Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #29
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Wednesday, February 18 1998     Volume 03 : Number 029

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 02:27:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Swingpoints for Fortnight ending 16th February 1998

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> > 
> > > Class A: Swinger Weight Awards
> > > 
> > > Niccolo - 4
> > > Slakko  - 3
> > > Alfvaen - 2
> > > T.G.W.  - 1
> > 
> > 
> > The number of SwingPoints for thetop swinger, and consequently fo the
> > other Swingers, is determined by NoS, which is currently 8, not by NoS
> > with non-zero Weights.
> 
> It can't be 8 - there's no HARF Swinger.
> Why didn't you ever point this out before - I've been doing it wrong for
> months if that's the case.
> 
perhaps six or seven then.

I can't say why I didn't notice this until now, perhaps because the
discrepancy was smaller. I'm sorry I didn't note this before.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:46:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions...

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, AARON KEESLER wrote:

> I read the second page of my Spell Book of Chorg, which vanishes in a
> huge flash of scarlet flame, leaving only a puff of lilac-scented smoke.
> 
> Also, I seem to recall winning an auction for a Truthseeker card, but I
> don't have it listed.  This would have been after the first of Slakko's
> Otzma days...

It's here on the RuneMaker's page - obviously Alfvaen hasn't updated that
particular Otzma transaction.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:36:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: senate election screw-up

> 
> I wish the other candidates good luck, I'm glad to be in good company for
> the election.
> 
> CnH
> 
> 

I must say that this is awfully refreshing after the _last_ campaign (TGW,
Slakko, K2!)

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:01:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

Results of the Otzma Card Auctions:

3 Grave Robber cards:

Slagothor for A$40
The Gingham Wearer for A$35
K 2 for A$31

3 Art Thief cards:

Slagothor A$116
else...if A$105
Slakko A$83

2 Skeleton Key cards:

Slakko A$20
else...if A$10

2 Go Fish cards:

Slagothor A$43
The Gingham Wearer A$37

Scientist for a Day card: The Gingham Wearer A$33

Untouch Me card: else...if A$10

Fix My Gadget card: else...if A$10

Well, it would work this way, but we have a problem.  else...if bid a
total of A$135 in successful auctions.  He's only got A$134.

However, the auctions were called simultaneously, so at the time that each
auction ended, he did have enough money to pay.  However, Voluntary Debt
is prohibited.

This could lead to real complications, but I think that my auction call
led to the auctions happening an infinitesimal amount of time after one
another.  So else...if goes into Contempt for not having enough money to
pay for the Fix My Gadget card, but e does receive the other 3 cards.

A new auction commences for the Fix My Gadget card: Minimum bid is A$0.

- --end auction
- --begin hubert

Now that that's out of the way (note that the transfers occurred a few
minutes ago, and everyone could have worked out when the Auction was
going to end...)

I play my Otzma Card Art Thief, naming the Fine Wooden Chest sitting in
the Museum, and sneak away with the goods.  The only trace left of any
burglar at the Museum is a lone unidentifiable feather. :-)

I "fence", that is, convert, my Fine Wooden Chest into Ackadollars.

Larry's House of Hot Stuff and Cash is great for these sort of things :-)

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:33:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Digging in the dirt

I am using my new otzma card grave robber, and my gingham shovel to go
digging in the grave of the most venerable elder mr cwm to see what
valuable antiques I can find.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:33:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Public auction

I am starting a public auction on the prosthetic I own which I am not
wearing, that is the mr cwm forehead. What better way to show respect to
the elders than to wear a forehead to make yourself look like em? The
minimum bid shall be A$15.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:15:30 -0500 (EST)
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: *Ping*

Today is Wednesday, the 18th day of February, and the Machine That Goes
*ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
gone *ping* IV times.

**two-star

**scholar-of-*ping*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:38:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 534 (FALSE) (upheld)

Call For Judgement 534
  Subject: EndGame Paradox
Initiator: Vynd
    Judge: Red Barn (selected February 9, 1998, 11:45 a.m.)
Judgement: FALSE
Appealed by Vynd
Judgement: FALSE (uphold)

Statement:

Further play is impossible.

Initiator's Reasoning:

This *is* a Paradox Win CFJ.

As determined by CFJ 533, Slakko fulfilled the last of his Agenda
Conditions on the 29th of January. Upon doing so, according to Rule 607,
he received the title of Agent of KAOS. He then, again by Rule 607,
achieved a winning condition.

Rule 666 says that "Upon a Cycle winning condition being achieved, the
following steps occur, in order"...

The first of these steps is "a) Ackanomic play is suspended."

It is my belief that, upon Ackanomic play being suspended, it is no
longer possible to restart play. Hence further play is impossible. Why do
I believe this? Two reasons.

The only thing that can cause play to resume is clause p) of Rule 666,
"p) Ackanomic play resumes." Since clause a) has suspended play,
however, it is not possible to enact clause p). To enact clause p)
would be playing the game of Ackanomic, which is impossible because
play has been suspended.

In fact, this isn't even an issue, because of the second reason I
believe further play to be impossible. This would be clauses b)
through o) of Rule 666. Each of these clauses calls for some sort of
game action to be taken. So to do them would be playing the game of
Ackanomic. Clause a) has made it impossible to do this. So neither
clause b), nor any of the other clauses between clauses a) and p),
ever happen. Rule 666 tells us that the steps listed in the Rule are
applied in order. So if step b) doesn't take place, step p) can never
take place, and play cannot be resumed. It is for this reason that,
upon Slakko achieving a winning condition, further Ackanomic play
became impossible.

Judge's Reasoning:

This hinges on the definition of the word 'play'. I assert that 'play'
refers to participation by players, not neccessarily to all game events.
If this definition is seriously questioned, an appeal is neccessary.

One could make an argument that 'play' includes activity by the harfers,
but actually their duties are merely to TRACK the game state, not to make
it. They can, and do, do so after-the-fact (or simultaneously with it, if
you prefer).

Also, we have (15, now?) cycle wins worth of custom that it IS possible
to get to the next cycle...

Vynd's Appeal Reasoning:

I concur that the meaning of the word "play" is the key to this issue,
but I am not so sure about the rest of the Judge's reasoning. Certainly
the argument that we have had Cycle wins in the past is insufficient.
We've been wrong in the past too, about a lot of things, and it is not at
all impossible that we have been mistakenly pretending to play Ackanomic
since the end of the very first Cycle.

In my review of the Rules and Game Custom, I have found what I believe to
be the crucial CFJ on this issue, CFJ 193. This CFJ asked if it was
possible for the steps of Rule 666 to cause Rule 666 to implement itself
again (the gist of the argument for this occuring being that step three
of 666 declared someone the winner of the cycle, which is exactly what
causes Rule 666 to activate in the first place). Interestingly, CFJ 193
is the source of an important statement in game custom, that certain
events in Acka are a part of Acka but not a part of Acka play, to quote:

"Rule 666/2(a) suspends Ackanomic play. Rule 666/2(b) through Rule
666/s(m) are Ackanomic procedures to be carried out beyond the bounds of
play, much as setting up 'queen on color' is a part of chess but not a
part of chess play,"

Now this is an interesting assertion to look at in the first place.
Frankly, I have to wonder if setting up for chess isn't indeed part of
playing the game of chess. After all, how to set up the board is part
of the rules of chess, if you do it improperly then you are cheating,
etc. So the very basis for this argument of "Ackanomic procedures to
be carried out beyond the bounds of play" is a little shaky.

What I find really interesting, however, is what this very same CFJ 193
goes on to say in the next sentence:

"The reinvocation of Rule 666/2 would be Ackanomic play, and, thus, is
impermissible, as Ackanomic play was suspended."

This is, to the best of my abilities in searching the CFJ archives and
Rules, the only place where some event is specifically said to be
Ackanomic play. Certainly it is reasonable to assume that, if the
reinvocation of Rule 666 is Ackanomic play, invoking it in the first
place is Ackanomic play. So what CFJ 193 seems to be telling us is
that applying the Rules is playing Ackanomic.

What an interesting dilemma. This CFJ seems to assert that applying
the steps of Rule 666 are not part of Ackanomic play, but that
applying Rule 666 itself is Ackanomic play. This doesn't make much
sense to me. I can understand why invoking Rule 666 would be
considered Ackanomic play. But why then is actually doing the things
that Rule 666 calls for not part of Ackanomic play? And why only steps
(b) through (m)? It never says anywhere in Rule 666 (then or now) that
any of the events described in its steps occur outside of play.
Granted, the very first step is to suspend Ackanomic play, so it would
be pretty hard to carry out the rest of the steps otherwise. But hey,
mistakes happen, and this could have been one of Ackanomic's largest.
I don't put much faith in an argument which is saying that the later
steps of Rule 666 are not part of Ackanomic play because otherwise
they wouldn't happen. The rules are often contradictory and
occasionally demand the impossible.

To go out and just blatantly state my personal opinion, putting into
practice the Rules of a game is playing that game. CFJ 193 seems to
agree with me on this, it says that invoking Rule 666 is Ackanomic
play. Now, if we accept this as being true there is precious little
reason to believe that applying the parts of Rule 666 are not part of
play. There is the statement in CFJ 193 to this effect, but there is
no support for such a statement in the Rules, and the CFJ almost
immediately undermines its own position. Faced with this, I think it
is reasonable to assume that applying the steps of Rule 666 is in
fact, play. And since play has been suspended, none of the steps after
the first happen, including the one which would allow play to resume.
Thus, further play is impossible.

Supreme Court's Reasoning:

The Court agrees that the playing out of the past dozen or so cycles
does not constitue "proof" that this CFJ's statement is False.
However, it does supply an ample body of game custom. Thus a True
verdict would essentially require showing that Rule 666 cannot be
reasonably interpreted as it has been.

The original judge argues that "play" consists of the active
involvement of the players, and that its suspension does not prevent
continuing application of the game's rules. The Court believes that
this is consistent with common English usage, and provides, as evidence
for such, examples from the rules of other games.

An excerpt from the official American rules of basketball: "If an
official, upon receiving a timeout request (regular or 20-second) by
the defensive team, inadvertently signals while the play is in
progress, play shall be suspended and the team in possession shall put
the ball in play immediately at the sideline nearest where the ball
was when the signal was given." From the rules of Badminton: "When
necessitated by circumstances not within the control of the players,
the Umpire may suspend play for such a period as the Umpire may
consider necessary. If play be suspended, the existing score shall
stand and play be resumed from that point." From the ILF rules of
Lacrosse: "Play shall be suspended at any time when the ball is out of
bounds." From the official Golf rules: "If the Committee or its
authorised representative considers that for any reason the course is
not in a playable condition or that there are circumstances which
render the proper playing of the game impossible, it may, in match
play or stroke play, order a temporary suspension of play ..."

There are also examples, in all of these games' rulesets, of rules
that detail how play comes to be resumed (such as explicitly
empowering a person to do so), and of further changes to the game
state that can occur during a suspension of play (such as penalties
for not acknowledging the suspension). Nowhere in these rulesets is
there language that explicitly indicates that suspension of play does
not also suspend a person's rule-sanctioned ability to subsequently
resume play; nor is it ever explicitly pointed out that the rules are
still in effect, including the rules that cause play to be resumed.
These things seem to be taken for granted, and it seems reasonable to
assume that the same is also true in Ackanomic.

In fact, the Court can find no examples of game rules where
"suspension of play" is meant to indicate that all game activity,
including the further application and enforcement of the rules, is to
be suspended. Why, then, does this interpretation even occur as being
possible?

Admittedly the above games are, in some ways, very different from
Nomic games. Nomic game activity is heavily focused on the rules and
their interplay, and less so on the interplay of people striving
towards goals outlined in the rules. Ackanomic's rules continuously
call for effects and game state changes, so much so that the rules
themselves can come to be perceived as a separate participant in the
game - as almost another player. Such a view of the game would tend to
give one the impression that a call for the suspension of play must
surely include the rules, unless explicitly stated otherwise. For if
the rules are not suspended from their interplay, what is?

The Court, however, believes that this distinction is an artificial
one, and that other games are just as susceptible to this confusion.
Is it the basketball player who scores two points when a field goal is
succesfully made? Or does the basketball player merely change the game
state in such a way as to cause the rules to increase the team's score
by two points? Such questions can be asked of any game. And yet the
players, referees, and coaches who participate in basketball have no
trouble understanding what their rules mean when they indicate that
play is suspended.

The Court would hazard a guess that their interpretation is that,
while play is suspended, the actions of the players cease to be
recognized by the rules as triggering further effects to the game
state - except, as previously noted, this interpretation must be
modified further to not exclude those effects which the rules indicate
can happen during supsension of play.

And here is an important point. The interpretation of Rule 666 that
game-custom seems to favor most is that the first step in Rule 666's
list of effects actually does suspend, not so much the rules, but any
further application of the rules. That is to say, the words "the
following steps occur, in order:" which precede the list carry an
implication that the suspension in the first step is not extended so
far as to prevent that list of effects from being completed. The
suspension of play, then, is used to avoid the issue of any of its
game state changes triggering further side effects (such as causing
itself to be invoked anew). Thus, steps b through m cause no other
changes to the game state, outside of what is explicitly stated, until
such time as play resumes.

The Court admits that, on first impression, this may seem like an
arbitrary interpretation, artificially formed to fit the current game
custom. However, the examples mentioned in other game rulesets do give
some support to this point of view, and it is more in line with the
game custom (such as the one that is reflected in CFJ 193). The Court
therefore offers it as being a possible alternative to the one
supplied by the original judge, namely that only the active
involvement of the players is suspended. The Court does not wish to
imply that this is a final judgement on the matter, though; other
players may disagree with this assessment, and in either case, the
statement of this CFJ is False.

The appealer is penalized 20 points.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:09:53 -0500 (EST)
From: aaron shapiro <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka vacation

It has come to my attention that I am unable to devote any time to acka =
right now. =20
Because of this I am hereby proxying my vote to goldemean, and =
announcing my departure on a long vacation (2 weeks minimum)  I will be =
back when I have cleared up some of the stuff I have to do in reality =
land-land.
If I cant do both of the previously mentioned actions then I just go on =
vacation.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:36:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

> Well, it would work this way, but we have a problem.  else...if bid a
> total of A$135 in successful auctions.  He's only got A$134.

> However, the auctions were called simultaneously, so at the time that each
> auction ended, he did have enough money to pay.  However, Voluntary Debt
> is prohibited.

> This could lead to real complications, but I think that my auction call
> led to the auctions happening an infinitesimal amount of time after one
> another.  So else...if goes into Contempt for not having enough money to
> pay for the Fix My Gadget card, but e does receive the other 3 cards.

I think that e would just go into debt here, but I can't remember if we'd
come to a consensus on this or not.

> A new auction commences for the Fix My Gadget card: Minimum bid is A$0.

If this has occurred, then I pay A$10 to get the Fix My Gadget card out
of the Treasury.  (I mean, who owns it?  Slakko?  What would prevent him
from playing them all while the Auctions went on?)

> I play my Otzma Card Art Thief, naming the Fine Wooden Chest sitting in
> the Museum, and sneak away with the goods.  The only trace left of any
> burglar at the Museum is a lone unidentifiable feather. :-)

> I "fence", that is, convert, my Fine Wooden Chest into Ackadollars.

What!  Why, you...  If we weren't already involved in a Duel...for your
blatant disregard for one of the true Antiquities of Ackanomic(buried
in the Treasure of Jara), not to mention most of my Benefactor Value to
the Museum...

Hmmm.  I aim the BWG Laser buried in Treasure 194 at Slakko, and place
the "I Finally Finished _Infinite Jest_!" in the fuel input end.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Susanna Hoffs:My Side of The Bed
Current Book--Michael P. Kube-McDowell:Alternities
the fact that empty is glorious is not the point.  --kaite mcgrew

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:34:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Rico <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> Hmmm.  I aim the BWG Laser buried in Treasure 194 at Slakko, and place
> the "I Finally Finished _Infinite Jest_!" in the fuel input end.

Ooh, Hose my Second, will you?

I play my dearly won Otzma Card Art Thief on the The Really Big Blue Thing
That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really in the Museum.  (Transporting it back to
my house is a bitch, and now my house's walls bulge out.)

I aim my The Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at
Alfvaen and press the button marked ENERGIZE.

I supply the anagram "Veal Fan".

I create a trinket entitled "The Folly of Fooling with Anyone Whose Name
Begins with 'Sla'", valued at A$11, with a description of "And don't let
it happen again" and give it to Veal Fan.

- -rico

Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:39:14 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: *Ping*

> Today is Wednesday, the 18th day of February, and the Machine That Goes
> *ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has
> gone *ping* IV times.

Does this mean that it _didn't_ go *ping* on the 10th after all, two-star
was just hallucinating?  Or did you just misspell V?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Tim Finn:Escapade
Current Book--Michael P. Kube-McDowell:Alternities
She's been married so many times she's got rice marks all over her face...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:39:50 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions...

> > Also, I seem to recall winning an auction for a Truthseeker card, but I
> > don't have it listed.  This would have been after the first of Slakko's
> > Otzma days...

> It's here on the RuneMaker's page - obviously Alfvaen hasn't updated that
> particular Otzma transaction.

Actually, I did update it, but apparently I'd mistyped the name in the
entitylog--not to mention two other ones--as "octruthseeker" instead of
"octruth", as it was in the "entitynames" file.

The PE page will have them on there soon...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Genesis:...And Then There Were Three
Current Book--Michael P. Kube-McDowell:Alternities
Everybody talks about the weather, but no one DOES anything about it!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:40:03 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: SBoC Random OC determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: Fortunato
# I am using the dice server to determine the random otzma card
# delivered from the spell book of chorg based on the following
# schedule:
# 1 - go fish
# 2 - map shard
# 3 - summon tornado
# 4 - untouch me
# 5 - share my expenses
# 6 - share my income
# 7 - tactical retreat
# 8 - paratroop
# 9 - truthseeker
# 10 - fix my gadget
# 11 - scientist for a day
# 12 - art thief
# 13 - skeleton key
# 14 - grave robber
# No swinging sale(max in play)
# No foul fowl(max in play)

No. of sides on every die:     14
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      6

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Wed Feb 18 14:39:54 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id OAA28123 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:39:54 -0800
> Received: from edtntnt1-port-44.agt.net(198.161.157.110) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma028121; Wed Feb 18 14:39:45 1998
> Received: (from alfvaen@localhost) by concordia.telusplanet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA00927 for [email-masked]; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:58:32 -0700
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Chorg
> To: [email-masked]
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:58:32 -0700 (MST)
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
> Content-Type: text
> 
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 14
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: SBoC Random OC determination
> 
> #C Player: Fortunato
> #C I am using the dice server to determine the random otzma card
> #C delivered from the spell book of chorg based on the following
> #C schedule:
> #C 1 - go fish
> #C 2 - map shard
> #C 3 - summon tornado
> #C 4 - untouch me
> #C 5 - share my expenses
> #C 6 - share my income
> #C 7 - tactical retreat
> #C 8 - paratroop
> #C 9 - truthseeker
> #C 10 - fix my gadget
> #C 11 - scientist for a day
> #C 12 - art thief
> #C 13 - skeleton key
> #C 14 - grave robber
> #C No swinging sale(max in play)
> #C No foul fowl(max in play)
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:43:25 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

> > Hmmm.  I aim the BWG Laser buried in Treasure 194 at Slakko, and place
> > the "I Finally Finished _Infinite Jest_!" in the fuel input end.

> Ooh, Hose my Second, will you?

> I play my dearly won Otzma Card Art Thief on the The Really Big Blue Thing
> That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really in the Museum.  (Transporting it back to
> my house is a bitch, and now my house's walls bulge out.)

> I aim my The Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at
> Alfvaen and press the button marked ENERGIZE.

> I supply the anagram "Veal Fan".

Mmmmm...Veal.  How did you know?  I mean...I get out my Gravitational
Monopole, and I...well, I polarize Slagothor gravitationally!  Yeah!
So just watch it!  I've got a Magic Radish, too, and I'm not afraid to
use it!

> I create a trinket entitled "The Folly of Fooling with Anyone Whose Name
> Begins with 'Sla'", valued at A$11, with a description of "And don't let
> it happen again" and give it to Veal Fan.

Watch it, or I'll change my name to Slalfvaen...then where will you be?

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Tim Finn:Escapade
Current Book--Michael P. Kube-McDowell:Alternities
My balloon is very angry.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:54:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hosiery

Thanks to the Veal Fan
I have been Hosed for 3 days
This is quite a shame.

For you see I won't
Be able to post the state
Of Party Chess Moves.

I'm a haiku nut
Five, seven, then five phonemes
Seems quite nice to me.

Duncan C Richer
Slakko Warner (yes I'm lost)
Look a haiku sig

Then again, I could just point out that the Hosing failed - the business
end is not pointed at an active, non-sheltered player, as I am in my home
(and am therefore sheltered by the Water Tower).

Yours,
Slakko
wasting your time with pointless haiku

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:08:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > I create a trinket entitled "The Folly of Fooling with Anyone Whose Name
> > Begins with 'Sla'", valued at A$11, with a description of "And don't let
> > it happen again" and give it to Veal Fan.
> 
> Watch it, or I'll change my name to Slalfvaen...then where will you be?

Then he'll just energize it to Vane Falls, or something like that.

- -- 
Duncan C. "Slakko, just, still, plain old Slakko" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:16:41 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Hosiery

> Then again, I could just point out that the Hosing failed - the business
> end is not pointed at an active, non-sheltered player, as I am in my home
> (and am therefore sheltered by the Water Tower).

Curses!  Foiled again!

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Tim Finn:Escapade
Current Book--Michael P. Kube-McDowell:Alternities
It was just dark enough to capture my imagination.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:17:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Robbing mr cwm's Grave

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# What does The Gingham Wearer find?
# 1-4    Bonus Vote
# 5-15   Prosthetic Forehead
# 16     Chalice from the Palace
# 17     Haddocks' Eyes Locket
# 18     Little Bag O' Chips A
# 19     IWW
# 20     Little Wooden Ship #8

No. of sides on every die:     20
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      5

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Wed Feb 18 15:16:49 1998
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id PAA29687 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:16:49 -0800
> Received: from edtntnt1-port-108.agt.net(204.209.198.101) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma029681; Wed Feb 18 15:16:42 1998
> Received: (from alfvaen@localhost) by telusplanet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA01458 for [email-masked]; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:05:18 -0700
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Dig
> To: [email-masked]
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:05:17 -0700 (MST)
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
> Content-Type: text
> 
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 20
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Robbing mr cwm's Grave
> 
> #C What does The Gingham Wearer find?
> #C
> #C 1-4    Bonus Vote
> #C 5-15   Prosthetic Forehead
> #C 16     Chalice from the Palace
> #C 17     Haddocks' Eyes Locket
> #C 18     Little Bag O' Chips A
> #C 19     IWW
> #C 20     Little Wooden Ship #8
> 
> 

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+PkxpmE3Jq/eKzfvsIaMn2lRSnw+pVEQtnEjQMGrqOT7+zxy/GO4YjcP+u/2diTL
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=uJOD
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:21:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > A new auction commences for the Fix My Gadget card: Minimum bid is A$0.
> 
> If this has occurred, then I pay A$10 to get the Fix My Gadget card out
> of the Treasury.  (I mean, who owns it?  Slakko?  What would prevent him
> from playing them all while the Auctions went on?)

Hey - I do own it.  I created it, right?  After all, when you create a
Trinket it doesn't go to the Treasury.  You just have to trust that the
RuneMaker is responsible enough not to go into Contempt by using up the
items e is legally obliged to auction off.

I believe the logical default assumption is when a player creates
something it is created in eir possession.  If the SC disagrees with this,
then fine.  But, in the mean time, the auction is still going on, and
Alfvaen will lose the Fix My Gadget trinket when it is completed, provided
e still has it, should it be ruled that the cards are in the Treasury.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:29:33 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Robbing mr cwm's Grave

> # What does The Gingham Wearer find?
> # 1-4    Bonus Vote
> # 5-15   Prosthetic Forehead
> # 16     Chalice from the Palace
> # 17     Haddocks' Eyes Locket
> # 18     Little Bag O' Chips A
> # 19     IWW
> # 20     Little Wooden Ship #8

>       5

This is the forehead created for mr cwm as part of one of snowgod's
presidential campaigns.  (As opposed to one of those snowgod created
for others, that mr cwm ended up with as well.)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Marc Cohn:Ghost Train
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
G is for George, smothered under a rug, H is for Hector, done in by a thug.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:03:37 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results and Hubert Pilfer

> > > A new auction commences for the Fix My Gadget card: Minimum bid is A$0.

> > If this has occurred, then I pay A$10 to get the Fix My Gadget card out
> > of the Treasury.  (I mean, who owns it?  Slakko?  What would prevent him
> > from playing them all while the Auctions went on?)

> Hey - I do own it.  I created it, right?  After all, when you create a
> Trinket it doesn't go to the Treasury.  You just have to trust that the
> RuneMaker is responsible enough not to go into Contempt by using up the
> items e is legally obliged to auction off.

If this is the case, then how were you able to own more than 6 Otzma Cards
during the Auction period?  Shouldn't you select ten or so Otzma Cards to
be randomly destroyed until you are brought down to the legal maximum?

> I believe the logical default assumption is when a player creates
> something it is created in eir possession.  If the SC disagrees with this,
> then fine.

Perhaps we should instead head Rule 500.2, which says that unless otherwise
specified a newly created entity is unowned.  (And the Trinkets rule does
otherwise specify, but the Otzma Card Rule Suite does not.)

> But, in the mean time, the auction is still going on, and
> Alfvaen will lose the Fix My Gadget trinket when it is completed, provided
> e still has it, should it be ruled that the cards are in the Treasury.

An interesting conjecture.  I'm not sure if Section 6c) of Rule 516 should
be read that way or not.  (I do see that you're correct about else...if's
not having gained the Fix My Gadget card, and note that e is also in
Contempt.)

I see a few CFJ's coming out of this one.  (I've already submitted one
about the Otzma Cards really being in the Treasury, but I'm curious as
to whether I would in fact lose the Fix My Gadget Otzma Card[trinket?]
at the conclusion of the Auction.)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Peter Gabriel:Digging In The Dirt
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
Be frightened.  Be terrified.  One day, your characters will come for you.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:05:32 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Bounce

Does anyone else have trouble emailing Rex Mundi?  I've been trying to
send em my Mediocrity play, but it keeps saying "Connection refused
by mail.globecomm.net".  Is this the place that was ultra-paranoid
about spammers?  If this is happening because of a spammer on my ISP,
I'll be annoyed.  (Email is also bouncing to Phil Bordelon, formerly
known as Sunflare, who is interested in rejoining as an observer to
study us...:-)

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Peter Gabriel:Digging In The Dirt
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
Schroeder's Cat--put in a box until Beethoven's Birthday

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:07:22 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Contempt (else...if)

In case you missed it, else...if seems to be in Contempt for bidding more
A$ than e had.  The usual A$100 fine/3 days in Gaol choice applies.

I also wonder what this says about the character of our Caped Crusader.
Shame!

- --
- --Veal Fan(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Peter Gabriel:Digging In The Dirt
Current Book--R.A. Lafferty:Past Master
WARNING: This product not intended for use by stupid people.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:09:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bounce

> Does anyone else have trouble emailing Rex Mundi?  I've been trying to
> send em my Mediocrity play, but it keeps saying "Connection refused
> by mail.globecomm.net". 

Yeah, I get this too; the last two or three plays I have gotten one of
those "mail could not be delivered for 4 hours, still trying, you do not
need to resend" messages, but eventually sendmail gets the message through.
I think some link along the path his mail travels is poorly connected.
(I am somewhat confused by the fact that I am sending him stuff at
earthling.net, but the warning message comes from globecomm, which is
trying to deliver mail to force.co.uk... the sheer number of forwards
here has to be problematic.)

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:32:14 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bounce

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > Does anyone else have trouble emailing Rex Mundi?  I've been trying to
> > send em my Mediocrity play, but it keeps saying "Connection refused
> > by mail.globecomm.net". 
> 
> Yeah, I get this too; the last two or three plays I have gotten one of
> those "mail could not be delivered for 4 hours, still trying, you do not
> need to resend" messages, but eventually sendmail gets the message through.
> I think some link along the path his mail travels is poorly connected.
> (I am somewhat confused by the fact that I am sending him stuff at
> earthling.net, but the warning message comes from globecomm, which is
> trying to deliver mail to force.co.uk... the sheer number of forwards
> here has to be problematic.)

There is only one forward; globecomm.net is the MX for earthling.net.  The
first time I hhad problems sending mail, I tried sending mail directly to
the force.co.uk address, which promptly bounced.  The bounce indicated
that the mail daeman died of sig 11 (seg fault).  Me thinks they got a
(more than normally...) buggy version of sendmail

rufus

> 
> /dev/joe
> 

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V3 #29
******************************