Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #321
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest      Tuesday, September 30 1997      Volume 02 : Number 321

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:12:56 -0400
From: Dice Server <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: SBoC Random OC determination

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Player: /dev/joe
# I am using the dice server to determine the random otzma card
# delivered from the spell book of chorg based on the following
# schedule:
# 1 - go fish
# 2 - map shard
# 3 - untouch me
# 4 - share my expenses
# 5 - share my income
# 6 - swinging sale
# 7 - tactical retreat
# 8 - paratroop
# 9 - foul fowl
# 10 - truthseeker
# 11 - fix my gadget
# 12 - scientist for a day
# 13 - art thief
# 14 - skeleton key

No. of sides on every die:     14
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

      9

Information on the dice server:
   DO NOT REPLY TO THIS SAUSAGE!
   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is provided by:

      Shadow Island Games
      http://www.pbm.com/ds.html

Original message follows:
> From [email-masked]  Mon Sep 29 21:07:37 1997
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com
>       id VAA29916 for <[email-masked]>; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:07:37 -0700
> Received: from mail.itw.net(206.138.122.6) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma029910; Mon Sep 29 21:07:35 1997
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> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:05:47 -0400
> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; U)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: d
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> #P [email-masked]
> #S 14
> #D 1
> #R 1
> #L 1
> #T Acka: SBoC Random OC determination
> 
> #C Player: /dev/joe
> #C I am using the dice server to determine the random otzma card
> #C delivered from the spell book of chorg based on the following
> #C schedule:
> #C 1 - go fish
> #C 2 - map shard
> #C 3 - untouch me
> #C 4 - share my expenses
> #C 5 - share my income
> #C 6 - swinging sale
> #C 7 - tactical retreat
> #C 8 - paratroop
> #C 9 - foul fowl
> #C 10 - truthseeker
> #C 11 - fix my gadget
> #C 12 - scientist for a day
> #C 13 - art thief
> #C 14 - skeleton key

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.7

UiF+gJStU=qMBzFS+UP+BVuIPs+B+RVbMJgJFe+QvCMjD=nFTtBHf=UiBU+DIbOHfT
uIF+HBnF+tUBuF,+BT=KVeHFe+Cz+Nf+(fH,+QSpQPtBM,=JQ,=DGK,+ZPSM+QMbZ,
FUd),tIBmM+gJOe=UiF=QBSlB.+B+rVBmJGjFE+NFtTBhF+jTPoF+uIBu+DpOUbJOt
UiF+xPSe="tFWfO"=JO+BOz+Pg+UiF+uIFtF=mBOhVBhFT:+FvTLbSB,=BmCBoJBo,
XFMtI,+PS=MJuVBoJBo.
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:22:16 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: BWG

look to Saaremaa
where it can get very cold
for a warm garment

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:49:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Senate

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> The following have volunteered for the two open senate seats.
> Each player gets one vote; the top two vote-getters get a seat.
> 
> Voting lasts for 3 days.
> 
> Balsamic Dragon
> mr cwm
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 

I would much appreciate it if the candidates could appraise us of their
stance on harf, BWG, the Orange Menace, and Acka in general.

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:51:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Haiku on the occasion of the Senate elections

     The only problem
with Haiku is that you just
   get started and then

               - Author unknown

Robert "Harlot of Haiku" Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:24:12 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CPI

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> I am also going to propose a total nuking of all this institutional 
> stuff sometime, to be replaced by simple hearings.  It is clear to me
> that it simply does not work, and I'm not surethe contempt is even
> being handled by the gaoler, financier, and other harfers.
> 
> Malenkai
> Ambassador

Do you mean Institutions in general or just for Internomic voting?
For the latter, I think it in excellent idea. For the rest of the
Institutions, I think they should be dealt with on a case by case basis,
and considering Organizations as well. Some Institutions have a lot of
extra baggage.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:37:49 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CPI

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> Well, I was under the impression that we had two weeks to vote on
> Internomic proposals.  This is the voting period as defined in Internomic
> itself, however, so I guess it probably doesn't hold sway here.  What *is*
> the voting period for an Internomic proposal here then?  Where is it
> defined in the rules?  I think you are right that those of us who didn't
> vote will bein Contempt, so we need to figure out who voted before the
> deadline.  If, by chance, I am correct that we have two weeks, then we
> still have until the 1st of October by my count.

Institutions must vote within a week. 

> 
> I agree that Institutions do not workvery well.  Even the PCI, which was

With good reason. For along time players insisted on handing power to the
Senate until it blew up in their faces, instead of dividng up the roles
among  various Institutions. Maybe that concept really needs a larger
population to work.

 > conceived as an organization that only people who were genuinely
> interested in voting on INPs would join, seems to suffer from a great deal
> of apathy.  Indeed, while I am not sure I would want to go so far as
> removing Institutions entirely, I would very much like to see this joint
> PCI/Senate thing go away.  The PCI has been in effect for, what, two
> months, and has only attracted 3 members.  Perhaps Acka should consider
> removing itself from Internomic entirely ifintrest in it is so low.  

This was one of my arguments in the previous Internomic interface debate. 

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:43:42 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka : Financier

A couple of days ago I anounced I was transferring some property to the
Church of Odo. Unfortunately I no longer have a list of items it
originally transffered to me. If that makes the transfer not happen, then
I'll post a list of items (not necessarily the same ones that were
originally owned by the church, byut I shall make a good faith attempt to
return to it what is its due)

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:50:44 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Contempt

I also choose to pay the $100 fine.

As for who is affected - anyone who was a member of at least one of the
Institutions at the end of the voting period ( so the fact that I was on
vacation when this vote was initiated, does not save me) - I suppose in a
c ase where some is replaced by an acting officer, e would have been
briefed by the acting officer

Niccolo Flychuck

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> Well.  By my reading of Rule 1001, all members of PCI and the Senate as
> of, um, sometime on Sept 27th are in contempt.  I'm afraid I don't have
> the exact time that the voting period began.  I am sure, however, that it
> was on the 17th.  We thus had until the 24th to conduct the vote, and the
> 27th to report it.  When the vote was not reported on Sept 27th, all
> current memebers of the Senate and PCI were placed in contempt.  This
> might include ThinMan, I honestly don't know.  The Contempt rule doesn't
> really explain how one beomces "held in contempt."  Rule 1001 seems to
> have "placed" us in Contempt when our reporting dealine ran out on the
> 27th.  I am not really sure if this is the same thing, or if there are
> supposed to be CFCJs or something on the matter.  If it is the same thing,
> then we have the 3 days after our deadline ran out to choose to either pay
> A$100 or go to Gaol, two days of which have already passed.  I am
> declaring hearby choosing to pay A$100 rather than go to Gaol.
> 
> 
> 
>                           - Senator Vynd
> 
> [email-masked]
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:56:20 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2313

I support this proposal.

I think the text about results being inconclusive is a tad too ambigous
for my taste, but it's consistent with the hearings rule, so it would do.

Niccolo Flychuck

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> Proposal 2313
> Simplified Internomic Interface
> Malenkai (Randy Hall)
> 
> This is a Modest proposal.
> 
> {{[Gist: does not change the current functionalty that any player is
> permitted to vote on an Internomic matter, and that the prez breaks ties,
> and that no quorum is required.  Does remove the requirement to track
> membership of the PCI, does remove the annoying comtempt result and the
> requirememt for several harfers to track its effects, and does remove the
> annoying procedure that no one can seem to remember or get right.  In
> short, same functionality, simpler implementation.
> 
> Also, makes the attitude change a simple proposal rather than a 60%
> vote of the PCI + senate.  More simplification.
> ]}}
> 
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I.  Amend rule 419.2, "Internomic Interface", as follows:
> 
> A. Change the body of section III to read:
> 
> "
> Whenever Ackanomic is permitted to vote upon any matter in Internomic, the
> Liaison shall initiate a binding Hearing to determine how e should cast 
> Ackanomic's vote in Internomic. The valid responses in this Hearing shall be
> the valid votes the Liaison may cast on the matter in Internomic.  This 
> Hearing shall have a voting period of 7 days, and in the case where the 
> results are inconclusive, the President shall, as a public action, decide how 
> the Liaison casts Ackanomic's vote.
> "
> 
> B. Change the body of section V to read:
> 
> "
> The Attitude of Ackanomic toward any other member nomic of InterNomic shall be
> changed as directed by the Rules of Ackanomic, and in no other circumstances.
> [in other words, it shall be  changed when a proposal is accepted that contains
> a rule change directing such a change of attitude].
> "
> 
> C. Remove section VI [This is thePCI section].
> 
> - ---
> 
> II.  Amend rule 360, "Hearings", to replace:
> 
> "
> The Hearing shall end when it has been in session for three days. When it ends,
> it ceases to be in session. 
> 
> Once a Hearing has ended, it has a verdict. The verdict of the Hearing is 
> whichever valid response was given by the most Players, and other entities
> capable of voting in hearings, in response to the Hearing, if exactly one 
> valid response holds this distinction. Otherwise, if there is a tie among 
> two or more responses, the verdict shall be whichever of the tied responses 
> appears first in the Rule defining them. If no responses were received while 
> theHearing was in session, the verdict shall be "Never mind." Count Tabula has
> the Duty of announcing the verdicts of Hearings with all due haste. 
> "
> 
> with:
> 
> "
> The Hearing shall end when it has been in session for three days, unless 
> another rule defines a longer period of time for a particular Hearing.
> When it ends, it ceases to be in session. 
> 
> Once a Hearing has ended, it has a verdict. The verdict of the Hearing is 
> whichever valid response was given by the most Players, and other entities
> capable of voting in hearings, in response to the Hearing, if exactly one 
> valid response holds this distinction. Otherwise, if there is a tie among 
> two or more responses, or there were no responses, the result of the Hearing
> is said to be inconclusive.
> 
> When the results of a Hearing are inconclusive, the verdict shall be whichever 
> of the tied responses appears first in the Rule defining them, unless the rule
> for a particular Hearing defines an alternative way to resolve the inclusive
> Hearing.
> "
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of acka-voting-digest V2 #164
> *********************************
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:22:30 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: re acka wiz

> 
> ##SIGSTART  If you see this text, tell me!  You shouldn't!  Thanks.
> 
Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:21:51 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2313

> I think the text about results being inconclusive is a tad too ambigous
> for my taste, but it's consistent with the hearings rule, so it would do.

The amendment to the hearing rule in this proposal defines inconclusive,
then any rule that uses hearings can override the default behaviour for
inconclusive, as the attempted new internomic interface rule does.  Think
virtual functions :)

Do you think the definition of "inconclusive" in the proposed amendment to
the hearing rule is ambiguous?

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:33:37 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Haiku on the occasion of the Senate elections

30, 1997 12:51 AM
> 
>      The only problem
> with Haiku is that you just
>    get started and then
> 
>                - Author unknown
> 
> Robert "Harlot of Haiku" Sevin
> 
I prefer limericks myself...

There once was a girl from the wood
Whose skill as a poet was good
Unfortunately,
With limericks, she
Tried to put as many words in the last line as she possibly could!

There once was a young man for China
With talent for rhyming quite fine-a!
His limericks tend
To come to an end
Suddenly.

There once was a girl from Peru
Whose limericks end at line two

There once was a man from Verdun.

Concepts by someone else,
bits I couldn't remember by me

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Senate

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Vynd wrote:

>I would much appreciate it if the candidates could appraise us of their
>stance on harf, BWG, the Orange Menace, and Acka in general.

Harf is good.
BWG is good.
The Orange Menace is good.
Acka in general is good.

- -mr cwm 

PS I suppose "The Orange Menace is good" could use some more explanation. 
What I mean is that always good to have a Menace or two, as there's
nothing like a good Menace to bring a community together.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:46:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 120

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, breadbox wrote:

>I might point out that CSR 120 would not have changed the fact that
>the Earth is hemispherical and going to stay that way. The Round Earth
>Society has already reattached the northerm hemisphere, and the Flat
>Earth Society has already cut loose the southern hemisphere. "A rule
>change cannot have a retroactive effect."

Ack(a)!  They must have re-attached it when I wasn't looking.  But "going
to stay that way"?  Surely it can be pried loose somehow ...

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 120

>> I might point out that CSR 120 would not have changed the fact that
>> the Earth is hemispherical and going to stay that way. The Round Earth
>> Society has already reattached the northerm hemisphere, and the Flat
>> Earth Society has already cut loose the southern hemisphere. "A rule
>> change cannot have a retroactive effect."
> 
> Ack(a)!  They must have re-attached it when I wasn't looking.

/dev/joe made a large withdrawal from the Treasury and donated it to
the RERS a few days before the FEPS was brought into being.

> But "going to stay that way"?  Surely it can be pried loose somehow ...

Okay ... "going to stay that way unless someone writes a rule that
allows either the northern hemisphere to become unstuck again or
the southern hemisphere to be retrieved from outer space."

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CSR 120

> /dev/joe made a large withdrawal from the Treasury and donated it to
> the RERS a few days before the FEPS was brought into being.
> 
> > But "going to stay that way"?  Surely it can be pried loose somehow ...
> 
> Okay ... "going to stay that way unless someone writes a rule that
> allows either the northern hemisphere to become unstuck again or
> the southern hemisphere to be retrieved from outer space."

  BwaHaHa!  In the works.

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Visit rec.games.video.classic and find out about Pac-Man's contemporaries!
If man had been meant to fly, he would have invented airplanes.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:52:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Possible change in page format

  I always find myself wishing I didn't have to go to two seperate pages to
find the name of an office holder and to find that person's email address.
  DAYW.

___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______
<[email-masked]><[email-masked]> http://users.bergen.org/~dankna
Visit ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/ and find out about text adventures!
If man had been meant to fly, he would have invented airplanes.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:36:19 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka : Financier

Niccolo Flychuck wrote:

> A couple of days ago I anounced I was transferring some property to
> the
> Church of Odo. Unfortunately I no longer have a list of items it
> originally transffered to me. If that makes the transfer not happen,
> then
> I'll post a list of items (not necessarily the same ones that were
> originally owned by the church, byut I shall make a good faith attempt
> to
> return to it what is its due)
> 
Please check Alfvaen's p/e page to see whether it reflects
the changes.  Rule 515 says this:

	A Player may offer a trade of one group of entities for
	another, by sending a public message specifying the
	entities offered (if any) and the entities requested (if
	any), if and only if the trade is legal.

I'm willing to accept "the items the Church of Odo gave me" as
sufficient specification, and if I had been the Financier at
the time then my log would have told me what those were.  I
do not, however, have access to Alfvaen's financial log, so at
this point it may be better to let Alfvaen sort out any
problems.  I would like to recommend to all players hat they
spell out all entity transfer offers in detail (i.e. with the
names/types and numbers of all the included entities) so as to
avoid possible confusion in the future.

ThinMan
Acting Financier and acting harfer-of-many-things

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:36:28 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Senate

> 
> I would much appreciate it if the candidates could appraise us of their
> stance on harf, BWG, the Orange Menace, and Acka in general.
> 
Harf is harfy
BWG may or may not be harfy
The Orange Menance is not harfy
Acka is harfy

Balsamic Dragon
Harfmeister

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:59:06 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: contempt

In order to clear up any uncertainty, I will note that my
resignation from the Senate occured on the 26th, thus I was
not a member of the Senate when the voting period on INP 348
expired.  This was a fortunate coincidence, and not by design.

ThinMan
ex-Senator

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:12:24 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Matress

I suggest that The Matress use its Secret Lab to build an Evil
Ballot Stuffer.

I support that suggestion.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:35:02 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: aCKA: bILLBOARDS

Ultima Records is number 69 on the charts!

Balsamic Dragon

(of course Alfvaen's at number 12, but fortunately for us newcomers to the
game he's disqualified himself....!)

------------------------------

End of ackanomic digest V2 #321
*******************************