Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #443
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Friday, January 2 1998        Volume 02 : Number 443

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:31:19 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Name change (again)

> I change my name back to "The Gingham Wearer".

Acked.  And yes, I realized this wouldn't last for long, but I just
felt like changing all the web pages to accord with "No other players"
because I was bored.  Now let's hope I feel like changing it back.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pink Floyd:The Wall
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
I browse, you browse, we all browse for eyebrows!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:14:10 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Rule 257

The following players are awol, and did not respond to a
rule 257 query.  They are placed on vacation.

Calvin N Hobbes
Michael Wren
Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 00:37:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Rule 257

>The following players are awol, and did not respond to a
>rule 257 query.  They are placed on vacation.
>
>Calvin N Hobbes
>Michael Wren
>Robert Sevin

Returning from vacation. I note that I did not receive a query that I can find.

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:03:00 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: GAD Round of the Spider Woman

My apologies for taking so long in posting this round, but things have
been busy and this Round was actually difficult to harf.  

ThinMan grabbed two-star's Donkey.

Both two-star and Fortunato attempted to grab ThinMan's Donkey.

Fortunato sent me his play (about 10 minutes) before he returned from
vacation, so I think it fails.  This avoids the sticky situation of who
would have gotten the Lamb that led to CFJ 364, which never did get a
verdict in its jury trial (the only jury trial?).

Since two-star was the only one who legaly tried to grab ThinMan's Donkey,
and ThinMan had the little Lamb, two-star grabs the Lamb (again!).  It is
possible that this leads to some sort of infinite loop, with ThinMan
grabbing it back instead of getting two-star's Donkey, but I don't think
that happened.  I do note that, if CFJ 320 is still pertinent, then
ThinMan and two-star are both currently in "possession" of the little
Lamb.

So, my take on the situation is that two-star grabbed the Lamb.  ThinMan
grabbed two-star's Donkey, thereby eliminating him.  As there are only two
players remaining in on the GAL, Fortunato and ThinMan are now playing a
game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.  See Rule 1213 for details.  Get your plays
in soon boys, cuz this one is for all the marbles.  Alternatively, submit
your CFJs to Malenkai in an orderly manner...

> 
> > > 
> > > GAL:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Fortunato
> > > > ThinMan
> > > > 
> > > > Scores:
> > > > 
> > > > Crackfoo   1 (eliminated)
> > > > mr cwm     2 (eliminated)
> > > > Red Barn   1 (eliminated)
> > > > ThinMan    4
> > > > breadbox   1 (eliminated)
> > > > Rex Mundi  3 (eliminated)
> > > > /dev/joe   3 (eliminated)
> > > > Fortunato  3
> > > > two-star   1 (eliminated)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:04:17 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Rule 257

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Thierry Joffrain wrote:

> >The following players are awol, and did not respond to a
> >rule 257 query.  They are placed on vacation.
> >
> >Calvin N Hobbes
> >Michael Wren
> >Robert Sevin
> 
> Returning from vacation. I note that I did not receive a query that I can find.
> 
> CnH
> 
> 

I'm glad to hear you're still with us, but I think you're stuck on
vacation for the minimum of 2 days.

                         - Vynd (rather quiet himself lately)

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:12:57 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Sneaking in under the wire

I had almost forgotten to mention it, but Proposal 2548 is harfy.  Please
um, pay no attention to this fact, as per the usual.

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:56:20 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 485 Appeal Verdict

> FALSE has been upheld on CFJ 485

> Statement:

> A Judge delivering a verdict of TRUE on a CFCJ whose statement was "Slakko
> has committed a Crime" is a player action affecting the game
>       state which appears equally legal and illegal.

> Slakko's Reasoning:

> Liar's Paradox.  Neither true nor false implies false implies true implies
> false implies true....

> This is a Paradox Win CFJ.

Does Slakko get the Goose?  And if not, why not?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Fluke:Risotto
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
If you are what you eat, then I'm dead meat.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:32:34 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Destruction

I hereby destroy the following trinkets for cash:

a pin
Mr. Spocks #2
Molly Parrot

That should get me a whopping A$36...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Fluke:Risotto
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
Be sure to evaluate the bird-hand/bush ratio.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:40:31 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Transitions

At Jan 1, 00:00 Ackatime, else...if, who I believe left with an
Expected Date of Return of December 31st, and who I also believe
not to have returned yet, went On Ice.

At Dec 31, 00:00 Ackatime, norpan had been On Ice for 60 consecutive
days(since the end of October), and was thus removed from the game
and became Undead.

At Jan 1, 18:59 Ackatime, Whiz, who had been Undead for 90 days,
decomposed.

There's some sort of neat conservation at work here, isn't there?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Fluke:Risotto
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
Vanilla so potent you could find it in the dark.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:43:51 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: GAD Round of the Spider Woman

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Fortunato sent me his play (about 10 minutes) before he returned
> > from vacation, so I think it fails.  This avoids the sticky
> > situation of who would have gotten the Lamb that led to CFJ 364,
> > which never did get a verdict in its jury trial (the only jury
> > trial?).
> 
> Please note that although CFJ 364 was never decided, the issue that
> CFJ 364 addressed was, by the later CFJ 376.
> 
> breadbox
> 

Ah, I see that I searched, but did not search far enough.  I remembered
the infamous Grab-A-Donkey CFj that stumped even the Supreme Court, and
displayed the inadequacy of judgement by (a group) of one's peers, but not
that there had been another CFJ.  I am even more shamed that it was a CFJ
submited while you were named Xebra bod, because for some reason I find
that name ridiculously funny and I normally cherish its memory.

In any event, CFJ 376 makes it fairly clear that two-star grabbed the
Lamb, and ThinMan did not immediately grab it back from him, so don't
bother with any more CFJs on that account.  In the unlikely but not, I
fear, impossible circumstance that Fortunato's play went through, I
believe a random determination would be necessary to determine who has
grabbed the Lamb, but this shouldn't actually effect further GAD play.

                             - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 00:35:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 485 Appeal Verdict

>> Statement:
>> 
>> A Judge delivering a verdict of TRUE on a CFCJ whose statement was "Slakko
>> has committed a Crime" is a player action affecting the game
>>       state which appears equally legal and illegal.
> 
> Does Slakko get the Goose?  And if not, why not?

Rule 601:

> A call for judgement whose statement alleges that further play is
> impossible, that changing the rules is impossible, or that a player
> action which would affect the game state appears equally legal and
> illegal is a "Paradox Win CFJ."

Thus the Chartreuse Goose returns. (Been a while, hasn't it?)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:21:01 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Gift

Since it didn't work the last time, I once again give The Scarlet 'G' to
The Gingham Wearer.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:23:34 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2556

> Proposal 2556
> Harfer Fee

I retract this proposal.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:38:35 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 484 Verdict

CFJ 484 has been judged FALSE.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgment 484
  Subject: Trinkets
Initiator: Malenkai
Submitted: 97-12-11 9:09
    Judge: Calvin N Hobbes (deadbeat)
2nd Judge: Balsamic Dragon (deadbeat)
3rd Judge: Niccolo Flychuck (deadbeat)
4th Judge: Vynd (selected 97-12-28 20:22)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

Trinkets with a value of negative A$ may not be created.

Malenkai's Reasoning:

I'll write even less for Slakko to critique this time :)

I don't know, a couple people have argued that it was not
possible, we should at least find out.

Vynd's Reasoning:

I am returning a verdict of FALSE.  My reasoning is that I think its the
right verdict, and because I'm so busy right now that I'm wishing I never
accepted this thing.  This is, of course, in accordance with the rules as
they existed on December 11th, and not the current game state.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:41:03 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Destruction

> I hereby destroy the following trinkets for cash:
> 
> a pin
> Mr. Spocks #2
> Molly Parrot
> 
> That should get me a whopping A$36...
> 
> 
> --
> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--Fluke:Risotto
> Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
> Be sure to evaluate the bird-hand/bush ratio.
> 

You destroyed Molly Parrot?!?!

You heartless fiend!

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:45:32 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: RFC

Unlike some other players, I do like the idea that points be usable as a
sort of currency.  I do not want them as an _extra_ currency, however, but
rather as a replacement for A$, and possibly for swingpoints as well.  Also,
as other players have pointed out, some of the conversion values suggested
in the RFC are pretty far out of whack.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 14:20:11 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 507 (/dev/joe)

CFJ 507 has been assigned to /dev/joe

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgment 507
  Subject: Church Existance
Initiator: ThinMan
Submitted: 98-01-02 09:07
    Judge: /dev/joe (selected 98-01-02 14:20)
Judgement:

Statement:

No Ackanomic Church named The Church of Odo on the Wormhole exists.

ThinMan's Reasoning:

I don't know whether the statement is correct or not.  As Balsamic Dragon
pointed out, proposal 2545 attempted to destroy a class of Nomics (for the
purposes of Ackanomic).  As she also pointed out, The Church of Odo on the
Wormhole may have been a member of that class, as evidenced by the fact
that it was a non-voting member of Internomic at the time of P2545's
passage.  TCoOotW  thus claims, at least to Internomic, to be a Nomic.
That is not necessarilly sufficient, however, for tCoOotW to qualify as a
nomic under the rules of Ackanomic.  It is also not necessarilly the case
that the Internomic non-voting member tCoOotW is/was, under the rules of
Ackanomic, the same as the Ackanomic Church of the same name.  There may
be other issues surrounding this question that cast doubt on the veracity
of the CFJ statement.  It is too interesting a question, however, for me
to let it slip by via the statute of limitations.

As an aside: it is important to keep in mind that this CFJ determines the
correct Game State for Ackanomic only; Internomic's (or any other Nomic's)
perspective on the continued existence of tCoOotW is irrelevant.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:21:17 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 485 Appeal Verdict

> > Does Slakko get the Goose?  And if not, why not?

> > A call for judgement whose statement alleges that further play is
> > impossible, that changing the rules is impossible, or that a player
> > action which would affect the game state appears equally legal and
> > illegal is a "Paradox Win CFJ."

> Thus the Chartreuse Goose returns. (Been a while, hasn't it?)

Actually, it looks like it returned back when the original verdict of
FALSE was returned, which was on December 12th.  Still, yes, it's been
Somewhere Else since Guy Fawkes left in September...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In The Other Room--Dalbello:Black On Black
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
Full fathom five thy father lies.  I pushed him.  I apologize.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:22:08 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Gift

> Since it didn't work the last time, I once again give The Scarlet 'G' to
> The Gingham Wearer.

I believe that it was the entire creation process that did not occur,
because it was posted on acka-research, not because you specified the
name of a player who had another name at the time...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In The Other Room--Dalbello:Black On Black
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
We promptly judged antique ivory buckles for the next prize.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:29:19 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 485 Appeal Verdict

> > Thus the Chartreuse Goose returns. (Been a while, hasn't it?)
> 
> Actually, it looks like it returned back when the original verdict of
> FALSE was returned, which was on December 12th.  Still, yes, it's been
> Somewhere Else since Guy Fawkes left in September...

I have a hunch that it will take a little stroll when CFJ 503 comes
back :-)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:11:58 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nomics(Proposal 2545)

> Well, I do not believe the beldin's pants rule does anything, as no one
> has any Parkas.  Previously, people had received *the Parka*, which
> was actually a trinket, but no one has received *any Parkas*, AFAIK.
> 
> Malenkai

#transfer RexBank, Rex Mundi: 3 A$.

I hereby create a trinket, value 1 A$, entitled: any parka.
This looks almost identical to one of Rex's Parkas, but smells slightly
different.

I next create a trinket, value 1 A$, called: Harfer Fee.
This trinket is rather nondescript, except that it seems to have a slight
air of resignation.

I then create another trinket, value 1 A$, called: Harfer Fee, if it
exists.
This is also rather nondescript, in fact, even more so than Harfer Fee.

I form an organization called: the standard Harfer Fee.

I give "Harfer Fee" and "Harfer Fee, if it exists" to Malenkai.

I proxy my support to the standard Harfer Fee, and then suggest that it
have an open admissions policy; thus, it happens.

I then give any parka to RexBank.

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:08:28 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Nomics(Proposal 2545)

Rex Mundi wrote:

> I proxy my support to the standard Harfer Fee, and then suggest that it
> have an open admissions policy; thus, it happens.

What the hey! I join the standard Harfer Fee. I also proxy my support to
this organization. Don't ask me why I do this, I just do.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:32:14 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 507 (/dev/joe)

> No Ackanomic Church named The Church of Odo on the Wormhole exists.
> 
> ThinMan's Reasoning:
> 
> I don't know whether the statement is correct or not.  As Balsamic Dragon
> pointed out, proposal 2545 attempted to destroy a class of Nomics (for
the
> purposes of Ackanomic).  As she also pointed out, The Church of Odo on
the
> Wormhole may have been a member of that class, as evidenced by the fact
> that it was a non-voting member of Internomic at the time of P2545's
> passage.  TCoOotW  thus claims, at least to Internomic, to be a Nomic.
> That is not necessarilly sufficient, however, for tCoOotW to qualify as a
> nomic under the rules of Ackanomic.  It is also not necessarilly the case
> that the Internomic non-voting member tCoOotW is/was, under the rules of
> Ackanomic, the same as the Ackanomic Church of the same name.  There may
> be other issues surrounding this question that cast doubt on the veracity
> of the CFJ statement.  It is too interesting a question, however, for me
> to let it slip by via the statute of limitations.
> 
> As an aside: it is important to keep in mind that this CFJ determines the
> correct Game State for Ackanomic only; Internomic's (or any other
Nomic's)
> perspective on the continued existence of tCoOotW is irrelevant.

Two things that I think are relevant to this (but probably aren't):

1) Are nomics or Internomic defined anywhere in the rules. How is it
possible to determine what is a member nomic of internomic if these words
aren't defined?

2) As to determining if the none voting member of Internomic tCoOotW is the
same as the Ackanomic church tCoOotW. Why not get Balsamic Dragon to
request some info about the members of the nomic, when it was formed, etc.
I get an uncanny feeling that the info we get back might be fairly similar
to the Acka church, which would suggest that they are the same thing.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:52:55 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Named Nomics

I actually had originally put a clause into my Proposal that would
have explicitly said that the nomics were named after the corresponding
nomics in Internomic, but I found the phrasing confusing.  I decided
that if they "corresponded" to the other nomics, that would include names
as well.  I gather most people think this was not explicit enough?  If
so, I might still submit it to a CFJ, but I don't feel particularly like
trying to submit another fix Proposal; I'll leave that for someone else
who wants Nomics to be entities with actual names.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Blondie:Eat To The Beat
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
Are your hands turned ON now?  --billbill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:58:17 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Destruction

> > I hereby destroy the following trinkets for cash:

> > Molly Parrot

> You destroyed Molly Parrot?!?!

> You heartless fiend!

I take it you're representing the Arts and Antiquities communities
in this matter?  Sorry, I'm just feeling poor right now, but can't
bring myself to destroy the Trinket of Near-Infinite Possibilities.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Blondie:Eat To The Beat
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
"Pepsi brings your ancestors back from the grave."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:12:40 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Spelling Bee

Here's another flight of the Spelling Bee...

   In the Rules:

In Rule 213, "Delivering Judgement":
In "considered and deadbeat", "and" -> "a"

In Rule 258, "Undead":
"entites" -> "entities"; "ows" -> "owns"

In Rule 340, "Conventions":
"denomonator" -> "denominator"

In Rule 360, "Hearings":
"effeciency" -> "efficiency"

In Rule 362, "Crisis Resolution":
"repsonses" -> "responses"

In Rule 407.1, "Rule-Harfer":
"seperate" -> "separate"

In Rule 419.2, "Internomic Interface":
"annote" -> "annotate"

In Rule 419.3, "How are Things Out There":
"Liasion" -> "Liaison" (twice)

In Rule 430, "Spelling Exchequer":
"Miscellanous" -> "Miscellaneous" (multiple times)
"necesary" -> "necessary"

In Rule 431, "Office of the Illuminatus":
"distrubute" -> "distribute"
"occured" -> "occurred"
"distruted" -> "distributed"
"priviledge" -> "privilege"
"acheives" -> "achieves"

In Rule 506, "Trinkets":
"tranform" -> "transform"
"intial" -> "initial"

In Rule 594.4, "Blueprint: Vending Machine":
"preceeding" -> "preceding"

In Rule 594.20, "Blueprint: BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment":
"Convienently" -> "Conveniently"
"detatch" -> "detach"

In Rule 701, "Crime":
In "the illegally or impossibility", "illegally" -> "illegality"

In Rule 705, "The Caped Crusader":
"begining" -> "beginning"

In Rule 709, "Gaol":
Add a period to sections 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6.

In Rule 841, "Towers":
"positiver" -> "positive"

In Rule 910, "Ackanomicon":
"possesion" -> "possession"
"Chartruse" -> "Chartreuse"

In Rule 931, "Garments, Especially Hats":
"refered" -> "referred"
"headware" -> "headwear"

In Rule 1003, "Organizations":
"elligible" -> "eligible"
"restults" -> "results"
"anounced" -> "announced"
"consdered" -> "considered"
"Uniquie" -> "Unique"
"memberhsip" -> "membership"

In Rule 1230.2, "Swingers Like to Play Around II - Let's Play":
"anouncing" -> "announcing"
"anounces" -> "announces"
"anouncement" -> "announcement" (twice)
"chrnological" -> "chronological"

In Rule 1230.22, "Stabitooum":
"entites" -> "entities"

In Rule 1240.17, "Otzma Card of type Grave Robber":
"entites" -> "entities"

In Rule 1250.17, "Mediocrity":
"Medicore" -> "Mediocre"

In Rule 1250.18, "Ye Olde Rusty Lantern":
"aleep" -> "asleep"

In Rule 1301, "Church":
"manipualted" -> "manipulated"

   In the Literature List:

Confucious -> Confucius
Edgar Allen Poe -> Edgar Allan Poe
Zepplin -> Zeppelin
Stangelove -> Strangelove
Citizen Cane -> Citizen Kane

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Blondie:Eat To The Beat
Current Book--David Foster Wallace:Infinite Jest
The man who laughs last has not yet heard the terrible truth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:39:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Spelling Bee

> Here's another flight of the Spelling Bee...
> 
> [...]
> 
> In Rule 430, "Spelling Exchequer":
> "Miscellanous" -> "Miscellaneous" (multiple times)
> "necesary" -> "necessary"

Ow! Ow! Ow! OW! Man, that hurts.

breadbox

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #443
*******************************