Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #143
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Tuesday, June 17 1997        Volume 02 : Number 143

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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:47:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC)

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> So, ThinMan, welcome once again. Do you happen to have any input on
> the CFCJ 135 appeal?
> 
> Regardless of Malenkai's appeal reasoning, I do think that the penalty
> is quite excessive, especially seeing as how he scammed Organized
> Crime. More to the point, since the money he took was from an
> independent Organization, and not the Treasury, I am inclined to drop
> the monetary penalty entirely. I am also not entirely favorable to
> punishing a legal scam through the medium of a CFCJ on a (necessarily
> separate) Crime.
> 
> Another point on this line, which Malenkai did not address, is that
> the Organized Crime rule says:

Actually, the whole Organized Crime rule has been repealed.  I wonder if
this affects the status of malenkai's Crime?  Well, anyway, I think that
the punishment was excessive as well.  Taking away all of the money that
he got in the scam is poetic justice, perhaps, but in a more rational
light probably too much as well.  I think that breadbox stresses a very
good point, Malenkai's Godfather scam wsa perfectly legal, it's admiting
that he was a member of the Narfalones that was a Crime, and is what he is
being persecuted, err, prosecuted, for.  I must urge that the penalty be
lightened a great deal on the appeal.

> 
> > 2. Publicly admitting to belonging to the Narfalone Family is a
> > crime, punishable by no more than 5 days in gaol.
> 
> I read this as saying that *only* gaol sentences can be imposed, as
> well as setting an upper limit of 5 days. Of course, I doubt whether
> this clause actually has any effect, but just using it as a rule of
> thumb....
> 
> Thoughts?

Seems like a reasonable interpretaion, but not the only one.  A CFJ may
well be necessary, but I'm not going to write it. =P

> 
> breadbox
> 

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:35:52 -0400
From: "Michael James" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka

This is a disclaimer on grounds of ignorance of the email law!

I have officially changed my mime format outlook email service to ASCII I
hope this will erradicate any discomfort, anger, or if I've offended 
Malenkai (just kiddin' mentor) or frustrated anyone I am trying my best to
fix this. 
- ---end disclaimer 

I wish to thank everyone for their input on how to put this matter at rest,
and double thanks to my exceptional mentor malenkai for offering to take a
stab at fixing my picture on the gallery.

this has been announced to you by karma who waivers any cfcj that might
pertain to "gizz in your email" (jeez I hope this is the right page to post
this.) BTW when I make a send from acka. home page it tells me not all of
the recipients r getting my email is this a phenomena?

- -karma (slowlty learnin' rules and forgetting them faster) 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka

> I have officially changed my mime format outlook email service to
> ASCII I hope this will erradicate any discomfort, anger, or if I've
> offended Malenkai (just kiddin' mentor) or frustrated anyone I am
> trying my best to fix this.

Your change has fixed the "problem". I for one extend heartfelt thanks
to you for taking the time to remedy this.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:10:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Treasures Found

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, jordan james wrote:

>  
> 

Honest.  That's the text of the message, as far as my mailer is concerned.
There was some stuff about MIME format, but I can't deal with that any
better than the rest of us, it seems (well, it doesn't crash me at least).

                              - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> Mr. Lunatic Fringe, while *still* looking for his lost hat, as 
> found the Magic Potato this time, and has the privelege of playing
> Beldin's Tailor.
> 
> Aliens:
> 
> 2003
>  407 <-- "Web-Harfer"

OK, I'll bite.  What happens now?  I hope that /dev/joe will continue on
in an unofficial capacity for the week, and assume this is possible.  he's
obviously not required to do anything though.  Will he still be Web-Harfer
when the rule comes back, or will someone need to be appointed to the post
again 9especially interesting as I believe /dev/joe said he was going to
have to give up his offices sometime this summer and go on vacation)?

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Simple.

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> Whilst wand'ring through the dimpled fields
> Where golfers play their sordid game
> I spied a tiny match-a-box
> Which bore the insect Phoebe's name
> And she (the shame!) ask me for tips
> On passing time from slip to fall
> And thus spake Alfonse, clear and true
> "The Earth is shaped ROUND - like a ball."
> 
> Al
> 6.16.97
> 
> 

Hrm.  I hope this wasn't supposed to be some wisdom from Phoebe.  If so,
I'm going to have to call a hearing as to it's veracity.  In either case,
I am calling for a Witchunt against that heathen Alfonse (or You can call
me Al, I forget exactly what he goes by now a days).

                             - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:14:08 -0400
From: jordan james <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Treasures Found

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A9A.3D019F40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=20

O great mentor! Anytime I send email from the acka. Main page whether it =
be to the registrar the speaker or any link from that page it tells me =
my mail could not be sent. Yet one rfc I posted last week did reach some =
players, I can't tell whether my mail is reaching or not, can u =
enlighten me?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A9A.3D019F40
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A9A.3D019F40--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:29:44 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Witchhunt 

>Jun 15 20:34 EDT: -10 Mr. Lunatic Fringe : BURN THE WITCH!

And so I join /dev/joe in the afterlife.

Mr. Lunatic Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:34:41 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC) 

>Malenkai has appealed CFCJ 135 to the Supreme Court.
>
>Malenkai's Appeal Reasoning:
>
>I am appealing the penalty, not the verdict, although, due to the
>nit-picking nature of the crime in question, the Court is free to
>find INVALID as was done on a similar nit-picking case in CFJ 281.
>
>First of all, one nit-picking crime is being used to "punish" a
>scam that was completely legal, and performed as described in the
>rules.  I think we set a bad precedent to use pedantic crimes to
>punish rule-following behaviour.  Lets face it, everyone breaks the
>rules in minor ways all the time.  We don't want to, but it happens.
>Scams are good for Acka -- they encourage well-written rules.  This
>CFCJ and penalty are not the solution to encourage well-written
>rules.  I could argue that Acka's ruleset is *healthier* due to scamming;
>do not discourage it.
>
>Secondly, lets look at my financial history.  Probably over A$1000
>donated to Acka in the form of Treasure hunts, to provide incentive to
>find alternate winning conditions, develop and participate in sub-games,
>and general harf, including the RoJ treasure worth over A$600 and a
>possible win for everyone but myself.  When I did those things, why
>wasn't anyone calling a CFJ demanding that large sums of money be
>*given* to me.  'Oh my god, Malenkai just created a Treasure worth A$700,
>lets throw money *at* him'.  Instead, something a bit more than a typo,
>and I get hit with a fine of more than most players even start with,
>and considerably more than I have.  If this unjust, unfair, insultingly
>ridiculous penalty sticks, I will no longer be able to do that part of
>the game for Acka.  What does Acka think I'm gonna do with the scammed
>money anyway?
>
>Finally, its been said publically that the CFCJ was in questionable
>taste.  I'm not gonna argue that point here, but I was suprised when
>it was not retracted.  A similar case occured with me on CFCJ 102
>(athough the scam in question broke the rules, unlike this one), and
>I had the grace to retract the CFCJ, learning the philosophy of the
>first point.  Perhaps Acka can do the same here.
>
>I am already going lose 25 points on the frivilous appeal (much more
>than the standard penalties for real crimes), I ask the Court for
>a prompt verdict and a DEDUCTION of 0 points.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:38:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC) 

>First of all, one nit-picking crime is being used to "punish" a
>scam that was completely legal, and performed as described in the
>rules.  I think we set a bad precedent to use pedantic crimes to
>punish rule-following behaviour.  Lets face it, everyone breaks the
>rules in minor ways all the time.  We don't want to, but it happens.
>Scams are good for Acka -- they encourage well-written rules.  This
>CFCJ and penalty are not the solution to encourage well-written
>rules.  I could argue that Acka's ruleset is *healthier* due to scamming;
>do not discourage it.

But that is not what this is about.  This penalty is about FUN and HARF and
all thgat good stuff.  This is role playing, justice Ackanomic style.  Who
ever said the punishment had to fit the crime?  Who said a crime had to be
committed to exact just?  Who said we should bring RICO cases to Ackanomic?

What malenkai says may be true.  Its a technicality, and wee alll have
them, but the spirit of the thing is what counts.  We don't have a chair to
send him to, so lets fine the hell out of him.

I encourage the SC to uphold Judge Bascule (The original justice (with
malenkai) it might be noted)'s verdict.  If anything, the penalty should be
upped :) Remember, it's just a game.

Mr. Lunatic Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:48:12 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Vacation 

Joon went on vacation on  Thu, 22 May 1997 11:38:00 -0700.  She is not
removed from the game.

Mr. Lunatic Fringe.

Registrar

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:46:53 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens 

>Mr. Lunatic Fringe, while *still* looking for his lost hat, as
>found the Magic Potato this time, and has the privelege of playing
>Beldin's Tailor.

YES!!! I've always wanted to be beldins tailor!  But what is this lost hat
business?  The hat that never was?

>Aliens:
>
>2003
> 407 <-- "Web-Harfer"

Hmmm.

>I Kyrcek will be chosen if no one volunteers after the volunteer period
>ends.
>
>Malenkai
>Speaker

I'll volunteer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:15:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC)

On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, Phil Ackley wrote:

> >First of all, one nit-picking crime is being used to "punish" a
> >scam that was completely legal, and performed as described in the
> >rules.  I think we set a bad precedent to use pedantic crimes to
> >punish rule-following behaviour.  Lets face it, everyone breaks the
> >rules in minor ways all the time.  We don't want to, but it happens.
> >Scams are good for Acka -- they encourage well-written rules.  This
> >CFCJ and penalty are not the solution to encourage well-written
> >rules.  I could argue that Acka's ruleset is *healthier* due to scamming;
> >do not discourage it.
> 
> 
> But that is not what this is about.  This penalty is about FUN and HARF and
> all thgat good stuff.  This is role playing, justice Ackanomic style.  Who
> ever said the punishment had to fit the crime?  Who said a crime had to be
> committed to exact just?  Who said we should bring RICO cases to Ackanomic?
> 
> What malenkai says may be true.  Its a technicality, and wee alll have
> them, but the spirit of the thing is what counts.  We don't have a chair to
> send him to, so lets fine the hell out of him.
> 
> I encourage the SC to uphold Judge Bascule (The original justice (with
> malenkai) it might be noted)'s verdict.  If anything, the penalty should be
> upped :) Remember, it's just a game.

I don't see anything particularly fun about this penalty, though.  It
certainly ruins a lot of fun for Malenkai, of that we can be certain.  it
does nothing, so far as I can see, to help anyone else have a good time
though, nor do I think it's very funny in and of itself.  A penalty of
exactly as much sa he got scamming would have been funny, but excessive,
and I probably would have thought it appropriate (in a twisted, Acka, it's
just a game, sort of way).  Saying that Malenkai should just grin and bear
it because it is just a game is silly though.  Would you, if you were
being sent into debt over something like this?  Would anyone?  
 
> 
> Mr. Lunatic Fringe
> 

                                  - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:19:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

> >Mr. Lunatic Fringe, while *still* looking for his lost hat, as
> >found the Magic Potato this time, and has the privelege of playing
> >Beldin's Tailor.
> 
> YES!!! I've always wanted to be beldins tailor!

Do you have plans for your alterations, or could I interest you in my
Tailor Contract offer(text available on request)?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Elvis Costello:Almost Blue
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
This tagline refers to every tagline that does not refer to itself.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:30:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

> > Aliens:
> > 
> > 2003
> >  407 <-- "Web-Harfer"
> 
> OK, I'll bite.  What happens now?  I hope that /dev/joe will continue on
> in an unofficial capacity for the week, and assume this is possible.  he's
> obviously not required to do anything though.  Will he still be Web-Harfer
> when the rule comes back, or will someone need to be appointed to the post
> again 9especially interesting as I believe /dev/joe said he was going to
> have to give up his offices sometime this summer and go on vacation)?

Well, I imagine the abduction of an Office rule means that at the very
least the Privileges are not to be gained(so /dev/joe couldn't set loose
the Spelling Bee, or anything), and certainly the holder of that Office
(which is now just a named entity with no visible characteristics)has no
official Duty to perform the Office.  (Actually, the Spelling Bee stuff may
be in a separate rule that may or may not specify the Web-Harfer
specifically; I can't remember.)

And since I have amply volunteered to take over Web-Harfing(and it
seems more and more likely I will still be around then), this week may
indeed be a good time to make the transition, if such is possible.  Though
something more gradual might be in order as well.  :-)

But I don't think /dev/joe will lose the Office, since, as I said, it's
still a named entity that he has ownership of, or whatever the equivalent
is for Offices.  I imagine that nobody else could create a "Web-Harfer"
entity for themselves.  And the one /dev/joe's got isn't tradeable, either.
:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Bruce Springsteen:Tunnel of Love
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
Her thighs draw eyes as they arise in scission...  --filippi

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:33:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fat Lady

> I have decided to create some trinkets.

> #trinket ThinMan: 500: Gold Ingot
> #trinket ThinMan: 400: ThinMan's Moneybag
> #trinket ThinMan: 300: Bound Rules Manuscript
> #trinket ThinMan: 200: Instant Shelter

You realize, of course, that if the 20% tax went through on Saturday
you won't have had enough money to create all of these.  I think, in
fact, that you'll only have had A$1196, so only the first two trinkets
will be created...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Bruce Springsteen:Tunnel of Love
Current Book--Jo Clayton:The Snares of Ibex
Like riding a bumper car through a dictionary whose definitions are askew.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:56:23 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC)

>> We don't have a chair to send him to, so lets fine the hell out of him.

Gee, pleasant sentiment.  I hope my writing doesn't come across like
that in this forum.

> I don't see anything particularly fun about this penalty, though.  It
> certainly ruins a lot of fun for Malenkai, of that we can be certain. 

Vynd is right, and I appreciate the sentiment.  Rather than waste alot
of further bandwidth on this that most people do not want to deal with,
I have replied to this thread on the web at 
http://www.itw.com/~malenkai/ackabwg.txt.  Don't worry, there are no
treasure clues here, so unless you *enjoy* slogging through this gizz,
don't bother.  I certainly wouldn't, I wrote it to get rid of some of
my own demons.  

I also apologize to Bascule, one of my best friends in this game, for
any offense taken due to the wording of my appeal.  Come back man :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:45:20 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC) 

>I don't see anything particularly fun about this penalty, though.  It
>certainly ruins a lot of fun for Malenkai, of that we can be certain.  it
>does nothing, so far as I can see, to help anyone else have a good time
>though, nor do I think it's very funny in and of itself.  A penalty of
>exactly as much sa he got scamming would have been funny, but excessive,
>and I probably would have thought it appropriate (in a twisted, Acka, it's
>just a game, sort of way).  Saying that Malenkai should just grin and bear
>it because it is just a game is silly though.  Would you, if you were
>being sent into debt over something like this?  Would anyone?
>

UI really wouldn't mind, because in my mind Ackanomoney doesn't matter, nor
does anything else.  If you have it, play with it.  If you don't have it,
figure out a way to get it.  I could yell and scream and claim that when
Malenkai wrote his proposal for enlightenment it took the fun away from the
game for me because I could nnever be enlightened and thus lost out on
certain privlidges, but I didn't.  I just learned to have fun being burned
as a witch.  I would personally be amused if someone fined me A$1500 for
chewing the gumball on the wrong day or something, especially if I didn't
have the money.  Just one more thing you know.  But then of course, thats
why they call me...

Mr. Lunatic Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:45:59 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens 

>
>Do you have plans for your alterations, or could I interest you in my
>Tailor Contract offer(text available on request)?
>

I don't have plans yet, and may or may not be intertested.  I have to take
a look at the rule and decide.

Mr. L

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:49:34 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 135 Appeal (SC) 

>>> We don't have a chair to send him to, so lets fine the hell out of him.
>
>Gee, pleasant sentiment.  I hope my writing doesn't come across like
>that in this forum.

I'm sorry.  There should be a smiley or something there. I didn't mean that
to sound offensive.

Mr. L. Fringe

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #143
*******************************