Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #188
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Thursday, July 10 1997        Volume 02 : Number 188

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 22:33:25 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gifts

> I am giving one bonus vote to Malenkai.

I ack.

#transfer /dev/joe,malenkai : 1 bv

Malenkai
on IRC now

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:39:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Monster!

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > Achem.   Zey said I was mad at zee Univercity, but I'll show zem, I'll
> > show zem ALL!!!  I vill suceed vhere all bevore me haf vailed!  I am
> > building a Monster and it's name is Trumpy!  Trumpy vould never hurt
> > anyvon!
> 
> Are you sure you can do this?  I was under the impression that you had
> to add to the other monster.
> 
> Malenkai

Speaking unofficialy, the rules don't seem to be very clear on this
matter.  Another thing to be fixed, no doubt.  I can say that this is what
Alfvaen did after he assumed the office from IdiotBoy, and no one
complained then.  I seem to have some game custom, or at least
precendence, to support me then.  I'm going to forge ahead as is, since I
clearly can't actually keep working on the secret, now lost, blueprint
under-construction for Lushrike.  If anyone has a real problem with this,
well I guess we'll see another series of convoluted CFJs and thread
splits, but I also intend to patch up the rules on Frankenstein some, so
if we can all just bear with this, hopefully the problem will be gone
soon.

                           - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:48:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Monster!

OK, well here's a thought as to how we could deal with this.  Since
Alfvaen is no longer the Mad Scientist, it is now perfectly legal for him
to send the text of the blueprint-under-construction to me (or anyone
else).  I could then continue to append parts to it, until he returns at
least (am I an acting Mad Scientist or the real deal now?).  If
neccessary, I can do the same thing for him when he gets back.  Of course,
this would imply that what I just tried to do failed miserably, and was
probably a Crime, but that's life in Acka.

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 22:46:38 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Monster!

> I can say that this is what Alfvaen did after he assumed the office
> from IdiotBoy, and no one complained then.  I seem to have some game
> custom, or at least precendence, to support me then. 

Well, I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but the situation is 
different.  The cases of taking over the office after someone has
left the game are substantially different than taking over the office
in an acting capacity for a player on vacation.  I appointed someone
for Alfvaen because the rules require me to, as I am a Scientist 
already, and cannot hold it by default.  It would seem in the spirit
of the game to sit on the office until Alfvaen came back, under the
circumstances. 

> I'm going to forge ahead as is, since I clearly can't actually keep
> working on the secret, now lost, blueprint under-construction for
> Lushrike.

I'm not sure the blueprint for Lushrike is "lost".

> If anyone has a real problem with this,

If it is against the rules, I have a problem with it, otherwise I do not.

Malenkai

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:58:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Monster!

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> > I can say that this is what Alfvaen did after he assumed the office
> > from IdiotBoy, and no one complained then.  I seem to have some game
> > custom, or at least precendence, to support me then. 
> 
> Well, I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but the situation is 
> different.  The cases of taking over the office after someone has
> left the game are substantially different than taking over the office
> in an acting capacity for a player on vacation.  I appointed someone
> for Alfvaen because the rules require me to, as I am a Scientist 
> already, and cannot hold it by default.  It would seem in the spirit
> of the game to sit on the office until Alfvaen came back, under the
> circumstances. 

the fact remains, however, that the blueprint for Stinky never actually
ceased construction, even though there was about a week between Alfvaen
taking the job and IdiotBoy leaving in which no one was even Mad
Scientist.  I realize that there are many differences here, but the cases
are fundamentaly about the same issue.

> 
> > I'm going to forge ahead as is, since I clearly can't actually keep
> > working on the secret, now lost, blueprint under-construction for
> > Lushrike.
> 
> I'm not sure the blueprint for Lushrike is "lost".
> 

What I menat by this was that, similar to when idiotBoy left us, the
secret blueprint was no longer in the hands of the mad Scientist.  As I
realized almost immediately after writting this, that meant that Alfvaen
could actually pass on what he had so far to me, since he isn't the Mad
Scientist at the moment.

> > If anyone has a real problem with this,
> 
> If it is against the rules, I have a problem with it, otherwise I do not.
> 
> Malenkai
> 

Heh, well that was my way of saying that I'm going to do it, and I'm not
going to worry about it's legality, since I don't think there's any real
answer to the whole thing.  I like my other idea better though, so perhaps
I'll actually be the one submitting the CFJ after all...

                               - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 06:02:54 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Rune Maker

I am creating 5 Otzma Cards. I am using the probabilistic method for all
of them.

The first OCID should be 134 

They are (in order of creation):

Untouch me
Tactical Retreat
Share my Expenses
Map Shard
Untouch Me

Niccolo Flychuck
RuneMaker

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 06:12:07 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Appointments

Right in the middle of the NAP Swinger's turn to.
Rex Mundi, if you are not on acka-chess, let me know. I'll send you the
details. The board position on the web page is the correct one (except for
the turn deadline)

Niccolo Flychuck
Chess-Umpire

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> I am appointing Rex Mundi NAP swinger.
> I am appointing Calvin N Hobbes Ackaphysicist.
> I am appointing Vynd Mad Scientist (by rule, I cannot remain it
> by default.  This points out one of the many holes in that rule).
> 
> The Prez should nominate a Justice.
> 
> Malenkai
> Speaker
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 06:23:24 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka:  Senate (Proposal 2212)

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:

> have found it convenient to keep it so.  Or, perhaps more to the point,
> no one has mustered sufficient support to change it.
Not yet:)

> 
> > This may also have to do with a difference as to how one views such
> > Institutions.  It seems to me that ThinMan views the Senate as
> > governing
> > body. I see Senators as public servants.
> > 
> I don't quite understand that comment.  There is no contradiction or
> conflict inherent in a governing body being constituted of public
> servants.  Indeed, I'm not sure whatNiccolo means when he says
> that I view the Senate as a "governing body."  I suspect that I
> disagree with his assessment, but I can't be sure until I know what
> he means.

It has to do with how one perceives government. On one pole we have
anarchism. Anarchists choose to be bound by nothing except for the social
contract, which loosely may be phrased as:one can do whatever one likes as
long as one does harm someone else.  On the opposite pole we have
totalistarianism - a government which controls every aspect of one's life.
Now, a community usualy requires some sort of an administration. In RL it
is the administration which would be responsible for maintenance of
utilities, among other things. The administration can be said to be a
function of the community, but it does not need to have any authority over
the members of the community.
IMO an ideal government would have very little authority, if any. Since it
is a function of the community, it should be responsible for the welfare
of the members of the community, as the community's proxy. Other than
that, it should interfere as little as possible.

I think the distinction here can be said to be  between a
ruling/administrative body, and a solely administrative body.

 > 
> I suppose that my statement may have sounded a bit harsh, but in
> context I think it was reasonable, justified, and correct.  All I
> meant by it is that Acka is run according to the collective will, not
> in response to individual voices.  I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
> 
> ThinMan

No offense taken.  I like these discussions.

Niccolo Flychuck

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 23:31:57 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Mad Scientist Situation

Rule 597:

> If no Blueprint for a Frankenstein Monster is currently *under 
> construction* [my emphasis], and no Frankenstein Monster is being
> built from a  Blueprint, the Mad Scientist shall begin construction
> of a Blueprint for a Frankenstein Monster by making a public
> announcement, in the proper accent, as follows: 

> Thereafter, the construction of a Blueprint for a Frankenstein Monster 
> named <name> is initiated.

Rule 596:

> The Mad Scientist's duty is to create Blueprints for, and 
> build, Frankenstein Monsters.

Rule 256:

> Upon a player leaving, the following procedure takes place, in the
> order shown.

> 2) The player is removed from all offices.  
The old rule 256 also said that a player who leaves the game is absolved
of all their duties.  It no longer says that, therefore the rules are
silent on the issue of player duties after the player leaves.  There
is ample game custom, however, to reasonably say that a player is 
absolved of all game duties when they leave the game; that is the way
we have been doing it since proposal 962, which created rule 256,
was accepted.

Thus, when IdiotBoy left, the BUC for Stinky was not destroyed, but
he was absolved of the duty of constructing the BUC, thus no construction
was going on.  However, the rule does not say 'if no BUC *exists*, then
a monster will be started'.  It says, 'if no BUC is *under construction*,
a monster is started'.  The rules quoted above are solid that at the time 
IdiotBoy left, there was no BUC under construction.

Thus Alfvaen's actions of starting the 2 monsters he did were legal.

The case of Alfvaen vacationing is different.  A player on vacation
retains their offices in general, thus Alfvaen is still Mad Scientist
and has the duties and restrictions associated with the office.  However,
the vacation rule restricts Alfvaen's performance of these duties,
and has precedence, thus he cannot perform them.  It does not *absolve*
him of the duties, IMO, though.  There is no rules or interpretations
thereof that I can find that say the BUC for Lushrike is destroyed, or
not in progress.

Thus, Lushrike's BUC exists, and construction of it is in progress.
Any attempts to start another BUC while this continues to be true
fail.

As acting Mad Scientist, Vynd has the duties and privileges of the
office.  Thus, he must, by rule, attach monster parts delivered to
him to the Lushrike BUC, but Alfvaen, by rule (either the vacation
rule or the monster rule), may not divulge information about the BUC.
That puts Vynd in the difficult position of attempting to follow the
rules blindly, by verifying the legality of attaching a part to the
BUC without knowing its text!  That's tough tomatoes, IMO, that is what
the rules mandate.  Vynd can always resign, and I can keep appointing
someone.

I agree the rule needs major work to handle these, and other situations,
and I have known about these problems for a while.  I just haven't had
the time then, or now, to fix it.  Perhaps someone else wants a go at
it.

Malenkai

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End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #188
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