Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #397
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Saturday, December 6 1997      Volume 02 : Number 397

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:46:26 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 473 Appeal Verdict

CFJ 473 has been overturned to TRUE with a penalty of 5 points
to the original Judge.  Also note, if you don't have time to read
the reasoning, that it is the Court's opinion that the statement
is true wrt the current game state as well.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgment 473
  Subject: More than Human
Initiator: ThinMan
Submitted: 97-11-20 9:35
    Judge: Red Barn (selected 97-11-20 19:30)
Judgement: FALSE
   Appeal: TRUE

Statement:

Pumpkin Patch Nomic may not become a member of Metamorph.

ThinMan's Reasoning:

The principle rule applicable to this situation is rule 1015 (More Than
Human).  Here is the relevant excerpt:

        "An Organization that has a More Than Human is allowed to have
        non-player Entities as members, provided that said Entities are
        capable of expressing eir consent in the public forum, or that
        the rules allow for some method by which said Entities can
become
        members of Organizations."

First, I claim that neither rule 1015 nor any other rule provides a
method for any non-player entity to become a member of any organization.
They certainly do not provide any means by which a non-Ackanomic entity
may become a member any organization.  Even if R1015 permits such
entities to _be_ members of organizations, there is no means or
provision for them to switch from being non-members to being members.
This in itself is sufficient to indicate a verdict of true.

Second, I also claim that Pumpkin Patch Nomic is unable to express its
consent to the public forum.  A majority or even a consensus of the
players of that nomic might agree that they want the nomic to join
Metamorph, and some representative could post a message to the public
forum on their behalf.  A representative could even claim to speak for
the Nomic.  The Nomic itself, however, is an inanimate collection of
players, rules, customs, and current and past events; the nomic itself
is unable to express anything.  Niccolo implied that the Patch's liaison
to Internomic should be recognized as the voice of the Nomic, but the
Internomic rules have no jurisdiction over Ackanomic internal affairs,
and the Ackanomic rules in no way equate the Patch's internomic
liaison or anyone or anything else with the Patch itself.

If Pumpkin Patch Nomic cannot express its consent to the public forum
and the rules do not allow any method for such an entity to become a
member of an organization, then not only can the Patch not join
Metamorph, but Metamorph is also not empowered to have it as a member.

As an aside, I note here my belief that Ackanomic organizations are
different with regard to expressing consent for the purposes of R1015,
for the rules provide a specific means by which Ackanomic organizations
may perform actions.  PPN is not an Ackanomic organization, however,
thus those rules do not apply to it.

Red Barn's Reasoning:

  I'd be tempted to rule FALSE simply to create the precedent of
interpreting this thusly, but if the rules are clear enough to permit
objective ruling (read: It's not game custom), I'll do so.

  The term Official Reply, capitalized, is moreoreless undefined.  So.
Custom.  FALSE.

Vynd's Appeal Reasoning:

[none]

ThinMan's Bronze Torch Reasoning:

The issue boils down to this:

(1) Rule 101 forbids that the Game State be changed except as
    described in the rules.

(2) The membership of an Organization is an aspect of the Game State,
    thus Pumpkin Patch Nomic becoming a member of Metamorph would
    constitute a change to the Game State.

(3) If Rule 1015 describes that change sufficiently that rule 101 is
    satisfied, then this CFJ should probably be ruled false; otherwise
    it must be ruled true.

It is my firm belief that rule 1015 does not describe any change
whatsoever to the game state.  Others disagree, so the Court must
decide.

I advise the Court that in my opinion, interpreting rule 101 so as to
allow PPN to join Metamorph will greatly weaken the relevant provision
and open the door to a variety of scams of the type once justified
under the auspices of former rule 115.

Supreme Court's Reasoning:

Rule 1003 specifies the methods by which an entity may gain membership
in an Organization:

> Any player may request membership in an Organization. The
> Organization may then grant the request as a public action. When a
> request for membership is granted, the player becomes a member of
> the Organization.
> 
> A player-sanctioned Organization may, as a public action, give a
> particular member the ability to grant any request for membership in
> that Organization, without waiting around for the consent of the
> rest of the members. A player-sanctioned Organization may also, as a
> public action, establish an open admissions policy, which means that
> anyone can join that Organization at any time.

Note the first paragraph applies strictly to player entities, but the
second paragraph is universal. It specifies two methods whereby any
entity may become a member of an Organization. The existence of these
methods therefore satisfy the requirement of Rule 1015. (Note that
Rule 1015 only requires that a method exist whereby the entities may
join an Organization; it does not require that the method be available
specifically for the Organization owning the More Than Human.)

However, one aspect that is common to all methods is that the entity
in question must first request the membership. There is no provision
by which the Organization may take the initiative and offer
membership.

Rule 419.3, which gives other nomics an Ackanomic "voice", states:

> Whenever it is necessary to know a fact about another nomic which is
> a member of Internomic, the Ambassador will send an official query
> requesting the necessary information to the Internomic Liasion of
> that nomic, and forward the reply from that Liasion to
> Ackanomic. Whatever reply is given by the Liaison will be accepted
> as the Official Reply of that nomic.

Does this rule gives Pumpkin Patch Nomic the ability to request
membership? Is it "necessary" to know if they wish to join MetaMorph?
The Court finds that it is not.

If the game state could not be determined without knowing some fact
about another nomic, then knowing that fact would be "necessary". If
the rules requested that the nomic choose between two or more options
(such as with voting), the Court would also be willing to say that it
is "necessary" to know that.

To allow Pumpkin Patch Nomic to request membership, without the rules
calling for such a choice to be made, "necessary" would have to be
interpreted so broadly as to be equivalent to "if the response could
potentially alter the game state". Under such an interpretation, the
Liaison would have to continually poll every Internomic member, to
determine if they wished to request membership in any Organization
owning a More Than Human. For each nomic that said no, the Liaison
would then have to ask them again, since the option would still be
available. Clearly this is an unreasonable interpretation of
"necessary".

As an aside, the Court observes that the recent amendment to Rule 1015
has no effect on any part of this reasoning, meaning that the same
verdict would have been reached with respect to the current game 
state (and PPN is not currently a member of MetaMorph).

As another aside, the Court notes that it is entirely possible
that only Ackanomic Entities are permitted to join organizations 
in the first place.  As this would lead to the same verdict,
it was not explored in any detail; perhaps it will be in another 
CFJ.
   
The Court therefore overturns the original decision. Furthermore, the
Court would like to remind the original judge that CFJs are not
intended to be used as opportunities to turn personal whims into game
custom, and sets a penalty of 5 points.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:08 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: The Gingham Wearer
# Ackanomicon determination
# based on the following (using a 50 sided die):
# 1 -15: arcane trivia
# 16-20: vile prophecies
# 21-25: inner workings
# 26-30: arcane lore
# 31-33: terrorizing pages
# 34-34: ancient artifact
# 35-36: mutation
# 37-38: dark domain
# 39-39: the secret
# 40-41: long lost treasure
# 42-43: doomsday
# 44-44: forbidden fruit
# 45-45: catastrophe
# 46-49: not so forbidden fruit
# 50-50: ancient one
# Malenkai

No. of sides on every die:     50
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     20

Information on the dice server:
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   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
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      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Sat Dec  6 20:12:52 1997
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id UAA05013 for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:12:52 -0800
> Received: from mail.itw.net(206.138.122.6) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma005011; Sat Dec  6 20:12:51 1997
> Received: from itw.com (4-11.SURFER.TIDALWAVE.COM [208.211.4.11]) by mail.itw.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA27744 for <[email-masked]>; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:12:48 -0500
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:12:12 -0500
> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; U)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: f
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 50
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination
> 
> #C Player: The Gingham Wearer
> #C Ackanomicon determination
> #C based on the following (using a 50 sided die):
> #C 1 -15: arcane trivia
> #C 16-20: vile prophecies
> #C 21-25: inner workings
> #C 26-30: arcane lore
> #C 31-33: terrorizing pages
> #C 34-34: ancient artifact
> #C 35-36: mutation
> #C 37-38: dark domain
> #C 39-39: the secret
> #C 40-41: long lost treasure
> #C 42-43: doomsday
> #C 44-44: forbidden fruit
> #C 45-45: catastrophe
> #C 46-49: not so forbidden fruit
> #C 50-50: ancient one
> #C Malenkai

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:19:29 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Judgement Call

Okay, here's an interesting question for y'all, which I may yet submit
as a CFJ.

Malenkai's Proposal 2424 amended Rule 207, which regulates the scoring
of points due to proposals, so by Rule 205 section 5), it does not score
any points.

However, Malenkai also holds the Great Tuba, and Rule 901 states that
"The holder of the Great Tuba scores one extra point whenever one of
his proposals passes."

So, does Malenkai get no points for P2424, or one point, for the Tuba?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pat Benatar:Seven The Hard Way
Current Book--TesseractsQ
Brushing your teeth with a guitar string is a bad idea.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:35:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Saturday Night Actions

I am wearing my shades of chorg, reading page 8 of my spell book of chorg,
in which I find a Paratroop otzma card.

I am selecting h as the Magick Character for Alfvaen's album guessing.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:34:58 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 471 Appeal Verdict

> TRUE was upheld on CFJ 471 with a penalty to the appealer of
> 1 point.

Question: shouldn't this be 25 points, since that's the default
penalty for a frivolous appeal from Rule 217?  Unless I missed
the Judges' specification of an alternate value...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pat Benatar:Seven The Hard Way
Current Book--TesseractsQ
Looking for the road map not taken.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:37:57 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Auction Them Entities

I am calling an Auction them Entities hearing on Beldin's Pants.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pat Benatar:Seven The Hard Way
Current Book--TesseractsQ
I've got my own double-cross to bear

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:35:24 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : suggest MetaMorph action - join Synod

Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> I suggest the following action to be taken by MetaMorph:
> Purchase a Seat in the Synod.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

I denounce this suggestion, given the apparent ineligibility of our
intended delegate by CFJ 473. I might want to have us do this again, if
I take a good look at the synod rule sometime and decide to give it a
go, or if Alfvaen wants to give it a try.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:41:42 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: New Player (me)

And another new player joins the fold of Ackanomia.  A fellow named
David Scheidt, email address [email-masked], who has chosen
the Ackanomic name "rufus".

I have been chosen as eir mentor.

(By the way, I notice that it seems to be nothing more than game
custom that one can only mentor one new player at a time.  Nothing
in the Rules specifies it, though it is implied by the possibility
of "running out" of mentors...)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pat Benatar:Seven The Hard Way
Current Book--TesseractsQ
TO BE OR NOT TO BE!.....What was the question again?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:46:15 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: acka : suggest MetaMorph action - join Synod

> Uri Bruck wrote:
> > I suggest the following action to be taken by MetaMorph:
> > Purchase a Seat in the Synod.

> > Niccolo Flychuck

> I denounce this suggestion, given the apparent ineligibility of our
> intended delegate by CFJ 473. I might want to have us do this again, if
> I take a good look at the synod rule sometime and decide to give it a
> go, or if Alfvaen wants to give it a try.

Nah, I didn't want to be Delegate either, but I didn't necessarily want
to denounce the suggestion right out.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Pat Benatar:Seven The Hard Way
Current Book--TesseractsQ
HEADLESS CORPSE FOUND IN TOPLESS BAR

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:44:59 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction Them Entities

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> I am calling an Auction them Entities hearing on Beldin's Pants.

Yes!  I want to see them removed as last described by the Praetor. (I'm
just a sucker for a good striptease.) Come to think of it, there should
be a Beldin's Pants removal description Web Page.

**two-star

Not an expert on Beldin's Pants, but I play one on TV.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:57:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Judgement Call

Alfvaen asked:
> Okay, here's an interesting question for y'all, which I may yet submit
> as a CFJ.
> 
> Malenkai's Proposal 2424 amended Rule 207, which regulates the scoring
> of points due to proposals, so by Rule 205 section 5), it does not score
> any points.
> 
> However, Malenkai also holds the Great Tuba, and Rule 901 states that
> "The holder of the Great Tuba scores one extra point whenever one of
> his proposals passes."
> 
> So, does Malenkai get no points for P2424, or one point, for the Tuba?

The section of R205 in question reads:
  If a score change is due to a rule or entity (e.g. Magic Potato), and a
  rule change is adopted that affects how that rule or entity causes score
  changes (including, but not limited to, destroying the entity), then no
  score changes are generated by that rule or entity for the adoption of
  the specific rule change in question.

Note that the rule only negates the score changes generated by the 
particular rule or entity.  Therefore only the R207 changes do not occur.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:53:59 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Player (me)

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> And another new player joins the fold of Ackanomia.  A fellow named
> David Scheidt, email address [email-masked], who has chosen
> the Ackanomic name "rufus".
> 
> I have been chosen as eir mentor.
> 
> (By the way, I notice that it seems to be nothing more than game
> custom that one can only mentor one new player at a time.  Nothing
> in the Rules specifies it, though it is implied by the possibility
> of "running out" of mentors...)

So, ah, how did e respond to the market research question?

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:57:58 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 471 Appeal Verdict

Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > TRUE was upheld on CFJ 471 with a penalty to the appealer of
> > 1 point.
> 
> Question: shouldn't this be 25 points, since that's the default
> penalty for a frivolous appeal from Rule 217?  Unless I missed
> the Judges' specification of an alternate value...

Penalty to the appealer of 1 point was in the material sent
to me by the judges.

Clerk of the Courts

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End of ackanomic digest V2 #397
*******************************