Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #465
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Thursday, January 15 1998      Volume 02 : Number 465

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:10:27 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 512 (two-star)

> CFJ 512?

> two-star has been selected.  I presume this
> is CFJ 512.  I also apologize for not knowing
> the initiator's acka name, and I cannot get to
> the web pages due to 'document contains no data'.

Oh, poot.  I guess I'm running too close to my 2-meg quota
again here, and because ftp is not smart enough to delete a
file before trying to write a new copy, I need space for both
copies before it'll write.

So what happened is that I uploaded a bunch of pages, the main
page being the first of these, and it decided there wasn't
enough disk space for it, but not before clobbering the old copy.

If any of my Assistant Web-Harfers with tons of disk space wants
to take one of the big pages, like Phoebe or *ping* or Prosthetic
Foreheads, I would be much obliged.  Or stuff that's not going to
change at all, like the scores from Cycle 16...

Anyway, eir name is "Bill the pirate king", and that was indeed
CFJ 512.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Mozart:Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
"Let's not raise a giant sunflower to use as a punching bag."  --cdick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:18:29 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: returning

> I return in the thread in which I am not a player.  That
> should make it easier.  I imagine that this doesn't happen
> until Alfvaen acks it.

I'm not sure, but if I do, I do.  (All the actions in this message
should be considered to take place in the thread where I am Acting
Speaker and Malenkai was able to leave.)

> Also, if there is time left, I will try to claim my offices
> back, so the sooner this happens, the better.  That should
> collapse the threads totally, but I may have to re-vote
> on some proposals.  Therefore, if I can, I volunteer for
> all offices open except senator.

Actually, I think the nominations all closed last night.
Except for Praetor, which nobody volunteered for.

In the interests of getting things out of the way most quickly, I hereby
appoint Balsamic Dragon Clerk of the Courts, as long as e promises to
resign quickly so we can start this all over again.

In this thread, I will announce the candidates for Speaker and
Senator in separate messages, and rufus can call the elections.
I suppose I should officially release the CFJ results too,
even if I think releasing the verdict of CFJ 513 in my thread
is paradoxical.  But what the heck.

> Then, when things are unified, I will resign from the offices
> in an orderly manner.  This is what I should have done the
> first time around.

Ah, well, hindsight is 20/20.

> This seems to make more sense than me resigning my offices
> in the other thread, which will cause more confusion.

Yeah, it'll be nice to have a Clerk of the Courts to handle
the CFJ's next time you try to leave.  Or right now, even...
And since it's a Functional Office, if you announce Intention
to Resign there will be a nice smooth transition.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Thompson Twins:Here's To Future Days
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
The sky is falling ... no, I'm tipping over backwards.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:21:23 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Speaker/Senator Elections

In the thread where I am Acting Speaker, I hereby announce the following
Nomination results:

Speaker:

Alfvaen
K 2

Senator:

Slakko
Rex Mundi
else...if

If I set this up right, reply-to's should go to rufus, our Count Tabula.
(Tomorrow I'll submit my Proposal to let em take care of Nominations
too...)  And be careful to indicate who you want for which Office,
although I suppose there's no overlap between the two...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Thompson Twins:Here's To Future Days
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
I've plummeted to my death and I can't get up!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:35:10 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka:  Speaker election

In the thread/threads where he can legally do so, Alfvaen has called an 
Election for the office of Speaker.  If you reply to this message, and not
his, it will make my life a little easier.

The Nomoniees are Alfvaen and K 2

rufus
Count Tabula

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:42:34 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka:  glad typing not a prequisite! Senate election

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:38:36 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: acka: Senate election

In the thread/threads where he can legally do so Alfvaen has called an
election for Office of the Senate that was formerly held by mr cwm, Rebus
8-{}. (I think.)  If you responnd to this message, and not Alfvaen's
earlier one, it will make my life a little easier.

Teh nominees are
Slakko
Rex Mundi
else...if

rufus, your Count Tabula

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:35:46 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Dumb Stuff I Gotta Do Today

Today is January 15th, the third Thursday in January, and I am chewing the
Gumball.  It tastes like lint with a hint of mint, but that's
understandable after all this time.  It still has not a hint of Bonus
Vote, but that's understandable too.  Innocently but uselessly, I suck on
the Gumball with this week's special edition "Savage Garden US No. 1"
wrapper.

Phoebe has left the telusplanet archives (well, I'll take it to save
Alfvaen some disk space)

http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/phoebe.html

Yours,
Slakko

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:51:38 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: returning

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Malenkai wrote:

> Also, not to beat a dead horse, but the comment I saw about
> presuming the verdict will go to the supreme court underscores
> my opinion that, to increase fun, the justice system needs to
> be democratized; the current system feels to me like others must
> have felt during that vulcan overlord business.  Last word on the
> issue, I promise :-) :-) (it really is pretty substantial 
> control of the game state -- at least our view of it -- one
> has to admit).

Actually, part of the reason I mentioned the SC is that I thought CFJ 513
had been appealed in the CFJ 513 TRUE thread (good trick that...).  So
regardless of what happens in the Malenkai never left thread, the Supreme
Court will have to look at the situation.  I never meant to imply an
automatic appeal from anybody.
- --
Duncan "break me shake me" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:19:26 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma! (2)

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > I announce that an Otzma Day will start at 5pm Acka time (10pm GMT) on
> > this coming Saturday, January 17th.
> 
> > Please note this is 10 days and approximately 25 minutes after the last
> > Otzma day finished.
> 
> I'd tend to think this is too close together, personally, but you are
> the RuneMaker...though only by random chance.  Also, shouldn't you make
> sure that the Proposal to fix the Auction thing goes through first?

Firstly, one of my unstated campaign goals for RuneMaker was to spread
around a bit more Otzma.  The last auction clearly indicated that demand
for Otzma was outstripping supply (I mean, nearly A$50 a card - what kind
of price is that?).  Given we've already had a 6 streak since the last
Otzma Day finished (2 of them, in fact), we could do with some more Otzma.

Secondly, yes I would like the Auction fix to go through.  But the rule as
it stands isn't broken, just a bit counter-intuitive.  The last auction
worked alright, even if it created a slightly wonky distribution.
- --
Duncan "wonky distributor" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:22:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Well, Indeed

> Very bright of the Vulcans to make it impossible for _them_ to amend Rule
> 1 when it needs fixing...you'd need a ukase to fix this one.

  A what?

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Visit ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/ and find out about text adventures!
If man had been meant to fly, he would have invented airplanes.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:32:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka:mess

> As has been said, it _is_ better to get this mess out of the way now,
> rather than discover it a week and a half from now and _then_ have to
> sort out the fact that all of the Speakerly and Clerk of the Courtly
> actions have failed, not to mention being Crimes.
> 
> But yeah, it's Slakko's fault as much as yours.  Or maybe it's Red
> Barn's fault for ruling TRUE on CFJ 513, since FALSE would've allowed us
> to go on playing for a little while longer...:-)

  (walks up to bench, looks pathetic)
  "Do I still get paid?"

  :-)

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Visit ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/ and find out about text adventures!
Schooling is not to impart knowledge, but to impart ability.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:39:45 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: returning

> Actually, part of the reason I mentioned the SC is that I thought CFJ 513
> had been appealed in the CFJ 513 TRUE thread (good trick that...).  So
> regardless of what happens in the Malenkai never left thread, the Supreme
> Court will have to look at the situation.  I never meant to imply an
> automatic appeal from anybody.

Actually, I was going to appeal in the most paradoxical way
possible :-)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:46:54 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Offices

Ok, I announce my intent to resign as CotC.  They
tell me that will be easier.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:40:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 512 (two-star)

> Also, can I make a suggestion?  It seems that these
> CFJs basically say the same thing.  Perhaps one or
> the other could be retracted, imagine the possible
> hairball ;-)

  No, it's easy:
  This is submitted in both threads of 513 (I assume) - so in one thread,
it's true.  In the other, it's false.  Sigh.

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Change Nomic!   http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~chatham/nomicfaq.html
If man had been meant to fly, he would have invented airplanes.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:43:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka:  Speaker election

> In the thread/threads where he can legally do so, Alfvaen has called an 
> Election for the office of Speaker.  If you reply to this message, and not
> his, it will make my life a little easier.
> 
> The Nomoniees are Alfvaen and K 2

  Alfvaen

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Visit ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/ and find out about text adventures!
Age is wasted on the old.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:04:14 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Offices

- ----------
> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> To: Ackanomic <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Offices
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 8:46 AM
> 
> Ok, I announce my intent to resign as CotC.  They
> tell me that will be easier.
> 

So does this mean that I should still resign or just announce my intent?  

Confusedly, 

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:04:37 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Treasure

I am burying a treasure comprising the following:

1 Automatic Sculpture
1 Otzma card untouch me
1 Chartreuse goose egg.

The following is probably something to do with the treasure, but probably
contains several mistakes :-)

NXKZZZCUUU
SXXXKZUUU
SKZUU
SXXXCUU
XZZ
SZXU
XZZCUU
XSZXUZ
XXZZUU
NZXUUU
XXKZZUC
SKZZZU
XNKZUUU
XZKU
UUU
XXUZ
XSZZZC
NCUU
XNZZC
SZX
XXZZZCUU
SKZZUUU
SU
SXXXZZ
XXZKUUU
SZZZCU
NXZKUZ
NXZKUZ
NXZXUUU
ZKC
XXXZZZU
XXKZUZ
SZZZUUU
NZC
XNZCUUU
ZZZUUU
XXZZUU
SXXZU
SXXXZXU
XXZC
XNK
XSZZC
XXXZZZ
XNZZZCUU
SXXKZZZC
XU
KZZZUC
NKC
XXKZZUC
XXKZZC
SXXXZKU
NX
XSUZ
SXKZZCUU
SKZZCUUU
XXC
XNKZCUUU
XXXCUU
XNZZZCUU
SXXZZUUU
KUUU
CUUU
SXXXKZZUZ
SXXXZZZCUU
SXZZZUC
XC
SZK
NXKZZZUZ

The Gingham Wearer, Treasure Harfer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:00:13 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Anti-Voting Discussion

Some relevant statistics for the anti-voting debate.

I have summed up the total points earnt for the last 20 proposals,
excluding my own throwing away of 5 points on my Malenkai Buster proposal.
(This would happen in either case anyway).  I give you the following
information - Proposal 2580 was retracted.

Proposal   Anti    No-Anti
2563        10        5
2564         6        5
2565         9        5
2566        10        5
2567        22       10
2568        23       -7
2569         9        5 
2570         9        5
2571         9        5
2572        17       -7
2573        25       10
2574         9        5
2575        23       -7
2576         6        5
2577         9        5
2578         1       -5
2579         9        5
2581        -1       -5
2582         9        5
2583        10        5

Total      224       54

Anti-voting is responsible for approximately three-quarters of all points
resulting from proposals.  If we abolish it, then unless we significantly
reduce the Magic Number (given that removal of anti-voting will lead to
spikes in the point distribution based on whoever submits proposals, we
don't need to divide it by 4) we will make wins by points even more
unlikely than they are now.

If you're going to stop wins by points, then by all means propose it.  But
if you just want to stop anti-voting, you'd better compensate us for the
loss of point gain opportunities.

I have no objection to stopping abuse of the anti-voting provisions.
That was the impetus behind my Triantivotigongalope proposal which was
rejected by a huge majority.  So what was the problem with that proposal,
if you don't like anti-voting?

- --
Duncan "nicey-nicey" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:12:16 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hubert

I hereby purchase the following Otzma Cards from the Treasury:

2 Otzma Cards Tactical Retreat
1 Otzma Card Paratroop
1 Otzma Card Art Thief

This costs me A$40.

Yours,
Slakko
Runemaker
and Hubert Guy

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:24:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hubert

> I hereby purchase the following Otzma Cards from the Treasury:
> 
> 2 Otzma Cards Tactical Retreat
> 1 Otzma Card Paratroop
> 1 Otzma Card Art Thief
> 
> This costs me A$40.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> Runemaker
> and Hubert Guy

It's like June all over again.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:21:49 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Anti-Voting Discussion

> Some relevant statistics for the anti-voting debate.
> 
> I have summed up the total points earnt for the last 20 proposals,
> excluding my own throwing away of 5 points on my Malenkai Buster
proposal.
> (This would happen in either case anyway).  I give you the following
> information - Proposal 2580 was retracted.
> 
> Proposal   Anti    No-Anti
>
> Total      224       54
> 
> Anti-voting is responsible for approximately three-quarters of all points
> resulting from proposals.  If we abolish it, then unless we significantly
> reduce the Magic Number (given that removal of anti-voting will lead to
> spikes in the point distribution based on whoever submits proposals, we
> don't need to divide it by 4) we will make wins by points even more
> unlikely than they are now.
> 
> If you're going to stop wins by points, then by all means propose it. 
But
> if you just want to stop anti-voting, you'd better compensate us for the
> loss of point gain opportunities.
> 
> I have no objection to stopping abuse of the anti-voting provisions.
> That was the impetus behind my Triantivotigongalope proposal which was
> rejected by a huge majority.  So what was the problem with that proposal,
> if you don't like anti-voting?

Good point. The magic number will need changing. I'm not really sure what
to. though. The way I look at it, winning almost exclusively by anti-voting
is not all that likely, and certainly not a good thing if it ever did
happen. Why, then keep anti-voting at all? You are right to point out that
it will lower the total number of points scored, but I don't see why that
is a problem, especially if the magic number is lowered. Eliminating
anti-votes would also make the scorekeeper's job easier.

As for your proposal 2530, the reason I voted present on it was that it was
much too complex. Hearings with more than two possibilities don't seem a
good idea to me. Take this as an example:

Possibility 1: 6 votes
Possibility 2: 5 votes
Possibility 3: 5 votes.

In the case of you proposal options 2 and 3 were fairly similar so the
voting would be split between them. From these results it is clear that
people think that the player should be punished, but he would not be.

An additional problem with anti-voting is as follows. At the moment I could
submit lots of grandiose proposals saying things like:
"Alfvaen and The Gingham Wearer both win a cycle"
"Alfvaen and The Gingham Wearer both receive A$10000 from the treasury"
"All players except for Alfvaen and The Gingham Wearer lose all entities
they own"
etc.

These proposals would not pass. However Alfvaen could vote yes on all of
them. If I submitted enough of them then Alfvaen would receive enough
points to win. Alfvaen could then give me, say, A$50 for my troubles.

There you go, a quick scam based on anti-voting. Even if your proposal 2530
had passed then this would still work because the points would be gained,
giving Alfvaen enough to win the cycle. Then, and only then, would the
effects of losing points happen so e would still have won a cycle. Whilst I
doubt anyone would stoop this low, it is still possible, and should be got
rid of.

The Gingham Wearer (hoping no-one's going to be petty enough to actually
try to this now).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:23:28 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Buying things

I am purchasing the Scientist for a Day and Go Fish cards from the
Treasury.

I am purchasing the Purple Robe of Justice from the Treasury, and wearing
it.

                                    - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:36:30 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

Any one want to collaberate with me on this one?  I have some ideas, but
I've run into a block.

Balsamic Dragon

- ----------
> From: The Gingham Wearer <[email-masked]>
> To: Acka <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Treasure
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 11:04 AM
> 
> I am burying a treasure comprising the following:
> 
> 1 Automatic Sculpture
> 1 Otzma card untouch me
> 1 Chartreuse goose egg.
> 
> The following is probably something to do with the treasure, but probably
> contains several mistakes :-)
> 
> 
> 
> NXKZZZCUUU
> SXXXKZUUU
> SKZUU
> SXXXCUU
> XZZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:27:46 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Offices

> > From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>

> > Ok, I announce my intent to resign as CotC.  They
> > tell me that will be easier.

> So does this mean that I should still resign or just announce my intent?  

Actually, in this case maybe you can remain CotC in one thread and then
become CotC in the other thread.  So I don't think you need to resign.
I'll announce the CotC Nomination(in the appropriate thread)posthaste.

What I'm not sure about is what is to be done with the CFJ results that
I didn't distribute while I was Acting CotC(before Malenkai's return).
Since I never officially distributed the verdicts of CFJ 513, not to mention
the CFJ 499 appeal, or rufus's Paradox Win CFJ(which I did receive)...
Maybe if those are all sent again to Balsamic Dragon they can be distributed
legitimately.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Man of La Mancha Soundtrack
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:29:01 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: CotC

In the thread where Malenkai never left, and has announced eir intention
to resign as Clerk of the Courts, I am announcing a Nomination for Clerk
of the Courts.

Reply to this message for consideration.  Although I can guarantee you
that whoever is CotC in the other thread(whether that ends up being
Balsamic Dragon or Malenkai)will end up with the position...:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Man of La Mancha Soundtrack
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
She wrote a long letter...on a short piece of paper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:22 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Duel

I am Alfvean's second in the duel against The Gingham Wearer. Alfvaen
has selected Ghost as the format of the duel. I have randomly selected
the gingham wearer to receive the number 1, and Alfvaen to receive the
number 2. 

Alvfaen stated, and wishes me to make known the following:

The statement quoted by Slakko as being offensive to "banna" was not
intended that way.  But after being hit with a brick in a glove(or a
glove around a brick), one does not give way easily.  Alfvaen is ready
to face The Gingham Wearer in a challenge of Ghost, and we shall see
first-hand evidence of the level of mental competence of the Priests
of banna.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:49:49 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Fowl

Well, since the buying Otzma Cards from the Treasury Proposal passed,
and all the good ones are taken, I guess I'll buy the Foul Fowl card
from the Treasury for A$10.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Dr. Hook:Greatest Hits
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
If not for C, we'd be using Pasal, obol, and BASI...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:56:26 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Dumb Stuff I Gotta Do Today

> Today is January 15th, the third Thursday in January, and I am chewing the
> Gumball.  It tastes like lint with a hint of mint, but that's
> understandable after all this time.  It still has not a hint of Bonus
> Vote, but that's understandable too.  Innocently but uselessly, I suck on
> the Gumball with this week's special edition "Savage Garden US No. 1"
> wrapper.

All right, Savage Garden is okay.  Though I still like the Spice Girls
better.  (And I imagine they just don't _make_ Kate Bush gumball
wrappers...mmmm...)

> Phoebe has left the telusplanet archives (well, I'll take it to save
> Alfvaen some disk space)

> http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/phoebe.html

Thank you very kindly.  Now I have a bit of space to play with, and maybe
I can try doing bi-threaded web pages.  (Since one player was foolish
enough to create a Trinket in one thread but not the other...)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Dr. Hook:Greatest Hits
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
You can't hang people before you've caught them.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:45:14 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fowl

> Well, since the buying Otzma Cards from the Treasury Proposal passed,
> and all the good ones are taken, I guess I'll buy the Foul Fowl card
> from the Treasury for A$10.
> 
#transfer RexBank, Rex Mundi: 20 A$.

And I'll take the Untouch Me and Swinging Sale, which I believe are still
there. This costs me 20 A$.

I then give all the A$ I have to RexBank.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:11:54 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Thank You for Your Information

Thanks to the help of a number of people (most especially Alfvaen) who
provided me with relevant information, together with a few hours spent
digging through the archives (hopefully this will be faster in the
future), I have collated together a lot of information about previous
holders of offices.

I have 45 offices listed.  Not all the offices are here, but all those
which are currently still in existence are on the list.  Offhand, the only
missing ones I can recall are GamesMaster and File Clerk.  I may get
around to those later.

I have complete information for 20 of the offices listed.  The rest of the
Offices have, as yet, only patchy information.  Many of them I will not be
able to find out further information about without getting information
which predates the start of the ackanomic mailing list.

So, if you have information about office holders which predates 29 May
1996, I would be extremely happy to hear from you.  If you don't, but you
think you have access to information of interest, please check my offices
page 

http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/offices.html

to see whether or not I have completed a particular office's history.
Of course, all that I need for the Hall of Elders is a list of who held
which office.  The date information is more to make it look authoritative.

Yours,
Slakko
Erstwhile Historical Statistician
- --
Duncan "will look authoritative for food" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:05:01 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Stripes, Again

Since Malenkai is now a player in both threads, I hereby award em
another Silver Stripe for reaching a Blue Cross Rank of 290.

I also award one to Slakko for eir BCR of 30.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--The Nylons:Happy Together
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
Why do words suddenly appear every time you are near?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:26:25 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Stripes, Again

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> Since Malenkai is now a player in both threads, I hereby award em
> another Silver Stripe for reaching a Blue Cross Rank of 290.
> 
> I also award one to Slakko for eir BCR of 30.

I graciously thank Alfvaen for granting me a Silver Stripe.
I also congratulate Malenkai for getting a 3rd Silver Stripe to go with
his Ruby Slipper and 2 Gold Stripes.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:00:43 -0800
From: aaron shapiro <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Proposal 2601

Am I wrong in thinking the last paragraph of rule one prevents this?
I seems to me it is designed to stop just this sort of thing??
				Still a little confused: Bill the Pirate King.

- ----------
From:  Brian Raiter
Sent:  Thursday, January 15, 1998 5:37 AM
To:  [email-masked]
Subject:  Acka: Proposal 2601

Proposal 2601
Still illogical
The Gingham Wearer (Tom Walmsley)

I was young and foolish then, I feel old and foolish now.

Modify rule 340 such that at the end is added, preceded by the lowest
integer Roman numeral not already in use:

"
For the purposes of rule numbering 2000 is less than 1.
"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:00:27 -0800
From: aaron shapiro <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Treasure

I would if I had any idea what was going on.  I need to read the rules governing 
tresaure.  If knowing what I am doing is not a prerequisite I will help you.
Buried treasure is something I am really want to look into.
			Bill the Pirate King.
- ----------
From:  Vivian Norwood
Sent:  Thursday, January 15, 1998 11:37 AM
To:  [email-masked]
Subject:  Re: Acka: Treasure

Any one want to collaberate with me on this one?  I have some ideas, but
I've run into a block.

Balsamic Dragon

- ----------
> From: The Gingham Wearer <[email-masked]>
> To: Acka <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Acka: Treasure
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 11:04 AM
> 
> I am burying a treasure comprising the following:
> 
> 1 Automatic Sculpture
> 1 Otzma card untouch me
> 1 Chartreuse goose egg.
> 
> The following is probably something to do with the treasure, but probably
> contains several mistakes :-)
> 
> 
> 
> NXKZZZCUUU
> SXXXKZUUU
> SKZUU
> SXXXCUU
> XZZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:03:26 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka : ROJ Auction

Fortunato's bid of A$10 was the highest in the Auction for RoJ#13

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:14:10 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2601

> Am I wrong in thinking the last paragraph of rule one prevents this?
> I seems to me it is designed to stop just this sort of thing??

Possibly, possibly not. It was definitely designed to stop this sort of
thing but whether it will or not, I'm not sure. It stopped a direct attempt
to renumber rule 2000 to 0 but this is a different matter.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:21:50 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> I would if I had any idea what was going on.  I need to read the rules
governing 
> tresaure.  If knowing what I am doing is not a prerequisite I will help
you.
> Buried treasure is something I am really want to look into.
> 			Bill the Pirate King.

The relevant rule is 1217. I would also point you to my treasure page if
geocities was playing up at the moment. Unfortunately it is so I've not
been able to update it. Your best bet is probably to have a look at
Malenkai's treasure page (link from the main Acka page; listed as "Old
treasure page" (or something similar)) and have a look at some treasures
from the past.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:20:18 -0600
From: "Crackfoo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: In Contempt

I am paying A$100 to the treasury to avoid going to gaol for contempt.

crackfoo

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:04 PM
Subject: Acka: In Contempt

>1) I hereby apologize to my fellow Committee members for not
>fulfilling my promise to report the results in time. (The deadline
>passed about four hours ago.) FWIW, the vote was unanimously for
>"inane"; I believe Crackfoo was the only one who abstained.
>
>2) I am paying A$100 to the Treasury. I am no longer in Contempt.
>
>3) I am hereby destroying the following trinkets:
>
>A$30   Manx Cat
>A$15   Military Laser
>A$33   Bug Bashing Implement
>A$77   Mister Cwm's Bench
>A$40   Fon-due Set
>A$100  Stormbringer
>A$29   The Public Ally
>
>for a total of A$324.
>
>4) I am hereby gifting Balsamic Dragon, K 2, Rex Mundi, Crackfoo,
>Alfvaen, and Niccolo Flychuck with A$100 each. I suggest that they pay
>this money to the Treasury ASAP if they don't want to go to Gaol for
>three days.
>
>5) I also offer an apology to Alfvaen for making morework for him with
>this message.
>
>breadbox
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:39:26 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Duel

> I am Alfvean's second in the duel against The Gingham Wearer. Alfvaen
> has selected Ghost as the format of the duel. I have randomly selected
> the gingham wearer to receive the number 1, and Alfvaen to receive the
> number 2. 

Since you have given us numbers are you refereeing this duel? You didn't
mention that you were, but I see no other reason why you should assign us
numbers.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:48:20 -0800
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Duel

The Gingham Wearer wrote:
> 
> > I am Alfvean's second in the duel against The Gingham Wearer. Alfvaen
> > has selected Ghost as the format of the duel. I have randomly selected
> > the gingham wearer to receive the number 1, and Alfvaen to receive the
> > number 2.
> 
> Since you have given us numbers are you refereeing this duel? You didn't
> mention that you were, but I see no other reason why you should assign us
> numbers.
> 
> The Gingham Wearer.

oops. I thought that the challenged's second was the default referee
now, but I guess I was wrong. in any case, I volunteer to referee if it
is legal for me to do so.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:58:23 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Anti-Voting Discussion

> Good point. The magic number will need changing. I'm not really sure what
> to. though. The way I look at it, winning almost exclusively by anti-voting
> is not all that likely, and certainly not a good thing if it ever did
> happen.

Cycle 2 was won by anti-voting.

> An additional problem with anti-voting is as follows. At the moment I could
> submit lots of grandiose proposals saying things like:

> These proposals would not pass. However Alfvaen could vote yes on all of
> them. If I submitted enough of them then Alfvaen would receive enough
> points to win. Alfvaen could then give me, say, A$50 for my troubles.

This scam has already been tried, but I believe few players picked up
on it at the time.  Consider this another trivia question :-)  I
remember /dev/joe and I discussing it on IRC, and trying to
conjure a way to manipulate and crash the bond market in response to
it.  Ah, the good ole days ... :)

For my two cents on anti-voting, by all means, eliminate it completely.
As for points, keep the magic number high.  Any point wins should be
a result of scams only, not flooding the proposal queue, simply because
you have more time than the next fellow to do so.  Many of my wins were
like that, and I guess it was really a matter of putting alot of time
in, not really anything worthy of winning a nomic game.  Writing the
proposals was reward in itself, but it sucks to see good proposals voted
down because of points and winning objectives, hence my recommendation
that proposals and winning become completely decoupled (or better yet,
whoever wins by points is the next promoter/tabulator -- that is a 
better idea ;-)).

Malenkai
hey, I'm not dead yet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:41:58 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 512 (Goldenmean)

This was not distributed as described in the rules 
the first time.  It has been assigned to Goldenmean
this time.

Clerk of the Courts
anxiously awaiting retirement :)
- ----------
From:  aaron shapiro
Sent:  Tuesday, January 13, 1998 2:10 AM
To:  'ak registrar'
Subject:  acka:CFJ

Statement:
Malenkai was unable to leave the game.

Reasoning:
Rule one states that "Those players who were members of Vulcan on August 
28, 1997 [/dev/joe, Malenkai, ThinMan, andVynd] are Evil Overlords of 
Ackanomic (retired)"
This I take as meaning they are always the only members of the Evil Overlords
Of Ackanomic (retired)(hereafter EOA).
The rule also states "No other players and no non-players are EvilOverlords of 
Ackanomic (retired). "
So malenkai must be a member of EOA, but as a non player cannot be a 
member of EOA.

So either malenkai was unable to leave, or the customary interpretation of rule
one must change.  As rule one states "The game state may not be altered in 
such a way as to cause the customary interpretation of this rule to be 
changed." The customary interpretation may not be changed and so malenkai was
unable to leave the game.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:50:24 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: more thread closure

I nominate myself, and thus become, Praetor in the
other thread.

I request admission in Vulcan (or whatever its name)
in that thread.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:37:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Anti-Voting Discussion

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Malenkai wrote:

> For my two cents on anti-voting, by all means, eliminate it completely.
> As for points, keep the magic number high.  Any point wins should be
> a result of scams only, not flooding the proposal queue, simply because
> you have more time than the next fellow to do so.  Many of my wins were
> like that, and I guess it was really a matter of putting alot of time
> in, not really anything worthy of winning a nomic game.  Writing the
> proposals was reward in itself, but it sucks to see good proposals voted
> down because of points and winning objectives, hence my recommendation
> that proposals and winning become completely decoupled (or better yet,
> whoever wins by points is the next promoter/tabulator -- that is a 
> better idea ;-)).
> 
> Malenkai
> hey, I'm not dead yet
> 

This, to me, reflects one of the fundamental differences people in this
game have.  I don't really agree with the view that points should only
exist for the purpose of scam wins.  I don't agree that submitting enough
proposals shouldn't count for something.  Lots of proposals are NOT
rewarding in and of themselves.  Don't tell me you ENJOYED writting those
massive renumbering monsters, Malenkai.  In my view, proposals are what
makes the game work, they are the action to the story that is this game.
I feel that there should always be a place for those who are doing what
makes the game interesting in the winners circle.  

Scams are one of those interesting things, yes, and there is certainly a
place for them among Cycle winners. I don't think they are the only thing
that deserves a win, however.  If we eliminate the non-scam point win,
then what non-scam wins are left?  A paradox win?  There hasn't been a
paradox win in more than a year.  Other than paradoxes and points, I would
say that all Cycle wins have come from something that could be called a
scam. If the agendas ever get off the ground, perhaps that would be
another viable method for those who aren't loophole surfing adepts.

I disagree with the idea that point wins, assuming the magic
number isn't very low (and I know that at times it has been), are somehow 
too cheap to deserve to be a win. Authors of many proposals are deserving
of a win if their proposals pass.  For a long time now there has been a
bias against the "mere" point win, a feeling that it is somehow unworthy
compared to scamming one's way to victory.  I don't see anything superior,
however, in scamming.  I've never actually heard an arguement as to why
scams are better than points.  Malenkai says that "flooding the proposal
queue" because you have lots of spare time is how you win by points, and
that it doesn't really deserve to be a win.  I ask, why not?  Not flooding
the proposal queue, obviously, no one would vote a bunch of complete junk
in, even with anti-voting.  But if you put a lot of time and effort into
writting good proposals, that people like and are willing to vote for,
then why not get a win for it?  What makes noticing some bizarre little
loophole in an ill-written rule that allows you to triple your score any
better than writting 20 odd worthwhile proposals?

I don't think there are any real answers to the questions I asked above.
Its a matter of opinion, Malenkai has his and I have mine.  But after
seeing and hearing for what seems like forever about how the point win is
bad, should be scrapped, etc, I just wanted to get up and throw in my
proverbial 2 bits.

                                    - Vynd

I'm still happy!

[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #465
*******************************