Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #382
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Thursday, November 27 1997      Volume 02 : Number 382

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:39:07 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Sorry

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Oh man, lets not go there.  We already had a CFJ on this one, not
> > all that long ago.  It was decided that Rule 102 actually would take
> > precedence, and there was no paradox.  I still have to say that I
> > disagree with that judgement, but there it stands.
> 
> Out of curiosity, can I ask why you reject the reasoning on that CFJ?
> 
> breadbox

Um, it was rather complicated, and I can't really remember all the details
of either your decision or my appeal.  I was, by the way, the one who
appealed the verdict that you eventually upheld, so it shouldn't come as a
suprise to you that I disagree with it.  You could always see my appeal
reasoning in the CFJ archives.  In any event, while I am not really in
agreement with the verdict, I long ago decided I could live with the
results.  Sorry, didn't mean to start a controversy or something.

                                     - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:53:00 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 121

I am using my priv as Speaker to create the
following CSR, consisting of nothing but renumbering.
This rule change will be applied in 3 days unless 
2 players object:

Renumber rule 390, "The Orange Menace", to 1135.

Malenkai
Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:47:47 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: The Iceman Cometh

Two of our icicles have finally passed their sixty-day mark, as of just an
hour or so ago Ackatime, and so Ace Rimmer and Dread Pirate Roberts are
removed from the game.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Gowan:Sixty Second Nightmare
Current Book--Candas Jane Dorsey:Black Wine
And a great whirling and a bashing of keys arose

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:04:08 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 473

I appeal CFJ 473 to the Supreme Court.

                                         - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:12:12 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Subers

First of all, and completely off topic, I would like to say that evne
though I have returned to the family manor in the suburbs of Detroit, I
*will* still be watching for any actions by scurillious Canadians.

Now, about the whole subers thing.  While I can understand why some people
might want to do this, I don't really like the idea much myself.  In the
end, all it woudl really be doing is adding another layer to the rules on
winning the cycle.  True, it would give somewhat more unity to the various
methods of winning the cycle, but I don't think it would really change
things much except to create another set of stuff that we have to track.
I would much rather just renumber all the rules related to winning the
cycle so that they are close together.

                                         - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:34:27 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Subers

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> Now, about the whole subers thing.  While I can understand why some people
> might want to do this, I don't really like the idea much myself.  In the
> end, all it woudl really be doing is adding another layer to the rules on
> winning the cycle.  True, it would give somewhat more unity to the various
> methods of winning the cycle, but I don't think it would really change
> things much except to create another set of stuff that we have to track.
> I would much rather just renumber all the rules related to winning the
> cycle so that they are close together.

For those of you who say "it's just another layer", well you're right.
However, the reason I came up with this rule was that there have been
moves afoot to reform the game winning process somewhat.  Now this can be
done with the rules as they stand, but psychologically there's a lot of
resistance to completely eliminating a winning condition, or to creating a
new one out of thin air.  I was hoping that unifying the system into
Subers would enable us to manipulate the "worth" of various winning
methods, and thereby enable changes to the winning conditions to be less
emotive.  Currently if some game winning check gets boring, or no longer
as fun as it was, we have very little chance of eliminating it from the
ruleset as a win.  However, if it were valued in Subers, it would be much
easier (IMHO) to gradually reduce its Suber value (say over time
20->15->10->5) and thereby change the emphasis of the game.

Alternatively, you could start fiddling with the scores.  However, some of
the score factors have been a part of Acka life for the best part of two
years, and that builds up a lot of inertia.  I felt that a different
system (even one which is just another layer) would be needed in such a
case.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:38:08 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka : That Patch/MetaMorph CFJ

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:

>  
> Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
> 
> >Seems to me like we've arrived at the point of re-iterating the same
> >points in a couple of different ways.
> 
> This may be so.  I guess one wants to allow every opportunity for one's
> debate opponent to see and agree with one's own viewpoint, on the
> assumption that his disagreement may be based on misunderstanding, or
> that
> some restatement will help them "see the light."  I am enjoying certain
> aspects of this discussion, however, so I will continue on those points.

<rest of discussion snipped>

This appears to be one of those classic Acka events, the discussion which
will never get anywhere.  Now there is one solution - the Elmer-Season
proposal (I forget which title I gave it).  It's there, in black and
white, in an attempt to eliminate the possibility for quarrelling over
this situation.  

Can I get both of your support on this?

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:45:43 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> Remember my attempt to enable Scholars to keep the machine of *ping* if
> they went on vacation?  How about this: (not necessarily going to be the
> exact rule text):
> 
> A scholar can select a non-vacationing player to become their Graduate
> Student.  They must pay the Graduate Student A$10 to do so, and the
> Graduate Student must accept the appointment.  If the Scholar goes on
The way I read this the player chosen as graduate student has no option to
refuse.
How about 'provided the player chosen as student accpets the appointment'?

Niccolo Flychuck

> vacation, the machine will only teleport if the Graduate Student is on
> vacation at the same time.  If the Scholar is Vacationing,but the
> Graduate Student is not, the Grad Student has the responsibility of
> sending public messages when the machine goes *ping*.  If the machine is
> lost due to tardiness in these matters, then the Graduate Student must pay
> A$20 to the Scholar.  On selection of a Grad Student, the Scholar sends
> them privately the decoded truth of the machine.  Neither player may
> reveal it to any other player until it becomes publically knowable from
> that point on.
> 
> Suggestions? Comments? Flames?
> 
> - --
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> "Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
> "We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:54:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2405

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> 
> 4) Awarding Subersfor party chess.  Party chess *already* provides too
> much of an award in terms of swingpoints, but at least they are tradeable.
considering the potential rarity of the event (although one can't really
tell given the recently amended rules) I don't think such a reward would
be too much. However I'd rather see more uses for Swingpoints.

> c) I am against more scorekeeping tokens in general.  First we had points.
> Then, at the periodwhen most nomics shed points, we *added* another type
> called A$s.  Then we added swingpoints, followed some time later by 

Swing points are not score keeping tokens. And, being tradeable, like
their controversial predecessors, the Swinger can share them, and
consequently their advantages, with eir benefactors, or trade them for
something.

> processing chips.  Fortunately processing chips have recently been purged.
> My ideal nomic would have 0 scorekeeping tokens, but I think most people
> like points, so mabye we can get it down to 1.  The Suber seems just another
> scorekeeping token in the hopper, going against the trend.  While this
> objection alone would not cause me to vote against the proposal, I thought
> I'd share that with you anyway.
> 
> Malenkai
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:02:00 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Road to Tarak Nor

I accept Slakko as a member. Once this is confirmed by everyone, the Cult
of Odo on the Wormhole can become a Church again.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Duncan Richer wrote:

> I have seen the light.
> 
> I hereby join the Cult of Odo on the Wormhole, if it will let me.
> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> - --
> Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
> Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
> "Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
> "We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:09:06 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka : Slakko - you are challenged to a Duel

Citizen Slakko, I speaker for the honorable Alfvaen who bid me act as a
Second in a Duel. Know then, O Slakko, that on this day, ex ex vee aye aye
- - of the month see aye, of the year em see em el ex see vee aye aye aye -
the honorable Alfvaen, President of Ackanomic, Founder of the Rebelion,
Seeker of the Orange Menace, calls upon you to settle a matter of honor
for having ripped the Gumball out of his mouth, and for profaning the name 
of the Spice Girls.  
Choose your Second Slakko, choose your weapon, and above all Slakko - Fear
Alfvaen.

Niccolo Flychuck
Second to Alfvaen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:18:58 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ad

POSITION VACANT:

Gogetting 20 y.o. Nomicker seeks capable Second for Duel.  All expenses
paid, but no points guarantee.  Contact Slakko, [email-masked]
immediately if not sooner.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:24:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ad

> POSITION VACANT:
> 
> Gogetting 20 y.o. Nomicker seeks capable Second for Duel.  All expenses
> paid, but no points guarantee.  Contact Slakko, [email-masked]
> immediately if not sooner.

I will be your second. If you're willing, reply with the contest you
wish to choose and anything else you'd like to have stated in my
reply.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:45:27 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : Slakko - you are challenged to a Duel

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> Citizen Slakko, I speaker for the honorable Alfvaen who bid me act as a
> Second in a Duel. Know then, O Slakko, that on this day, ex ex vee aye aye
> - of the month see aye, of the year em see em el ex see vee aye aye aye -
> the honorable Alfvaen, President of Ackanomic, Founder of the Rebelion,
> Seeker of the Orange Menace, calls upon you to settle a matter of honor
> for having ripped the Gumball out of his mouth, and for profaning the name 
> of the Spice Girls.  

It appears that our year has one hundred and one months.
Most of all, I fear innumeracy.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:02:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Your Challenge is Accepted

Mr. Flychuck, I would like to inform you that:

a) the current month is eks aye, not see aye;
b) the current year is em cee em eks see vee aye aye, not em see em el
   ex see vee aye aye aye;
c) Slakko is, even as we speak, sitting at home and doing his best to
   follow your advice to "fear Alfvaen", but as it is not a state of
   mind that comes naturally to him, he is having some difficulty: he
   is now attempting to use self-hypnosis to achieve this unique
   attitude, and I for one am hopeful that real progress will be seen
   before the end of the year; and, finally,
d) Slakko has asked me to represent him in this duel which your
   declaration of was the source of the comments to which I have just
   replied, and I have agreed to stand as his Second.

So, let that career politician friend of yours prepare himself for a
game of Single Capture Go. Since this will be a two-player game, the
rules dictate a value of 5 for N. I would suggest also that he procure
a referee willing to be impartial to him.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:47:12 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Spelling Bee

The Spelling Bee is flying!  Here's what it stings:

Rule 210, "Literature":
 Change "plagarism" to "plagiarism".
 Change "ammended" to "amended".
 Change "ammendment" to "amendment".
 Change "ammendments" to "amendments".

Rule 240, "Indiana Jones and the Haunts of the Undead"
 Change "seperate" to "separate".

Rule 303, "Proposal And Rule Numbering"
 Change "privelege" to "privilege".

Rule 315, "Tammany"
 Change "curreny" to "currency".

Rule 346, "Self Deleting Text"
 add a period to the last sentence of the first paragraph

Rule 349, "Aleph Beth Gimel"
 Change "delinated" to "delineated".

Rule 401, "Offices, Commonalities"
 Change "enitity" to "entity".

Rule 419.3, "How are Things Out There"
 Change "Liasion" to "Liaison".

Rule 520, "Auction then Entities"
 Change "calles" to "calls".
 Change "Entitity" to "Entity".

Rule 596, "The Mad Scientist"
 Change "possesion" to "possession".
 Change "whatver" to "whatever".

Rule 597, "The Frankenstein Monster(s)"
 Change "submited" to "submitted".

Rule 710, "Criminal Justice"
 Change "tinkets" to "trinkets".

Rule 719, "Zuriti'ili"
 Change "Zuriri'ili" to "Zuriti'ili".

Rule 835, "Locations"
 Change "explicity" to "explicitly".

Rule 841, "Towers"
 Change "Commitee" to "Committee".

Rule 910, "The Ackanomicon"
 Change "calender" to "calendar".
 Change "irresistably" to "irresistibly".
 Change "stil" to "still".
 Change "tantilizing" to "tantalizing".
 Change "Qualifed" to "Qualified".
 Change "commited" to "committed".
 Change "ammend" to "amend".
 Change "decribe" to "describe".
 Change "occurance" to "occurrence".
 Change "Chartruse" to "Chartreuse".
 Change "possesion" to "possession".

Rule 945, "The Cabinet"
 Change "possesion" to "possession".
 Change "handels" to "handles".
 Change "infinte" to "infinite".
 Change "eccept" to "except".
 Change "durring" to "during".
 Change "whever" to "wherever".
 Change "Comtempt" to "Contempt".

Rule 1001, "Institutions"
 Change "elligible" to "eligible".
 Change "vot" to "vote".

Rule 1040, "Party Hall"
 Change "enity" to "entity".
 Change "Swimger's" to "Swinger's".

Rule 1118, "Dealing with the Paranormal"
 Change "responsiblity" to "responsibility".

Rule 1140, "Unofficial catchphrases"
 Change "elminiated" to "eliminated".

Rule 1209, "The Machine That Goes *ping*"
 Change "announcments" to "announcements".

Rule 1213, "Grab-a-Donkey"
 Change "maintenence" to "maintenance".

Rule 1301, "Church"
 Change "ceasea" to "ceases".
 Change "transfomred" to "transformed".
 Change "inot" to "into".

Rule 1303, "Synod"
 Change "anounced" to "announced".

Rule 1320, "This is the way the world ends"
 Change "recieve" to "receive".

Rule 594.2, "Blueprint: The Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really"
 Change "rechargable" to "rechargeable".

Rule 594.6, "Blueprint: Gravitational Monopole"
 Change "enscription" to "inscription".

Rule 594.7, "Blueprint: Evil Ballot Stuffer"
 Change "throught" to "throughout".

Rule 594.8, "Blueprint: Jukkasjarvi Mind Control Laser"
 Change "amd" to "and".

Rule 594.9, "Blueprint: Spell Book of Chorg"
 Change "transferrance" to "transference".

Rule 1230.2, "Swingers Like to Play Around II - Let's play"
 Change "Privelege" to "Privilege".
 Add a period to the third paragraph of section 6.
 Add a period to the end of section 6.C.

Rule 1240.1, "Definition of Otzma Cards"
 Add a period to I.1.
 Change "Probablistic" to "Probabilistic".
 Change "probabilites" to "probabilities".
 Change "selcets" to "selects".
 Change "beng" to "being".
 Change "creting" to "creating".
 Add a period to III.5.f.
 Add a period to IV.1.

Rule 1240.7, "Otzma Card of type Share your Income"
 Add a period to end of first paragraph

Rule 1240.9, "Otzma Card of type Tactical Retreat"
 Add a period to 1.

Rule 1250.10, "Fictionary"
 Change "defintion" to "definition".

Rule 1250.14, "Diplomacy"
 Change "athough" to "although".

Rule 1250.17, "Mediocrity"
 Change "Hofsteader" to "Hofstadter".
 Change "insance" to "instance".
 Change "Medicrity" to "Mediocrity".
 Change "Medicore" to "Mediocre".
 Change "einteger" to "integer".
 Change "fromt" to "from".

Rule 1250.18, "Ye Olde Rusty Lantern"

 Change "prophesy" to "prophecy".

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Rolling Stones:Get Off of My Cloud
Current Book--Candas Jane Dorsey:Black Wine
Geg me-a veet a SPOOOON!  Leeke-a, Bork Bork Bork!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:13:14 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Public Action

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> > I hereby retract my offer to purchase a Whamiol from Crackfoo.
> 
> > Sorry, no dice.
> 
> > (At least, not until I'm sure of the worth of the Whamiol).
> 
> What, you read the bit about how it scores less if other new players became
> active recently?  :-)

I knew that (sounding very mysterious).

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:49:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposal 2414

Proposal 2414
Two letter names
K 2 (Kelly Kelly)

This is a Grandiose proposal.

{{ Anyone who doesnt thinks so should be tarred and feathered. }}

Amend the 2nd sentence in the 1st paragraph of Rule 251.

In that paragraph, replace 'three' with 'two'.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:03:07 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Seen a good movie lately?

Some films to consider watching this weekend:

JFK
Batman Forever
The Doors
French Kiss

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:18:33 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Spelling Bee

> Rule 1250.18, "Ye Olde Rusty Lantern"
> 
>  Change "prophesy" to "prophecy".

"prophesy" is in OSPD.  I didn't check the others,
but noticed this one because I personally prefer
the current spelling and it stuck out.

Is there a way to use the official dictionaries 
to verify the spelling check?

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:31:48 -0700
From: "Aaron V. Humphrey" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Prophesy

[Malenkai wonders if replacing "prophesy" by "prophecy" in
the YORL rules is kosher under the Spelling Bee rule...]

I made sure to check the spellings more carefully this time,
but I also call attention to Rule 342, 5a), c): "Replacing
correctly spelled words with the word that was intended."

If you go to your Funk & Wagnall's, or its logical equivalent,
you will note that "prophesy" is a verb, and "prophecy" is a
noun.  Perhaps I should've provided more context, but I was
rushed for time(though if breadbox would like more, I could
certainly provide it).  In this case, in the paragraph introducing
the concept of "Loose Ends", there is the clause "a prophesy
is made".  This is like saying "a predict is made", and being
ungrammatical, obviously "prophecy" was the word that was
intended.

There may be a few others of this sort too, which I considered
carefully before including.  Mostly these are the kind I don't
catch because spell-checkers don't turn them up...:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen (Web page:http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/)
Song In My Head--U2:Two Hearts Beat As One
Current Book--Candas Jane Dorsey:Black Wine
Palindromic taglines are not on erase nilgatci mordnilap!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:42:30 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Prophesy

> If you go to your Funk & Wagnall's, or its logical equivalent,
> you will note that "prophesy" is a verb, and "prophecy" is a
> noun. 

Well I'll be.  I didn't know that.

Malenkai
who is lucky to affect and effect right

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:49:00 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Shorter Cycles

I accept Alfvaen's gift of the Parka if I don't
already have it.

I amend rule 940, "Beldin's Pants" to replace "trinket"
with "win" where it appears in the final sentence.

Malenkai
hoping the supreme court has plenty of free time :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:59:12 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Public Action

I hereby create a Trinket known as "win", with the following description
delimited by BLOCK:

BLOCK
It looks exactly like a miniature Badge of Glory, except that it is
encased in lucite, and a small sign on the back says "Made in Thring."
BLOCK

The value of "win" is A$5.

- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:00:17 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFCJ 146 (CnH)

This has been assigned to CnH.

Clerk of the Courts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Criminal Judgment 146
  Subject: Vacation
Initiator: Slakko
Submitted: 97-11-22 14:20
    Judge: mr cwm (selected 97-11-24 20:03)
2nd Judge: Calvin N Hobbes (selected 97-11-27 11:59)
Judgement: 

Statement:

Karma has committed a Crime.

Slakko's Reasoning:

In a public message dated after 11pm Acka Time on Thursday 20th November,
Karma was put on vacation under Rule 257.  In a public message dated
before midday Acka Time on Saturday 20th November, Karma attempted to
remove emself from Vacation.  This e cannot do under Rule 255.  Hence e
attempted an impermissible action, and thus committed a Crime.  Also, this
implies that Karma is still on vacation.

Suggested Penalty:

TRANSFERENCE of $20 to Slakko (to cover court cost).
A PUBLIC APOLOGY of 1 line precisely.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:01:50 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Fat Lady

The Fat Lady is singing.
The Fat Lady is singing.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:06:07 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> The Fat Lady is singing.
> The Fat Lady is singing.

Depends on your definition of "win".  Check your email.
She might have a trinket stuck in her throat.

Yours,
Slakko the possibly-38-seconds-too-quick-for-Malenkai
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:13:23 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

> > The Fat Lady is singing.
> > The Fat Lady is singing.
> 
> Depends on your definition of "win".  Check your email.
> She might have a trinket stuck in her throat.

I saw that.  This sort of thing has come up before,
though; the CFJ archives provide some interesting
reading.

More interesting, at least to me, is the silmulaneous
win thing.

Malenkai
co-winner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:17:12 -0700
From: "Aaron V. Humphrey" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Win

I believe that CFJ's from the time of the Vulcan coup show
that the creation of an entity whose name happens to occur in
an existing Rule does not cause that Rule to suddenly refer to
that Entity.  I had created an organization called "The organization
Vulcan", and claimed that this organization could exercise the
powers in then-Rule 1(which you can find on the Senate Resolutions
page), which included that phrase.

So the creation of a trinket called "win" won't change the meaning of
"win" in any rules created before it.  Furthermore, you might be guilty
of Copyright Infringement, and I urge the law-abiding members of SPAM
to investigate this matter right away.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen (Web page:http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/)
Song In My Head--U2:Two Hearts Beat As One
Current Book--Candas Jane Dorsey:Black Wine
She wrote a long letter...on a short piece of paper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:20:24 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > > The Fat Lady is singing.
> > > The Fat Lady is singing.
> > 
> > Depends on your definition of "win".  Check your email.
> > She might have a trinket stuck in her throat.
> 
> I saw that.  This sort of thing has come up before,
> though; the CFJ archives provide some interesting
> reading.
> 
> More interesting, at least to me, is the silmulaneous
> win thing.

Well, technically none of you get the title of Winner, or a Champion's
Cloak, under Rule 666.  It says the Winner, not a Winner.  Therefore the
title dispensation and cloak giving can only be done with a single winner.
Not sure about the rest though.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:25:27 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Win

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> I believe that CFJ's from the time of the Vulcan coup show
> that the creation of an entity whose name happens to occur in
> an existing Rule does not cause that Rule to suddenly refer to
> that Entity.  I had created an organization called "The organization
> Vulcan", and claimed that this organization could exercise the
> powers in then-Rule 1(which you can find on the Senate Resolutions
> page), which included that phrase.
> 
> So the creation of a trinket called "win" won't change the meaning of
> "win" in any rules created before it.  Furthermore, you might be guilty
> of Copyright Infringement, and I urge the law-abiding members of SPAM
> to investigate this matter right away.  :-)

Well, it may now change the meaning of win.  But what is the meaning of
win in Beldin's Pants?  Is it win a Cycle, is it win a game of
Grab-a-Donkey, is it win a game of Party Chess, is it win a Duel, is it
win a Title?
Out of all the possible options, how can it be that winning a Cycle is the
only reasonable interpretation?

Prepare to be CFJed, duel-buddy.

- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:41:33 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Bronze Torch

I am invoking my privilege as a Bronze Torch holder to append the
following reasoning to CFJ 473:

- --
The issue boils down to this:

(1) Rule 101 forbids that the Game State be changed except as
    described in the rules.

(2) The membership of an Organization is an aspect of the Game State,
    thus Pumpkin Patch Nomic becoming a member of Metamorph would
    constitute a change to the Game State.

(3) If Rule 1015 describes that change sufficiently that rule 101 is
    satisfied, then this CFJ should probably be ruled false; otherwise
    it must be ruled true.

It is my firm belief that rule 1015 does not describe any change
whatsoever to the game state.  Others disagree, so the Court must
decide.

I advise the Court that in my opinion, interpreting rule 101 so as to
allow PPN to join Metamorph will greatly weaken the relevant provision
and open the door to a variety of scams of the type once justified
under the auspices of former rule 115.

- --

I am now exercising my option as a Justice to decline to judge the
appeal of CFJ 473.

ThinMan
Bronze Torch Holder
Justice

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:03:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

> The Fat Lady is singing.
> The Fat Lady is singing.
> 
> Malenkai

What I wanna know is if you planned this to happen on Thanksgiving.

breadbox
running for the bus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:22:58 -0800
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposal 2417

I like it, but...

"If the owner of this card, when it is played, does not possess a Shovel
of some description[that is, an entity with the word "Shovel" in its
name], then the card has no effect."

The problem is that the text in square brackets has no game effect,
therefore the proposed rule would work as if it were not there. If I
recall a particular military laser incident correctly, this means that
it would not work as you intend. Normal parentheses work wonders in this
sort of situation.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:25:35 -0700
From: "Aaron V. Humphrey" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

breadbox asks:
> What I wanna know is if you planned this to happen on Thanksgiving.

As far as I can tell, Malenkai was waiting to become Beldin's Tailor
to pull this one, which is why this week, and the Beldin's Pants rule
specifies Thursday, so that meant today...

- --
- --Alfvaen (Web page:http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/)
Song In My Head--Jimi Hendrix:Purple Haze
Current Book--Candas Jane Dorsey:Black Wine
I drink blood because it's the only life I have.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:23:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Prophesy

> If you go to your Funk & Wagnall's, or its logical equivalent,
> you will note that "prophesy" is a verb, and "prophecy" is a
> noun.

True, but my Merriam-Webster's 10th Collegiate lists "prophesy" as
an alternate spelling of the noun, as well.

/dev/joe
not wearing a Silly Agenda Hat

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:14:23 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: NoWin: Denotational

My personal belief is that the term win in Beldin's Pants cannot
unambiguously be interpreted as implying win a Cycle of Ackanomic.
Therefore I am posting this on the NoWin thread.  Anyone else who believes
that the game has not been won, I would suggest (but what do I know, I'm
only the second most recent active player) should include some note in
their Subject: lines to indicate this.

Yours,
Slakko
- --
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University
"Begone, fools, and give me the bird."
"We'd love to, but the Fox censors won't allow it."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:23:08 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2408

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > > Repeal rule 305, "For Personal Glory..."
> > > Repeal rule 307, "Revision Numbers"
> > 
> > I'm flabbergasted.  Do you want future Ackanomians to grow up with NO
> > sense of tradition?
> 
> Well, the same argument could be made about re-orging the
> winningrules :)  I would like current Ackanomians to grow up
> with a ruleset that is 40% smaller.  Repealing old, stale rules
> is very difficult in this game, but it is worth a try.  Both
> revision numbers and authorship credit are maintained in the
> new rule, but it is a little more flexible.
> 
> We will end up keeping many, many, many traditional rules.  Can't 
> we trim a wee bit of the fat? :-)
> 
> Malenkai

The Painless Repeal Otzma Card would have made it easier, but y'all voted
against it.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:27:27 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC "The Red Tape Proposals"

I read through those proposals, and I don't understand them.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, K2 wrote:

> - --------------8A36AA3C92BC62459D6E08D6
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Having submitted a couple of short foolish grandiose proposals (these
> don't appear to be mutually exclusive!), I thought it time to submit
> some more substantial proposals.
> 
> I intend (pending comment) to submit the following proposals (delimited
> by these bar thingies)
> 
> pls let me know how useless and stupid :) , or otherwise, they r
> 
> The land of Ackranomia [sounds like a disease:) ], is desperately short
> of Red Tape and Bureaucrats [plenty of lawyers though : ) ], the
> following rules are intended to rectify this desperate situation.
> 
> K2
> 
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>          Proposal #1: Red Tape Application Form Proposal
> 
> Create a rule titled "Red Tape Application Form Proposal", that reads as
> follows :
> 
> "Red Tape Application Form Proposals" [RTAFPs] are unownable named
> entities.
> 
>    1    Each RTAFP [singular of RTAFPs] outlines a unique type of "Red
>    Tape Application Form" [RTAF].
> 
>    2    In order to be considered a valid a RTAFP must conform to the
>    following:
>       o be a list of Questions and an optional list of Special
>         Submission Requirements [SSR] [e.g.: must be submitted while
>         bending over backwards and holding a right-handed grapefruit
>         in the left hand].
>       o actions required by the SSR list must be performed in the
>         public arena.
>     o the Questions must require at least 20 different pieces of
>         information.
>       o the required information should be of highly obscure personal
>         nature [with regards to the Ackranomic entity filling out the
>         form. For example: grandmother's second cousin's inside leg
>         measurement or the colour of the second to last prosthetic
>         forehead worn during the last twenty full moons.]
>       o Ambiguity in the questions is encouraged.
> 
>    3    If at any time a RTAFP requires actions which are impossible
>    to perform [e.g. a player is required to hold a right handed grape
>    fruit, but no such entity exists] then the RTAFP is given a gold
>    star [if such an entity exists] and is sent Else Where.
> 
>    4    A RTAFP may  be authored under the following conditions:
>       o If the office of MB exists and is occupied then :
>            + Only the Mad Bureaucrat may author RTAFPs as a privilege
>              of that office, otherwise,
>     o If the office of MB exists but is unoccupied then :
>            + Any player who has nominated themselves for the office of
>              Mad Bureaucrat may author RTAFPs.
> 
>    5    It is a crime to unlawfully [i.e. contra to the rules] author
>    an RTAFP.
> 
>    6    RTAFPs are created in the following manner, or the creation
>    attempt fails :
>       o by posting their name and text and labelling them as such.
>       o At least 3/4 of the questions defined for the proposed RTAF
>         must require different information,
>       o The RTAFP, as it is posted, must be valid [See section 2].
>       o A unique and legal name must be specified.
> 
>    7    The RTAFP is said to be authored by the player that posted its
>    text.
> 
>    8    RTAFPs are authorized 7 working days [if such an entity
>    exists], otherwise 7 days, after their creation, assuming they are
>    valid.
> 
>    9    When a RTAFP becomes authorized:
>       o a new rule is created, as a member of this suite, with the
>         title "RTAFO: <name>" where:
>       o RTAFO stands for "Red Tape Application Form Outline" and
>         <name> is the name the RTAFP.
>       o The RTAFP is then destroyed.
> 
>    10    If at any time a RTAFO requires actions which are impossible
>    to perform [e.g. a player is required to hold a right handed grape
>    fruit, but no such entity exists] then the RTAFO is given a gold
>    star [if such an entity exists] and repealed.
> 
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                Proposal #2: Red Tape Application Forms
> 
> Create a rule titled "Red Tape Application Forms", that reads as follows
> :
> 
>    1    "Red Tape Application Forms" [RTAFs] are unownable entities.
> 
>    2    Any player may create an RTAF [singular of RTAFs] provided
>    that:
>       o The office of "Mad Bureaucrat" [MB] exists and is occupied.
>       o There is an existing "Red Tape Application Form Outline"
>         [RTAFO] that outlines the RTAF.
>       o They post the name of the RTAFO and information required by
>         the RTAF to the MB.
> 
>    3    The act of creating a RTAF is termed 'filling in'.
> 
>    4    Once a RTAF has been filled in [i.e. created] and has been
>   determined to be valid and been accepted [as defined by its RTAFO]
>    by the MB [the MB is said to have 'processed' the RTAF]:
>       o     a piece of RT is created and given to the player who
>         filled in the RTAF.
>       o     At the moment of RT creation the RTAF is filed and goes
>         Somewhere Else.
>    5    Two RTAF are different if they were created from different
>    RTAFO.
> 
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                       Proposal #3: Red Tape
> 
> Create a Rule, titled "Red Tape", that reads as follows:
> 
> 
>    1    There exists a group of  nontradeable, ownable, mimsy entities
>    collectively known as "Red Tape" [RT] possessing the following
>    qualities :
>       o All RT is totally useless, except as outlined in this rule.
>       o RT may only be obtained from the "Mad Bureaucrat" [MB]
>         according to the rules.
>       o Two pieces of RT are of different type provided that the "Red
>       Tape Application Forms" [RTAFs] used to create them were
>         different.
>       o No player may own more than one piece of each type of RT. the
>         duplicate piece of RT, already in the player's possession is
>         destroyed, just prior to the receipt of the new piece of RT.
> 
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                      Proposal #4: Mad Bureaucrat
> 
> Create a rule "Mad Bureaucrat", that reads as follows :
> 
> 
>    1    There exists an optional political office called the "Mad
>    Bureaucrat" [MB] for which there exists one seat.
> 
>    2    The following steps must be followed in order to become the
>    MB:
>       o If the office of MB is not currently filled :
>          + A player may nominate themselves by posting a public
>              notice stating intent to be considered for the office of
>              MB.
>            + The three days after posting of the first nomination
>              [since the seat of the MB last became vacant] is known as
>              the campaign time.
>            + "Red Tape Application Form Proposals" [RTAFPs] submitted
>              during the current campaign time by nominees are refereed
>              to as Campaign RTAFPs [CRTAFPs].
>            + At least one CRTAFP should be submitted by each nominee,
>              according to the rules.
>            + Any nominee failing to submit at least one CRTAFP is
>              automatically disqualified from the selection process.
>            + If only one nominee remains, that player assumes the
>              office of MB.
>            + If more than one nominee remains, the nominee who has
>              submitted the most CRTAFPs shall assume the office of MB.
>            + In the event of a tie [for number of submitted CRTAFPs],
>              a vote shall be held to determine which of the CRTAFPs
>              submitted by the tied nominees, details the most useless,
>              vague and cumbersome RTAF, requiring the most obscure
>              knowledge.
>            + The author of the CRTAFP which gains the most votes, upon
>              the results of the vote being made publicly known,
>              assumes the office of MB.
> 
>     o If the office of MB is currently filled:
>            + and the current MB has held office for more than one
>              month
>            + a player, in possession of at least as much RT as the
>              current MB and more than 0 piece,may initiate a
>              "Political Back Stab" [PBS].
>            + a Political Back Stab is initiated by publicly posting an
>              action to that effect. The MB is then removed from
>              office. The former MB is permitted tomake gurgling,
>              thrashing sounds in response to the PBS.
>            + Within 24 hr of completing a Political Back Stab, the
>              player, who initiated it MUST nominate themselves for the
>              office of MB and submit a CRTAFP, the nomination and
>              selection procedure then proceed as for a vacant MB seat.
>            + Failure to do so is an 'Unfair Dismissal'.
>                 + An Unfair Dismissal is a Crime.
>                 + The former MB should initiate a CFCJ in the event of
>                   an Unfair Dismissal, upon a verdict of TRUE the
>                   former MB is paid A$20 damages from the Treasury and
>                   may resume the office.
>            + The former MB iseligible for nomination.
> 
>    3    The Duties of the MB are as follows :
>       o Maintain a list of what types of RT each player is in
>         possession of and make it available upon request.
>       o Receive completed [filled in] "Red Tape Application Forms"
>         [RTAF] submissions and resubmissions for a fee of up to A$5.
>       o Determining the validity of an RTAF submitted by a player as
>         defined by the corresponding "Red Tape Application Form
>         Outline" [RTAFO].
>       o Return invalid RTAFs, stamped with "Incorrect. Resubmit.". No
>         reason or refund need be given.
>       o Each otherwise valid RTAF submitted may be returned to the
>         player who filled it in once, for some silly minor technical
>         error.
> 
>    4    The Privileges of the MB are as follows:
>       o Author "Red Tape Application From Proposals" RTAFPs.
>       o Receive a processing fee of up to A$5 from the player for each
>         RTAF submission or resubmission. The MB does not receive any
>         other form of payment for fulfilling the Duties of the office.
>       o To be affectionately referred to as either a "Desk Jockey" or
>         a "Paper Pusher".
> 

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #382
*******************************