Subject: ackanomic digest V3 #509
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Wednesday, February 4 1998      Volume 03 : Number 509

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 03:07:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Treasure Announcement

I am burying the "Winning Betting Slip" as a Treasure.

That damn Archaeologist better get on with it sometime, otherwise if I
leave the game in the far future no-one will ever find this slip.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
Acka - RuneMaker, Chess-Umpire, Map-Harfer, Senator, Wearing Agenda Hat

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:18:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Player (Niccolo Flychuck)

Welcome to Ackanomic Illusion,

Niccolo Flychuck
Your Mentor

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> We have another new player joining us.  Eir name is Andrew Stefanski,
> eir email address is <[email-masked]>, and e has chosen the
> Ackanomic name Illusion.  Niccolo Flychuck has been chosen as eir mentor.
> 
> Welcome, Illusion!
> 
> 
> - --
> - --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Song In My Head--Fleetwood Mac:Eyes of The World
> Current Book--Barbara Smucker:Underground To Canada
> A committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:32:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Stuff

> Device is still Pending; I'm not sure if e returned from eir undeclared
> vacation or not yet.  Hachiman's votingness is up to Hachiman.  (Hmmmm...
> if a player starts out non-voting and then becomes pending and then
> active that way, are Whamiols still triggered?)

I would say yes, as the rule states: "Whenever a new Player enters the
game and becomes an active player ..." It doesn't seem to matter what
states they go through beforehand.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:14:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Silver Moon Candidates

In the thread(s) where we are charged with voting on the Silver Moon
Candidates (and in the thread(s) where we aren't, I suppose), I have
put all the candidates together in one place. You can visit them at:
<http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/acka/smc/>.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:41:32 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Gaol Cell

Ah, another Acka citizen takes advantage of the Gaol's latchkey program.
Slakko was in Sunday and out Monday.  He occupied cell 2763451, in the lower
depths of the Gaol, along with a skeleton that some Gaolers have believed
belonged to one of the ancients.  Other than that, the cell is small, dusty
and only slightly radioactive.

ThinMan
Gaoler

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:06:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: YORL

Texas, a wild land which lends itself to a wilder breed of people.  Here in
the west, life and death go hand in hand.  And a mans honor is all that
makes him a man.  Sam hunkered down closer into his saddle as the wind
picked up, blowing dust across the barren plains.  The cold seeped through
the hardened leather of his chaps, through the denim underneath and
straight through the flesh 'till it hit bone.  There it stayed, an icy
warning that if he didn't find shelter soon, those bones would never feel
warmth again.  The moon shone full and by its light, he spotted movement up
ahead.  Spurring his tired horse onward, he approached the small herd of
cattle.  They had run all day and most of the night after the stampede, and
now they were tired, their breath coming out of them in hot, white clouds
of steam.  Knowing that he would never get them all the way home tonight,
he let his mare push her way among them, pressing in close for warmth.
Dropping the reins, he placed a hand on the mare's flank and spoke soothing
words.  He had raised her since she was new born and she would never feel
fear while his hand was on her.  He edged her over to a small clump of
rocks and climbed down.  Unpacking his blankets, he knew it was close to
dawn, but a few hours of sleep were all he needed.  Too tired to start a
fire, he soaked in the warmth of the cattle as he lay down in the shelter
of the rocks to sleep.

play: cowboy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:08:21 -0500 (EST)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Doom

Don't think I didn't notice.  And don't think that I didn't notice that
you not only proposed the *same* proposal as I did, cleverly before
mine, and then conspired to get it rejected after I retracted mine and
voted for yours.

I've got my eye on you.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Towsner [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Tuesday, February 03, 1998 4:33 PM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Re: Acka: Doom
>
>
>	Gee.  I had a great time.  First there was a feast, then I got
>taken to a party in one a the smaller cells, and then...*blush*  Well,
>anyway, I had a great time.  I guess it was because those guys were friends
>of mine.  Being Caped Crusader has such great perks.
>
>--
>-Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran
>
>	<[email-masked]>
>
>	Success is the child of audacity.
>		-Benjamin Disraeli
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:22:34 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Gaol

Yeah, those rafter wannabes are out now.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:25:25 -0500 (EST)
From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 518 (FALSE)

> > Given that "the standard harfer fee" is a rule defined term, the most
> > reasonable interpretation of rule 1007 would be that that, at least A$25
> > is required for an organisation to change its name, rather than
> > ownership of a particular trinket which happens to have a phrase in its
> > name which means $A25.
>
> I'm not going to appeal this.

Glad to hear it :)

> I'm just going to point out that K 2 made absolutely no mention of my
> trinket "at least the standard harfer fee" in eir argument.  May I be told
> why?
>

Another case of : I was thinking it, I just didn't write it....the quoted
sentence does, however, refer (in a circuitous manner) to "at least the standard
harfer fee"....

>Yours,

> Slakko
> mystified and bewildered as always

you too huh?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:43:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Boo-Boo

I hope that breadbox wont postalise me as a result of my oversight when
replying to Illusion.

It would make harfing the Chess very difficult indeed (although hopefully
worthy of a Silver Moon should I succeed in rhyming the whole of the Chess
Board locations and Swinger weights).

Yours,
Slakko

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
Acka - RuneMaker, Chess-Umpire, Map-Harfer, Senator, Wearing Agenda Hat

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:21:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 531 (hoover 2300)

> I resign as clerk of courts because I am caught in between a loophole.

> hoover 2300

Isn't this illegal? Impossible actions were last time I looked and
resigning from a position you don't hold sounds pretty impossible to me.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:26:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 527 (FALSE)

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 527 - January 30, 1998
Subject: Cycle Win
Initiator: Slakko
Judge: Alfvaen (selected February 3, 1998, 11:50 p.m.)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

In an alphabetical ordering of Ackanomic players, Slakko appears prior to
The Gingham Wearer.

Reasoning:  

Rule 340 determines alphabetical ordering as follows:

VII. Alphabetical ordering shall be determined by a word-by-word
comparison, each word compared letter-by-letter. For these purposes: A
word is considered to be delimited by whitespace; an initial 'The' or
'the' is ignored; a single string of digits is considered equivalent to a
letter; digital 'letters' precede alphabetical letters; accented letters
come immediately after the unaccented form of the letter; and
non-alphanumeric characters are ignored; and case is ignored. All else
failing, two words that are otherwise equivalent shall be sorted in ASCII
collation order. 

The text "A word is considered to be delimited by whitespace" is
superseded by the text "non-alphanumeric characters are ignored", which
appears later in the text, as space characters are not alphanumeric.
Hence, The Gingham Wearer would appear after Slakko in an alphabetically
sorted list of Ackanomic players.

Just one more reason to fix Rule 340.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

This is Malenkai's fault, for making me take my lovely baroque rule "Aleph
Beth Gimel" and squeeze it into a tiny little clause of Rule 340.  :-)

First, I note that whether or not Rule 340 works on a word level, an
initial "The" is still deleted, so if the ignoring of non-alphanumeric
characters happens before separation into words, we now have(with case
ignoring as well), "ginghamwearer" and "slakko".  (However, I note that
"Theatre Monkey", for instance, would turn into "atremonkey", and would
also come before "Slakko", which is in fact broken.)

But I do agree with the main point of Slakko's CFJ, which is that the
ignoring of non-alphanumeric characters may indeed happen before the
delimitation of words by whitespace.  Or, rather, it's ambiguous.
Unlike this CFJ, which is easily settled.

Luckily, we haven't had any big problems relying on alphabetical ordering,
so I encourage anyone thinking of probing deeply into this matter to think
carefully before submitting CFJ's whose relevance to the play of the game
is microscopic.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:39:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 532 (Fortunato)

Fortunato has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 532 - February 3, 1998
Subject: Malenkai Win Attempt
Initiator: Alfvaen (sent February 3, 1998, 5:33 p.m.)
Judge: Fortunato (selected February 4, 1998, 2:40 p.m.)
Judgement:

Statement:

Crackfoo was a deabeat on CFJ 512.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

CFJ 512 was distributed by me, as Acting Clerk of the Courts, at Tue, 13
Jan
1998 10:31:27 -0500.  (Well, that's the time it was received by muppetlabs,
anyway...)

As far as I can tell, from looking through the Digests, Crackfoo made
one public response:

Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eidolon.speakeasy.org (8.8.6/8.6.12)
id JAA31913 for ackanomic-outgoing.muppetlabs; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:52:41
- -0800
From:	"Crackfoo" <[email-masked]>
To:	"acka" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ judge selections
Date:	Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:48:12 -0600

I can't help but wonder why over the last several months I haven't been =
selected to judge any cfj's.  But Alvaen is CotC for 24 hours and my =
name is selected.  The random selection process doesn't seem to be =
working properly.=20

Crackfoo
(and then it turns out Alvaen shouldn't have assigned the cfj anyway?)

Then, at Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:14:38 -0500, Crackfoo said:

I judged cfj512 that was distributed by alvaen.  my judgement was 'false'.
The message to alvaen apparently has been bouncing and may or may not have
reached him yet.

For Crackfoo to have judged CFJ 512, e must have accepted the CFJ.  This
was during a time of thread confusion, but in the thread which eventually
prevailed, I appointed Balsamic Dragon Clerk of the Courts at Jan 15 00:18
Ackatime.  I received no acknowledgement, nor verdict, from Crackfoo
before that time; if Balsamic Dragon received one of the above before
Crackfoo's one-week deadline expired at 20 Jan 1998 10:31:27 -0500, then
the only problem is that this verdict has not yet been officially
distributed.
Otherwise, Crackfoo is a deadbeat and the Praetor(Malenkai)should go on to
judge it.

So this should be easy to judge if Balsamic Dragon knows whether or not
e received a private acceptance from Crackfoo.  I'm willing to bet e did
not, since e was still trying to send me a verdict days later.

I suppose it's also possible the above fully-quoted message could be
considered an acceptance, but I think that's too much of a stretch; it's
a comment, nothing more.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:40:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 530 (FALSE)

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 530 - February 3, 1998
Subject: Another Slakko Scam
Initiator: Slakko (sent February 2, 1998, 2:48 p.m.)
Judge: else..if  (selected February 3, 1998, 11:45 p.m.)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

It appears equally legal and illegal for Slakko to convert the trinket "A
Fun Little Scam Win" into Ackadollars

Slakko's Reasoning:

The Supreme Court's decision on CFJ 523 implies that the statement

"I creat a Trynket ..." will be treated as if it were
"I create a Trinket ..." by Rule 340.

But then according to Rule 340 we are looking at the phrase "I create a
Trinket ...".  But this means that it is not a spelling error, and so no
correction is made.  So we are really looking at "I creat a Trinket ..."

This all boils down to the definition of "treated" in the rules.
Treated, from Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, means:

1 a : to deal with in speech or writing : EXPOUND b : to present or
represent artistically c : to deal with : HANDLE <food is plentiful and
treated
with imagination -- Cecil Beaton>

Nowhere in this definition does it say "interpret" - nor does it do so in
the full Merriam-Webster definition.  Therefore we end up in an infinite
loop, where the treatment's application implies that the treatment is not
applied, which implies that the treatment is applied etc. etc.

Judges Comments

	The relevent section of 340 reads "Unambiguous spelling errors
shall be treated as if the mispelled word were spelled correctly, except
during the process of rule-sanctioned spelling correction."  This sentence
sounds to me a great deal like rule-sanctioned spelling correction.  In
fact, it is.  So for the purposes of other rules the word is spelled
correctly, but when this rule is being applied it is not.  I judge this
FALSE.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:44:10 -0500 (EST)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: CFJ 532 (Fortunato)

I accept.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Vivian Norwood [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:39 PM
>To:	Ackanomic
>Subject:	Acka: CFJ 532 (Fortunato)
>
>Fortunato has been selected.
>
>Clerk of the Courts
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Call For Judgement 532 - February 3, 1998
>Subject: Malenkai Win Attempt
>Initiator: Alfvaen (sent February 3, 1998, 5:33 p.m.)
>Judge: Fortunato (selected February 4, 1998, 2:40 p.m.)
>Judgement:
>
>Statement:
>
>Crackfoo was a deabeat on CFJ 512.
>
>Alfvaen's Reasoning:
>
>CFJ 512 was distributed by me, as Acting Clerk of the Courts, at Tue, 13
>Jan
>1998 10:31:27 -0500.  (Well, that's the time it was received by muppetlabs,
>anyway...)
>
>As far as I can tell, from looking through the Digests, Crackfoo made
>one public response:
>
>Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eidolon.speakeasy.org (8.8.6/8.6.12)
>id JAA31913 for ackanomic-outgoing.muppetlabs; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:52:41
>-0800
>From:	"Crackfoo" <[email-masked]>
>To:	"acka" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Acka: CFJ judge selections
>Date:	Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:48:12 -0600
>
>
>I can't help but wonder why over the last several months I haven't been =
>selected to judge any cfj's.  But Alvaen is CotC for 24 hours and my =
>name is selected.  The random selection process doesn't seem to be =
>working properly.=20
>
>
>Crackfoo
>(and then it turns out Alvaen shouldn't have assigned the cfj anyway?)
>
>
>Then, at Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:14:38 -0500, Crackfoo said:
>
>I judged cfj512 that was distributed by alvaen.  my judgement was 'false'.
>The message to alvaen apparently has been bouncing and may or may not have
>reached him yet.
>
>
>For Crackfoo to have judged CFJ 512, e must have accepted the CFJ.  This
>was during a time of thread confusion, but in the thread which eventually
>prevailed, I appointed Balsamic Dragon Clerk of the Courts at Jan 15 00:18
>Ackatime.  I received no acknowledgement, nor verdict, from Crackfoo
>before that time; if Balsamic Dragon received one of the above before
>Crackfoo's one-week deadline expired at 20 Jan 1998 10:31:27 -0500, then
>the only problem is that this verdict has not yet been officially
>distributed.
>Otherwise, Crackfoo is a deadbeat and the Praetor(Malenkai)should go on to
>judge it.
>
>So this should be easy to judge if Balsamic Dragon knows whether or not
>e received a private acceptance from Crackfoo.  I'm willing to bet e did
>not, since e was still trying to send me a verdict days later.
>
>I suppose it's also possible the above fully-quoted message could be
>considered an acceptance, but I think that's too much of a stretch; it's
>a comment, nothing more.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:51:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 532 (Fortunato)

In regards to this CFJ:  

I did not receive an private e-mail with acceptance or a verdict for this
CFJ from Crackfoo.  I suspect that the problem stems from the following
e-mail posted by Malenkai:

> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> To: Ackanomic <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: CFJ 512 (Goldenmean)
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 9:41 PM
> 
> This was not distributed as described in the rules 
> the first time.  It has been assigned to Goldenmean
> this time.
> 
> Clerk of the Courts
> anxiously awaiting retirement :)
> ----------
> From:  aaron shapiro
> Sent:  Tuesday, January 13, 1998 2:10 AM
> To:  'ak registrar'
> Subject:  acka:CFJ
> 
> 
> Statement:
> Malenkai was unable to leave the game.
> 
> 
> Reasoning:
> Rule one states that "Those players who were members of Vulcan on August 
> 28, 1997 [/dev/joe, Malenkai, ThinMan, andVynd] are Evil Overlords of 
> Ackanomic (retired)"
> This I take as meaning they are always the only members of the Evil
Overlords
> Of Ackanomic (retired)(hereafter EOA).
> The rule also states "No other players and no non-players are
EvilOverlords of 
> Ackanomic (retired). "
> So malenkai must be a member of EOA, but as a non player cannot be a 
> member of EOA.
> 
> So either malenkai was unable to leave, or the customary interpretation
of rule
> one must change.  As rule one states "The game state may not be altered
in 
> such a way as to cause the customary interpretation of this rule to be 
> changed." The customary interpretation may not be changed and so malenkai
was
> unable to leave the game.

Instead of indicating that this was an alternate CFJ in a thread split, it
makes it seem (to me at least) that Crackfoo no longer had any
responsibilities.

- ----------
> From: Vivian Norwood <[email-masked]>
> To: Ackanomic <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: CFJ 532 (Fortunato)
> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 2:39 PM
> 
> Fortunato has been selected.
> 
> Clerk of the Courts
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 532 - February 3, 1998
> Subject: Malenkai Win Attempt
> Initiator: Alfvaen (sent February 3, 1998, 5:33 p.m.)
> Judge: Fortunato (selected February 4, 1998, 2:40 p.m.)
> Judgement:
> 
> Statement:
> 
> Crackfoo was a deabeat on CFJ 512.
> 
> Alfvaen's Reasoning:
> 
> CFJ 512 was distributed by me, as Acting Clerk of the Courts, at Tue, 13
> Jan
> 1998 10:31:27 -0500.  (Well, that's the time it was received by
muppetlabs,
> anyway...)
> 
> As far as I can tell, from looking through the Digests, Crackfoo made
> one public response:
> 
> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by eidolon.speakeasy.org
(8.8.6/8.6.12)
> id JAA31913 for ackanomic-outgoing.muppetlabs; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:52:41
> -0800
> From:	"Crackfoo" <[email-masked]>
> To:	"acka" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: CFJ judge selections
> Date:	Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:48:12 -0600
> 
> 
> I can't help but wonder why over the last several months I haven't been =
> selected to judge any cfj's.  But Alvaen is CotC for 24 hours and my =
> name is selected.  The random selection process doesn't seem to be =
> working properly.=20
> 
> 
> Crackfoo
> (and then it turns out Alvaen shouldn't have assigned the cfj anyway?)
> 
> 
> Then, at Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:14:38 -0500, Crackfoo said:
> 
> I judged cfj512 that was distributed by alvaen.  my judgement was
'false'.
> The message to alvaen apparently has been bouncing and may or may not
have
> reached him yet.
> 
> 
> For Crackfoo to have judged CFJ 512, e must have accepted the CFJ.  This
> was during a time of thread confusion, but in the thread which eventually
> prevailed, I appointed Balsamic Dragon Clerk of the Courts at Jan 15
00:18
> Ackatime.  I received no acknowledgement, nor verdict, from Crackfoo
> before that time; if Balsamic Dragon received one of the above before
> Crackfoo's one-week deadline expired at 20 Jan 1998 10:31:27 -0500, then
> the only problem is that this verdict has not yet been officially
> distributed.
> Otherwise, Crackfoo is a deadbeat and the Praetor(Malenkai)should go on
to
> judge it.
> 
> So this should be easy to judge if Balsamic Dragon knows whether or not
> e received a private acceptance from Crackfoo.  I'm willing to bet e did
> not, since e was still trying to send me a verdict days later.
> 
> I suppose it's also possible the above fully-quoted message could be
> considered an acceptance, but I think that's too much of a stretch; it's
> a comment, nothing more.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:09:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Retraction

I retract proposal 2691.  I'm going to resubmit this in a few days to deal
with the Mad Hatters.  PLEASE give me any other suggestions now so I don't
have to retract it again.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:28:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Retraction

On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Towsner wrote:

> I retract proposal 2691.  I'm going to resubmit this in a few days to deal
> with the Mad Hatters.  PLEASE give me any other suggestions now so I don't
> have to retract it again.

I'm quite happy with the rest of it, and can't think of anything right
now. It's just that the Mad Hatters only got up and going, and it would be
a shame to shut them down so soon.

Yours,
Slakko
having a nice little CFJ war in .Nomic - check out the 'froup traffic!
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
Acka - RuneMaker, Chess-Umpire, Map-Harfer, Senator, Wearing Agenda Hat

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:56:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 531 (hoover 2300)

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Malenkai wrote:

> Yes, it comes down to handwaving "Ackanomic tradition" and the 
> entityhood of Swingpoints, an "interesting question of 
> interpretation".  I do not know of any "tradition" that makes 
> them entities, though (not to say that there isn't any; OTOH, 
> treating them as entities in the past may have been incorrect).
> 
> It has always been my take that the tradition had to exist at the
> time rule 500 was created, for the following reason:  At the time
> rule 500 was created, there were some things in the rules that were
> not entities, and for which no tradition existed that made them
> entities.  Swingpoints were such a thing.  I do not believe they
> could *become* entities over time, i.e. tradition could not be created
> on the fly to sort of gradually make them entities; any such attempted
> treatment after rule 500 was created was just wrong, and fixed by the
> pragmatism clause.

If tradition is not created on the fly, 
How is tradition created Malenkai?

At one point the tradition was nowhere,
Then suddenly it came - and we were aware.

That Swingpoints were entities, plain to see.
The Rules imply it obviously.

> All that has been cited is the vague tradeable thing.  I see nothing
> in the rules or tradition where tradeable implies entityhood; indeed, 
> the language I remember for entities is 'X is a tradeable *entity*'.

To see tradition is to see the wind.
ThinMan can't do it and nor can Vynd.

It is as ethereal as the breeze,
And like it, it changes as we please.

Interpretation is the key.
The Rules imply that obviously.

> The 'game state cannot be changed' argument is completly off base, though,
> as I have described in the reasoning of the CFJ.  Whether or not the
> Court ultimately decides that "ackanomic tradition" indicates Swingpoints
> are entities, which I think would be a mistake, the problem in rule 101
> that allows this to even get this close is still a major problem.  
> Perhaps other exploits of this will be found before rule 101 is put
> back :-)

Malenkai says this tradition is mistake.
Should I tell him to jump in a lake?

No, for this would be a terrible waste.
An argument like this just has to be faced.

But tradition exists, its plain to see.
Rule 500 says so, obviously.

Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens', Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa), Graph Theory - CU SFS/RS/STS/Dip
Acka - RuneMaker ChessUmpire Senator Map-Harfer .Nomic - HP(Morpork)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:47:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Gaolbird

Slakko went to Gaol at 16:52 on Sunday, and was released at 16:52 on
Monday.

He definitely posted more than three public messages in that time,
although I hope no one feels like submitting a CFCJ on him for that,
as that would be a tad bit obnoxious.

However, I believe this means that Slakko did not successfully make
Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice in any thread. Nor did he create a
Trinket (and nor did he creat a Trynket) called "A Fun Little Scam
Win". The Finiancier should take note. (Another reason why CFJ 530
would be False, if it hadn't already been judged so.)

breadbox

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Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 21:51:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2664 accepted

> Results of Proposal 2664
> 
> 20/24 votes: Quorum achieved
> 18/21 YES votes: Proposal accepted

>> Proposal 2664 - Wed 28 Jan 1998 16:59 EST
>> FM tweak
>> Vynd (John McCoy)
>> 
>> This is a Modest Proposal.
>> 
>> Amend Rule 594 by replacing "initially created by a Proposal." in section
>> i) with:
>> 
>> part of the initial Ruleset, or initially created by a Proposal.

I don't know why we seem to be having trouble amending the
Frankenstein Monster rule in particular, but this is a Null Proposal.

I encourage players to include rule titles with the numbers when they
refer to them, as game custom would then allow the wrong numbers to be
treated as spelling errors.

breadbox

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End of ackanomic digest V3 #509
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