Subject: ackanomic digest V2 #231
From: [email-masked] (ackanomic digest)
To: [email-masked]

ackanomic digest        Sunday, August 3 1997        Volume 02 : Number 231

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Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:28:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: acka : Otmza Card Auctions

On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> > > OCID 136 Guy Fakwes A$20  (the later bid by Voting Gnome was approx. 13
> > > hours after the deadline)

> > Hmmm.  In the thread where his GF Mini-storage actions succeeded, Guy
> > Fawkes does not have any A$.  Of course, he did when made the bid, but
> > actually paying it out puts him in debt, if I'm not mistaken.

> > Luckily, GF Mini-storage has exactly twice that amount of A$.  :-)

> The next lower bid was by Chaos for A$15 

No, I think that Guy Fawkes still gets the Card, because the bid was valid
when e made it, and I can't find anything in the Auction rule that
specifies that a player's bid is canceled _after_ e makes it if he no
longer has that many A$.  And if a bid is pending, and a player disposes of
all eir A$, I believe that declaring the end of the auction and taking that
much money from the player could be considered an involuntary entry into
debt.

Of course, this all depends on whether or not Guy Fawkes' transfer of money
to GF Mini-storage in fact occurred.  Just to clear the matter up, I'm
going to submit it as a CFJ, if nobody else already has...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Ray Stevens:The Streak
Current Book--Dan Simmons:The Fall of Hyperion
Has the elephant had any water?

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Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:15:26 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: re acka trade liscence

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	John Frederic Mc Coy [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:51 AM
To:	[email-masked]'
Subject:	Re: re acka trade liscence

On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, jordan james wrote:

> I wish to purchase a trade license for canines tattoo parlor for it is =
a legit business much like mini storage or rex bank I think it costs 20 =
A($) so I pay and its so and I hope to see it recognized as such under =
orginizations on Alvfaens new web page. BTW the page looks great, hear =
hear Alfvaen!
> - kARMA=20
>=20
>=20

Err.  As I try to respond to this mesage, I just now realize that it
doesn't have any line breaks.  Looks OK when I tr to read it, but it =
makes
quoting in a reply more or less impossible.

Anyway.  First, you have to actually start an organization, right now =
the
tattoo parlour is just this thing that you say exists but has no =
standing
under the rules.  Starting an organization is easy, you just say "I'm
founding an organization named such and such."

Once you have the organization, you have to give IT the money so that IT
can buy a Trade Liscence, you can't buy one yourself at all I don't =
think,
only orgs can.  Also, I believe the cost is A$50.  Finally, once the org
has the money, you have to, as a member, propose the org buy a trade
liscence, and then voice your support as a member, and then the org will
do it.  Goofy, but it makes a lot more sense when there is more than one
member to an organization.

- - Vynd
- - It's not so much an organization as it is a shop or store,=20
- - Is there something that I've missed that can simply=20
- - make it a store that sells and buys tattoos?
- -=20
- - - Karma

[email-masked]

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Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:28:30 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: re acka trade liscence

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	Aaron V. Humphrey [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:17 AM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Re: re acka trade liscence

> I wish to purchase a trade license for canines tattoo parlor for it is
> a legit business much like mini storage or rex bank I think it costs =
20
> A($) so I pay and its so and I hope to see it recognized as such under
> orginizations on Alvfaens new web page. BTW the page looks great, hear
> hear Alfvaen!

I think there's a step missing here...first, you have to declare that =
"canines tattoo parlor" is an Organization.  Then it can buy a Trade =
License, and I'll put it up on the PE page.
If I choose to make it an org, It's not the same as harf right? I can =
have this store (organization) and remain a menber for harf cuz' Canines =
Tattoo parlor simply sells and buys used tattoos. It's a shop or a =
store. not an organization or movement of any kind.
- - Karma( trouble xpressing me this morning)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ ) Current =
Album-Nena:It's All In The Game Current Book-Dan Simmons:The Fall of =
Hyperion A signature always reveals a man's character -and sometimes =
even his name.

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Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: re acka trade liscence

On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, jordan james wrote:

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	John Frederic Mc Coy [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:	Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:51 AM
> To:	[email-masked]'
> Subject:	Re: re acka trade liscence
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, jordan james wrote:
> 
> > I wish to purchase a trade license for canines tattoo parlor for it is a legit business much like mini storage or rex bank I think it costs 20 A($) so I pay and its so and I hope to see it recognized as such under orginizations on Alvfaens new web page. BTW the page looks great, hear hear Alfvaen!
> > - kARMA 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Err.  As I try to respond to this mesage, I just now realize that it
> doesn't have any line breaks.  Looks OK when I tr to read it, but it makes
> quoting in a reply more or less impossible.

Okay, apparently even though there aren't any line breaks and this screws
up the way the quote looks as I write these messages, it still comes out
OK when (I at least) go to read it.

> - Vynd
> - It's not so much an organization as it is a shop or store, 
> - Is there something that I've missed that can simply 
> - make it a store that sells and buys tattoos?
> - 
> - - Karma
> 

OK, well here is the deal.  the rules don't have any provisions for
"stores."  So you have two options if you want to run one.  The first one
is what you've been doing up until now, which is just stating that "I have
a store, people can come and buy things from it" and then whenever someone
comes to purchase something you (not the imaginary store) take their money
and provide them with the tattoo.

There's nothing wrong with the first method, but you seem to want your
tattoo parlour to exist as an actual part of the game.  While there aren't
any rules on stores, there are rules on Organizations, and these rules
come closer than anything else to establishing a store.  I already
described what I think you would have to do to have an organization
capable of making financial transactions.  Once you've created it, you
could give it the money necessary, and I think from there you could have
it make and hand out trinkets (those are what you've used for tattoos
aren't they?), and accept payment in return.

Now, you don't need to worry about being a memeber of Harf and this new
organization.  Harf is an organization which owns a Big Tent, making it a
Political Party.  The rules say that you can only be a member of one
PoliticalParty, but you can be a member of as many other orgs as you want
at the same time.

                                    - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:45:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Re: proposals

> awhile back i asked about submitting proposals, and i was told:
> 
> Excerpts from mail: 22-Jul-97 Re: proposals by Uri [email-masked] 
> > You send them to Chaos,he is the Promoter   his address
> > [email-masked]
> > 
> > You can also use his Acrobot 
> > same email, put Acrobot in the subject line. in the message write
> > #help

> > to get the full syntax of all the commands

> i have yet to get a response from that.  now i am aware that there has
> been some problems w/ the bot, i just thru a lot of ackanomic digests
> (they really pile up while you're on vacation).  so i'm not sure what
> the final word / current status of the situation is.  can anybody tell
> me?

No, probably not.  :-)  The Promoter and Tabulator offices are in limbo
right now--Chaos, who's officially performing them, is more or less unable
to do so.  When Chaos leaves the Game, which will be soon, it will be the
responsibility of the President to appoint new players to those Offices;
but Chaos was also the President, and while he has resigned, a new
President hasn't been elected yet.

As far as Offices go, the Game is pretty much in chaos right now.  :-/  If
nobody else besides me volunteered for President, then I'll get the Office
as soon as that is announced, and can get things back on track; otherwise,
we have to go through an Election process as well.

Maybe we should change the Rules to allow for the Speaker or somebody to
fill Functional Offices, at least with Acting Officers, if there is no
President at the time.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--The Breakfast Club:Right On Track
Current Book--Dan Simmons:The Fall of Hyperion
If you pass the Rabid Child, say 'hammer down' for me.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 19:51:33 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: re acka trade liscence

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	John Frederic Mc Coy [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Sunday, August 03, 1997 1:03 PM
To:	[email-masked]'
Subject:	RE: re acka trade liscence

On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, jordan james wrote:

>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	John Frederic Mc Coy [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:	Saturday, August 02, 1997 11:51 AM
> To:	[email-masked]'
> Subject:	Re: re acka trade liscence
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, jordan james wrote:
>=20
> > I wish to purchase a trade license for canines tattoo parlor for it =
is a legit business much like mini storage or rex bank I think it costs =
20 A($) so I pay and its so and I hope to see it recognized as such =
under orginizations on Alvfaens new web page. BTW the page looks great, =
hear hear Alfvaen!
> > - kARMA=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> Err.  As I try to respond to this mesage, I just now realize that it
> doesn't have any line breaks.  Looks OK when I tr to read it, but it =
makes
> quoting in a reply more or less impossible.

Okay, apparently even though there aren't any line breaks and this =
screws
up the way the quote looks as I write these messages, it still comes out
OK when (I at least) go to read it.

> - Vynd
> - It's not so much an organization as it is a shop or store,=20
> - Is there something that I've missed that can simply=20
> - make it a store that sells and buys tattoos?
> -=20
> - - Karma
>=20

OK, well here is the deal.  the rules don't have any provisions for
"stores."  So you have two options if you want to run one.  The first =
one
is what you've been doing up until now, which is just stating that "I =
have
a store, people can come and buy things from it" and then whenever =
someone
comes to purchase something you (not the imaginary store) take their =
money
and provide them with the tattoo.

There's nothing wrong with the first method, but you seem to want your
tattoo parlour to exist as an actual part of the game.  While there =
aren't
any rules on stores, there are rules on Organizations, and these rules
come closer than anything else to establishing a store.  I already
described what I think you would have to do to have an organization
capable of making financial transactions.  Once you've created it, you
could give it the money necessary, and I think from there you could have
it make and hand out trinkets (those are what you've used for tattoos
aren't they?), and accept payment in return.
I wasn't making trinkets, but now that you mention it that's exactly =
what they'll be
Now, you don't need to worry about being a memeber of Harf and this new
organization.  Harf is an organization which owns a Big Tent, making it =
a
Political Party.  The rules say that you can only be a member of one
PoliticalParty, but you can be a member of as many other orgs as you =
want
at the same time.
Excellent! This is what was concerning me.
I make an organization called "Canines Tattoo Parlor" It's actually a =
store, I will make tattoos for people and will buy them back after 3 =
days if not satisfied at 3A($) less than the original price.=20
I buy a trade liscence for whatever price it is, and so it is so =
(located at K9 on the map)
- - Karma=20

                                    - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:39:13 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Re: proposals

> Maybe we should change the Rules to allow for the Speaker or somebody to
> fill Functional Offices, at least with Acting Officers, if there is no
> President at the time.

The the rules should be changed so that the speaker is acting prez in 
the absense of a prez.  This has never been a problem before, and I 
have held off making such a proposal myself for fear of a concentration
of power (i quite like the current system personaally).  However, the
speaker is the one office that is assured of a holder no matter what
happens, so long as at least one offices is filled (if there is ever the
case that no one holds *any* office, then the game is blocked, I believe,
but I would have to check the wording of the speaker succession rule --
IMO, if that ever *does* become the case, then the game *should* be
blocked ;-)

BTW, there will be an election for prez.  I'll announce that in a sec.
Sorry for the delays, but I've been *very* busy (but have been within
the speed rule anyway).

Malenkai
Speaker
Expert in Offices

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:34:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Deluge

Well, with an hour and a half left to go, and only two priests heard
from, and two more on vacation, it looks like the rains are going to come
in full force this month.  Mr. Lunatic Fringe and Niccolo Flychuck usually
start posting later, so odds are they're not going to make it; Chaos is too
beleaguered in RL; and those three are enough to flood us, even if Guy
Fawkes and Robert Sevin make it.  (Not that I'm encouraging you two to
slack off or anything...)

Well, I've still got the Monopole, at least.

Have we ever cleared up the issue of whether one can reattach an Undead's
house?  I think that it should be possible, and if game custom dictates
that it is not, well, there's another proposal idea...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Indigo Girls:1200 Curfews
Current Book--Dan Simmons:The Fall of Hyperion
I wanted to marry a model, but I couldn't manage to put it together.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 19:38:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Deluge

> Have we ever cleared up the issue of whether one can reattach an
> Undead's house?  I think that it should be possible, and if game
> custom dictates that it is not, well, there's another proposal
> idea...

The CFJ that addressed this determined that even the rules did not
have the authority to cause an Undead's house to dangle in the first
place. The rules have since changed to make this explicit:

> Entities that are owned by Undead cannot be manipulated in any way
> except by an action of the Undead. This rule takes precedence over
> all other rules except those pertaining to the transferrence of the
> Chartreuse Goose and Rule 666. This rule defers to Rule 666 (End of
> Cycle).

breadbox

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