Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #32
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest       Friday, February 20 1998       Volume 03 : Number 032

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:19:40 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Priv Lists

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Hey, use the priv lists!
> Vynd, Balsamic Dragon, you're likely to start a round of snowgod's disease
> posting these things that need private replies on the regular versions
> of the lists! :-)
> 
> For messages that need private replies to you, send to acka-priv or
> acka-games-priv @muppetlabs.com instead of ackanomic or acka-games .
> 
> /dev/joe
> 

Sorry about that.  I actually deliberatly started a new message rather
than responding to the last round so as to do what you just suggested.
And I somehow forgot.  At least I remembered that it was Round 10 this
time.

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:50:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 540 (The Gingham Wearer)

The Gingham Wearer has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 540 - February 20, 1998
Subject: Treasury Cards
Initiator: Veal Fan  (sent February 18, 1998, 6:43 p.m.)
Judge: The Gingham Wearer  (selected February 20, 1998, 8:45 a.m.)
Judgement:

Statement:

At noon on February 17, 1998 there was a Scientist For A Day Otzma Card
in the Treasury.

Veal Fan's Reasoning:

The following facts are not in dispute:  February 15, 1998 was an Otzma
Day, and Slakko, as RuneMaker, created, among other cards, a Scientist
For A Day Otzma Card.  E then called an Auction for that card, among
others.

What is in dispute is the ownership of said card between the time of its
creation and the completion of the Auction.  There are two plausible
alternatives: that Slakko owned it, and that it was unowned.

If Slakko owned it, then e owned all of the Otzma Cards that had been
created on February 15, which numbered...well, more than ten, since I'm
too lazy to check the exact number.  But by Rule 1240.1:

   2. Any single player may not own more than six Otzma Cards
   simultaneously.

Nowhere else in the Rule does it claim that this does not apply to
the RuneMaker.  So now the two alternatives boil down to this:  Either
Slakko failed to create more than six Otzma Cards on this Otzma Day(and
not even that, since e owned some Otzma Cards emself before creating
them), or the Otzma Cards were unowned.

Rule 505 states that "The Treasury...serves as a storing house for
entities that belong to no Player, except for those entities which the
rules explicitly state are not in (or considered to be in) the
Treasury".  Rule 1240.1 says nothing about the Otzma Cards up for
Auction not being in the Treasury, either.

(This was not troublesome until first Auction Them Entities allowed
entities in the Treasury to be Auctioned, and then Slakko amended
Rule 1240.1 to allow Otzma Cards in the Treasury to be bought for A$10
each.  Now, unless this is fixed one way or the other, future Otzma
Day auctions will turn into Hubert situations.)

While I'm at it, there is a similar question as to the ownership of
Gadgets created by Scientists while they are being Auctioned.  Of
course, since all that can be done with a Gadget in the Treasury is
to ask the Financier to auction it, this won't be similarly problematic
in that case, but what if a Scientist owns the Gadget while the Auction
goes on, and can use it with impunity?  Like a Spell Book of Chorg, or
a Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really, or a Scroll
of Crumble?  This is a loophole waiting to be surfed.

So does game tradition consider an object to come into the possession of
its owner when it is created?  Rule 500.2 specifically says:

   When an ownable entity is created, it is unowned, unless the Rules
   specify an initial owner for it.

The Trinket rule specifies that the creator of the Trinket is its
initial owner.  The Otzma Card Rule Suite is silent on the initial
ownership of Otzma Cards.  (Rule 595 also does not specify the Scientist
who creates a Gadget as its initial owner.)

Therefore Otzma Cards(and Gadgets)that are being auctioned just after
creation are in the Treasury.  (Had I had better timing, I could've
bought the entire recent Otzma Day auction for a song.  Pretty close
to what was paid for a single Art Thief card.  Ah, well...)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:51:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 536 (FALSE)

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 536 - February 12, 1998
Subject: Tornado Chess Piece
Initiator: The Gingham Wearer (sent February 11, 1998, 11:46 a.m.)
Judge: K 2  (selected February 12, 1998, 3:00 p.m.)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

There exists a party chess piece tornado controlled by The Gingham Wearer.

Reasoning:

From rule 510:

"No Player, Undead, or Organization may use more A$'s to buy, trade, give
or in any way move out of his account, than there are in his/her account at
that moment in time. In other words, a player may never voluntarily go into
debt, but it is possible that a player may go into debt involuntarily."

From rule 1230.1

"D. A player or Organization may create a new Party Chess Piece of any
existing type for a Swinger. When this is done, the player or Organization
pays the piece cost to the Treasury, and the new piece is created,
off-board, in the possession of the specified Swinger. A new piece costs
A$1, plus A$7 times the material value of the piece. A King may not be
purchased in this way."

From my understanding of the above buying a party chess piece is not a
voluntary payment. What actually happens is that the player/org creates the
party chess piece. They then, as an involuntary action are forced to pay
for having created a piece. This is supported by the phrase "when this is
done" which, to me, indicates that the payment happens just after the
creation of the piece.

If you look at some of the other rules detailing purchase you will see that
their phrasing is quite different.

From rule 844

"A player may purchase a kaa of empty, common land for A$50."

From rule 1008

"Where the rules say that an Organization may buy a Power of a certain
type, what is meant is that the Organization may, as an action, contribute
an amount of currency to the Treasury in exchange for a new Power of the
type specified, which is then created in that Organization's possession."

Judges Reasoning:

Examining the section of rule 1230.1 which governs Party Chess Piece (PCP)
construction.

>D. A player or Organisation may create a new Party Chess Piece of any
existing type for a Swinger.

The word may in this sentence indicates that it is giving permission for
certain entities to create PCPs, the sentences which follow (and have
precedence by rule 102) describe how that action is carried out.

>When this is done, the player or Organisation pays the piece cost to the
Treasury, and the new >piece is created, off-board, in the possession of
the specified Swinger. 

Thus this sentence describes what happens when an authorised entity
attempts to create a PCP, ie e pays then the piece is created.

PCP creation is a voluntary action, thus if the entity carrying out a
creation does not have enough A$ the first step of creation (the
payment),by rule 510, it fails, and the second step, which follows from the
first, also fails.

Since Kerplunk, kerplunk III did not have sufficient fund to cover the
creation attempt, by rule 510 it failed.

Thus The Gingham Wearer is not in control of a Tornado, nor any other piece
created by the organisation Kerplunk, kerplunk III.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:47:47 -0500 (EST)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

Welcome, new players and observers :)

Wild Card?  Any reference to the Wild Cards series that we were just
talking about?  :)

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	[email-masked] [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:09 PM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)
>
>
>
>Then we have Jonathan David Amery, <[email-masked]>, cosital with Slakko,
>who joined as an observer a little while ago, and is now ready to make
>the leap to full-fledged playerness.  The Ackanomic name e has chosen is
>Wild Card, and, fortuitously enough, Slakko has been chosen as eir mentor.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:48:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 541 (The Gingham Wearer)

The Gingham Wearer has (again!) been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 541 - February 20, 1998
Subject: Praetor Deadbeat
Initiator: Balsamic Dragon  (sent February 20, 1998, 9:36 p.m.)
Judge: The Gingham Wearer  (selected February 20, 1998, 9:45 a.m.)
Judgement:

Statement:

The office of Praetor is vacant.

Balsamic Dragons Reasoning:

On February 2, as Clerk of the Court, I assigned CFJ 528 to rufus.  
On February 2, rufus accepted this CFJ.
On February 9, Malenkai, the current Praetor, went on vacation.
On February 10, Alfvaen appointed Calvin n Hobbes as Acting Praetor.
(footnote 1)
On February 11, I declared rufus to be a deadbeat, and reassigned CFJ 528
to the Praetor. (footnote 2)
It is now February 20.

From the Rule defining the Office of the Praetor:

IV. The Praetor may not decline Judgment. When a CFJ is submitted to him,
he is assumed to have immediately accepted it. He may send a CFJ to the
Supreme Court, and if e does this, he is not required to deliver a verdict.

V. The Praetor is forbidden to take any action or inaction which would
cause him to be a deadbeat. If he is ever a deadbeat, he is immediately
removed from office, and the seat is vacant. 

From the Rule concerning Acting Officers: 

The Rules may specify conditions under which a Player serves in an Office
in an "Acting" capacity. In such a case, the Player is responsible for
performing all of the Duties without receiving any of the Privileges of the
Office, except for Privileges which are also explicitly defined to be
Duties by the rules, or Privileges required to perform explicitly defined
Duties, or Privileges of the office when the Acting officer is filling in
for a vacationing player.

Therefor, if there was a Praetor on February 18, e was removed from office
and the seat became vacant.

footnote 1: 	What Alfvaen said was If e approves, I appoint Calvin N
Hobbes to be Acting Praetor 		again until Malenkai returns.

footnote 2:  	What I said was As rufus has not yet returned a verdict,
this goes to the acting Praetor
		who is, I believe, Calvin n Hobbes.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:57:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

> 
> Then we have Jonathan David Amery, <[email-masked]>, cosital with
Slakko,
> who joined as an observer a little while ago, and is now ready to make
> the leap to full-fledged playerness.  The Ackanomic name e has chosen is
> Wild Card, and, fortuitously enough, Slakko has been chosen as eir
mentor.
> 
> 
> Finally, we have Matt D. Bradbury, <[email-masked]>, who claims
> an acquaintance with Calvin N Hobbes, and wishes to join under the name
> Enigma.  The Gingham Wearer has been chosen as eir mentor.
> 
> 
> Let's welcome them all to Ackanomic, and get your Whamiols ready...
> 

Welcome to Ackanomic!  Does this mean I get 30 points, or only 15?

Balsamic Dragon
(who bought that Whamiol just in time!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:09:15 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka:  off the cjf ineligability list pleas..

Would the CotC please take me off of the CFJ ineligiblility list?

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Vivian Norwood wrote:

> > Let's welcome them all to Ackanomic, and get your Whamiols ready...
> > 
> 
> Welcome to Ackanomic!  Does this mean I get 30 points, or only 15?

It depends.  I think if they both go active on the same proposal we
currently get 30, otherwise we get 15 + (no. of days difference between
their going active dates).

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:31:10 -0500 (EST)
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: *ping*

Today is Friday, the 20th day of February, and the Machine That Goes
*ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
gone *ping* five times.

**two-star

SCHOLAR OF PING

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:52:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

Sunflare, Wild Card and Enigma

Welcome!

>Finally, we have Matt D. Bradbury, <[email-masked]>, who claims
>an acquaintance with Calvin N Hobbes, and wishes to join under the name
>Enigma.  The Gingham Wearer has been chosen as eir mentor.

I acknowledge this alleged acquaintance.   : )

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:55:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2719

>See?  This is why I was opposed to the Postal Code making acka-research a
>place where no game actions could occur.  Because this creation, and
>Slakko's response, have no effect.

Oops. Thanks for noticing that.

 I create a trinket called "The Magnificent Web-Harfer", worth A$42. It
 is a statue as tall as a mutated head. The statue represents Slakko,
 holding on his back an unbreakable glass ball with the map of Ackanomic
 in it, changing as Ackanomic's map changes. Legend has it that the
 player who owns it can never be lost in Ackanomic. Engraved at the
 equator is a message that reads "Real Map-Harfers don't need no
 buldozers when a good earthquake will do the job - In memory of Slakko's
 earthquake, February 1998".

 I give it to Slakko.

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:11:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2719

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Thierry Joffrain wrote:

> >See?  This is why I was opposed to the Postal Code making acka-research a
> >place where no game actions could occur.  Because this creation, and
> >Slakko's response, have no effect.
> 
> Oops. Thanks for noticing that.
> 
>  I create a trinket called "The Magnificent Web-Harfer", worth A$42. It
>  is a statue as tall as a mutated head. The statue represents Slakko,
>  holding on his back an unbreakable glass ball with the map of Ackanomic
>  in it, changing as Ackanomic's map changes. Legend has it that the
>  player who owns it can never be lost in Ackanomic. Engraved at the
>  equator is a message that reads "Real Map-Harfers don't need no
>  buldozers when a good earthquake will do the job - In memory of Slakko's
>  earthquake, February 1998".
> 
>  I give it to Slakko.

I don't think I'm worth that much, but the trinket is such an excellent
job I can't refuse it.  So...

I create a trinket called "The Man With Infinite Monkeys in a Puny Space",
worth A$22. It is a statue as tall as a standard measuring barrel, and in
fact has an outer fibreglass casing shaped exactly like a standard
measuring barrel. Inside the barrel are an apparently infinite number of
monkeys, and a replica of Calvin N Hobbes, enjoying emself.  On the
notional front of the piece (the side from which CnH can be seen straight
on through the monkeys, which are, of course, translucent) is the
inscription "More fun than a barrel of tigers."

I give "The Man With Infinite Monkeys in a Puny Space" to Calvin N Hobbes.

I thank Calvin N Hobbes profusely for the trinket e has provided to me.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:16:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Testing the Waters

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, The Gingham Wearer wrote:

> > > I am calling for a Bracket Pedantry Hearing on Rico, for his gross
> > > violation below.  This would mean that I am the Grand High Pedant In
> > > Chief.  Reply to vote.
> > 
> > Who's Rico?  (I'm Slagothor.  :-))
> 
> Come on else...if, file a CFCJ against Fortunato for attempting an
> impossible action (don't make the penalty too harsh though. This is al
> just for the harf of it :-)

I think that Rico is an unambiguous misspelling of Slagothor.
Therefore Fortunato is the Hearing Harfer for that Hearing, not Rex Mundi.
After all, Slagothor seems to have the belief that he is something called
"rico" - it appears in most of his messages. :-)

Yours,
Slakko
not interested in Game Name / Real Life Pedantry
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:23:23 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Treasure

I am burying the Exquisite Dead Guy(yet again, because that what he does
best)as a Treasure.

I am revealing the following portion of the Map:

The Exquisite Dead Guy shall be found by the last player to post a message
containing the word "Hubert" to a public forum.

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--The Extras:Extropolis
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
Write me your poetry in motion

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:33:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Rico <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Testing the Waters

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> > > Who's Rico?  (I'm Slagothor.  :-))

> I think that Rico is an unambiguous misspelling of Slagothor.
> Therefore Fortunato is the Hearing Harfer for that Hearing, not Rex Mundi.
> After all, Slagothor seems to have the belief that he is something called
> "rico" - it appears in most of his messages. :-)

True, but
a) it's spelled "Rico" in the header and "rico" in the footer, so if I do
believe it's my name, I have a serious identity crisis about
capitalization.  
b) if this is the case, TGW still owes me A$5 from that Zuriti'ili CFCJ
when the penalty was to transfer the money to "rico," and e pointed out
that there is no Ackanomic player named rico.  Or Rico.

I don't particularly mind either way.  Tell you what.  I'll submit a
proposal that will give me a Winning Condition, you beings can all vote it
through, and then when I don my Champion's Cloak I shall ask to be
addressed as "rico" and "Rico" simultaneously with "Slagothor."  Then all
this should definitely be unambiguous.  What do you all say?

(This would be a good time for Veal Fan to put in his .sig: 
Song in My Head: Aerosmith: Dream On)

(Actually, if the Two Free Cycle Wins For No Good Reason prop passes, I
will have a Champion's Cloak.  Goldenmean, Hachiman, and I have all won
infinite times on his Party Chess Nomic.)

- -sluggo, never one to have a dearth of nicknames.

I love cats...they taste just like chicken. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> I am burying the Exquisite Dead Guy(yet again, because that what he does
> best)as a Treasure.
> 
> I am revealing the following portion of the Map:
> 
> The Exquisite Dead Guy shall be found by the last player to post a message
> containing the word "Hubert" to a public forum.
> 

What a strange map.  By saying that the last player to post a message
containing the word "Hubert" to the public forum is the map, Veal Fan,
has, in fact, met the conditions for the map he just revealed.  At least,
this would be the least troublesome interpretation of the map, which may
not be what Veal Fan was after at all...

                                       - Vynd

[email-masked]

> 
> --
> --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--The Extras:Extropolis
> Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
> Write me your poetry in motion
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:34:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Rico <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> The Exquisite Dead Guy shall be found by the last player to post a message
> containing the word "Hubert" to a public forum.

Last as in most recent, or last as in never again shall any player post a
message containing "Hubert" to a public forum?

- -rico

I love cats...they taste just like chicken. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:39:13 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> I am revealing the following portion of the Map:

> The Exquisite Dead Guy shall be found by the last player to post a message
> containing the word "Hubert" to a public forum.

I should note that that really means "after this treasure is buried".
Also, I am counting quoted text(but not documents required to be posted
by Officers), so I just disqualified myself.  :-)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Eurogliders:Absolutely
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
How razorback-jumping frogs can level six piqued gymnasts!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:45:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> I should note that that really means "after this treasure is buried".
> Also, I am counting quoted text(but not documents required to be posted
> by Officers), so I just disqualified myself.  :-)

So what you're saying is, when all but one player have posted a certain
word often associated with feathers, rhyming with Schubert, then the one
player who hasn't done so will find the exquisite dead guy.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:47:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> > The Exquisite Dead Guy shall be found by the last player to post a message
> > containing the word "Hubert" to a public forum.

> Last as in most recent, or last as in never again shall any player post a
> message containing "Hubert" to a public forum?

The full legalese version of the Map is that "When there is only one
player who has not posted the word 'Hubert' to a public forum since this
treasure was buried, that player shall find the Exquisite Dead Guy."

So two more people have disqualified themselves from finding it...:-)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Eurogliders:Absolutely
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
The pills that I took, they made my fingers disappear

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:06:01 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Andrew Stefanski)
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> The full legalese version of the Map is that "When there is only one
> player who has not posted the word 'H****t' to a public forum since this
> treasure was buried, that player shall find the Exquisite Dead Guy."
> 
> So two more people have disqualified themselves from finding it...:-)

	Poor people...  in such a hurry to find it that they don't even wait to 
figure out what's really going on.  Aaah...  the wonders of patience.

 - Illusion (who knows that the 'h' word is a bad word... :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:11:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, AARON KEESLER wrote:

> Welcome, new players and observers :)
> 
> Wild Card?  Any reference to the Wild Cards series that we were just
> talking about?  :)
> 

 Not AFAIK.

 Wild Card.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:28:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Andrew Stefanski wrote:

> > The full legalese version of the Map is that "When there is only one
> > player who has not posted the word 'H****t' to a public forum since this
> > treasure was buried, that player shall find the Exquisite Dead Guy."
> > 
> > So two more people have disqualified themselves from finding it...:-)
> 
> 	Poor people...  in such a hurry to find it that they don't even wait to 
> figure out what's really going on.  Aaah...  the wonders of patience.

I guess that the ****** treasure is something of an anti-****** situation.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:51:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

At 02:52 PM 2/20/98 -0500, Thierry Joffrain wrote:
>Sunflare, Wild Card and Enigma
>
>Welcome!

Thank you, although I never saw the original posting
[Acka: New Players & Observer] because my iName account
was going froozy.

I'm probably not going to join in with the actual game
soon -- school is overwhelming.  But I'm doing research
for a project on Nomic, and I suppose this would be the
most interesting and informative Nomic to study (cause
it's so harfy!).  I hope no one will find my questions
terribly annoying or incessant, and if anyone finds them
offensive I'll gladly attempt to take it to private
conversation.  But I always find discussion on the basics
of the game interesting, and perhaps it will result in some
new ideas for Acka.  Perhaps not.  We'll never know until we
try, eh?

Sunflare

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:51:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Question #1

[If this should go in a different mailing list, -please- tell
me.  I didn't receive the confirmation eMail telling me that
I had been subscribed to the lists either, because of iName
problems, so I don't know all the list names.]

	How exactly do you believe Nomic relates to 'real-world'
law in terms of complexity?  The kind soul who runs the Nomic
Links Page told me that Nomic -is- real-life law, just not quite
as embodying or complex (except for specific instances, of course,
and Nomic's complexity tends more towards calculations than towards
exceptions, which real-world law thrives on).  But where do you think
Nomic tends to be more complex than RL and less complex?  (Not stuff
like traffic laws, which are nonexistent in Acka, but things like
the Judicial system, punishment, executive system, etc.)

Thanks, even if you just read it. :)

Sunflare

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:06:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question #1

- ----------
> From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Question #1
> Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 4:51 PM
> 
> 
> [If this should go in a different mailing list, -please- tell
> me.  I didn't receive the confirmation eMail telling me that
> I had been subscribed to the lists either, because of iName
> problems, so I don't know all the list names.]
> 
> 	How exactly do you believe Nomic relates to 'real-world'
> law in terms of complexity?  The kind soul who runs the Nomic
> Links Page told me that Nomic -is- real-life law, just not quite
> as embodying or complex (except for specific instances, of course,
> and Nomic's complexity tends more towards calculations than towards
> exceptions, which real-world law thrives on).  But where do you think
> Nomic tends to be more complex than RL and less complex?  (Not stuff
> like traffic laws, which are nonexistent in Acka, but things like
> the Judicial system, punishment, executive system, etc.)
> 
> Thanks, even if you just read it. :)
> 
> Sunflare
> 

I think the reason that Ackalaw is, in many ways, less complex than real
law is because anything that happens in Acka is recorded instantly and
perfectly, and only has the effect which is specified by the rules.  So
really, everything is perfectly predictable, unlike real life.  The reason
Acka is so harfy is that we tend to make rules first and think about
consequences later.  That way, we are always surprised by what happens.  

Our legislative system, I think, is most like real life, with our judicial
system very much like real life would be if everyone could be a judge, and
our executive system least like real life.  We don't really have a good
balance of power yet, but at least the judiciary usually ends up on top!

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:30:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question #1

At 05:06 PM 2/20/98 -0500, Vivian Norwood wrote:

>I think the reason that Ackalaw is, in many ways, less complex than real
>law is because anything that happens in Acka is recorded instantly and
>perfectly, and only has the effect which is specified by the rules.  So
>really, everything is perfectly predictable, unlike real life.  The reason
>Acka is so harfy is that we tend to make rules first and think about
>consequences later.  That way, we are always surprised by what happens.  

Very true.  For example, one of the basic tenets of Nomic is that iff not 
specifically forbidden by a rule, any action is unregulated. In modern law,
however, the rule is that if it's not stated, you pretty much -can't- do it.
Real law is also much much MUCH more convoluted, with self-references,
multiple
levels and volumes and codes and such.

>Our legislative system, I think, is most like real life, with our judicial
>system very much like real life would be if everyone could be a judge, and
>our executive system least like real life.  We don't really have a good
>balance of power yet, but at least the judiciary usually ends up on top!

Well, I believe the legislative system is most like real life if real life
republics still existed.  With representative democracy (AKA democratic
republic) styles of government, the legislative branch is much more seclusive
and less directly manipulatible (mainly because in Nomics, players -ARE- the
legislative system -- no nameless Citizens wandering around... although that
would perhaps be interesting, eh?).

The judiciary -NEEDS- to end up on top in an unbalanced system like a Nomic.
It's really the only word, because all the executive system does is act out
the laws and statutes, rarely coming up with its own 'new ideas' (not talking
about the Players emselves.)

>Balsamic Dragon

Groovy name.  Mine seems bland in comparison.

Sunflare

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:33:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Timeliness

two-star has had a good long time to collate all the Agenda Conditions.
Even if e is not able to start an Auction, e must still divulge all the
hat details.  This I believe he has not done.
At this stage I will _NOT_ announce an Impeachment hearing, as that would
be without any warning.  I am, however, giving two-star a three day grace
period.  If e does not send the list of Hats to the public forum, then e
is not doing eir job to justify the 5/6th of Magic Number winning
condition privilege IMHO.

I just want the Winning Condition to be possible for Agenda Hats.  Nothing
seems to have happened, and there's no reason why it shouldn't have as far
as I can see.

Yours,
Slakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:59:37 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Spelling Bee

The Spelling Bee is flying!

Trying to do a bit more than just what ispell tells me is spelled wrong
here, since some words are misspelled while still valid words.  (Next
time I think I might try to tackle capitalization...)

In Rule 207.5, "Prolix Propositions", replace "calender" with "calendar".

In Rule 213, "Delivering Judgement", replace "fron" with "from".

In Rule 255, "Vacation", replace "permited" with "permitted".

In Rule 344, "Weasel Words", replace "bestowance" with "bestowal".

In Rule 374, "Politeness Moon", replace "ad hominum" with "ad hominem" and
"unecessarily" with "unnecessarily".

In Rule 402 "Offices, Related Definitions", replace "notifiyng" and
"notifiying" with "notifying".

In Rule 421.1, "Office of Common Sense, Redundancy, and Redundance", replace
"privilige" with "privilege".

In Rule 597, "Frankenstein Monster", replace "weather" with "whether" twice.

In Rule 670, "Commission d'Arts", replace "Comission" with "Commission"
and "Comissioners" with "Commissioners".

In Rule 705, "The Caped Crusader", add a period to last paragraph.

In Rule 710, "Criminal Justice", replace "comitted" with "committed" every
time that it occurs.

In Rule 721, "Annoyances", replace "Embezelment" -> "Embezzlement".

In Rule 835, "Locations", add a period to the square-bracketed sentence at
the end of 7).

In Rule 836, "Down the river", replace "place" with "placed" in "place
in gaol", replace "there" with "their" in "find there way", replace
"capsize" with "capsizes" in "then capsize", and "teams" with "team" in
"until another teams succeeds".

In Rule 910, "The Ackanomicon", replace "Probabalistic" with
"Probabilistic", "temprament" with "temperament", and "its" with "it's"
in "if its a mechanical".

In Rule 1044, "Swingpoints", replace "recieve" with "receive", and add a
period to the last sentence of 3.c.

In Rule 1215, "Duels", replace "Chalenger" with "Challenger", "instane"
with "instance", and "finctionary" -> "Fictionary".

In Rule 1230.2, "Swingers Like to Play Around II - Let's play", add a
period to 9.C.(iv), renumber 9.C.(iv) through (vi) as (iii) through (v),
replace "anouncement" with "announcement", "begining" with "beginning"
each time it occurs, "anounce" with "announce", and replace "if" with "is"
in "minimum duration if".

In Rule 1230.18, "Creation of a PartyChessPiece Demon", add a period to
the end of section 1., and replace "too" with "to" in "equal too".

In Rule 1240.9, "Otzma Card of Type Tactical Retreat", add a period to
"A King may not be removed from the board this way".

In Rule 1250.17, "Mediocrity", replace "it" with "in" in "albeit it".

In Rule 1250.19, "Word un-asociation", replace "asociation" with
"association" in the title, "Asociation" with "Association"

In Rule 1304, "Prophets and Prophecies", replace "Prophesies" with
"Prophecies" and "annoit" with "anoint".

In Rule 2682, "The Chocolate Frog", replace "posession" with "possession",
and "recieve" with "receive" each time it occurs.

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Elvis Costello & The Attractions:Punch The Clock
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
Uneasy lies the head that wears the clown.  --Scott Ellis

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:00:56 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> > > The full legalese version of the Map is that "When there is only one
> > > player who has not posted the word 'H****t' to a public forum since this
> > > treasure was buried, that player shall find the Exquisite Dead Guy."

> > > So two more people have disqualified themselves from finding it...:-)

> > 	Poor people...  in such a hurry to find it that they don't even wait to 
> > figure out what's really going on.  Aaah...  the wonders of patience.

> I guess that the ****** treasure is something of an anti-****** situation.

Yes, that was what I had in mind.  I thought of actually saying "Anti-Hubert"
instead of "Hubert", but I figured that I wanted something that somebody
might actually say inadvertently.  :-)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Elvis Costello & The Attractions:Punch The Clock
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
Quoth the Raven, 'Eat my Shorts!'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:04:43 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: IP

Speaking of Impeachment...

I am submitting an Impeachment Paper against our Caped Crusader,
else...if.  Eir poor moral character has been amply shown by eir
bids in the recent Otzma Auction, and while Rule 705 does not
specify that e will lose eir office for going into Contempt, obviously
this is not the kind of Caped Crusader we want.

So I say unto thee, vote YES to impeach else...if!  Let's keep the moral
fiber of Ackanomic high!  (Not to be confused with Ackanomic High, our
alma mater...ah, those halcyon school days...<sigh>)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Elvis Costello & The Attractions:Punch The Clock
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
My gravity well has run dry.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:13:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matt D. Bradbury" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players & Observer (Slakko, TGW)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Thierry Joffrain wrote:

> Sunflare, Wild Card and Enigma
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> >Finally, we have Matt D. Bradbury, <[email-masked]>, who claims
> >an acquaintance with Calvin N Hobbes, and wishes to join under the name
> >Enigma.  The Gingham Wearer has been chosen as eir mentor.
> 
> I acknowledge this alleged acquaintance.   : )
> 
> CnH
> 
"I am not a puppet!"  (Using my best Nixon impersonation.  :)  

Enigma

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:15:04 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Timeliness

> I just want the Winning Condition to be possible for Agenda Hats.  Nothing
> seems to have happened, and there's no reason why it shouldn't have as far
> as I can see.

I was considering doing something like this myself. However, we are 
still not sure that you won by agenda (the second appeal is still 
with the supreme court) so I decided not to. That is the only 
reasonable reason I can think of as to why e hasn't got them out yet.
- --
The Gingham Wearer
.Nomic Historian and Bean counter
Acka Treasure harfer and assistant web hafer
Taking incoherence to a new level

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #32
******************************