Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #405
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest     Wednesday, December 10 1997     Volume 02 : Number 405

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:59:49 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> 
> I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> to A$2.

I again buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:03:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

Malenkai wrote:
> > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> > 
> > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> > to A$2.
> > 
> > /dev/joe
> 
> I buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
> Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.

I unstrap my Bonus-Vote Add-On.

I ack Malenkai's gift of a bonus vote.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:04:53 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Gift

> I offer Alfvaen a Gimme Shelter and an Automatic
> Sculpture as a gift, pending acceptance.

I accept these gifts.  And I pledge that if I am re-elected
President, I shall give the Gimme Shelter to one of my voters,
chosen at random.  So don't say I don't care about the
Tornados.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Lou Reed:Set The Twilight Reeling
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
It's only water in a stranger's tears

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:06:06 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.

> I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes 
> to A$2.

I buy one Bonus Vote for A$2 from /dev/joe's Machine.  (I'd buy more,
but I have enough trouble figuring out when it's worth using them...
I did just use the one I got from my first *ping* guess way back in
May or something, so I might as well replace it.)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Lou Reed:Set The Twilight Reeling
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
Elvis to Mars--Kennedy's dead.  I'm coming home.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:06:23 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> > 
> > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> > to A$2.
> > 
> > /dev/joe
> 
> I buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
> Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.
> 
> Malenkai
> 

I accept.

                           - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:07:00 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> > 
> > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> > to A$2.
> 
> I again buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
> Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.
> 
> Malenkai
> 

Hmm.  I accept.

                           - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:25:53 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: ACKA: Campaign Speech

> I must apologize for two things:

>         For not putting Acka in the subject the first time
>         And for reposting my speech a second time because I had a filter on Acka
> and my speech went in the spam can.....

I'm not going to say anything here.  The voters can see it for themselves.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--X:Supercharged
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
The five boxing wizards jump quickly.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:03:59 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: NoWin: Bond Dividends For December 8, 1997

I didn't realize until just now that since the Cycle ended in the last
bond-cycle, the results will be different in the two threads as well.
So if Cycle 16 has not yet ended, here are the bond dividends for the
last fortnight:

Score changes used for bond cycle calculation:
- ----------------------------------------------
Alfvaen: 25
Antimatter: 0
Archie Leach: 0
Balsamic Dragon: 27
breadbox: 32
Calvin N Hobbes: 0
Crackfoo: 53
/dev/joe: 18
else...if: 3
Fortunato: 24
K 2: 54
Karma: 0
Malenkai: 53
Michael Wren: 0
mr cwm: 10
Niccolo Flychuck: 37
norpan: 0
Red Barn: 3
Rex Mundi: 15
Robert Sevin: 0
rufus: 0
Slakko: 101
The Gingham Wearer: 3
ThinMan: 61
two-star: 27
Voting Gnome: 64
Vynd: 21
 
Bond Dividends
- --------------
Alfvaen: 20.45  -->  69*25 + 10*32
Antimatter: 0.0  -->  95*0
Archie Leach: 0.0  -->  100*0
Balsamic Dragon: 27.0  -->  100*27
breadbox: 26.24  -->  82*32
Calvin N Hobbes: 0.0  -->  100*0
Crackfoo: 46.2  -->  30*37 + 30*53 + 30*64
/dev/joe: 60.11  -->  90*18 + 2*53 + 15*53 + 10*61 + 45*64
else...if: 3.0  -->  100*3
fnord: 1.05  -->  1*32 + 2*18 + 93*0 + 1*10 + 1*0 + 1*27
Fortunato: 24.0  -->  100*24
Karma: 0.0  -->  100*0
K 2: 54.0  -->  100*54
Malenkai: 41.87  -->  79*53
Michael Wren: 0.0  -->  100*0
mr cwm: 10.65  -->  2*32 + 1*0 + 94*10 + 5*0 + 1*61
Niccolo Flychuck: 27.7  -->  5*25 + 5*32 + 5*18 + 5*53 + 50*37 + 5*3 + 5*0 + 5*53
norpan: 0.0  -->  100*0
Red Barn: 2.7  -->  90*3
Robert Sevin: 0.95  -->  1*0 + 1*53 + 85*0 + 2*21
rufus: 0.0  -->  100*0
Slakko: 101.0  -->  100*101
The Gingham Wearer: 3.0  -->  100*3
ThinMan: 60.84  -->  5*25 + 10*53 + 89*61
two-star: 30.11  -->  5*0 + 1*18 + 99*27 + 5*64
Voting Gnome: 12.8  -->  20*64
Vynd: 20.58  -->  98*21
Ackers: 0.0  -->  4*0
Chaos: 10.96  -->  11*25 + 2*18 + 5*0 + 2*53 + 5*10 + 17*37
Mr. Lunatic Fringe: 28.14  -->  1*53 + 3*37 + 50*53
Narf: 0.15  -->  5*3
Odo on the Wormhole: 2.5  -->  10*25
RexBank: 15.0  -->  100*15

#award Alfvaen: 21 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Balsamic Dragon: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award breadbox: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Crackfoo: 47 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award /dev/joe: 61 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award else...if: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award fnord: 2 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Fortunato: 24 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award K 2: 54 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Malenkai: 42 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award mr cwm: 11 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Niccolo Flychuck: 28 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Red Barn: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Robert Sevin: 1 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Slakko: 101 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award The Gingham Wearer: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award ThinMan: 61 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award two-star: 31 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Voting Gnome: 13 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Vynd: 21 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Chaos: 11 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Mr. Lunatic Fringe: 29 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Narf: 1 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Odo on the Wormhole: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award RexBank: 15 A$ : dividend Dec 8

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Madonna:Bedtime Stories
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
He's dead, Jim.  Kick him if you don't believe me.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:51:01 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

> > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.

> > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes 
> > to A$2.

> I buy one Bonus Vote for A$2 from /dev/joe's Machine.  (I'd buy more,
> but I have enough trouble figuring out when it's worth using them...
> I did just use the one I got from my first *ping* guess way back in
> May or something, so I might as well replace it.)

Oh, well, it was worth a try.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Madonna:Bedtime Stories
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
"Would you give a man a backhoe who'd killed a man with a forklift?"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:05:35 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Win: Bond Dividends For December 8, 1997

And if Cycle 16 has ended and we are now in Cycle 17, then here are the
bond dividends for the past fortnight(with the reset at the beginning
of Cycle 17):

Score changes used for bond cycle calculation:
- ----------------------------------------------
Ace Rimmer: 0
Alfvaen: 27
Antimatter: 0
Archie Leach: 0
Atilla the Pun: 0
AZTEC GOD: 0
Balsamic Dragon: 27
Ben: 0
breadbox: 32
Calvin N Hobbes: 0
CarsesraC: 0
Chaos: 0
Crackfoo: 38
Darth Vader: 0
/dev/joe: 18
Dread Pirate Roberts: 0
else...if: 3
fnord: 0
Fortunato: 24
Guy Fawkes: 0
ILIOS: 0
K 2: 54
Karma: 0
Malenkai: 34
Michael Wren: 0
mr cwm: 7
Mr. Lunatic Fringe: 0
Niccolo Flychuck: 37
norpan: 0
Onieros: 0
Red Barn: 3
Rex Mundi: 11
Robert Sevin: 0
rufus: 0
Slakko: 80
SonOfWu: 0
The Gingham Wearer: 3
ThinMan: 50
two-star: 27
Voting Gnome: 34
Vynd: 17
Whiz: 0
 
Bond Dividends
- --------------
Alfvaen: 21.83  -->  69*27 + 10*32
Antimatter: 0.0  -->  95*0
Archie Leach: 0.0  -->  100*0
Balsamic Dragon: 27.0  -->  100*27
breadbox: 26.24  -->  82*32
Calvin N Hobbes: 0.0  -->  100*0
Crackfoo: 32.7  -->  30*37 + 30*38 + 30*34
/dev/joe: 42.88  -->  90*18 + 2*34 + 15*38 + 10*50 + 45*34
else...if: 3.0  -->  100*3
fnord: 1.02  -->  1*32 + 2*18 + 93*0 + 1*7 + 1*0 + 1*27
Fortunato: 24.0  -->  100*24
Karma: 0.0  -->  100*0
K 2: 54.0  -->  100*54
Malenkai: 26.86  -->  79*34
Michael Wren: 0.0  -->  100*0
mr cwm: 7.72  -->  2*32 + 1*0 + 94*7 + 5*0 + 1*50
Niccolo Flychuck: 26.1  -->  5*27 + 5*32 + 5*18 + 5*34 + 50*37 + 5*3 + 5*0 + 5*38
norpan: 0.0  -->  100*0
Red Barn: 2.7  -->  90*3
Robert Sevin: 0.68  -->  1*0 + 1*34 + 85*0 + 2*17
rufus: 0.0  -->  100*0
Slakko: 80.0  -->  100*80
The Gingham Wearer: 3.0  -->  100*3
ThinMan: 49.25  -->  5*27 + 10*34 + 89*50
two-star: 28.61  -->  5*0 + 1*18 + 99*27 + 5*34
Voting Gnome: 6.8  -->  20*34
Vynd: 16.66  -->  98*17
Ackers: 0.0  -->  4*0
Chaos: 10.65  -->  11*27 + 2*18 + 5*0 + 2*34 + 5*7 + 17*37
Mr. Lunatic Fringe: 20.45  -->  1*34 + 3*37 + 50*38
Narf: 0.15  -->  5*3
Odo on the Wormhole: 2.7  -->  10*27
RexBank: 11.0  -->  100*11
#award Alfvaen: 22 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Balsamic Dragon: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award breadbox: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Crackfoo: 33 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award /dev/joe: 43 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award else...if: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award fnord: 2 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Fortunato: 24 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award K 2: 54 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Malenkai: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award mr cwm: 8 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Niccolo Flychuck: 27 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Red Barn: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Robert Sevin: 1 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Slakko: 80 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award The Gingham Wearer: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award ThinMan: 50 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award two-star: 29 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Voting Gnome: 7 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Vynd: 17 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Chaos: 11 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Mr. Lunatic Fringe: 21 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Narf: 1 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award Odo on the Wormhole: 3 A$ : dividend Dec 8
#award RexBank: 11 A$ : dividend Dec 8

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Madonna:Bedtime Stories
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
Suffering from hypothermia, the mountains claimed him.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:40:38 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 122

{{The following is the text of Common Sense Report 122 (see Rule 421 for
information on CSRs).  You can thank (or blame) Alfvaen for all of these.
When "" marks are used in the body of this CSR, it is as delimiters and
not actually part of the text they enclose.}}

Amend section VI of Rule 505 by replacing the phrase "of A it" with "of A$
it"

Amend section C. of Rule 1213 by replacing "willbecome" with "will become"

Amend Rule 1240.1 section III. b. by replacing "theRuneMaker" with "the
RuneMaker".  Also, in section III. g. replace "OTzma" with "Otzma"

Rename Rule 520 to "Auction them Entities" {{[rather than Auction then
Entities, although that would be an interesting thing to see...]}}

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 22:41:21 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: On the Lamb

I am taking posession of the little lamb. I am buying a wool sweater and
putting it on. If anyone out there wishes to loan me a vending machine,
I'll promise 50% of all proceeds on Santa's Beards in return, and will
return the vending machine within 7 (three) days. 

Financier: note the 10 A$ cost for lamb feed, 10 A$ for the sweater, and
20A$ court costs for the CFCJ.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:02:08 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 123

{{[Another CSR, once again see Rule 421 for info.  This one is all my
doing]}}

In Rule 594.16, place a double quotation mark immediately before the
first occurance of the word They" in the last paragraph.

In Rule 594.15, replace the word Widget with Frobnotzer.

In Rule 594.1 place an open parenthesis symbol immediately before the
first occurance of the word which.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:17:35 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: ackans (fwd)

I was asked to forward this to acka.
Niccolo Flychuck

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:34:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Bob B. Tyler" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: ackans

pitch
i am hereby inviting the nomic game ackanomic to join the Trout Club in
the Pumpkin Patch Nomic game.
Uri, would you please forward this message to the ackans so they can
decide whehter or not they wish to join
the Trout Club is a group dedicated to typos and other atrocities
rest assured that if Ackanomic desires to join, we will promptly let said
nomic game know that under no circumstances will they be allowed to join,
that in fact it was all a trick to get their hopes up to think that maybe
they will be allowed to play in the harfiest fo all nomic games, when in
fact they are going to be left
hanging on the doorstep wondering why they cant join in any of our
reindeer games
tell them please uri
thank you
bowser
the hound
dog

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:03:37 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, mr cwm wrote:

> I, also.  (Does it matter any more?)

Nup.

I hereby make a new suggestion.
I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
I approve this suggestion.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:04:22 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Cloak

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > I hereby don my Champion's Cloak, but leave to the public's discretion
> > the question of whether or not to address me as 'Exalted One.'
> 
> Well, as far as I can tell you've been wearing your Cloak since the
> entitylog /dev/joe gave me starts, which is to say since at least March
> 23rd.  So this action has no effect.  :-)

Uh uh.  He doffed it to take up the $%@! Shades of Chorg.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:06:46 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> > 
> > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> > to A$2.
> 
> I again buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
> Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.

Sorry, Mal.  As YOU bought the bonus votes, they are immediately destroyed
before you get around to giving them to anyone.  AFAIK.

Nice try though.
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 03:10:05 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Actions

I accept each of Malenkai's offers of a Bonus vote.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:10:57 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Actions

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> > > I am strapping my Bonus Vote Add-On to my vending machine.
> > > 
> > > I am setting the price at which my vending machine vends Bonus Votes
> > > to A$2.
> > 
> > I again buy 4 bonus votes at A$2 each.  I give one each to ThinMan,
> > Vynd, and /dev/joe, pending ack.
> 
> Sorry, Mal.  As YOU bought the bonus votes, they are immediately destroyed
> before you get around to giving them to anyone.  AFAIK.

Apologies.  Geez, Malenkai, put some attributions on your quoting!
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:11:36 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 483 (Slakko)

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> CFJ 483 has been assigned to Slakko.

I accept judgement on this CFJ.
> 
> Clerk of the Courts
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgment 483
>   Subject: Organizational Actions
> Initiator: Malenkai
> Submitted: 97-12-09 21:14
>     Judge: Slakko (selected 97-12-09 21:21)
> Judgement: 
> 
> Statement:
> 
> An Organization may change its name as an Organizational Action.
> 
> Malenkai's Reasoning:
> 
> Not wanting to monopolize the names Pumpkin Patch and
> Pumpkin Patch Nomic assuming someone can fix the rules so
> that they can be used as nomics, I'd like to know the names
> can be changed before investing in organizational powers.
> 
> My current use of these names will not conflict with
> proposal 2473; the entities in that proposal will be
> nameless, as far as I can tell, and may run into the
> problems I presented in argument 3 of CFJ 482, but that
> is another matter (that is why I tried to present all
> those arguments).
> 

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:41:50 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: comments on Malenki's Bronze Torch

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I am new here, so I don't know if this is the way that game state is
> > harfed by custom.  It does seem to me that there is no good reason that
> > the game state can't include the history of the game state.
> 
> I think this CFJ is more interesting than it appears on the surface,
> I guess that's why I did it.
> 
> The game state can only be changed as descibed in the rules.  If
> the history of the game state is part of the game state, then it
> would seem that the rules would have to provide a way to "change"
> that part of the game state that is its history.
> 
> It is a good point that there is no reason that the history of the
> game state *could in theory* be part of the game state; I have
> argued that such is not the case, based on the fact that the 
> rules provide no way to update it.  It may be that a game custom
> argument emerges that claims this history is implicity updated.

The game state must include past game positions (where a game position is
a snapshot of the game state at a given moment in time) or the following
CFJs would have been decided INVALID (as, without a game position to refer
to, they are meaningless statements whose truth or falsity cannot be
determined unambiguously):

CFJ 446
CFJ 455
CFJ 467
CFJ 471
CFJ 472

I think this is sufficient precedent to imply that previous game positions
are included in the game state.  Hence you could well be put away for this
one, Malenkai.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:09:58 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, mr cwm wrote:
> 
> > I, also.  (Does it matter any more?)
> 
> Nup.

Actually, it might.  No member of SPAM has denounced this action, as
Malenkai is no longer a member.  Therefore it can still happen.

> 
> I hereby make a new suggestion.
> I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> I approve this suggestion.

While you're at it though, approve this, just in case.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:19:56 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> 
> I join SPAM, then denounce this action, then leave SPAM :-)
> 
> Malenkai
> sorry, it won't happen again, but loophole surfing
> is just so FUN :)
> 
Right now, no member of SPAM has denounced the action, because Malenkai is
not a member anymore.  The rule says "no member denounces the action".
While at some stage there was a member who had denounced the action, this
is not the case anymore, and hence there is nothing to prevent the action
from still occurring.
- -- 
Duncan "knotted loophole" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:41:42 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 123

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> {{[Another CSR, once again see Rule 421 for info.  This one is all my
> doing]}}
> 
> In Rule 594.16, place a double quotation mark immediately before the
> first occurance of the word They" in the last paragraph.
> 
> In Rule 594.15, replace the word Widget with Frobnotzer.
> 
> In Rule 594.1 place an open parenthesis symbol immediately before the
> first occurance of the word which.
> 

I object to this CSR.  It is possible that other types of Frobnotzer
besides the Pyraic could be created later, turning this into an ambiguous
reference.  I would not object if Widget was replaced with Pyraic
Frobnotzer.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:45:25 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> > > I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> > 
> > I join SPAM, then denounce this action, then leave SPAM :-)
> > 
> > Malenkai
> > sorry, it won't happen again, but loophole surfing
> > is just so FUN :)
> > 
> Right now, no member of SPAM has denounced the action, because Malenkai is
> not a member anymore.  The rule says "no member denounces the action".
> While at some stage there was a member who had denounced the action, this
> is not the case anymore, and hence there is nothing to prevent the action
> from still occurring.

I don't read R1005 this way.  The last sentance of paragraph two says "If
any member denounces the suggestion, it is voided."  I think that should
take effect right then.  I may be wrong.  And Malenki's case is probably
different from the normal though, as he couldn't legally be a member.  The
rule is not too terribly clear.    

> -- 
> Duncan "knotted loophole" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 

- --------
[email-masked]

yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:55:51 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, David Scheidt wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > > > I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> > > 
> > > I join SPAM, then denounce this action, then leave SPAM :-)
> > > 
> > > Malenkai
> > > sorry, it won't happen again, but loophole surfing
> > > is just so FUN :)
> > > 
> > Right now, no member of SPAM has denounced the action, because Malenkai is
> > not a member anymore.  The rule says "no member denounces the action".
> > While at some stage there was a member who had denounced the action, this
> > is not the case anymore, and hence there is nothing to prevent the action
> > from still occurring.
> 
> I don't read R1005 this way.  The last sentance of paragraph two says "If
> any member denounces the suggestion, it is voided."  I think that should
> take effect right then.  I may be wrong.  And Malenki's case is probably
> different from the normal though, as he couldn't legally be a member.  The
> rule is not too terribly clear.    

Sorry, I missed that.  Just as well I restarted the action then.

Actually, he can be a member, it is just a crime to do so.  It's not
impossible, just illegal.

Interestingly, where is "voided" defined?  If a suggestion is voided, what
happens?  Could a voided suggestion still happen?
This is one of those classic Nomic problems - how much of English do you
import into Nomic?

> --------
> [email-masked]
> 
> yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier

I feel sorry for the yak.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:30:13 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: comments on Malenki's Bronze Torch

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, David Scheidt wrote:
> in reflects every state the machine has been in.  They get really big,
> really fast, but are possible.          

REally big, really fast - sound like acka.

> 
> 
> rufus
> 
> 
> 
> - --------
> [email-masked]
> 
> yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:30:16 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, David Scheidt wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:
> > 
> > > Right now, no member of SPAM has denounced the action, because Malenkai is
> > > not a member anymore.  The rule says "no member denounces the action".
> > > While at some stage there was a member who had denounced the action, this
> > > is not the case anymore, and hence there is nothing to prevent the action
> > > from still occurring.
> > 
> > I don't read R1005 this way.  The last sentance of paragraph two says "If
> > any member denounces the suggestion, it is voided."  I think that should
> > take effect right then.  I may be wrong.  And Malenki's case is probably
> > different from the normal though, as he couldn't legally be a member.  The
> > rule is not too terribly clear.    
> 
> Sorry, I missed that.  Just as well I restarted the action then.
> 
> Actually, he can be a member, it is just a crime to do so.  It's not
> impossible, just illegal.

I misremembered the rule.  I had thought it prohibited dual membership,
not just criminalized it.

> 
> Interestingly, where is "voided" defined?  If a suggestion is voided, what
> happens?  Could a voided suggestion still happen?
> This is one of those classic Nomic problems - how much of English do you
> import into Nomic?

Void is used in this sense in at least three other rules (516, on
auctions; 710, on CFCJ; 1080, ad hoc committees).  Perhaps there should be
a rule to the effect that words in the official dictionary have the
meaning in the official dict., unless the rules say otherwise?

- --------
[email-masked]

yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier
Don't worry about the yak. He likes his space.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:26:09 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Complacence

On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> 
> Who wants a Christmas Vacation?  I will give it to you!

Hey! I was the Vacation President!
Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> VOTE Slakko
> VOTE Slakko
> 
> Thank you for your time.
> - --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now ReallyLost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:56:44 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

> Actually, he can be a member, it is just a crime to do so.  It's not
> impossible, just illegal.

Please be careful with the word "illegal".  "Illegal" implies 
breaking the rules, and my action was no such thing; I
never try to break the rules of nomic on purpose :-)

Committing a crime, on the other hand, is simply a change in
the game state, like cating a vote.  (There are *some* crimes
equated with breaking the rules, but not this one).  It is
unfortunate that the English language connotes crime with 
illegality, but in the sense of Ackanomic, it is no such thing.

In no way was this action illegal, nor did it break the rules, AFAIK.

As for Slakko's comments about the previous CFJs, it is always 
possible that we got them wrong.  I'm really not all that sure on
this issue; I wanted to see how it would be judged.  Remember that
game custom may only be used when the rules are 'silent, unclear,
or inconsistent' on the matter.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:01:30 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Suggestions

> >I suggest Vulcan give its Secret Laboratory to
> >Pumpkin Patch Nomic.
> 
> I approve this suggestion.  (2)

And so it is transferred.  If necessary, though, I suggest that
Pumpkin Patch Nomic accept this transfer.  I of approve this 
suggestion.
 
> Moreover, I suggest that the Matress offer its Secret Laboratory
> to Pumpkin Patch Nomic.

I suggest that Pumpkin Patch Nomic accept this gift.  I approve
this suggestion.

I suggest Pumpkin Patch Nomic build a Spell Book of Chorg with
its first Secret Lab.  I approve of this suggestion.

I suggest that Pumpkin Patch Nomic build a Pyriac Frobnotzer with
its second Secret Lab.  I approve of this suggestion.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:07:36 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Suggestions

I believe I mistakenly sent some private messages that should have been
public.  $&%# different mail client.  This phenomenon is one of the reasons
that I was Mr. Lunatic Fringe's evil twin.

I approve of Malenkai's suggestion that Vulcan give its Secret Lab to
Pumpkin Patch Nomic.

I suggest that the Matress offer its Secret Lab to Pumpkin Patch Nomic.

I approve that suggestion.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:13:27 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Suggestions

D'oh :-)

> >I suggest Vulcan give its Secret Laboratory to
> >Pumpkin Patch Nomic.
> 
> I approve this suggestion.  (2)

And so it is transferred.  If necessary, though, I suggest that
Pumpkin Patch Nomic accept this transfer.  I of approve this 
suggestion.
 
> Moreover, I suggest that the Matress offer its Secret Laboratory
> to Pumpkin Patch Nomic.

I suggest that Pumpkin Patch Nomic accept this gift.  I approve
this suggestion.

I suggest Pumpkin Patch Nomic build a Spell Book of Chorg with
its first Secret Lab.  I approve of this suggestion.

I suggest that Pumpkin Patch Nomic build a Pyriac Frobnotzer with
its second Secret Lab.  I approve of this suggestion.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:50:50 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

I approve of this suggestion.

> 
> I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> 
> I approve this suggestion.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> SPAM member
> 
> --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:06:59 -0600
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

I also approve this suggestion.

>----------
>From: 	Duncan Richer[SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, December 10, 1997 2:03 AM
>To: 	Ackanomic Main Mailing List
>Subject: 	Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action
>
>On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, mr cwm wrote:
>
>> I, also.  (Does it matter any more?)
>
>Nup.
>
>I hereby make a new suggestion.
>I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
>I approve this suggestion.
>
>
>--
>Duncan "" Richer aka
>Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
>Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:30:15 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: comments on Malenki's Bronze Torch

> The game state can only be changed as descibed in the rules.  If
> the history of the game state is part of the game state, then it
> would seem that the rules would have to provide a way to "change"
> that part of the game state that is its history.
> 
> It is a good point that there is no reason that the history of the
> game state *could in theory* be part of the game state; I have
> argued that such is not the case, based on the fact that the 
> rules provide no way to update it.  It may be that a game custom
> argument emerges that claims this history is implicity updated.
> 
> Malenkai

Doesn't the rule of no retroactive effect cover this?

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:40:59 -0500
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

Me too, Me too!

Ahem, I approve as well.

Balsamic Dragon

- ----------
> From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
> To: Ackanomic Main Mailing List <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 3:03 AM
> 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, mr cwm wrote:
> 
> > I, also.  (Does it matter any more?)
> 
> Nup.
> 
> I hereby make a new suggestion.
> I suggest that SPAM abandon its open door membership policy.
> I approve this suggestion.
> 
> 
> --
> Duncan "" Richer aka
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:46:08 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Resting In Peace

Okay, I've finally finished harfing the effects of Proposal 2436.  For
the record, it resulted in the destruction of the following undead:

Ackers
AirHead
Ben
CarsesraC
CV1701
fon
G. Peefalt
Jammer
Joon
Lestrade
Ludwig
Narf
Pascal
Strider
Swann
23 Skidoo
Uncle Sam
You can call me Al

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Pinkard & Bowden:Crumbling Stumbleweed
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Dayworld Breakup
A plastic surgeon with a drinking problem raises quite a few eyebrows.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:50:30 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > Actually, he can be a member, it is just a crime to do so.  It's not
> > impossible, just illegal.
> 
> Please be careful with the word "illegal".  "Illegal" implies 
> breaking the rules, and my action was no such thing; I
> never try to break the rules of nomic on purpose :-)

Apology.  I should have said 

It's not impossible, just criminal.

Happy pappy?

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:52:30 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Complacence

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Who wants a Christmas Vacation?  I will give it to you!
> 
> Hey! I was the Vacation President!
> Niccolo Flychuck

Well, then, you know exactly how I feel on the matter.
And with you not nominating this time, someone needs to take up the
pro-vacation banner.

Vote Slakko
- --
Duncan "Vote Slakko" Richer aka 
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:53:56 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: SPAM Suggested Action

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> As for Slakko's comments about the previous CFJs, it is always 
> possible that we got them wrong.  I'm really not all that sure on
> this issue; I wanted to see how it would be judged.  Remember that
> game custom may only be used when the rules are 'silent, unclear,
> or inconsistent' on the matter.

So basically no matter what anyone says about how the issue has been
judged in the past, it will come down to someone's interpretation of the
rules over someone else's, regardless of previous CFJs.

Why CFJ?

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:07:25 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: I chew chew choose it

Today is the 10th of December, the second Wednesday in the month, and I am
chewing the gumball.
It still doesn't have a Spice Girl on the wrapper.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #405
*******************************