Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #161
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Tuesday, June 24 1997        Volume 02 : Number 161

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:57:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Expert

I would like to petition the Senate for Expert status in the category of
Bandwidth-Wasting Gizz.

If the Senate would like a demonstration of why I believe I deserve such
status, I could refer it to the mail logs of the past eight weeks or so, or
I could write a little treatise on the various different kinds of BWG.  (If
one of the newspapers out there is willing to pay me a reasonable fee for
such work, I might see my way clear to providing it for their month-end
issue...)  If my relatively short span of time as an Ackanomian is an
issue, let me just say that BWG is a field known outside of Ackanomic as
well.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Sophie B. Hawkins:Tongues And Tails
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
Change for the machines.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:00:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: private: question: important ( W-File Report ) 

>
>
>Heh.  Believe me, I was surprised as you to be credited with it, though I
>would be glad to have written it.  (I'd volunteer for Krykecking myself,
>but I think being someone who hates the X-Files would make it more
>difficult.  If I am selected randomly, though, I will serve...)
>
>However, given the circumstances, I think breadbox and I should be Evil
>Twins.

I apologize if I needed to post a report and didn't.  Somehow I was
thinking that my volunteering was conditional and I never heard a reply,m
and then when breadbox posted his most excellent report I though tI was off
the hook.  Confusion form two abductions, indeed.

Mr. Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: private: question: important ( W-File Report )

> I apologize if I needed to post a report and didn't.  Somehow I was
> thinking that my volunteering was conditional and I never heard a
> reply,m and then when breadbox posted his most excellent report I
> though tI was off the hook.  Confusion form two abductions, indeed.

Part of the confusion was that I was randomly selected so
late. Another part was that I had seven days in which to post my
report, which I certainly took advantage of.

But what you volunteered for is the abduction that I mentioned at the
end of my report (Rule 407).

And pretty soon, the OiCoRT is going to have to select yet another
person to write another report. Let's hope they don't get confused
when you finally do post yours....

breadbox
aliens == work

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:25:54 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Alphabet RFC

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Aaron Humphrey wrote:

> > On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Aaron Humphrey wrote:
> > > Proposal Aleph Beth Gimel
> > 
> > While  a proposal citing the Hebrew alphabet is a good way to get my
> > attention I think there is no excuse for the rude explicit language used
> > below
> > 
> >  > 
> > > Create a new rule, numbered 349, with text as follows(delineated by ZAYIN):
> > 								     ^^^^^
> > > 
> > and there it is again:
> > 
> > > ZAYIN
> 
> I plead ignorance.  I have only the vaguest memory of a few Hebrew
> letters--the three in the title, and I thought that Z***N was another.  If

Actually it is, the seventh letter to be exact. But it is also Hebrew for
'dick' 
If there were more letter names in there, I would have assumed coincidence
immediately. 

> it was not, then I apologize unreservedly.  And if it is, and is still
> somehow rude, again, my apologies.  Nothing was aimed specifically at you;
> Greek letters are too common, and Hebrew is the only other alphabet I know
> where the letters have actual names.  A thousand, thousand apologies.

I was only semi-offended, semi-amused.  Otherwise I would have written you
privately first.  
Apology accepted. I won't vote on this Politeness Moon.

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> (I do have a tagline which I know is supposed to be extremely rude in
> Hungarian, but there's a story behind that one, which admittedly I've
> forgotten most of.  :-)
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:29:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Alphabet RFC

> > I plead ignorance.  I have only the vaguest memory of a few Hebrew
> > letters--the three in the title, and I thought that Z***N was another.  If
> 
> Actually it is, the seventh letter to be exact. But it is also Hebrew for
> 'dick' 

I did look it up, and in my dictionary it gives the meaning as "weapon".
Hmmm...  :-)  I can only imagine the inconveniences caused by having a
letter of one's alphabet with a rude connotation.  :-/

> If there were more letter names in there, I would have assumed coincidence
> immediately. 

Next time I'll use DALETH.  :-)

> > it was not, then I apologize unreservedly.  And if it is, and is still
> > somehow rude, again, my apologies.  Nothing was aimed specifically at you;
> > Greek letters are too common, and Hebrew is the only other alphabet I know
> > where the letters have actual names.  A thousand, thousand apologies.
> 
> I was only semi-offended, semi-amused.  Otherwise I would have written you
> privately first.  

Oh, good.  It's hard to tell these things over email somehow.  That's why I
sprinkle liberally with smilies.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Sophie B. Hawkins:Damn, I Wish I Was Your Lover
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
Why do words suddenly appear every time you are near?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:40:13 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2160

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Acrobot wrote:

I'm indifferent about the others, but I think this one has value and I'd
rather keep it. If it weren't for the inclusion of this one, I'd vote
present.

Niccolo Flychuck

> > Repeal R2101
> 
> [ Too much work and it simply isn't fair (I'm poor and that's fine). Plus
> there are blatantly easy way to get around it, given more paper work, so
> it's justuseless ]}}
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:10:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2160 (fwd)

Uri sent this to me privately (by accident I guess):
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Acrobot wrote:
> 
> I'm indifferent about the others, but I think this one has value and I'd
> rather keep it. If it weren't for the inclusion of this one, I'd vote
> present.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> > > Repeal R2101
> > 
> > [ Too much work and it simply isn't fair (I'm poor and that's fine). Plus
> > there are blatantly easy way to get around it, given more paper work, so
> > it's justuseless ]}}

	I must say I strongly disagree.  The rule is useless and
a bit irritating for exactly the reasons indicated.

- -- 
Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:38:56 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: IRC 

To my frineds on IRC.  My PPP connection is acting Spazoid tonight.  I do
not think I will be able to get back online.  Wish me luck.

Mr. Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:41:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Politeness Moon

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> Yes, it was Polite
	This nonsense gets old after a while.

- -- 
Mohammed
A Russian plans to lock dissident parrots in a big refrigerator.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:01:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Anti-Gumball RFC

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Malenkai wrote:
> This is Nomic, not comp sci 101.  As Mohammed has complained profusely
	My apologies for cluttering your mailbox.

- -- 
Mohammed
on IRC now

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:18:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Trombone

In the non-Azpiazu thread, I seem to have lost the Trombone sometime
yesterday.  And I didn't even get to lead a Parade...:-(  As far as I can
tell from glancing through the pointlogs, nobody else has _quite_ hit 76
points so far yet.

In the Azpiazu thread, of course, I still have it...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Tears For Fears:Woman In Chains
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
Producing a book is like typing a lot.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:24:35 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: An Interesting String

"Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz 126545361"

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Tears For Fears:Woman In Chains
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
A depth-first search may provide unusual rewards.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:26:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Bye Bye BV

According to the PE page(in both threads, probably), Mr. Lunatic Fringe has
illegal possession of 6 Bonus Votes.  By R317, one of those should have
been destroyed when he got it.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Tears For Fears:Woman In Chains
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
This is where international orange begins forever.  --billbill

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:17:27 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: private: question: important ( W-File Report )

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	Malenkai [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Monday, June 23, 1997 10:05 PM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Re: Acka: private: question: important ( W-File Report )

> I believe Alfvaen published it under "Four visitors: A Report". It's posted
> on my web pages.

Mr. Lunatic Fringe volunteered 6/16, 04:46.  I wasn't aware that the
duty could be transferred.  My apologizies.

Malenkai
incompetent Krykek-Harfer

Mentor o mentor can you guide me to info on what a krykek harfer is? And how does one vote on a politeness moon?

Proud protege
- -karma

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:08:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bye Bye BV

> According to the PE page(in both threads, probably), Mr. Lunatic Fringe has
> illegal possession of 6 Bonus Votes.  By R317, one of those should have
> been destroyed when he got it.

According to my records he had 2 bonus votes back when I started the
current entitylog in March; I forget how he got them.  In any case, he
found 4 more in one of these bogus treasures.  One of them was thus
destroyed by R317 when he found that treasure.

I have an interesting string to quote too, it is:

"Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz 426509875698"

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:28:32 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Trades, Transfers and Trinkets + karma's trinkets

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	Joseph W. DeVincentis [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, June 20, 1997 10:13 PM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Re: Acka: Trades, Transfers and Trinkets

> I am creating 5 trinkets, each of value A$1, called Monument to =
Futility
> Tickets 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.  Each is a rather dirty stub of pink paper.

> I am offering to sell these tickets according to the following =
criteria:
> To any player possessing RHG juice or a RHG, I will sell one in =
exchange
> for Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.  To all other players, I will sell
> one for A$6.

I'll buy MoF Ticket #3.

/dev/joe

This is a description in ascii format for my trinkets so they may be =
added to the titles on the trinkets list.
my kite mitt is a catchers mitt with a cord approx. 300000 ft long tha t =
will catch any trinkets or entities flung from a rubber band or any =
device now existing or later invented that could project trinkets or =
entities.

Bascules vacation lunch bag has bascule's name written on it in his =
mother's handwriting it is a crumpled recycled paper bag with a chip =
clip to preserve freshness inside is an egg sandwich on brown bread. =
It's purpose is to use in auctions as a surprise bag. any contents =
(along with the egg sandwich) may be entered into the bag and when =
auctioned become the property of the highest bidder.=20

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:31:45 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Tromino Go Duel (/dev &...

IF there is still  no referre for this Duel then I'll referee it.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:36:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: Tromino Go Duel (/dev &...

> IF there is still  no referre for this Duel then I'll referee it.

No, I believe there is not.  Thank you!

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--'Til Tuesday:The Other End of The Telescope
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
And that's why I had to kill them all.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:55:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: acka: Tromino Go Duel (/dev &...

> IF there is still  no referre for this Duel then I'll referee it.
> Niccolo Flychuck

Great.  Choose one of us to go first and we can get started.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:02:54 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: private: question: important ( W-File Report )

> Mentor o mentor can you guide me to info on what a krykek harfer is? And how does one vote on a politeness moon?

krykek harfer is just an expression, it means nothing.  Send votes to
me on the politeness moons, but you have to be unambiguous on which
moon you are voting on.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:03:32 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Big RFC

I don't know if we gain enough from portable/static to justify it.
The physical metaphor of Acka does have its absurd points now, (e.g.
If I chew the gumball and the anti-gumball at the same time in the 
Museum, why does stuff I left at home get vaporized while the museum 
collection is unharmed?) and the problem will be exascerbated by lunar 
travel-- (If I'm stuck on a moon with a broken spaceship, I shouln't be 
able to trade it to someone back on Earth who can fix it for me, or 
fetch another spaceship that I left at home.) OTOH, portability becomes 
one more thing to keep track of, and the system does seem to be working 
ok now.

Making treasures owned by a treasure entity (or chest, as Mohammed 
suggested) is reasonable, and conforms to the format that is already 
used on the player/entity (entity/entity?) page. Perhaps the current 
system of treasure numbering should be formalized at the same time. I 
think that making treasures Locations is a bad idea, if only because R 
845 Map asks the Map-harfer to include all Locations on the Map. If 
treasures must have a location, I think Somewhere Else ought to work, or 
perhaps Underground should be created as the location of all treasures.

If you do wish to propose this, I think  non-tradedable entities 
(excepting land an buildings) should be portable by default. I do not 
think of points, silver stripes, or even the Magic Potato as truly 
tangible entities; where such entities have names that suggest 
tangibility, I consider it to be just a mnemonic device. Wherever you 
go, they are still associated with you. (silver moons and the great tuba 
not excepted.) Of course this wouln't leave too much to be static. 
Perhaps these should go into an awards category as Mohammed suggested, 
along with the goose and mutations.

Another problem-- where is stuff that is owned by orgs? Somewhere Else 
does not seem to be an appropriate place. Perhaps orgs should require a 
defined home location.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:29:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  you guessed it

Yep, the bot is once again Down for the time being.  I'm trying
something different with the bot that should help performance a little
(with all these proposals it's been dragging; I'm sure you web-users
have noticed.)

So anyway, bot should be back up late late late tonight or tomorrow.
Sorry for the anxiety this is bound to create.

- -- 
Mohammed
A large percentage of violent Americans ran away with a Russian from
Honolulu a few days ago.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:46:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Re: Big RFC

> I don't know if we gain enough from portable/static to justify it.
> The physical metaphor of Acka does have its absurd points now, (e.g.
> If I chew the gumball and the anti-gumball at the same time in the 
> Museum, why does stuff I left at home get vaporized while the museum 
> collection is unharmed?) and the problem will be exascerbated by lunar 
> travel-- (If I'm stuck on a moon with a broken spaceship, I shouln't be 
> able to trade it to someone back on Earth who can fix it for me, or 
> fetch another spaceship that I left at home.) OTOH, portability becomes 
> one more thing to keep track of, and the system does seem to be working 
> ok now.

I don't want to break the system, but I'd like to allow for future
extensions of functionality(good lord, I sound like a software marketer)
by codifying entity locations now.  Should I start the easy way and define
every ownable entity as being in the same location as the player who owns
it?

> Making treasures owned by a treasure entity (or chest, as Mohammed 
> suggested) is reasonable, and conforms to the format that is already 
> used on the player/entity (entity/entity?) page. Perhaps the current 
> system of treasure numbering should be formalized at the same time. I 
> think that making treasures Locations is a bad idea, if only because R 
> 845 Map asks the Map-harfer to include all Locations on the Map. If 
> treasures must have a location, I think Somewhere Else ought to work, or 
> perhaps Underground should be created as the location of all treasures.

It might not be a bad idea to have several separate Somewhere Else-type
locations.  The Rules right now, as I said in a recent judgement, don't
make The Treasury and Somewhere Else separate Locations, and the Wilds of
Ackanomia is in there somewhere too.  Why not Underground as well?  Maybe
I'll work on this one in a while, or someone else can if they have more
time on their hands.

I do think I will split off the Museum and Treasure ownership bits into a
separate Proposal, since they don't necessarily fit with the other stuff,
and could survive without it.

> If you do wish to propose this, I think  non-tradedable entities 
> (excepting land an buildings) should be portable by default. I do not 
> think of points, silver stripes, or even the Magic Potato as truly 
> tangible entities; where such entities have names that suggest 
> tangibility, I consider it to be just a mnemonic device. Wherever you 
> go, they are still associated with you. (silver moons and the great tuba 
> not excepted.) Of course this wouln't leave too much to be static. 
> Perhaps these should go into an awards category as Mohammed suggested, 
> along with the goose and mutations.

Oh, god.  Are mutations entities too?  I sincerely hope not.  I don't
making Awards portable, but Trophies are something you keep in your
display case at home.  :-)  I went through and specified a lot of stuff's
portability because while I left default cases open, I'd rather specify
stuff I didn't have to than leave unspecified stuff I shouldn't.  I thought
about making a few more default cases, but every time I thought of one I
ran across an exception.

> Another problem-- where is stuff that is owned by orgs? Somewhere Else 
> does not seem to be an appropriate place. Perhaps orgs should require a 
> defined home location.

Well, the Church of Odo on the Wormhole owns a house...  Hmmm.  Must
rethink.  See, this is why I wanted to RFC...saves me them pesky two-point
penalties.  I'll probably submit the Museum/Treasure stuff in a few days,
but the Location stuff might require a bit more thought.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Timbuk 3:Edge of Allegiance
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:43:11 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Trades, Transfers and Trinkets

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- -----Original Message-----
From:	Joseph W. DeVincentis [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, June 20, 1997 10:13 PM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Re: Acka: Trades, Transfers and Trinkets

> I am creating 5 trinkets, each of value A$1, called Monument to Futility
> Tickets 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.  Each is a rather dirty stub of pink paper.

> I am offering to sell these tickets according to the following criteria:
> To any player possessing RHG juice or a RHG, I will sell one in exchange
> for Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice.  To all other players, I will sell
> one for A$6.

I'll buy MoF Ticket #3.

/dev/joe

I'll buy a ticket #5 if possiblr

- -karma

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------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1997 18:56:38 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Awards 

AC>>
AC>>Robert Sevin, despite subjecting us to a spamload of broken, un-fun, and/or
AC>>pointless proposals, as well as a couple actually beneficial ones, managed
AC>>to get a number of them to pass, apparently due to too many anti-voters
AC>>trying to take cheap points.  His 50th accepted proposal was one of those;
AC>>he has thus qualified for a 3rd Silver Stripe.

AC>If it wasn't for the fact that I get burned every time I call a PM, I
AC>certainly would do so here.  This is the rudest thing I have heard in a
AC>while, and this kind of thing is killing Ackanomic.  Don't believe me?  Ask
AC>the two observers that just left.

AC>Mr. Lunatic Fringe
AC>POd

If you don't feel like calling the PM, demand satisfaction in a Duel.
More harfy, and how enjoying to grind the egos of your oppressors into
the proverbial ground

:)

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1997 19:17:00 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2113 rejected (Spam Spam Spam Spam) 

AC>On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

AC>>
AC>> OK, I must ask Niccolo, Alfvaen, Atilla, Antimatter, breadbox, two-star,
AC>> snowgod, Bascule, and Guy Fawkes why you voted against this proposal.

AC>Sometimes I like to send proposals in big batches. Most of the time I just
AC>submit a proposal every few days. Sometimes I RFC, and then submit the
AC>actual proposal a long time afterwards, especially if it's not critical.
AC>But I don't like such a limit.

AC>Niccolo Flychuck

The only effect of this rule would have been to make large numbers of
submissions an eminently possible act, but one which would likely result
in a CFCJ.  By my calculations, the average judicial proceeding results
in a minimum of three public messages (usually five, though, and they
have been known to climb into the high teens).  In addition, each one
involves several additional posts (usually two, but occasionally three
, four, or even more) to the CotC.

Ironically, IMO, Criminalizing making work for FO's makes more work for
FO's

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #161
*******************************