Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #455
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Saturday, January 10 1998      Volume 02 : Number 455

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:59:31 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2577

Since some players may not read acka-research, I am posting this on both
lists.
A couple of days ago I posted my opinion that Malenkai resigned from the
recent Ad Hoc Committee on principle. Malenkai corrected me on that point.
I take Malenkai at his word.

It is no longer my opinion that he resigned on principle.

Uri Bruck
aka
Niccolo Flychuck
and now for the rest of my reply:

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Malenkai wrote:

> > the 3 days s Gaol - I don't like this either, I never supported it, and
> > the way to get rid of this is by mending the rule rather than repealing
> > it. 
> 
> The fact that you don't like it does not make it less of a flaw.
> Indeed, it supports the veracity of my claim that the rule is flawed.
> Since its functionality is basically the same as hearings, the solution
> I chose to propose was to eliminate the poorer implementation, IMO,
> and put it up for vote.  Why to you say the proper way to write my
> proposals is what you want?  

No, I don't want you to write your proposals the way I want. In a previous
letter you wrote that if I want a discussion I should discuss the merits
and flaws of the proposal up for vote. That's what I'm doing. When I write
that the propor way to propose is, I am pointing out what I see as a flaw
in the proposal - I'm not telling you how to act.

> the voters do.  Take your case to the voters, not me.  My opinion 
> of the rule is already formed.  Your false statement spoke nothing 
> of the merits of the proposal.  It had no possible result but to
> inflame.

I thought you wanted to make this discussion civil. As a first step in
that direction I seperated the debate about the proposal from that other
discussion. I am discussing the merits of the proposal. You wrote that my
disagreeable statement had nothing to do with the proposal.

 > 
> > Furthermore, nowhere do you explain how Ad Hoc Committees are less
> > re-usable than Hearings.
> 
> That is because I did not claim that they were.
In the prolog to the proposal you write :"
Replace ad hoc with hearings, and remove all those problems, PLUS, its
replaced with a well-run, reuseable structure,
AND the size and complexity of the rules is reduced"

You want to replace Ad Hoc with a well-run,reuseable structure. In plain
English this means that they are not a well-run, reuseable structure.

>  I claimed that they were more complex, and they are.
You claim that as well

> > Your response to this was that I should back the accusations I make with
> > facts.
> > 
> > I got very ticked off by this, since I made no accusations, I was making
> > an observation, that I thought Malenkai chose to harf just one thread,
> 
> Like I said at the time, you should have asked me privately for
> clarification before making a public insinuation about my neutrality
And like I said at the time, and in my previous letter as well, I made no
insinuation, I made an observation, and I did not imply anywhere that your
choice was a bad one, or that you wrong to make that choice.

> as moderator.  You spend word after word telling me how to act, yet 
> do not once examine your own conduct.  Even a neutral party from another
> nomic observered that  your response was "paranoid" at the time.  Is
> e wrong too?
I will exercise academic integrity and not comment about a person who does
not read this forum.

> > And all this talk about OTHERS, other players, etc. It has no place here.
> 
> I have stated that other players have also observed this problem with
> your conduct.  It does have a place here.  A search of the archvies 
> for "482" will reveal them.
> 
> > I don't recall seeing this on the public forum. If anyoen feels that way,
> > they should this directly to me, either in public, or in private.
> 
> ThinMan wrote on December 8th:

Thank you for looking up the archives for me.
I guess I'll have to direct this question at ThiMan - do you want me to
leave Ackanomic?

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:19:51 -0800
From: Joshua Herreshoff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: $#!+

Not my kneecaps!!!!  I, um hereby support Malenkai for inductioninto the
Hall of Elders, he's been a great boon to the game in the
3 days I've been playing.  I don't know what I would have done
without him.  (Can I keep my kneecaps now?)  ;)

> I hereby support Malenkai for induction into the Hall of Elders.
>
> I also promise to break the kneecaps of any players who do not
> likewise voice their support. (Okay, not really.)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:34:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: acting speaker?

> With Malenkai's departure, we are with out a speaker.  Unless I am
> missing something, the acting speaker is the officer whose office
> was created by the lowest number rule.

Actually, I'm not sure. That process is usually only invoked when the
normal succession process fails.

However, the normal succession process is that the Clerk of the Court
becomes the Acting Speaker. I'm not sure if this means that the Acting
Clerk of the Court is the Acting Speaker, or if this means that it
failed.

(I am a little embarrassed to admit that I've always been somewhat
fuzzy on this whole issue, since Malenkai has been the Speaker ever
since I joined.)

In any case, the Office of Clerk of the Court is a Functional Office,
so President Alfvaen is currently the Acting Clerk of the Court. He
will need to announce a Nomination for that position. I may volunteer
if no one else does, but I would prefer to see someone else step up
and take on that Office. It's an important job.

The Speaker and the Praetor are Political Offices, and are currently
vacant. Whoever is the Acting Speaker will need to conduct a
Nomination for these postions.

Justices are not permitted to hold either of these Offices. I don't
think that that prevents me from holding them in an acting capacity,
but it might. Again, I'm not sure.

Right now, though, I need to go deal with the nomicbot before I
violate the "Speed" rule.

Until we get things settled down again, I would like it if people
would hold off on submitting more proposals unless it's something that
can't wait....

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:42:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Workload Distribution

> Malenkai, a selfless worker for Acka, has unfortunately left us.
> Is anyone willing to take up the burden of being Clerk of the Court?
> 
> I was wondering if people want to split this, and have two CotC's:
> Clerk Civil (who administers CFJs)
> Clerk Criminal (who administers CFCJs)

I don't think this would actually accomplish much. The number of CFCJs
we get are trivial in comparsion, so it would hardly save much work
for the "Clerk Civil" to not have to deal with them. Furthermore, the
two players would be doing essentially the same job, since there is
very little different between a CFJ and a CFCJ as far as the CotC is
concerned, so it makes sense for one person to handle them.

The Clerk of the Court is not really that busy of a job, I don't
think. Not like being the Promoter & Tabulator, anyway. It is a very
important position, though, and does require someone who can keep
track of deadlines.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:33:30 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Long

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Malenkai wrote:

> 1) Eliminate points and anti-voting.  I personally feel points for 
> proposals is passe, and anti-voting is unstimulating, uninteresting,
> and sometimes downright annoying.  I have trouble understanding how
> it is fun.  I guess that is why I observe that the game and my interests
> are diverging.  My view is not of a point-based or currency-based 
> "economy", but a power-based "economy".  The thing of value, besides
> fun, in a nomic game is the ability to change the game state.  That
> is what the "economy" should be based on.  I remember when a proposal
> was in the queue that changed the number of A$ from 75000 to 100000.
> Someome said, and I almost quote: "I oppose any attempt to create 
> currency out of thin air".  I just thought that was hilarious, and
> will leave it at that :-)

I think I made that statement, and yes, it was hilarious. Since the
concept of an economy in acka is absurd, any reference toit is bound to be
hilarious:)
OTOH, if we think of A$ as just another form of points, then it becomes a
much more manageable concept.

> 3) Simplify and de-scam the rules, especially that org stuff.
> One person orgs are simply ridiculous.  There is an old rule
Agreed. I commented about Slakko's RFC elsewhere.

> of security, and that is: Don't have something aroundthat is
> unnecessary; its only possible use then is for abuse.
> 

> 17) I suggest repealing the Senate.  Do you really need a government
> in a game? 
Yes for repealing, no for government.
I once thought that Acka would grow to a size where it needs a government
- - I think we all know now that this is unlikely to happen. Internomic
might be a better candidate for such an experiment, although I doubt it
would have a very big role there either. It's just a thought.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:28:11 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: mr cwm's jobs

Like TGW, I am also interested in harfing The Portrait Gallery and the
Hall of Elders.

I've updated the P.G. to deal with new players and players leaving.

View it at
http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/Gallery/gallery.html

There is a link from my main acka page (drop everything after Acka/)

Yours,
Slakko

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:52:12 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Offer

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > What price did you have in mind?
> > 
> > I'll trade you a Whamiol for A$75. (First offer)
> 
> That's very funny - that's the exact same price that the very first
> Whamiol was sold for. (And it went off for the very first time when I
> joined the game, btw.)
> 
> I could haggle, but - when you get right down to it, a Whamiol is
> really worth A$75. (Or it can be, anyway. No way to tell, really,
> until after the fact.) And the coincidence is too much to ignore. I
> accept your offer.

I publicly offer to trade a Whamiol to breadbox in return for A$75.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:27:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Long

> 6) I give my two Whamiols to Slakko, pending ack.  E seems overly
> concerned about eir point total.

I believe that this is the only action that requires an ack, which
Slakko has done. Malenkai is no longer a player.

> I remember when I started
> this game, March 18th 1996 (although the records will show Mar 20th,
> Mar 18th is correct);

I hate to be contrary, but Registrar chess piece face did in fact made
the announcement that Malenkai had joined the game on March 20th.

> soon after I tried to organize a political party to prevent those
> governmental structures.  Why does a game need government?  Anyone
> remember the name of that party?

I'm stumped. (Not that I was there to remember.)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:28:37 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: The Infrequent Ackan, Vol. 1 Issue 6

Volume 1, Issue 6
SPECIAL DELIVERY
January 10, 1998
In this issue:
1. Newsflash
The dates of January 9th and 10th will be forever etched in the mind of
Acka as the day the proposals went away.  Ackanomic has tragically lost
two of its greatest citizens, who passed away to become Undead within
hours of each other.  mr cwm and Malenkai had both lived in Acka for over
20 months, making them members of the earliest town planning councils, and
responsible for many of the amenities that you see in Acka today.  Right
up until their untimely demise they continued working to better Acka, and
in fact some of Malenkai's efforts are just now bearing fruit, even though
he is no longer around to see the results.
Grieving Ackans first responded by immediately calling for the likenesses
of both these great players to be entered into the Hall of Elders, as
befits such statespeople.  It is believed that the general clamour will
see both mr cwm and Malenkai elevated to Elder status.  This push is
interestingly as much a part of Ackan religious belief as it is in
recognition, for Ackans of course believe that players who die but are
declared Elder will live on, and that eir possessions will remain intact.
Those of us recent arrivals in Acka have not seen as much of these two
great players as we no doubt would have liked.  What harfiness there must
have been when these two were in their early days of mapping out what
would become modern Acka!  What new concepts must have been considered,
deliberated, conceived!  Alas we were too late to see that, but at least
we were not too late to see them at all.
It is the opinion of this paper that the best thing that Ackans can do now
is to continue the good works that Malenkai and mr cwm created, and ensure
that all eir work is not in vain.  Acka must continue, and continue on
with honour, with faith, with intelligence, and most importantly with
harf.
mr cwm, 27th February 1996 - 9th January 1998.  H.I.P.
Malenkai, 20th March 1996 - 10th January 1998.  H.I.P.

The Infrequent Ackan, first to you with Ackan news.
Copyright  Slakko, 10/1/98.
Check us out on the web, at
http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/infrequent.html 

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:28:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Offer

> I publicly offer to trade a Whamiol to breadbox in return for A$75.

I acknowledge and accept.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:57:30 -0800
From: Joshua Herreshoff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hello, Good-bye

I support this nomination as well

> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>
> >
> > I would like to thank mr cwm for the efforts e has put in over the years
> > in Acka.  I note that e was responsible for the introduction of the
> > PRESENT vote into Ackanomic, and that Ackanomic is much the better off for
> > it.
> >
> > I hereby nominate mr cwm to be inducted into the Hall of Elders.
> >
> > I support the nominee (that's 1 point!)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:09:53 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Long

> I shall propose that we enshrine Malenkai in the hall of Elders.

I too back Malenkai's inclusion in the Hall of Elders.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:59:30 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Otmza! Auction

I bid A$49 in the Auction for 1 Go Fish Otzma Card.

Yours,
Slakko

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:45:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Long

Niccolo responded to Malenkai's long message:
> > 17) I suggest repealing the Senate.  Do you really need a government
> > in a game? 
> Yes for repealing, no for government.
> I once thought that Acka would grow to a size where it needs a government
> - I think we all know now that this is unlikely to happen. 

I remember when the concept of Townships was being passed around -- with the
idea that Acka might one day have so many players that we could have several
separate towns, each of them having their own rules, but also governed by
the main ruleset.  Time has shown that Acka won't sustain more than about
30 players for any length of time, due to players leaving because real life
gets in the way, because they can't keep up with the actions of so many
players, or because Acka has moved away from the style of play they enjoy.

In a way, Internomic has established the Townships concept that Acka
couldn't organize within itself -- but with Acka as one of the towns.
Many of those players who have left Acka have joined other nomics more
to their liking, or started new ones -- Pumpkin Patch, PNomic, Rishonomic,
EcoNomic, NeoNomic, AutoNomic, Imperial Nomic, and others, though not all
these nomics joined InterNomic.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:52:24 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Long

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Niccolo responded to Malenkai's long message:
> > > 17) I suggest repealing the Senate.  Do you really need a government
> > > in a game? 
> > Yes for repealing, no for government.
> > I once thought that Acka would grow to a size where it needs a government
> > - I think we all know now that this is unlikely to happen. 
> 
> I remember when the concept of Townships was being passed around -- with the
> idea that Acka might one day have so many players that we could have several
> separate towns, each of them having their own rules, but also governed by
> the main ruleset.  Time has shown that Acka won't sustain more than about
> 30 players for any length of time, due to players leaving because real life
> gets in the way, because they can't keep up with the actions of so many
> players, or because Acka has moved away from the style of play they enjoy.

If the main body of Ackan rules is kept small enough, I don't see why we
shouldn't eventually be able to maintain townships.  If the main set of
rules is kept free flowing, then townships could represent distinct styles
of play, leading people to move around towns rather than leave the game
when they want the "game" to move in a direction that other people don't
want it to.

Of course, before we could even consider this we'd need to have over 30
people active for a length of time.  I can't see this happening unless we
get a boatload of otherNomic refugees.

Actually, that reminds me.  MacroNomic seems to be downright moribund.
Perhaps we should investigate the possibility of any old members from
Macro setting up shop in Acka?

> In a way, Internomic has established the Townships concept that Acka
> couldn't organize within itself -- but with Acka as one of the towns.
> Many of those players who have left Acka have joined other nomics more
> to their liking, or started new ones -- Pumpkin Patch, PNomic, Rishonomic,
> EcoNomic, NeoNomic, AutoNomic, Imperial Nomic, and others, though not all
> these nomics joined InterNomic.

This is one way to see it, although InterNomic is far too unstructured to
really count as a set of townships.  The interaction between nomics is
still pretty much nonexistent when we exclude Internomic proposals and
judgements - objects aren't getting passed around.  This kind of
intercommunity commerce is really easier when the subgames are developed
out of the main ruleset, rather than when a number of games decide on a
new meta-ruleset.  That's probably just thermodynamics :-).

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:14:04 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma Card Bidding

I bid A$55 on the Fowl Foul Otzma lot.

                                     - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:17:05 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Orgs RFCs, 1st simple fix

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> 
> Aim of this proposal: Eliminate single player orgs.
> 
> Amend R1003 as follows:

I think that everything in this RFC is good.  If I were writing it, I
might add a section that explicitly says that Groupings can't own
anything, but I tend to be somewhat paranoid (even for an Ackan).

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:11:40 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: $#!+

>I hereby support Malenkai for induction into the Hall of Elders.
	Me too.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	"For there never was yey philosopher
	That could endure the toothache patiently"
	-William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, act 5, scene 1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:24:00 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Communications problem(Slakko)

	I'm having the problem with that address as well.  The message I
get it:
<<< 550 rejected: administrative prohibition
550 <[email-masked]>... User unknown

Does anyone who knows SMTP better than me have any idea what's happening?

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	"For there never was yey philosopher
	That could endure the toothache patiently"
	-William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, act 5, scene 1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:25:03 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Orgs RFCs, 1st simple fix

>I think that everything in this RFC is good.  If I were writing it, I
>might add a section that explicitly says that Groupings can't own
>anything, but I tend to be somewhat paranoid (even for an Ackan).
	I agree that Groupings shouldn't own anything.  As Malenkai said,
anything without a purpose can only be abused.  However I'd rather see a
total overhaul than minor changes.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	"For there never was yey philosopher
	That could endure the toothache patiently"
	-William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, act 5, scene 1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:44:48 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: mr cwm's jobs

> Like TGW, I am also interested in harfing The Portrait Gallery and the
> Hall of Elders.
> 
> I've updated the P.G. to deal with new players and players leaving.
> 
> View it at
> http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/Gallery/gallery.html
> 
> There is a link from my main acka page (drop everything after Acka/)

You call that a portrait gallery? That's one of the weakest portrait
galleries I've ever seen! Riddled with mistakes, missing a picture and
failing to get alphabetical order right! Look at my page at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Battlefield/8814/gallery.htm or my
version of the hall of elders at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Battlefield/8814/elders.htm

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:48:23 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: acting speaker?

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > With Malenkai's departure, we are with out a speaker.  Unless I am
> > missing something, the acting speaker is the officer whose office
> > was created by the lowest number rule.
> 
> Actually, I'm not sure. That process is usually only invoked when the
> normal succession process fails.
> 
> However, the normal succession process is that the Clerk of the Court
> becomes the Acting Speaker. I'm not sure if this means that the Acting
> Clerk of the Court is the Acting Speaker, or if this means that it
> failed.
> 
> (I am a little embarrassed to admit that I've always been somewhat
> fuzzy on this whole issue, since Malenkai has been the Speaker ever
> since I joined.)

I think breadbox is correct that the Acting Clerk of the Court, Alfvaen,
is also Acting Speaker.  I don't know if this is really a good thing, I
mean if the President was on vacation for a few days some poor guy who
offered to hold his place for a few days could end up harfing almost the
entire game.  Once things have smoothed over, I will propose a limit on
this sort of thing.

> In any case, the Office of Clerk of the Court is a Functional Office,
> so President Alfvaen is currently the Acting Clerk of the Court. He
> will need to announce a Nomination for that position. I may volunteer
> if no one else does, but I would prefer to see someone else step up
> and take on that Office. It's an important job.
> 
> The Speaker and the Praetor are Political Offices, and are currently
> vacant. Whoever is the Acting Speaker will need to conduct a
> Nomination for these postions.

I am willing to take on the duties of the Clerk of the Court, but someone
with more time and well, a stronger work ethic, shall we say, might be a
better choice.

> 
> Until we get things settled down again, I would like it if people
> would hold off on submitting more proposals unless it's something that
> can't wait....
> 
> breadbox
> 

I'll try, but I have one change in mind that it might not be better to
wait on.

                                    - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:22:01 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: proposal

#submit proposal Spreading it around

{{[I see no particular reason that the Speaker should have to be the
Officer in Charge of Random Things, this creates a new Functional Office
to take over that duty.  I am not appointing myself Dice-Harfer, since
I don't know how to use the dice server, but I am willing to do it if
someone can explain how to use that key piece of equipment to me.]}}

Create a new Rule titled Dice-Harfer, numbered 435, with the following $$$
delimited text.

$$$
The functional office of Dice-Harfer exists, it has one seat.  The
following are the duties of the Dice-Harfer:

$$$

Amend Rule 435 by copying the text of both paragraphs of Rule 405, section
(vi), into Rule 435, adding them to the end of Rule as seperate
paragraphs.  Then delete said text from Rule 405.

Amend Rule 405 by replacing the first occurance of vii with vi {{[there
are actually two section 7s right now, so no more renumbering is
necessary]}}

Amend Rule 435 by replacing Speaker with Dice-Harfer, and by deleting the
first occurance of: (vi)

#end proposal

#sorry

#thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:25:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: proposal

Doh, meant to send this straight to breadbox.  OK, this wasn't a
submission, it was an RFC.  Yeah, thats the ticket, an RFC.  So um, what
do ya'll think?

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> #submit proposal Spreading it around
> 
> {{[I see no particular reason that the Speaker should have to be the
> Officer in Charge of Random Things, this creates a new Functional Office
> to take over that duty.  I am not appointing myself Dice-Harfer, since
> I don't know how to use the dice server, but I am willing to do it if
> someone can explain how to use that key piece of equipment to me.]}}
> 
> Create a new Rule titled Dice-Harfer, numbered 435, with the following $$$
> delimited text.
> 
> $$$
> The functional office of Dice-Harfer exists, it has one seat.  The
> following are the duties of the Dice-Harfer:
> 
> $$$
> 
> Amend Rule 435 by copying the text of both paragraphs of Rule 405, section
> (vi), into Rule 435, adding them to the end of Rule as seperate
> paragraphs.  Then delete said text from Rule 405.
> 
> Amend Rule 405 by replacing the first occurance of vii with vi {{[there
> are actually two section 7s right now, so no more renumbering is
> necessary]}}
> 
> Amend Rule 435 by replacing Speaker with Dice-Harfer, and by deleting the
> first occurance of: (vi)
> 
> #end proposal
> 
> #sorry
> 
> #thanks
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:33:19 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: mr cwm's jobs

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, The Gingham Wearer wrote:

> > View it at
> > http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/Gallery/gallery.html
> > 
> > There is a link from my main acka page (drop everything after Acka/)
> 
> You call that a portrait gallery? That's one of the weakest portrait
> galleries I've ever seen! Riddled with mistakes, missing a picture and
> failing to get alphabetical order right! 

Dear Esteemed Colleague,

Which of our portrait galleries are you discussing?  Mine, which happens
to have all current players listed as current players, or yours, which
appears o'er hasty to have Icy players listed as former?

And how can you sit there in your gray, dull, lifeless page and call it a
vibrant addition to Acka?  Your lack of aesthetic appeal does you no
credit, and nor does your taste in squashing poor dear departed mr cwm's
picture into a jagged caricature of a caricature.

If I were looking at that page, then Mr Flibble would be very cross.
- --
Duncan "and you're telling me you're completely sane?" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:40:42 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: proposal

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> Doh, meant to send this straight to breadbox.  OK, this wasn't a
> submission, it was an RFC.  Yeah, thats the ticket, an RFC.  So um, what
> do ya'll think?

Well, what with the large number of offices currently filled,
and the lack of any need to perform the duties of an Optional Office when
it is vacant, the Speaker's role as officer of last resort isn't all that
busy.  I think that eir role as OiCoRT (or Dice Harfer) is the main job
they have, and so there isn't really any need to hive it off.

However, if this were done, then I would also suggest that you reduce the
Speaker's salary back to A$25, and give the Dice Harfer a standard A$25
salary as well.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:52:14 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma Card Bidding

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> I bid A$55 on the Fowl Foul Otzma lot.

Ummm, you already had.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:27:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Communications problem(Slakko)

> 	I'm having the problem with that address as well.  The message I
> get it:
> <<< 550 rejected: administrative prohibition
> 550 <[email-masked]>... User unknown
> 
> Does anyone who knows SMTP better than me have any idea what's happening?

The "administrative prohibition" probably means that his site is
rejecting mail from your domain...

> 	<[email-masked]>

Earthlink became well known due to the large amounts of "spam" -- junk
e-mail -- which originated from some of their accounts, and the refusal
of their admins to do anything about it.  Unfortunately, unlike some of
the other spam spewers like cyberpromo.com, earthlink also has normal
users, who sometimes find themselves in exactly this situation.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:39:45 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Auction Results

All 8 Otzma Card Auctions that I initiated are completed at this time.

The results are:

(Cards, Top Bid, Winner).

3 Share Your Income	A$165	K 2
2 Foul Fowl	A$55	Vynd
2 Grave Robber	A$80	Rex Mundi
1 Skeleton Key	A$39	K 2
1 Scientist for a Day	A$110	Fortunato
1 Go Fish	A$49	Slakko
1 Paratroop	A$50	Niccolo Flychuck
1 TruthSeeker	A$30	Fortunato

Happy otzmaing

#transfer K 2,Treasury A$204: Otzma Auction
#transfer Vynd,Treasury A$55: Otzma Auction
#transfer Rex Mundi,Treasury A$80: Otzma Auction
#transfer Fortunato,Treasury A$140: Otzma Auction
#transfer Slakko,Treasury A$49: Otzma Auction
#transfer Niccolo Flychuck,Treasury A$50: Otzma Auction

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:38:30 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Elders

I support the nominations of Malenkai and mr cwm to the Hall of Elders.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:11:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: proposal

>> 
>> Doh, meant to send this straight to breadbox.  OK, this wasn't a
>> submission, it was an RFC.  Yeah, thats the ticket, an RFC.  So um, what
>> do ya'll think?
> 
> Well, what with the large number of offices currently filled,
> and the lack of any need to perform the duties of an Optional Office when
> it is vacant, the Speaker's role as officer of last resort isn't all that
> busy.  I think that eir role as OiCoRT (or Dice Harfer) is the main job
> they have, and so there isn't really any need to hive it off.

Is this really true? The fact is that the Speaker is in charge of
harfing everything that isn't already assigned to someone else. I
honestly am not sure how much work this currently entails.

In any case, it might be better to make the Speaker the default OiCRT,
but allow the possibility of having someone else fill that office.

Oh yeah, and I would also really prefer to keep the title Officer in
Charge of Random Things.

By the way, the Dice Server is very easy to use. You just send it an
email. The full instructions are in Rule 1250.3.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:27:25 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: mr cwm's jobs

> Which of our portrait galleries are you discussing?  Mine, which happens
> to have all current players listed as current players, or yours, which
> appears o'er hasty to have Icy players listed as former?

I apologize for this. It was a simple understandable mistake made by having
very little time available to go online today. Your laughable hall of
Elders is something for which there is no excuse however. You still have
several of these great Acka citizens (may they rest in peace) as owning
things that no longer exist. Such sloppiness would have them turning in
their graves, and could tear apart the foundations of Acka :-)

> And how can you sit there in your gray, dull, lifeless page and call it a
> vibrant addition to Acka?  Your lack of aesthetic appeal does you no
> credit, and nor does your taste in squashing poor dear departed mr cwm's
> picture into a jagged caricature of a caricature.

My gallery is functional. Snazzy backgrounds only detract from the true
purpose, as does having links to personal organizations such as Newspapers.
This is clearly an attempt at personal gain. As for mr cwm, I like to treat
all players equally, providing each with the same amount of space. If and
when he becomes an elder I shall review this process.

> If I were looking at that page, then Mr Flibble would be very cross.

It's funny you should mention that. That would have been my name if someone
on the Red Dwarf mailing list of which I am a member hadn't already taken
it. You now know the origin of my name (interestingly enough the same as a
player who died at about the same time I joined the game).

The Gingham Wearer, expecting most Ackans are thoroughly confused by the
last paragraph.

PS as I mentioned, I had very little access to the net today so the
treasure page has not been done. I sorely hope to get it done tomorrow.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:41:22 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Results

> 2 Grave Robber	A$80	Rex Mundi

I play 1 of my Grave Robber cards on Chaos, hoping for /dev/joe's legacy.
;-)

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:54:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Let's slow down a bit

I have a few bounce messages in my Postmaster's inbox from
telusplanet.net, Alfvaen's address. The messages that bounced date
from two days ago.

This may be a brief, transitory situation. Then again it may not. In
any case, it is entirely possible that Alfvaen, our President,
Financier, and Scorekeeper, does not currently know that he has become
the Acting Speaker.

If the bounce messages continue, I will consider taking action. In the
meantime, however, we should probably try to keep our game actions to
a minimum, so that Alfvaen does not find himself up to his ears in
backlog when he returns.

breadbox
don't panic
not yet anyway

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:11:03 -0800
From: aaron shapiro <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Orgs RFCs, 1st simple fix

Maybe make it one week or anytime after that that someone points it out??
Something along these lines so no one person is stuck keeping track of
Failed groupings.

- ----------
From:  Uri Bruck
Sent:  Saturday, January 10, 1998 4:24 AM
To:  acka-research
Subject:  Re: Acka: Orgs RFCs, 1st simple fix

Section 1 seems fine at first look. I'll have to compare it to the current
rule for more commentary. Section 2 seems to call for a lot of tracking,
although I can't make up my mind which would be more tracking, as you
propose, or by letting Groupings go on like orgs  do now.

Another thing I am missing here handling current single -player Orgs. I
don't think they should los their property when such a proposal passes,
and any proposal to eliminate single player orgs should also explicitly
transfer the property of the org to the respective members, and refund
them for any Organizational Powers they may own.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> Aim of this proposal: Eliminate single player orgs.
> 
> Amend R1003 as follows:
> 
> Section 1 becomes the following:
> 
> 1. Forming an Organization 
> Any Player may form a new Grouping by announcing its name publicly.
> (Its name must be a legal name.) When this happens, that Player becomes
> the Founder of the new Grouping and its only member.  The only action a
> Grouping can perform is to admit new members.  It does so by unanimous
> public vote of all existing members being in favour.
> When a Grouping has 3 members, it becomes a Player-sanctioned Organization. 
> The Founder of the Grouping becomes the Founder of the Organization.
> 
> Alternatively, an Organization may be created and defined by other Rules.
> Such Organizations are called Rule-sanctioned Organizations. A
> Rule-sanctioned Organization does not necessarily have a Founder. 
> Any player may request membership in an Organization. The Organization may
> then grant the request as a public action. When a request for membership
> is granted, the player becomes a member of the Organization. 
> A player-sanctioned Organization may, as a public action, give a
> particular member the ability to grant any request for membership in that
> Organization, without waiting around for the consent of the rest of the
> members. A player-sanctioned Organization may also, as a public action,
> establish an open admissions policy, which means that anyone can join that
> Organization at any time. 
> 
> Section 2 becomes the following:
> 
> 2. Organization Disbandment 
> A Grouping isdisbanded if it has existed for more than 7 days.
> A Player-sanctioned Organization is disbanded upon it having 1 or
> fewer members.
> [3 needed to form it, but 2 needed to keep it alive.]
> 
> The rules may call for the disbandment of an Organization. Whenan
> Organization or Grouping is disbanded, everything owned by the
> Organization or Grouping is transferred to the Treasury, and the
> Organization or Grouping is then no more. 
> 
> Comments anyone?
> 
> --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #455
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