Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #414
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Saturday, December 13 1997      Volume 02 : Number 414

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:55:00 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: There's a bug...

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Towsner wrote:

> I accept the transfer from The Gingham Wearer

<scam text deleted>

BRAVO!  Well done guys.

> 
> Finally, I retract proposal 2480.  I'll submit a better version shortly.
> 
> Sumary of items created:
> Scroll of Crumble(3)
> Big Blue Thing(3)
> Whamiol(4)
> Vending Machine(4)
> Gravitational Monopole(3)
> Evil Ballot Stuffer(4)
> JMCL(3)
> Spellbook of Chorg(3)
> Bonus Vote-Add On(4)
> Monkey Wrench(3)
> Shelter(4)
> Spaceship(3)
> Laser(3)
> Frobntozer(3)
> Laser Attatchment(3)
> Oscar(2)
> Butler(1)
> Automatic Sculpture(1)

So what are you going to do with all this neat stuff?

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:15:23 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: There's a bug...

>So what are you going to do with all this neat stuff?
	I haven't decided yet...  I'll have to auction some of it off, but
otherwise I'm open to suggestions.

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:04:21 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: There's a bug...

> > I accept the transfer from The Gingham Wearer
> 
> <scam text deleted>

I'm not sure how this was done without trade
licenses.  I'll leave it to the financier to harf it,
though.

Furthermore, the gadgets are created by
the secret lab after 3 days, you have to wait.

Malenkai
whi actually discovered this "bug", and many, many,
others in the org rules...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:17:14 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 474 Appeal Verdict

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> 
> Do you then see a "win" as an object?

Not unless you mix up two completely different senses of the word, perhaps
even different parts of speech, but I'd have to look that up

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> - --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:25:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Towsner's Clock

I've been noticing this for a while and it's starting to get on my nerves.
Towsner's clock on his computer is set about 15-20 minutes fast. 
This message, marked:

> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:15:23 -0500
> To: [email-masked]
> From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Acka: There's a bug...

reached muppetlabs.com at 8:59 -0800 (= 11:59 -0500) and reached my
computer by 11:01 -0600 (= 12:01 -0500).

I have my mail reader sort messages in order of date sent, which lets me
usually follow things in an orderly fashion, and when I read replies to
messages I haven't gotten to yet it bothers me a little.

And as Malenkai noted, none of those transfers of the secret lab worked
because the orgs did not have trade licenses; Towsner's first org has
a Secret Lab now and will have the gadget he named (I think a scroll of
crumble) in 3 days.  Vulcan noticed this scam recently, and saw that the
necessity of the trade license would mean that gadgets could be made for
A$50 a piece, which is surely a scam but not a vicious or game-breaking
one.  Now that the scam is out in the open we will have to close it. :-\

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:24:36 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 474 Appeal Verdict

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Do you then see a "win" as an object?
> 
> Not unless you mix up two completely different senses of the word, perhaps
> even different parts of speech, but I'd have to look that up

Well it is probably too late to appeal by now, so it doesn't really
matter.

I checked Merriam-Webster and I'm pretty sure they're the same part of
speech.  Object is defined nowhere else, so it can grab both meanings even
if one is a stretch.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:28:23 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Towsner's Clock

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> And as Malenkai noted, none of those transfers of the secret lab worked
> because the orgs did not have trade licenses; Towsner's first org has
> a Secret Lab now and will have the gadget he named (I think a scroll of
> crumble) in 3 days.  Vulcan noticed this scam recently, and saw that the
> necessity of the trade license would mean that gadgets could be made for
> A$50 a piece, which is surely a scam but not a vicious or game-breaking
> one.  Now that the scam is out in the open we will have to close it. :-\

One question.  The rules permit an Org with a Trade License to offer such
trades.  Does game custom prohibit Orgs which lack a Trade License from
such trades?  Do the rules?

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:32:15 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Towsner's Clock

> One question.  The rules permit an Org with a Trade License to offer such
> trades.  Does game custom prohibit Orgs which lack a Trade License from
> such trades?  Do the rules?

The game state may only be changed as described in the rules.  The
rules are less than a meg :-)

Malenkai
who as *always* been against the org rules, and acka may soon see why

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:33:01 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: There's a bug...

Good play - anyone still wants to know why I objected to things like
single player Organizations, and single players being able to work Secret
Labs, and why I am begining to object a whole lot of other things about
the kind of free for all that the Mohamnedan reform introduced into
Organizations and acka wouldn't let me undo.

It's a but - that's the way acka wanted it - no restrictions, because
restrictions are not FUN.

- ---end of rant---

Niccolo Flychuck

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Towsner wrote:

> I accept the transfer from The Gingham Wearer
> 
> In all that follows, the phrase "I approve the suggestion" refers
> specifically to the suggestion on the line immediately preceding it.
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#1
> I transfer A$1000 to Shell#1
> I suggest that Shell#1 accept the transfer of $A from me
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#1 buy a secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#1 create a Scroll of Crumble with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#2
> I suggest that Shell#1 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#2
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#2 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#1
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#2 create a Scroll of Crumble with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#3
> I suggest that Shell#2 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#3
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#3 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#2
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#3 create a Scroll of Crumble with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#4
> I suggest that Shell#3 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#4
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#4 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#3
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#4 create a Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too
> Much, Really with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#5
> I suggest that Shell#4 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#5
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#5 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#4
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#5 create a Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too
> Much, Really with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#6
> I suggest that Shell#5 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#6
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#6 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#5
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#6 create a Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too
> Much, Really with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#7
> I suggest that Shell#6 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#7
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#7 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#6
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#7 create a Whamiol with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#8
> I suggest that Shell#7 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#8
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#8 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#7
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#8 create a Whamiol with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#9
> I suggest that Shell#8 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#9
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#9 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#8
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#9 create a Whamiol with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#10
> I suggest that Shell#9 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#10
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#10 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#9
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#10 create a Vending Machine with its secret laboratory
> I approvethe suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#11
> I suggest that Shell#10 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#11
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#11 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#10
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#11 create a Vending Machine with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#12
> I suggest that Shell#11 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#12
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#12 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#11
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#12 create a Vending Machine with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#13
> I suggest that Shell#12 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#13
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#13 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#12
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#13 create a Gravitational Monopole with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#14
> I suggest that Shell#13 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#14
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#14 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#13
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#14 create a Gravitational Monopole with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#15
> I suggest that Shell#14 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#15
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#15 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#14
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#15 create a Gravitational Monopole with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#16
> I suggest that Shell#15 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#16
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#16 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#15
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#16 create a Evil Ballot Stuffer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#17
> I suggest that Shell#16 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#17
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#17 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#16
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#17 create a Evil Ballot Stuffer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#18
> I suggest that Shell#17 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#18
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#18 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#17
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#18 create a Evil Ballot Stuffer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#19
> I suggest that Shell#18 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#19
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#19 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#18
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#19 create a Jukkasjarvi Mind Control Laser with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#20
> I suggest that Shell#19 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#20
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#20 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#19
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#20 create a Jukkasjarvi Mind Control Laser with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#21
> I suggest that Shell#20 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#21
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#21 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#20
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#21 create a Jukkasjarvi Mind Control Laser with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#22
> I suggest that Shell#21 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#22
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#22 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#21
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#22 create a Spell Book of Chorg with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#23
> I suggest that Shell#22 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#23
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#23 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#22
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#23 create a Spell Book of Chorg with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#24
> I suggest that Shell#23 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#24
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#24 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#23
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#24 create a Spell Book of Chorg with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#25
> I suggest that Shell#24 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#25
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#25 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#24
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#25 create a Plunky Monkey Wrench with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#26
> I suggest that Shell#25 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#26
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#26 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#25
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#26 create a Plunky Monkey Wrench with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#27
> I suggest that Shell#26 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#27
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#27 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#26
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#27 create a Plunky Monkey Wrench with its secret
> laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#28
> I suggest that Shell#27 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#28
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#28 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#27
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#28 create a Bonus Vote Add-On with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#29
> I suggest that Shell#28 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#29
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#29 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#28
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#29 create a Bonus Vote Add-On with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#30
> I suggest that Shell#29 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#30
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#30 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#29
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#30 create a Bonus Vote Add-On with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#31
> I suggest that Shell#30 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#31
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#31 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#30
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#31 create a Gimme Shelter with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#32
> I suggest that Shell#31 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#32
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#32 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#31
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#32 create a Gimme Shelter with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#33
> I suggest that Shell#32 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#33
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#33 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#32
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#33 create a Gimme Shelter with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#34
> I suggest that Shell#33 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#34
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#34 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#33
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#34 create a Silver Spaceship with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#35
> I suggest that Shell#34 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#35
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#35 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#34
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#35 create a Silver Spaceship with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#36
> I suggest that Shell#35 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#36
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#36 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#35
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#36 create a Silver Spaceship with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#37
> I suggest that Shell#36 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#37
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#37 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#36
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#37 create a BWG Laser with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#38
> I suggest that Shell#37 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#38
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#38 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#37
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#38 createa BWG Laser with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#39
> I suggest that Shell#38 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#39
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#39 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#38
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#39 create a BWG Laser with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#40
> I suggest that Shell#39 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#40
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#40 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#39
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#40 create a Pyraic Frobnotzer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> I accept the transfer of a Pyraic Frobnotzer from Shell#40
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#41
> I suggest that Shell#40 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#41
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#41 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#40
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#41 create a Pyraic Frobnotzer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#42
> I suggest that Shell#41 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#42
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#42 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#41
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#42 create a Pyraic Frobnotzer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#43
> I suggest that Shell#42 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#43
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#43 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#42
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#43 create a BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#44
> I suggest that Shell#43 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#44
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#44 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#43
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#44 create a BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#45
> I suggest that Shell#44 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#45
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#45 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#44
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#45 create a BWG Laser Shotgun Attachment with its
> secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#46
> I suggest that Shell#45 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#46
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#46 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#45
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#46 create a Automatic Sculpture with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#47
> I suggest that Shell#46 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#47
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#47 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#46
> Iapprove the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#47 create a Oscar with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#48
> I suggest that Shell#47 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#48
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#48 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#47
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#48 create a Butler with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#49
> I suggest that Shell#48transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#49
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#49 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#48
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#49 create a Whamiol with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#50
> I suggest that Shell#49 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#50
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#50 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#49
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#50 create a Evil Ballot Stuffer with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#51
> I suggest that Shell#50 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#51
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#51 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#50
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#51 create a Oscar with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#52
> I suggest that Shell#51 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#52
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#52 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#51
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#52 create a Bonus Vote Add-On with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create anorganization named Shell#53
> I suggest that Shell#52 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#53
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#53 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#52
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#53 create a Gimme Shelter with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> I create an organization named Shell#54
> I suggest that Shell#53 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#54
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#54 recieve the Secret Laboratoryfrom Shell#53
> I approve the suggestion
> I suggest that Shell#54 create a Vending Machine with its secret laboratory
> I approve the suggestion
> 
> Finally, I retract proposal 2480.  I'll submit a better version shortly.
> 
> Sumary of items created:
> Scrollof Crumble(3)
> Big Blue Thing(3)
> Whamiol(4)
> Vending Machine(4)
> Gravitational Monopole(3)
> Evil Ballot Stuffer(4)
> JMCL(3)
> Spellbook of Chorg(3)
> Bonus Vote-Add On(4)
> Monkey Wrench(3)
> Shelter(4)
> Spaceship(3)
> Laser(3)
> Frobntozer(3)
> Laser Attatchment(3)
> Oscar(2)
> Butler(1)
> Automatic Sculpture(1)
> 
> - --
> Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio
> 
> - -Henry Towsner
> 
> 	<[email-masked]>
> 
> 	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
> follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
> true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
> visionary who will never be elected."
> 	-Marilyn vos Savant
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of ackanomic digest V2 #413
> *******************************
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:59:18 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Once more

I intend to found the church OM#1
I intend to found the church OM#2
I intend to found the church OM#3
I intend to found the church OM#4
I intend to found the church OM#5
I intend to found the church OM#6
I intend to found the church OM#7
I intend to found the church OM#8
I intend to found the church OM#9
I intend to found the church OM#10
I intend to found the church OM#11
I intend to found the church OM#12
I intend to found the church OM#13
I intend to found the church OM#14
I intend to found the church OM#15
I intend to found the church OM#16
I intend to found the church OM#17
I intend to found the church OM#18
I intend to found the church OM#19
I intend to found the church OM#20
I intend to found the church OM#20
I intend to found the church OM#22
I intend to found the church OM#23
I intend to found the church OM#24
I intend to found the church OM#25
I intend to found the church OM#26
I intend to found the church OM#27
I intend to found the church OM#28
I intend to found the church OM#29
I intend to found the church OM#30
I intend to found the church OM#31
I intend to found the church OM#32
I intend to found the church OM#33
I intend to found the church OM#34
I intend to found the church OM#35
I intend to found the church OM#36
I intend to found the church OM#37
I intend to found the church OM#38
I intend to found the church OM#39
I intend to found the church OM#40
I intend to found the church OM#41
I intend to found the church OM#42
I intend to found the church OM#43
I intend to found the church OM#44
I intend to found the church OM#45
I intend to found the church OM#46
I intend to found the church OM#47
I intend to found the church OM#48
I intend to found the church OM#49
I intend to found the church OM#50
I intend to found the church OM#51
I intend to found the church OM#52
I intend to found the church OM#53

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:07:09 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: (Slakko)

	Slakko, I can't seem to get mail to you.  Would you ming loaning me
A$50 and joining my churches.  All of them?  P.S. I need one more person.
Clearly I can make it worth while for you.

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:10:48 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: And another...

	I'm not quite sure this will work, but it's worth a try.  I create
an organization called Trouble.  I transfer A$-50000 to Trouble.  I leave
Trouble.

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:21:16 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Did it work?

	It seems to me that the decision for CFJ 483 implies that what I
did would work.  No where does it say that organizations can't trade
objects.  Comments?

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:03:57 -0800
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Once more

Towsner wrote:
> 
> I intend to found the church OM#1
> I intend to found the church OM#2
[snippage]

From Rule 1301:
 
"6. A player may not be a member of more than three Churches at the same
time."

I don't think you will be able to populate these so easily. I have a
variant of the multi org scam that should work, however. if anyone
wishes to be my co-conspirator, (I should require only one,) e-mail me.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:29:33 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Once more

>"6. A player may not be a member of more than three Churches at the same
>time."
<sigh> you're right.  I hearby announce my intent not to found any of
those.  Oh well.

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:39:30 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Question

	One question.  If an organization can't accept trades without a
trade license, how does it get money to buy a trade license?

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:30:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Did it work?

> 	It seems to me that the decision for CFJ 483 implies that what I
> did would work.  No where does it say that organizations can't trade
> objects.  Comments?

I don't think the Judge's reasoning on CFJ 483 is sound, although the
verdict may be correct.

An organization changing its name is probably permitted based on
game custom and Rule 101, which states in part, "Whatever is not explicitly
prohibited or regulated by the rules, however, is permitted and unregulated."

Trades by organizations, however, are explicitly regulated by the rules.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:29:30 -0800
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Question

Towsner wrote:
> 
>         One question.  If an organization can't accept trades without a
> trade license, how does it get money to buy a trade license?

It can recieve gift entities, such as A$, without having to accept them.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:37:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Question

> 	One question.  If an organization can't accept trades without a
> trade license, how does it get money to buy a trade license?

Somebody has to *give* it the money.

There are gift entities, Ackadollars and trinkets, which can be transferred
merely by their owner giving them away, as opposed to normal trades where
the recipient also has to accept them. When the current org structure
was started this problem existed because the gift entities could only be
given freely to players, but the rules were fixed to include orgs. Of
course, there were other problems when the current org structure started,
such as not being able to *join* orgs. :-) Despite the current crop of bugs,
the org rules are a lot better than they used to be when we first re-orged
to the current structure.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:46:32 -0000
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Once more

> I don't think you will be able to populate these so easily. I have a
> variant of the multi org scam that should work, however. if anyone
> wishes to be my co-conspirator, (I should require only one,) e-mail
me.
> 
> **two-star

I'll be a co-conspirator.

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:43:54 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Question

> Despite the current crop of bugs, the org rules are a lot better
> than they used to be when we first re-orged to the current structure.

ROTFL!

Malenkai
anticipating alot of work in the near future

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:52:59 -0000
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Did it work?

> An organization changing its name is probably permitted based on
> game custom and Rule 101, which states in part, "Whatever is not
explicitly
> prohibited or regulated by the rules, however, is permitted and
unregulated."
> 
> Trades by organizations, however, are explicitly regulated by the
rules.

Where?

The Gingham Wearer.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:59:33 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Did it work?

>Where?
	I think he means under Trade Licenses, where it says that an
organization with a trade license can do things on the Free Market.

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:06:35 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: I never give up!

	I have it now...Slakko, Gingham Wearer, and
one-other-person-who-will-be-rewarded-for-their-helpfulness, could someone
please loan me $A50 (I really need more cash...) and join the three
churches I intend to found.  This method is a little longer, but I think
it'll work.

I intend to found the church YAT#1
I intend to found the church YAT#2
I intend to found the church YAT#3

- --
Omnium pro iure, ius pro omnio

- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	"I think the true test of a genius is the ability to see the
follies of one's own times.  The ability to change one's own times is the
true test of a leader.  And the ability to do both is the true test of a
visionary who will never be elected."
	-Marilyn vos Savant

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:11:47 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I never give up!

> I intend to found the church YAT#1
> I intend to found the church YAT#2
> I intend to found the church YAT#3

I join these 3 churches.

Malenkai
pious

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:18:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Everybody Stay Calm

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Slakko wrote:

>So what's the point of having Rule 103 now, if anything stronger than it
>will be repealed in a crisis, and anything as weak as it gets overruled in
>a crisis?  It appears to be a derelict rule.

Might the value of R103 be that it prevents poorly written ordinary rules
from having unintentional retroactive effects?

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:22:30 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 488 (rufus)

rufus has been selected.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgment 488
  Subject: Receiving Secret Laboratories
Initiator: The Gingham Wearer
Submitted: 97-12-13 13:21
    Judge: rufus (selected 97-12-13 14:22)
Judgement: 

Statement:

The organisation Shell#2 received a Secret Laboratory from the
organisation Shell#1 when Else...if posted the following:

"I suggest that Shell#1 transfer the Secret Laboratory to Shell#2
I approve the suggestion
I suggest that Shell#2 recieve the Secret Laboratory from Shell#1
I approve the suggestion"

Initiator's Comments:

Rule 101 states that:

"The rules and the game state may only be changed as described in the
rules."

However rule 101 also states:

"Whatever is not explicitly prohibited or regulated by the rules,
however, is permitted and unregulated"

This is part of the rules and it is therefore permissible to change the
game state or rules in any way that is not forbidden by the rules.
Nowhere in the rules is it stated that an organisation without a trade
license is not permitted to offer or accept gifts. Rule 1011 does
state:

"If an Organization has a Trade License, that Organization may offer,
accept, and retract trades on the Free Market, and give gifts."

This does not however mean that only organizations with trade license
may do so. I think that the crux of the matter lies in the
interpretation of the word "if". If you have a sentence reading:

"If an object is red then it is not black"

Then this does not mean that the only objects which are not black are
red.

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #414
*******************************