Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #62
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Monday, March 16 1998        Volume 03 : Number 062

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 02:18:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: senate election results

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> In any event, we might want to consider doing, um, SOMETHING, with the
> Senate.  We could eliminate it, or we could give it more duties so that
> people might actually pay a LITTLE bit more attention to it in the future.

I say, eliminate it. The Senate was never necessary.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 02:25:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Departure

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > 
> > Isn't that what they are getting now?
> 
> No, currently it's n/3 rounded down. Currently a six player unity vote gets
> two extra votes but with this it would change to three.
> 
> TGW.

I see, in that case I would be against that change.

As for Unity No votes. We had that, and the reason it was amended out of
the rules is that it agave a single 5-member party the ability to bock the
passage of all proposals, which at that time required a 2/3 majority.
The history books note that period as the Underworld Strike.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 02:26:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Discovery

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Hubert wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > Unless it's "xanthelosmoidea".  Which likes right to me, but then so did
> > "exhilirate" until a few years ago.  I think I got it for one of the
> > four-word stories on my web page.  "God Years", I think.
> 
> Alfvaen could very well be right; the Official Dictionary found no word
> matching either my spelling or eirs.  I got it from an old Bloom County
> cartoon, and liked it better than "antidisestablishmentarianism" and other
> similarly obfuscated words.
> 
> - -Hubert
> 
I'd say this presents an agathokakological attitude.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:46:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Word un-association round 9

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> It is Hubert's go as linker and e must link from start.

The new uh? word is "trouble."

- -Hubert

Think of it as evolution in action. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:53:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Word un-association round 9

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Hubert wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:
> 
> > It is Hubert's go as linker and e must link from start.
> 
> The new uh? word is "trouble."

Isn't it possible to "start trouble"?
Making this an unsuitable uh? word?

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:05:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Word un-association round 9

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Hubert wrote:
> 
> Isn't it possible to "start trouble"?
> Making this an unsuitable uh? word?

I thought it was sufficiently removed, but my judgment on the matter isn't
quite the same as the Ref's, as the last few rounds have showed.  The last
uh? word was a joke.  The new uh? word is "braid."

Technically, it's possible to start any action.  Braiding, for instance.
But since "starting trouble" is a cliche (sort of) and starting a braid
shouldn't be, I hope this one satisfies the peanut gallery. :-)

- -Hubert

Think of it as evolution in action. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 05:00:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Departure

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > Isn't that what they are getting now?
> > 
> > No, currently it's n/3 rounded down. Currently a six player unity vote gets
> > two extra votes but with this it would change to three.
> > 
> > TGW.
> 
> I see, in that case I would be against that change.

Currently there is only one reasonable size for a Political Party - namely
3 players.  It is far more than twice as difficult to get six players
voting together as three players.  A system which only encourages one size
of political party doesn't really lead to much diversification.

Perhaps we should make it (n-1)/2 party votes, rounded down.  So the 2nd
unity vote kicks in at 5, the third at 7 etc.  This might encourage the
formation of a 5 player party.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 05:30:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Actions

I ask, politely, to be placed in the Mentor pool.

I call a Public Health Emergency against The Gingham Wearer for eir public
response to my Gecko Treasure, for which I had requested responses
privately.  TGW requests that all players vote to diagnose em as infected 
with this heinous disease.

Count Tabula, please do that thing you do.  (And do so well.)

- -Hubert

Think of it as evolution in action. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:16:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: senate election results

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> I say, eliminate it. The Senate was never necessary.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

Neither was the Presidency, but I really like that Rule, since it provides
us with some ellection harfiness every eight weeks, and it does give Acka
a ceremonial figurehead (which has been useful on a few occasions).
Still, the Senate should be eliminated, or at the very lest altered to
provide for term limits.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:45:31 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: CFJ 539 (Vynd)

> I'm not sure who this goes to and don't really have time to check, but in the
> event that it shouldn't have been assigned to Alfvaen then my dice have
> selected Vynd. I'll leave it up to all you lot to figure out who it really
> goes to.

I believe, then, that Vynd is the real judge for this CFJ.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Weird Al Yankovic:Another One Rides The Bus
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
Damn!  Another Romulan Warbird got sucked into the warp engines!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:22:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: SBoC

I am reading the next page (8) of my Spell Book of Chorg. It disappears in a
spectacular flash of chartreuse light.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:10:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: 980316 Swingpoints and Stabber's Knives Summary

Swingpoints and Stabber's Knives for fortnight ending 16th March 1998:

Swingpoints:
Type I: Swinger Weight Swingpoints

7: Slakko
6: Niccolo Flychuck
5: Alfvaen
4: The Gingham Wearer
3: /dev/joe

Type II: Fair Play Awards

4: /dev/joe
2: Hubert

Type III: Party Loyalty
SPAM was the Party with the weightiest Swinger.
1: rufus
1: Wild Card

Current totals:

46 /dev/joe
40 Slakko
36 Niccolo Flychuck
32 Alfvaen
31 Red Barn
10 Karma
12 The Gingham Wearer
 8 rufus
 5 Malenkai
 5 Fortunato
 3 ThinMan
 3 Vynd
 2 Balsamic Dragon
 2 breadbox
 2 Hubert
 1 two-star
 1 Wild Card

No Stabber's Knives were awarded in the last fortnight.

Totals:
 2 Slakko
 1 The Gingham Wearer

Yours,
Slakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:17:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Quorum failure

The following players have been issued Puppet Heads:

breadbox
Goldenmean
Guy Fawkes
Hubert
Illusion
K 2
rufus
Rex Mundi
ThinMan
Vynd
Wild Card

I really feel bad about this. There were enough votes *after* the
deadline had passed to put this over quorum, and I'm sure at least
some of them were late due to muppetlabs.com having been crashed all
night Friday. (That's the reason I didn't get my vote in, anyway.)
Unfortunately, the rules mandate that a private message "occurs" when
the message is received, not sent. But then, if it weren't that way,
I'd have to wait five days or more after every deadline in case more
stray email showed up. In short, that's life on the net.

In any case, my apologies to all.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:31:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Stripend

I present myself with a Silver Stripe for having attained a Blue Cross
Rank of 50.  This is organised at a public ceremony, at which barely more
than half of the populace are in attendance.

Yours,
Slakko
el Presidente de la Gumball

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:36:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Andrew Stefanski)
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:00:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> I call a Public Health Emergency against The Gingham Wearer for eir public
> response to my Gecko Treasure, for which I had requested responses
> privately.  TGW requests that all players vote to diagnose em as infected 
> with this heinous disease.

I'd just like to confirm that this is indeed the case. Twice in one week
really is too much.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:03:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:07:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Sigh...

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:25:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: the recent quorum failure

The recent quorum failure got me thinking a bit on how to avoid a
situation like that again -- how to avoid a mass quorum failure due in
part to the Tabulator's inability to receive votes.  I have a few ideas:

1) Specify the voting period as ending when the Tabulator distributes
votes, but lasting at least seven days.  [Naturally specifying that it is
the duty of the Tabulator to distribute the voting results as soon as
possible after the seven days.]

2) Empower the Tabulator to extend the voting period of all Proposals in
the queue by up to three days.  I don't like this one quite so much, since
if the Tabulator was unable to communicate eir inability to receive votes,
it wouldn't do much good.  Also, it is open to somewhat more abuse than
the previous one.

3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace of
such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through the
system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the three,
but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.

I welcome comments on these ideas, particularly from the breadbox -- if
any of these would be exceptionally cumbersome for the Officer in charge
of it to track, I'm not going to propose it.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:23:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Kill George Bush. (No,
wait, those are the alternate lyrics....)

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the Puppet Head.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:29:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

> 1) Specify the voting period as ending when the Tabulator distributes
> votes, but lasting at least seven days.  [Naturally specifying that it is
> the duty of the Tabulator to distribute the voting results as soon as
> possible after the seven days.]

Personally, I like this one best. I don't particularly like the idea of
quorum anyhow so any ways of toning it down would be much appreciated by
myself.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:59:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Kill George Bush. (No,
> wait, those are the alternate lyrics....)
> 
> Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the Puppet Head.
> 
  Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the Puppet Head.

  (And don't go away for the weekend without voting...)

 Wild Card.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:16:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Declination & Memo

If I can still do so, I decline judgment on CFJ 546.

Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

And then get sued by it for sexual harassment.

- -Hubert

Windows 95: another fine product of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation... 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:34:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Paradox

This sentence is false.

If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket valued
at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
follows:

"It is a scroll reading as follows:

I very much doubt that this will work but I may as well give it a go, despite
it being very cheap and nasty. If this gets through then we definitely need
to change the rules. I can't actually see any reason why it shouldn't though,
although I'll bet that if it gets judged true then it's almost certain to be
appealed."

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:38:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 548

Goldenmean has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 548 - March 16, 1998
Subject: Liar's Paradox
Initiator: The Gingham Wearer (sent March 16, 1998, 22:36)
Judge: Goldenmean (selected March 16, 1998, 22:37)
Judgement: 

Statement:
The action of The Gingham Wearer destroying the trinket "A Cheap Attempt at a
Paradox Win" for A$ appears equally legal and illegal.

Initiator's Reasoning:
Game custom strongly supports the fact that conditional actions are allowed
therefore when The Gingham Wearer posted the following message:

"This sentence is false.

If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket valued
at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
follows:

"It is a scroll reading as follows:

I very much doubt that this will work but I may as well give it a go, despite
it being very cheap and nasty. If this gets through then we definitely need
to change the rules. I can't actually see any reason why it shouldn't though,
although I'll bet that if it gets judged true then it's almost certain to be
appealed."

TGW."

e would have created the trinket if the sentence "This sentence is false."
was true. I'm sure I don't have to explain the liar's paradox to you lot but
I will do anyhow. If the sentence is true then it must be false (it says it
is) however if it is false then what the sentence says is true. Therefore it
is impossible to determine whether or not the sentence is true. Therefore it
is impossible to determine whether or not the trinket was created. If it was
created then it can be destroyed, if it wasn't then it can't. Hence it
appears equally legal and illegal to destroy the trinket.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:41:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 546 (Vynd)

Hubert has declined judgement. Vynd has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 546 - March 07, 1998
Subject: Balsamic Dragon's Elderhood
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent March 07, 1998, 18:09)
Judge: Hibert (deadbeat)
Second Judge: Hubert (declined)
Third Judge: Vynd (selected March 16, 17:39)
Judgement:

Statement:
Balsamic Dragon's likeness is in the Hall of Elders.

Initiator's Reasoning:
What this really boils down to is the whole Vacation thing.  February 27th
is "mr cwm's Day", by Rule 843, and this is an Ackanomic Holiday.  It has
been put forward that this means it is also a Holiday by Rule 415.  I know
that game custom has never treated it this way in the many months I have
been in the game, unless all the Ackanomic Holidays are clustered in March
and April and I just never had run across them before.  :-)  (Actually,
there is quite a cluster in April, with "this is not a holiday",
"Brinjal's Day", and "Bascule's Day", not to mention "Mr. Lunatic Fringe's
day on March 31st.)  But what about Wayne's Day, on October 13th?  Habeous
Corpus's Day, July 13th?  (Okay, things were chaotic enough at that time
that we might not have noticed, and anyway HC was an active player at
that time, possibly as Voting Gnome.)  IdiotBoy's Day on August 30th?

The question of whether an "Ackanomic Holiday" is a "Holiday" may or may
not be a subtle one.  If it were a Holiday, why has past game custom
dictated that it is not?  Is this another "military laser" situation,
where what seems to be a straightforward correspondence of types is
nothing of the sort?  Since it affects Balsamic Dragon's Elderhood(but,
luckily, not many other thread-splitting events), I think we should know.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:43:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

>3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace of
>such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
>for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
>infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through the
>system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the three,
>but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.
	I think this one looks good, assuming it's not to difficult to harf.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Paradox

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> This sentence is false.
> 
> If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket valued
> at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
> follows:

The truth value of the first sentence of your message is not true, nor
false, but indeterminate.  Therefore the trinket is not created.

Yours,
Slakko
just my mu opinion

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:41:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Paradox

> > This sentence is false.
> > 
> > If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket
valued
> > at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
> > follows:
> 
> The truth value of the first sentence of your message is not true, nor
> false, but indeterminate.  Therefore the trinket is not created.

The way I'd always understood logic was as follows:

x (not-true)=x (false)
x (not-false)=x (true)

By that I mean that if something is not true then it is false and if it is
not false then it is true. Indeed, I believe this may be one of the basic
axioms of mathematics. If we had changed our logic system then we wouldn't be
getting any paradoxes. And game custom clearly shows that there have been
paradox wins in the past. I believe the most recent one was Mohammed's Party
chess one about the copy cats. So let's take that as an example. Well, no,
it's not equally legal and illegal, it's indeterminately legal. In that case
wouldn't the PWCFJ have had to have been judged false?

I'm not saying I think I'm definitely right, I'm just saying that I don't
think this can be shrugged off that easily. So Goldenmean, when you're
judging it, please don't do so, ass if you do then I will be forced to appeal
(well, okay, not forced, but I will do anyhow :-)).

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:56:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Paradox

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > > This sentence is false.
> > > 
> > > If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket
> valued
> > > at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
> > > follows:
> > 
> > The truth value of the first sentence of your message is not true, nor
> > false, but indeterminate.  Therefore the trinket is not created.
> 
> The way I'd always understood logic was as follows:
> 
> x (not-true)=x (false)
> x (not-false)=x (true)

This is assuming that every single thing must have some logic value.

What is the value of "banana"?  True? False?
It has no truth value.
Why must your first sentence have a truth value?

> By that I mean that if something is not true then it is false and if it is
> not false then it is true. Indeed, I believe this may be one of the basic
> axioms of mathematics. If we had changed our logic system then we wouldn't be
> getting any paradoxes. And game custom clearly shows that there have been
> paradox wins in the past. I believe the most recent one was Mohammed's Party
> chess one about the copy cats. So let's take that as an example. Well, no,
> it's not equally legal and illegal, it's indeterminately legal. In that case
> wouldn't the PWCFJ have had to have been judged false?
> 
> I'm not saying I think I'm definitely right, I'm just saying that I don't
> think this can be shrugged off that easily. So Goldenmean, when you're
> judging it, please don't do so, ass if you do then I will be forced to appeal
> (well, okay, not forced, but I will do anyhow :-)).

Remember my attempt to paradox win involving a false statement in a
newspaper?  That happened back in December I think.  Anyway, the
discussion involving that almost led to Ackan logic being changed to lump
indeterminate and false together.  Therefore I believe there is
significant game custom that the logic value of "indeterminate" exists
within Acka, and nothing prevents the "This sentence is false." sentence
from having an "indeterminate" truth value.  Indeed, it cannot be true,
and it cannot be false, so it must be indeterminate.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:21:08 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

And I mean it this time.

                                     - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:33:19 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: the recent quorum failure

> 1) Specify the voting period as ending when the Tabulator distributes
> votes, but lasting at least seven days.  [Naturally specifying that it is
> the duty of the Tabulator to distribute the voting results as soon as
> possible after the seven days.]

This is the simplest in practice, but somehow seems less elegant to me.  :-)

> 2) Empower the Tabulator to extend the voting period of all Proposals in
> the queue by up to three days.  I don't like this one quite so much, since
> if the Tabulator was unable to communicate eir inability to receive votes,
> it wouldn't do much good.  Also, it is open to somewhat more abuse than
> the previous one.

No, I don't like it much either, although it does have something in common
with the Chess-Umpire's ability to extend player deadlines three days.
Also, I had considered the possibility of the Clerk of the Courts being
able to grant extensions on verdicts as well, on request...

> 3) Whenever a proposal fails quorum, the Tabulator informs the populace of
> such and the proposal is automatically requeued for an extension period
> for it to collect more votes.  This could be arranged to continue ad
> infinitum, or kill the proposal after a finite number of times through the
> system.  This particular idea has the lowest abuse potential of the three,
> but it does entail a wee bit more complexity in proposal queueing.

I like this one.  Maybe it should be "sudden death", so that at the moment
it achieves quorum no further votes are counted, but that's susceptible to
Huberting.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Massive Attack:Blue Lines
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
Active hornet's nest will make construction unnecessary.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:11:00 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Potato

breadbox found the Magic Potato at noon today.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--They Might Be Giants:Apollo 18
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
The worthy machine ought not always paste the astronomer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:11:27 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Re: FW: farewell

> 3) I create a trinket known as "a fine work of art" valued at all of my remaining 
> ackadollars describe as follows  
> "a handsome bust done in marble of a man with a ridiculously large nose and 
> an extremely small mouth.  Bushy eyebrows obscure deep set beady eyes and 
> what appears to be a tricorne cap is perched atop the statue. A pipe dangles at 
> a jaunty angle from the mouth and a small gold plaque at the bottom bears the 
> inscription [king of pirates]."
> 4) I donate a fine work of art to the museum

It seems that this fails because Bill the pirate king was not at the Museum.
Maybe I'll see if I can do something about that.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--They Might Be Giants:Apollo 18
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
"Ride the wild smurf, Druid!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:11:31 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Paradox

> > This sentence is false.

> > If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a trinket valued
> > at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win" with a description as
> > follows:

> The truth value of the first sentence of your message is not true, nor
> false, but indeterminate.  Therefore the trinket is not created.

I remember coming to somewhat the same conclusion on one of the PWCFJ's I
judged.  I think mr cwm had put "This statement is false" into eir
newspaper, demanded its retraction, and then refused to retract.  CFJ
394, it turns out.  Recommended reading for the Judge, since it did set
a precedent.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--They Might Be Giants:Apollo 18
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
"Belinda's being all, you know."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:15:45 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Fortnightly Dividends March 16, 1998

Score changes used for dividend calculation:
- --------------------------------------------
Alfvaen: 21
Attila the Pun: 0
breadbox: 4
Calvin N Hobbes: 17
Crackfoo: -8
/dev/joe: 17
else...if: 26
Enigma: -5
Fortunato: -1
The Gingham Wearer: -14
Goldenmean: 10
Guy Fawkes: 32
Hoover 2300: -1
Hubert: -8
Illusion: 26
K 2: 13
Karma: 0
Niccolo Flychuck: 19
Red Barn: -5
Rex Mundi: 3
Robert Sevin: 0
rufus: -9
Slakko: 5
ThinMan: 0
two-star: -5
Vynd: -5
Wild Card: 40
 
Fortnightly Dividends
- ---------------------
Alfvaen: 21.0  -->  21
Attila the Pun: 0.0  -->  0
breadbox: 4.0  -->  4
Calvin N Hobbes: 17.0  -->  17
Crackfoo: -4.0  -->  -8/2
/dev/joe: 17.0  -->  17
else...if: 26.0  -->  26
Enigma: -2.5  -->  -5/2
Fortunato: -0.5  -->  -1/2
The Gingham Wearer: -7.0  -->  -14/2
Goldenmean: 10.0  -->  10
Guy Fawkes: 32.0  -->  32
Hoover 2300: -0.5  -->  -1/2
Hubert: -4.0  -->  -8/2
Illusion: 26.0  -->  26
K 2: 13.0  -->  13
Karma: 0.0  -->  0
Niccolo Flychuck: 19.0  -->  19
Red Barn: -2.5  -->  -5/2
Rex Mundi: 3.0  -->  3
Robert Sevin: 0.0  -->  0
rufus: -4.5  -->  -9/2
Slakko: 5.0  -->  5
ThinMan: 0.0  -->  0
two-star: -2.5  -->  -5/2
Vynd: -2.5  -->  -5/2
Wild Card: 40.0  -->  40

#award Alfvaen: 21 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award breadbox: 4 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Calvin N Hobbes: 17 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Crackfoo: -4 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award /dev/joe: 17 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award else...if: 26 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Enigma: -3 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Fortunato: -1 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award The Gingham Wearer: -7 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Goldenmean: 10 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Guy Fawkes: 32 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Hoover 2300: -1 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Hubert: -4 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Illusion: 26 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award K 2: 13 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Niccolo Flychuck: 19 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Red Barn: -3 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Rex Mundi: 3 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award rufus: -5 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Slakko: 5 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award two-star: -3 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Vynd: -3 A$ : dividend Mar 16
#award Wild Card: 40 A$ : dividend Mar 16

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--They Might Be Giants:Apollo 18
Current Book--Ann Marston:The Western King
Have fun doing whatever it is you don't plan to do!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:18:57 -0500 (EST)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Quorum failure

Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do.  Touch the puppet head.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:15:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Paradox

> This sentence is false.
> 
> If the first sentence of this message is true then I create a
> trinket valued at A$10 called "A Cheap Attempt at a Paradox Win"
> with a description as follows:

I see two possibilities.

1) The first sentence of your message has an indeterminate truth
value. Therefore, it is certainly not true, and so you do not create
the trinket.

2) The first sentence of your message has an ambiguous truth value.
Therefore, by making your action dependent on an indeterminate
condition, you have not given a full and unambiguous specification,
and therefore it fails to be a valid public action.

breadbox

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #62
******************************