Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #189
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest         Friday, July 11 1997         Volume 02 : Number 189

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:36 -0700
From: fnord <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Machine (fnord)

On Wed, Jul 09, 1997 at 08:37:53PM -0400, Malenkai wrote:
> The Machine has teleported to fnord's house.

I'm sorry, fnord may or may not be at home at the moment, as he is currently
experiencing torture in some sort of toroidal plea for some woman to remember
some odd combination of digits.  If you would like to leave a message, or
perhaps a trinket of some sort, please do so at the sound of the 
ear-piercing scream...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaahhhhhhhhhH!!!!!!!!!

fnord

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:27:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: re acka trinket 

>I am crating a trinket called "Economy Sized Bottle of TOBASCULES SAUCE"
> Worth 50count em.. 50A($)

I'll let someone else decide if this works, but: I'm laughing my ass off.

>This bottle is punier than a breadbox

Hehehe

it has a green screw off cap, and
>contains what would be a badly painted pukey kind of "red barn red"

:)

colored
>sauce inside (kind of like tobasco sauce). Also inside the bottle is an
>item of some kind but 'cause of the thick opaque "Barn Red"

:>

color it would
>have to be opened to determine exactly what it is. The label taped upon the
>bottle depicts a sickingly thin man wearing a sombrero and the top corner
>of the label is torn so it reads "-BASCULES SAUCE"'

YES!

>- karma

The Fringmeister

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:36:44 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Registrarness 

>Mr. Lunatic Fringe,
>
>Please send a command to the bot that says
>
>#create player Darth Vader : [email-masked] : voting
>
>and likewise for Ben, and the other new player, Lipid.
>
>Much obliged!
>
>--
>Mohammed
>Hundreds of Americans from Honolulu trapped a snobbish Martian from
>Mexico.

Mohammed,

Thanks.  I forgot all about that new command.  I'll get right on it.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:07:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Ping

Today is Thursday, the 10th day of July, in the Year of Our Lord
1997, and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today.  Since I
have been Scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 11 times.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:29:41 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ping 

>Today is Thursday, the 10th day of July, in the Year of Our Lord
>1997, and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today.  Since I
>have been Scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 11 times.

Forgot to turn it off, did ya?

Mr. Lunatic Fringe
*Ping*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:05:21 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Niccolo Flychuck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2220

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Acrobot wrote:

> Proposal 2220
> More Simplification
> Malenkai
> 
> 
> This is a Modest proposal.  Repeal rule 1303, "Synod".
> 
> {{[this thing's been around nearly 9 months now, is over-complicated,
> and there seems no game advantage to paying to do this when orgs can
> do, through informal agreement, what this rule tries to do, and with
> much less overhead.  I was also told that it did not work, but I have
> not verified that assertion myself.  Perhaps someone should explain
> *why* we need this rule if we are going to keep it.I assert that if
> it was useful, it would have been used by now.]}}
> 

Same old  'why do we need it' argument. That's what they said about
Organizations. That's what they said about Institutions. That's what they
said about Churches. That's what they said about Party Chess. Hey, why do
we need any rule? What was wrong with the initial ruleset?

This rule carries very little little overhead, and it is all voluntary
overhead. It does not add to the Speaker's work, because it assigns all
the work to the Yor-Delegate. 
I think it would be an interesting thing to try out. I think that's as
good as answer as any to the question of *why*. we need because it hasn't
been tried yet. 
Your assertion that is would have been used ignores the fact that, there
need to be at least three Delegates for the Synod to do anything, and
until recently there weren't enough Churches around. (and TLO are pretty
new too)

I am interested in hearing why it does not work.

The thing is, if acka is ever to have an economy, it would need such
entities. Without an economy, there would little meaning to internomic
trading.  (Currently acka doesn't really have an economy).

Of course it is possible that economy does not interest anyone in acka,
and in that case, the rule would indeed be useless. The rule establishes
a cooperative/competitive environments among Organizations.

Niccolo Flychuck

Expert on Organizations and Institutions

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Trinket Creations

I am hereby creating the following five trinkets.

I. Name: "Bug Bashing Implement". Value: A$33. Description:

A flyswatter that is very high-tech-looking in some undefinable way.
It is rumored that the Tabulator/Promotor must possess this trinket
for eir bot to be fully functional.

#trinket breadbox: Bug Bashing Implement: 33

II. Name: "Mister Cwm's Bench". Value: A$77. Description:

A hand-carved pewter pendant of a bench. It is said that wearing this
trinket on a necklace brings the possessor insight.

#trinket breadbox: Mister Cwm's Bench: 77

III. Name: "Mr X-Y-Z". Value: A$7. Description:

A tasteless plastic statuette of a dopey-looking person with eir pant
zipper at half-mast.

#trinket breadbox: Mr X-Y-Z: 7

IV. Name: "Fon-due Set". Value: A$40. Description:

A fondue set. Presumably we all know what a fondue set looks like. It
is painted a retina-searing violet hue.

#trinket breadbox: Fon-due Set: 40

V. Name: "Malenkai-run Office". Value: A$73. Description:

A wooden cube, one foot on each side. Opening the lid reveals within a
miniature office, filled with filing cabinets and office furniture,
and in which a clockwork clerk figurine dashes about, filing, signing,
and organizing pieces of paper. New pieces of paper requiring
attention appear continuously in a miniature inbox on the desk in the
middle of the office.

#trinket breadbox: Malenkai-run Office: 73

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:55:55 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2220

> Same old  'why do we need it' argument. That's what they said about
> Organizations. That's what they said about Institutions. [...]

The question is still on the table.  I'm not asking about organizations
or institutions.  My question pertains to rule 1303, "Synod".  (BTW, we
do *not* need all of orgs, churches, parties and institutions, but that was
not my question).

> I think it would be an interesting thing to try out. I think that's as
> good as answer as any to the question of *why*. we need because it hasn't
> been tried yet.

For my benefit, and I seem to be the one here that does not understand
the point or the value of the rule, could you be a bit more concrete?

> Your assertion that is would have been used ignores the fact that, there
> need to be at least three Delegates for the Synod to do anything, and
> until recently there weren't enough Churches around. (and TLO are pretty
> new too)

Um, TLO's have been around for nearly 4 months.  The Church of Seleya has
been around longer.  My assertion ignores no such facts.  

> The thing is, if acka is ever to have an economy, it would need such
> entities. Without an economy, there would little meaning to internomic
> trading.  (Currently acka doesn't really have an economy).

Again, this is an abstract answer.  Could you be a bit more specific as
to why we need rule 1303 to have an economy?  I do not see that assertion
as being true, based on the text of rule 1303 and the customary definition
of "economy".  The State of Pennsylvania has no such institution or law,
yet has an economy.
 
> Of course it is possible that economy does not interest anyone in acka,
> and in that case, the rule would indeed be useless. The rule establishes
> a cooperative/competitive environments among Organizations.

The game environment already establishes a cooperative/competetive 
environment among player-controlled entities, and has done so since day
1.  How, *specifically*, does rule 1303, for all its complexity,
calculations, and things to track and remember, add value to this?
Could not the Church of Seleya and Guy Fawkes Mini-Sotrage, for example,
decide to form an informal cooperative/competetive agreement without
rule 1303? 

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:36:35 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Monster!

Vynd wrote:

> Achem.   Zey said I was mad at zee Univercity, but I'll show zem, I'll
> show zem ALL!!!  I vill suceed vhere all bevore me haf vailed!  I am
> building a Monster and it's name is Trumpy!  Trumpy vould never hurt
> anyvon!
> 
You have watched too much MST3K.  I guess I have, too.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:39:06 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Gifts

/dev/joe wrote:

> I am giving one bonus vote to ThinMan.
> 
I accept this.

#transfer /dev/joe, ThinMan: 1 Bonus Vote: Gift

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:40:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2220

Niccolo Flychuck wrote (about the Synod):
> Your assertion that is would have been used ignores the fact that, there
> need to be at least three Delegates for the Synod to do anything, and
> until recently there weren't enough Churches around. (and TLO are pretty
> new too)

Niccolo asked me if the church of seleya was interested in joining the
synod, making the third delegate needed to get it started.  I e-mailed
all the other members and asked if anybody wanted to be Seleya's delegate
to the synod, and nobody responded, so with nobody interested in filling
the delegate seat, I didn't bother to have Seleya buy one.

> I am interested in hearing why it does not work.

I looked at the rule when Niccolo asked me about Seleya joining.

[All quotes here from R1303, "Synod".  Section 8 appears to be the guts
of the rule.]
  3. The Synod is in session when there are three or more occupied Seats
  ...
  7. When the Synod is in session it can trade currency and assets.
  8. Profit Sharing Day - whenever the Synod has been in session for at
  least 14 consecutive days and there was no Profit Sharing Day for at
  least 14 consecutive days. 
  An Organization is eligible for getting a share of the profits if (a) it has
  a Delegate in the Synod and (b) it had a Delegate in the Synod for at least
  90% of the time during the 14 days previous to the Profit Sharing Day.

[OK, good so far]

  Profits are defined as
  (A$ currently owned by the Synod minus (A$ owned by the Synod after the
  previous profit distribution, or on the most recent date the Synod
  was not in Session, whichever was more recent)) 

[Good here, profits are the change in the Synod's A$ between profit sharing
days or between the start of a session and a profit sharing day.  I don't
know why the parentheses are here though.]

  Let TotalMem be the total number of members of all Organizations. 
  For each Organization let NoM be the number of members of that Organization.
  Each Organization receives (NoM*2)/(TotalMem*5), rounded down to the nearest
  integer.
  For the purpose of Profit Sharing Day, vacationing members are counted as
  well.

All organizations?  This is going to be a piddly small fraction.
As written it looks like a fraction that is always rounded down to zero,
but I think it is supposed to say "(NoM*2*profits)/(TotalMem*5) A$".
This is still going to be miniscule.  Here are the orgs we have now,
with number of members:

Markovian Dream: 5
Seleya: 5
Odo on the Wormhole: 5
Harf: 5
(none yet): 3
Vulcan: 3
MetaMorph: 3
TMBSG: 6
GF Mini-storage: 1
RexBank: 1
TOTAL: 37

So a church with 5 members in the synod (assuming seleya joined and
no org memberships changed within 14 days) would receive (2*5)/(5*37) = 2/37
of the Synod's profits.  If the synod manages to earn A$100, each church
would get A$2 if the rule was reworded as I described above.  Whee.

> The thing is, if acka is ever to have an economy, it would need such
> entities. Without an economy, there would little meaning to internomic
> trading.  (Currently acka doesn't really have an economy).
> 
> Of course it is possible that economy does not interest anyone in acka,
> and in that case, the rule would indeed be useless. The rule establishes
> a cooperative/competitive environments among Organizations.

I think the several months of the possibility of the synod getting started
and it not actually happening is a sign of this lack of interest.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:04:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Player (two-star) 

>Let me be the first to introduce to you Lipid, or Darren Richmond en
>realidad, our newest voting player.

Sounds familiar...

>> the empty set (this wasn't an answer to one of your current
>>questions, but if you have any more, I'm sure this will be the answer to
>>it).

[zap]

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Monster!

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:

> 
> Vynd wrote:
> 
> > Achem.   Zey said I was mad at zee Univercity, but I'll show zem, I'll
> > show zem ALL!!!  I vill suceed vhere all bevore me haf vailed!  I am
> > building a Monster and it's name is Trumpy!  Trumpy vould never hurt
> > anyvon!
> > 
> You have watched too much MST3K.  I guess I have, too.
> 
> ThinMan
> 

Aha!  My trap worked!

                               - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:24:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Minor problem

My computer doesn't work.  Or at least, it didn't when I got fed up with
it last night, I've been too busy at work, and now out at school, to look
at it today.  I'm hoping I can fix it tommorow or Saturday (it looks to be
a software problem), but you never know.  I'm letting you all know jsut on
the off chance that someone actually tries to get in touch with me
specificaly over the next few days, since I'm unlikely to be able to
respond.  I'm not going on vacation yet, but if problems persist well into
the weekend, I may have no other choice.  No, this is not a copout to
escape this buisness with the Mad Scientist office, although you can
consider it fair warning that one of you might be recieving that title in
the near future...    I'll hopefully be online at least once more today.

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:26:58 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 424 (two-star)

two-star has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 424
  Subject: Conventional English Morphology I
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: two-star (selected Jul 10, 1997, 22:26h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The trinket "Bug Bashing Implement", created by breadbox, is a
Forgery.

breadbox's Reasoning:

Bash is the name of a former player. The real question is whether or
not the "-ing" form of a verb constitutes a "conventional English
morphological change" as described by Rule 506.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:36 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 425 (two-star)

two-star [again] has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 425
  Subject: Conventional English Morphology II
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: two-star (selected Jul 10, 1997, 22:29h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The trinket "Mister Cwm's Bench", created by breadbox, is a Forgery.

breadbox's Reasoning:

mr cwm is the name of a player. The real question is whether the full
spelling of "mr" constitutes a "conventional English morphological
change" as described by Rule 506.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:31:35 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 426 (/dev/joe)

/dev/joe has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 426
  Subject: Conventional English Morphology III
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: /dev/joe (selected Jul 10, 1997, 22:31h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The trinket "Mr X-Y-Z", created by breadbox, is a Forgery.

breadbox's Reasoning:

Mr X is the name of a former player. The real question here is whether
the hyphen (or dash?) between "X" and "Y" constitutes a word break, or
if "X-Y-Z" should be taken as a single word.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:33:52 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 427 (Mohammed)

Mohammed has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 427
  Subject: Conventional English Morphology IV
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: Mohammed (selected Jul 10, 1997, 22:33h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The trinket "Fon-due Set", created by breadbox, is a Forgery.

breadbox's Reasoning:

fon is the name of a former player. The real question, however, is
whether the name is still a separate word in the eyes of Rule 506
when it is connected to an adjective by a hyphen.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:36:14 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 428 (AZTEC G0D)

AZTEC G0D has been picked.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

Call For Judgment 428
  Subject: Conventional English Morphology V
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: AZTEC G0D (selected Jul 10, 1997, 22:36h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

The trinket "Malenkai-run Office", created by breadbox, is a Forgery.

breadbox's Reasoning:

Malenkai is the name of a player. The real question, however, is
whether the name is still a separate word in the eyes of Rule 506
when it is connected to an adjective by a hyphen.

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #189
*******************************