Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #149
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Thursday, June 19 1997        Volume 02 : Number 149

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:33:18 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Internomic attitudes 

As Ambassador, I am asking the senators to conduct a vote on the following
two atitude change as specified in R2067.  Nothing requires them to do so.
(perhaps we ought to specify that as an action, the ambassador can initiate
a vote?)

1) Declare Internomic as an Ally to Ackanomic

Mr. Lunaitc Fringe
Ambassador

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:49:54 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Malenkai's Gaol Cell 

Malenkai's gaol cell is number 43/(43 x 10^12).  IT is just slightly bigger
than the entire world.  In the middle of it sits a drinking fountain.
There is a big flashing neon sign near the left edge, which, odly enough,
is round, that reads "A$1063" -- Which is the exat amount of a bribe I will
release him for :)

Mr. Lunatic Fringe
Gaoler

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:55:22 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Appeal for Pardon

I am appealing to the president for pardon, in case alot of game state
patching is required...

I point out, in the thread where that GOD rule was not accepted,
the alien rolls were done incorrectly.  I ask the tabulator to resolve
that thread, one way or the other, so that I may redo the rolls if
necessary.  This could get ugly.

Malenkai
using his second message

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:48:41 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Tailor 

I am amending "Beldin's Pants" By changing the word "creator" to "recipient".

Mr. Lunatic Fringe
Beldin's Tailor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:46:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Witchhunt 101

>>  All in all, I must say that seeing this proposal pass is the
>> biggest shock I've had since I discovered the Earth was r*und.
>
>Yaay! I call for a Witchhunt on Vynd. I always knew he was a witch.
>[Although this is probably deliberate, to get himself Enlightened...]

  I call for a witchhunt on whoever posted this.
  BwaHaHa!

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:55:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players (breadbox, Mr. Fringe)

><blink>  I'm the Registrar?  Or I'm the official Heed-Payer and Immediate 
>Exterminator?

  The extermination bit.  Or aren't you the Mad Scientist?

>Try is no there, do only.
>OR
>Different all twisty a of in maze are you, passages little.

  ROTFL!

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:59:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Internomic attitudes

>As Ambassador, I am asking the senators to conduct a vote on the following
>two atitude change as specified in R2067.  Nothing requires them to do so.
>(perhaps we ought to specify that as an action, the ambassador can initiate
>a vote?)

  Two?

>1) Declare Internomic as an Ally to Ackanomic
>

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:09:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Internomic attitudes 

>As Ambassador, I am asking the senators to conduct a vote on the following
>two atitude change as specified in R2067.  Nothing requires them to do so.
>(perhaps we ought to specify that as an action, the ambassador can initiate
>a vote?)

Probably a good idea (to make that an official action). Remember, you need
to vote also.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:07:48 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Tailor

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> I am amending "Beldin's Pants" By changing the word "creator" to "recipient".
> 
> Mr. Lunatic Fringe
> Beldin's Tailor

Much as I was tempted to keep this in circulation as an evil hot 
potato-- (/dev/joe and Thin Man, count yourselves lucky,) I am donating 
Beldin's Parka to the Museum. As a further insult to the arts and 
antiquities communities, I am destroying all of the Inky Bloater Decoys 
except 50-99 (better safe than sorry)and 137. (actually, the arts and 
antiquities communities shouldn't mind the destruction of 
counterfeits.) I am donating Inky Bloater Decoy 137 to the Museum.

#award two-star: :Hmm. not exactly sure what to do here.

I apologize to the financier for all the trouble these bloater decoys 
have caused, but if e could fix this one more time, I promise I will 
never pull this sort of trick again.

#transfer two-star Museum: Beldin's Parka, Inky Bloater Decoy 137

**two-star
King of Shovels and Protector of the Inky Bloater.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:38:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P2059 accepted (Amung Gods)

> >     Actually, to say that something "is Somewhere Else" is not to
> > say that it is *in* your house, (that would be "is in Somewhere Else")
> > but rather, that it *is* your house.  Everything not owned by some
> > entity is your house.

Well, actually, most the the references to "Somewhere Else" in the rules
say that the thing "goes" or "goes to" Somewhere Else, but some rules do
say that something is somewhere else; for instance, the 4th paragraph of
the Great Trombone's rule:

  If the player who possesses the Great Trombone leaves the game, they 
  automatically relinquish possession of it, and the Great Trombone is 
  once again said to be Somewhere Else.

and in the second paragraph of the Cabinet:

  ... When there is no President, The Cabinet is Somewhere Else. ...

Red Barn wrote:
>   Funny, I was just thinking that.  I am renaming my house to "FALSE".  I
> now own a number of CFJs. :-)

Actually, you just own one of the possible judgements.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P2059 accepted (Amung Gods)

>Red Barn wrote:
>>   Funny, I was just thinking that.  I am renaming my house to "FALSE".  I
>> now own a number of CFJs. :-)
>
>Actually, you just own one of the possible judgements.

  Oh, well.  Possibly justices have to ask permission to use my house? :-)

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:56:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Players (breadbox, Mr. Fringe)

> ><blink>  I'm the Registrar?  Or I'm the official Heed-Payer and Immediate 
> >Exterminator?
> 
>   The extermination bit.  Or aren't you the Mad Scientist?

Ah, I see!  But zat does not necessarily mean zat I am in zee extermination
business!  I prefer to sink of it as annihilation, myself!  I mean, vat am
I, a Dalek!?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Dr. Hook:Sexy Eyes
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
He had to wear something on his wrist or his hand would fall off.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:52:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: acka: buying pointy ears

Rex Mundi sent a public message dated as follows (the top line is the time
I received it, in CDT = -0500):

> From owner-ackanomic  Wed Jun 18 19:28:20 1997
> From: "Gavin Doig" <[email-masked]>
> To: "ackanomic" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: acka: buying pointy ears
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:13:59 +0100

The date this was marked as being sent corresponds to Jun 19 19:13 EDT,
or almost a full day after I received it.  Rex, please fix your computer's
clock (it is 1 day ahead of the correct time).  Others, please note that
Rex's message may have incorrect dates.

The worst part is that apparently he really thought it was the right time:
                                                    vvvvvvvv
> #award Rex Mundi: -6 buying pointy ears mutation: 20/06/97
> 
> Rex Mundi.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:06:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Literature

Until such time as we have a librarian, it seems to fall under the duty of
the scorekeeper to verify Literature.  As such, I have found links to
some of the Literature on the official list, and linked them in that rule's
text.  The bible link I found is a poorly arranged, framed page which doesn't
even have the frames set up large enough to accomodate the text within them,
so there is probably a better one; I stopped on the first appropriate page I
found.

I have verified that P2073 is literature, and Robert Sevin receives one
extra point because of this.  [I still find it tasteless that RS added an
entirely unrelated quote at the bottom of that proposal, in a comment,
that serves no purpose other than to increase his score.]

By the way, Robert Sevin's eggplant was destroyed a couple days ago, when a
proposal he wrote passed and raised his score to zero exactly.  (Now he's
at 17 or so.)  This will help him greatly should he recieve the full
punishment in the CFCJ against him.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:19:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Calling

After much soul-searching, I have decided to request membership in the
Church of the Markovian Dream.  (Okay, I can't resist a Jack L. Chalker
reference. :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Astrud Gilberto:Agua De Beber
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
Honey, when you go to the store, pick up some glue traps.  We've got turtles.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:36:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Land Baroncy

I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
A$193.  This does not result in my owning more than 4 kaa of land, so I
don't need approval from the Senate or anything.

#award Alfvaen: -193 A$, 4 kaa of land : buying land

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Astrud Gilberto:Agua De Beber
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
Greenness disintegrates.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:42:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Literature 

>I have verified that P2073 is literature, and Robert Sevin receives one
>extra point because of this.  [I still find it tasteless that RS added an
>entirely unrelated quote at the bottom of that proposal, in a comment,
>that serves no purpose other than to increase his score.]

Is my score really that threatingly high? C'mon, throw me a bone. Besides,
if the recent CFCJ I called gets judged against me (as I hope it will be), I
stand to lose a billion points.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:44:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Literature

> >I have verified that P2073 is literature, and Robert Sevin receives one
> >extra point because of this.  [I still find it tasteless that RS added an
> >entirely unrelated quote at the bottom of that proposal, in a comment,
> >that serves no purpose other than to increase his score.]
> 
> Is my score really that threatingly high? C'mon, throw me a bone. Besides,
> if the recent CFCJ I called gets judged against me (as I hope it will be), I
> stand to lose a billion points.

Yeah, but R206.2 will change that to zero anyway.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Elvis Costello:Less Than Zero
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
He drew a blank, then erased it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:49:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Literature 

>> Is my score really that threatingly high? C'mon, throw me a bone. Besides,
>> if the recent CFCJ I called gets judged against me (as I hope it will be), I
>> stand to lose a billion points.
>
>Yeah, but R206.2 will change that to zero anyway.  :-)

I know. I thought of that about a day after I wrote the CFCJ. I really
wanted to spend some time hanging around at -1,000,000,000 points.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:56:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Literature

I wrote:
> >I have verified that P2073 is literature, and Robert Sevin receives one
> >extra point because of this.  [I still find it tasteless that RS added an
> >entirely unrelated quote at the bottom of that proposal, in a comment,
> >that serves no purpose other than to increase his score.]

RS responded: 
> Is my score really that threatingly high? C'mon, throw me a bone.

I know your score is low, and I know this was just one measly point, but
it sets a precedent, and I feel it's an abuse of the rule.  Putting the
quotation in a comment like that is OK by me if it is relevant to the
text of the proposal, but I will vote against any proposal which adds
random, unrelated quotes at the bottom to score extra points.  To me,
it's just like voting against unintelligible palindromes and
palindromes which use 'creative' quoted strings.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:15:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Land Baroncy

> I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
> and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
> A$193.  This does not result in my owning more than 4 kaa of land, so I
> don't need approval from the Senate or anything.

You mean it doesn't result in you having more than 5 kaa of land.
It results in you having exactly 5 kaa of land (incl. Tamson House),
more than 4, but the rule says only purchases of more than 5 kaa
must be approved by the senate.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Land Baroncy

> > I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
> > and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
> > A$193.  This does not result in my owning more than 4 kaa of land, so I
> > don't need approval from the Senate or anything.
> 
> You mean it doesn't result in you having more than 5 kaa of land.
> It results in you having exactly 5 kaa of land (incl. Tamson House),
> more than 4, but the rule says only purchases of more than 5 kaa
> must be approved by the senate.

I think that was just a typo.  :-/  I had the text of the rule right in
front of me(well, in another window), so I knew what I meant.  (And the
rule also says that purchases that would result in the ownership of more
than 5 kaa of land require approval too.)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Astrud Gilberto:Once I Loved
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
A sticky wicket runs deep.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:55:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka Favor 

Hey Alfvaen, could I borrow your Gravitational Monopole? Thanks...

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:01:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Favor

> Hey Alfvaen, could I borrow your Gravitational Monopole? Thanks...

Sure thing.

#transfer Alfvaen, Robert Sevin: Gravitational Monopole : lending

Hey, why don't you take my Miniature Tower Replica, too?

#transfer Alfvaen, Robert Sevin: Miniature Tower Replica : gift

Now that that's out of the way(thanks, RS...:-), I am going to the
vacant kaa of land at K9 which I just bought, where, since it is the
third Thursday of the month, and also a prime date greater than 7, I am
chewing the Gumball and the Anti-Gumball.  (I wasn't going to, but nobody
else had, so, drama dictates...)

I can't wait for Malenkai to get out of Gaol so I can find out what just
happened to me...:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Deee-Lite:Groove Is In The Heart
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
The more things change, the more they remain things.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:34:17 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: reply to stuff

4 different thoughts for the price of one.

- ---

Red Barn:

> >Yaay! I call for a Witchhunt on Vynd. I always knew he was a witch.
> >[Although this is probably deliberate, to get himself Enlightened...]
> 
>   I call for a witchhunt on whoever posted this.
>   BwaHaHa!

This doesn't happen.  The author of the content in question did
not post it, and CFJ 274 does not apply because the author could
not 'reasonably' assume that his text would be posted, unlike the case
of CFJ 274.  Also, please do your own research on "whoever posted 
this" in the future.  I am not a bot :)

- ---

Alfvaen:

> I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
> and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
> A$193.

Doesn't rule 500 make that A$194?:

> When any rule or anything else empowered by the rules specifies a
> fractional number of entities are created, destroyed, transferred, 
> or otherwise operated upon, that action uses the least integer
> greater than the fractional number in place of the fractional number.  

- ---

Alfvaen:

>  I am creating a trinket called "Remember To RFC", worth A$2.

If I could, I would call a CPPIA on this ;-)

- ---

> Proposal 2129
> False Modesty

> If a player disagrees about the modesty rating of a Proposal, e may call
> for a Hearing at any time the Proposal is in the queue, specifying what
> modesty rating e thinks the Proposal should have(which must be different
> from the Proposal's current modesty rating).

I like the concept, but find the proposed solution open for abuse, and
must vote NO.  Some, but not all of the potential abuse, stems from the
fundamental problem of Hearings in that there is no risk in calling
one.  The classic case is the Witchhunt rule, which is abused to no
end.  I already have a proposed amendment to the Hearing rule in mind
to correct this, but I'm not sure I like it.  Oh well.

Malenkai
in Gaol

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:59:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Witchhunt 101

On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, A.K.A. TheWiz wrote:

> >>  All in all, I must say that seeing this proposal pass is the
> >> biggest shock I've had since I discovered the Earth was r*und.
> >
> >Yaay! I call for a Witchhunt on Vynd. I always knew he was a witch.
> >[Although this is probably deliberate, to get himself Enlightened...]
> 
>   I call for a witchhunt on whoever posted this.
>   BwaHaHa!
> 

I seriously doubt this was a legal call.  It was sent to the private list,
and that kind of implies it wasn't public, although I've had trouble with
the Postal Code before so I may be wrong.  It doesn't actually name the
person that the witchhunt is against, and I am pretty sure you have to.
All of this is moot, however, because the whoever in question is our most
Enlightened Count Tabula, Gaolbird Malenkai.

                                       - Vynd

[email-masked]

                               

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:12:26 +0100
From: "Gavin Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: buying pointy ears

> The date this was marked as being sent corresponds to Jun 19 19:13 EDT,
> or almost a full day after I received it.  Rex, please fix your
computer's
> clock (it is 1 day ahead of the correct time).  Others, please note that
> Rex's message may have incorrect dates.
> 
> The worst part is that apparently he really thought it was the right
time:
>                                                     vvvvvvvv
> > #award Rex Mundi: -6 buying pointy ears mutation: 20/06/97

I've, uh, fixed the date. Don't know how this happened, or why I never
noticed before, so I'll just blame it on Win95.

Rex Mundi, wearing a pair of very pink pointy ears.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Land Baroncy

On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Aaron Humphrey wrote:

> 
> I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
> and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
> A$193.  This does not result in my owning more than 4 kaa of land, so I
> don't need approval from the Senate or anything.
> 
> #award Alfvaen: -193 A$, 4 kaa of land : buying land

Um, did you sell your house or something Alfvaen?  I'm awful close to
certain it comes with some land attached.

                            - Senator Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:43:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2071 accepted (Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die) 

>> Two consecutive proposals by Calvin N Hobbes passed, this one with more
>> than 100% of the active players voting on it.
>> Isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse? :-) :-)
>
>I guess we'll just have to vote for P2103...

In the immortal words of our mad scientist...  BwaHaHa! I wonder who our
first Zombie Master will be. Any bets?

I will now create 4 trinkets, each followed by its description.

First a trinket called Vilya for A$100.

This trinket is Majik. It is sapphire bullet of pure love number 801. Vilya
is the First of the Three Rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky. It is a
ring of gold with a great blue stone.

Another called Nenya for A$100.

This trinket is Majik. It is sapphire bullet of pure love number 802. Nenya
is the Second of the Three Rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky. It is a
ring of mithril bearing a single white stone that flickers like a frosty star.

Another called Narya the Great for A$100.

This trinket is Majik. It is sapphire bullet of pure love number 803. Narya
the Great is the Third of the Three Rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky.
It is a ring of silver with a stone upon it red as fire.

And a fourth called The One for A$100.

This trinket is Majik. It is sapphire bullet of pure love number 800. It is
a ring of pure gold with some delicate elvish inscriptions inside. The
inscription says: 'One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne, on the top side
of Acka where the Shadows lie. One ring to rule them all, One ring to find
them, One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.'

And someday...

Calvin N Hobbes

#trinket Calvin N Hobbes: 100 : Vilya
#trinket Calvin N Hobbes: 100 : Nenya
#trinket Calvin N Hobbes: 100 : Narya the Great
#trinket Calvin N Hobbes: 100 : The One

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:24:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: reply to stuff

> Alfvaen:
> 
> > I am hereby buying 4 kaa of land: those marked on the Map as A5, G5, H1,
> > and K9.  At the current price, that will come to A$193.816, rounded down to
> > A$193.
> 
> Doesn't rule 500 make that A$194?:
> 
> > When any rule or anything else empowered by the rules specifies a
> > fractional number of entities are created, destroyed, transferred, 
> > or otherwise operated upon, that action uses the least integer
> > greater than the fractional number in place of the fractional number.  

I could swear that there's a clause in "Land Baroncy" that says land
payments are rounded down.  Yes, here it is:  "Any player may purchase a
kaa of empty, common land by paying the current Price of Land(rounded down
to the nearest whole number of A$)to the treasury".  Rule 500 doesn't come
into effect because the price is rounded down before any transfer is
specified.

However, thank you for pointing this out--according to this, I bought 4 kaas
of land for A$48 each, which is only A$192!

#award Alfvaen : A$1 : rounding error, the wrong way

> >  I am creating a trinket called "Remember To RFC", worth A$2.
> 
> If I could, I would call a CPPIA on this ;-)

I was thinking that it could be used to test one or two new rules.  Maybe I
could submit it for the Cabinet, but I don't think Mohammed has a problem
with shyness to RFC.  :-)

> > Proposal 2129
> > False Modesty
> 
> > If a player disagrees about the modesty rating of a Proposal, e may call
> > for a Hearing at any time the Proposal is in the queue, specifying what
> > modesty rating e thinks the Proposal should have(which must be different
> > from the Proposal's current modesty rating).
> 
> I like the concept, but find the proposed solution open for abuse, and
> must vote NO.  Some, but not all of the potential abuse, stems from the
> fundamental problem of Hearings in that there is no risk in calling
> one.  The classic case is the Witchhunt rule, which is abused to no
> end.  I already have a proposed amendment to the Hearing rule in mind
> to correct this, but I'm not sure I like it.  Oh well.

I get to feeling like I've retracted too many Proposals sometimes.  I'm
going to let this one ride through, to defeat if necessary, losing five
more points that I would have for retraction, sort of like the Librarian
proposal(which I don't particularly expect to pass).  I have to take a
stand somewhere.  :-)

Maybe if there's a clause about a player only getting to call one such
Hearing a(calendar)week...?

Perhaps, rather than retracting it, I'll submit an immediate amendment
Proposal.  Or someone else can.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Tammy Wynette:Tears of Fire 3
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
A fool and his monkey are soon parted.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:27:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  P2071 accepted (Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die)

> In the immortal words of our mad scientist...  BwaHaHa! I wonder who our
> first Zombie Master will be. Any bets?

No point, now that the Narfalones aren't around any more.  Or does that
just mean that bets are no longer legislated by the Rules?  Anyway, we
won't be able to find out until 2:00 AM Ackatime at the earliest anyway.

What I find a more interesting bet is which Undead will be chosen!  Of
course, as a new player I don't remember any of them as active(except
vicariously, from reading of the email logs)...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Tammy Wynette:Tears of Fire 3
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
I gotta go - I'm expecting another call from you any minute.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: reply to stuff

>>> If a player disagrees about the modesty rating of a Proposal, e
>>> may call for a Hearing at any time the Proposal is in the queue,
>>> specifying what modesty rating e thinks the Proposal should
>>> have(which must be different from the Proposal's current modesty
>>> rating).
>> 
>> I like the concept, but find the proposed solution open for abuse, and
>> must vote NO.  Some, but not all of the potential abuse, stems from the
>> fundamental problem of Hearings in that there is no risk in calling
>> one.  The classic case is the Witchhunt rule, which is abused to no
>> end.  I already have a proposed amendment to the Hearing rule in mind
>> to correct this, but I'm not sure I like it.  Oh well.
> 
> Maybe if there's a clause about a player only getting to call one such
> Hearing a(calendar)week...?

But why do you want to do this in the first place? Modesty and
Grandioseness were never intended to indicate that proposal was modest
or grandiose in the normal, English usage of the words. The three
indicators are simply a tactic. A strategy, if you will.

If you've written a proposal, and you suspect that other players might
vote against it because it isn't "worth" the full ten points, you can
mark it Modest to improve its chances. Furthermore, people who vote
against a Modest proposal don't get points for doing so. It's just a
way to encourage people to vote for it.

(The concept of Modesty, for those unfamiliar with its origins, was
originally created because people were occasionally loathe to write
proposals to make little Rule changes [such as fixing up critical
typos beyond the reach of the Spelling Bee], lest they be seen as
attempting to scam easy points. And, occasionally, such a proposal
would seem so certain to pass that too many people would vote against
it in order to get a few points. While this interplay is fun, it had
the negative effect of discouraging doing simple Rule-cleanup.)

Thus, if a Hearing could force a Proposal to lose its Modesty, it
might well have the effect of reducing its chances of passing at all.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:53:59 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Internomic attitudes 

>>As Ambassador, I am asking the senators to conduct a vote on the following
>>two atitude change as specified in R2067.  Nothing requires them to do so.
>>(perhaps we ought to specify that as an action, the ambassador can initiate
>>a vote?)
>
>  Two?

There were two, until I reread the internomic rule and noticed that pesky
little *other*

Mr. L. Fringe
rosebud

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:29:10 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Trinkets

I am creating a trinket called Parka, valued at A$30.
#trinket Malenkai : Parka : 30

Parka is covered with bright yellow and blue swirls, and it keeps 
one warm when travelling to the edge of the earth.  Ancient myth has
it, that like most things, it is better to give Parka than to receive
it.

- ---

I am creating a trinket called Military lasers, valued at A$30.
#trinket Malenkai : Military lasers : 30

Military lasers are small hand held units that make a pleasant hum
when used.  It is well known that you do not want to take Military
lasers with you when treasure hunting, and *never* fire them at
Aliens, unless you are in a bomb shelter.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:30:02 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: New Blueprint

I am creating a Blueprint for a Pulse Laser.  I believe the Blueprint
has 27 sentences.

#award Malenkai : -3 processing chips

Malenkai
Wizard
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

Pulse Laser

A Pulse Laser is a mechanical gadget.  It is mounted on a solid brass
base, from which it conveniently swivels.  It is about 3 meters long,
but it is amazingly light.  It has leather handgrips for easy control,
and a slot near the handgrips for fuel.  On its left side are 4 buttons:
2 red ones, a yellow one, followed by another red one.  Only the
yellow one has any function.  Initially it is unbroken.

Due to its size, it must be aimed from the top of a Tower, (and 
therefore may only be aimed when its possessor is in a Location with a
Tower).  The Laser is used by following this procedure:

a) Its possessor aims it at a Proposal under voting consideration by 
announcing the Proposal's number publically, along with a brief
description of what the Laser's beam is going to do to the Proposal
when it hits (the content of the description has no actual effect).

b) Its possessor puts one Otzma card and a quantity of A$ equal to the
proposal number divided by 13 into the fuel slot.  The A$ are immediately
transferred to the Treasury by the Laser, and the Otzma card is destroyed
by the Laser.

c) The Laser warms up for 24 hours.  While doing so, it makes an
annoying pulsing noise that can be heard in an approximately 3 kaa
radius around where it is being used.  It is not possible to get any
sleep while in the radius of this earsore.  It is said that this sound
will attract the attention of Aliens, and its significance is rumored 
to be described in the pages of the Codex of Kra...

d) At any time after the completion of the warm up period, provided
the Laser was unbroken for the duration of this procedure, and 
provided the Proposal in question is still under voting consideration,
its possessor may press the yellow button as a public action.  Upon
doing so, a chartreuse beam from the Laser will zap the Proposal into
oblivion; the Laser will render the Proposal invalid, removing it
from voting consideration.  The Laser will also deduct 5 points from
the author of the Proposal's score, if the author is a player.  If
the button remains unpressed, the annoying pulsing noise will continue
until the Laser is broken, destroyed, or re-aimed (re-aiming terminates
an instance of this procedure, and starts another one).

e) Immediate After effects of the zapping: If the Proposal in question
was Guarded, the Laser will short out and explode, destroying the Tower
it is being aimed from, and then destroying itself in a radioactive
fireball.  Otherwise, if the Proposal in question's number was prime,
the Laser will backfire and break.  These Ancients, poor quality 
control, silly design, and odd choice of component materials :(.

f) In any case, the pulsing stops, as does this procedure.

A Laser need not be aimed, only unbroken, for it to have the following
effects:

1) If a Proposal is ever submitted that is substantially similar in
the game effect it would have if accepted to a Proposal zapped by a
particular Laser in the past 30 days, that Laser immediately invalidates
that Proposal and removes it from consideration (without any other
after effects), as there is still the vestiges of a field remaining
from the previous zapping.

2) If a player possessing a Laser also possesses a Widget of Yendor,
the Laser immediately breaks, as it is well known that the field from
the Widget gizzes out the Laser's computer systems.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:51:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 2129

> >{{ Increase the player Calvin N Hobbes' score by 5 points.  [At least one
> >of P2070 and P2071 was not, IMHO, modest, and I am shocked that CnH would
> >have undervalued his proposals so.  That is what this Proposal is in
> >response to.  Perhaps I should have put more restrictions on it, but we'll
> >see if it is abused or not.] }}

> Gee. Thanks. I've just repaid some debts to Mohammed and /dev/joe, but now
> I'd be in yours. Of course, I don't think my props were that "unmodest",
> rather negligeable in the grand scheme of things.

Obviously I have a more inflated sense of my Proposals' worth.  Some of
them have been marked as immodest mainly because I forgot to, but in
general anything that makes a new rule is not Modest, IMHO.  I would
definitely have voted for "Zombie Master" had it not been modest.  If
you're in doubt, let me know before you submit a Proposal and I'll tell you
whether it's modest or not.  :-)  (Now's where you smack me as a young
upstart.)

> As for the proposal itself, I have to agree with breadbox on a number of
> things. A long time ago -- so long ago I don't exactly remember, memories of
> before my first quickening aren't great [rambling, rambling] -- a long time
> ago one of my "sure thing" proposals (he he he) failed and some people said
> they had voted against it because it wasn't modest. So unless it's really
> important, modest proposals are what I write.

I'd like to hear some other opinions on this one--whose votes on recent
Proposals have been changes because of the Modesty, or lack thereof, of the
Proposal?  I rarely take it much into consideration; although one of
Malenkai's three-word-twiddle Proposals would certainly garner a "No" vote
if they weren't Modest, I just don't think to check.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Kashtin
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
'My name is Inigo Montoya.  You stole my .sig quote.  Prepare to die.'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:53:14 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: another interesting string

Guy Fawkes wrote:
 
> "Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz 14543545399156"

Guy Fawkes has found treasure 160.
#transfer buried,Guy Fawkes : 4 bonusvote :

The map was:

T160 Map: Post 'Jukkasjarvi Cheez-Whiz 14543545399156' as a quoted string to
the public forum.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:59:19 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: reply to stuff

> But why do you want to do this in the first place? Modesty and
> Grandioseness were never intended to indicate that proposal was modest
> or grandiose in the normal, English usage of the words. The three
> indicators are simply a tactic. A strategy, if you will.
> 
> If you've written a proposal, and you suspect that other players might
> vote against it because it isn't "worth" the full ten points, you can
> mark it Modest to improve its chances. Furthermore, people who vote
> against a Modest proposal don't get points for doing so. It's just a
> way to encourage people to vote for it.

And I don't see it that way at all.  If I have a Proposal that I think
makes enough of a change not to be Modest, I won't make it Modest just to
make it more likely to pass.  I'd rather I got an honest evaluation of what
people thought of it, IMHO.  (Well, maybe more Pompous than Humble...)

I think it's a shame that CnH's fine proposals were marked with Modesty
merely because he they would not pass otherwise.  This is mitigated
somewhat by the harfy bonus on 2070, but I think they would have passed
without being Modest.

Of course, for those who genuinely believe in their Proposals, feel free
to make them Modest to make their chances better.  I'd rather just slip
Tammany a few A$.  :-)  (And I still haven't used the Bonus Vote...)  And
some of my Proposals I make specifically to test the waters, to see if the
mood of Ackanomic is favourable towards such an idea.  The Modesty issue
would, IMHO, obscure that.

> (The concept of Modesty, for those unfamiliar with its origins, was
> originally created because people were occasionally loathe to write
> proposals to make little Rule changes [such as fixing up critical
> typos beyond the reach of the Spelling Bee], lest they be seen as
> attempting to scam easy points. And, occasionally, such a proposal
> would seem so certain to pass that too many people would vote against
> it in order to get a few points. While this interplay is fun, it had
> the negative effect of discouraging doing simple Rule-cleanup.)

> Thus, if a Hearing could force a Proposal to lose its Modesty, it
> might well have the effect of reducing its chances of passing at all.

What I'm hoping is that "worthy" proposals would still pass.  Something
that people don't consider worth voting against because it's only modest,
but that they wouldn't vote for otherwise...  I would hope that Hearing
results would reflect the opinions on the Players on the issue, although I
suppose that won't be necessarily the case.

If it doesn't pass, I'll just have to submit Proposals to give people extra
points for overestimating the Modesty of their ideas...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Kashtin
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
I feel a tug on the line...which end will I be on this time?
   [Stan Ridgway & Stewart Copeland, "Don't Box Me In"]

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #149
*******************************