Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #193
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest         Sunday, July 13 1997         Volume 02 : Number 193

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:14:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: We have a new player in Ackanomic

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Hank Turowski wrote:

> OK, I've just spent the last hour or so looking at the various treasure
> maps around, and find myself completely confused.  There seem to be some
> common themes showing up in the maps (the are puzzles of similar types) but
> I'm not able to make progress on any of them, so here is my question for you.
> 
> Can you give me a run down of th emajor types of puzzles I will encounted
> in the game and show me where I can find some sample problems and their
> solutions.
> 
> For example, the /dev/joe's legacy map and the parade description... I have
> no clue what they were supposed to mean, but everyone else in the game
> seemed to catch right on.
> 
> Also the map that went out today the One Ring... I don't even understand
> the question, much less how to start solving it.
> 
> Can you give me a push in the right direction?

Ah, a kindred soul.  You're wrong that everyone else around here
understands things like the parade, legacy, etc.  Many of us, perhaps even
most of us, haven't the faintest idea what is going on with that stuff.
Don't feel bad if you can't figure out have to go after some (most) of the
treasures, because you don't understand them, you aren't alone.  I will
say that many of the maps, especialy the maps by people who are really big
on treasures, tend to involve rather difficult stuff like serious
encryption.  A lot of the time the hard part to finding a treasure here
isn't fullfiling the conditions of the map, it's figuring out what the map
says in the first place.

> 
> Hank
> ----

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:46:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Benjamin Good <[email-masked]>
Subject: heeeeeeeeeeere's ben 

hi, i'm ben good, i recently registered for ackanomic.  my mentor is
Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>, i'm not sure if he has a
different acka name or not.

i noticed in the digest that people were wondering if i was officially a
player yet, since i had yet to declare an acka name.  so i hereby
declare my acka name to be ben (w/o the good (i hate my last name), sort
of like prince or madonna).  

next, let me state that i am here for the sole purpose of playing party
chess.  altho ackanomic looks like a fascinating game, i do not
currently have time to get into right now.  i do have a major interest
in chess variants, which how i discovered party chess, and i would like
to play.  so next i have to decide the best way to go about that.

basically, in party chess, i want to be my own man.  i'm not exactly
sure how joining a party works, but in the context of party chess, when
it comes time to moving pieces and buying pieces, etc etc, i don't want
to have to confer w/ anybody else or get anybody else's approval.  

so it has been suggested to me that i either buy a swinger's office, or
become that NAP swinger.  i noticed people were discussing the NAP
swinger's office on the digest, and it appeared as tho the NAP office is
not actually vacant, that the guy who was NAP swinger is on 6 month
vacation or something.  but i think i should check on that, nobody
really seemed sure, and i'm not sure if a definite conclusion was
reached.

if i decide to buy a swinger's office, do i talk to anyone in
particular?  who approves the sale and sets the cost?  do i officially
have any A$ to my name yet?

another question was non-voting or voting status.  i was originally
interested in being a voting player, because i assume there's issues and
rule changes and stuff that come up that are directly related to party
chess (like creation of pieces and such) that i would want to vote on. 
for the rest of ackanomic tho, i wouldn't be voting on anything,
basically cause i wouldn't know what was going on, and i wouldn't want
to mess w/ the game by making uninformed votes.  but if i abstain on
every vote, i'm also affecting quorum.  the question is, is this enough
of a big deal that i shouldn't be a registered voter all the time? 
aaron suggested that i could be non-voting, and switch to voting when
something came up that i needed to vote on.

well, that's all i can think of right now.  any comments or suggestions
or gifts can be sent to me at [email-masked], or of course, you
can send directly to the ackanomic digest (like you need my permission).

thanks,
ben 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:58:50 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka Morphology

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Two:  It is even in a different part of speach.  The Player's name "Bash"
> used the word as a noun,  a proper noun at that.  The common english
> ussage shows that the word "Bashing",  as well as it'sroot,  is a verb. 
> No relation.
> 
> VG

If memory serves Bash derived his ackanomic name from his real name.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:04:48 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : Synod - proposal 2220

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > and the main thing that remains to be determined is whether or not
> > it has been 'robbed' accidentally of assets it previously owned.
> 
> The Synod has not been robbed.  It was my understanding that it was
> the Yor-Delegate's responsibility to track what the Synod owns, not 

That responsibility starts only when the Synod is in Session. As long as
it wasn't, aother than entry fees, the assets were frozen.

> 
> Ask the Yor-Delegate what the assets of the Synod are.
> 
> My guess is that they are A$625, but that is *only a good faith guess,
> it must be verified*.  I am certain it is wrong, but close.

Fine. The Yor-Delegate will post this soon.

What complexity?
Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> Malenkai
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:09:05 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2224

Why can't labor be paid for with real money (that is A$)?

If it were A$, I'd support this. 

Niccolo Flychuck

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Acrobot wrote:

> Proposal 2224
> Inviting Friends For A Beer
> Calvin N Hobbes
> 
> {{This is a Modest proposal
> 
> [ I just had a look at R846 and wondered how on Acka one was supposed to
> improve the infrastructure. A$20000??? Well, though I, let's use some Karl
> Marx in there. Anyone ever invite friends over to rebuild a floor, a wall,
> add a room, repaint the house, refit the roof or the likes? Well we should
> be able to do that too. From the labor of the working classes, their blood
> and sweat, material wealth is produced...   ; )    If we look at the
> numbers, it would require a normal player over 2 years to build an
> extravagant building and still cost A$4000, twice as fast with all the bonuses ]
> 
> Create a rule numbered 1847 with the following text:
> 
> "There exists the concept of Labordollars (L$). These can be accumulated and
> spent by a player at will, as with A$. They are non-entities. They can be
> donated from player to player (only in whole numbers).
> 
> A player (the Proletariat for this rule) may donate a particular day of
> labor to any player (the Bourgeois for this rule) including himself. If on
> that day the Proletariat does not post any messages to the public forum then
> the Bourgeois gets L$20. If the Proletariat was a scientist then the
> Bourgeois gets anextra L$10. If the Proletariat owns a Majik, the Bourgeois
> gets an extra L$10.
> 
> Up to 80% of the construction, destruction, rebuilding or upgrading costs of
> a building may be paid for in L$, destroying those L$. This takes precedence
> over R846."
> 
> [ Cheap labor is good, only draw back is that morality thing ]
> 
> Amend R261 to add as part (v) the following action for a zombie:
> 
> "(v) To do some manual labor. The Zombie cannot do anything else for one
> day. It creates L$30."
> 
> [ I will retract thisif officers feel it would be too much work ]}}
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:16:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2224 

>Why can't labor be paid for with real money (that is A$)?

Because then who would give players the A$? The treasury? I don't think
there is any reason that should be. Every time I'll need a few A$, I'll not
post for a week and get tons of money...

Work is for the infrastructure, that's all. There is no direct conversion to
A$ nor should there be. Spending time doing manual work does create money,
it creates something you can then sell for money.

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:21:06 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : Synod - proposal 2220

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> 
> My guess is that they are A$625, but that is *only a good faith guess,
> it must be verified*.  I am certain it is wrong, but close.
> 

A$550
That would be the initial A$400 plus A$75 from Odo and Seleya each.
The fees from the Markovian Church were transferred to the Treasury at the
time, and somehow I didn't think that proposal magic was an way
appropriate way to rectify that.

Could the Yor-Delegate please confirm that?

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:57:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

I have written an article titled "On Good Government and the Ackanomic
Way."  I would like to publish it in a Newspaper and will sell it for
A$15 to the first taker.

- -- 
Mohammed
The famous amazing aquatic intelligent well-mannered zebra from Mexico
saved a lion from Juneau from boredom.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:06:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  Offer

I am offering A$80 to Calvin N Hobbes in exchange for the Majik named Vilya.
(It is sapphire bullet of pure love #801.)

- -- 
Mohammed
A violent alien sold a Russian a white lion.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:30:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Transaction

snowgod wrote:
> > I am giving two bonus votes to the church of  Odo in the wormhole.

Niccolo Flychuck replied:
> On behalf of the Church of Odo, I ack this, if I need too.

I request that the Senate vote to revoke Niccolo's title of Expert in
the field of "Organizations and Institutions".  The statement above
not only reveals Niccolo's ignorance of the rule detail in question,
but also demonstrates a reluctance to tackle the rules and find out.

I certainly sympathize with Mr. Flychuck; the rules on Organizations
are a wretched mob of unlikely restrictions and red tape (all my
fault, I admit.)  However, we should demand a more rigorous standard
of omniscience for our Experts.  :o)

- -- 
Mohammed
all in good fun

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 04:37:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  bot result format

I have received what I will take as 3 YES, 1 NO, and 1 that I can only
classify as "independent" on the question of whether to change
Acrobot's result format.  The only important opinion (IMHO) is
/dev/joe's and I haven't heard from him.

I'll assume he is indifferent and will implement the change tonite.
Shouldn't take a sec.

- -- 
Mohammed
having fun

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:53:41 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2205 rejected (Greater Internomic Interface)

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Acrobot wrote:

> Proposal 2205
> Greater Internomic Interface
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> Votes cast by active players:  17 / 19 = 89.473684%
> Yes:  3    No:  12     Present:  3   ...Proposal rejected.
> 
> 
> YES votes:
> 	Rex Mundi
> 	Niccolo Flychuck
> 	fnord
> 
> NO votes:
> 	two-star
> 	/dev/joe
> 	mr cwm
> 	breadbox
> 	Guy Fawkes
> 	Antimatter
> 	ThinMan
> 	Karma
> 	Techno
> 	Mohammed
> 	Vynd
> 	Malenkai

The only conclusion I can draw from this, combined with the fact that
hardly any Internomic proposals were made recently, is that all of those
players, with the possible exception of the Senators, have little or no
interest in Internomic.

Niccolo  Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:07:36 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2205 rejected (Greater Internomic Interface)

> >       Malenkai
> 
> The only conclusion I can draw from this, combined with the fact that
> hardly any Internomic proposals were made recently, is that all of those
> players, with the possible exception of the Senators, have little or no
> interest in Internomic.

Where do you get these ideas from? ;-) As the maintainer of the
Internomic web pages, it can hardly be said that I have "little or no
interest in Internomic".  I voted no, because, in my opinion, the proposal
added unnecessary complexity to a process that works fine now, in my
opinion.  I cannot speak for the others who voted no, but I would bet
they had other reasons than the one you proffer as well.  If they did
not care about Internomic, it would seem that present would be the 
appropriate vote, not no.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:28:26 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Treasure 173 Found

Alfvaen has found the Snail Shell #transfer buried,snail shell : alfvaen

He scored 7 points.  Voting Gnome's entry scored 4 points.  The map
is after Alfvaen's answers.  Answers in [] are songs I know that may
fit the answer.

> Antimatter is is cell 1000000000000, its walls are green.

Well, it's a bit big for the Barenaked Ladies, and the closest thing I can
think of is "How To Be A Millionaire" by ABC, which is probably not it.

[David Bowie: Panic in Detroit]

> fnord is in cell 8675309, its walls are green.

Tommy Tutone: 867-5309(Jenny)

> Guy Fawkes is in cell 4545, its walls are green.

Zager & Evans: In The Year 2525

> Rex Mundi is in cell 96, its walls are green.

? & The Mysterians: 96 Tears

> Robert Sevin is in cell 82, its walls are harf.[Asia: Heat of the Moment]

> two star is in cell 66, its walls are wall-coloured.

Not a clue.  (I know there's a "Route 66" song,
[Depeche Mode: Route 66]

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whoever scores the most points in the Gaolhouse Rock Numbers Contest
(GRNC) shall find the Snail Shell.  In the event of a tie for most,
the player who submitted the first of the tied entries shall win.

The rules of the GNRC are:

0) Entries are via private e-mail to me.  Non-private e-mail is not
an entry.  Entries shall be unambiguously marked as such.  [This post
was sent to acka-priv].

1) A player may only submit one entry.  Entries after their *first*
are disqualified.

2) Contest ends Sat, July 12th, 23:59.

3) For each of the numbers in my recent Gaol cell descriptions (requoted
below), players may submit one song and the artist who recorded that
song.  To score, the song must contain, in its lyrics, the number in
question. One point is scored if I recognize the song, and can verify
the lyric.  If this point is scored, another point is scored for this
song if the artist mentioned did in fact record the song, and I can
verify that.  The artist point cannot be scored if the song point is
not scored (for a particular number).

4) It is recognized that I may not recognize a legitimate entry.  There
are many gaps in my musical knowledge.  That's the way the bee bumbles,
unfortunately.  Your best bet is sticking with commercial rock/alternative
music, or adding extra material, such as a URL (which I am free to ignore),
to bolster your claim.
  
5) Titles and artists must be reasonably exact (excluding articles,
prepositions, punctuation, and the like), as judged by me.  For example,
"8675309" is wrong.  "Artist" means band or performer/solo artist.

6) The decisions of the Judges are final, even if wrong.  This clause
has precedence over all others in the map.  Sorry, I'll try my best. :-)

7) An extra point is awarded for providing *both* "Bedbugs and Ballyhoo"/
"Echo and the Bunnymen" for "That's the way the bee bumbles".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:23:58 -0700
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> 
> I have written an article titled "On Good Government and the Ackanomic
> Way."  I would like to publish it in a Newspaper and will sell it for
> A$15 to the first taker.

I will take this offer. The HTML Standard buys exclusive first-use
rights and pays upon publication.

#transfer two-star, Mohammed: 15: upon publication

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:48:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2205 rejected (Greater Internomic Interface)

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Acrobot wrote:
> 
> > Proposal 2205
> > Greater Internomic Interface
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> > 
> > Votes cast by active players:  17 / 19 = 89.473684%
> > Yes:  3    No:  12     Present:  3   ...Proposal rejected.
> > 
> > 
> > YES votes:
> > 	Rex Mundi
> > 	Niccolo Flychuck
> > 	fnord
> > 
> > NO votes:
> > 	two-star
> > 	/dev/joe
> > 	mr cwm
> > 	breadbox
> > 	Guy Fawkes
> > 	Antimatter
> > 	ThinMan
> > 	Karma
> > 	Techno
> > 	Mohammed
> > 	Vynd
> > 	Malenkai
> 
> 
> The only conclusion I can draw from this, combined with the fact that
> hardly any Internomic proposals were made recently, is that all of those
> players, with the possible exception of the Senators, have little or no
> interest in Internomic.

Personaly, I wouldn't mind seeing this duty taken from the Senate.  Of all
the things the Senate does, this is clearly the most important, and the
one all of the players should be most ineterested in.  I can't say whether
your assesment of their actual interest is correct or not.

I voted against this because it seemed to me to make things more
ocmplicated, and easier to scam.  People can get multiple votes for being
members of more than one Instituion if we do things this way, that doesn't
seem right to me.  The Joint Assembly isn't very well fleshed out in the
rules at all, so far as I can see.  Who counts the votes from the various
assemblies?  The Count Tabula or the Speaker I would assume.  What happens
if an instituion fails to vote in time?  I'm sure we could figure all this
out, given enough time and effort, but personaly I didn't want to.  And
who says that Instituions in general are any more qualified to vote on
Internomic proposals than the specific Institution of the Senate?  I can't
find a list of Institutions anywhere (I am correct that Organizations are
different, am I not?) but the only two I know of are the Senate and Party
Hall.  Wonderful, now we add a bunch of people who aren't even
neccessarily interested in Acka, let alone internomic, to the list of
people who have to vote on Internomic proposals?  I could go on, but
suffice it to say that there are plenty of good reasons for people to ahve
voted against this proposal, whether they are interested in Internomic or
not.

If you want my vote on changes in the way Internomic voting is done,
you're going to ahve to do one of two things.  One possibility would be to
allow everyone to vote on Internomic proposals, as if they were just like
Acka proposals.  This is straight-forward, and allows everyone equal
participation.  Another poosibility would be to start a special
Institution in charge of, and devotd specificaly to, Internomic matters,
and allow anyone who wnats to to join it.  This would have more or less
the same effect as letting everyone vote, except you exclude the people
who weren't interested in the first place.  All the other ideas I have
heard so far either just wouldn't work, or would be like the system we
have now except more confusing, overly complicated, and easy to screw up.

> 
> Niccolo  Flychuck
> 

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:46:01 -0700
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 424, 425 Acceptance

I accept cfj's 424 and 425

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:51:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Offer 

>I am offering A$80 to Calvin N Hobbes in exchange for the Majik named Vilya.
>(It is sapphire bullet of pure love #801.)

And of course, I ack this! The Majik Vilya has the following description:

>This trinket is Majik. It is sapphire bullet of pure love number 801. Vilya is 
>the First of the Three Rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky. It is a ring
>of gold with a great blue stone. 

#transfer mohammed cnh : Vilya : trade
#transfer cnh mohammed : A$80 : trade

I'm keeping in mind the fact that the Majik rule fails to mention that they
are tradeable entitites (there's a prop in queue). It may seem like these
transfers are defining game custom as we go, but that is arguably not the
case (even if it was it's in the spirit of the game). There is a tradition
of paying for newspaper articles (as Mohammed just got paid for his), even
though they are not entities in the rules.

(CnH)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:10:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Offer

> I'm keeping in mind the fact that the Majik rule fails to mention that they
> are tradeable entitites (there's a prop in queue). It may seem like these
> transfers are defining game custom as we go, but that is arguably not the
> case (even if it was it's in the spirit of the game).

> There is a tradition
> of paying for newspaper articles (as Mohammed just got paid for his), even
> though they are not entities in the rules.
	Nnnnnnnn yeah, but the article isn't an entity at all and
Ackanomic has nothing to say about anybody "owning" it.  With Majik's
it seems like the rules should cover it.  Assuming they're entities,
the trade is illegal.

- -- 
Mohammed
Watch out for millions of wandering Americans.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:14:01 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2205 rejected (Greater Internomic Interface)

Well stated. -- Malenkai

Vynd wrote:

> Personaly, I wouldn't mind seeing this duty taken from the Senate.  Of all
> the things the Senate does, this is clearly the most important, and the
> one all of the players should be most ineterested in.  I can't say whether
> your assesment of their actual interest is correct or not.
> 
> I voted against this because it seemed to me to make things more
> ocmplicated, and easier to scam.  People can get multiple votes for being
> members of more than one Instituion if we do things this way, that doesn't
> seem right to me.  The Joint Assembly isn't very well fleshed out in the
> rules at all, so far as I can see.  Who counts the votes from the various
> assemblies?  The Count Tabula or the Speaker I would assume.  What happens
> if an instituion fails to vote in time?  I'm sure we could figure all this
> out, given enough time and effort, but personaly I didn't want to.  And
> who says that Instituions in general are any more qualified to vote on
> Internomic proposals than the specific Institution of the Senate?  I can't
> find a list of Institutions anywhere (I am correct that Organizations are
> different, am I not?) but the only two I know of are the Senate and Party
> Hall.  Wonderful, now we add a bunch of people who aren't even
> neccessarily interested in Acka, let alone internomic, to the list of
> people who have to vote on Internomic proposals?  I could go on, but
> suffice it to say that there are plenty of good reasons for people to ahve
> voted against this proposal, whether they are interested in Internomic or
> not.
> 
> If you want my vote on changes in the way Internomic voting is done,
> you're going to ahve to do one of two things.  One possibility would be to
> allow everyone to vote on Internomic proposals, as if they were just like
> Acka proposals.  This is straight-forward, and allows everyone equal
> participation.  Another poosibility would be to start a special
> Institution in charge of, and devotd specificaly to, Internomic matters,
> and allow anyone who wnats to to join it.  This would have more or less
> the same effect as letting everyone vote, except you exclude the people
> who weren't interested in the first place.  All the other ideas I have
> heard so far either just wouldn't work, or would be like the system we
> have now except more confusing, overly complicated, and easy to screw up.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:30:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

> I will take this offer. The HTML Standard buys exclusive first-use
> rights and pays upon publication.
	I would accept if you'd guarantee I get the money.  *grin*
	I don't like the terms of the deal, particularly "pays upon
publication".  What a scheme.  If you don't agree with my opinions I'm
out the money -and- the article.  :)
	So, no guarantees.  Put up the money and I'll send you the
article.  If you don't like it you can sell it to someone else.  FWIW
the article is around 400 words.

- -- 
Mohammed
* President *

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:08:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Supreme Court Appointment

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> In other news, the prez has probably broken the speed rule in regards
> to appointing a justice,
	Bah.  Nobody wants the job.
	So let's do process of elimination, eh?

Malenkai, Robert Sevin, Thinman, /dev/joe, Vynd, breadbox, and I are
ineligible because of offices already held.  This is a shame because I
think Vynd is the best fit for the office under the circumstances.

Red Barn, Ackers, fnord, Antimatter, Carsesrac are on the CFJ
Ineligibility list and would thus probably be inappropriate.

Ben has no interest or time for the job, and mr cwm just resigned from
it.  Atilla the Pun, AZTEC GOD, Chalmers, Darth Vader, Joon, Karma,
Lipid, Rex Mundi, Sammy, and Techno are all either too new or too
quiet.  (No offense.)

This leaves seven candidates, all involved and competent (IMHO
anyway).  The question is, who has the most time.  Hmm.

So from a field of zero volunteers I am picking the fabulous Guy
Fawkes.  It's now up to the Senate to confirm or reject.  Maybe if
there are any volunteers the Senate will vote to reject and we'll do
this again in a few days.

- -- 
Mohammed
When an American talks, several breathtaking aliens listen.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:00:54 -0700
From: Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> 
> > I will take this offer. The HTML Standard buys exclusive first-use
> > rights and pays upon publication.
>         I would accept if you'd guarantee I get the money.  *grin*
>         I don't like the terms of the deal, particularly "pays upon
> publication".  What a scheme.  If you don't agree with my opinions I'm
> out the money -and- the article.  :)
>         So, no guarantees.  Put up the money and I'll send you the
> article.  If you don't like it you can sell it to someone else.  FWIW
> the article is around 400 words.
> 
> --
> Mohammed
> * President *

You can't seriously expect me to pay for the article sight unseen. If
the article contains factual errors I may be forced into publishing
numerous contractions, and it is absurd to suggest that I could simply
sell it to someone else, when it is unlikely that it will have any
resale value if I won't publish it-- (my standards aren't *that* high.) 
I can promise that I will publish the article and pay you within 24
hours of receiving it, or I will notify you if I find it unaccepable, in
which case you will retain all rights to it. If you wish I will sign a
contract to this effect. If this is not acceptable, you can find someone
else to publish it.

**two-star
* Editor *
The HTML Standard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:35:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

> You can't seriously expect me to pay for the article sight unseen. If
> the article contains factual errors I may be forced into publishing
> numerous contractions
	There are no factual errors in it.
	At least, as far as I know there aren't any.  And in any case
you don't *have* to publish it.

	If you want this kind of a no-risk venture, the price will
be higher.  A$25 will buy you a peek at the article and the right to
publish it if you wish.  If you don't like it, I'll refund the money.

- -- 
Mohammed
A lone pirate, a baker, and a detective from West Virginia joined forces
to fight farmers.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:03:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka:  bot result format

> I have received what I will take as 3 YES, 1 NO, and 1 that I can only
> classify as "independent" on the question of whether to change
> Acrobot's result format.  The only important opinion (IMHO) is
> /dev/joe's and I haven't heard from him.

I was away for the weekend and I am now catching up on my acka mail.
About 20 messages to go, plus about 50 to process in some way.

I am mildly in favor of adding the proposal text to rejected proposals.
It lets me see what got rejected at the time I see it was rejected
(though I would eventually see this anyway, since I have to harf the
result into the proposal archive) and it also is good for those rare
cases where the bot posts that a proposal was rejected but because of
some missing or incorrect vote it was actually accepted.  The only
drawback is increased bandwidth on acka-voting, and it's not that big
an increase.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

>> You can't seriously expect me to pay for the article sight unseen. If
>> the article contains factual errors I may be forced into publishing
>> numerous contractions
> 	There are no factual errors in it.
> 	At least, as far as I know there aren't any.  And in any case
> you don't *have* to publish it.

Of course he doesn't have to publish it, but then he's out A$15 and
still needs something to publish.

> 	If you want this kind of a no-risk venture, the price will
> be higher.

Do you not trust the editors of our fine Newspapers to not steal your
work? Such implications!

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:13:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Supreme Court Appointment

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Jason Orendorff wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> > In other news, the prez has probably broken the speed rule in regards
> > to appointing a justice,
> 	Bah.  Nobody wants the job.
> 	So let's do process of elimination, eh?
> 
> Malenkai, Robert Sevin, Thinman, /dev/joe, Vynd, breadbox, and I are
> ineligible because of offices already held.  This is a shame because I
> think Vynd is the best fit for the office under the circumstances.

I'm flattered, but my grasp of the intricate legalities of acka is sketchy
at best.

> 
> Red Barn, Ackers, fnord, Antimatter, Carsesrac are on the CFJ
> Ineligibility list and would thus probably be inappropriate.
> 
> Ben has no interest or time for the job, and mr cwm just resigned from
> it.  Atilla the Pun, AZTEC GOD, Chalmers, Darth Vader, Joon, Karma,
> Lipid, Rex Mundi, Sammy, and Techno are all either too new or too
> quiet.  (No offense.)
> 
> This leaves seven candidates, all involved and competent (IMHO
> anyway).  The question is, who has the most time.  Hmm.
> 
> So from a field of zero volunteers I am picking the fabulous Guy
> Fawkes.  It's now up to the Senate to confirm or reject.  Maybe if
> there are any volunteers the Senate will vote to reject and we'll do
> this again in a few days.
> 

Speaking as a Senator, I would rather see some volunteers than just pick
someone.  I would also, quite reasonably, I think, like to hear what guy
Fawkes thinks of the idea. =)

speaking as the CSRR, I think you should appoint mr cwm.

> -- 
> Mohammed
> When an American talks, several breathtaking aliens listen.
> 

                                    - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:14:31 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2220

>         If you want this kind of a no-risk venture, the price will
> be higher.  A$25 will buy you a peek at the article and the right to
> publish it if you wish.  If you don't like it, I'll refund the money.

I'll pay A$30 for exclusive rights to the copy.  Ack this and the
money is transferred, then e-mail it to me :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:23:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Your Delegate :) 

The synod began with A$400. {{double braced gift}}

The church of the markovian dream was the first to purchase a seat on the
synod, but its A$75 went to the treasury (I remember discussion about
this).  NExt Odo purchased a seat, and it's A$75 went to the synod.  Seleya
just purchased a seat, and it's A$75 went to the synod.

The synod currently is valued @ A$550.

Mr. Lnatic Fringe
Yor-Delegate
wants to give synod a shot

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:20:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  name change

I am changing my name from Mohammed to Chaos.

- -- 
Chaos
A stork from Zaire fell asleep while a motley crew of parakeets gave long
lectures.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:29:27 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Supreme Court Appointment 

>	Bah.  Nobody wants the job.
>	So let's do process of elimination, eh?
>

IU volunteered.  Hah! Really!.  Couldn't you just see it... Mr. Lunatic
Justice?

Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:36:43 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  name change 

>I am changing my name from Mohammed to Chaos.
>
>--
>Chaos

I acknowledge this.  And since I'm not an expert in players or anything, I
find it safe to say that I believe ytou no longer have to give a reason for
changing you name and state your old name and all that other increased
complexity for little value :)

Mr. Lunatic Fringe
Registrar

>A stork from Zaire fell asleep while a motley crew of parakeets gave long
>lectures.

I believe you

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:10:26 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 429 (mr cwm)

mr cwm has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 429
  Subject: Similarity
Initiator: Malenkai
    Judge: mr cwm (selected Jul 13, 1997, 19:10h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The H similarity of They Might be Slumbering Giants and They Might be
Slumbering Giants is 100.

Malenkai's Reasoning:

Similarity is described by rule 1003, section 4.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:19:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Your Delegate :)

MLF wrote:
> The synod began with A$400. {{double braced gift}}
> 
> The church of the markovian dream was the first to purchase a seat on the
> synod, but its A$75 went to the treasury (I remember discussion about
> this).  NExt Odo purchased a seat, and it's A$75 went to the synod.  Seleya
> just purchased a seat, and it's A$75 went to the synod.
> 
> The synod currently is valued @ A$550.

My records show that the Odo church spent A$80 on its synod seat, due to
some 6th member having left only recently before the seat was purchased.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:07:50 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka lousy food

I've been at snowgods for a wek now and I hate his cooking so I will go to 
my tattoo parlor wearing my toga get it cleaned and ready for business and 
wait for the great toga treasure hunt to begin. Come on over and get a 
tattoo the needles are new!
- - Karma (tattoo u)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:55:44 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 430 (Guy Fawkes)

Guy Fawkes, Supreme Court nominee, has been picked.  Perhaps the
Senate should wait to see how he handles this one ;-)

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 430
  Subject: Adjudicating Treasure 101
Initiator: Malenkai
    Judge: Guy Fawkes (selected Jul 13, 1997, 19:55h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The activity labelled Grab-a-Donkey that has been in progress over
the past few months is not actually a game of Grab-a-Donkey.

Malenkai's Reasoning:

This is a fascinating prinicple of law, IMO, and can have some 
far-reaching implications.  Alot more fun than calling a CFCJ on the
Wrangler for consistent gross tardiness, IMO :-)

Grab-a-Donkey is described by rule 1213.  Rule 1213 lays out a prescription
for playing the game of Grab-a-Donkey; in particular, it regulates the
action of the Wrangler moderating a game of Grab-a-Donkey.  I quote 
relevent sections of rule 1213 pertaining to the act of moderating the
game:

> Rounds will last no less than one full day and no more than 3 full
> days from the start of the round. 
> E. At the end of the Round, the Wrangler will publicly report what each 
> player on the GAL did, and determine the results. 

The Wrangler thus has 3 days from the start of the round to post the 
results.  The Wrangler is not an office, thus the speed provision does 
not apply, although there may be sufficient game custom to construe
*any* time limits in the game to have an extra 3 day grace period 
tacked on.  I'm not gonna get into that here, because it doesn't
matter.  Lets assume 6 days.

The Wrangler, on at least one occasion, has posted the results of GAD
more than 6 days after the start of the round.  Thus the game of GAD
has not been played as described in the rules.  (In case the statute of
limitations comes into play in this CFJ, I note that the round announced
this fortnight is tardy, so the SoL should not apply.  Also, previous
tardiness *has* been pointed out as well, another reason the SoL does
not apply.)  The fun part is,  what does that *mean*?

I quote from rule 101:

> The rules and the game state may only be changed as described in the
> rules. Actions described in the rules may only be performed, and shall
> only have those effects, as specified by the rules.

The action of playing and moderating the game of Grab-a-Donkey that has
occurred this spring and summer has not been performed as described in
the rules, as demonstrated above.  Actions, however, may *only* be 
performed as described in the rules.  The conclusion, therefore, is that
that action is not, in fact, a game of Grab-a-Donkey, but something
similar with a much more relaxed pace.  How's that for pretzel logic?
I know there is a logician's term for it, but I cannot remember it OtToMH.

Ah, now this feels like nomic :-)

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #193
*******************************