13, 1998, 03:33)
Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (selected April 13, 1998, 07:36)
Judgement: 

Statement:
The Magic Number is currently 347.

Initiator's Reasoning:
The Rule-Harfer's copy of the rules would seem to indicate that the
base value of the Magic Number, and thus the current Magic Number
itself, is 379. The Scorekeeper's pages clearly indicate that the
Magic Number is 337. (I thank Slakko for pointing out to me this
inconsistency.) However, both of these numbers are wrong.

The Magic Number's base value was 379 at the end of Cycle 17 (at which
time, it should be noted, there was much confusion). Since that Cycle
and the previous one were not won by points, the rules required that
the Magic Number be adjusted downwards. (The Rule-Harfer never made
this change to the rule, which explains the number there.) At the
time, the Scorekeeper announced that the new Magic Number was 337,
since this is the highest prime number less than 379 * 0.9 (thus the
Scorekeeper's number).

However, Rule 666 actually required the Magic Number to be changed to
the smallest prime number greater than 379 * 0.9, which would be 347.

All of these things are trivially true. The real question, then, is
whether the infamous "pragmatism" clause of Rule 701 causes the Magic
Number to actually become 337 instead of 347.

I believe that it does not, because said clause "does not apply to the
case of events which occur automatically, but whose occurrence is not
(or erroneously) reported". While it is customary for the Speaker or
the Scorekeeper to announce the rule changes that take place when Rule
666 is applied, this announcement is in no way required for those
changes to take place, but is done "merely" as a convenience to the
players.

I believe that this fact, and thus the necessary verdict, is also
trivially true. But since this could have a nontrivial impact on the
game state in the near future, the Scorekeeper and I thought it best
to make it official via the appropriate judicial channels.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

The election for Senator went as follows:

Koxvolio:
Slakko
Koxvolio
Koxvolio's EBS

TGW:
TGW
Idiot Boy

Idiot Boy:
Vynd

K 2:
K 2
Alfvaen

Rex Mundi:
Rex Mundi
Rex Mundi's EBS

JT:
Hubert
Joe Java
JT

and /dev/joe tried to vote for Vynd.

If I recall correctly that means I have to pick one of JT and Koxvolio at
random, although it might be JT by right, I can't recall when votes by
non-player entities get ignore in a recount.

The election for DeeJay is also over and the results were as follows:

Alfvaen:
Slakko
JT
/dev/joe
Alfvaen
Rex Mundi
Rex Mundi's EBS

Hubert:
Idiot Boy
Vynd
Joe Java
Hubert
TGW
K 2

Same comments as above except replace "Koxvolio" with "Alfvaen" and "JT" with
"Hubert".

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:35:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Inventor Election

The following have nominated themselves in the election for inventor. Reply
to vote:

Slakko
JT
/dev/joe
rufus
Calvin N Hobbes
Joe Java
Hubert
The Gingham Wearer.

TGW, count tabula.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> If I recall correctly that means I have to pick one of JT and Koxvolio at
> random, although it might be JT by right, I can't recall when votes by
> non-player entities get ignore in a recount.

I believe that is currently only in Hearings.  All Elections still default
to the random winner method IIRC.
> 
> Same comments as above except replace "Koxvolio" with "Alfvaen" and "JT" with
> "Hubert".

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:55:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: Ayla
# To determine what exciting thing happens to Ayla
# upon eir reading a page from the Ackanomicon
# based on the following (using a 50 sided die):
# 1 -15: arcane trivia
# 16-20: vile prophecies
# 21-25: inner workings
# 26-30: arcane lore
# 31-33: terrorizing pages
# 34-34: ancient artifact
# 35-36: mutation
# 37-38: dark domain
# 39-39: the secret
# 40-41: long lost treasure
# 42-43: doomsday
# 44-44: forbidden fruit
# 45-45: catastrophe
# 46-49: not so forbidden fruit
# 50-50: ancient one
# Alfvaen

No. of sides on every die:     50
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     25

Information on the dice server:
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Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Apr 13 06:55:44 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id GAA24715 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 06:55:44 -0700
> Received: from edtntnt1-port-45.agt.net(198.161.157.111) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma024708; Mon Apr 13 06:55:38 1998
> Received: (from alfvaen@localhost) by telusplanet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id HAA04253 for [email-masked]; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:54:55 -0600
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Book
> To: [email-masked]
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:54:54 -0600 (MDT)
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
> Content-Type: text
> 
> 
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 50
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination
> 
> #C Player: Ayla
> #C To determine what exciting thing happens to Ayla
> #C upon eir reading a page from the Ackanomicon
> #C based on the following (using a 50 sided die):
> #C 1 -15: arcane trivia
> #C 16-20: vile prophecies
> #C 21-25: inner workings
> #C 26-30: arcane lore
> #C 31-33: terrorizing pages
> #C 34-34: ancient artifact
> #C 35-36: mutation
> #C 37-38: dark domain
> #C 39-39: the secret
> #C 40-41: long lost treasure
> #C 42-43: doomsday
> #C 44-44: forbidden fruit
> #C 45-45: catastrophe
> #C 46-49: not so forbidden fruit
> #C 50-50: ancient one
> #C Alfvaen
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:56:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: SHEEP

I apply for membership in SHEEP again.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:04:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT Traub <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

According to the rules in 
   Rule 402 section H, subsection 1

If there is a tie, a recount is done with non-player entities being ignored.

- --JT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:07:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT Traub <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

However, on further reading, if the rules fail to specify, then random is
used...
   According to the rules on the Senate (rule 411), there is no specification
for the order, so it should be random. 

Culpa mea on not spotting that before my previous message.

- --JT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:07:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, JT Traub wrote:

> According to the rules in 
>    Rule 402 section H, subsection 1
> 
> If there is a tie, a recount is done with non-player entities being ignored.

However, that is but one of the options.
The default option (as mentioned at the bottom of the rule) is that a
random selection is used.
Sorry, but read the whole rule.

Yours,
Slakko
come on Koxvolio!
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:08:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Those election results

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# First line is senator: 1 for Koxvolio, 2 for JT
# Second line is DeeJay: 1 for Alfvaen, 2 for Hubert

No. of sides on every die:      2
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    2
No. of rolls per line:          1

      2
      1

Information on the dice server:
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   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
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      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Apr 13 07:07:55 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id HAA26206 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:07:55 -0700
> Received: from boober-be.lineone.net(194.75.152.84) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma026159; Mon Apr 13 07:07:45 1998
> Received: from default (host5-99-57-106.btinternet.com [195.99.57.106]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id PAA20761 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:07:42 +0100 (BST)
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
> From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: 
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:07:11 +0100
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Priority: 3
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 2
> #D 1
> #R 2
> #L 1
> #C First line is senator: 1 for Koxvolio, 2 for JT
> #C Second line is DeeJay: 1 for Alfvaen, 2 for Hubert
> #T Acka: Those election results

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4tU0qMJ+Oo52tvx7diKDmJZQD3BgdI1hK3H4XkQfsTa7IulHuBlqXNORtfGjmWvm
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=sslV
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those election results

> # First line is senator: 1 for Koxvolio, 2 for JT
> # Second line is DeeJay: 1 for Alfvaen, 2 for Hubert
> 
> No. of sides on every die:      2
> No. of dice for every roll:     1
> No. of dice rolls requested:    2
> No. of rolls per line:          1
> 
>       2
>       1

Which means that JT is the new Senator, and Alfvaen the new DeeJay. It also
means I've managed to get the dice server to work. Which was a pleasant
surprise. :-)

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SHEEP

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> I apply for membership in SHEEP again.
> 
> TGW.
> 

Make it so.

IB
tired of saying "I approve."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:24:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SHEEP

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Matt Miller wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:
> 
> > I apply for membership in SHEEP again.
> > 
> > TGW.
> > 
> 
> Make it so.
Energize.
(I concur).

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT Traub <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Senate Elections

  While this isn't required (as far as I can tell), I just wanted to say
thank you for giving me the oppurtunity to act as Senator, and I will do
my best to fulfill the job with honor and dignity.

- --JT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:16:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Phoebe

Having spent quite a while running from the b-ack yesterday I started to feel
weird so I decided to duck down behind a bush and hide from it. It was to my
surprise that I discovered that this was in fact a quirpele bush. Originating
in South America this bush has red and blue rectangular flowers. I was trying
to catch my breath when one of the flowers opened up and out popped Phoebe.

"That was really cheap, what you did yesterday!"

"Yeah, I know. Still, at least I had the good sense to leave the orgs I was
in that had any money before I stopped rhyming."

"Now, now" said Phoebe, "be nice. E's not allowed to call a duel against you
at the moment either because you both nominated yourself for Inventor."

I pondered this for a second. "Sorry" I muttered "And sorry for what I did
with the b-ack yesterday. I just thought I had to tell someone."

Phoebe nodded sagely and was just about to withdraw back into her
snug-looking matchbox when I thought of something else I needed to ask her.
"Phoebe," I said, "will I ever win a cycle? I mean, I've tried so many times
now. There was that division by zero paradox win thing, then that crazy
French Scotsman scam I thought of for Banna and now people don't seem to
agree with my interpretation of this Frankenstein monster thing...."

Phoebe thought for a second and then responded thusly:

"You must keep trying and not give up. No-one finds winning cycles easy. Not
even Malenkai. If you perservere then eventually you will be successful."

And with that she returned to her matchbox and I went back to looking out for
the b-ack.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: SHEEP

>On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Matt Miller wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:
>> 
>> > I apply for membership in SHEEP again.
>> > 
>> > TGW.
>> > 
>> 
>> Make it so.
>Energize.
Engage.
(I agree.)

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: In Gaol

It just occurred to me that I am in Gaol, beginning at 17:25 EDT Saturday.
In that time, I attempted to sell all my stocks.  That failed.  I
apologize for any inconvenience to any harfers involved.  This is my third
message of the day, and hence my last until I am released this afternoon.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:55:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Help, help, we're being oppressed!

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:
> 
> > The thing is, if you take a look around, there is only one such org:
> > Vulcan
> 
> Bzzzzt. 
> RexBank has a Wool Sweater, and an Otzma Card Go Fish.
> Shell #10 has a Whamiol and a Silver Spaceship.

RexBank is a VSO, and the Rules don't say anything I can find about what
it can or cannot own.  I admit I missed Shell #10.

> 
> To say this is only affecting Vulcan is to have not looked at the
> Player/Entity page lately.
> 
> > Only Vulcan posses any entities which an org of its type cannot legally
> > posses, most notably a number of gadgets.  Now I know what some of you are
> > thinking.  Why didn't we trade them away from Vulcan before the reforms?
> > Let me remind you all that it took a very LONG time from the begining of
> > discussions of org reforms until something was finally passed.  throw in
> > the fact that these days Vulcan totals about 1 active member between the
> > three of us and I think you can see why we weren't in a big hurry to do
> > large-scale transfers.
> 
> Don't you already have one member with proxied approval, thereby only
> really requiring two players to explicitly approve to get Vulcan to do
> something?
> 

Yes, but this doesn't change the fact that there was no real way of
knowing if and when org reforms would go into affect.  There must have
been at least 4 major proposals in this area, and obviously the first few
of them were not successful.  Not to mention the fact that this is only
marginally related to what should be done with our entities now.

> > And now we are threatened with the loss of a great deal of valueable
> > property.  We cannot trade the entities away, the political party rule
> > specifically limits parties to trading trinkets, org powers and A$.
> > 
> > I am asking Nicollo to retract this proposal.  I am also asking you all to
> > vote NO on 2849.  It comes due tommorow, so Niccolo may not retract it in
> > time.  Let me reiterate that this is a proposal that benefits no one, and
> > harms Vulcan (and only Vulcan) a great deal.  Taking away Vulcan's
> > entities is entirely unjust, and unjustifiable.  
> > 
> > If this proposal had simply stated, "Transfer all of Vulcan's possession
> > save for trinkets, A$ and org powers to the Treasury," I would like to
> > think that it would be voted down, resoundingly.  Since the above is, in
> > effect, what this proposal is intended to accomplish, I hope that it will
> > recieve a similar treatment.
> 
> Your first statement in this paragraph is correct.  The second is not -
> Vulcan is not the only one targeted.
> 

Fine.  If this proposal had stated "Transfer all of entities that are not
trinkets, A$, or org powers from Vulcan and Shell #10 to the Treasury" I
*still* would like to think it would be voted down.  As it stands, the
rules don't seem to forbid Societies from trading things that
Societies aren't allowed to own, as they do for political parties, so
Shell #10 may be able to save their stuff.

All my earlier arguments aside, what is the point of this proposal?  How
does it benefit anyone?  It takes things away from people who have every
right to their ownership, and gives them nothing in return.  It does this
because recent changes in the org rules left some untidy but, so far as
anyone has indicated to date, harmless loopholes.  I don't think the
members of Vulcan, OR Shell #10, should be punished for this.  There are
many ways of dealing with this problem that would be just as easy as
Proposal 2849's solution that do not constitute stealing a couple of
organizations belongings.

                                   - Vynd

[email-masked]

> Yours,
> Slakko
> -- 
> Duncan C. "" Richer aka
> Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
> Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
> Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:59:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 561 (FALSE)

>I appeal this (well the CFJ number is wrong, but I deleted the message
>with the correct number.)  My objection is that the Judge has attempted to
>make the rules do somthing that they don't explicitly do.  The middle Town
>Hall Steps have the names of the Elders on them, but their order is not
>explicitly spelled out.  In fact, neither is their manipulation, so a
>player can reorder them, as this has no effect on game state.  Further,
>the Judge seems to be introducing the concept of legislative intent.  Acka
>has been free of this, and the rules do what they say, even when it is
>clear to all that what they say is not what they were intended to say.
>(Common sense reports excluded;  but there is a check to them.)  This
>leads to some silly situations; but it prevents more problems than in
>causes.

The order of the steps is not _explicitly_ spelled out.  But the first judge
has determined that the rule describes the situation sufficiently well
that it does implicitly determine the assignment of names to steps.  Simply
saying that he is wrong is not much of an argument, although the assertion may
be true.  If he is correct, however, then the appealer's assertion that a
player can reorder them is false.  It is true that legislative intent is
not given appreciable legal standing in Ackanomic, but it is not clear to
me that the verdict rendered depends on such to be correct.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:03:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: CFJ 562

>>2) It is not unmistakably spelled out in the rules how to determine which
>>   step has MLF's name on it, but it is nonetheless quite possible that it
>>   may be determined by CFJ.  That would render it possible to determine.
>
>It is difficult for me at least to see on what basis this would be decided.
>Do judges of CFJs have the power to render arbitrary judgements in areas
>where the rules are silent?

Arbitrary, no, but judges do have game custom and the spirit of the game
to rely upon.  Furthermore, the whole purpose of CFJs is to determine what
the rules say and how they apply to a particular situation.  Thus it is
a natural suggestion that the positioning of the names on the steps is
sufficiently described in the rule that a CFJ could settle the matter in
the case of a dispute.  The particular CFJ filed in this matter could
have been judged false on such grounds (in theory, at least) without any
reference whatsoever to any _particular_ ordering of the names.  There
are examples of similar situations in the CFJ archives.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:43:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ian K." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Report (senator and DeeJay)

Aren't Evil Ballot Stuffers grrrreat?

JT should have had it anyway, from a practical point of view. He has more
experience.

Koxvolio

> The election for Senator went as follows:
> 
> Koxvolio:
> Slakko
> Koxvolio
> Koxvolio's EBS
> 
> TGW:
> TGW
> Idiot Boy
> 
> Idiot Boy:
> Vynd
> 
> K 2:
> K 2
> Alfvaen
> 
> Rex Mundi:
> Rex Mundi
> Rex Mundi's EBS
> 
> JT:
> Hubert
> Joe Java
> JT
> 
> and /dev/joe tried to vote for Vynd.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ian K." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Portrait

Why exactly am I pictured as Karma in the portrait gallery?

Grrrrr

Koxvolio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: SHEEP_NF

Just so we are all in the same pasture, as it were:  I believe that
Niccolo Flychuck is a member of SHEEP.   At least one of the pages (the
orgs one?) does not reflect this.

Niccolo, we'll need your approval to allow TGW back in as soon as
possible.

IB
annoying before it was a crime

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:54:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Stefanski <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Postmasterness

On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

- ->Along with the usual random bounces, Illusion's email has been
- ->bouncing with a vengeance. It has finally been three days, so I am
- ->gratefully exercising my privilege as Postmaster and moving Illusion
- ->over to the digests.

	Aah.. such timing.  My mail goes down due to a power outage here at
work for just long enough...  :(

 *---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
   Andrew Stefanski                                            Motorola LMPS 
              UNRECOVERABLE USER ERROR - Terminating Current User

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Raquel Peres da Silva" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2869

On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > I think that if you want to be a Church Founder you should Found a
Church.
> > This proposal purposely breaks the social dynamics built into the
Church
> > rule, and IMO, is not different from legislating ourselves more a$
> > because some actin caused us to lose them, or any other fixit proposal.
> 
> The problem here is that the Markovian Dream's founder is no longer in
the
> game.  Hence the Church is slightly hard to run, with no ability to
ordain
> Priests, no ability to change Church Policy or trade entities.  I think
> that this proposal made the mistake of temporarily correcting a flaw in
> the Church proposal without making it a permanent fix.  
> 
> It is not right that a single player leaving the game should permanently
> cripple any Churches they might have founded.

I understand Markovian Dream's problem, but I agree with Uri when he says
that, in order to be a Church Founder, you should found a church. I think
the best way to prevent founders from causing unrecoverable damage to the
Churches when leaving the game would be creating a rule to transfer all the
founder's rights and obligations to - let's say - the Senior Priest, as
described on rule 1301/24. Therefore, I anounce my intention to vote NO for
proposal 2869 and to submit a proposal as described above. Sugestions and
comments are welcome.

Ayla

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:40:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Mashing with the Tater.

Hi, I'm IdiotBoy and in the next 30 minutes I'm going to share with you
the most amazing discovery of the 20th Century!

Ahhh, forget it. I don't have the energy.  I am exercising my privledge as
Beldin's Tailor to amend the rule known as Beldin's Pants.

Replace the word "Garment" with "rule".

IB
hoping the 4th comes early this year  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:53:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Help, help, we're being oppressed!

	Speaking of which, could one of the members of Shell#10 make an
appropriate suggestion so we can legally own gadgets?  I still don't have
access to a copy of the rules (this is getting increasingly annoying...)

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:03:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Swingpoints and Stabber's Knives report 13/4

The following Swingpoints were awarded at noon today:

I. Swinger Weight Swingpoints

8: Niccolo Flychuck
7: The Gingham Wearer
6: Slakko
5: /dev/joe
4: Hubert
4: Guy Fawkes (these two were equal 5th on 15 weight).

II. Fair Play Swingpoints
2: Attila the Pun
2: /dev/joe
2: two-star

III. Party Swingpoints
The top Party Swinger is TGW, so all other members of Klingon gain 1.
1: Rex Mundi
1: else...if

The following exchanges were made since the last report:

Karma transferred 10 Swingpoints to Koxvolio.
11 April: TGW used 4 Swingpoints to get 1 Bonus Vote

Total Swingpoints
58 /dev/joe
53 Slakko
46 Niccolo Flychuck
35 Alfvaen
31 Red Barn
22 The Gingham Wearer
10 Koxvolio
 9 rufus
 6 Guy Fawkes
 6 Hubert
 5 Malenkai
 5 Fortunato
 3 ThinMan
 3 Vynd
 3 two-star
 2 Balsamic Dragon
 2 breadbox
 2 Wild Card
 2 Attila the Pun
 1 Rex Mundi
 1 else...if

Stabber's Knives awarded:

18/1/98: Slakko (/dev/joe surrendered)
10/2/98: Slakko, The Gingham Wearer (Red Barn surrendered)
11/4/98: The Gingham Wearer (Alfvaen surrendered)

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #101
*******************************