Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #63
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Tuesday, March 17 1998        Volume 03 : Number 063

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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:42:33 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 539 (Vynd)

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > I'm not sure who this goes to and don't really have time to check, but in the
> > event that it shouldn't have been assigned to Alfvaen then my dice have
> > selected Vynd. I'll leave it up to all you lot to figure out who it really
> > goes to.
> 
> I believe, then, that Vynd is the real judge for this CFJ.
> 

I find myself in the difficult position of not being able to answer the
question posed in this CFJ (How tall is the Tower of Bandwidth?)  This
information seems to have been lost to us.  I'll be forced to rule
UNDECIDED unless someone can steer me towards a record of this, its not on
the Houses and Towers page.

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

> 
> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Song In My Head--Weird Al Yankovic:Another One Rides The Bus
> Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
> Damn!  Another Romulan Warbird got sucked into the warp engines!
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 03:02:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 539 (Vynd)

> I find myself in the difficult position of not being able to answer
> the question posed in this CFJ (How tall is the Tower of Bandwidth?)
> This information seems to have been lost to us.  I'll be forced to
> rule UNDECIDED unless someone can steer me towards a record of this,
> its not on the Houses and Towers page.

I believe I can provide some information on this, if my guess as to
what Malenkai had in mind is correct. I'll do some digging and post my
findings tomorrow.

breadbox

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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:18:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: senate election results

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> 
> 
> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > I say, eliminate it. The Senate was never necessary.
> > 
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> Neither was the Presidency, but I really like that Rule, since it provides
> us with some ellection harfiness every eight weeks, and it does give Acka
> a ceremonial figurehead (which has been useful on a few occasions).
> Still, the Senate should be eliminated, or at the very lest altered to
> provide for term limits.

Actually, the Presidency does perform an important role.  It stops the
Speaker being completely overburdened with extra jobs when someone leaves
- - as Functional Offices are performed by the President by Default until
such time as a replacement is needed.

I think that having two people to cover missing jobs is a good idea given
that Acka seems to have more posts than people.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "not to mention the Stripe Ceremonies" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns..cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:28:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > 3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace of
> > such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
> > for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
> > infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through the
> > system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the three,
> > but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.
> 
> I like this one.  Maybe it should be "sudden death", so that at the moment
> it achieves quorum no further votes are counted, but that's susceptible to
> Huberting.

Huberting could well be a problem.  Perhaps it should be a single 3-day
extension period.  If it fails then, then the Puppet Heads are delivered,
but we modify Puppet Heads to only last for 4 days before making people
non-voting.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:43:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: senate election results

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > I say, eliminate it. The Senate was never necessary.
> > 
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> Neither was the Presidency, but I really like that Rule, since it provides
'was' being the keu word here. The President does have a significant role
now, being default acting functional officer, having taken on the roles of
the defunct Appointer office

Niccolo Flychuck

> us with some ellection harfiness every eight weeks, and it does give Acka
> a ceremonial figurehead (which has been useful on a few occasions).
> Still, the Senate should be eliminated, or at the very lest altered to
> provide for term limits.
> 
> GF
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:49:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> 
> 3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace of
> such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
> for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
> infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through the
> system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the three,
> but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.

I don't like 1 and 2 at all. 3 would be acceptable if it limited to two 3
- -day extensions, or 7 days.

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> I welcome comments on these ideas, particularlyfrom the breadbox -- if
> any of these would be exceptionally cumbersome for the Officer in charge
> of it to track, I'm not going to propose it.
> 
> GF
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:52:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Akca: Proposal 2780 - retraction

While I disagree with Slakko's interpretation, I  have seen strager things
take place in Acka.

I am retracting proposal 2780, and will resubmit it with a safety net.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > As far as I can see, all political parties would be turned into societies,
> > but then given A$300.  This would destroy all the Party Swinger offices,
> 
> I don't see how you make that.  Section I of the proposal amend R1009
> completely to be a rule which defines a type of Organization - which turns
> all parties into rule-sanctioned Organizations. 
> Once this happens, Parties are no longer effected by any reference to
> Player sanctioned Organizations further down in the proposal.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> > as far as I can see, because a Swinger's Office only exists as long as the
> > associated partydoes.  I would rather have the double-brace-delimited
> > text:
> > 
> > > {{Rename this rule - 'Political Partiesand Rewarding Party Unity'
> > > Each Political Party receives A$300. All Big Tents are destroyed.}} 
> > > " 
> > 
> > with {{Each Player-Sanctioned Organization which possesses a big tent
> > is a Political Party.  All Big Tents are then destroyed.}}
> > 
> >This would guarantee the continuity with Party Chess.
> > 
> > The rest of the proposal, though, I am quite happy with.
> > 
> > - -- 
> > Duncan C. "" Richer aka
> > Slakko (Lost)Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
> > Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
> > Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:10:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 539 (Vynd)

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> I believe I can provide some information on this, if my guess as to
> what Malenkai had in mind is correct. I'll do some digging and post my
> findings tomorrow.

I erected the Monument to Futility on November 1, 1996 (incidentally,
this was the first day when Priests prayed against floods. I believe the
Tower of Bandwidth was built at a similar time.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:10:11 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: acka: senate election results

Vynd wrote:

>Hehehehe.  I was wondreing if anyone would bother to notice before the
>election was concluded that I wasn't a legal candidate.  If you hadn't
>said something Slakko, I was going to explore the possibilities of the 14
>day limit...
>
>In any event, we might want to consider doing, um, SOMETHING, with the
>Senate.  We could eliminate it, or we could give it more duties so that
>people might actually pay a LITTLE bit more attention to it in the future.

I _knew_ Vynd was already a Senator when I voted for him.  I thought it
might be fun if he could manage to hold two Senate seats at the same time.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:46:03 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:04:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

> > 3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace
of
> > such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
> > for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
> > infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through
the
> > system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the
three,
> > but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.
> 
> I like this one.  Maybe it should be "sudden death", so that at the moment
> it achieves quorum no further votes are counted, but that's susceptible to
> Huberting.

How so? Presumably the initial seven days would still be there. That way
anyone who could get their votes in in seven days would have nothing to worry
about. If you don't get your votes in on time then you deserve anything you
get. Also, the tabulator need not say how the voting currently stands so
people wouldn't be able to antivote depending on the voting that had already
taken place.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:03:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 546 (FALSE)

Vynd has judged this FALSE

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 546 - March 07, 1998
Subject: Balsamic Dragon's Elderhood
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent March 07, 1998, 18:09)
Judge: Hibert (deadbeat)
Second Judge: Hubert (declined)
Third Judge: Vynd (selected March 16, 17:39)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:
Balsamic Dragon's likeness is in the Hall of Elders.

Initiator's Reasoning:
What this really boils down to is the whole Vacation thing.  February 27th
is "mr cwm's Day", by Rule 843, and this is an Ackanomic Holiday.  It has
been put forward that this means it is also a Holiday by Rule 415.  I know
that game custom has never treated it this way in the many months I have
been in the game, unless all the Ackanomic Holidays are clustered in March
and April and I just never had run across them before.  :-)  (Actually,
there is quite a cluster in April, with "this is not a holiday",
"Brinjal's Day", and "Bascule's Day", not to mention "Mr. Lunatic Fringe's
day on March 31st.)  But what about Wayne's Day, on October 13th?  Habeous
Corpus's Day, July 13th?  (Okay, things were chaotic enough at that time
that we might not have noticed, and anyway HC was an active player at
that time, possibly as Voting Gnome.)  IdiotBoy's Day on August 30th?

The question of whether an "Ackanomic Holiday" is a "Holiday" may or may
not be a subtle one.  If it were a Holiday, why has past game custom
dictated that it is not?  Is this another "military laser" situation,
where what seems to be a straightforward correspondence of types is
nothing of the sort?  Since it affects Balsamic Dragon's Elderhood(but,
luckily, not many other thread-splitting events), I think we should know.

Judge's Reasoning:
While it is certainly plausible that Ackanomic Holidays (Rule 843) and
Holidays (Rule 415) are the same thing, the rules do not tell us one way
or another.  Alfvaen is correct in his belief that custom indicates that
Ackanomic Holidays are not Holidays such as declared by the President.
Thus deadlines would not be extended over player's days such as mr cwm's
day.  Since the rules are unclear, it is this custom that holds sway.

Since Balsamic Dragon did not recieve the required support for her
Elderhood in the three days following her nomination (including mr cwm's
day), she was not inducted into the hall, and her likeness does not appear
there.  The statement of this CFJ is FALSE.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:03:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Retraction

I am retracting CFJ 548. It seems almost certain to be judged false and I
don't particularly want the goose.

TGW.

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End of ackanomic digest V3 #63
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