Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #425
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Thursday, December 18 1997      Volume 02 : Number 425

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:35:48 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction them entities

On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > Check the rules.  Swinger Offices must have Legal Ackanomic Names (tm).
> 
> I don't have the time or interest to debate this; quite frankly it
> is very boring to me.  I still disagree, however, but the point is
> moot, as this office was apparently previously named by Ben.  

It was stripped of its name by my fix-up proposal.
> 
> If Niccolo remembers that name, perhaps e can share it with us,
> otherwise, I will refer to it as "Ben's Office" for now.
> 
> Also, you have said to select my pieces, Niccolo has said not to.
> You are the Chess-Umpire, which is it?

I dunno, submit a CFJ or something.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:50:26 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Vivian Norwood wrote:

> - ----------
> > From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
> > To: Ackanomic <[email-masked]>
> > Subject: Acka : synod actions
> > Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 9:39 AM
> > 
> > 
> > Synod actions are regulated activity. Any actions on behalf of the
> > Synod are the duty of the Yor-Delegate to carry out, and therefore,
> Slakko
> > may have managed to pass Synod decisions - but no more. As or-Delegate,I
> > frist carried out    actions mandated by prior decisions. I       will,
> as
> > I'm obliged to, attempt the actions apparently decided upon as a result
> of
> > Slakko's public actions, in a couple of days time,but considering the
> > depleted assets of the Synod, I'm pretty confident that it will fail.
> > 
> > 
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> First, I object to your reading that "any actions on behalf of the Synod
> are the duty of the Yor-Delegate to carry out" 
> 
> The Synod Rule simply states that:  
> 
> The Yor-Delegate has the duty of acting on behalf of the Synod, in
> accordance with the decisions of the Synod. 
> 
> However, this does not mean that every action which the Synod carries out
> must be accomplished through the Yor-Delegate.  In fact, there is evidence
> that the Synod can carry out its own actions.  For example, on Proft
> Sharing Day, the duties of the Yor-Delegate are:
> 
> ... to track and declare Profit Sharing days, calculate the amount of A$
> each Organization receives, report it to the Financier, and record the
> amount of A$ at the end of the Profit Sharing day. 
> 
> Nowhere does it state that the Yor-Delegate's duties include the *actual
> transfers themselves*.

That is because a previous section already defines the Yor-Delegate's
Duties for acting on behalf of the Synod, it is not necessary to define it
again.

> 
> In any case, the fact is that the Synod has certain actions available to it
> and, while the Yor-Delegate may act on behalf of Synod when it is proper in
> the rules for em to do so, the Synod can still act on its own without the
> Yor-Delegate.
> 
> Rule 373:
> 
> If the rules specify that a certain course of play is available to a player
> or organization, but do not specify how that course of play is to be taken,
> then that courseof play is a public action, ...

I still argue that Synod actions are regulated.

> 
> Second, I object to your misuse of the position of Yor-Delegate to
> manipulate the order of events to be other than the way they were annouced.
> While it is not directly stated in the rules that any officer must retain
> the integrity of the order of actions, it is game custom to do so.

I am not manipulating them. Slakko made a public posting which should have
gone to the Synod list. 
My vote on the action I took preceded by a long time even the existence of
the TLO Slakko is a Delegate off (sorry, the name is a bit long, and t's a
new Org..) so if any decision was taken first, it was the decision I acted
on.

I am not mis-using my position, I am acting according to Synod decision,
in the order in which they were taken, according to information you
previously did not have at your disposal, but now you do.

Niccolo Flychuck
Yor-Delegate

> 
> Balsamic Dragon
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:02:59 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> > Nowhere does it state that the Yor-Delegate's duties include the *actual
> > transfers themselves*.
> 
> That is because a previous section already defines the Yor-Delegate's
> Duties for acting on behalf of the Synod, it is not necessary to define it
> again.

When I said _nowhere_, I meant nowhere in R1303 as a whole.  How can a
person perform the transfers for an Organization?  When does the org see
the money?  The Org performs transfers of its own accord - the
Yor-Delegate does not actually make the transfer eirself.

> 
> > 
> > In any case, the fact is that the Synod has certain actions available to it
> > and, while the Yor-Delegate may act on behalf of Synod when it is proper in
> > the rules for em to do so, the Synod can still act on its own without the
> > Yor-Delegate.
> > 
> > Rule 373:
> > 
> > If the rules specify that a certain course of play is available to a player
> > or organization, but do not specify how that course of play is to be taken,
> > then that courseof play is a public action, ...
> 
> I still argue that Synod actions are regulated.

The Yor-Delegate acts as _directed_ by the Synod, correct?
So how do we know how the Synod acts?
> 
> > 
> > Second, I object to your misuse of the position of Yor-Delegate to
> > manipulate the order of events to be other than the way they were annouced.
> > While it is not directly stated in the rules that any officer must retain
> > the integrity of the order of actions, it is game custom to do so.
> 
> I am not manipulating them. Slakko made a public posting which should have
> gone to the Synod list. 
> My vote on the action I took preceded by a long time even the existence of
> the TLO Slakko is a Delegate off (sorry, the name is a bit long, and t's a
> new Org..) so if any decision was taken first, it was the decision I acted
> on.

I don't believe it should have gone to the Synod list.  It was an
organizational action, the Synod rule does not tell us how to get the
Synod to make an action.   It is like saying that I should send a
message saying that SPAM will pay me A$20 to reimburse me for a CFCJ to
acka-spam, and not to the public forum.  That's clearly in breach of
R1005, which is nowhere superseded by R1303.

> 
> I am not mis-using my position, I am acting according to Synod decision,
> in the order in which they were taken, according to information you
> previously did not have at your disposal, but now you do.

I would argue that whatever is said on the acka-synod mailing list is not
a public action, just like whatever is said on acka-spam is not a public
action.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:10:01 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

Looking at the rules, it is clear that the Office of Ben was not
destroyed.  It has no name, and no way to change its name, so Malenkai
owns the Capital Swinger Office "".  It has no pieces, not even a King,
because they were all stripped, and the office is not newly created, or
purchased in the ordinary way from the Treasury.

Yours,
Slakko

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:10:41 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > > Nowhere does it state that the Yor-Delegate's duties include the *actual
> > > transfers themselves*.
> > 
> > That is because a previous section already defines the Yor-Delegate's
> > Duties for acting on behalf of the Synod, it is not necessary to define it
> > again.
> 
> When I said _nowhere_, I meant nowhere in R1303 as a whole.  How can a
> person perform the transfers for an Organization?  When does the org see
> the money?  The Org performs transfers of its own accord - the
> Yor-Delegate does not actually make the transfer eirself.

My mistake, BD said nowhere but I agree with her on this point.

Slakko.
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:46:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

> Looking at the rules, it is clear that the Office of Ben was not
> destroyed.  It has no name, and no way to change its name, so
> Malenkai owns the Capital Swinger Office "".  It has no pieces, not
> even a King, because they were all stripped, and the office is not
> newly created, or purchased in the ordinary way from the Treasury.

If this is indeed true, then that Capital Swinger Office is in
violation of Rule 348, and the CSRR Officer should do something about
it.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:53:13 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Looking at the rules, it is clear that the Office of Ben was not
> > destroyed.  It has no name, and no way to change its name, so
> > Malenkai owns the Capital Swinger Office "".  It has no pieces, not
> > even a King, because they were all stripped, and the office is not
> > newly created, or purchased in the ordinary way from the Treasury.
> 
> If this is indeed true, then that Capital Swinger Office is in
> violation of Rule 348, and the CSRR Officer should do something about
> it.

What does "" share its primitive name with?  
It can't be " ", because Rule titles are specifically excluded.

Yours,
Slakko

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:56:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

> What does "" share its primitive name with?  
> It can't be " ", because Rule titles are specifically excluded.

No, actually Rule 348 says that Rule titles and Proposal titles may
have matching names with each other, not with anything else. (Though I
agree that the wording is less than perfectly clear. I'll add a
rewording of 348 to a proposal I'm currently working on.)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:08:27 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > What does "" share its primitive name with?  
> > It can't be " ", because Rule titles are specifically excluded.
> 
> No, actually Rule 348 says that Rule titles and Proposal titles may
> have matching names with each other, not with anything else. (Though I
> agree that the wording is less than perfectly clear. I'll add a
> rewording of 348 to a proposal I'm currently working on.)

I just realised.  No, it doesn't have the name "".  It actually has NO
name at all.  These two concepts probably are different enough.  It was
"stripped" of its name when it went to the Treasury, and hence it
currently has no name, not even the null string.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:28:03 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: The Name

I believe Malenkai's Office of Swinger is known as
Nameless Thing #1

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:10:30 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka : proposal

#submit proposal Shouting Repeal in a Crowded Synod

This is a Modest Proposal.
Repeal R1303  "Synod"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:40:52 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> I suggest Vulcan accept Malenkai as a member, and I approve this action.

I approve that suggestion.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:58:03 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> > I suggest Vulcan accept Malenkai as a member, and I approve this action.
> 
> I approve that suggestion.

I proxy my approval to Vulcan.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:00:21 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

- ----------
> From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
> To: Ackanomic <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions
> Date: Thursday, December 18, 1997 3:02 AM
> 
> On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > > Nowhere does it state that the Yor-Delegate's duties include the
*actual
> > > transfers themselves*.
> > 
> > That is because a previous section already defines the Yor-Delegate's
> > Duties for acting on behalf of the Synod, it is not necessary to define
it
> > again.
> 
> When I said _nowhere_, I meant nowhere in R1303 as a whole.  How can a
> person perform the transfers for an Organization?  When does the org see
> the money?  The Org performs transfers of its own accord - the
> Yor-Delegate does not actually make the transfer eirself.
> 

Umm, wasn't it me who said that?

I agree with everything Slakko says.

<<the SPAM hive mind is taking over!!!>>

BalSPAMic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:19:48 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another Title Claim

I belatedly vote yes.

I would post this on the senate list if the other senators would tell me
where it was.  *snif*

Balsamic Dragon

> 
> Given that I now have 3 times as many Accepted-Null proposals as the rest
> of Ackanomic put together, I would ask the Senate to recognise me as an
> 
> Expert in Null Proposals.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:27:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another Title Claim

> I would post this on the senate list if the other senators would tell me
> where it was.  *snif*

Check out the Postmaster's web page. All ackanomic-related lists are
described there.

The list you seek is called acka-senate.

You can subscribe yourself to acka-senate by sending email to
[email-masked] which says "subscribe acka-senate". (Note
that you send the email to majordomo, and not to the list in question.
majordomo is one program which manages all of the mailing lists.)

You can unsubscribe yourself with a message saying "unsubscribe
acka-senate".

These commands work for all of the public mailing lists.

Check out the Postmaster's web page for other fascinating details.

breadbox
Postmaster

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:53:50 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka Finance

Are there finance records showing additions and subtractions in the same
way as the score page?

If so, where can I find them?

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:02:27 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Map-Harfer

I hereby nominate Slakko, the only contestant, to the office of Map-Harfer.
His Map page, which may still be not quite up to date, is at
http://drc24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/map.html, and this link will soon
be up on the web page.  Feel free to go there and nitpick.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--REM:Monster
Current Book--Juanita Coulson:Outward Bound
The housemate prefers ironing to washing up.  They have many flat forks.  -jsam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:08:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

> Looking at the rules, it is clear that the Office of Ben was not
> destroyed.  It has no name, and no way to change its name, so Malenkai
> owns the Capital Swinger Office "".  It has no pieces, not even a King,
> because they were all stripped, and the office is not newly created, or
> purchased in the ordinary way from the Treasury.
 
Actually, there may be another possibility.  Malenkai called the hearing
on "The Capital Swinger's Office in the Treasury".  I'd have to check
the Rules on this one, but the office owned by Ben might not have been
the only such Office in the Treasury.  If so, then either the Hearing
failed entirely, since it was not specified unambiguously, or one of the
Offices is chosen at random, in which case he might get a "fresh" one.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--REM:Monster
Current Book--Juanita Coulson:Outward Bound
History repeats itself because nobody listens.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:11:36 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka Finance

> Are there finance records showing additions and subtractions in the same
> way as the score page?

> If so, where can I find them?

I presume you're referring here to the pointlog, e.g.

Dec 16 03:50 EST: -4 Malenkai: P2477 (author, modest, yes)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 Crackfoo: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 Balsamic Dragon: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 Alfvaen: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 The Gingham Wearer: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 /dev/joe: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 03:50 EST: +1 Rex Mundi: P2477 (yes, modest)
Dec 16 05:37 EST: -2 Niccolo Flychuck: retracting P2517
Dec 16 19:27 EST: -1 Slakko: judgement overturned on CFJ 483
Dec 17 02:37 EST: -2 Slakko: retracting P2532

There is such a record for the Financier stuff, but it is not publicly
available, because I have a copy on my home machine but don't upload it
to www.telusplanet.net because I'm already running real real close to my
2M quota there.  (I'm hoping at some point to maybe get a cable modem so
I can continuously connect my machine to the Internet, and then run all
the web stuff off of it, except that then the web pages would be down
whenever I booted to DOS to play Railroad Tycoon...)

If you want a copy of the entitylog, let me know and I'll send one your
way.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--REM:Monster
Current Book--Juanita Coulson:Outward Bound
A depth-first search may provide unusual rewards.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:18:38 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka Finance

> There is such a record for the Financier stuff, but it is not publicly
> available, because I have a copy on my home machine but don't upload it
> to www.telusplanet.net because I'm already running real real close to my
> 2M quota there.  (I'm hoping at some point to maybe get a cable modem so
> I can continuously connect my machine to the Internet, and then run all
> the web stuff off of it, except that then the web pages would be down
> whenever I booted to DOS to play Railroad Tycoon...)
> 
> If you want a copy of the entitylog, let me know and I'll send one your
> way.
> 

Yeah, I think it would be a good thing to have access to, but I understand
the difficulty.  I would like a copy, I don't know if it is feasible, but
all I am really looking for is my own entries for the past couple of
months.  Is that possible?  If not, I'll take whatever I can get.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:32:50 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another Title Claim

> Given that I now have 3 times as many Accepted-Null proposals as the rest
> of Ackanomic put together, I would ask the Senate to recognise me as an
> 
> Expert in Null Proposals.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko

I vote yes.

Rex Mundi, acting Senator.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:55:47 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Map-Harfer

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
> Current Album--REM:Monster
> Current Book--Juanita Coulson:Outward Bound
> The housemate prefers ironing to washing up.  They have many flat forks.  -jsam

Who is this jsam of which you speak?  I would be intrigued to hear eir
full name.

Yours,
Slakko (slightly wondering what is going on)

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:58:34 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka Public Action

I suggest that, of the monies given to it by Balsamic Dragon, SPAM give 
A$200 back to Balsamic Dragon so that e can construct a tower to seek
shelter from the tornado.  

I approve of this suggestion.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:03:00 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka Public Action

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Vivian Norwood wrote:

> I suggest that, of the monies given to it by Balsamic Dragon, SPAM give 
> A$200 back to Balsamic Dragon so that e can construct a tower to seek
> shelter from the tornado.  

I approve this suggestion.

I proxy my support to SPAM.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:10:45 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

> 
> I would argue that whatever is said on the acka-synod mailing list is not
> a public action, just like whatever is said on acka-spam is not a public
> action.
> 
> --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

And you would most certainly be correct in such a statement.  Furthermore,
while the postal code lists some mailing lists as being the appropriate
place for certain actions, I think the only actions that were actually
prohibited from the main list were (and are) actions for subgames.  So
a synod-realted action sent to the main list would, so far as I can see,
be legal.

What the real issue may be here, and I am far from knowledgeable about the
workings of the synod, is if a private decision can be reached on the
synod list, which it is then the Yor-Delegate's job to act upon on the
main list.  I *think* this is what Niccolo was saying he was up to with
his actions, although not being on the synod list I certainly can't verify
it.

As a more or less impartial observer, I urge one or both of you guys to
just submit a CFJ before someone gets hurt.

                                   - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:32:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Slakko's expert apps

Summary of senate voting on Slakko's applications for expert status.

1. Getting Everyone Annoyed by a Scam Win.
I voted Yes, Vynd and mr cwm voted No. Balsamic dragon failed to vote.
The voting period on this one ended yesterday. 2-1, rejected.

2. Unwinning
I voted Yes, Vynd and mr cwm voted No, Balsamic Dragon voted Yes
(in time, though she thought she was late). 2-2 tie, the Proconsul
shall break the tie.

3. Null Proposals
I voted Yes, Vynd voted Yes, Rex Mundi (acting for mr cwm) voted Yes,
and Balsamic Dragon voted Yes. 4-0, the application is approved.

/dev/joe
Senator

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:39:24 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Those darn chess pieces

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Looking at the rules, it is clear that the Office of Ben was not
> > destroyed.  It has no name, and no way to change its name, so
> > Malenkai owns the Capital Swinger Office "".  It has no pieces, not
> > even a King, because they were all stripped, and the office is not
> > newly created, or purchased in the ordinary way from the Treasury.
> 
> If this is indeed true, then that Capital Swinger Office is in
> violation of Rule 348, and the CSRR Officer should do something about
> it.
> 
> breadbox
> 

Well, I finally tracked down the definition of Swinger's Offices, and they
aren't defined as entities.  I think it is fair to say that that Ackanomic
tradition indicates that they are entities, however.  One could quibble
over what having something "stripped" of its name does, but lets assume it
became nameless.  While the Party Hall Rule doesn't say that Capital
Swingers Offices are entities, it does say that they are named (I don't
think this is the case for other Singers Offices).  So if it is a named
entity that became nameless, it would indeed be assigned a new name
Nameless Thing #X.  I am not sure, but I think there might be a few
Nameless Things out there already, so perhaps the Financier can check and
see what the lowest positive integer that would create a unique name is.
But it definitely was assigned a name then.  This being the case, if
Malenkai really did call an Auction them Entities hearing for "The
Swinger's Office that is in the Treasury" then that call for a hearing
failed. Rule 520 says that "e must specify the name of a Tradeable Ownable
Entity which is in the Treasury."

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:43:12 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Slakko's expert apps

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Summary of senate voting on Slakko's applications for expert status.
> 
> 1. Getting Everyone Annoyed by a Scam Win.
> I voted Yes, Vynd and mr cwm voted No. Balsamic dragon failed to vote.
> The voting period on this one ended yesterday. 2-1, rejected.
> 
> 2. Unwinning
> I voted Yes, Vynd and mr cwm voted No, Balsamic Dragon voted Yes
> (in time, though she thought she was late). 2-2 tie, the Proconsul
> shall break the tie.
> 
> 3. Null Proposals
> I voted Yes, Vynd voted Yes, Rex Mundi (acting for mr cwm) voted Yes,
> and Balsamic Dragon voted Yes. 4-0, the application is approved.
> 
> /dev/joe
> Senator

Um, actually, I changed my mind and voted NO on the last one, probably
while /dev/joe was writing this message.  Not sure if that means that his
report was entirely invalid, or if the result of becoming an Expert in
Null Proposals stands but /dev/joe is considered to have made a mistake
in reporting the actual votes.  Probably the later.

                                  - Vynd
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:58:00 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction them entities

On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > Check the rules.  Swinger Offices must have Legal Ackanomic Names (tm).
> 
> I don't have the time or interest to debate this; quite frankly it
> is very boring to me.  I still disagree, however, but the point is
> moot, as this office was apparently previously named by Ben.  
> 
> If Niccolo remembers that name, perhaps e can share it with us,
> otherwise, I will refer to it as "Ben's Office" for now.

It was called The Office of Ben, but as far as a I recall the Capital
Swinger rules, a new owner can rename the office, but I'll have to look it
up.

Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> Also, you have said to select my pieces, Niccolo has said not to.
> You are the Chess-Umpire, which is it?
> 
> Malenkai
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:03:49 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: The Infrequent Ackan Vol. 1, Issue 4a

Volume 1, Issue 4a
December 18, 1997
In this issue:
1. Editorial
2. Latest Ackanomic News
3. A Potted History of SPAM
 
Editorial
Welcome to the real fourth issue of The Infrequent Ackan.  There was an
exceedingly short "publication" last week, which was, unfortunately,
technically part of The Infrequent Ackan.  For the benefit of the
readership we will not be publishing the statement again.  /dev/joe is
fighting to eliminate these kinds of statements, by making the mu not
true.  We at the Ackan see this as just another attempt of the Vulcan
Retired Overlords to stifle our free speech and restrict what players say.
Why, the Editor himself is severely restricted as to what e can talk about
already as Scholar - any further incursions into his free speech could be
quite disastrous.
Since the last issue, the 26 November win situation has been cleared up,
although in a rather unfortunate way.  While both Malenkai and Alfvaen did
in fact receive a "win", they each received different ones.  Alfvaen's win
was a win of Viruses, a game which had somehow managed to continue play
for three weeks after he won it.  Malenkai, on the other hand, was only
eligible to win the Cycle, and promptly did so.  We at the Ackan wish
Alfvaen hearty commiserations on having been randomly eliminated from the
Cycle-winning.  We also congratulate Malenkai on his superb win, taking
his tally of wins to more than all the rest of Acka (including past
winners who are no longer with us) combined.
Plots abound as usual here in Acka.  The Editor officially wishes to ask
for all people in Acka to submit their paranoid delusions, in the hope
that we may find enough for a complete issue devoted to ramblings,
worries, etc.  Meanwhile, the Vulcans are attempting to undo the good work
of the folk of SPAM, by trying to eliminate Rule 2000 from the ruleset.
Are they not satisfied with denying the renumbering?  Must they continue
to defend their vainglorious position against all costs?  Wait and see...
Oh, and one more thing..  There wasn't really time for me to ask Niccolo
for his insights into a Party Chess column.  There will therefore be no
Chess column this issue, we will instead wait for the next issue, due
early in the New Year (one hopes).
Slakko
Editor, The Infrequent Ackan
Expert in Null Proposals

Latest Ackanomic News
By Slakko
Deuce Reporter, Infrequent Ackan
First of all, updates from last weeks hot stories:
The SPAM Party's attack on Rule 1 collapsed in the face of an overturned
CFJ.  This reporter is in no doubt that the Supreme Court acted
honourably, and that Justice ThinMan's allegiances to the Vulcan Party
were completely ignored when e was making his decision.  The overturning
meant that two proposals submitted by Slakko which passed became Null
Proposals, sending him rocketing to 3!
The Grab-a-Donkey game is nearing a climax.  The Little Lamb has saved
two-star's ass, keeping em in Round 9.  Meanwhile, the elusive Robert
Sevin, who has been admiring eir donkey for quite some time now, remains
in the game.  One wonders if eir non-aggression strategy will lead em to a
win as all other Donkeys fall by the wayside.
Malenkai definitely did not win a cycle in the last 168 hours, we think.
Odo on the Wormhole became a Church this week, reinstating Synod, thanks
to the existence of RexBank, and later Religious Nutcase.  This area
appears to be the main dispute of the week.  (Perhaps there should be a
new column written).  There is now serious argument as to the meaning
behind the Synod.  Does it conduct all of its business behind closed
doors, or does it have to act like any other Organization since it was
stripped of its Institution status?  With Synod possibly to be disbanded
in the next week, there has been a premature grave-robbing rush.  RexBank
and Odo on the Wormhole claimed all the money on the synod mailing list.
Meanwhile, Religious Nutcase, founded only this week and with Slakko and
Balsamic Dragon as members, attempted to publicly exhort Synod to hand
over all its money.  CFJ business looks hot again, as a dispute over
nearly A$500 in Cash and Trinkets appears certain to go down to the wire.
In Other News:
A new game of Viruses has started, run by Alfvaen and with 8 players.
The Eggplant Conditions have been listed, and the Eggplant Auction is
underway as we speak.

A Potted History of SPAM
By Slakko
Founder of SPAM
Unlike many political parties in Acka, SPAM was not Grandfathered into
existence as a political party per se.  It developed in the last month and
a half.  The initial reason behind SPAM was simply an attempt to get into
Party Chess, without really worrying too much about Capital Swinger
Offices.  Given the difficulties this week with Malenkai's Capital Office
purchased at auction (or was it), it appears that this decision was
probably the correct one. 
However, with Malenkai looking to re-org the org rules, and stamp out
one-member organizations, SPAM appeared in jeopardy.  An appeal for
members was hastily launched, combined with publicity of SPAM's original
free-access policy.  Yes, SPAM was a political party which anyone could
join.  This led to some problems later, but at the start it was very
useful.  The advertisement attracted two more members, mr cwm and
Fortunato, and the safety of SPAM was assured.
With the new found independence and security of three members (and the
possibility for Unity Votes), SPAM issued its first draft charter.  Being
the "Society for the Prevention of Ackanomic Misdemeanours", SPAM
naturally wanted to be tough on crime, but in a humorous way.  The charter
raised the interest of Balsamic Dragon, the fourth member of SPAM and a
loyal fighter against the Vulcan loophole surfers.
In its first month, SPAM became a bulwark against Vulcan aggression, and a
way for part of the Rebellion to fight back with the strength of Unity
Votes.  At the same time, it developed as a Party, while never losing its
free membership offer.  With the influx of new players into Acka in late
November and early December, SPAM became a welcome wagon of sorts. Two new
members were attracted, The Gingham Wearer and else...if, who have both
provided SPAM with useful ideas and Party solidarity.
SPAM suffered a mini-crisis in mid-December, when its free membership
brought it under fire from renowned loophole surfer Malenkai.
Fortunately, he initially only denounced one suggestion, and thereafter
was a minimal problem.  breadbox attempted to misuse SPAM's policy to
prevent a Unity Vote, but it still did not prevent a proposal he desired
dead from passing.  Malenkai became SPAM's 7th member (an all time record
for an Ackan political party) for a few days, joining just before the free
membership offer drawbridge was raised.  He was kicked out soon after,
becoming the first SPAMmer ejected by CFCJ.  He is now crawling back into
the Vulcan fold.
SPAM is heading into the new year full of promise.  While Fortunato has
left us, this may only be a temporary shift due to his RL commitments.
With 5 members SPAM is still the biggest Party in Acka, giving it a
significant say.  We must always remember to use this wisely.

Advertisement: One Machine, slightly *ping*ed.  Tells truths, minor
asterisk flaw.  Correct answer or best offer.  Will be assigned randomly
after December 20, so get in quick.  Only 19 owners, good condition, 1
only.  Email [email-masked] to reply.

The Infrequent Ackan, first to you with Ackan news.
Copyright  Duncan Richer aka Slakko, 18/12/97.
Check us out on the web, at
http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/Nomic/Acka/infrequent.html 

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:09:38 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction them entities

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> > > Check the rules.  Swinger Offices must have Legal Ackanomic Names (tm).
> > 
> > I don't have the time or interest to debate this; quite frankly it
> > is very boring to me.  I still disagree, however, but the point is
> > moot, as this office was apparently previously named by Ben.  
> > 
> > If Niccolo remembers that name, perhaps e can share it with us,
> > otherwise, I will refer to it as "Ben's Office" for now.
> 
> It was called The Office of Ben, but as far as a I recall the Capital
> Swinger rules, a new owner can rename the office, but I'll have to look it
> up.

Only if e purchases it in the normal manner.  There is nothing saying that
someone who gets it in an Auction can rename it.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:21:05 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka Public Action

> > I suggest that, of the monies given to it by Balsamic Dragon, SPAM
give 
> > A$200 back to Balsamic Dragon so that e can construct a tower to
seek
> > shelter from the tornado.  
> 
> I approve this suggestion.
> 
> I proxy my support to SPAM.

I likewise do both the above.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:30:55 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka : synod actions

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Vivian Norwood wrote:
> 
> Umm, wasn't it me who said that?
> 
> I agree with everything Slakko says.
> 
> <<the SPAM hive mind is taking over!!!>>

I am SPAMkko.  This is BalSPAMic Dragon, mr SPAM, The GingSPAM Wearer and
else...SPAM.  We are SPAM.  Real meat is irrelevant.  You will be
Hormelized.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:06:31 -0000
From: "The Gingham Wearer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Complaints

Well, now the scam proposal's been voted down I may as well use my
crazy French Scotsmen appeals...

I've just been reading through the points log for this cycle and
discovered, much to my chagrin, that I lost points when I went and read
the Ackanomicon. How completely unreasonable. After all, it's only a
*book*. How can a book lose me points. I'm sure that the rule about
losing points wasn't there when I first looked. You've been changing
the rules again, haven't you? And what's more no-one told me when you
changed them! How was I supposed to know? If you'd have warned me that
you were changing the rules then I wouldn't have gone down there. I'm
not *that* stupid, y'know! I demand my points back, *now*.

What's more, I even lost points for proposal 2437 being rejected. Why?
All I was trying to do was make the game a bit more fun. Why should I
be punished for that? Did you tell me I should be punished for that?
Could I possibly have known I was going to be punished for it? No
reason. Not a chance. No reason whatsoever. Of course, I would have
known if you hadn't gone and changed the rules. I had read them, you
know. Really I had! But then.... I can't believe it. When am I going to
get these points back?

My God, on a second look I discovered I lost points for proposal 2470
being rejected as well. I said the proposal would only have an effect
if proposal 2462 passed, which of course, it didn't. How was I to know
that it would have an effect on my score anyway? Come on, how? Did you
tell me? Besides, I'd given up reading the rules by then because you
keep changing them. Ridiculous!!!

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #425
*******************************